All About The Corner

by muffin man on Nov 2, 2009 8:58 PM CST Comment 29 comments

For the past few weeks, we have been playing corner by committee for the injured Winfield. It has been going to a little poorly, it seems that most teams are targeting that left side on the ground and through the air and in my oppinion the only player that is stepping up to the role has been "big boy" Benny Sapp. Now Paymah is a terrific special teamer but when put into a position where he has a sole responsibility he snaps. And his tackling has been very poor, same with the rookie Allen. But he is also a rookie, it is important that we get him some playing time but when you are going against 3 of the top passing offenses in the league you shouldn't be taking those chances. What I've seen from Benny that really impressed me was his ability to know where the ball is, he has great vision. I also love his open field tackling. After watching the Baltimore game i was baffled why Paymah was still in, he missed several key tackles, they ran at him constantly and weren't relenting through the air. After that game i thought that Sapp should have had the job.

What do you think?

Poll

Who should have and should start behind Antoine Winfield?

Karl Paymah

4 votes

Asher Allen

17 votes

Benny Sapp

51 votes

72 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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Comments

Paymah

I was just about make a similiar post. Can this guy possibly be our best second string corner? Even in the 1st half of this game when the defense was playing great football Paymah was missing tackles. It looks to me like he is afraid of hitting people. Actually he looks like he is afraid to touch people. His coverage ability is crappy at best. Sapp is just as bad in coverage but at least he is will to try to hit someone. Between Paymah and Sapp we have no chance of stopping the pass. I hope Winfield heals in a hurry because if he misses anymore time we may be good and screwed. I don’t know how the packers did not pick him the entire game

by taf442001 on Nov 2, 2009 9:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I might be wrong,

but didn’t Sapp get outrunned by Rodgers on the play Rodgers gained 30 yards on his feet?

by Einargunn on Nov 2, 2009 9:27 PM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Yup...

he gave up the edge and then got outran up the sideline.

by LoveHate on Nov 3, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I don’t know what the hell Sapp was thinking. He just watched him run right by him.

"Skol pa fiskande"

by NobleSavage on Nov 3, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s like he thought Rodgers was going to throw the ball, and so he just wanted to get there ASAP.

by Frost on Nov 3, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it looked like Sapp thought Rodgers was going to run out of bounds so he gave up as Rodgers proceeded to cut it up the side line for 40 yards. Sapp is talented, but he is definitely a head case. He and Ray Edwards are always capable of being called for a personal foul.

by Spartan99 on Nov 3, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Sapp thought Rodgers was running OB too.

Sapp was probably worried about getting another personal foul like he did when he hit Rothlesberger the week before. That is the only thing I think of for why he missed that tackle!

by chaosg on Nov 3, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I watched Benny when I was a student at the University of Norther Iowa and he is fast, hits hard but his coverage skills weren’t quite up to snuff. Honestly, I don’t see enough of the secondary from the TV set to really judge how any of these guys are doing now.

by zebano on Nov 4, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sapp’s overly aggressive. When he hits, he strikes like a hammer which I love to see… but his style of tackling leaves him vulnerable because he’s an “all-in” tackler. Is often air-borne, lol. But a defender can side-step that, and Sapp only gets 1 chance to make the tackle… if that doesn’t work, he can’t grab again, he’s out of position. Also, because he dives in head-first, he’s vulnerable to penalties of spearing or unnecessary roughness if the target changes the situation at the last second (e.g. Big Ben stepping out of bounds while Sapp is in mid-air and unable to stop the hit).

In coverage, Sapp is more of a zone-man in that he’s not getting between the receiver and the ball most of the time. He’s usually on the other side, able to stop the YAC but not do much about the reception. Not always the case, sometimes he breaks things up, but getting an INT will be pretty rare for him.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Nov 4, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Vikes DB's are the weakest link on the team

I’m not sure if it’s the fault of the DB’s, or if it’s the scheme they use, but I’m not impressed with the pass-coverage of any of the Vikings DB’s, I think they rely on the Pass-rush too-much.
Other than Winfield, I’m not impressed with their ability to read an offense, and I’m not impressed with their tackling neither.

by chaosg on Nov 4, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Sapp thought Rodgers was going to step out of bounds and slacked off… Rodgers saw that, and burned him bad.

by DCPurple on Nov 4, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What’s Robert Tate doing these days?

by jianfu on Nov 2, 2009 11:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sapp over Paymah I would have to agree here

I watched Sapp play for the Chiefs he is high explosive player quick and reads the field well and plays good postion football better than I would say Paymah but he can be or get upset fairly easily and taken out of his mental game (plays angry at times) Causing some penalties that have cost the team dearly and or loss of field postion and or the game….I have also seen him come out with some great interceptions and stopping some critical drives….the Vikings Staff have him playing some of his best football and controled mental game,,,,,,,,,,, or he just may be maturing and making better mental decisions…(picking and choosing his battles) .any how I am always nervouse everytime the play goes to or near Paymah and seem more comfortable with Sapp. He plays the angle better and can rap up and tackel and hits hard.

by AHHHWoooooo on Nov 2, 2009 11:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Interesting assessment…I think you might be right. Perhaps the only reason Paymah is getting more reps is because he is consistent. Sapp can be good and bad (I’m thinking last year against Chicago bad) and maybe all the staff wants/needs is a player that stays level.

by cutlassbob on Nov 3, 2009 2:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Last year against Chicago, we saw the good too. He had that stupid unsportsmanlike penalty, but he made up for it with an interception later in the game. And this last game, he was the only CB to even get close to intercepting one of Rodger’s passes.

by Frost on Nov 3, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think that’s the price paid for playing ‘prevent’ style D? Most of the time Sapp’s on the outside, even his chances for an INT are rare.

by DCPurple on Nov 4, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If we move Sapp to LCB,

then we have to put somebody else in the NB. I’d rather be spared the cascading effect if possible. Sure, when there’s the base 4-3 on the field, put Sapp in there. But don’t eff up 2 positions over Winfield’s absence—better not to confuse these young guys.

by virginia viking on Nov 3, 2009 7:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think the Vikes

feel more comfortable with Benny handling things in the slot and middle of the field. For some reason (probably speed) they don’t trust him on the outside. If this is the case then I favor having Allen out there over Paymah because Paymah is a TERRIBLE cornerback.

by skiumah06 on Nov 3, 2009 8:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Greenway at CB

Hey, I’ve got an idea. How ’bout Chad Greenway at the other CB spot? Did anybody else see that awesome diving deflection he had on Sunday?

Obviously I’m being fasicious (sp?) but it is very uplifting to see our LBs excell in coverage for once. And to not see a TE get over 50 yards.

by Jayrome007 on Nov 3, 2009 9:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Notes

Paymah is not a rookie. He was drafted by the Broncos in the 3rd round, 2005. He made the team primarily to play special teams, but he has improved some at cornerback.

Robert Tate retired after the 2006 campaign with the Cardinals.

Robert Griffith actually retired in 2008 as a Viking, according to Wikipedia. That was cool. I don’t think he is available anymore.

Like other posters said, I believe they want Benny Sapp to remain at nickel back. Otherwise, two guys are playing out of position instead of just one.

We have seen Asher Allen get some work in at cornerback against the Packers and Steelers. He did OK for a rookie.

by medicineball on Nov 3, 2009 9:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

allen

I voted allen not for the whole season but I would like to see him get a lot more time this next game against the Lions. That time will pay off in the long run.

it is better to be thought of as dumb then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Ben Franklin

by montana vikes fan on Nov 3, 2009 11:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Bye week is sorley needed.

We were fortunate to only lose one game with the weakness in the secondary. Hopefully the Bye week will help the Vikes get healthy and teach these replacements how to play a zone and TACKLE the man with the ball.

by lifelongvike on Nov 3, 2009 11:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Allen all the way.

The few mistakes he has made can all be attributed to his inexperience, and those few mistakes have been less costly than any one of the 15-20 mistakes Paymah has had in the last few weeks.

The difference between Allen and Paymah? Allen can tackle.

We drafted the kid to be the heir-apparent to Winfield, yet when Winfield goes down we rely on a guy we signed for special teams work?

I know it is a big risk starting Allen, but the rewards are much greater as well.

by Bjorno on Nov 3, 2009 12:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

We need a saftey

Johnson and Williams have not been good. Fortunately they havent been too exposed because the D-line has been able to hide them with good pressure. We miss Sharper. Probably going to have to draft another saftey next year.

by Spartan99 on Nov 3, 2009 1:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i agree

our safety play is terrible, next year that has to be a priority, along with a D-tackle, Pat is getting kinda old

by muffin man on Nov 3, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or cornerback...

…and move Griffen to FS. I think Griffen could be a good safety. He’s a much better tackler than either Johnson or Williams, and he prefers keeping the play in front of him, anyway.

Just another playmaker at any secondary position would be nice. I’ve thought that they wouldn’t go that route, considering they’ve invested a 2nd round pick and 3 big contracts to the secondary since 2006. But if it’s not working, it’s not working.

Not sure how much of Williams’s guaranteed money/cap hit the Vikings have left. If they’re past most of it, then I’m getting to the point I’d just want him gone. He’s been terrible.

by jianfu on Nov 3, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sapp, and I can't believe I'm saying that

I thought I was going to be a forever anti-Benny Sapp guy after that stupid personal foul penalty at home against the Bears last year. Granted, it lead to that awesome goal line stand and the 99 yard TD, but still, Benny Sapp was dead to me.

He hasn’t been that bad, other than the glaring drop off in tackling that Winfield gives you. I’d still like to see more of Allen Asher, though. I think with experience he’ll be pretty good.

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by MilCardFan on Nov 3, 2009 4:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs