Tarkenton, Vikings and Common Sense.

You have the right to your opinion, as do others….This is one of the benefits of being a citizen of the good ’ole USA….freely stating what is on your mind (within reason)….as many have done…Not sure any of us will change the minds of those that do not like what Fran has said and done, nor those like you that think he is right and what he speaks is gospel or near gospel…

Now if those who want Tark to be silent, would be so amenable as to grant that Tark has the same right to voice his opinion as does you, or I, nothing about this would irritate me at all. But calls for him to be silent, that’s the only thing that infuriates me. Everyone in the USA has the right to an opinion, and the right to speak it, freely, and without fear of retribution, so long as they aren’t calling ‘fire’ in a theater.

I never suggested Tark’s words are ‘gospel’, only that they carry substantial weight. Considerably more than anything you, me, and anyone else on this blog, has to say about the topic of NFL football. That’s not exclusive to Tark, however… I grant the same to Ryan Cook and Tahi, because they’re the men in the arena. Yeah, I’m more than familiar with the speech at Sorbonne.

But please, in your defense of Fran, do not forget that others have this same right, respect their right, and allow them to practice this right without figuratively "shouting" them silent?

The only time I ‘shouted’ was in a message to you when you suggested that I was comparable to R4F, and I did it to demonstrate the difference between his ‘shouting’ and my writing. They are not the same, I don’t need to shout… but I will respond. I don’t think that’s the same as ‘shouting someone down’.

As much/as many posts on this subject you have here defending anything that you perceive to be negative regarding Tarkenton, it is apparent to me that you are not impartial (is ok, I am not either)…

Nope, I’m not impartial, lol! I’m a fan of the Minnesota Vikings, I remember wearing Viking ‘jammies (those ridiculous pants-suit-jumper things with the foot-covers built in that you zipped into) when I was 5 years old, and in the ’70s, when I played sandlot football as a young teen, used to pretend that I was #10 dropping back and looking downfield for Gilliam or Rashad or White, or dumping off to Chuck Foreman in a quick screen. I’m not impartial in either regard, Tarkenton was, and remains, my greatest football hero (tho I could never scramble as well as he did, I was better as a pocket-passer).

But Thomas Jefferson is also one of my heros, and so is Ghenghis Khan :) . I’m not blind to any of their foibles, or their achievements. I’m a rational adult and I think my points through rather than blindly delivering incoherent devotional praise.

I calls ‘em as I sees ’em, biases and all, and if someone’s going to dump unfairly on the Vikings, or Fran Tarkenton, I’m going to stand up and refute them. If you want to dump on them, do it fairly and we’ll have the basis for a great discussion. There’s plenty of reasonable criticisms for the Vikes and for Tark.

No matter what you write, the fact remains that there ARE those here and elsewhere that seem to feel he has tarnished his image/credibility over the past months with his statements…I base this on the many comments I have read, and base my own feelings on careful evaluation of what I read/see…Perception is reality…no amount of arguments will change my opinion on Fran….

You, and others, have the right to your opinions, and to speak them. As do I. Never objected to that.

But I will say this, flat out…. if you honestly believe that ‘perception is reality’, there’s no point in our speaking about much of anything. That’s one of the most overwrought, abused cliches in our society, and it’s wrong. No wiggle room on this, no acceptance for any fool that thinks otherwise. I do have a bridge in Brooklyn that I’d like to sell to you, however. Cheap. Cash only, small unmarked bills please. :)

Being a HOFer does not give him instant credibility in my eyes when it comes to some of his comments

Then we disagree on that point. I’m ok with that. I give the HoF’ers more credibility than you do. I know that there’s a certain amount of politics that goes into the HoF selections, and that they’re under limitations that constrains the choices, but even so, I think those guys are the best of the best of the best, at what they did.

(In fact, they seem to support more what Miss Butterfly mentions in her post?)…

Miss Butterfly has the right to her opinion as well. Having also lived through that era, I don’t recall any of the complaints that she mentions, so I’m honestly hoping she has some substantiation for her opinion. Not because I want her to be right, or wrong, but because I want to know EVERYTHING about the Vikings and their history. Human foibles do not, to me, diminish people… they give them the opportunity to be greater despite those issues.

A side note, she mentioned ‘arrogance’ as if it were a bad thing in an NFL quarterback… I suggest that it’s not just a good thing, it’s a pre-requisite in a good NFL QB, and even more critical in a ‘gunslinger’. The recent worries about QB confidence are somewhat stomach-churning.

But for the last time I do not buy into what you are saying in defense of him….Nor do I agree with what he has said in large part…

I’m not saying that you have to. But if you slam Tark in a way that seems to me to be, unfair, expect that I’ll stand up to refute it if I see it. I don’t think you’re trying to force your opinion on me, and I’m not trying to force my one you; I’m just setting the balance straight. You and I are not the only ones reading our exchange. I think it would be of some value for others to see that there are two sides to the issue, not just one side of the opinion.

Isn’t it good that we can have such an open and public discussion on how we can agree to disagree? Can’t do this everywhere for sure…Moving on (this subject gas been discussed to death)…

Heh. Absolutely. You can’t do this in the Kingdom. :)

Let’s hope that Favre and all the other former Packers (Sharper before, Longwell now) that are on the Vikes continue to do well as Vikings…

Does it seem a little… pardon the expression, ‘incestuous’, sometimes, the way we end up with so many ex-players from other teams in our division? When we were playing the Chiefs for early practice, we saw a lot of Jared Allen and traded for him… they saw a lot of Thigpen and snatched him. It seems that when teams play each other a lot, they see more of the players they want, and they become prime acquisition targets…

Whether we get to the SB again this year or not and whether we win if we do get there does not matter, as we experienced four times already….The "ride" is still worth it? To me it is…

I think the ride is always worth it…. but I also want to go all the way. Badly. For me, football season pretty much ends with the last Viking game. I rarely even watch the Super Bowl if the Vikes aren’t in it (I think last year’s Super Bowl was the first I’d watched in 10 years). Once the Vikes are done with the year, I start focusing on the draft, FA, what it takes to give it a shot for the next year. I’m a one-team guy, lol.

I wonder how many HOFers we will hear about 30 years from now from this team, and I wonder how they will be commenting in 30 years on the young kids of 40 playing the game at that time LOL!

Even worse thought here….will we even be around to hear them when they do pull a Tark, and will we care/comprehend???? Hmmmmmmmm…

I think it’s endemic. I had one of those fathers who used to rant how about he had to walk to school 10 miles each day, in the snow, uphill both ways, lolol!! At least he’d wink at the end of it as he pushed me out the door :)

In the NFL’s case, however, we can look at the rules changes over the past 30 years and see how they’ve deliberately been created to change the game to make it more profitable. The NFL’s never been shy about admitting why the changes are going in, or the philosophy behind it; they want to be America’s Game, the greatest, most watched game in the country, and if they can pull it off, the world. Gotta love ambition.

I for one am just going to enjoy this game/season/year…as I hope we all can do! Have a great day in DC!

Absolutely. I hope you have a good day too :)