Coaching job security

by dwarg on Nov 12, 2009 10:58 AM CST Comment 21 comments

NBC sports is conducting a poll on most and least likely coaches to get fired.

Currently Mike McCarthy is the 4th most likely coach to get fired while Brad Childress is the 4th least likely coach to get fired. More interesting is that both coaches have the exact same win/loss ratio at 31-25 with McCarthy having one more playoff win than Childress.

It makes sense in light of two teams going in opposite directions from the beginning of their coaches' tenures up to now. But I think another symmetry should be noted. Since both coaches have taken over the Vikings have spent more money on players than all but two other teams in the NFL while the Packers have spent less than only two other teams. Might this be a factor in team success? At the bottom of the food chain things make sense since below Green Bay we find Tampa and the Chiefs. At the top things are a little less clear thanks to owners that throw money around with no clue what they're doing (Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones I'm looking in your direction).

ESPN has been tracking fan ratings of coaches for some time and last season it was funny to see Childress bounce around the board from week to week based on weather the Vikings won or lost, though he did climb erratically higher as our record improved. This year, according to the ESPN graph, Childress was a considerably worse coach because of the interception at the end of the Steelers game (and let's not forget that tripping call (am I right R4F?)) in week 7 than he was in week 5 when he single-handedly defeated the menacing St. Louis Rams.

Does anyone know of a website that rates teams, year by year, on criteria like, coaching, free agency, draft quality, player development, ownership situation, etc.? Maybe even add to that player sets like O-Line, D-Line, RBs, WRs, QBs, Linebackers and Backfield. Taking individual names out of the ratings should reduce the tendency to over apply blame or credit to individuals, give a better overall picture of the team's structure and health and, in regards to player sets, reward depth at those positions to take into account injury resiliency.

Or we could just keep assigning all credit and blame to the coaches...

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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It's a, "What have you done for me lately?" league.

That’s how it is nowadays. Nobody gets the time to properly build, unless your name is Jeff Fisher. Knee jerk reactions are just how fans react.

Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com

Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!

by Manimal on Nov 12, 2009 11:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

+1

sad but true.

i blame it on all the trophies given to last place kids….

by iseepurplepeople on Nov 12, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Since it's my thread

I gotta ask, what’s up with the bumpy purple vagina icon? Every time you post I click on it to see it larger to try and figure out what it might be, or is supposed to represent. As a public service you should create a signature that explains what it is.

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 12, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if you gaze too long into the purple vagina, a viking may gaze back.

by iseepurplepeople on Nov 13, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ewww....

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 13, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hmm...

…perhaps I’ve crossed some kind of line? Good taste?… Where are you going?…

…

Is this thing on?

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 15, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Um... yeah

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Nov 15, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

is THAT what's in there??

i never looked that close.

although i did feel something tickle.

by iseepurplepeople on Nov 16, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So it's not just A vagina... it belongs to you?

So now you’ve seen my 733t Photoshopz0rez sk1llz….

Who designed the purple vagina icon for you? If you did, how did you decide on the texture surrounding the vagina? Or the aqua effect and specular highlight on the clitoris which itself is part of a larger, shiny, deep-purple protrusion? What’s with the vertical labial seem extending off frame?

Is there any chance of you performing The Purple Vagina Monologues at the Orpheum Theatre this spring?

Many illustrative decisions were made while designing this icon either consciously or sub-consciously. I’m curious what they were… in a perfectly natural and healthy way of course.

Oh hey Sigmund… what are you doing here? Gotta go. Bye.

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 16, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

umm…

by iseepurplepeople on Nov 17, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Impatience

It usually takes years to turn things around, and Viking fans are notoriously impatient. Not as bad as, say, Iggles fans, but pretty bad.

by DCPurple on Nov 15, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right on

The owners want a winner fast because of the money they have at stake. So I agree with you to a point. But then again, three to four years is about the right amount of time to get a very competitive team on the field. If McCarthy doesn’t turn it around this season, the team is regressing under his leadership.

by Belarus on Nov 12, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's one side of it

The other side is that I don’t think anyone would claim that Matt Millen didn’t get enough time to build in Detroit. They spent several years blaming coaches and quarterbacks (burning money and draft picks) before people started to mention Millen by name, and even then it took years for the Fords to do what everyone said they should have done years before.

Another example would be Drew Bledsoe, for years everyone assumed Bledsoe was the best player the Patriots had, and constantly lamented, on his behalf, that he just doesn’t have any talented players around him. Then he got injured and we saw what his backup could do with those same players.

The question isn’t whether or not fans react in a knee-jerk manner, but if they do so because the debates are framed too narrowly, with too much focus on the individual independent of those around him.

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 12, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you can’t use detroit in a debate about building a franchise. detroit is…special.

also, the team new england had the year brady took over was going places with or without bledsoe. that was a solid team in every phase of the game. either of those 2 qb’s could have taken that team to the superbowl.

by iseepurplepeople on Nov 13, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What Manimal said

But it also matters the state of the team when the coach takes over. Generally a new coach comes on board beacuse the team sucked under the previous coach, and takes the team in the proverbial ‘new direction.’ How quickly they get turned in that direction goes into it as well. Mike McCarthy was a serious coach of the year candidate because he got the Packers to the NFC championship his second year and thus, expectations were raised. Now he’s a doofus.

Chilly raised expectations right away because he didn’t shy away from his label as a QB guru with a ‘kick ass offense’. When his hand picked QB didn’t pan out and his offense got their ass kicked more than vice versa, he was a doofus. Now he’s got a Hall of Fame QB and his offense rocks, and he’s a coach of the year candidate.

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by MilCardFan on Nov 12, 2009 7:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

But it also matters the state of the team when the coach takes over.

And it matters the state of the team when a new owner takes over, and it matters the state of the team when a new quarterback takes over. And the same with a GM (basically a stand-in for the owner) or a personnel director. It matters in different ways for those roles more than most others, but the point is, it’s the TEAM that matters.

There’s nothing wrong with coming down on, or raising up, an individual from among the ranks. But it’s important we look at the whole while we do it. The question is, as fans, is there any way to force those that report on the teams to look at individuals in an organization within the context of the whole rather than laying all the blame or credit at the feet of the person they’re talking about at the moment.

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 12, 2009 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that’s probably nearly impossible to do. these days, no one is going to step up and take any blame for anything. insiders may know some of the truth about how functional or dysfunctional an organization may be at different levels but it’s really hard for fans or even media to know (unless we’re talking about the raiders who air their laundry for all to see).

additionally, how many times has a coach and his staff been let go because the coach sucked but maybe some of his assistants were really good and they get let go too as simple collateral damage? you don’t dog on your fellow coaches because then you never work in the nfl again. that’s why none of those guys in oakland would come forward and fess up over cable smacking that guy.

by iseepurplepeople on Nov 13, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All true

is there any way to force those that report on the teams to look at individuals in an organization within the context of the whole rather than laying all the blame or credit at the feet of the person they’re talking about at the moment.

I doubt it. The head coach and the quarterback are the two most visible faces of the franchise, unless your name is Jerry Jones. Consequently, they’ll get too much credit or take too much blame. It’s not fair, it’s just the way it is.

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by MilCardFan on Nov 12, 2009 11:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yep...Nature of the beast....

My take: If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen….

Sometimes the attitude has to be “it sucks to be me” …too…

Work through it holding on to your beliefs, moving towards excellence…

At the end of the day that works or it doesn’t, and either you are a hero (for the proverbial 15 minutes) or a zero….

In either case, is a temporary thing…eventually you move on after having met your goals or not having met them….

It is just the way it is, to quote MIlCardFan…

Two more days…..

GO VIKES!

Off topic: Glad they are giving Winfield rest Sunday, we can do without him, will need him later much more, and at 100% ….no rush to get him in required at the moment….good coaching decision! Hero (till we lose another one?)! ; )

I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...

by vikingfanfrom afar on Nov 13, 2009 5:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ask Byron Scott

For those who don’t follow the NBA, Byron Scott won the coach of the year award one year ago and was fired just 9 games into this season. He didn’t coach any differently. Just got blamed. In a world of soundbites not enough people care about the details your post asks about. It would be nice for us junkies but most just want some football soundbites.

Bill Walsh took over the 49ers who hadn’t had a winning season in 6 years. His first year was 2-14. His second year was quite a success, 2-14. Third year 6-10. 4th year was a Super Bowl and dynasty.

He came to that team who had just traded away their sole for a washed up O.J. Simpson. He built the team around the idea of striving for excellence. It wasn’t a slogan it was a way of life. This has served as a model for all rebuilding teams since 1978. Unfortunately everyone forgets that Bill Walsh was also the G.M. and had total control.

Few owners want to give that much power and few coaches have the talent to do both. Thus the difficulty in building a management team that can operate like the Steelers, Patriots, and Colts.

Cleveland Fans want Mangini’s head. So did the 49ers fans in the first two years.

Not sure how I got so far off topic but I’m saying yes look at more than just the coach. But the fans need someone to yell at and the GM’s don’t stand on the sidelines.

Let me know if you find a good website that gives a complete picture.

by lifelongvike on Nov 13, 2009 9:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Actually...

I think yours is the first post that is dead on topic. Although I have to disagree with this:

He built the team around the idea of striving for excellence. It wasn’t a slogan it was a way of life. This has served as a model for all rebuilding teams since 1978.

It should be the model for all teams to follow, but the Browns and Lions certainly haven’t. If there’s someone smart in Chicago they should follow that blueprint too. But too often these days teams are lured into players with low 40 times and big egos. Or in Chicago’s case a QB with a million dollar arm and $0.10 head.

I haven’t found a site that gives a thorough ranking of teams but here is a good article on the Patriots and how they’ve built there team:

http://www.bnet.com/2403-13502_23-256409.html

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 15, 2009 11:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs