Putting An Argument To Rest - QB Edition
Some Vikings fans, including several 'Norsemen' are under the impression Gus Frerotte's record as the starting quarterback puts to rest any discussion of quarterback controversy. The only real controversy is why Tavaris Jackson wasn't given an opportunity to reclaim his position sooner, in spite of Gus Frerotte's play, despite records.
Update:
Tavaris Jackson was named as the game 15 starter since the writing of this blog post.
The arguments go (in bold):
The veteran, proven skilled at reading defenses and able to make all of the throws is inserted into the lineup to steer the ship. His presence, specifically the threat of a vertical passing game keeps the defense honest and allows success in the running game.
This is a completely subjective argument that reads more like a Nordic fairytale of mystical proportions. The valiant quarterback Viking rides in on a purple and gold horse...
The reality of the situation is much less fantastic. Before his season ending injury, Gus Frerotte was unable to take advantage of one of the leagues most dominant running games featuring the leagues top rusher.
In his 11 games started this year, Frerotte threw the ball downfield 20+ yards just 24 times, more than only four other quarterbacks (most who were more part-time that Frerotte). He threw the ball downfield 40+ yards only eight times in that same span. His propensity to find the open defender has been chronicled, having led the league in interceptions at the time he was injured. Additionally, he had been sacked 29 times. More than any other quarterback on a playoff contending team, and more per pass attempt than everyone other than Cleveland Browns quarterback Derek Anderson.
These stats are not indicative of a quarterback making the right reads or throws or decisions in the passing game. On the contrary, these numbers reflect the exact opposite. Frerotte does nothing to enhance the passing game of the Vikings offense. His immobility limits the playbook and hinders the vikings success in the short passing game.
But we're winning with Frerotte! Frerotte is 8-3 (undeserving of credit for the Det. win) since taking over the Vikings offense.
The only statistic that matters in the NFL is wins and losses! As accurate an axiom as you'll find in the NFL, and as true as 'You can't teach speed.'
Though I am as thrilled about the Vikings record as anyone else, the realist in me notes:
Frerotte has also been the beneficiary of a stout defense that has limited opposing offenses and put points on the board in key wins. And the late game (questionable) Pass Interference calls against NO Wk 5 and Det. Wk 6 allowed the Vikes to kick game winning field goals in games they likely would have lost otherwise.
If Jackson was the cause of season opening losses in GB and IND, Frerotte should be credited for the 4 Int gift wrapped victory he handed Chicago in Wk 7. A scoreless second half performance in the Wk 10 come from behind victory by TB was also sealed with a pick!
For their careers, the two have eerily comparable numbers. However, it can be said for Jackson that he is looking forward to his best days while Frerotte's better days are far behind him.
G Att-Comp Pct Att-G Yds Avg Yds-G TD/Int
23 462-268 58.0 20.1 2,970 6.4 129.1 17/17
147 3,106-1,699 54.7 21.1 21,291 6.9 144.8 114/106
Jacksons mobility allows the Vikings to run more play action, bootleg and pick up yards with his feet, and move the pocket from aggressive pass rushers.
It doesn't matter which of these bums quarterbacks the team, they both suck! The Vikings need to upgrade the quarterback position either through the draft or free agency in the off season.
I have heard all sorts of chatter about the Vikings need for a better quarterback. The most interesting of which goes something like: Quarterback X is playing good and he's a free agent after this year, the Vikes should get him.
The name most often given in this argument is New England's Matt Cassell. He's a perennial backup to Tom Brady and a free agent after this year, makes sense right?
No, almost none! The offense the Patriots run is almost the antithesis to what the Vikings roster is built for and Childress' vision. Cassell has excelled at standing seven to ten yards behind center, surveying the field and choosing one of four or five receivers in the formation.
The Vikings' roster and version of the west coast offense is built around running the football, play action and a short passing attack. Believe it or not, the Vikings employ six tight ends/ H-backs for a reason.
What has Cassell done this season to convince Vikings fans he has the skill set to be successful in this offense? That is not to say he couldn't, but most people making this argument seemingly haven't gone beyond passing attempts and touchdown totals in their evaluations. I don't think he has the same level of athleticism seen in successful West Coast quarterbacks (McNabb, Garcia, Favre), and we know what the offense looks like ran by a quarterback with limited mobility (Frerotte).
There is an argument for Childress swallowing his pride and truly giving T-Jack an honest shot at quarterbacking this team, to see what he can do with team on stride. He is a third year pro and, as the numbers above suggest, could have a long career playing in this league. Much of the criticism he's taken in my opinion is premature and/or unfair. Anyone who has closed the book on such a young player doesn't understand player development.
Childress should trust the instinct that made him trade up to get the young athlete with an explosive arm. Four touchdown games aren't common at this level, and we don't need them. Jackson can quarterback this team, whose focus is on running effectively. He only needs to continue playing with the poise that had him take the third down sack on the opening drive of the Cardinals game before he went off.
I welcome thoughtful disagreements and counter arguments!
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
0 recs |
14 comments
Comments
are those my choices?
they really do both suck but jacko is young enough to “unsuck”, gus is not. i’ll go w/ jacko
wyohonky
by wyohonky on Dec 16, 2008 7:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Re: are those my choices?
Jackson has shown steady improvement since coming into the league, and has thrown one INT this year. I really do not think anyone is being fair to him to say he sucks, or he is a bum. Get off your high horse, cheer for this kid, and give him some credit. He’s got a great arm, he’s athletic, and he has shown the ability to learn.
"but jacko is young enough to "unsuck" " … Did you think Jackson was to step into this league and be a pro bowler in his first season?! It’s called development. At least you recognize he is a better choice than Gus.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff222/LeoGetz25_2007/Peterson28-1.png
by aceinthecorner on Dec 16, 2008 8:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
ACTUALLY
In the games against Indy and Green Bay, the Vikes defense was still coming together and struggled to close out those games. True, the offense stunk too, HOWEVER, TJ played steady throughout the experience and now has a half season of the bench to really help him focus. I think he’ll be really good soon! His accuracy on Sunday was incredible! It wouldn’t matter what defense you’re against – when you’re on the money throwing the ball…
by mjmrad on Dec 16, 2008 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jackson
Frerotte, gave it his all, led us to some wins, and did it all with some leadership, but lets face it, he’s out of gas, and he gives us little options. Jackson was pulled because the fans couldn’t stand him, even though the play calling was very one dimensional. Jackson has obviously made some strides since then, and I have always believed that he can be molded into an NFL quarterback. The 4 touchdown passes weren’t flukes, they were damn near perfect throws, and he did an excellent job executing. I agree with the idea that Cassell isn’t built for this offense, and believe that Jackson should get the opportunity to be our starter. We need to understand that he’s not going to be without mistakes, just like Gus, and that he gives us more playbook especially considering his mobility and strong arm. I mean I believe in him, I fricking spent eighty bucks on a T-jack Jersey. In short, Gus filled in admirably, but is showing why he has been a back up his entire life. I give him all the credit in the world for leading our team to a 8-3 record while he was in, but T-jack is feeling it right now, and he should be the one who leads us into the playoffs this year, and the years to come
by nadrojchingy808 on Dec 16, 2008 9:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
TJack is doing a good job right now. I hope he can keep it up. I would like nothing more than to see our 2nd round QB of the future actually turn that corner and become a better than average QB and then finally a really good QB.
I’m fine with Tjack playing out the rest of the season as long as he plays as well as he has been. I’m even fine with him being our starter again next year.
BUT we’d be stupid not to get another QB in Free agency or the Draft if one is available. You need to have an insurance policy on your QB if only because your starting QB can be injured. The statistics on how many QB’s start at least one game each year are as high as they are for multiple reasons – busts and injuries among them. Look no farther than the cowboys or our own history to see what happens when you dont have a good enough insurance policy behind center.
by Hoss-Drone on Dec 16, 2008 10:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Joking?
Every team has multiple quarterbacks, likely 3. You can’t have a football team without them. That isn’t even an issue.
by LoveHate on Dec 17, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was implying that Gus is not our future and will be/should be gone. Giving his roster spot to another new QB.
Gus has spent his career being a stop-gap. That’s what he is for us. If Tarvaris has improved then he’s our number 1 and we bring in a younger guy to back him up. If he hasnt improved he becomes the de-facto back up (on experience) and that new QB that’s brought in becomes the starter.
Try focusing more on the totality of what I was saying next time……..and think before you respond……
by Hoss-Drone on Dec 18, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
:)
I mean I believe in him, I fricking spent eighty bucks on a T-jack Jersey.
HA!
No more draft picks. Takes too long unless you have a solid starter or just don’t care anymore. JDB is our draft pick. TJ starts, a younger-than-Gus journeyman @ #2, and JDB. If TJ gets jettisoned, JDB and the new draftee wouldn’t be ready, so we need someone anyway.
GO VIKES!
by JasonAve6413 on Dec 16, 2008 10:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If Gus doesn’t retire I don’t have a problem with him sticking around. I think he’s helped Jackson to progress. Obviously I don’t want him to teach Jackson how to find the open defender, but if he’s helping him go through reads and how to throw a catchable ball, we should keep him.
by Frost on Dec 17, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jackson
If he’s winning our games and playing smart like he’s been I can’t go wrong with him.
This post seemed a little old though. I believe all of us against Jackson turned our opinions and said we may have been wrong about him. No reason to question it anymore.
Because if Gus were healthy he’d still be in, WHY, because he was the QB on the team helping us WIN games! And yes, it is a most important stat in any sport.
by vikingfiend on Dec 17, 2008 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The only problem with that idea is the question of whether Jackson could have won the exact same games Frerotte won, or if we would have even lost the ones that Frerotte did. I don’t know if last sunday was going to be how Jackson usually plays, or if it was just a good day, but that game was definitely better than Frerotte’s best game.
by Frost on Dec 17, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How does Jackson usually play?
Jackson is a third year player with 17 games started. He doesn’t usually play. He’s played just one game more than a third of the games since he’s been in the league.
He’s also 9-8 as a starter. So he usually wins, right?
The jury isn’t out on Tavaris Jackson and anyone who thinks it is, clearly doesn’t understand football.
by LoveHate on Dec 18, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
Taking nothing from Gus you should be proud that he became the eleventh QB in the NFL to throw that 99 yrd pass.
Other games some will dispute is the first Lions game but again he also threw for 298 yrds. And don’t forget beating the Panthers in Week three. Gus came in for the slumping Jackson.
I agree with you on another post when you said he may have helped Jackson mature as a QB. The bottom line here is that Childress would have stuck it out with Gus because even though he doesn’t make the smartest Coaching decisions it would’ve hurt him if he were to go with Jackson while we were on our winning streak. From the Coaches stand point I couldn’t see him sitting out a QB with a winning record. Someone had also mentioned in a earlier post that Frerotte’s injury almost seems fixed. I know it sounds far fetched but maybe, somewhere Chilly thought he may have made a mistake taking T-Jack out.
by vikingfiend on Dec 17, 2008 8:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Tale of Two QBs
That’s a story that’s looking all too familiar.
I see talk about T-Jack’s first two disastrous starts as if that was all we had to go by, but it wasn’t. The pre-season might not count for stats, but T-Jack didn’t look any better there. There’s a reason that everyone was howling for his replacement and for Childress’ head on a silver platter (and barring a Superbowl win, I’ll stick with that latter). I don’t think he was ready, at that time, mentally, to be a starting QB in the NFL. And I think his development as an NFL QB was made more difficult by situation he was placed in.
That being said, the T-Jack we saw against the Cards is vastly improved. The past 13 weeks on the sideline, watching and learning, have absolutely helped him to improve and that was reflected in the game. Also, he was fully rested and fresh, while Gus was on his last wheeze. Gus has never been able to hang for the entire season, so I believe Chilly when he said he expected it to take 2 QBs to get through the post-season.
So yes. T-Jack has proved that he’s grown up a bit, and is smarter in his play than he was back in Sept.; let him run he offense as long as he can.
And then there’s JD Booty… Wow… there’s a guy who’s shown absolutely no cause for confidence this year, yet they speak of him as a suitable backup to T-Jack if Gus isn’t read. This is the weak link that scares the hell out of me. What if Gus wasn’t ready to step back in, T-Jack scrambles and takes a hit that takes him out of the game, and in strolls JD to take the helm…
So yeah. The Vikes need some QB horsepower under the hood, STILL. Even if T-Jack is the solid answer we hope him to be, there’s zero chance that Gus is going to be better next year than he was this year and JD isn’t remotely close. We need someone solid in the wings, to step in and spell T-Jack through the year, a good vet. I still wish it had been Chad Pennington, but who knows who will break free and come available next year? I know a lot of folks like Cassel for the job, but I’m skeptical. JD doesn’t thrill me with his ability so I think the draft has to be considered, just in case something juicy is available when the Vikes time comes around. You never know what trades might be brewing between the back offices, I just hope they find someone solid to take Gus’ place.
by DCPurple on Dec 19, 2008 10:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

by 
















