Thoughts on Sharper's Success?
by solafide on Oct 6, 2009 3:14 PM CDT
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Darren Sharper has been playing well for the Saints. The stats don't lie... through four games he's had 5 interceptions with 2 touchdowns! He looks like the 2005 Sharper, where in his 1st year with the Purple he logged 9 interceptions and 2 touchdowns. Why is he playing this well? I have my reasons, but why do you guys think Sharper is fitting in so well with New Orleans?
Should we have kept Sharper? Or does New Orleans' defense just mask Sharper's weaknesses, something that the Vikings defense could not?
Random thought: Longwell, Sharper, Favre... I wonder who's next on the Packers to become a Viking? Maybe Driver next year?
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Saints are a much better fit as far as defensive scheme than Vikings are
There is a recent article about it somewhere. Sharper says he was talking to Mike Tomlin (who’s an old friend of his) about Steelers too, but even Tomlin told him, man you fit in much better with what they are trying to do down in NO.
They've got an offense putting up big numbers...
and their D can afford to take risks.
Sharper, having written the chapter on taking risks in the pass defense handbook, is a GREAT fit.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Oct 6, 2009 4:01 PM CDT reply actions
Him over Johnson
After watching our safties get flayed last night, I’d easily like to trade T.Johnson for Sharper. Heck, I’d even through in a second round pick. Can you imagine the pressure of Allen + the ballhawking of Sharper? Forget sacks and safties. We’re talking picks and TDs!
Like Puddnhead said
Our version of the Tampa 2 doesn’t allow the safeties to ballhawk and requires them to play conservative, so it’s about the worst fit imaginable for Sharper. He was a professional while he was here, but he also said on occasion he’d like to play a little more “loose” than the schemes allowed after Childress and Tomlinson implemented the Tampa 2.
I’m sure he’s a lot happier in NO and I like the way our defense has played the past 3 years with the new scheme. So I think everyone wins—provided the Vikings cover better than they did last night going forward.
Fire Childress!
You would trade an up and coming 23 year old beast of a safety who has cornerback speed for an aging Darren Sharper who would prefer making plays for his own glory rather than the teams best interest?
I am glad you are not running our team.
We play 2 deep safeties, which means we need guys who can cover a lot of ground as well as make tackles. Sharper has lost a step and would rather miss a tackle going for a pick than to hit the guy to try and knock the ball loose.
or cheat towards one side or the other to overcome his missing 'step'
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Oct 7, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
He did this on his Pick 6 against the Lions and scored against the ‘rook’ QB.
A more experienced QB would have read his ‘cheat’ and hit the receiver coming open behind him.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Oct 7, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Besides it sounds like you wish he had Sharper’s skill and experience right now. If that was the case he wouldn’t be here. We wouldn’t have been able to afford him.
If we tried to get the most notable person at every position on our team we would wind up stuck llike the Redskins with mediocre players behind them, one or two injuries and there goes the season.
by midnightwonder on Oct 7, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, you all got me
Ok, I admit my previous comment was foolish. Chalk it up to the bitter resentment I feel towards Sharper succeeding away from us (hmm, wonder who can relate to that). That and I hate T. Johnson for making us look like chumps against an overrated Aaron Rodgers. Never liked the guy coming out of college and he’s proven nothing in his time here so far (has he even had his first career pick yet?).
I am pretty sure you can’t blame Rodgers’ performance only on Tyrell. It WAS the Packers and they DO have one of the better passing games in the league. You may think Rodgers is overrated, while the rest of the league knows that Rodgers is legit.
Even with a HORRIBLE offensive line he has put up solid numbers every week, overrated players do not do that.
Anyhow, Johnson had his first pick last year in his rookie year but we did not get him for his interception skills. We got him for his speed and for run support.
Run Support?
Johnson has completely whiffed more than once this season. Robert Griffith he is not.
Hopefully he will get better. Cedric Griffin sure has gotten better. I agree Johnson is the weakest link in our defense right now, followed by the pass coverage skills/execution of our LBs.
TiggerSr
Completely whiffed? I don’t recall those plays, but that does not mean they didn’t happen.
The only one I see completely whiffing is Madieu Williams.
And of course Tyrell is going to be our weakest link. He is a second year Safety who has started all of 10 games so far and our defense is stacked with talent. That should not be a knock on Johnson.
I mean, when you have Allen, Williams, Williams, Edwards, Greenway, Henderson, Leber, Winfield, Williams and Griffin to compete with it is easy to be the weakest link. I think the only two players that can compete with Tyrell for being the weakest link would be Edwards and Griffin.
Generally agree
although Greenway’s coverage skills in the zone are weak. Yes, I know he got two picks against the Lions, but he was not the primary defender in either case there. He was WAY off on Rodger’s 4th down pass to Lee. The football gods — who were clearly throwing bolts from the roof of the Domer at the refs all night — saw fit to throw a bolt at Lee, who promptly dropped the certain TD pass.
TiggerSr
Decent points except...
…the part about Griffin being one of the weakest links. He has vastly improved since a couple years ago, and I’m not even talking about the extra couple picks he’s making. I’m talking about the ability to shut people down.
The Vikings tend to put Griffin on the bigger stronger WR and Winfield on the smaller quicker WR for most of the game. Here are the numbers of those “bigger stronger WRs” during the last four games (the guys Griffin primarily covered):
B.Edwards 1 for 12
C. Johnson 5 for 51
J. Morgan 4 for 47
D. Driver 4 for 55
AVERAGE 3.5 catches for 41 yards.
Thats pretty good, if you ask me. Even if you wanna get picky and say that they mix coverages to often to attribute this all to Griffin, consider this. No other WR had better numbers in any of those games. What you see up there was their best production. Pretty paltry, huh.
Agree
Never said Griffin was a weak link. I said I was hoping Greenway would improve the way Griffin clearly has.
TiggerSr
You also have to consider who was throwing the ball on those first three games: Brady Quinn, Matt Stafford and Shaun Hill. All young, relatively inexperienced QB’s.
Paltry yes, but can it be mostly attributed to our talented secondary? Likely not.
I wish there was a website that had “garbage” plays available for review, so we could do a more in-depth review of who was covering who. But most of the plays I saw to Johnson, Griffin was not covering him. You could come back and say “that’s cause Griffin had the coverage”, but there is no way to know.
Griffin is getting better, I can’t argue with that.
As long as I'm at it...
Here are the numbers of the TEs we faced in those four games. These TEs are primarily the responsibility of the safties and LBs.
Royal/Heiden 6 for 74
Pettigrew/Heller 6 for 50
Davis 7 for 96
Finley/Lee 10 for 156
AVERAGE 7.3 catches for 94 yards
Yuck! And keep in mind, TEs aren’t supposed to outgain WRs in the passing game. If anyone here would like to argue with me that T.Johnson is actually doing his job (especially compared to our superior CBs), I’d like to hear it.
Cover 2
I have been having the same debate with my brother-in-law, who watches all the games with me.
Clearly TEs are killing us. Not clear who is responsible for covering the TE in the cover 2 — Greenway/Henderson or Johnson/Williams. Anyone know?
TiggerSr
Looking the 49er’s game, we had Madieu Williams on the TE Vernon Davis the entire time with EJ supporting him underneath. On most of the plays, we had Tyrell down closer to the line of scrimmage.
On that first Finley TD vs GB, Johnson missed a tackle. He also missed another by taking a bad angle. But it does not look like he was assigned to the TE on either.
Obviously, it depends on the playcalling, but in a standard cover-2 zone the LBs are responsible until they release them about 10-15 yards deep to the safeties.
Not sure, but if I remember correctly, on one play it was EJ who was 40 yards downfield to make the stop! Leber is also often in the pass-coverage mix in the mid-range.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I am pretty sure Tyrell is not the guy solely responsible for handling the TE.
But I agree that we are giving up too many yards to the TE. But if I had to choose who I wanted opposing defenses to throw to, I would rather they give it to the tight ends rather than the WR’s.
Very good point there. I would agree with the statement that I’d rather see the TEs get theirs than the WRs get theirs. On an average day a Pro Bowl WR will go about 8 catches for 100 yards. But on an average day a Pro Bowl TE will only go about 5 catches for 60 yards. Ya, if I had to choose, I’d take the later every time.
But I guess that brings us back to this. Why should we have to choose one over the other? Why can’t we shut they both down? Or is that asking too much?
Of course not
We need to shut it down more. The question is what is the current problem? Scheme or execution? If execution, who is screwin’ up?
TiggerSr
Or is it the blitzing?
Let’s face it, if Winfield is out doing cover instead of going after the QB, there’s not going to be as much available to throw to.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I think
Driver coming here would not only make me happy but that also would get Favre to play a second year for us!!!!!
A bird in the hand is worth about 10.99 at KFC and makes me lick my chops
Yummy!!!!!
There is absolutely, positively no chance in hell that Driver will ever be Viking
I’d say there’s a 95% chance that he retires a Packer
Driver's got a plan...
He’s going to contemplate retirement… then get kicked out by T.T. and be traded to… oh let’s say the Jets. Where he will be injured and released at the end of the 2010 season.
Favre will win big this year and retire! So Favre sits out the 2010 season. Then he comes back for the Vikings after the Vikings sign Driver and both will win big in 2011!
Sharper was my favorite Viking.
I hated to see him go. But I am glad for his success in New Orleans. Here’s hoping we beat him in the NFC Championship.
turds are gold and green
We probably should have held on to him. Safety is the Vikings worst position at the moment. Teams are racking up yards up the middle. I would hate to see what Peyton Manning could do against the Vikings with are safeties playing so badly
Here I come to kill the packers
Scheme bro, bump and run man coverage allows safeties to play looser and undercut routes while cover 2 soft zones mandate safeties play over the top. When you undercut, you get more picks. Simple as that. D-Sharp looks better now with NO because he’s given free reign to undercut a reciever on his side of the field instead of playing over the top for support. NO has arguably better man cover corners while our corners are strong run supporters but weaker cover corners. Our Defense is built around our players strengths and weaknesses.
We are the vikings.......resistance is futile.
Our weak point appears to be at the Safety position
Sharper being a misfit in cover 2 would have been better than what Tyrell is showing right now. For that matter I haven’t been impressed with Madieu this eason either.
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