Vikings At the Bye: The Negatives Outweigh the Positives
by Christopher Gates on Oct 20, 2008 7:57 AM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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PrintYep. . .that pretty much says it all. A season that started with so much promise now teeters on the brink after seven games with the Beloved Purple going into the bye week. No, the season's not over by any stretch, but there are a lot of things that need to change if things are going to improve in the season's second half.
So what have the major lowlights been to this point? Let's go through them, as only we can.
The Special Teams? Quite Possibly the Worst in the History of the NFL
And I'm not even remotely exaggerating when I make that declaration.
In the past three weeks, the Vikings' punt teams have allowed four touchdowns. . .two returns to Reggie Bush on Monday night in New Orleans, Chris Kluwe's. . .whatever the hell that was. . .against the Bears, and Charles Gordon forgetting to get the hell away from a punt that was going to land inside the 10-yard line. The two gaffes in the Bears' game are fundamental errors. Getting away from a punt is something you learn in high school. . .you can't be doing that crap in the National Football League.
As far as Kluwe, after the hissy fit thrown by Brad Childress after the New Orleans game and bringing in four different punters to "try out," I wonder if he just hasn't completely screwed Kluwe's psyche all to hell at this point. Kluwe was, for whatever reason, scared to death of an injured and ineffective Devin Hester, and didn't even catch the snap before he tried to punt it away. Whatever the reason, it's simply inexcusable.
The kickoff coverage team is awful as well. Three times in the first half against the Bears yesterday, we attempted to pooch or squib the ball to the Bears in an attempt to avoid Hester. The Bears started those drives at the 46, 48, and 41-yard lines. You know what that means? That in each of those situations, we would have been better off telling Ryan Longwell to just kick the ball out of bounds. That way, the Bears would have only gotten the ball at the 40.
I've never been a fan of "avoiding" returners on special teams. Discipline on special teams will stop pretty much any returner, whether it's Devin Hester or Reggie Bush or anybody else. Unfortunately, the Vikings are last in the NFL in pretty much every major special teams category, and they have absolutely no discipline in any phase of their special teams play. I don't know if it's on the players or on the coach, but the Vikings' special teams have been atrocious for a long time. Something needs to be done.
Our Quarterback of the Future? Not On This Roster Anywhere
Gus Frerotte showed on Sunday why he's been a backup for the majority of his NFL career. Yes, one of his four interceptions was tipped, but the other three were simply awful, inexcusable passes. Yes, the offense has looked "better" since Frerotte took over, but that's more of an indictment of how the "kick ass offense" looked before Frerotte than it does about how it looks with him at the helm.
Tarvaris Jackson is done in Minnesota, which is sad, because we're never going to know how he could have done with an actual football coach in a real, NFL offensive system. It's obvious that the current coaching staff has no confidence in him any more at this point, and when they get fired at the end of this season, it's unlikely that the new regime is going to hold on to him. Most coaches want to bring in "their guy" when they take over a team, and whoever is coaching the Vikings in 2009 will likely be no exception.
Could John David Booty be the answer? Not unless he somehow has a light bulb go on during the upcoming off-season and looks significantly less lost than he did during the 2008 pre-season. The guy's got talent. . .you don't get to start at quarterback for USC if you don't. . .but we have to see how that talent will translate to the NFL.
This situation is made infintely more frustrating by the fact that the Vikings have, bar none, the most talented team in this division if you take the other 21 positions into account. The only. . .ONLY. . .difference is that Green Bay and Chicago are getting productive play from their quarterbacks, while we've gotten next to nothing from ours for seven weeks. The fact that we're still only a game out of the division race given our quarterback situation, our special teams, and our coaching staff is a direct testament to the talent and abilities of the rest of this roster.
The Coaching Staff? They All Need to Go, and Sooner Rather Than Later
I'm not just limiting this one to Brad Childress. Everybody needs to be gone. Childress? Gone. Darrell Bevell? Gone. Leslie Frazier? Gone. Paul Ferraro? Gone.
Sometimes, I think that Leslie Frazier would make a fine head coach if we were to fire Brad Childress. . .and then there's times like yesterday that makes me think I should personally drug test myself for believing such things. For example, on Chicago's last touchdown, a 5-yard hitch that Marty Booker turned into a 51-yard touchdown, the closest man to Booker in coverage was. . .Jared Allen?
Now, I understand the concept of a zone blitz and all that, and I understand that such things will be called on occasion. However, let me question the timing of this one. In a situation where we're down by one score, we haven't stopped the opposing offense all day, and we need to stop them on one particular drive. . .we're not paying Jared Allen $73 million to cover Marty Freaking Booker. We're paying him to attempt to separate Kyle Orton's head from his shoulders.
I've been over and over my problems with the "Kick Ass Offense," and I touched on the atrocity that is our special teams earlier in the post. But I thought I'd highlight the defense because Frazier seems to get a free pass more often than not. . .however, when you consider all of the talent this defense has on it and then watch them give up 48 points yesterday to the Bears, one could reasonably draw the conclusion that Frazier might be doing the worst coaching job of all. At least the offense has the excuse of having garbage at quarterback to fall back on. The Vikings have talent at all three levels of the defense. . .there's no excuse for the kind of crap we saw yesterday.
There will be more throughout the week, but that's all the righteous indignation I can muster for this morning. Just keep telling yourselves "We're only 3-4, and we're only one game out." It's been working for me, for the most part. We'll see you back here later today, folks!
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I agree with ditching the coaching staff...
…but how about getting each coach to take a player who they coach with them?
Bevell can drag Ryan Cook’s penalty ridden ass with him (Am I the only one who notices that its always #62 getting called for the yellow hanky, killing a potential huge offensive play?). Frazier can take Cedric Griffin along. Oh, and don’t worry about trying to find his awesome coverage ability to bring with you, he seemed to have lost that after his rookie season. And we can kick Ferraro and Kluwe out together…and it’d probably be the best punt that the Vikings have had all year. As for Childress? All I ask is that he take his “kick ass” offensive playbook with him. I don’t want that thing anywhere near our next coaches, players, fans, mascots, cheerleaders, concession staff….
Anyone think that giving up their 2008 draft to get Jared Allen may be having an adverse effect on this team’s 2008 special teams play? Most skill position rookies cut their teeth on special teams. And of course the Vikings gave up their 1st and 2 3rds. Of their remaining picks, they took Johnson, but also a QB, DT, and a Center. Not exactly many gunners to be found there. And their last pick, WR Johnson, is on the practice squad, I believe.
I guess what I’m saying is there isn’t exactly a lot of young talent there this year to put out there on coverage, and maybe it’s showing. Their coverage has been poor all year, even before Reggie Bush. And now the team’s not even confident that they can kick it deep at all.
As for QB. Who knows? I know they don’t play much defense in the Big 12, but the QBs in that conference are all posting crazy good numbers. Here’s hoping a few of the underclassmen declare… Otherwise, should Childress and Co. be retained and they repeat their stubborn Tarvaris or Bust strategy, I hope they at least sign a vet who has a glimmer of starting potential. David Carr or Byron Leftwich or somebody.
I hear we offered a first in ‘09 and ’10 for Quinn. . . and got turned down. That’s alot for a guy who hasn’t played in an actual game, but it just shows how desperate we are for a QB of the future. This was Chicago’s problem last season, and part of why they finished 7-9. Look at them now under Orton. They scored 34 points on offense yesterday. That’s pretty damn good.
And no, I don’t think Booty is the answer. I didn’t even see his ever-heralded accuracy in the pre-season, unless he meant for those passes to go into the hands of the defensive backs.
If that's true...
that offer for Quinn, then I’m not sure who that reflects more poorly on: The Vikings for offering that much, or the Browns for turning it down. Quinn is simply an overrated prospect.
That’s kind of my concern, though. That the Vikes will reach a point of desperation for a QB that they “Hershel” the entire situation.
Spiking the Vikings at the QB Position
In the pre-season and earlier, every team out there knew that the main piece the Vikings needed to be solid in order to assure a Super Bowl run, if not victory, based on the sheer weight of talent, was a solid quarterback. I read more than one non-Viking coach make that assessment, and they weren’t happy about it. The consensus seemed to be, ‘make sure the Vikes DO NOT get a premier quarterback, and that’s what happened.
Don’t expect any other team to be cooperative in this regard as the season continues, or in the off-season. They have no cause to want to create a Minnesota powerhouse by handing the Vikings a true franchise-level quarterback.
It could be much worse...
I know the Vikings have been like a second family to most of us – albeit a seriously dysfunctional family at times – but things aren’t nearly as bad as some fans are making them out to be.
Case in point: The Minnesota Vikings aren’t as awful as -
- St Louis (be glad that you aren’t a Dallas fan today).
- Detroit (0-6: scoring 97 points this season to date – awful)
- Seattle (if you thought the Vikings offense sucks, just take a look at their numbers).
- Kansas City (just be glad that we don’t have Herm Edwards as our coach).
Another case in point – our Minnesota Vikings have outscored these teams this season (in total scoring, descending order – lowest being worst team ever):
- New York Jets
- Tennessee Titans
- Buffalo Bills
- Carolina Panthers
- Pittsburgh Steelers
- Houston Texans
- Washington Redskins
- Atlanta Falcons
- Indianapolis Colts
- Jacksonville Jaguars
- Miami Dolphins
- Seattle Seahawks
- Baltimore Ravens
- Cincinnatti Bengals
- Detroit Lions
- Oakland Raiders
- St. Louis Rams
- Cleveland Browns
- New England Patriots
- Kansas City Chiefs
Another point – guess who the #1 scoring team in the NFL currently is?
- Chicago Bears – followed by
- Green Bay Packers
Another point:
- The Vikings are currently the 8th ranked best defense in the NFL
And to start the dissemination of yesterday’s game, one thing right off the bat:
- 5 turnovers would kill any team.
We’re currently dead-even (0) on total turnovers. The fact that we cough up the ball at the worst times probably makes them sting much more – but if you can imagine how it is from the other side of the ball (the New Orleans game for example) – again, turnovers come at the weirdest times – not just for us.
- Our special teams play needs to improve vastly.
It seems like every week we give the other team 10-14 points just from special teams mistakes. Kicking to Reggie Bush/Devon Hester is a mistake anytime, but when you let their guys just slide by and get into our end of the field (if not take it to the house), you’re setting up our defense to bear the burden and make us for that mistake, and the offenses we’ve faced so far have been good enough to make us pay for that mistake time and time again.
- We need to play games more loose.
It seems to me like our D-Line can handle whatever is thrown at them in the way of run plays, and still get enough pressure on the opposing QB to either force a scramble or a pass. It also seems like we’re setting up our secondary too close to the line of scrimmage to defend the pass. We should probably loosen up the coverage a bit to force the run more, since we’re almost always defending the run anyway… Or even just more MLB blitzes that force throws to the outside (giving them less field to work with while forcing the pass or scramble).
- I like Gus Frerotte, but we need (someone like) Tom Brady.
It’s pretty straightforward. Gus Frerotte is keeping us in most of these games, but yesterday his INT’s killed us. We need someone who is even more accurate, especially on deep passes and passes across the middle.
Also, purely speculation – I think it’s interesting that Childress has based his offense around a scrambling QB (Jackson) – but a pocket QB (Frerotte) is putting up bigger numbers. I’m sure experience has alot to do with this, but I still find it to be an interesting comparison, and something to think about.
- We can’t continue to rely on luck (I’m looking at you Bevell).
The fact that we have accumulated 13 first downs this season purely from penalties committed by the other team is incredible. IDEALLY, these first down would be made by our players making plays – but I’ll take what we can get until we get rid of Bevell.
Great points here.
Gus’ turnover were what ultimately doomed us.
There are multiple other problem areas though, as you very clearly point out.
I am not Childress’ biggest fan, well let me rephrase that, I think the dude is not capable of coaching very well, yet. Perhaps he will be able to run is KAO and mold some other young QB but I think he has run his course with our franchise, regardless of the way the season goes.
He isn’t a very good judge of talent to be honest. He finally figured out how to run with Peterson during the later part of last season and even now he just simply doesn’t know how to either him or Taylor as decoys. Yes he did it with a goal line formation on the 1 or 2 but come on, how about doing it during the game when we can break a big one?
Having said that, I thought that Childress actually didn’t do that bad of a job yesterday, he wasn’t as predictable which makes me pleasently surprised. BUT… there were the obvious questionable calls, such as going for a run on 3rd and long with Taylor, which meant we were just accepting a tie game again with the FG.
I also enjoyed watching him go for it on 4th a couple of times, its only taken what about 2.5 years to start to learn situational downs?
I looked up in the thesaurus the possible words for “horrible”, here is what comes up…"appalling, awful, dreadful, fearful, frightful, ghastly, horrendous, horrible, shocking " and everyone of them sums up how I feel about our special teams.
First off, what was Gordon doing? I don’t really want to go over it again but seriously that was stupid, fundamental mistake. Second, why is he even back there to begin with?
Our kicking needs to be sorted out ASAP, I don’t know what is going on but come on dude, catch the ball, what the hell happened?
It hasn’t been one game, it has been the entire year that our special teams had been, well, crap.
Our divison actually isn’t getting as much credit as it deserves. I believe that we have 3 good teams and then the Lions. We play the NFC South which also isn’t getting as much credit as it deserves. I watched the Bucs game yesterday, while flipping between the rays also, btw GO RAYS!!! but anyways I believe that both have the capability of beating the NFC East for the Superbowl. We could have a shot but lets be realistic, we aren’t probably going to win the SB, but we can make the playoffs and hope.
Oddly enough...
I also thought Chilly didn’t call a bad game.
I still think it’s kind of crazy that we went 3 of 4 on 4th Downs. So nobody can say Chilly wasn’t trying – he was.
Special teams are a nightmare right now though – not sure why Charles Gordon was back there, but then I’m not sure why Gus Frerotte / Booty / Winfield / etc weren’t back there either. Maybe Pat Williams should field a punt once in a while – he’s got decent hands and would be hard to tackle… Hey, why not – we’re already rotating a cast of characters – throw him in, fuck it!
And I hate to bring it up (agree with Childress), but maybe it is time for Kluwe to hit the road…
Seems to me that he already committed his two mistakes of the year in the New Orleans game, and that miffed punt was numero tres. And it just kills me, the replay of the miffed punt, he actually tried to kick the ball away as he was being swarmed. But the ball was already on the ground, so he just tried to soccer kick it – and who knows what would’ve happened had he succeeded in doing so…
So…
Two weeks to stew over this one. Two long weeks.
But I also do agree – we’ve had a pretty tough schedule so far, and our division is definitely one of the better ones, which lessens the fact that we lost by one TD to a team that has outscored the entire NFL this season. Not only that, but we put up a ton of points against them even when we committed numerous gaffes and blunders.
Also...
When is Madieu Williams supposed to suit up?
Ever?
I’d like to see the guy play, at least once.
P.S.
Anyone enjoy watching Brad Johnson go down in flames? Felt like 2 years ago, all over again, and it made me smile that someone else gets to be in that position. :)
Some things I have noticed
Since I have Sunday Ticket (otherwise I would be subject to watching the Seattle SuckHawks) I watch every Vikes game and have noticed some things…
- What happened to our ball hawking secondary? Is Darren Sharper finished? Why can’t we get any picks? Yesterday Orton was dropping back and throwing very quick, how’s about JUMPING SOME ROUTES??? If we are not stopping them ANYWAY why not take a gamble? We are TERRIBLE on pass D, why haven’t we done any better this year?
- I was glad to see the draw plays, but is Childress/Bevell clueless about Offensive play calling? We have the BEST RB IN THE LEAGUE…draws, screens AND I was thinking, EVERYONE keys on AP, why not have him rollout and throw to berrian? At least TRY it.
- Also I heard that our staff said Jared Allen is WAY over doing their expectations…REALLY? What were your expectations then?? We got him to pressure and SACK the qb…tired of hearing excuses for why we don’t have more pressure, what gives?
Defense did okay. Offense did great minus Gus's picks. 41 offensive points.
You said the Vikes defense gave up 48 points in the second to last paragraph. Huh?
They essentially gave up 27 which isn’t great but not as bad. Special teams gave up 14 and the QB gave up 7 with an INT on the 6 yd line and even then our defense stopped them on 4th and goal if not for the questionable interference call. Not to mention the fact that our D had to contend with the horribly good field position our Special Teams gave the Bears on almost every kickoff.
And our offense, even with 4 INTs put 41 points on the board. No short fields or gimmes.
Drives of 67,70,42,68,64,58, and 75 yards. When was the last time the Viking offense scored 41 points with no turnovers to help them out? That is some impressive offensive production. 41 points!!!! Gus needs Ritalin or something to keep him focused 100% of the time. His picks are horrible like his mind is somewhere else.
If special teams had just played average with no foul ups, Vikings win easily.
by lifelong_mustbemasochistic_Vikesfan on Oct 20, 2008 2:13 PM CDT reply actions
True
Luckily, my gut feeling to go with him in FF this week paid off (think he got 12 or 13 points).
It’s great that he’s actually getting some action, and able to hold onto the ball. Maybe his jitters finally wore off, who knows…
Is it over yet?
I do not see many Viking games living in Texas. I did not see the Bears game yesterday but I sadly watched updates as the Bears score continued to increase as the Vikes were trying to catch up. After reading about the game it is clear that Childress and his staff will not turn this team around this year.
One element of a winning team is attitude and Childress, Bevell and Frazier have not instilled a winning attitude in this team.
Childress has often spoken about discipline and professionalism but this team displays none of those characteristics. Penalties, turnovers and other miscues are the product of a lack of focus, a lack of mental toughness and poor discipline. The players are under-achieving and the coaching staff appears to have no clue as to how to change the personality of the team.
A bye week will not cure the character of this team. The Vikings need the leadership of a Bud Grant or early Dennis Green. Childress and his staff need to be fired immediately after the end of this season and a new coaching staff needs to be hired that can trade for a quality quarterback and instill a sense of pride and a winning attitude in the team. The Vikings are missing leadership.
My one consolation is the current plight of the Cowboys. Jerry Jones is reaping what he has sown in signing characters such as Owens and Pacman Jones.
Lucky you ...
Because I had the distinct pleasure of watching the loss in a sports bar in Chicago. It was much worse than the score indicated. The most frustrating part was that the Viking were clearly the more talented team (especially given all the injuries in the Bears secondary) and should have won the game. But down 17 points, with 10 or so minutes left, the Vikings were huddling up and using all of the snap clock. There was absolutely no sense of urgency. Meanwhile, Kyle Orton, who is about 40 years younger than Frerotte, was in and out of the no-huddle all game long. It is painfully obvious that the team is poorly coached at all phases of the game. Watching the game, I fantasized about Ziggy coming down from a press box and firing Childress and his staff in the middle of the game. I was so happy, I almost missed an interception. As for special teams, we need to play some of the starters to have some hope of tackling or blocking someone.
by jayinchicago on Oct 20, 2008 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I’ve gotta say the Vikes beat themselves, Chicago was good but you all make good points, I think for the remaining season, as I’ve said before, support and maybe the tide will turn.
But special teams, (where is the yuck emoticon when it is needed) someone isn’t far off in saying that we are close to the worst in the history of the NFL, making the returners look like hall of famers, some of them are good, like Bush but not that good…just caught asleep.
Too many things gone wrong...
…but somehow were’re 3-4 in a rough division. Everyone wants to moan and groan now but sticking with T-Jack was the biggest mistake in the off season. No wonder we have no future QB and have to rely on GUS. I do like Gus, but 4 ints will kill any team!!! Stability is the key and we don’t have it. And if we did it’s hidden deep within the walls. I’m not counting the vikes out but I think we need to take a break, practice hard and kick the hell out of houston. If anything we should be angry after losing to division rivals in a close game. Let’s take it out of the Texans.
Kluwe, at least try and not get fired this season. Your killing me dude. Handle the snap and kick the ball for christ sake.
Laughing my ass off!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I DO agree with everything that you’ve said, Gonzo, but they way you state it sometimes just cracks me up!!!! You speak from my heart some days, I swear! LOL
For instance, when you wrote, “Chris Kluwe’s. . .whatever the hell that was. . .against the Bears”, I friggin’ lost it and almost fell out of my chair after reading that!!!
We’re only a game out, and this whole division is up for grabs, and the Vikes have a great chance of taking the division for three main reasons, none of which has anything to do with the existing talent on our team.
1) Don’t worry, Kyle Orton will return to earth as the QB that once made Rex Grossman the starter: MARK MY WORDS ON THAT ONE
2) “Glass Jaw” Rodgers will sustain another injury soon, and probably one that will sideline him long enough for the Packers to fall out of contention for the division title.
3) Detroit who?!?!?!
Fine, my predictions seem to be a slight (?) stretch, but I’m stickin’ to it!
The whole kit, caboodle, and division
Anyone remember when the Black and Blue Division was FEARED?
Yeah, that’s what I thought… the whole division is beset with mediocre coaches who coach for lucky breaks and prayers instead of preparation and dominance and players who have to resign themselves to playing on mediocre teams. Barry Sanders, move over, AP is taking your spot.
by liveforadrenaline on Oct 22, 2008 5:23 PM CDT reply actions
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