QB Possibilities
by DCPurple on Jan 9, 2009 9:36 AM CST
38 comments
Yeah yeah, I know, we're beating the hell out of this one, but that's because we know this is the single most critical issue the Vikes need to fix, and none of the previous posts has reached anything remotely like a consensus for decent options. Came across an article in the Pioneer Press that did the same run-down, only more complete;
http://www.twincities.com/ci_11407058?source=most_emailed
Most of names have distinct negatives attached to them and we've covered those, but there's 3 names that seem to stand out as the best possibilities for 2009;
66.5 - Derek Anderson
80.2 - Matt Leinart
79.5 - Sage Rosenfels
What do you think of those three? The Vikes didn't want to spring for Rosenfels last year, maybe they'll change their mind...
On a slightly different note, just a bit of angst of what we could have had if the Vikes had put JDB on the waiver list instead of Thigpen.... Hey, how 'bout that Thigpen?!? He's doing alright for a rook playing 1st string.... So much for Chilly's vaunted QB judgement.
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Why do we have to keep starting new posts every time we have a thought about the QB situation?
I am ambivalent to these 3.
V-I-K-I-N-G-S! Skol Vikings, Let's Go!!
Unfortunate or not...
The topic of the Vikings future QB is going to dominate the fanposts, and likely Gonzo’s posts, at least until the free agency period begins and the draft. Assuming no QB is taken or dealt for, it will still dominate. If a QB is acquired, it will continue to be the main topic of discussion.
Given anyone’s wet dream of a QB or the retention of Tarvaris as the starter, it will still be the main topic of discussion.
See a trend here?
I don’t think the QB possibilities are going away for a long time. If ever. Until Tarvaris instills himself as the franchise quarterback we want him to be or one is acquired/grown/discovered/whatever.
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I definitely understand that. It’s al I want to talk about right now too. I was just thinking that people could contain all the talk into a fewer number of threads is all. Instead of having 10 posts with 15 comments each, 3 posts with 50 comments each. It’s not really a big deal, I know, I’m just being nitpicky I s’pose. I don’t like that posts made a day ago are already out of the “recent” box on the right.
V-I-K-I-N-G-S! Skol Vikings, Let's Go!!
By this logic
I’d rather have the guy who posted a 95.4 passer rating in 149 attempts last year.
It has to be a joke.
How is it Norseman can insist Jackson isn’t capable of quarterbacking the team and point to Tyler Thigpen as a model of success? He quarterbacked one victory out of 14 starts.
I haven’t read the article you mentioned, but doubt Arizona is going to give up on their first round draft pick without giving him an opportunity.
Derek Anderson has one season of work in a down field passing game that was impressive. He was signed to a nice deal and began to under perform again.
Sage Rosenfelds, aside from being under contract to a team he started several games for (lost the game to Indy single handedly) this past season might not be an option either. Needed two sides to agree to a trade and all.
Thigpen, Anderson, and Leinart
Tyler Thigpen did better than you think. Sure, he only won 1, but that was more than the Chiefs deserved to win anyway with their talent level, especially after injuries and off-the-field incidents.
As long as Cleveland would take a 3rd round pick for him, I’d be an Anderson fan. I’m not convinced that he’s great, but I do think that he would be better than Frerotte or Holcomb and be worth keeping for a few years. I can’t imagine that Cleveland would want too much more for Brady Quinn, though, and I’d rather get him. I’m fairly certain that Childress would oppose a Quinn trade just because he would be a very real threat to TJ.
Leinart would be fine at a slight discount, too. I also doubt that the Cards would give him up, but they might if they think that Kurt Warner will stick around for another season or two.
The Vikings were willing to trade a 2nd rounder for Sage last year, and I was glad it fell through. Then the Vikings drafted Tyrell Johnson instead of DeSean Jackson with that pick, so no starting roles were affected by the highest pick we had in 2008 anyway. Back to the drawing board, then.
I don’t know. Thigpen is ehh. The jury is still out on him.
Cleveland was offered, supposedly, this year and next year’s first round picks for Quinn… and they turned us down. So I doubt we’ll be seeing Brady Quinn in purple. Anderson, I’m not sure about. He really did terrible this season, with wide outs I consider to be the same as, if not better than, our’s. And he has Joe Thomas. I don’t think it would work out here.
Leinhart isn’t going to be traded unless we’re selling the farm for him.
The worst part about this situation is the waiting. I want it to be FA period already so we can see who is released or who we can possibly even trade for.
And I wanted us to take DeSean, but I suppose that things worked out better by taking Johnsonn. If we hadn’t signed him, we’d have had to go to the street to pick up safety with Madeiu hurt those first weeks and Boulware on IR.
The other TJ vs. DeSean J
I don’t know if Tyrell Johnson was that important to our early season struggles. I’m sure he had a positive value over a replacement safety, but probably not that much. There was sufficient time to find someone (or draft a safety in the later rounds, or pick up the best CB available and move Griffin to safety for a few games) in April. I’ve forgotten whether they had signed Madieu before or after the draft.
I can’t believe that Cleveland turned down 2 first-round picks for Quinn. (I believe you, jus’ sayin’…) And you are absolutely correct to suggest that Cleveland’s WRs are at least as good as the Vikes’ (I would guess better than the Vikes’). The Browns didn’t seem to think that Quinn was their guy during the 2008 season so much as Derek Anderson was not their guy. We’ll see what the Mangini era is like with or without Quinn relatively soon, I suppose.
I was skeptical about Thigpen when the Vikings drafted him, but I liked what I saw of him this year, aside from his first start. Thigpen seems to have outdone TJ’s first season as a starter with a worse team (especially worse running game and OL). He certainly warrants more future consideration and roster space than Kelly Holcomb and Gus Frerotte.
Yeah, he really did turn out to have more potential than Holcomb and Frerotte, but, at the time, Holcomb was the veteran presence. I wish we’d have dropped Bollinger to keep Thigpen, but hindsight is 20/20 really. Holcomb really wasn’t much use at all, so we would’ve done just as well to cut him also. But we’ll have to see how things pan out this coming season.
Bollinger, Holcomb, and Thigpen
I’ve always liked Bollinger, and I’ve wondered if he would have been any better or worse than Frerotte. Chilly traded a draft pick to acquire him, too. One would think that a QB worth a draft pick (and a player, C.J. Mosely, in this case) would necessarily be significantly better than whomever could be signed in FA, old enough to be a veteran, and young enough to be worth keeping for at least 2-3 years. Brooks is still on an NFL roster, which is more than anyone can say about some of Chilly’s trade targets.
I liked Holcomb, too, except he was already old and near retirement. He had had a high enough completion % to be a worthwhile game manager type before his year in MN (the worst season of his career). There is always a chance of any player having his worst season right now, and I would always prefer that the player be a cheap young player who could improve rather than an overpaid veteran who is struggling to stay in a young man’s game. QBs which could have been selected with that draft pick: Colt Brennan, Andre Woodson, Matt Flynn, Alex Brink. I suppose at least half of those would have been cut a year later anyway when they drafted Thigpen. 2008 was sort of the year of Vikings ex-QBs starting games for other teams (Thigpen, J.T. O’Sullivan, Shaun Hill…). Besides, Childress had more genius points on the line with Thigpen (a Division I-AA QB from a school which had never had a player drafted), and I’m surprised he didn’t keep Thigpen for that reason alone.
I don't know how to say it
With Tyler you have to watch him to apreciate him. He young make some very impressive throw and read.
QB possibility
I haven’t heard anyone mentioning a possible trade for Carson Palmer. Fitzpatrick is a FA, but has a full year under his belt and Carson’s elbow sounds like no surgery and healing fine. He has been in Crap-inatti for years so trade to bring him to Minny and bring along FA WR TJ Housh and we solve our problem. I don’t see the future in TJack even with another year of “learning.” Give Booty 2nd string reigns behind a true vet who can still bring it for awhile.
Can you imagine the price for Carson Palmer? I have no doubt it would be at least 2 first round picks, and maybe a second and third as well. Teams don’t just let QBs like Palmer walk out the door.
There just is no one else in the free agent market to spend any time on…Wilf was willing to spend some bucks on Jared Allen and it has paid off big time. Don’t forget, Palmer is coming off a down year in ‘07 and only played 4 games this year and has been injured most of the season. Remember the Brees trade to the Saints? Brees had serious shoulder injury, a bit risky and the Saints scooped him up. Cincy is not even close to being a contender so I’d think they’d be more willing to trade for some draft picks and/or players to help improve their team…we’re a great QB away from a SB…let’s go get one!
Brees
NO picked him up as free agent. San Diego didn’t get dick in return for Brees.
I doubt the Bengals would ever trade Palmer for anything reasonable. He has looked awesome when he is healthy and the Bengals don’t have anyone waiting in the wings.
The Trade Equation
The problem, Frost, with a trade situation, is that it’s not in ANY NFL team’s best interest to help the Vikings reach and win the Super Bowl by providing a top ranked QB. Knowing that the Vikes are one or two positions away from that (QB and #1WR) means that to get it will cost an arm and a leg.
Frankly if that’s what it takes, I say do it. Give up the #1 picks for a couple years if necessary to fill those spots with top ranked players, because they’ll cover the Vikes for a couple years and give us a great shot a Super Bowl title NOW.
Mark Sanchez
If he comes out this year, do whatever it takes to draft him and find someone who can mentor him until he’s ready for the job, even if it’s week 1, and if he doesn’t come out, find someone who is serviceable this next year who can mentor him, and then again, do whatever it takes to draft him.
Just my two cents on who I’d like to see leading the Vikings in the near future…
Lower Deck Tickets on 50 yard line behind Vikings bench = $119.00
Parking by the Metrodome = $25.00
Souvenir Soda = $6.50
Being there for 296 = Priceless
Thigpen 2007, JDB 2008
Thigpen was already gone, drafted in 2007 and cut at during the last cut-down in 2007. JDB was drafted in and made the regular season team in 2008. In other words, JBD was not available to cut in lieu of TT . . . . (poor fact-finding, if there was an attempt to "find").
Anyway, of the young QBs you mention, maybe Leinert, but I would almost rather get a short-term guy like Jeff Garcia for a year or two (assuming he holds up) and give Tavaris more time if there isn’t a clearly superior young QB to be had. This team is built to win now, not in three to five years.
Or maybe there is a new Tjack in the draft that Brad can mold . . . .
put a body on 'em
Yep
Childress thought he could sneak Thigpen through the waiver wire and place him on the practice squad. The Vikes have admitted that they screwed up. If he wants to complain it still as easy, what 3rd string LB or WR did the Vikes keep instead of Thigpen?
Sneaking through waivers
Not going to happen when the Vikes have made enemies by snatching waivered players from other teams.
Chilly's Choices
What I was pointing out is Chilly’s judgement of QB potential. He’s supposed to be this hot QB coach who knows real talent when he sees it. But he lets Thigpen go on waivers instead of Bollengier, and then he decides to keep Booty rather than pressing for a solid, younger, proven QB option (e.g. Rosenfels).
Maybe 2009 will be T-Jack’s year, he’ll finally grow into an NFL QB’s shoes and take us the distance…. but it would be damned nice to have another option to go to if he doesn’t pan out. And based on his track record, he won’t.
Didn't he go after...?
I’m pretty sure the Vikings went after Rosenfels, it just fell through because they were asking for a second rounder and Minnesota was offering a third rounder.
At least they were trying…
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I'm in
GIve us Rosenfels. He seems to play well. He did against us anyways.
Check out this Jared Allen blog, http://thejaredallen.blogspot.com/
QB options
It is definately not in Childress’s best interest to invest highly in a young QB when they have TJ and Booty.
I believe the best option is look for a veteran who can compete, mentor and step in if necessary. If the vet beats out TJ for the starting nod, so be it. So who is available? Not Cassel, not Leinart. Hasselback & Garcia would be tough competitors. Sage will stay in Hou and it depends on who the new coach is in Cle, that will determine the fate of Quinn & Anderson.
Seneca Wallace
87 rating, 58% comp. 11 Td. 3 Int. 1.5 million salary. 5th year in the league. He is as mobile, if not more so, than tarvaris. he has played in the post-season. He reminds me of Garrard of Jacksonville…sitting behind a starter and not getting a legitimate chance to showcase what he can do over an extended period of time.
Short
At 5’11", he’s not going to have great vision down-field through the linemen. Still, his stats show a pretty good accuracy, way fewer interceptions, percentage-wise, than what we have now.
The only thing is… if Hasselbeck is hurting, the Seahawks are going to be looking to Wallace as the ready-to-go solution. It takes a while to replace that, so Wallace won’t come cheap, if he comes available at all.
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