Minnesota Vikings Become First Team in NFL History to Lose During Bye Week
by Gonzo on Oct 26, 2008 1:53 PM CDT
in Vikings
30 comments
Earlier on in the week, a story broke about members of the New Orleans Saints, specifically RB Deuce McAlister, DE Will Smith, and DE Charles Grant, tested positive for a diuretic and were facing four-game suspensions as a result. There were also reports that numerous other players had tested positive for the same diuretic and were facing suspensions as well.
Well. . .Fox Sports' Jay Glazer has reported that among those "numerous other players" were Pat and Kevin Williams.
Not Pat OR Kevin Williams. . .Pat AND Kevin Williams.
Wonderful.
Now, apparently, neither of the Williams' boys have had their appeals heard by the league yet and, with that being the case, the fact that their names are out there already represents "the most egregious violation of the NFL steroids policy," according to David Cornwell, who has been asked to represent many of the players involved in this incident in the appeal process. I would tend to agree. Cornwell's assertion that the only reason to leak this sort of information would be to harm the individuals involved and to tip the scales of justice is also, in my opinion, the correct one. Until all of the appeals were heard and the official punishments were meted out, anyone that had this information should have kept their mouths closed.
It's also quite pathetic that, if these suspensions are upheld, Pat and Kevin Williams will now be placed in the same category as real dopers like Shawne Merriman and Rodney HGHarrison. . .you know, guys that took a drug that actually enhances performance. If I thought for a minute that either Pat or Kevin Williams was actually taking steroids to enhance performance, it would be one thing. . .if that was (or even if that is) the case, they should both be punished.
But, come on. . .when you look at Pat Williams, do you immediately think "yeah, that guy's a roid monster?" Honestly, now. . .this is garbage. A couple of other names that have been leaked are Falcons' defensive tackle Grady Jackson (who is on the field today for Atlanta) and Texans' long snapper Bryan Pittman.
From a football standpoint, if the Vikings lose Pat and Kevin Williams for four games, then it's time to start looking for 2009, because I don't see us beating anybody with those two out of the lineup.
I don't even know what the hell else to say at this point, other than this is a bunch of crap and it's going to screw our entire season. Discuss it here. I might be back with more later if something else develops.
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They were either covering up steriod use
or using a banned substance to keep their weight down.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
144 yards per game
6.5 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Oct 26, 2008 2:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It is a diet pill
If I remember correctly, both players have weight clauses in their contracts. They may have be using the water pills to make weight. I wonder if anybody on the Vikings staff knew about the pills or even suggested them or is this something that they shared amongst themselves and at least a dozen [and growing] other players in the league.
It is one thing to use them to mask steroid use and another for what they are intended. Sort of like cold and allergy medicines being used to make meth or as they were intended to stop the sniffles.
I just wonder if they are suspended, if Childress gets to use this as an excuse to be retained. If anything, maybe Zygi will hold it against him for not living up to what he promised in his “culture of accountability”. Yeah right…
It may take a village to raise a child, but it takes a Viking to raze a village.
by Luft Krigare on Oct 26, 2008 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Water Pills?
According to WCCO Pat and Kevin tested positive for “water pills” aka Bumetanide which is NOT a steroid but a diuretic. I have no idea why they would be taking these pills since they are mainly only abused by body builders to look “cut.” That’s not a word I would consider synonymous with Pat Williams. The only advantage I could see from taking these is making yourself a few pounds lighter in terms of water weight for game day. But I would be afraid of dehydration of that were the case.
It sounds really stupid that they would be taking these pills and the rules against them are probably more a safety precaution for the players, like the ephedrine ban. But like you said it’s not like they were taking roids, like you said Gonzo, and it’s a shame they’re being put into that category.
Fire Childress!
by dwarg on Oct 26, 2008 2:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
not for game day, for weigh ins
so they don’t get fined for being over the weight they are suppose to be at
Shonn Greene for Heisman
144 yards per game
6.5 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Oct 26, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is, the Bumetanide is often used to mask steroids
That’s why it’s banned to begin with, isnt it?
May the wind be always at your back, and may your placekicker have icewater in his veins.
by juperee on Oct 26, 2008 2:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yep so even if they weren't using it for that
it’s a suspension and deservedly so. You can’t tell what the intent was for a player to use a banned substance.
The suspention is totally justified, but a bit of separation in fans mind between them and guys that tested positive for actual performance enhancers is totally fine.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
144 yards per game
6.5 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Oct 26, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats the Exact Reason why The NFL is Clomping Down on Guys Like the Williams boys and McCallister
is because your correct, Bumetanide is used to Mask Steroids, If it wasnt this wouldnt be a big deal. rough situation hopefully they can appeal this and get it down to a game or two.
by Tony_O on Oct 26, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im sick to my stomach….
V-I-K-I-N-G-S! Skol Vikings, Let's Go!!
by TheViking83 on Oct 26, 2008 6:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Testing 123, testing 123
Do they suspend coaches for taking these things?
Quick, someone slip some into Childresses food!
by liveforadrenaline on Oct 26, 2008 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I love
Minnesota Vikings Become First Team in NFL History to Lose During Bye WeekI love the headline for this story.
But, if this is true, it stinks
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on Oct 26, 2008 8:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Confidence helps you win the game...
Yes, those were actually the unuttered lyrics of the old NFL TV theme music during ancient times. Now, at the first sign of trouble emerging from the TV set, fans dispair. How about some old fashioned faith in Fred and Letroy? Is it just the fault of new digital TVs or is it the weakness of spirit of the current fans?
Skol Vikings run up the score…
Go 90 Go!
And 98 rah!
Knock those mothers on their pants!
Zis Boom Bah!
by Elgar on Oct 26, 2008 8:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
will the real d-lineman please stand up
so let me get this straight… out with Pat and Kevin and in with otis and ellis. i dont know if this will hold . hey number 69 its now or never to earn that paycheck.
AP's record day, 296 in a single game.
by da2213viking on Oct 26, 2008 9:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think I just died.
Because I swear if this isn’t what it feels like to be in hell I’d be shocked.
In AP I trust
by FarvaForTheVikings on Oct 26, 2008 10:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Devastating
Water pills may be different then the juice, but the fact it masks ’roids makes this slightly to very disturbing. Lets let the system play out and hope for the best.
"People ask me, 'What did you think about the draft picks?' I said, 'Dude, I don't watch.' I'm still kind of bitter," Smith said. "Some guys got drafted and they ain't played football in 15 years and I'm still waiting to get drafted. I'm still waiting to hear my name." -Rod Smith
by The Heat on Oct 26, 2008 11:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It IS a Jay Glazer story, after all...
…so I’m not going to think or comment about it yet.
In other news, Tyler Thigpen looked really good against the Jets today. I imagine that he would be useful to this team over the next 2+ years, and it’s too bad that the Vikings didn’t see it that way.
by KC Viking on Oct 27, 2008 12:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Diet Pills and Tyler Thigpen
Tyler Thigpen looked like the real deal today. He looked like a leader on the field and he threw some very nice balls. He may be the KC QB for a very long time. Hard to believe that DumDum Chili valued Bollinger over Thigpen. Just another example of Chili’s poor decision making. Let’s see first Chili traded a starting DTackle for Bollinger and then he cut JT O’Sullivan to make roster room for him, later he cut Thigpen to keep Bollinger on the roster, and now all three of those players started today for other teams, and Bollinger is riding the bench in Dallas because his noodle arm is even weaker then Brad Johnsons.
That is a very high price to pay for a QB that will never start for anybody. Thanks Chili for being such a dum shat.
Too bad about the diet pills. I wonder if the “culture of accountability” contributed to the use of diet pills to lose enough weight to meet their contractual obligations? If the Vikes had left the weight clauses out of the contracts and simply handled the weight issues via coaching and playing decisions, then maybe those guys would not have pushed so hard to have made such a stupid mistake? If they knew they had training camp to help to get down to playing weight, maybe they would not of panicked and popped the pills? I can’t blame Chili for this one directly, but removing the weight clauses in all the contracts might be a good idea.
How can Zygi continue to employ a head coach who is so clearly over his head?
Zygi must have no football sense. Surely it is easy to see that Chili is not a leader of men.
by Gary Quazzo on Oct 27, 2008 1:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You guys are forgetting the games where he hasn’t looked good. I wouldn’t judge him immediately after one good game and say he’s going to be a good QB. You just can’t do that.
Anyways, I was puzzled when I read the headline, only to have that confusion turn into a “wtf” moment when I read other potential to-be-suspended players. You’ve got to be joking. Pat AND Kevin. I’m pretty sure that its a first offense, so it’ll be for four games, but goddamn. We need them these next four games. This has just not been our year unfortunately.
by Frost on Oct 27, 2008 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe this situation.
It kind of makes a guy wonder how far the whole “culture of accountability” extends when two of your best players get charged with something like this.
What will be the consequences from the Vikings coaches, etc?
I guess we’ll have to wait and see, but it doesn’t look good. I don’t hear the sound of our season being flushed down the toilet yet, but there’s definitely a hand on the flush handle.
by AustinVike on Oct 27, 2008 7:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and houston has been red hot lately
steve slaton and co are going to have a field day against that d line if they cant play
the red sox had a 9 game elimination win streak, but matt garza was too busy rocking out to tupac to notice
by RaysOfHope on Oct 27, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do realize that...
QB decisions come from more than one person, right?
And, actually, all personnel decisions come from more than the mouth and mind of Brad Childress… He’s not a king; he’s a football coach.
Even Brad Childress has a boss.
by AustinVike on Oct 27, 2008 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no more excuses...
if the Williams’ get suspended, they will do so with full knowledge that what they were taking was a banned substance….
it’s not a surprise to these guys what you can take and what you can’t take…and it falls on their shoulders…not the coaches, not the owners…
6-10 is looking more realistic by the day
by Hilton Head viking on Oct 27, 2008 7:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not so sure they knew
In August, New York Jets running back Jesse Chatman was suspended for four games for violating the league’s drug policy. He said he tested for a diuretic — “something I never even heard of” — that could be used as a masking agent. It is called bumetanide.
The Saints that were announced to fail, Will Smith, Charles Grant and Deuce McAllister along with Falcon DT Grady Jackson also for the same thing were using the weight-loss supplement Star Caps according to reports, which contained bumetanide. Star Caps is widely available at supplement and nutrition stores.
Star Caps lists its ingredients as all natural cleansers but not with a diuretic. It was confirmed through the Olympic testing lab at UCLA that star Caps contained bumetanide. Per the New York Times
Under the N.F.L.’s policy on performance-enhancing drugs, players are responsible for positive tests regardless of the supplements they take. Bumetanide has been banned by the N.F.L. since 1989, when the league began testing for performance-enhancing drugs.
So we have a precedent of a 4 game suspension so hopes and pleas of ignorance will probably fall on the deaf ears of “Roger the Just”. That is an ugly fact we will look at in the near future probably with more losses, but to say that the men knew they were taking is just a guess on your part. You do not know that, and they might not have known it especially if it wasn’t listed on the label.
It may take a village to raise a child, but it takes a Viking to raze a village.
by Luft Krigare on Oct 27, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It might be something other than bumetanide but related
According to FOX’s Josina Anderson.
“There are about six to ten [players] overall positive tests. Three to four of them are from the Saints organization alone including McAllister and Smith,” the source told her.
“Most of them tested positive for Bumetanide. The last few tested positive for another substance that works similarly,” said Anderson’s source.
But there is still know way of knowing that the Williams’ knew that they were taking banned substances unless they say so. They may have thought because it is available to you and me it is probably alright.
It may take a village to raise a child, but it takes a Viking to raze a village.
by Luft Krigare on Oct 27, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
6-10 is looking more realistic by the day
Sure is, sadly. I’ve tried to remain optimistic, but this is just another straw breaking the camel’s back.
On a plus note: The movie Better, Stronger, Faster is worth watching more than ever. Anyone that hasn’t watched it already should do so. Maybe you’ll have a different take on this situation than before.
by AustinVike on Oct 27, 2008 8:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The NFL puts out a list of approved supplements
that have passed testing to insure they don’t have banned substances. Players can avoid accidentally testing positive pretty easily.
http://www.nsf.org/business/nfl_nflpa/index.asp?program=NFLPA
Shonn Greene for Heisman
144 yards per game
6.5 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Oct 27, 2008 11:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bye Week
I was bored this bye week, but I didn’t need news like this. Whether for weight or hiding substances, these guys in the locker room know all the rules and consequenses of what is legal or banned.
I don’t know if it is egos or just plain stupidity. This team is on the verge of being very good if not great, over the next couple years. We all have a list of what needs to be done to attain this. Maybe i’ll add, “How about a middle school lecture to players about responsibility to yourself and others.” Others meaning the team, your fans and the community.
by CitrusFLViking on Oct 27, 2008 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I have to say, I love the quote at the end of this article, made by an anonymous NFL pro scout, which reads:
"Brad (Childress) is an ego guy," an NFL pro scout from a rival team told PFW. "I like him, but he’s no genius now. I’m just glad they got him and Rick Spielman at the helm.
"As long as those two guys are running the show, we’ll always have a chance to beat them."
by AustinVike on Oct 27, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honesty is the best policy.
While one of my co-workers is positive that they’re all taking steroids (along with every other player in every other sport. I’m still presuming innocence. The large group of players that got busted for this just seems so unlikely that they’re taking steroids.
So, what would I do if I was the Williams Bros?
1) Come clean. If you did take steroids, and you were using the pills to mask the drugs, come out with it now. My arguement for why can be summed up as follows: Andy Pettite vs Roger Clemens.
2) If you weren’t taking steroids, and were just taking a supplement. Say that. Say when you last took it and demand to know how long it will take for the chemical to leave your system. Then take open blood tests for the rest of the season.
3) Above all, don’t read from a script, and don’t release press releases through your agent or lawyer.
by Robert Rence on Oct 28, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, maybe
I don’t think “full disclosure” is a phrase that many players accused of taking illegal substances have heard. I can see why players don’t stand up and say “I take this and this, and have taken this too – sorry”. The NFL’s response would be “thanks for sharing, but your career is over, bye”.
I do agree with Gonzo; about the double standards in the NFL regarding performance enhancing drugs vs. illegal street drugs.
It’s a shame that:
- An NFL player arrested for cocaine, marijuana, amphetamines, etc, possession faces a fine and suspension.
- An NFL player charged with taking anything in the realm of performance enhancing drugs (anabolic steroids, dietary supplements) is treated the same way.
Seems to me the only solution is to either test every player, after every game, or not test anyone at all, because that’s the only way the game is going to be level and fair.
But Goodell’s never going to let that happen, because if a massive number of players turn out to be “juicing”, then you’d have to suspend them all – and then where would we be?
by AustinVike on Oct 28, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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