Frazier Bypassed For Another Job, Could Still Be Gone Soon

by Gonzo on Jan 15, 2009 7:38 PM CST in Vikings Comment 11 comments

Well, the Vikings won't have to worry about having to face a Leslie Frazier-coached team twice a year any time soon. The Detroit Lions, who were thought to have Frazier among their list of favorites for the job, have hired Tennessee defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz to be their next head coach.

So Frazier won't get the unenviable task of attempting to turn around the first 0-16 team in NFL history. I'm not sure whether Frazier should be happy about this or not. On the one hand, I'm sure he really wants to be a head coach. . .not to mention that he couldn't possibly jack things up any worse in Detroit than Rod Marinelli did. On the other hand, he doesn't have to deal with the Ford family (who clearly, with all due respect to our friends from Pride of Detroit, don't know a damn thing about football).

Frazier was also, from all reports, considered one of two favorites for the job with the St. Louis Rams, from all reports, along with their interim head coach Jim Haslett. I say "was" because the Rams made the announcement today that Haslett is not going to be retained by the team. Pro Football Talk is reporting that Frazier is now expected to be the guy in St. Louis with this announcement, and that said announcement could come as early as Saturday.

So, like we've been saying all along, folks. . .get ready to lose another good coach. But, hey, at least we've still got Brad Childress and Darrell Bevell, right?

Excuse me. . .I believe I need a drink.

Poll

How much would the possible departure of Leslie Frazier for the Rams' head coaching job affect the Vikings' defense?

A lot. . .Frazier was the main reason this defense was as good as it was.

55 votes

Somewhat. . .Frazier is a good coach, but he was given pretty good parts to work with.

285 votes

No difference. . .anyone could have gotten the results he got with the Vikings' defense.

35 votes

375 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

A possible candidate...

If Ron Rivera isn’t retained by the Chargers, that is a very real possibility for a replacement for Frazier and the guy would have my vote.

Rivera worked with Childress in Philly for ~4 years as the LB coach and has a vast knowledge of the Cover 2 and beyond. I wasn’t sure how he would manage San Diego’s 3-4 after Ted Cottrell was fired but I believe he had them allowing the fewest YPG from the point he took over to the end of the season. The guy likes to blitz more than we’re accustomed to and I would absolutely love to see what he would do with the talent on this defense.

The guy was the defensive coordinator in Chicago when they lost to the Colts two years ago and maybe doesn’t give that great of an interview as he has yet to be hired as a head coach despite a pretty impressive resume.

by drew10 on Jan 15, 2009 9:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hire Haslett

I would take Jim Haslett as a Defensive Coordinator (or even head coach). The guy proved he could retool and make winners out of the New Orleans Saints. Although he was not very consistent, that might be because they were…the New Orleans Saints….

by DBQViking on Jan 15, 2009 9:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

+1

Haslet is a good idea, although I hope that the Vikings would consider an offensive-minded HC candidate to replace Childress and/or Bevell whenever that time comes. Maybe said OC/HC candidate would be better than Haslet for HC, maybe not, but I definitely agree that JH can help our D.

by KC Viking on Jan 16, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Say no to Haslett!!

Living in St Louis, I can tell you that Haslett would be a horrible idea. He really wore out his welcome in New Orleans, and his last three season as the Rams DC has lead the Rams to:

Yr Total Yds Points Scored
2008 28th 31st
2007 21st 31st
2006 23rd 28th

Let’s put it this way. I pray to Jesus every night that the Packers hire him to be there next defensive coordinator, because the Rams make every opponent look like the 1998 Vikings on offense.

Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals

www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com

by MilCardFan on Jan 16, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't judge him strictly by the StL years

The Rams have had an organizational problem with defense for at least 10 years, it seems. No doubt, he probably made his share of mistakes there, too, but so many good to great coaches learn from their earlier mistakes and move on to bigger and better things.

I’m not a Childress fan, but even I need to acknowledge that he appears to have learned from some of his mistakes. I remember that he was anti-shotgun at first, and he eventually added shotgun formation plays. The playcalling improved during 2008. The W-L record has been better for 2 seasons in a row (although I think this was really a 7-9 or 8-8 team without two games vs. the worst team ever and 2 more lucky wins against .500 or worse teams). I can’t recall Chilly having a run-in with a player this season after a few memorable ones in his first two seasons. And in the next 3-7 months, we may learn of a new QB in town who could actually challenge TJ for the job (or that JDB looks awesome in camp and will challenge TJ for the starting job).

Bill Belichick bombed in Cleveland and did an OK job as a coordinator with the Jets (obviously not great enough to win or go to a Super Bowl) before leading the Patriots’ dynasty years. Bill Parcells led the NYG to a 3-12-1 season and benched Phil Simms for Scott Brunner during his first year as an NFL head coach. Mike Shanahan was fired from the Raiders before he coached in Denver. I’m not saying that Jim Haslett or Brad Childress will be comparable to these guys someday, but either or both could have a nice run with another team later on.

by KC Viking on Jan 16, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't, I take his whole body of work into consideration,

and he has had nothing more than a pedestrian career, sprinkled with periods of complete ineptitude. As a DC in Pittsburgh, they ranked about the middle of the league in either points allowed or yards given up, and he parlayed that into the head coaching gig in New Orleans.

As a head coach in NO, he won a division title his rookie campaign, and his teams got progressively worse, bottoming out at 3-13 in 2005. His defenses were categorically horrid in St Louis, and his interim head coaching mark was 2-10. This season was a microcosm of his career. Start out strong (2 wins) and then a Titanic-scale disaster.

Head coaching career is 47-61, and as a DC his teams were okay, but not great. I’ve had enough pedestrian, I want excellence.

So I’m happy that Les Frazier will probably be back.

Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals

www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com

by MilCardFan on Jan 18, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Defensive coordinator

This will be a good test year. Let’s sign Dick Cheney as D-Coordinator and see if Tomlin and Frazier were really that good. Maybe Karl Dunbar deserves all the credit? I’m just saying…

by IA-VIKES on Jan 16, 2009 11:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Gonzo, you're not suggesting that Marinelli, not Matt Millen, screwed the Lions up

now are you? Look at the roster and tell me how many games they should have won. They’ve got nothing. Who, besides Calvin Johnson and maybe Ernie Sims would anyone want on their teams?

I think Frazier is lucky he didn’t get that job because it’s going to take a while to turn them around. You really have to start over from scratch, and what are the odds Schwartz will be there when that roster turnaround is compete?

If Frazier does leave, I don’t think Childress will go outside the organization for a replacement. IT will be one of the assistants we already have, which is a blah, boring way to go, but maybe they know the defense as well as Frazier or better.

This is another reason you need to go deep in the playoffs: no team has the patience to wait for the winning teams’ assistants to take their jobs, so you get to keep a good staff. Of course, you would have to have a good staff in the first place, which we don’t.

by Bodysuit Man on Jan 16, 2009 1:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Lions, if I may...

Look at the roster and tell me how many games they should have won. They’ve got nothing. Who, besides Calvin Johnson and maybe Ernie Sims would anyone want on their teams?

You didn’t ask me this question, but I’d love to take a stab at answering it. Using this version of their roster from 2008, I see at least 10-12 players which would help the Vikings and many other teams as well:

yes to LB Sims
and yes to WR Calvin Johnson
and to WR Roy Williams, even if that’s cheating now that he’s a Cowboy.
QB Drew Stanton (maybe even QB Kitna could help the Vikings or Chiefs)
At least one of their safeties (Dwight Smith or Daniel Bullocks) could improve some teams’ depth.
At least three of their starting OL (T Backus, T Cherilus, C Raiola)
Aveion Cason — a 3rd string RB may as well be able to return kicks and punts. Hicks is probably better, but there must be a few teams that could use Cason.
WR Shaun McDonald would be able to compete for the #2 WR role as a Viking.
WR/S Mike Furrey (probably won’t catch 1,000+ yds again, but is a versatile reserve player who can play on either side of the ball).
at least 1 DL must be young enough to have some potential.

I think Marinelli is at least 33-40% to blame for the worst season ever. No defensive HC should lead a team to the worst D in the league (let alone one of the worst ever).

People love to pile on Matt Millen (and he probably deserves most of it), but all of the draftniks like Kiper and Scouts, Inc. and the like told him to draft players like Charles Rodgers, Mike Williams (#1 on Kiper’s list of self-admitted mistakes), Joey Harrington, et al. Philosophically, it’s easy to see a parallel between Millen’s Lions and DeBartolo/Clark’s Browns (and the Bengals teams of the past 10-15 years to a lesser extent) in the sense that each team took a franchise QB before building a strong supporting cast…and missed on one or more RBs, which are normally immediate impact players…and missed on at least one big-money WR.

by KC Viking on Jan 16, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kiper and the bunch are

television personalities paid to give the lay viewer an “insiders” look at player evaluation. Every team has a staff of scouts and personnel persons that study game film, attend university workouts and the combine, proffer interviews and host talent in an effort to get an idea of what players would be best for their respective organization. Millen deserves more blame than your giving him when you consider his longevity with the club.

by LoveHate on Jan 16, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

PS

I think the Lions should have won at least 1-2 games in 2008. They lost by 8 or less 5x: a 2-pt loss to MN; a 4-pt loss to MN; a 4-pt loss to CHI; a 7-pt loss to Houston; 8-pt loss to Washington. Maybe Kitna (or Stanton) could have beaten MN once or twice and won again vs. CHI and/or Houston.

by KC Viking on Jan 16, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs