We have built it, they will come
by iowaron on Nov 20, 2009 11:07 AM CST
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PrintI'm not sure what QB's will be available after this season. I really haven't looked into it, but wouldn't you want to play for the Vikes if Brett doesn't come back. All the so called experts kept saying all the Vikings needed to be a serious contender was a QB. Well we got BF and now we are. I realize alot depends on what happens this year. If we win it all BF is gone. I think if we get close he might come back. If not the Vikes have alot of the pieces in place. A healthy Hasselback or Delhomme or Pennington come to mind. We oblivously won't be drafting in the top ten anytime soon thats for sure. I think we could find a solid veteran that could step in and perform well. Having a top notch running game and a solid defense along with our recieving corps should appeal to a solid vet looking to escape another 6-10 season. We still have Tjack maybe after watching and learning from BF it has sunk in. He has the tools, just needs to use his head for more than a hat rack. Help me out here brethen who's available and what are your thoughts. I think it could work to keep us in the hunt.
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Please Please Goodness Sakes!
Don’t Add Delhomme in that category.
Why Do People Question The Vikings' Status?
by UnBannedVikingholic on Nov 20, 2009 11:11 AM CST reply actions
This x 10. My God.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
Okay, I was wrong about Favre.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Nov 20, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
X 100000
Trust me I live in North Carolina and I don’t think you can even understand how much people down here hate this guy. There is a website that just calls for him being tossed.
And when he has this look
You Know he has trown a Multi-Pick game or more!
Why Do People Question The Vikings' Status?
by UnBannedVikingholic on Nov 20, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
It will depend on who's available
So long as we don’t give up two first round picks like the Bears did for Cutler. Of those you mentioned, I like Hasselback the best. Who ar e the planned free agent QB’s after this year anyway?
Found a site
http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html
Based on that, Jackson might be the best available. Only other guys I’d think about that might be obtainable IMO are Kellen Clemens and Culpepper. Either of them are just competition with Jackson/Rosenfels and not clear starters.
Too much depends on whether the current teams offer extensions
I see lots of talent we could use at QB, WR, CB and S…. but the best of them are likely to be re-signed. No way to know yet, it’s too early to tell.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I like Tjack
I’m not sure a lot of Viking fans would like Tjack back. He is still young and athletic. He has gotten better every year. Maybe Chilly gives him another shot. Take out the QB equation for a minute. I think everyone would agree that we have a better team on the field this year than last year. We were 10-6 without BF and our special teams were horrible. I think we could win a dozen games with Tjack if we stay healthy. Maybe thats just me but he’s already here. He knows the system. We can keep him cheap which frees up money for other free agents. The Wilf’s ain’t afraid to spend a couple of bucks to improve any weaknesses that we may have.
I'm all for T-Jack
Why Do People Question The Vikings' Status?
by UnBannedVikingholic on Nov 20, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I support T-Jack
He’s a good player and getting better. 95.4 passer rating last year.
by medicineball on Nov 20, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Keep Favre one more season
Have him mentor the best QB the Vikings can get in the draft. This should be a deep QB draft and the Vikings will have the perfect situation for a young guy to step into.
Favre’s signed for 2, so we have him next year unless he feels strongly about bailing.
After what he’s been through, I really believe the Vikings should work with him when it comes to picking up a new QB. I’d love to see him stay on longer and transition from QB to QB Coach.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
even if it means letting him skip OTAs and Camp...
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 20, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
100%
I would let the guy come in after everything is said and done. Hell have him there in just a coaching capacity.. That would be best.
If we go all the way...if we bring home the Lombardi Trophy...
Then I really don’t care. Favre can be QB until they refuse to let him take his walker out on the field. I don’t care if he never goes to training camp, or just goes and throws the football. Just once… let’s take it all.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Favre knows alot
If he wants to keep his hand in the game after his playing days are through. I’m sure the Vikes would have no problem keeping BF around as a coach. He’s forgotten more than most QB’s know. A young QB learning from Favre would be like a deer in the headlights.
I will say this till I'm blue in the face
T-Jack is Indeed OUR QB of the FUTURE. You guys can critisize me all you want, and tell me how wrong I am but I do believe that all TJ needed was a kick in the butt. Somebody to push him to his limits.
He will be a good QB when he gets a chance. Just look how well he and Favre mesh.
Well either way I honestly believe that TJ is our QB of the Future
Purple Haze is the worlds greatest Natural Resource.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Nov 20, 2009 11:59 AM CST reply actions
Favre will be here through the 2011 season.............
After winning three straight Super Bowl Championships, he will hang them up for good.
Then 5 years later he will be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Favre is the Greatest QB (past, present, and future) in NFL History.
heh
Sam Bradford gets caught smoking pot at the combine and due to both injury and character issues falls to the Vikes with the 32nd pick in the draft. I’d say it’s impossible, but look at the Vikings ridiculous luck with having top players fall to them on draft day.
I believe it can happen, I believe it can happen, I believe it can happen.
Randy Moss, Adrian Peterson, Percy Harvin. In the last 11 years. All three of these guys are worthy of the #1 pick in the draft. I think this team can do pretty good in the draft when we put our mind to it.
How about
We have the #1 rusher in the NFC and the #1 receiver in the NFC right now. Both off of drafts in the last three years… I expect we’ll do great in this draft which I must admit is a feeling I’m getting comfortable with.
As for QB’s we could pick up Campbell, or McNab might be open. Problem is with McNab and Hassleback is they are both proned to be injured a lot. If we’re going to have someone like that here I say (and I shudder with it) play TJack. One year on the ultimate hot seat (he’s on a great team following up for Brett Favre) and if he can’t pull it out toss his ass to the wolves.
My problem with TJ is that when the team gave him the chance last year and he started to fall apart he told Childress in a meeting that he was just trying not to lose games. That is when Childress benched him and started Gus. I don’t want a QB who is trying not to lose games. Even if he’s nothing but a clock manager I still want his happy butt working to win the dang game.
I didn’t know about his comment to Chilly…. that’s very disturbing.
And agreed, trying not to lose is not the same as trying to win.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
argh.
And agreed, trying not to lose is not the same as trying to win.
I think of the horrible… ‘prevent’ defense.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 20, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
In defense of TJ on that
That’s how he was taught. From day one, it was stressed to him to play ‘within the system’, and don’t turn the ball over. It’s okay to throw the ball away, and don’t take any chances. But don’t use your God given ability and make a play with your feet, either. Become a pocket passer, but a very conservative one.
It’s the complete opposite of Favre, and it shows. On third and 15, 99% of the time TJ hits the checkdown back for five yeards and they punt. Favre? Throws to Percy into something close to triple coverage to se if Percy ‘can make a play’. Or he throws a freakin’ bullet to Bernard Berrian from his own end zone for a first down.
And that goes back to my biggest beef with Chilly, and why I thought the contract extension was premature. TJ is what he is because of Chilly and what Chilly has taught him. This offense hums with a great quarterback, but can TJ be a great QB with Chilly stressing Tresselball to him?
I don’t know.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
Or...
TJ doesn’t see the field, see the opportunity, or have the confidence to throw it out there and let the WR make a catch…
instead he ‘checks down’ (read goes immediately) to the short/sure thing.
‘The System’ works – but it’s about match-ups and the knowledge/chemistry of where the play/pass is going.
I just don’t think TJ fully grasps the complexity of the offensive scheme… especially not like Favre.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 20, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
maybe he should have been given more than 19 games, favre has had 19 years.
by iseepurplepeople on Nov 20, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Fair points
But does he not have the confidence to throw downfield because he’s afraid to make a mistake?
I could very easily see this as a chicken-egg situation.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
At this point.... it could be anything
I wouldn’t have thought TJ was susceptible to a confidence issue until I saw the shots of his sad-sack face earlier in the season; he looked pretty bummed. Not sure what it was about, but hopefully he’s set that aside.
In the ’mic’ed up’ vid, Favre said something interesting to him. “Don’t make it complicated!” or something like that. That revealing, and may point to what TJ’s issue really is; over-thinking things and making them more complex than they need to be.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Good call Grime
I totally agree and as for McNabb I think he is a perfect fit for us and we can protect him from injury!
A bird in the hand is worth about 10.99 at KFC and makes me lick my chops
Yummy!!!!!
Troy Smith is the best available free agent.
I keep beating this dead horse but nobody is a believer. Troy Smith was slated to start for the Ravens a year ago. An injury allowed Flacco to start early and he turned out better than the coaching staff could believe. Troy is a legitimate starter who hasn’t proven that he is unable to start. Not a proven failure like Campbell and not OLD like McNab or Hasslebeck.
If the Viking scouts agree that he is better than T-Jax then I say he would be a good free agent pick-up.
All in all I like our back-ups and think either could run this team effectively. There will be 5 teams looking for QB’s in the draft. We can take a shot with a late round pick but those rarely work out.
As a Buckeye fan to boot
I give that a + (Big) 10!!
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
Wow a Hawkeye and Buckeye agree on something
by lifelongvike on Nov 20, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
LOL
My family is all from Iowa, so there’s common ground there somewhere.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
He's short and not as good as Drew Brees
by medicineball on Nov 20, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
in all fairness
there’s arguably 25+ starting nfl qb’s this season alone who are ‘not as good as drew brees’
by iseepurplepeople on Nov 20, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone who isn't named
Manning (Peyton), Brady, Favre, and Roethlisberger for sure.
And its arguable that he’s still better than all of them except maybe Peyton.
Explanation
Both Troy Brown and Drew Brees are 6’0. Most quarterbacks that height or shorter do not have good NFL careers. The problem they always encounter is they can’t see down field as well as they need to, and also they have a lot of balls tipped.
Drew Brees is one of the very few short quarterbacks who plays the position at a very high level. Brees is a great quarterback.
Troy Smith won the Heisman in college, but so did Gino Torretta. Troy Smith does not have the ability to do what Drew Brees does. Troy Smith is a career backup NFL quarterback. There’s nothing wrong with that. You can make a lot of money doing that and possibly get in some games.
by medicineball on Nov 22, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
Is that the test???
Is the test whether or not your next quarterback is better than Drew Brees? Drew was an accomplished starter with great stats when he was signed by New Orleans. I would sign him if he was available. McNab is the only comparable QB and his injury propensity scares me a lot.
by lifelongvike on Nov 21, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
Wow guys some passion
There is know doubt that if Tjack gets another chance that this will be his last hurrah. He has the tools, now lets see if he has the guts. You cannot be afraid to make a mistake.
Do what you do best, follow your instincts. When pass coverage looks tight and you see daylight run. Run like a MotherFer. Keep learning from every experience. Thats what it takes
to be a good NFL QB. Practice your timing with your recievers day in and day out. The Colts wouldn’t even have a winning record without P. Manning. That guy drops back and goes 1,2,3 and throws it to a spot. Guess what his guy is at that spot. That is why he is a 3 time MVP and looking for more. Tjack just needs to learn that is what its going to take to make it in this league.
The problem with Jackson
The problem with giving T-Jax a chance is that his contract is up. You have to either sign him to a long term deal ( signing bonus) or let him go. The decision needs to be made before March whether or not he is your future. I trust the coaching staff to make the correct decision. I really can’t find much out there in free agency that is better than an IMPROVED T-Jax. In fact I don’t see much that is better than Sage.
I would feel better if we could get a lead and watch him play for a couple of quarters.
by lifelongvike on Nov 21, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
I’m really hoping that if Brett doesn’t come back next season we have Jackson under center for us. I’ll say it I’ve been a Jackson supporter from day one and I wouldn’t say that he has impressed me but I can’t argue the fact he has improved every year. He has all of the skills he just needs to actually see the whole field and improve his footwork. I’d love to see Childress give him more options with the offense like he has Brett. I can see why people don’t want TJ behind center sometimes but it’s dumb to say Jackson is a horrible QB when he’s just not. What really irks me is that people will always be like “JACKSON sucks blah blah blah he’s been in the league four years and hasn’t done anything” and they turn around in almost the same sentence and will be like “Matt Leinart and Vince young I’d much rather have them. They are still young” Jackson is the second best quarterback taken out of that draft right behind Jay Cutler.(The QB draft pick order went Vince Young, Leinart, Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Jackson, )
Being 2nd best doesn't mean your NFL caliber.
I agree with you that Jackson still has upside potential. In fact I really liked his arm strength and confidence mopping up against the Seahawks. But we don’t need to resign a backup Q.B. We will find out what the Vikings coaching staff feels about Jackson before March when his contract expires. I trust them as talent evaluators. If he is able to read defenses, react decisively, and not throw interceptions on a regular basis they will resign him as the Face of the franchise going forward. If they don’t believe it then his contract will expire. Simple as that.
I really don't want to jinx things, but
… even if It does indeed come to pass, I’m not so sure we don’t see Favre try to Pull an Elway and come back. Why not, most of the contracts of the other marquee players run through 2010 too. Only exception I can think of is Chester, who would be a shame to lose, but the more AD improves his passcatching, the less sting it would be.
After 2010 though, it’s unlikely Wilf will be able to afford keeping this team together. At that time there will be concerns beyond just QB.
Your right
Did you catch the part that if a new CBA contract is not in place then people like Tjack who would normally be free agents can’t become free agents for a couple more years. Its a provision to induce the players to come to the bargaining table. It could save a team like Baltimore that will be decimated this year with all of their free agents.
by lifelongvike on Nov 23, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
that provision depends on how many years you have in the league. it doesn’t affect players with more than 4 years. it also limits the teams ability to sign anybody as the bulk of the contract has to be front loaded and signing bonuses can’t be prorated.
basically you won’t see any contracts that are back loaded. that hurts a team like the vikings who are up against the cap. yes next season will be an uncapped year but it unlikely to be uncapped in 2011.
there will be some interesting and creative contracts thoughout the league this offseason. the general consensus is that big stars will make out like bandits while everyone else gets screwed.
by iseepurplepeople on Nov 24, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe, maybe not
If the cap returns in 2011, all the big huge contracts signed during the uncapped year may count against the team in 2011… things could get real ugly…
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
regardless of whether a new cba is agreed to for 2011, the 2010 season is uncapped and comes with it’s own rules. big contracts will have to be front loaded because anyone signing a contract for 2010 has to have 60% of the contract paid during the first half of the contract.
so if we resign chester taylor to a 4 yr $8mil deal with $2mil signing bonus, the entire bonus will count in 2010 and another $2.8mil must be paid in ‘10 and ’11. so only $3.2mil is allowed to be paid ’12 and ’13. this probably isn’t something that the vikings would want to do. under the old system, they may have given taylor the exact same contract but prorate the bonus and give him like $1 mil in ’10 and ’11 with the contract escalating at the end. this gives them the ability to cut his overall package to only $4 million if they cut him after 2 years as opposed to having to pay him $5mil or $6mil due to the ending of the current cba.
i know that doesn’t seem like much (saving $1mil or $2mil) but that’s a big deal for a marginal player like taylor. now multiply that times 10 for a star player and you’re talking real money. most teams will likely make that deal for a true star so they can pay the bulk of a big players contract up front in an uncapped year.
think of it like this. suppose we give peterson a new deal giving him a huge contract like 6 years for $60mil. now suppose that the wilfs are willing to pay the bulk of that up front like $20mil signing bonus and $15mil in 2010. then in 2011 he makes $10 mil. now with 4 years left on his contract he’s only got $15mil left on his contract at less than $4mil a year during his prime years. that frees up a lot of cap money that the vikings can use to put even more talent around him.
it’s a risk because of injury and/or lack of production, but that hasn’t stopped a lot of owners from ponying up in the past. there are some teams who will play those odds and come out of the uncapped year with a lot of money already paid to key players who are locked in longterm at cap friendly rates. there will invariably also be those teams that get bit and throw a lot of money at guy who gets hurt or lazy but that’s the nature of the game.
by iseepurplepeople on Nov 24, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
Cap games
Thanks for going into that, I hadn’t considered how the money could be shuffled around to get what they need.
it’s a risk because of injury and/or lack of production, but that hasn’t stopped a lot of owners from ponying up in the past.
But the payoff, if the marquee players stay healthy and keep performing at a high level, is huge. It lets them build a team loaded with stars and continue to build on it during the cap years. Might be the timing is just right for the Vikings FO.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
it is huge. if you have an owner willing to spend a lot of money he could really set the stage for a dynasty in the next decade by locking in young stars to big front loaded contracts.
there’s no way this could happen but just imagine if sullivan, loadholt, harvin, asher allen, peterson, rice, greenway, and a big name free agent to be named later were all about to take off toward hall of fame careers. now imagine if the vikings sign all of them in the offseason to lucrative front loaded long term contracts. say they were so front loaded that after the initial hit during the uncapped year that collectively they only counted $20mil against the cap on average from 2011 thru 1016.
could you imagine 8 perennial pro bowlers only costing $20mil agains the cap? look at this year. favre alone is 12mil. can you imagine the team that we could field with that kind of core locked in and that much cap space available?
there will be a team to try it in the offseason. it’s too tempting not to. if i were a multibillionaire i’d spend a couple hundred million to find out.
but then again, that’s probably why i’m not a multibillionaire.
by iseepurplepeople on Nov 24, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldnt class
Chester as a Marginal player,maybe some might feel that way cause he is in A.D.s shadow but he could make any Teams roster right now and be declared the starter.
New CBA does effect Tarvaris
My understanding is that Travaris is a free agent because he has over 4 years in the league. If we don’t get a new CBA the rule changes to "free agent after 6 years in the league. Its a bad rule for guys like Tjack but its there to make the union bargain for a new agreement. I admit I could have this wrong but I think I’m right.
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