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Stadium Dynamics and Politics



So let me see if I can figure out where this stadium issue is going

Star-divide

The Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission, the owner/operator of the Metrodome, wants the Vikings to extend their lease, or they're raising the rent $4 million/yr.  The Vikings are so pissed with that move that they boyvott the unveiling of the 'Metrodome Next' project put forth by the MSFC, and say they can't endorse it at this time.

It seems to me that the Vikings are looking for an Anoka County-type deal that cuts out the state government and the MSFC.  With Target Field operated by the Minnesota Ballpark Authority, it would seem that's exactly what Wilf is trying to do, because he wants the MSFC out of the picture after the lease extension/rent raise stunt, and wants them to die on the vine, which is what will happen if he gets a new stadium built somewhere other than where the Metrodome currently is.

So, here's my question:  If Wilf gets a county like Anoka to fund the stadium, similar to what the Twins did with Hennepin County, do you think he will he work to ensure that the MSFC is NOT a part of the deal, and what will he do if the Legislature mandates that they are?

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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If he goes to Anoka county or anyone else and only the voters of the county say yes and they go 50/50 with out going to the state for loans or anything, don’t see how the state can say or do to enforce themselves into the deal. Then again, if they try too, might see lynch mobs showing up at the Capitol steps or find alot of politicians suddenly unable to get re-elected.

"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
"You men are only risking your lives, while I am risking an almost-certain Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor!"
"We have clearance Clarence. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"

by VikesFaninNM on Dec 19, 2009 7:49 PM CST reply actions  

I've said this all along...

The state needs to pay to play – both parties know the MD is not suitable for a 21st Century sports team…

EITHER:
Participate by spending some State money and keep the MSFC in play
OR
Sell the MD and property to Wilf for $1 and get out of the way.

If they don’t do one of these… they will be left holding an empty stadium with no lessors and no future.

Wilf will get the MD for a song OR a partnership with MOA/Bloomington or Anoka…

I BELIEVE...

by ArizonaVikingsFan on Dec 19, 2009 11:05 PM CST reply actions  

Minnesota and the east coast

Here’s the situation.

The Vikings must move out of the Metrodome after 2011. This is because the revenue generated there is not enough. They need to begin a process of moving into a new venue that will generate sufficient revenue. Roger Goodell has described this as a “quality” stadium. Every stadium in the NFL is “quality” except the Metrodome, he has implied.

The Vikings are run by east coast businessmen, led by Zygi Wilf. To them, every move is a negotiation, there is no monetary value on gestures of niceness.

The MSFC is a quasi-governmental entity that is run by its board of directors. The board has people on it who embody “Minnesota Nice.” Minnesota Nice is the cultural norm in Minnesota and in other parts of the upper Midwest. In this cultural norm, a standard negotiating tactic is to make a “nice gesture,” and then follow that up with the real demand, or a tough gesture.

On the east coast, this “Minnesota Nice” behavior is not looked upon favorably, but when it is encountered, it is called, “passive aggressive behavior.” This phrase “passive aggressive” originally derives from a psychological diagnosis, but is used these days in a very general way that has nothing to do with psychology. People native to the east coast use this phrase whenever they encounter someone who “shows nice,” and then negotiates aggressively, or fights with a tough stance.

On the east coast, what they call “passive aggressive behavior” is almost taboo. It is considered to be highly unacceptable out there.

We have two different cultures that are clashing.

In Minnesota, the standard negotiating tactic for the Vikings is expected to be “a nice gesture,” and then the real negotiation begins. Sometimes the nice gesture accompanies the real negotiations. That is how every Minnesotan from Pawlenty to the legislature to the MSFC expects it to be done.

The Wilfs, Lester Bagley, and the east coasters, however expect every move to be part of the negotiation. Nice gestures don’t have monetary value, and thus should not be part of the negotiation, in their eyes.

Here is what I think has happened. First, we have to understand that the MSFC is trying hard in their own way.

The Vikings and the Wilfs, and the MSFC have studied every scenario to get a new venue. The Wilfs are in real estate, so this is part of what they are really good at. Their studies have determined that remodeling the Metrodome would not be worth the money. Everyone would be better off building a new stadium. Re-using the site of the Metrodome would save on infrastructure cost.

The Vikings see two alternative proposals. The Vikings say that each are equally good to them. One is an open-air stadium, and the other is a retractable roof stadium.

Realistically, the Vikings would actually prefer a retractable roof. This would help them bring in larger crowds on cold days in December and January. That said, this would only affect a handful of games each year. Taking the position of “we don’t need a retractable roof” is a negotiating position by the Vikings. They probably would prefer one, if the price is right.

The Vikings estimate that the restractable roof option would cost a lot more than an open-air stadium. The Vikings do not want to foot the bill for it.

When an entity such as MSFC partners with the Vikings to build the stadium, they would have a lot of use for the retractable roof. They will host Prince concerts in February, for example, and they will need the roof for that. Thus, theoretically, the MSFC should pay for a lot of cost of that roof.

Anyway, with the Minnesota state budget being what it is, the MSFC decided that nothing was likely to be done in 2011. As a “nice gesture” he offered to extend the lease for another two years, to 2013. The reasoning behind it probably was, “The economy will be better in two years, and so will the state budget. Let’s just wait a while.”

Usually a stadium lease would not be extended for two years. Normally that would be extended for more like 15 or 20 years at a time. In this proposed lease extension, the MSFC may see this as opening the negotiations with a “nice gesture.”

The Vikings, however, interpreted that lease extension proposal as irrelevant. There is no value to the Vikings in extending the lease. Furthermore, the MSFC tacked on a threat of starting to charge the Vikings rent again. That part of the negotiation was not useful to the Vikings. Moreover, you can’t cash in a “nice gesture” and thus, what MSFC intended to be a nice gesture was interpreted as a near-insult.

To the MSFC, that offer was “Minnesota Nice.” It is what is expected. Standard Minnesota negotiations. To the Wilfs and the Vikings, however, it was a “passive aggressive” move because it was dressed up to seem nice, when they saw it as an attack on them. They saw it as a negotiation offer that actually offered the Vikings nothing of value. If the Vikings were to “take the offer,” that would be a sign of weakness and they would be hurt in the negotiations badly.

The Vikings did not react favorably to this move. The Vikings want a back-and-forth negotiation. To them, what would be a positive step is dickering over the price, and who pays for it. They don’t want any “Minnesota Nice” passive-aggressive move as part of it the negotiations. To preserve their negotiating position with the state, they terminated negotiations with the MSFC.

Now, in near-crisis mode the MSFC commissioned a quick re-do of the architecture plans. Now they say they can do it for $70 million cheaper than before. The Vikings did not attend the press conference releasing the details.

To the Vikings, this architectural idea is secondary. It has nothing to do with the actual negotiations, which is solely about price and who pays for what and how much.

To the MSFC, the architecture plans was a “Minnesota Nice” gesture intended to soften the edges up. But it didn’t work, because the Vikings weren’t receptive to that.

In all seriousness, here is what should happen.

One, the Vikings should hire a negotiator who knows Minnesota culture very well. Two, the Vikings should make conciliatory gestures toward the MSFC, governor, and legislature. For example, have them over for a nice lunch. Release a press statement praising the state of Minnesota. Something like that. This would mostly be symbolic. This would go against their east coast ways, but that’s how business is done in Minnesota.

Second, MSFC should hire new legal representation to represent them. The MSFC needs to change direction. This new lawyer would become their lead negotiator. Their new negotiator should come to some kind of preliminary deal with the Vikings as to price, who pays, and how much.

Then, with that deal in hand, the Vikings and the MSFC should approach the legislature and governor together. Of course, the deal could get altered again. Eventually, though, a deal can be struck with all of the parties on board.

by medicineball on Dec 19, 2009 11:43 PM CST reply actions  

man

that is a lot of thought……ok still thinking…….good post!

it is better to be thought of as dumb then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Ben Franklin

by montana vikes fan on Dec 20, 2009 12:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Sounds good but...

They need a new stadium design, or stadium complex design.

This is 2009 (2010 in a few days) and when nearly a billion dollars is being plunked down, the state has the right to expect something spectacular. Something that people can look at and admire, and feel proud of. Maybe even something which qualifies as a work of art. They need something which will represent the state and be beautiful in form as it’s functional in purpose (refer: Buckminister Fuller).

The thing they have now looks like a giant version of log cabin, without the logs. It’s hideous, uninspiring, an eye-sore on the skyline. No one will want to pay for that crap. Dump it.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Dec 20, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, saw all that.

I think the idea of an entertainment complex is extremely smart and gives Minny a wonderful flexibility throughout the year for events. This is exactly the sort of project that would generate lots of local jobs for the next couple years, enough to see folks through the recession.

They need to talk to the designers of the Dallas or the Arizona stadiums. I know they have to have a steeper roof-line to deal with the snow, but surely something better can be designed.

Indy’s stadium looks more like a big aircraft hanger than a football stadium, and it looks like the same guy had a hand in this project. Maybe it’s just me, but the stadium itself looks more like an industrial project than an entertainment venue.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Dec 20, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

The MSFC has 'Minnesota Nice'd' themsleves

into near irrelevancy, and they know it. I don’t think this has anything to do with Minnesota Nice, but everything to do with leverage and power at this point. The Legislature has power over the Vikings, because right now the hold the keys to the safe, and the Vikes need the Legislature to give them money. The Vikes hold leverage over the Legislature after 2011, because they can move. The MSFC has nothing, except and empty Metrodome in a couple years, and tried to keep themselves in the picture with the lease extension proposal, which blew up in their face.

Now they roll out this desperate stadium proposal to get the Vikes back on their side, and the Vikes pretty much gave them the finger. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Wilf go back to Anoka County to try and get something done with them.

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by Ted Glover on Dec 20, 2009 9:03 AM CST up reply actions  

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