The QB Checklist

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 22, 2009 8:16 AM CDT Comment 39 comments

As mentioned on a couple of posts, there seems to be some Sam Bradford love going around now that he may very well be available in the middle of the first round. This got me to thinking that it might be helpful to put together a list of QB characteristics to help us avoid wasting time talking about QBs that don’t fit and likely busts.

First proposal is that we exclude any QB that couldn’t complete 60% of his passes or better while in College. Basically, you can’t teach accuracy after college. It is hard enough to teach a QB how to read schemes. If they can’t simply rely on their basic mechanics and ability to make throws they are doomed.

After that, I haven’t really formulated much of a criteria list. Anyone have any suggestions?

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I am guessing that Tall, Fast, “has the charisma of a leader” comments will be added at some point. Just not sure how important and high up on the list they should be.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 22, 2009 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Parcels rules for drafting QBs

1) He must be a senior. (Bill’s not known for his patience and, usually, the younger the QB, the more time he takes to properly master the job).

2) He must be a graduate. (Hey, if you’re paying your guy a lot of money and he’s going to handle the ball on every offensive play, he’d better not be a quitter. Rather, you want someone who takes his responsibilities seriously, e.g. no blowing off the spring semester to get ready for the combines).

3) He must be a three-year starter. (Once again, a lot of dough, as well as a good portion of the game plan, goes to this guy and it would be awful to get stuck with a "flash-in-the-pan," someone who waited, got his opportunity but what was overlooked, was that he took over a veteran team that only needed someone to keep a ship from sinking, not one to direct it to the shore).

4) He must have at least 23 wins. (It’s too easy to put up big numbers with a losing team who chucks it 50 times a game).

by Dave_M on Oct 22, 2009 9:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

not sure #3 applies anymore

not many top qb’s would fit these criteria. 1 or 2 good seasons and they’re gone.

by iseepurplepeople on Oct 23, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see a few things

1) I agree we want proven accuracy.
2) We need a smart guy. He doesn’t need to be a genius in terms fo book learning, but must have great football intelligence.
3) We need a winning attitude, that is he should be the starter on a winning team for at least two years.
4) He should have a better arm than feet and show it with passing yard. I don’t mind a scrambler, but an option system QB who runs as much as he passes doesn’t transfer to the NFL as fast and IMHO never worth a first round pick.

by ChemErik on Oct 22, 2009 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I want Tony Pike. Not saying I’d rather have Pike than Bradford but trading up doesn’t seem likely. Hell if we are going OU why not dream of Jermaine Gresham. He’s the real reason OU is struggling.

Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute

by mjschaefer on Oct 22, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Having a winning attitude doesn’t always mean wins on the field. There are too many factors involved at the college level to judge a QB on his win loss record. For example, Jay Cutler only won 11 out of 46 games in 4 years of college football(24% of his games). He seems to be doing alright. You can also have guys that win lots of games or throw for lots of yards, but don’t work in the NFL (see:any QB from Hawaii/Texas Tech). Sure you don’t want a guy that can’t win, but you shouldn’t discredit someone who doesn’t have a better than .500 winning percentage.

1)Leader
2)Football smart (i.e. understand game situations/coverages)
3)Quick decision maker
4)Strong arm
5)Tall
6)Athletic

by vikingfuture8816 on Oct 22, 2009 11:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think the term strong arm

needs to be expanded upon. There are lots of guys with canons, but you don’t need a canon. Every once in a while you need to be able to throw a solid 40 yard plus pass (that doesn’t arch like a rainbow), while being able to throw really fast and straight 20 yard passes. The biggest thing here is accuracy while throwing hard. A lot of QBs will lose that accuracy the harder they throw.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 22, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

More than happy to expand on it. When describing QB’s throwing ability, it usually falls into one of these categories:

1. Cannon Arm – QB’s with Cannon arms are generally described this way because they throw the ball as hard and as fast as possible on each throw. They aren’t incredibly accurate, but the speed at which they throw the ball can make up for some accuracy issues. Generally, this method of throwing has worked for them on the high school and college level and its tough to teach “touch”. You may have heard QB’s with this type of arm as “…X player can throw the ball 60 yards from their knees…”. Personally, I have never understood why that is a bonus since there are zero game situations that would require a QB to throw from their knees

2. Strong Arm – This isn’t to say they have tremendous arm strength as much as it means their arm is an asset. They have the strength to throw the opposite field out routes (a throw that requires great timing, speed, and accuracy to complete) while make touch plays over the middle and down the field. Having a strong arm is great, but if the QB can’t make fast/sound decisions, he will hold the ball too long and throwing windows will close, sacks and mistakes will be made and so forth.

3. Weak arm – Again, this isn’t to say their strentgh is weak, but the arm isn’t their biggest asset. Weak arm QBs struggle with throws down the field, but generally have good touch and accuracy. Bill Walsh created the West Coast offense in Cincinnati before being hired in San Fran because his QB had a weak arm, couldn’t complete down field throws, and had a less than stellar line to give me time to throw.

As a footnote, yes, Cannon armed QBs can have touch and accuracy and weak arm QBs can get the ball down field. This is simply generalization for the purpose of not having to over explain everything.

by vikingfuture8816 on Oct 23, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’d like to see one or more of the following characteristics in our next drafted QB:

1. Was buried on the depth chart until his senior year in the MVC;
2. Struggled to start at BCS program due to Yankees prospect’s presence;
3. Likes to drive tractors and play touch football in jeans during the offseason;
4. Is barely six feet tall and has a prematurely receding hairline;

These are all very common traits which are clearly indicative of future success in the NFL

by MCA1 on Oct 22, 2009 12:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the height thing is slightly overrated

as long as they are 6 ft+, can touch their toes and not have the ball hit their thighs when the run with it (ala dante), the physical dementions are overrated.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 22, 2009 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

big hands!

tongue in cheek.

I BELIEVE...

On the improbable Vikings win against the Ravens...
" OH MY HOLY BALLSACK " - IABerserker1

by ArizonaVikingsFan on Oct 22, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lets not forget

focus under pressure. No one will blitz them if they always keep focuses and can execute the dump pass well.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 22, 2009 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

if Bradford falls into the middle rounds next year i say we trade up and go get him

Vikings 4 the superbowl

by RaysOfHope on Oct 22, 2009 1:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Middle rounds?

He won’t go lower than round 1 pick 32 even with the injury.

by Bjorno on Oct 22, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

opps meant to say middle of the 1st round

Vikings 4 the superbowl

by RaysOfHope on Oct 22, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh.

Opps.

by Bjorno on Oct 23, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looked into a couple of QBs

1. I would never under any circumstances take Jake Locker, WAS.

2. Looked at some stats for a coupld of QB and would rank them as follows (not an all inclusive list.

Bradford
Clausen
Tebow
McCoy
McElroy

Noting that I would never draft McElroy and would shy away from McCoy as he is pretty inconstent in the decision making department as shown by his boom bust TD-INT rations. One year it is great…the next is even, then repeat.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 22, 2009 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Can’t imagine what you would possibly have against Locker. That guy has everything you look for in an NFL QB. Try and tear him down by just reading his stat page, but when you actually look at his situation and skills, he is fantastic.
Consider that his first two years at school he was a spread option QB playing at 240lbs and was the only offensive play maker both those years. Wasn’t so great as a passer, but they didn’t ask him pass, they asked him to run the ball. Which he was extremely successful at setting a PAC-10 record for rushing yards as a QB, as a RS freshman. Because he was the only threat on offense, defenses keyed on him and always gave him their best shots.
Need further proof that he was the only weapon? Just check out last year. With Locker in for the first 3 games, Washington put up a fight against Ohio State (where the score looks worse because Ohio State scored on the final play of the game to make it look bigger than it was), Oklahoma (the future BCS contestant), and without a celebration penalty (which was bogus), may have beaten ranked BYU team. After that he got hurt and they were never in a game again. Losing by double digits in all but one game the rest of the way.
Now, Locker has come back this year, playing for the first time in a pro-style offense(and more than 20lbs lighter than he played as a freshman), and he has shown huge improvements and the ability to work in such a system (i.e. he isn’t just a RB playing QB). Now with the same players that went 0-12 last year, he has them 3-4 vs the, statistically, toughest schedule in all of Division 1 football (yet to play a team with a losing record, including 2 top ten BCS teams {playing #11 this weekend}, and a combine opponent record of 32-12 over 7 games:a 73% win%) while still being the only real weapon for Washington. Only now instead of running over defenses, he is passing on them.
There is also a real reason why he is referred to as “The Tim Tebow of the Northwest” and its not just because he was a big, athletic running QB. Its because his intangibles such as leadership and attitude are also on par with Tebow. If Locker had the talent around him that Tebow does, I have no doubts that he would be just as, if not more so, successful as Tebow has been.
Personally, I would like Locker to stay in school for another season, both because I am a little bias (a Washington alum) and because another season in a pro-style offense would have him much better prepared for the NFL. However, that wouldn’t stop me from drafting him if he came out this year. He is a special player whose skills translate very well to the NFL and will be a factor there when he does decide to go.

by vikingfuture8816 on Oct 23, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Locker is a great talent, and I would be thrilled if the Vikings drafted him. Especially if Favre stays another year, so our 1st round drafted QB can sit for at least a year and learn.

by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Oct 23, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Locker is a prime

example of a QB that gets overhyped and people overlook his flaws. The man can’t get to 60% completion percentage. Do I really have to say anymore. I watched last week game and he makes poor decisions too. I will personally boo that man and the vikings if they draft him. And if his first two years they mostly asked him to run, why couldn’t (in the limited throws) get to 60%? It’s not like he had to carry the team with his arm.

For the record, I wouldn’t draft Tebow either. At least not as a starting QB. Maybe as an H back in the wildcat or something.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 28, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to hate on Locker

but look at NFL history and find how QBs have done when they haven’t been able to complete over 60% of their passes in college. Long story short…not well. Although the WR and TE talent increases, so do the defenses. that % does not increase and no pro QB that can’t complete 60% of his passes is putting his team in a good position to win.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 28, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Further note

if the QB hasn’t thrown at least 25 times per game played…they likely won’t pan out. The theory is that if the possessed the necessary arm strenth, decision making and accuracy to play, then the coach would allow them to throw more. This would exclude Tebow from the draft list.

He is clearly a guy that was put into positions to look really good and not necessarily make plays with his arm.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 22, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I would trade up into the middle of the first round to get Bradford

but would go any higher as I would rather grab Clausen at the end of the first and not give up our second rounder. I would love to get both Clausen and SUH (DT), but don’t see how that happens unless a lot of other QBs impress at the combine and he slides to the second round. SUH will be a first round pick.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 22, 2009 2:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

lately ive been really high on Clausen

i think he is going to be the best out of all the QB’s drafted next year if he declares

Vikings 4 the superbowl

by RaysOfHope on Oct 22, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sold on Braford being worth trading up for

So, yeah if we can get Clausen without giving up a 2nd rounder I’d like that. Of course barring injuries, a complete breakdown, etc. I haven’t seen enough of Clausen to have a fully informed opinion, but everything I’ve seen shows franchise NFL QB potential.

by ChemErik on Oct 22, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Suh is a top ten pick

no way we get him

Vikings 4 the superbowl

by RaysOfHope on Oct 22, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Top twelve QB's and their prospective rankings

Claussen was ommitted for some unknown reason. This list was done before the Bradford injury. I’ve not followed Snead or Le Fevour but they are in our draft range.

My requirements:
Four year player
Accurate
Quick Feet in the pocket
Low interception %

The reason I want those qualities is because that’s what it takes to run the West Coast Offense. Chilly believes he is running a West Coast system. Always draft to your system.

Rank Player School HT WT 40 Rate Rd
1 Sam Bradford * Oklahoma 6040 218 4.72 9. 742 1
2 Colt McCoy Texas 6030 216 4.67 9 .621 1
3 Tim Tebow Florida 6030 238 4.58 8 .994 1
4 Jevan Snead* Mississippi 6030 215 4.67 8 .852 1
5 Dan LeFevour Central Michigan 6030 228 4.797 .925 2
6 Jarrett Brown West Virginia 6040 220 4.58 7 .658 3
7 Colin Kaepernick* Nevada 6060 215 4.747 .625 3-4
8 Tim Heller Western Michigan 6050 228 4.96 7 .579 4
9 Daryll Clark Penn State 6020 230 4.60 7 .538 4
10 Rusty Smith Florida Atlantic 6050 230 4.82 7 .508 4-5
11 Zac Robinson Oklahoma State 6030 212 4.68 7 .499 4-5
12 Tony Pike Cincinnati 6060 215 4.85 7 .489 4-5
13 Max Hall BYU 6010 200 4.76 7 .368 6
14 Isiah Williams Illinois 6020 232 4.72 7.345 6

by lifelongvike on Oct 22, 2009 2:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you can limit that to 3 years starting

Couple the experience with someone who has a solid head on their shoulders and enough said.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 22, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I meant a four year graduate not starter

Thre years starting would be great’

by lifelongvike on Oct 22, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look what the Dolphins got with the 26th pick in the 2nd round- 2008

The 5th QB taken in the draft. A four year starter

During his senior year in 2007, Henne completed 162 of 278 passes for 1,938 yards, 17 touchdowns, and 9 interceptions. He suffered a knee injury in the first half of the second game of the season against Oregon, and sat out the second half, as well as subsequent games against Notre Dame and Penn State, before returning to the starting lineup against Northwestern. Henne played his final college game against Florida in the 2008 Capital One Bowl. Henne was named the MVP of the game after he led his team to a 41-35 victory over the Gators and reigning Heisman Trophy winner, Tim Tebow. Henne is also the first quarterback for Michigan to ever go 0-4 versus Ohio State.

For his career, Henne completed 828 of 1,387 passes for 9,715 yards, 87 touchdowns, and 37 interceptions.1 All five marks are school records. Henne’s passing touchdown total is second in Big Ten Conference history.

by lifelongvike on Oct 22, 2009 3:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

QB thoughts

Cross-posted from the other thread with addendum.

Athleticism is mostly a given for any QB who’s been successful at the college level. Some are more accurate, others are stronger, but in general, if he’s been successful, you’re getting a serviceable arm.

What I look for most, however, are these things;

1) Intelligence and knowledge/learning ability (which plays into the film-watching and understanding and being able to put it to use – all the film hounding in the world does no good if they don’t understand what they’re seeing and don’t understand how to find the weaknesses and exploit them).

2) Situational awareness based on both timed expectation and vision. This usually requires a decent height. I know we have some short QBs that excel, but I think that’s more a fluke now than anything else. If you can’t see past the 6’6" linemen in front of you to know that your slot man just stumbled on his route and came open early (and won’t be where he’s supposed to be in another 2 seconds), that target isn’t going to be available and the probability of an interception goes way up. I always hated throwing blind, to me that was the option of absolute last resort. NFL QBs do it all the time, but I don’t like it and I think it’s the cause of the majority of interceptions. Since turnovers are a major cause of losing games, that makes them something to be avoided like the plague. So in this case, I’d look for a tall QB. 6’6" would do nicely :) , the taller the better.

3) True leadership ability. The number of QBs that are puttering around the NFL today who lack real leadership ability is appalling, T-Jack is one of them, but the worst case-in-point is Vince Young. A leader doesn’t have confidence problems, EVER. From the day he steps on the field, he knows who he is, what he can do, he’s sizing up his resources and figuring out how to use them before he sees the playbook. Getting sacked might annoy him but it doesn’t shake his confidence in HIS ability. I’m sick to death of hearing all the whining coddling about how this QB or that QB needs to build confidence or has their confidence shaken. I don’t buy it, I think that’s the result of having guys in the QB position who should never have been QBs to begin with, because no matter how good their athletic ability is, they aren’t real leaders.

4) Durability. A fragile QB isn’t going to last, and if the guy is constantly injured at the amateur level, it’s a real concern. Ideally I want a big, husky guy who can absorb a lot of damage, a freaking truck of a QB that LBs really don’t want to have to try to tackle. A big durable guy is better, IMO, than a fast nimble guy, when you’re talking QBs.

Hmmm…. when I add that all, my ideal QB in the NFL is best typified by Big Ben Roethlisberger…. and yeah, that’s about it. I’d gladly sacrifice Chilly’s left nut to get Big Ben in purple :) . But that’s what I think they need to look for, the next Big Ben.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Oct 23, 2009 11:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m still loving Dan LeFevour
from Central Michigan…I know I know, small school but the kid potentially has Joe Flacco potential.

by cutlassbob on Oct 24, 2009 5:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Flacco

How do you predict a Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, or Tom Brady?

None of those guys were top seeds, and yet time’s proven that all of them should have been top draft picks. I mean, the NFL has a bunch of guys who’s only job it is, all year long, to scout the colleges and discover the top players and rank them. These guys are professionals at what they do, I’m sure they have mind-blowing software packages to back up their decisions… and I don’t think they’re hitting even 50% accuracy when it comes to top QBs.

by DCPurple on Oct 26, 2009 5:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

Baltimore traded out of the 8th pick in the draft because Ryan had been drafted 3rd overall. They then traded back in to the first round to take Flacco 18th overall. A good drafting organization can spot a Ryan or Flacco. Bad scouting can cause you to waste a #1 pick. Hopefully we can be smart and draft the best available talent for our system. Except for T-Jax it has worked for Chilly so far. And T-Jax isn’t unproven yet. Just not ready early.

by lifelongvike on Oct 28, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kyle Boller

nuff said.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 29, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

#1 factor

come from behind game winning drives. if they are in big games they count 2.

by iseepurplepeople on Oct 23, 2009 1:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the way I see it

if we have a late draft pick most quality quarterbacks will likely be gone. I would rather see how Jackson can preform after sitting behind Favre for a year then risk another potential bust.

I would have a signature... but it could cause a schism on this site

by Grape Drank on Oct 23, 2009 7:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, even if we traded up to draft a middle to high round pick, we would still likely be taking a look to see how Jackson will perform.

We just need to either find ourselves a less-pussyish version of Jay Cutler, or convince Brett to see if the devil will extend the deal for another year or two.

by Bjorno on Oct 24, 2009 2:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We just need to either find ourselves a less-pussyish version of Jay Cutler, or convince Brett to see if the devil will extend the deal for another year or two.

Or maybe, both.

by DCPurple on Oct 26, 2009 5:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs