Wilf bypassing MSFC?

by VikesFaninNM on Nov 23, 2009 12:34 PM CST

Interesting article I came across in the Pioneer Press this morning. Thought I would through this out there to those who are fans but not from Minnesota on what's happening. Oh, make sure you vote in the poll if it will help the Vikings in anyway though sure not many local politicians will. But at anyrate, hopefully people will keep riding their arses up there to get something done soon!

Wilf deals directly with Legislators

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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Technically, they're the Z.Wilff Vikings

not the Minnesota Vikings. The $millionaire Willfs stand to gain way more than the people of Minnesota.
The Wilffs and R.Goodell are acting like spoiled children right now. The nation it’s self is $trillions of dollars in debt, and the state of Minnesota is over $6billion in debt. Unemployment is still on the rise, and these butt-holes want to force us into buying them a new $billion dollar stadium, when it’s blatantly obvious that we can’t afford one right now.

IMO, all the people who were involved with building the Twins and Gophers new stadiums are to blame. Did it ever cross their minds that the Vikes will need a new home too? Or that the Vikes and Gophers could share a stadium again. The Minnesota sports market is too small. Minnesota doesn’t have the need for 5 different stadiums, especially in this current economy.
Goodell and the Wilffs need to back-off on the stadium for now. Let the country/state get back on it’s feet before they start demanding a $Billion dollars.

by chaosg on Nov 23, 2009 3:57 PM CST reply actions

oh please...

the people of the State stand to lose significantly if the business known as the Minnesota Vikings depart MN.
If you cannot comprehend the end-to-end revenue stream generated in the taxation of activity revolving around this team, then you are not thinking hard enough.
It is easy to say a new stadium benefits ‘the millionaires’, but it benefits the people of the State even more.
The Vikings play 8 games (guaranteed) and the rest of the year the space is used for other, taxable activity. Let’s not consider the many ‘non-millionaires’ who are employed to construct, maintain, supply, and work within and around the facility… what about the hotel/restaurant/bar/taxi/rental car/airport/gas station/beer employees who benefit from activity within the facility? It’s easy to begin counting up tens (maybe 100s of) thousands of direct and indirect benefactors to the stadium alone. The taxation revenue generated is HUGE. None of which flows to the millionaires who own the franchise/team.

I would argue that one could calculate that the split in total revenue shared between the owners and the state is approximately equal to the split in the cost currently on the table. 70% State, 30% Vikings.

BUILD IT.

I BELIEVE...

by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 23, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions

Rebuilding our infrastructure would help create jobs too.

The 35w bridge fell down a couple years ago. Most of the highways, roads, bridges and schools in Minnesota are 30+ yrs old, and they need to be rebuilt. (we salt our roads here)
There’s bigger problems in Minnesota than the the Metro Dome, and there’s lots of other ways to stimulate the Minnesota economy with $1billion dollars, other than just building one building that will only be used a little over 10 days a year. It’s not like the Metro dome is condemned. They can still play in it for a few years.

It’s the Vikings themselves that bring revenue to the city, not the stadium. Sure the Stadium will employ people, but probably no more than what the HHH currently employs.

There’s plenty of other places to host conventions in the mpls area. Target center, Excel center, HHH, MPLS Convention center, and all the hotels in those surrounding area’s.

Now I’m not saying we should never build a stadium, but the Vikes are asking for a lot of money at the wrong time. Why do they need the stadium right now anyway? Do they want a bigger stadium?, if so why? they can barely fill the one they got. Why does the stadium have to cost $1bil? Why can’t they refurbish the dome for a fraction of the price? Why didn’t they just take the Anoka offer if they need a stadium so bad? Sounds to me like Goodell and the Wilffs want it all or nothing….just my opinion! :)

by chaosg on Nov 23, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions

Hmmm, let’s see….

The owners aren’t likely to oppose any attempt to move the Vikings to a better stadium in another state.
The lease runs out in a couple years, leaving the Vikings, truly, ‘free agents’ in the NFL franchise-world.
There’s at least one other city and would-be owner that would love to see the Vikings migrate southwards.
The Wilfs are being pressured by the other owners to pull their weight
The current stadium is too small and outdated
A lot of Minnesotans don’t like the Vikings and don’t want to pay for a new stadium
The Minnesota state legislature shows zero interested in building a new stadium

What do you think is going to happen?

I read your issues with the situation and the level of class-hostility is bone-chilling. Your position is shared by many Minnesotans, you aren’t alone in this. In fact, most don’t even seem to like the Vikings and have bigger issues with it all than you do.

I understand that the economy sucks, but it’s been made clear that a lot of jobs will be created for at least 2 years in working on the project, plus the revenues it brings in, and the whole thing comes with the nicest present of all; you get to keep the Vikings.

Sure, jobs can be created by doing other projects, but those other projects don’t get you an NFL football team, so by definition, they’re inferior.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Nov 24, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions

I never said I don’t want them to build a stadium. I just think the NFL is out of line for making us build them a $1billion dollar stadium when the entire nation is damn-near bankrupt. We got other problems, and me thinking this way doesn’t make me not a fan of the Vikings. It just means I/we have other views on what we spend our tax dollars on right now. IDK about you, but I would hate to have a bridge collapse from under my truck while driving,. I’m also sick of constantly dodging pot-holes too. :)

Who do you think is going to get the contract for building the new stadium? My bet is a low-baller from out of state would probably get the deal…lol.
Building a billion dollar stadium will generate some jobs, but will it generate a billion or more in tax-revenue?

by chaosg on Nov 24, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions

I never said I don’t want them to build a stadium. I just think the NFL is out of line for making us build them a $1billion dollar stadium when the entire nation is damn-near bankrupt.

Do you think the Vikings chose this time to do this? No one wants the economy to be in the dumps, but creating 3500 new jobs and a new downtown commerce complex can’t be a bad thing for the Minny economy.

Oh, and they want Minny to cover $650m of it, not a billion.

It just means I/we have other views on what we spend our tax dollars on right now.

Perhaps so, but I don’t think spending something less than $176 per Minnesota taxpayer, across the next 30 years, will break your backs. That’s less than $6/year per Minny taxpayer, and it doesn’t even take into account the revenue it will generate and the events that it will make possible for Minny.

Who do you think is going to get the contract for building the new stadium? My bet is a low-baller from out of state would probably get the deal…lol.

That would be up to the Minny state legislature, and if they do that, you should work hard on voting them out of office.

Building a billion dollar stadium will generate some jobs, but will it generate a billion or more in tax-revenue?

Don’t know. Don’t care. If you guys aren’t willing to ante up $6/taxpayer per year to keep the Minnesota Vikings in Minnesota, you don’t deserve to have the team.

by DCPurple on Nov 24, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions

Pittsburgh’s really the model for small-to-mid-market full-scale stadium building. While they were largely bullied through legislation (a public referendum initially shot the idea down, as usual; I don’t think Zygi’s going to be pushing for a referendum on this idea), they had good timing, late 90s-early 2000s before construction costs skyrocketed even more: PNC park was built for $216 million and Heinz field for $281 million. Target Field estimates are over $500 million, for comparison.

I agree the Vikings and Gophers should have worked together. That just seemed the most sensible solution at the time, and Heinz Field—which hosts both an NFL team and a public university’s NCAA team—proves it’s a workable model. Can’t remember what happened, as the idea was brought up. My guess is the Vikings didn’t want to be on the U of M campus (can’t develop the surrounding area).

by jianfu on Nov 23, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions

Let the country/state get back on it's feet???!!!

HAHA When is that suppose to happen?! I think we’ve been waiting for the turn around for quite awhile! God ole’ Obama, and Pewlenty aren’t getting it done. I love Zigi! He’ll do it his way. He’ll push to get this stadium, He’ll pay to get this stadium, and Damn it, the Minnesota Vikings will remain the Minnesota Vikings!

Skol Vikes!

...add #4 to the mix and see what you get... Championship.

by Macdaddy4508 on Nov 23, 2009 6:04 PM CST reply actions

Clearly many of you have never seen the size of Ed Roski's checkbook...

Hats off to Zygi and more power to him. If I were looking for a stadium, I’d blow off the tap dancing flunkies and go straight to the top too. That is where the deal makers are.

But I’ve written to some of those folks myself in the past. My bet is Zyg will get the consolation prize of returning to New Jersey with more dollars than will fit into his jet.

Ed (the billionaire) Roski will merrily make more money by stealing the Vikings for his new stadium near LA than he has done already by building the new digs for the Lakers.

Minnesotans won’t even get a thank you note out of the deal, and will be left figuring out how to replace all the lost tax revenue once generated by NFL football being played in the state.

by Elgar on Nov 23, 2009 6:51 PM CST reply actions

Bingo!

will be left figuring out how to replace all the lost tax revenue

and jobs. Any pol who can’t frame the stadium debate with the job angle isn’t worth his warchest.

I BELIEVE...

by ArizonaVikingsFan on Nov 23, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions

Jobs...

Job creation. A common argument heard from stadium proponents is that the construction of a new sports stadium or arena will generate thousands of new jobs for the local community. Robert Baade found that “sports tend to produce low-skilled, low-paid employment such as: food and souvenir vendors, security personnel, hotel and restaurant employees.”(14) If a city encourages a movement toward this kind of employment by subsidizing sports, the city will find its economic development lagging behind development in the rest of the region. In other words, jobs created by stadium and arena construction and/or operation do not, on their own, generate significant tax revenues for a city. Taxes generated by the operation of a factory or similar industry would likely be greater than that of a stadium or arena, and therefore are more valuable to a city from a revenue standpoint.

—StadiumMouse

by jianfu on Nov 23, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions

Don't forget that

the players for the visiting team have to pay state taxes on their earnings for games played here. Combine that with the earnings of the Vikings players in their home games, that’s tens of millions every year, not counting your “low-skilled, low-paid employment”.

"What is best in life?"
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."

by cryhavoc on Nov 23, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions

Not to mention, when I was a kid, my Dad worked for WCCO back when CBS had the NFC games. Geez, all that O.T. allowed us to get a new Suburban and boat back then. Yeah, thats not helping out the tax payers. But I guess working in TV constitutes low skilled…..until the station went off the air, then he was the hero to the viewers for helping it to get back on. Talk about a BS argument in that article.

"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
"That is the craziest sonofabitch I ever saw, how many more like him do you think are up there?"
"We have clearance Clearance. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"

by VikesFaninNM on Nov 24, 2009 2:12 AM CST up reply actions

What I think about

What if this was 3M or Target who was thinking of moving their headquarters to another state, what would the folks at the Capitol be doing? Saying “Not right now, more important things to take care of.”? Bet your sweat arse they wouldn’t. They would be bending over backwards with tax breaks, incentives and would throw in a publicly funded new building or land purchase to help out. How many people would be whining of that? Next to zilch. But judging from the response the Pioneer Press has received, many people are realizing what is means if the Vikings left.

Sure, the Vikes may not have as many permanent employees as 3M or Target, but they still employ people. And another argument I’ve always made, what about the folks who are hired on during the football season or work overtime at hotels, restaurant’s, bars, etc.? What happens to them? More layoffs and no overtime which produces less “productivity” which in turns makes things worse economically. Sure, new stadium construction only last’s a few years and cost’s money, but those jobs are still jobs. Who out there would complain if this was part of FDR’s new deal or Obama’s stimulus? It’s just a sport that I don’t go too, so why use tax payer money to help out? Well, it’s only art, so why should my tax payer money go to any museum, be it in Minnesota or here in New Mexico. I don’t go to them but never object to them. Why? It enhances life in Minnesota just like the Vikings is an enhancement for the state. Why should a private business like 3M and Target get subsidized by state benefits and the Vikings a “F off and die”? Oh, just because the group that owns them are millionaires. So that means 3M and Target should get the heave ho as well. Who cares about them. Hell, just make Minnesota the United States version of Easter Island. Nothing to support it and Dependant on others. Is that what the politicians and a few boisterous, supposed “for the collective good” really want? Perhaps. But I think you have to roll the Vikings in with the Targets and 3M’s in the world. Scratch my back, I scratch yours. Help me, I help you and in the long run, we all benefit.

by VikesFaninNM on Nov 23, 2009 8:27 PM CST reply actions

Shhhh!!!!

What if this was 3M or Target who was thinking of moving their headquarters to another state, what would the folks at the Capitol be doing? … They would be bending over backwards with tax breaks, incentives and would throw in a publicly funded new building or land purchase to help out.

Don’t give them any ideas!

A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.

by dwarg on Nov 23, 2009 11:11 PM CST up reply actions

LOL

I know. I can remember as a kid and there were ru ors 3M might move HQ outta town. But I think it’s the best perspective I can come up with that hit’s everyone. When Albuquerque lost the Dukes (AAA Dodgers team), it finally hit the folks here on not only losing the team, but the lose the city took in no more revenue. They had to spend a fortune to rebuild the stadium, pay a team and owner to move out here (Calgary Cannons) to become the Isotopes. Now, as far as Triple A ball, this stadium kicks arse, but they could have had the stadium with the old Dukes for ALOT less then what they had to shell out in the long run. Another point-some have said we can just get another team. Well guess what, it took Houston $1 Billion just to buy a franchise and another half that to build a stadium for a total of around $1.5 billion. Where is the economic sense in that?

by VikesFaninNM on Nov 23, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions

alburquerque...

was lucky! at least they were able to aquire another baseball team to come to town. minnesota won’t have that chance. once the nfl leaves, it WILL NOT be back.

by indianavikesfan on Nov 24, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions

You mean like how it didn't come back to Baltimore or Cleveland or St. Louis?

by MCA1 on Nov 24, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions

And guess what?

They all needed shiney new stadiums to be built to lure them there on top of all the money to help along with them. As I mentioned about Houston, 1.5 billion+ dollars to get a team back there. So, whats cheaper now and the long run. Build a new stadium now, or let them leave, then 10+ years find another team wanting to move, build a new stadium that will only be even more expensive as I highly doubt cost’s will come down plus the money to spend to help move and to pay to get them here on top of that.

by VikesFaninNM on Nov 24, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions