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Comparing 2009 to 1998


The Vikings find themselves at 8-1, and in control of their playoff destiny.  The last time the Vikings started out 8-1 was 1998, which was one of the great all-time Vikings teams.  Yeah, I know how I ended, but it was still a great team.  I wanted to compare this team to that team to see who, theoretically, is better.  Today I’ll do offense and special teams.  My next post will be defense and coaching staff.


Star-divide

QB:  Randall Cunningham vs. Brett Favre.  This position is eerily similar, in more ways than one.  Cunningham wasn’t even the starter at the beginning of the year, but took over when Brad Johnson got hurt against the St Louis Rams early in the year.  Favre wasn’t even on the roster come training camp, but came in and was anointed the starter upon his arrival.  Both players are or were in the twilight of their career, and both are having/did have a late career renaissance.  Who’s better?  Statistically, it’s Cunnigham, but Favre brings that ‘we won’t lose’ swagger to the team, nad he did it right away, and he’s having one of his best statistical seasons in his hall of fame career.  In my opinion, the ’98 squad didn’t really develop that attitude until the Randy Moss coming out party in Lambeau on Monday Night.  I’d give the slightest of edge to the 2009 squad on this position, but by a whisker.

 

RB:  Robert Smith/Leroy Hoard/Chuck Evans vs. Adrian Peterson/Chester Taylor/Nafahu Tahi.  Instinct says the 2009 squad is better because of Peterson, but dig a little deeper, and you can make a very legitimate argument for the ’98 team.  Taylor and Peterson are averaging 117 yards per game, Hoard and Smith average 115.  Receiving?  Slight edge to the ’09 guys, but by only by about 13 yards, or one first down.  Robert Smith was the speed guy, LeRoy Hoard was the power guy, and Evans was a phenomenal blocker.  Peterson is the best combination of speed and power to hit the NFL (or a defensive back) since Walter Payton, and Taylor is the consummate ‘role-player’ veteran who can catch the ball and pass block second to none.  And if you need a yard and a half on a dump off pass, Nafahu Tahi is your man.  Again, I’m going to take the 2009 group, but only by a whisker. 

 

Receivers:  Randy Moss/Cris Carter/Jake Reed/Andrew Glover vs. Bernard Berrian/Sidney Rice/Percy Harvin/Visanthe Shiancoe.  Um, with all due respect to the 2009 guys, this really isn’t very close.  Sidney Rice is having a breakout year, Percy Harvin has the ability to score every time he touches the ball, Bernard Berrian is a solid deep threat, and Shiancoe is a favorite red zone target, but other than maybe Shiancoe, I wouldn’t take any 2009 receiver over their 1998 counterpart.  If you want to argue Rice over Jake Reed, I could listen to that argument--if Rice was the #3 receiver.

 

Offensive Line:  Todd Steussie/Randall McDaniel/Jeff Christy/ Davis Dixon/Korey Stringer vs. Bryant McKinnie/Steve Hutchinson/John Sullivan/Anthony Herrera/Phil Loadholt.   I’ll take Steussie over McKinnie (this was the pre false start days for Stew), McDaniel over Hutch (there’s only two guards in team history better than Hutch, Ed White and McDaniel), Christy over Sully, Dixon over Herrera based on run blocking ability, and Stringer over Loadholt, although Loadholt has been very impressive at times.  The ’98 squad was a veteran group with three All-Pros (Steussie, McDaniel, and Christy) and two very strong vets in Stringer and Dixon.  The ’09 team has Hutch and McKinnie, but a lot of inexperience on the right side.  The ’09 group is by no means bad; in many ways they’ve out-performed their expectations, it’s just that they’re not as good from tackle to tackle as the ’98 team.

 

Special Teams:  Gary Anderson/Mitch Berger/David Palmer vs. Ryan Longwell/Chris Kluwe/Percy Harvin/punt returner of the week.  It’s a shame that Gary Anderson’s career is remembered for one field goal he missed as opposed to all the ones he made for the Vikings, but it is what it is.  Longwell has been as good as Anderson, with his only miss coming from a block against San Francisco.   Berger  is better than Kluwe, and Percy Harvin is as exciting a returner the Vikings have had since…David Palmer.  But Harvin’s leaps and bounds better than Palmer, and I’d take him over anyone the Vikes have had returning kicks.  But Palmer is a much better punt returner than either Darius Reynaud or Jaymar Johnson, so Palmer wins that battle.

 

Just wondering what you guys think.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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Darius Reynaud was a stud at the beginning of the season before he got hurt, and would have had a big game against the lions if there weren’t so many penalties, He had a nasty return to about the 50 but it was negated.

by lioninacoma on Nov 17, 2009 5:44 PM CST reply actions  

im so glad Reynaud is back

he is explosive on punt returns, usually gets close or past mid field on most of the ones he returns

Vikings 4 the superbowl

by RaysOfHope on Nov 18, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

QB – I knew when we traded Johnson, we were in trouble. Cunningham seemed to be the type of QB that would have a great year, a good one, then decent then gone. And that became the fact with him. I would rather have Favre due to is longer and much more consistent play over the years.

RB – A tough call as I always loved Smith and love A.P., so I will base this down to injuries. Smith had alot of them and I may be off a little, I think he had one healthy year, the year he set the then rushing record for the Vikings. Between Taylor and Hoard, pure toss up. I don’t think you could go wrong with either one backing up A.P. now or Smith of back then. I would give the edge to Tahi for 3rd.

WR – Rice has finally matched Carter at that point in his career. Harvin, not yet, but I think in a few years as well could match Moss too. I liked Glover then, but definitely love Shiancoe now. Yeah, I know he isnt much of a blocker, but has that really hurt our O any? Carter/Rice (toss up), Moss and Shiancoe

O-line – Wow, which way to argue here? This one is a definate hard one to call and IMO you could not go wrong either way. Yes, there is a lack of experience on our right at the moment, but to this point, other then a few gaff’s, they have been good. I would give a slight, and I mean slight nod to the ’98 crew for experience, but in a few years, I bet it would be a dead heat.

S.T. – You know, Anderson and Longwell are a sure bet either way. Yeah, Anderson missed THE field goal, but is it his fault the Vikings lost? No way. The whole team choked on that one. The whole team get’s the blame, not Anderson. I do get tired of hearing how it was Anderson’s fault and his only. B…..F’in…..S.! Stop making one guy the fall guy when the whole team should be chastisized. Berger hands down. Palmer was good, Harvin better so Harvin on this one.

"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
"That is the craziest sonofabitch I ever saw, how many more like him do you think are up there?"
"We have clearance Clearance. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"

by VikesFaninNM on Nov 17, 2009 7:22 PM CST reply actions  

You nailed it about QB
I knew when we traded Johnson, we were in trouble. Cunningham seemed to be the type of QB that would have a great year, a good one, then decent then gone. And that became the fact with him. I would rather have Favre due to is longer and much more consistent play over the years.

I always thought the Vikes traded the wrong QB after the ‘98 season. I loved Randall in ’98, but he really had that catching lightning in a bottle aura about him that year. Don’t know if they woul’ve gotten a first round pick for him like they did Brad Johnson, but if they had Brad Johnson maybe they would’ve gotten over the hump the next year. Tough to say.

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by Ted Glover on Nov 17, 2009 10:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Think your right on...

Except with the Peterson Payton comparison. Payton didn’t dance as much as Sayers, but he wasn’t all that physical – not AD physical (think Jim Brown, and if you won’t buy that, E. Dickerson).

by LoveHate on Nov 17, 2009 7:28 PM CST reply actions  

I thought Payton was very physical,

more physical than Dickerson, but below Earl Campbell. Jim Brown was before my time.

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by Ted Glover on Nov 17, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions  

give me the 98 Oline

but 09 on the rest

A bird in the hand is worth about 10.99 at KFC and makes me lick my chops
Yummy!!!!!

by kdog69 on Nov 17, 2009 9:55 PM CST reply actions  

Even receivers?

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by Ted Glover on Nov 17, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Think about what AP could have done behind that 98 OLine……scarry stuff. 2k would definitely not be out of the question…

We are the vikings.......resistance is futile.

by Hoss-Drone on Nov 25, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Hard to disagree

Although I’d call the McDaniel/Hutch comparison a push.

And as for the running backs If the Vikings had used Hoard more to set up 3rd and shorts and for late game clock control think we might have been an even better team overall back then. But even then it’s hard to top Peterson, he’s like a Robert Smith/Leroy Hoard lovechild.

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 17, 2009 10:14 PM CST reply actions  

LOL

Oh God, that’s just so wrong, talk about trying to block that mental picture!

"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
"That is the craziest sonofabitch I ever saw, how many more like him do you think are up there?"
"We have clearance Clearance. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"

by VikesFaninNM on Nov 17, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Only reason McDaniel is already in.

and I mean ONLY reason I gave it to McDaniel is because McDaniel is in the Hall of Fame. Hutch has a good shot to get there, but yeah, you can’t go wrong with either guy.

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by Ted Glover on Nov 17, 2009 10:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Imagine if we had Favre in '98

I think the rest of the guys weren’t in the league at that point.

by medicineball on Nov 18, 2009 12:00 AM CST reply actions  

The teams match up well

Nice job comparison/analysis…

When you consider the strong points from both teams to those of (‘09/’98), you can see although small variances by position/O/D/ST, they actually at the end of the day are very close….Either team could take it all the way…

We already know about ‘98, let’s see what we find out about the current team…Swagger, skill, drive is there, and ability to come back/get their stuff together and make plays/get points…numerous pro-bowl caliber players, and a schedule that while not easy, is not too daunting/insurmountable….

I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...

by vikingfanfrom afar on Nov 18, 2009 6:11 AM CST reply actions  

Give it to the 98 line.

I have to give the edge to the 98 O-Line. They were the sweetest to watch on run plays. The lanes would open up as if Moses parted them himself. It was the only year in which you watched a game and said "This is the best Team in the entire NFL. No ifs ands or butts.

Our present team still has youth issues on the O-Line and the run game is weaker because of this. Give this line 1-2 years together and I think we match 98. Now don’t get me wrong. This O-Line is great at pass protection. 98 line didn’t have to be as good as this one. Brett is a touch slower in the backfield.

Hear is the difference in these two teams. Everyone knew the Vikes would win the Superbowl with the "98 team. Everyone hopes the "09 team will win the Superbowl.

Good Post MilCard

by lifelongvike on Nov 18, 2009 6:52 AM CST reply actions  

Every one knew the Vikings would win the SB in 98?

Unless they changed something I’m pretty sure we lost in the ZChampionship game. But other than that you make a lotta sense

Purple Haze is the worlds greatest Natural Resource.

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Nov 18, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Rice = Carter?

Are you absolutely nuts? There is no way Rice is in the same league as Chris Carter. Do you remember some of the miracles he pulled down? One handed catch with two tippy toes in the field? He didn’t just do this once he did it ALL THE TIME! Heck I think Moss learned a lot from Chris Carter on how to keep his hands soft and snag balls out of the air.

Ok, sorry for the rant. Personally, I think Carter was one of the best of all time, and I don’t see Rice hitting that spot any time soon. Albiet he is a very good receiver now.

The line has to be 98 there were three perenial probowlers sitting on it and Cunningham had incredible amounts of time sitting behind them, plus Tice was a great line coach.

I would give the nod to running backs in 09 because Peterson is such a beast and Taylor is the man. Smith had rediculous speed, but didn’t have the ability of Peterson to make people regret tackling him. And Taylor is a better pass catcher than Hoard was.

Special Teams is a complete push to me. I think Longwell has a better leg than Anderson did at that stage of his career, we didn’t really make him push to many long FG’s in. Harvin is a beast of a return man and I agree Kluwe is not quite in the same league as Berger yet, but give him some more time.

Wasn’t Kliensauser the fullback in 98?

I think Bret is a LARGE improvement over Cunningham. Not because of arm strength, or completion percentage but because he’ll manage the game better. I truly beleive the 98 team would have been better off if they had laid off the quick score routine and pounded the ball a bit to let the defense rest. Didn’t matter much in the regular season but I think it killed them in the post season.

by Grime on Nov 18, 2009 8:58 AM CST reply actions  

!=

I think he was just saying Rice and Carter occupied the same spot on the depth chart in their respective years. Not that they equal each other in ability. Although due to his tenure and status as the second greatest receiver of all time Carter probably was still listed as our #1 receiver in spite of Randy’s production. Similarly it’s becoming quite obvious Sidney should be rated above BB on the depth chart as well.

Berrian may need to renegotiate his contract next year. He’s is WAY overpaid.

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 18, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Great points

Very solid post.

As for Kleinsasser, he was drafted in ’99.

by medicineball on Nov 25, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

The most significant difference is our D...

I personally don’t think any WR tandem will ever be better than Carter/Moss, and I believe that if we had today’s D in ‘98 we would have taken the Lombardi. We now have a legit championship defense, a QB that won’t choke (like Randall did in the 2nd half of that "98 NFC Championship), and we have as much raw talent as any roster in the league in the last 10 years. We just need to truly show up when it matters.

by Jshore on Nov 18, 2009 12:59 PM CST reply actions  

I agree

In reality our offense was better in 98 pretty much all around. The main difference in the two teams will be when you look at the defense and game management. If Green had managed games better I don’t think our D would have looked half as bad as it did that year. But a lot of our drives ended in a TD and only taking about a minute to do. I remember one game where the opposing team had posession of the ball pretty much twice of what Minnesota had and we still beat them.

Also, and I’m not sure on this but didn’t we have issues in the red zone that year? (I’m probably getting this mixed up with something else though.

by Grime on Nov 18, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Both teams are very similar in their makeup

And if their seasons end in a similar way, this site is going to be down one co-writer. I’m pretty sure I won’t be able to contribute to the site after shaving my body with a push mower.

by Eric J. Thompson on Nov 18, 2009 3:21 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

lol

Make it a big one I think a lot of us would like to be under it…

by Grime on Nov 18, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Mental Image...

ericj69, you’ve forced me to form a mental picture and it ain’t pretty…

by purplegrey on Nov 18, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

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