Four More Years of Chilly
The Vikings and Brad Childress have agreed to a contract that will keep Mr. Noodle in Minneapolis through 2013. The numbers aren't finalized, but it sounds like he'll get between $4 million and $5 million a year. Not bad for someone who's never won a playoff game. Personally, I was really, really hoping we'd wait and see how this year played out before we locked up Childress for the long term. But what do you guys and gals think?
8 months ago
Eric J. Thompson
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I neautral with it
I guess im fine with this. No problems
P.S: I beat you to the story. lol
Purple Haze is the worlds greatest Natural Resource.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Nov 19, 2009 3:04 PM CST reply actions
NICE!
Even though he does have alot of conservative play calls..Chilly Really isn’t that bad of a coach.
Good to have Childress on board the longship for the next several years
Now let’s TCB and go play good football against the Seahawks!
by medicineball on Nov 19, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
It's true
I’ve been one of Chili’s harshest critics, but I should point out, he’s no Les Steckel, or Tom Cable, or any number of god awful coaches that have disgraced an NFL sideline.
But I really would have liked to see the season play out first. He was under contract for another year already so this seem very premature.
I hope Chili proves me wrong about him. Or I hope Zygi is OK spending money like it’s going out of style; signing all the top talent in the league to continue making Childress look good. Hell, I’d have no problem with both. It would be a fine dynasty worthy of the title “The Purple Reign”.
Skol Vikes!
A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.
I slightly dissagree with your viewpoint
You make it seem as if Wilf simply throws cash at any big name player available like a Dan Snyder. I say this is not true. You have to bet your butt on the fact that in every personel decision, buth Chilly and Spielman are heavily envolved. Thus, we actually go out and get great talent via free agency instead of overpaid big name FA regardless of cost/team need. See- Jared Allen, Steve Hutch, V Shiancoe, Berrian, M. Williams (really average and paid accordingly) and so on.
The point I am trying to make is that aside from the ego driven T Jack draft pick (I can make a QB out of anyone!), Chilly has really made excellent personnel decisions and thus put a core of good to great players around him to allow what we can only imagine the true vision of the KAO to finally appear. You simply cannot argue with 6-10, 8-8, 10-6 and NFC North Champs in 3 years. Plus, he got the Silver Fox to dust off the cleats and we are now witness to one of the greatest Vikings offenses of all time. Yeah I said it.
by Jepp The Viking on Nov 19, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
overpaid Vikes
JA and Hutch, although top-notch players, received the richest contracts ever given to a defensive player and a guard, respectively. They can’t be considered bargains, although it was money well spent, at least comparatively.
Chester Taylor (especially once he became a backup), Shiancoe, M. Williams, Bobby Wade, and a few other players like that were overpaid by the Vikes because they were seen as “their guys” who ratcheted the total payroll to the 3rd highest in the NFL in 2006 and the 2nd highest in 2008.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the latter half of the season and the playoffs. I’m hoping for the best, and certainly with such a talented team, including a Hall of Fame QB and huge payroll, Childress has no excuse for falling short of a Super Bowl Championship this year. Anything less is a bust of a season.
none of those guys you named were overpaid. allen and hutch were the only ones to make big money and they deserve it in my opinion. the rest make decent money and are decent players. shank may actually be underpaid if he keeps playing at his current level. he’s one of the top te’s in the game this year and last year but he isn’t one of the highest paid.
+1 on the last section tho!
by iseepurplepeople on Nov 20, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Even if not grossly overpaid, not bargains
The Chargers spent about $5.6M on their top 2 TEs in 2008.
Kleinsasser: $3.85M (8th)
Shiancoe: $3.2M (11th, behind Todd Heap and Vernon Davis, more than Z. Miller, C. Cooley, J. Shockey, Dallas Clark who is 3rd in receptions and 5th in rec yards in the NFL right now…Heath Miller, Owen Daniels…)
And to think that Kleinsasser became an overpaid blocker because of the Shiancoe signing!
Chester Taylor’s salary ($3.75M) ranked 18th among NFL RBs in 2008.
Peterson’s salary ($2.43M) ranked 28th.
The Dolphins spent a little over $6M on 2 RBs, too, but the #2 RB was paid $1M less than Peterson. (Obviously, AP should be paid more, and I’d thought that they had renegotiated his contract for this year forward.)
Madieu Williams had the 5th highest salary of all safeties in the NFL last year.
Ben Leber’s salary ranked 39th among all LBs which is almost cracking the top 10 by specific position. The Madden makers think that there are way more than 39 LBs better than Ben Leber, for what it’s worth.
BB was the 3rd highest paid WR in 2008. Bobby Wade’s salary ranked 49th, which means they paid a 3rd WR as a below average #2…not terrible, but not a bargain by any means.
The problem with paying more than 1 player like JA or Hutch the most ever at their position (for JA, it was the richest contract ever given to any defensive player) is that the minute that the guy gets hurt or underperforms or declines, it is entirely too costly to do anything about it. That’s not to say that they are the worst moves ever, but there is a very high risk of not being competitive for a couple of years after the SB window shuts on this current roster. If they win the SB this year or next year, then it will all be worth it, and it may not seem worthwhile later if they don’t win it now.
by this logic we would never sign anyone. if we give this guy a dollar and he gets hurt we’re out a dollar! it’s a game. anything can happen. you do your homework and take the risks and this team has done exceptionally well.
if you do it right and continue to do your homework, there is no ‘window’. look at indy. how many 10 win seasons have they had in a row? they’ve had injuries and declining players. when does their window close?
by iseepurplepeople on Nov 20, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
Indy?
They won a Super Bowl before their window closed…if it’s closed. The great thing about the Colts is that they never had many star players start to decline rapidly at the same time. By the time Marvin Harrison was out of town, Reggie Wayne was almost as good as Marvin had ever been and Anthony Gonzalez and Dallas Clark were still improving (Clark currently ranks 3rd in receptions and 5th in rec yards in the NFL, you know). The Colts could win the SB this year! As long as Peyton Manning is there, they have a chance to be competitive.
These are the guys who are going to get old together: McKinnie, Hutch, K Williams (Pat before that), EJH, Winfield before that, AP. It will be very difficult to replace all of those players with similarly good talents within the next 2-5 years. And Favre will be gone in less than 2 years. Every draft must produce at least 2 starters, and each of them must be above average or better. The last 2-3 years of the window will be subject to another QB experiment…just the opposite of the Colts and Peyton Manning.
What?
First of all, he is spending money like Dan Snyder. We’re top three in payroll since Zygi took ownership. And I love him for it. Second of all, I won’t disagree that we’ve done a great job in free agency and the draft for which I give credit to Chili, Spielman, Studwell and lots of people who’s names I don’t know. If you’re judging Chili based on his personnel decisions fine, let’s sign him to be the GM and go find a better coach.
Thus, we actually go out and get great talent via free agency instead of overpaid big name FA regardless of cost/team need. See- Jared Allen, Steve Hutch, V Shiancoe, Berrian, M. Williams (really average and paid accordingly) and so on.
As far as being average and paid accordingly; according to Fox Sports M. Williams is making 8.7 million a year. The average salary of a Safety in the NFL is $500,000. The Bears offered to re-sign Berrian for $28 million the Vikings decided he was worth $42 million—he’s not. Those two aren’t Childress’ fault, we needed a safety and receiver and the Vikings rolled the dice—good teams do that from time to time and we’ve hit more then missed recently.
You simply cannot argue with 6-10, 8-8, 10-6 and NFC North Champs in 3 years.
Watch me. Tice took a worse team, with a hostile ownership situation, a decimated caoching staff and using creative accounting to get to the league minimum in payroll to a 9-7 record while losing our franchise QB. Childress took a better team with infinitely more support to a worse record for two years. We won the division after the Bears and Packers and Lions imploded making our division one of the weakest in the league. And that was in the second year of the best player in the NFLs career.
I just like to rate my coaches based on coaching, not personnel decisions (unless they have sole control of the team in that respect, which Chili doesn’t).
That’s a lot of words to say what I have in my signature.
A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.
Couldn't agree more
Your signature says it all. And Chili does not fit that bill in the least. He’s essentially riding on the tails of excellent management and I hope he spends a good portion of that new check taking Speilman et al out for dinner on more than one occasion. Its the least he can do considering he’d be no where at all without them.
It's better to have a coach who improves his team each year
Instead of putting the team in jeopardy to an unproven coach!
Why Do People Question The Vikings' Status?
by UnBannedVikingholic on Nov 19, 2009 3:11 PM CST reply actions
Obviously...
There is more to the coach than what we ‘see’.
The Wilf’s are rewarding him for what they ‘see’ and they see more deeply and broadly than we can on this topic.
It’s the owners’ call… and we’ve been very supportive of the ‘other’ spending we’ve seen by the owners.
Why would this be any different?
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 19, 2009 3:12 PM CST reply actions
Well, I wish I had read that comment in full
before I made my post below. Solid point.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
Are we sure?
I wonder if the WIlfs thought that a Super Bowl winning coach would command even more money, so this would be a bargain-hunting deal, assuming that said coach still manages to win a Super Bowl. If that was their thought process, then it kind of takes a turn for the much worse if the coach fails to win the Big One this year.
Super Bowl coaches
It seems winning a Super Bowl automatically instantly overvalues every player and coach involved. How many ex-SB MVPs are there out there that get big pay days based on their one good game? (Answer: Lots!). If Chili does win the SB his price will definitely skyrocket, but that still doesn’t necessarily mean he is a good coach. He might just end up being another Deion Branch, David Tyrell, Dexter Jackson, that CB from Dallas, ect.
You're right
There have been a few SB MVPs worth paying, like Kurt Warner and Hines Ward or whomever won it last time, but you are absolutely correct that a SB coach can still be terrible (George Siefert). Other times the coaches are actually good, too: Dan Reeves, Mike Holmgren, Bill Parcells, Marv Levy, Tony Dungy, Dick Vermeil…
Meh!
Im indifferent. Wonder what his performance incentives are. i like that he’s become more of a players coach and not such a hard ass all the time. He did bring the KAO to Minny and bagged his contract on Favre and drafted well. Looking for better clock mgmt and ability to put teams away, or as they say “Smell blood in the water, go for the throat!”
Skol Vikings!!
As per my post yesterday....
Should have waited till the off season.
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
"That is the craziest sonofabitch I ever saw, how many more like him do you think are up there?"
"We have clearance Clearance. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"
by VikesFaninNM on Nov 19, 2009 3:29 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Think so too...
What was the rush?
I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...
by vikingfanfrom afar on Nov 19, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
Bargain hunter
Wilfs probably thought that a SB Championship was imminent; therefore, lock down the coach now at a relative bargain. Of course, it may not turn out that way; therefore, it could be a bigger, long-term mess, too.
That's one thing in the Childress regime I have had NO problem with.
by Eric J. Thompson on Nov 19, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
The failure to put together a better defensive backfield around Winfield (inherited) is a big problem. It may not seem like it while beating cupcake teams (and even then a few times vs. poor teams, as evidenced by shootouts with SF and GB), but it will matter in the playoffs. And that’s just one reason.
You can’t be perfect at everything. Every team has its weaknesses and it just so turns out the defensive backfield is ours.
OK, but exactly what weakness has been fixed in the Childress era without relying on free agents?
RB: Chester Taylor AND high draft pick Adrian Peterson
QB: Brett Favre, and not Favre long.
OL: Steve Hutchinson
DL: Jared Allen
WR/TE: Bernard Berrian, Bobby Wade, V. Shiancoe
DB: the 3 positions filled during the Childress era are M. Williams (FA), C. Griffin, and Ty. Johnson.
A coach’s #1 job is probably to be a sound evaluator of the quality of talent on his roster. Then it is up to him to figure out if he can coach what he has up to speed or find viable replacements.
What’s wrong with free agents? I have no problem with the Vikings acquiring anyone on that list. And neither should Childress.
Nothing is wrong with free agents
but you can’t say that all of those positions were shored up because of Chilly’s great coaching. (Further up someone had commented about the excellent drafting.) His owner bought a bunch of talent scouted out by the personnel dept…and no real weakness on the roster has been fixed by draftees or excellent coaching. They have been patched with money.
Premature
Chilly has done a great job of roster replenishment through the draft and free agency, and he has developed a top offense and defense…BUT
His claim to fame was quarterback development, and he hasn’t done that, which resulted in a desperate plead and beg to Favre. Yes, it’s worked, and it’s been a memorable season so far, but what happens next year?
If Favre comes back, you would have to think it would be his last year, and they will need to find another QB. If Favre retires, you’re back at square one at the QB position when CHilly got here…no long term answer.
This is all moot if they win the SB, of course. I will lead the drive for a bronze statue of Chilly and Favre.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
His claim to fame was quarterback development, and he hasn’t done that
If coaches recieved Madden ratings as the players do (actually they might in the newer versions but I havent played in awhile), what would Chili’s highest ratings be?
Pregame planning? No.
In game decision making? Don’t think so.
Talent evaluation? Maybe, but no way to tell who is responsible for that.
Motivation? He sure doesn’t strike me as being very emotionally charging.
Creative playcalling? Hell no.
So what exactly does he do well enough to recieve this reward? What seperates him as outstanding from his peers? As odd as it may seem to say, all he does well is continue to improve our record every year. But I don’t know how much of that rests on him.
Four more years of Chilly -
Did Zygi wake up this morning and see his shadow?
More Chilly ...
Its funny how a weak coach go from everyone wanting him fired to the greatest coach of all time .. this dude has never won anything he is a sorry clone of Andy Ried .. He always win games during the season .. Get to the playoffs and stink up the place .. He make bad decisions when calling plays .. Damn he is lucky he works for a Cartoon character named Ziggy that has no clue how to run a football team … heaven help us viking fans for the next four years ..
by VikinginCalifornia on Nov 19, 2009 5:54 PM CST reply actions
What has changed?
What were we saying in June? What has changed?
Favre. Rice being dominant. Percy working out. AD being AD. The D being pretty solid.
It’s hard for me to believe that Chilly has had that much impact on our success so far.
We’ve had a pretty easy schedule so far. We all figured we should only lose a game or two by this point in the season.
Too soon to say Chilly deserves all of our 09 admiration for another few years.
by All'Aboard'The'Purple'Love'Boat on Nov 19, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
Favre makes up for a whole bunch of bad Chilly
I think that once Brett Favre actually does retire, Chilly’s coaching shortcomings will again be exposed for everyone to see. Right now, Favre makes up for a whole bunch of bad Chilly.
This is an assinine move.
Thinking that Chilly is the reason you guys are 8-1 is like thinking that Trent Dilfer is the reason why the Ravens won the Superbowl a few years ago.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 19, 2009 6:09 PM CST reply actions
Disagree...
Look at the body of work. And trust me, after watching him fight for Favre and remain persistent, I know who gets their way in the draft too…
1) 6-8 First season. Changed the whole team atmosphere—post Love Boat scandal etc. Starts building the team he wants. Running team. Control clock. Improve defense. Started building O-line with Steve Hutchinson signing. Brought on Chester Taylor. Drafted Chad Greenway, Ray Edwards, TJack (ok), Cedric Griffin. Good first draft!
2) 8-6 Second season. Starts building further. Adds the “franchise” even though Chester put up strong stats the year before. Keep in mind— he selects Peterson even though everyone and their brother wanted Brady Quinn. Drafts Sidney Rice, Tyler Thigpen (loses him), Brian Robison.
3) 10-6 Third season. Continues the building process. 4 of the 2008 draft picks are on the 2009 roster also – Tyrell Johnson, Guion, Sullivan, Jaymar Johnson. Makes playoffs. Plays Eagles at home with TJack (for lords sake) and is only down 2 points with 6 minutes+ remaining.
4) ?. Fourth season. Courts Favre to the end of the earth. Starts season 8-1. Drafts Percy. Loadholt, Asher Allen. Possible first round bye and/or home field throughout.
Now, let’s not also forget he also selected and added Mike Tomlin before losing him. Then added Leslie Frazier to replace Tomlin.
by PurpleJesus on Nov 19, 2009 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
6-8 First season.
8-6 Second season.
Aren’t you missing some games? Or was Chili on the inactive list for those?
Body of work?
1) You forgot that he had inherited a winning (9-7) team with the 9th total payroll and turned it into a losing team (6-10) with the 2nd highest payroll after the ownership had very generously opened the vault. Green and Tice never got that kind of love or money from the ownership. Really, ALL of the things that you attribute to Childress in your first point actually belong to Zygi and Spielman and Studwell and the personnel/scouting crews.
2) Were he really a QB guru, wouldn’t he have had better results with Quinn than we’ve seen in Cleveland? Tyler Thigpen turned in better numbers on one of the worst teams in the NFL by the time Tarvaris Jackson was still struggling to post a rating over 70. The best thing you wrote in your #2 was the addition of AP…and that was only made possible by underachieving to the tune of 6-10 in the previous year, so, again, there is no real reason attributable to Childress so far.
3) FINALLY, with the 3rd highest NFL payroll, manages to coach a 10-7 team which, aside from the QB and DB positions, had enough talent to contend for it all, and his stubbornness and ego had a lot to do with why the QB and CB positions weren’t as strong as they could have been and needed to be.
4) Begs a 1st ballot Hall of Famer to save his job. Enjoys a cupcake schedule, only going 1-1 vs. winning teams after 9 games at the time of this post, although SF surely would have beaten a Favre-less Viking team coached by Childress…and maybe the Ravens wouldn’t have needed another FG…and perhaps the Vikings would not have won a shootout vs. GB with a different QB…a losing record in the remaining games is possible. Sidney Rice breaks out, and even that could be mostly because of Favre and/or Spielman/Studwell/scouting rather than Childress.
Let’s not forget that Mike Tomlin probably should have been the head coach all along and that Leslie Frazier’s secondary has not ranked as well as Tomlin’s, despite the fact that DBs are Frazier’s area of specialty.
Childress will have a real body of work if his team is strong in the playoffs this year and/or wins the Super Bowl. Short of a Super Bowl victory, he should prove that he can coach without Favre before doubling his salary and putting the team on the hook for another 4 years.
i agree with your overall conclusion but there are some things you should consider while reaching that conclusion.
the new ownership basically wanted the team torn apart. the vikings had a bad image to clean up and they brought childress in to do just that. and he has done a very good job doing so. your points about payroll vs production have merit but it takes time to rebuild a team. you’re not going to improve a 9-7 team in one season when you have to get rid of most of the players from that time. so blaming chili for taking a 9-7 and turning it into a 6-10 team with a higher payroll doesn’t really fit since he was told to clean up the team.
this team is built to win now and on into the future and childress has been a big part of that. my only knock on the guys is that he reminds me of shottenheimer. a very good coach who fielded winning teams where ever he went but never had the killer instinct in the big games. that’s what i think we just locked ourselves into.
by iseepurplepeople on Nov 20, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
hmmmm...
well I wonder… if the ‘killer instinct’ comes with confidence in your team…
It’s not like Brad was a fiery D-Back in the league for several years before moving to coaching.
This guy is a life-long coach, all on the offensive side of the ball. He’s a calculator, run-it-by-the-numbers head coach. This year… he’s had the lead to lose (and almost has), managing a game like that is ‘by the numbers’ and I think he may be learning that is a recipe for disaster in this league.
I further believe that this team may be ‘holding back’, not showing our whole hand, ‘saving’ something (or someone) for the games in January and February…
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 20, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
By the numbers?
No set of numbers would have called Jeff Dugan’s number for a goal line run.
I can buy that Childress is making up %s in his head, but he also claims to be a chess player, which would account for other teams having more success by successfully predicting the Vikings’ likely move by the numbers. He also claims to be a fan of imposing his will on the other team, which is more of a brute ethic, a poor chess strategy, and nothing to do with numbers.
Dugan?
We were playing the Lions! We were trying things for future knowledge later in the year to see if they would work. Just like the reverse, etc.
You need to listen to “Favre Mic’d Up”. You can see where Favre is convincing Chilly of things like throwing to Sindey because no one can cover him and how Chilly is finally believing
This team is growing together in a lot of ways. I give Chilly credit for allowing Favre to help the whole team grow including himself.
What you said there
just proves that Childress needs to be taught how to win, and I’ll give Childress credit for being more flexible this year, but the question is whether he understands that being flexible and trusting his players is required EVERY year, especially after Favre retires.
I see it differently
I see him trusting Favre and opening up the offense. Doing that is a move we can both say is smart, no?
Conversely, I don’t see him trusting TJack yet and hence the more conservative play calling.
Heck look when Guss was QB, the offense was slightly more open than with TJack. To me, this shows Chilly is play calling within the QBs capabilities.
Look, I was one of the biggest complainers about the conservative play calling. However now that I see the three different ways that plays were called based on the QB I am now giving Chilly credit for this control.
OK
I don’t dispute that Childress seems to trust Favre; therefore, better playcalling. My point is that this seems temporary. Why couldn’t he trust his hand-picked guys before? How will he learn to trust non-HoF QBs after Favre’s retirement? None of the possible answers scream, “sign him to a big long-term deal now!”
He shouldn't trust the previous guys
That is what makes my point. Chilly gets my credit there.
Now, it has been clearly stated that Chilly benched TJack last year because he said he wa splaying “not to lose”. Chilly wanted him to take some shots. So, how is this not “trusting” your guys? He wanted to be slightly more aggressive except TJack wouldn’t do it. Then if you remember he came back in the AZ game and lit it up and won back his spot. No?
But will he trust anyone not named Favre?
I’ve never heard or read that Chilly wanted to be aggressive and Tarvaris Jackson overruled him (which would indicate at least 2 problems). Frerotte often played not to lose, too, just like several QBs who came and left in a span of only 3 years under Childress and Bevell.
The Cardinals had one of the worst pass defenses in the league last year (not unlike the SB Rams almost a decade ago).
It is still unclear as to whether he is capable of trusting (and coaching, really) a QB not named Favre or McNabb.
Based on what I saw against Seattle
I believe he will trust TJack. I hope we have enough games where TJack gets some playing time to earn the trust.
Yes, Dugan...
I can see you will become a believer ONLY WHEN 100% of the playcalls succeed.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 20, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions
not with Dugan...
He has been very good on getting the 1st down for the Vikings…
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 20, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions
9 attempts
is a small sample size if I’ve ever seen one. It also fails to differentiate between 3rd and everyone knows it’s a run up the middle vs. 2nd and short, when most Ds are careful not to allow a deep pass.
and yet...
those 1st downs are there. The sample size suggest that his FB runs – under 5 yards are ‘situational’
but whatever… you will never be moved off your opinion(s), regardless of the ‘sample size’.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 20, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
The 1st downs are there
…but who were they against, and in what situations? In a sample size as small as 9 of anything over 3 years, those are legitimate questions.
Tahi was a RB in college and is a stout guy. He seems like a much better option with more running power in short-yardage situations. He only has 8 rushing attempts in 3 years.
That means that someone is an even better option, at least in the coaching staff’s opinion (AP and CT).
Football Outsiders has a stat which would have been helpful except they require 20 rushing attempts in 1 season to consider it worthy of mention in their “other” chart. 9-17 attempts in 3 years is nothing.
He strays with Favre based on trust
He didn;t let TJack do that. This shows a coach who knows how to call a game.
Believe me, I hated the conservative play calling but now I see he can open up when trust is there.
Enjoy it this year and maybe next
because he has not been very good about trusting QBs not named Favre, and he will need to do that in order to succeed. (And again that begs the question of why hasn’t he trusted his hand-picked QBs?)
See my other response
He specifically benched TJack because TJack was playing not to lose and Chilly wanted him to take chances. If this isn;t trust, I don’t know what is.
Chilly is no Schottenheimer
Yeah, the ownership wanted to dismantle the team, and they did, but then they went shopping for some of the biggest brand names and cranked the payroll all the way up to 2nd in the NFL! It’s not like he was given the keys to the stripped-down remains of 2005, but rather his hand-picked crop of 2006. Moss was already gone. Culpepper was traded. Very few major pieces were dismantled beyond that.
Marty Schottenheimer was a much better coach, and I had the pleasure of watching his Chiefs up close. He turned every team he coached into a consistent winner for several seasons with the exception of his brief stint in Washington. Historically, he had always been a bit too run-heavy (as is Childress), and players let him down. The Chiefs would have gone to a Super Bowl had their kicker made just ONE of 3 FG attempts. The Browns would have made it to a Super Bowl were it not for Ernest Byner’s untimely fumble (AP is the most fumble-prone back of his time, coincidentally). Schottenheimer believed in the play-action pass and used it masterfully. Childress barely called them in 2006-2007 at all. Players often had their best seasons under Schottenheimer with a few exceptions, but Donovan McNabb has fared better without him and some of his players have disappointed considerably. It’s not even close.
I think Childress is probably closer to George Seifert than to Marty Schottenheimer.
I see
Shottenheimer gets a “bye” because of mistakes yet Chilly gets no credit for taking a team to the playoffs who was within 2 points and driving with 6+ minutes in the game! And he did it with TJack, not McNabb. Then, because of some missed tackling assignemtns Westbrook breaks a 67 yard screen for a TD that changed the game.
I get that you don’t like Chilly but be fair. Miscues or mistakes happen to all teams and it is part of the growing experience Unfortunately, as I see it, Shottenheimer always had something or someone to blame except himself it seems…. (Did you forget how Shottenheimer took the most talented team at 14-2 in SD and still couldn’t win in the playoffs?)
Mistakes
Lin Elliott’s bad kicks and Ernest Byner’s fumble are not mistakes that he made.
Yes, Marty gets a pass for now since he was able to prove himself time after time. Being fair includes respecting how much longer Schottenheimer coached with success in the NFL. The Martybolts lost a close game to the Patriots dynasty that they had led for over 3 quarters.
I actually like Schotty
I was just using that as sarcasm as it related to Chilly.
Frankly I was never a big Chilly fan, but I have begun to realize that it is he who is building this team and he gets who he wants. This is witnessed by the Favre chase and the fact Chilly went down to check out Harvin as well. These all show these are Favre dotting his i’s and crossing his t’s.
Harvin visit
Actually, there was speculation that Childress went to FL to try to find reasons NOT to draft him. Andy Reid hadn’t yet broken his little rule about avoiding WRs in the first round.
Not speculation
As reported by Peter King, among many others, Childress himself said that he wanted to smell Percy Harvin’s car. There is no reason on Earth to go to that length of trouble 3 days before the draft after the front office has thoroughly vetted him unless one is looking for anything as small as a whiff of a reason NOT to draft a guy.
not according to this author...
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 20, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions
In a press conference
…Childress admitted that he wanted to smell Percy’s car. When has a coach ever cared about that? Many articles noted that the Vikings’ front office had already vetted Harvin quite a bit before Childress decided to visit only 3 days before the draft. That’s 2 things that don’t happen unless one is looking for excuses to not draft a guy.
Let's be fair. How soon we forget...
1) I agree with iseepurple. They wanted the whole culture changed. They had to break apart the team…. Don’t you remember Daunte being a pain in the butt and all but begging to be traded?
2) We might have seen better results but his assessment of him was dead on. He has not shown he is a NFL starter. His arm is way too weak and this is proven by the fact he can’t drive the ball down field. How many balls has he thrown over 10+ yards? He did select TJack and his skills are NFL level with one exception. And that is where I think Chilly missed because TJack’s “intelligence” at the line is severely lacking and it is for that reason I believe TJack will never be a top level QB. Also, he did select the kid from Coastal Carolina (Thigpen) and if we were able to keep him I think we wouldn’t be needing another QB in a year or two.
3) I don’t think we had “contention level” talent last year. We were still building “long term” and I believe he needed to give TJack a chance last year to gain the experience. Heck TJack did great at the end of the season until the playoff game—let’s not forget that. I think he earned the chance to be the starter in the playoffs, especially if we wanted to know if he could be our long term QB of the future.
4) Speculation…. I don’t think he was in danger of losing his job with or without Favre. Certainly Favre got him his contract extension sooner but I believe he sold Wilf on the long term plan and that was to build with youth for the long haul. He also recognized we now have the talent with Percy etc. and I give him all the credit in the world for his persistence and finally getting Favre.
As for your stats against teams with a winning record, we outplayed the Steelers and came within a eyelash of beating them on their home field even with the first miscue. Besides that, GB is a winning team if you remove the games they played the Vikes. So using your argument, I believe we are 3-1 against playoff teams with the lone loss coming against the Steelers on their turf.
Tomlin wasn’t considered a head coaching candidate at that time. Heck he wasn’t even a D-Coordinator at that point!
Lastly, I guess by your view, Belicheck should prove he can win without Brady. Dungee needs to prove he can win a SB without Manning and so on…. Doesn’t make sense… Chilly has done nothing but build a young talented SB caliber team with very good drafts each year. And doing so while changing the whole team culture, all in under 4 years!… Besides, why are you worried how the Wilf’s spend their money? If Chilly fails in the coming years, they will let him go regardless of the extension. Many teams do that, not just the Vikings. You can’t let a coach go into the last year of a contract without an extension. And more than anything, there is no way they were going into the playoffs with that hanging over their heads… it just doesn’t happen. Not here, not anywhere.
I've forgotten nothing.
1) So they broke down a cheap winner and bought even more and better talent that Childress couldn’t pilot to respectability. How does that change anything? Tice and any other decent coach could have dismantled that team and won with better talent.
2) I don’t know which QB you’re talking about, but it can’t be Daunte, ha.
3) The Vikes had the 3rd highest payroll in the NFL. Now if that isn’t enough to contend, then there is either a coaching problem or a personnel/scouting problem or both. Players like Hutch and Jared Allen clearly are at or near the top of their positions, and many others are seen as worth it, so that leaves bad coaching decisions. Failing to bring in a QB better than Gustav last year was the #1 reason that the team did not contend, and that falls squarely on Childress’s shoulders.
4) Brad Childress was definitely in danger of losing his job. Every problem squad on the roster (QB, OL, DL, DB, RB) has been patched with $FA (including 2 of the biggest contracts ever given to players at those positions), not by coaching/development. It means that he’s been given top-notch talent across the board, as evidenced by top-3 payrolls, and still failed to lead one of the top 5 teams (not counting this year because it’s incomplete with tougher games ahead).
GB was a loser last year, and they will be this year as well.
Finally, Belichick has already proven that he can win without…Drew Bledsoe, the then-prototype of pocket passers who had just earned the biggest contract ever awarded to any player in NFL history (and had taken the franchise to their most recent SB). Bill Belichick’s Tarvaris Jackson was a 6th rounder named Tom Brady. That’s the way the Childress story was supposed to go, too. If Matt Cassel quietly has a nice season with that awful cast of Chiefs, then it will be even more cred to Belichick’s coaching. How long will it be before Chilly can flip a good QB picked in the 6th or 7th round for a 2nd round pick? Any attempt to compare what little Childress has done to Beliichick’s body of work is completely unfair, not to mention RIDICULOUS BEYOND BELIEF.
just too bitter...
1) How can you even say that? We are 8-1, headed to 10-1 and a minmimum #2 seed in the playoffs. ?? >>>> Can’t pilot a team? >>> Ridiculous statement.
2) Quinn, if you look at your # 2 original statement.
3) If you plant flowers in sh*t, it still smells like…. Chilly has built this team as he wanted. This is witnessed by his persistence with Favre and his due dilligence on Harvin. No one else did that. Not Spielman. Not anyone. This is Chilly’s team….
Who the heck did you want last year for QB? They tried to get Quinn and were turned down. He tried but there wasn;t anyone falling in there lap.
Only now we are finally staffed for a run. Not two years ago and certainly not last year with TJack at the helm.
4) I don’t even know what you are talking about here. TJack compared to Brady isn’t even a discussion. I already said that TJack has the skills just not the game time mentality.
And no, GB won’t be a losing team this year so you are off there too.
It's like this...
1) Hate Brad Childress
2) Any opinion/stat that points to Brad Childress being successful, refer to #1.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 20, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a realist
1) 6-10 record with the 2nd highest payroll = failed to pilot a very talented team to respectability.
2) Yes, if Childress is really this great QB guru, then Quinn would have better stats as a Viking. Tarvaris Jackson is missing accuracy and instincts, not just “intelligence”. The fact that he let a rookie like Tyler Thigpen go to keep Kelly Holcomb for or Brooks Bollinger for 1 year after telling the world via press conference how great Thigpen was (which generated enough competing interest that the Vikings were unable to sign TT to the practice squad) is another series of poor judgments regarding quarterbacks.
3) Technically, all plants grow in…and you obviously don’t recall the “fish and roses” commercial from several years ago. It is not just Chilly’s team because Chilly’s team would still have Billy McMullen starting at WR.
4) Bill Belichick also picked up Vinny Testaverde when nobody wanted him and went 11-5 with a 1-1 postseason record with him. Testaverde went on to have a long career and 2 Pro Bowl appearances. Childress should be able to top that with so much more talent than Belichick had 15 years ago, and we’ll see what happens, both in the rest of this season and beyond.
It’s not just the QB situation (supposedly Childress’s specialty) that has been mismanaged. Mewelde Moore had posted 2 of the top 8 punt return averages in team history in 2005 and 2006. In 2007, Childress preferred Bobby Wade’s 7.0 average to Mewelde Moore’s 10.0+ average over 2005-2007 to Wade, who had never reached 10.0 up to that point.
Bill Belichick got run out of town in Cleveland.
And nobody gives much thought to sixth round compensatory draft picks made in conjunction with Scott Pioli (the Pats were torn between Brady and Tim Rattay, of all players, on that one). If Bledsoe doesn’t get hurt, Brady would have still been bench sitting.
Insofar as free agents are concerned, the only bad decision was giving Berrian number one WR type money when he’s nowhere close to being worth it. We’ve all had our differences with Darrell Bevell but overall Chilly has assembled a fine staff from Leslie Frazier down to WR coach George Stewart who has done a fine job in developing Sidney Rice into a top drawer talent.
And if you’ll remember, all the “smart guys” were wondering why the Vikings would choose AD so high having just signed CT the year before and with scouts still not sold on AD’s durability.
by VikingBillArlingtonVA on Nov 22, 2009 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
Belichick
Yeah, he was run out of Cleveland despite giving them their first great season and hope in some time. Was it wise, though? Doesn’t look like it.
While in Cleveland, Belichick made another transition: from Kosar to Testaverde (and an 11-5 season, 1-1 postseason in 1994). There was no 1,000 yard receiver or 1,000 yard rusher on the 1994 Browns, just to be clear, and they were only above average as an offense. He must have accounted for a fair amount of the gap between the talent level he had and the 12-6 results. 2 years after that season, Bill had been kicked out of town and Vinny went to his first of 2 Pro Bowls (only 1 with the Browns/Ravens in 1996), so Brady and Cassell weren’t the first times that he had chosen a QB that nobody wanted at that point and had some success with him. The year after he left, the team won half as many games (3, same as the year before he’d arrived). I don’t see how the Browns/Ravens got the better end of letting Belichick go. It took several years of awful teams, high draft picks, and 2 more coaching changes before the Browns/Ravens won a playoff game again.
Sidney Rice went to a special elite WR camp this year, one that sounded a lot like the one Cris Carter used to run years ago (maybe he still does) and got a HoF QB throwing to him. I’m sure he’s really this good, but Childress and his staff may account for less than 50% of Rice’s success.
Leslie Frazier has led defenses that couldn’t stop the pass for 3 years. As soon as the Vikings play a real opponent this year, it could get ugly. Let’s hope that happens at least once before the playoffs so that some adjustments can be made.
A case could be made that other players such as Darrelle Revis, just to name one example, could have improved the team more than AP did at that time, and AP’s durability is still a real concern as long as he’s still in the game while leading the Seahawks by 21-28+ in the 4th!
Congratulations TSSC
You win the “Analogy of the Day” Award!
by Eric J. Thompson on Nov 20, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
Less upset than I'd guessed I'd be
Maybe the team saves some $ if the they win the SB this year, even after eating the last year and a half if things turn sour.
Were I a player on the roster, I would definitely feel degraded, underappreciated, and possibly in need of a shower the minute I learned that Childress was rewarded with this contract because management thought that it was all because of him. I wonder how many players are going to demand new deals now that it’s obviously open season for contract negotiations from the top down.
Still don't like him
I think its Farve that has grown on us .. He is the air freshner that covers the stink of the real Childress
by VikinginCalifornia on Nov 19, 2009 8:55 PM CST reply actions
What has Chilly
Done to deserve this,got Favre to play this year for us,was it really Chilly who turned the Vikes around.What happens when Favre does his I am going to retire maybe,yea I am retiring,maybe not cycle.Then of course not wanting do the camp thing happens.
We still dont have a Q.B. long term yet,and frankly theres still a lot of games left to play.I dont want to see the Rack up em points the Pats did a few years ago,but would like to see games put away by the 3rd qtr.The too cute plays against the Lions though refreshing should be reserved for pre-season.
To tell the Truth it looks like to me that Favre is calling the shots on the field,thus making better calls on OFF.Our Def still has probs Tackling,run stopping has dropped a few notches,way to soft between the markers on pass plays.
It seemed like the Vikes played as if all they had to do was show up againts the lions.Over confidence can lead to a loss very quickly,granted they are playing well, it can come to bite.
Is it just me or does A.D. seem a little hesitant while running,almost as if he is thinking just a tad too much.And wats up with Berrian,seems like he cant even catch a cold latley.Penaltys just way too high last game,granted a couple of phantom calls but still rust showing when it should be polished.
These are things a H.C. should address,and put in order,before the next game.I think it is way too early to grant an extension but its already done.Lets hope something good comes out of it.
Childress had better KISS
favre’s ass for this one….I mean, Great coaches have great players, and vice versa, but really…….wait until the season is over. One bad screw up in the playoffs could change our minds!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Nov 19, 2009 11:12 PM CST reply actions
To the wait til the offseason crowd...
…so what? One of the least secure jobs in all of sports is that of a head coach. Even with the contract he can be gone any day. That’s just ow head coaching jobs are. All this amounts to is one less thing for Chilly to worry about so, hopefully, his in the moment decision making becomes just a tad better (not saying he’s doing too bad of a job, but I still trust Brett Favre calling plays more at this point)
As much as I don’t necessarily like him as a coach, I am a big believer in organizational stabilty. It’s better to stick with a mediocre staff/player and hope he gets better (or at least not worse) than scuttle the whole ship and start over. The chance of eventually becoming competitive again after starting over seems to be far less than just rolling with the punches and keeping everything intact. New systems are a often take years to perfect.
VikinginCalifornia
I agree….We have to put up with Chilly’s conservative play calls thru 2013 now. Farve and Peterson has made Chilly’s offense look alot better this year. Maybe Farve will stay thru 2013, to keep Chilly from continuing with the TJack project or another athletic QB who cant read defenses. One more Christmas wish for the future…Hire a PROVEN offensive cordinator for rest of Chilly’s contract.
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