Childress Ripped Offense at Halftime, Favre After the Game
by Anthony21 on Dec 22, 2009 1:07 PM CST
in Vikings
89 comments
There wasn't a heated discussion, Brad Childress? While Chilly denies that he got into a heated argument with Favre during the third quarter of Sunday's game, Sean Jensen reports that he wasn't pleased with Favre yapping to the media about the dispute. And so this happened after the media had left the locker room:
Interviews with six members of the organization revealed that Childress ripped his offense during halftime Sunday and that he privately unleashed an expletive-laden outburst toward Favre long after the game in the visitors' locker room.
By the way, that halftime rant didn't seem to be too effective:
Childress lashed out at his offense at halftime, after the unit had mustered just 66 net yards and struggled to run or pass the ball.
He cursed, and he called it "laughable" that they consider themselves a Super Bowl team.
One player described the tirade as "entertaining." Another likened it to a parent chastising a teenager.
And then the offense came out for the second half and stunk it up again. But as I alluded to after the game, something that's slipped through the cracks this week is the performance of the defense. Despite the problems between Childress and Favre, and despite the problems with Favre's protection (which ought to be the real story this week, in my opinion), Kevin Williams notes the sloppiness of the defensive effort this week:
We missed some tackles. I think we might have missed 15 tackles in the game.
I don't have the exact missed tackle count, but it captures the problem for this defense. In a game where the Vikings failed to compete, the issue with the defense was simply its inability to do fundamental things.
0 recs |
89 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
READ THE ARTICLE FOR THE REAL PROBLEM - FAVRE CHANGING RUNS INTO PASSES
From the article:
“But all is not well between Brad and Brett, and the primary difference centers on the quarterback’s penchant to check out of runs and into passes.”
“The offense opened the second half with another three-and-out series, and Favre apparently pushed his coach over the edge on the next series. According to a member of the team, Favre checked out of a run and into a pass, then was sacked for a 5-yard loss by Panthers cornerback Dante Wesley.”
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID YESTERDAY. THE PROBLEM IS FAVRE DESTROYING THE VIKINGS STRENGTH WHICH IS RUNNING THE BALL WITH AD. Childress is trying to re-center their strategy on running, but then Favre kills it with audbiling to passes so he can have “glory”.
This is the sequence of AD’s runs from 8 min in the 2nd quarter on:
(see http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=291220029&period=2)
- A.Peterson left tackle 7 yards
- A.Peterson left end for 10 yards
- A.Peterson up the middle for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN (sick run, if you watched the game)
THEN PETERSON DOES NOT GET ANOTHER CARRY UNTIL OUR THIRD OFFENSIVE SERIES OF THE 3RD QUARTER! Why? Because Favre checked out of runs on the first two 2nd half possessions (READ THE ARTICLE ABOVE). So tell me again how Carolina “took away our running game.”
I love the Vikings, but this will kill them.
dude...
your bias is showing.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Dec 22, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
answer my question
You were the one who wanted to just chalk it up to “Carolina took away our running game.” How do you then explain Peterson getting 7, 10, 4 +TD, yards (above) but then the Vikings (read: Favre) not running it again for three series?
What do you even mean “my bias is showing?” What is my bias? That I actually watch the game, analyze what the problems are, and then say it?
Your bias is drinking the Favre Kool-Aid and thinking nothing is wrong with their offensive philosophy.
well you have a point
but Childress is also not known for making good changes during the game. So I can see where AZF would think that Favre has the right and ability to call off plays at the line. Maybe he’s getting a bit ahead of himself and thinking he can win these games by himself. I don’t know all I hear is a bunch of whining which worries me more than losing. When a team starts whining they have already given up.
with more intensity
I think it’s all the capital letters in your first post that makes people feel justified in dismissing your arguments. I’m not anti-Favre yet. but I’m worried about the direction of the team.
If you’d like another stat we only ran the ball 14 times all game. That worries me a lot.
Should Favre be audibling out of these plays? I don’t know, I don’t really trust Chilly’s playcalling any more than Favre’s, but it would be nice to know if Favre has ever audibled into a run play from a pass play. If not then it starts to get a little suspect.
A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.
Everybody loved Favres audibles when they work.
He guesses wrong sometimes, but for the most part he audibles for the right reasons. If the o-line could have blocked better and TE/WR’s catch/hold onto the ball the Vikes win this game. The reason the Vikes allowed over 100yards for the first time in forever is because of all the 3 and outs.
Bernard, Percy and AP oh my!
Your BIAS...
Is Anti-Favre.
I am on record stating that our problem at the moment is our OLine, not our Quarterback.
If he is or if he isn’t audibling away from the original play called is not our biggest issue.
NOTHING was working in the Cardinals or the Panthers game – and I blame the OLine.
Run block or Pass block – do at least one of them well (preferably both).
You look at the offensive performance and immediately blame Favre for it’s problems – your bias.
I see us getting beat at the line of scrimmage, where EVERYTHING starts – my bias.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Dec 22, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
from what i saw..
Childress had every reason to yell his arse of at our atrocious defense. But how they were running the offense left me in a rage with the coaches. Mckinnie was getting beat every snap by peppers, and what do they elect to do, Put a freaking backup in there. While the whole time on the other side they are doubling sometimes trippling Jared Allen (by the way where was ray edwards, i think robison is a much better pass rusher than him). These coaches need to get it together, there is so much talent but they don’t even know how to use it. And as for peterson, RUN HIM TO THE LEFT!! Also peterson is in a major slump right now, why not switch it up and let chester get the bulk of the carries, he is still an excellent back and he still poseses big play capability.
whatever
This is what happens when you have a weak coach. The players don’t respect him or his calls so they change them because they think they know better than he does. Look at how they described him yelling at them during half time. Was sort of funny? Like I was an adolesent? Hell I have been in the locker room when my coach ripped our team a new one and I don’t think I even thought it was funny. Usually I was to pissed at myself to say or do much about what the coach was yelling about.
Not a good sign when the team is saying this kind of thing. Childress you can either be a hardass or a players coach. Dressign up as a stewardess took away your hard ass card so find a new way to get your team hyped up.
+10
This is a prime opportunity to lose the locker room if Childress isn’t careful. If the players respect him it’s time for the other captains to talk to Favre and tell him he has to be a team player. If Childress doesn’t have the locker room and he loses a power struggle to Favre and the players we are in serious trouble.
I’m not convinced Childress has what it takes to be a head coach, but marginalizing him is still a recipe for disaster. If Childress’ pride get wounded he’s been known to do really stupid things. Marcus Robinson found that out the hard way.
This would be the perfect time to Childress to dress up in that Catwoman suit i sent him. Swish his hips into the locker room and cut loose with the bull whip. Simultaneously being humorous and a disciplinarian. I think it’s the only solution.
A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.
Totally agree
Childress is looking like a total boob because of all of this. For as brainy as he is trying to be, this has the potential to implode the team in the way everyone thought it was going to happen when the team first signed Favre.
Laughable? Ouch. You out the door Childress.
Head over to http://purplejesus.wordpress.com for the best/worst written and poorly made Vikings jokes in the blogosphere!
by Purple Jesus Diaries on Dec 22, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
Chilly has done nothing but make the team better every year.
The Vikings have also drafted as good as any team in the NFL since his arrival. First sign of adversity and your ready to hang Chilly, please.
Bernard, Percy and AP oh my!
plenty of blame to go around...
there are plenty of things to blame this “rapid decline” on but the thing i am most concerned with is the lack of intensity this team is showing… too bad i wasted so much energy cheering for the cowboys to beat the saints when my team plays (and coaches) like they all have a turd in their pants when they have a real shot at home field advantage throughout the playoffs…
"Somewhere in Minnesota, a child becomes a Vikings fan and wonders if they will win a Super Bowl in their lifetime"
by Skol!dTimer on Dec 23, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
First sign of adversity?
Chilly excels at finding adversity and I’ve been ready to hang him for some time, thank you very much.
Zygi Wilf has done nothing but make this team better every year, by using his checkbook to sign guys like Hutch and Allen, by hiring Rick Spielman (after the Fran Foley debacle) and upgrading the teams facilities and staff. Sometimes the team has missed, players like Madieu Williams and Bernard Berrian are grossly over-paid, but that happens when you try to get the best people you can. He also missed with Childress
He’s had to be fair and give Chilly some time to prove himself, but he has given Chilly everything he has asked for, at great expense, and now Chilly is mad at the quarterback he brought in to bail him out of the mess he’s created at that position, because he’s still wants to believe he’s an infallible offensive genius. He was even supposed to be a quarterback development specialist—yeah, how did that go?
But people just keep repeating, "two more wins each year, brought in Favre, drafted AP, best coach ever."
He certainly deserves some credit for the roster, but so do a lot of people within the organization. When it comes to coaching his players on the field on game day, he still looks like he has trouble matching wits against most of the other coaches in the league and putting his incredibly talented players in the best positions to make plays.
As I’ve said before with all the talent on this team all Childress needs to be is the Trent Dilfer of head coaches to take us to the SB—and I think he could maybe pull that off. But I’m afraid he may be the Jay Cutler of head coaches instead.
A good coach makes his team better, he doesn’t wait for a better team to make him look good.
Nobody can be surprised
that this is happening with Favre. Going into the season, back when my rage over the fact that we signed Favre was at its height, my biggest question was, What will Childress do when Favre starts calling audibles, and starts taking risks?
Frankly, I am shocked that he was even said anything. My guess would have been that he would just sit back and watch, and pat Brent on the backside when he trotted to the sideline, chinstrap dangling, turnover still fresh…That said, Childress has found a way to do something even WORSE: Passive aggression! He brought it up with Favre, then backed down.
My opinion is that if a QB can’t do something simple, like say…hand the ball off on 3rd and 10 with a 10 point lead, when you have a chance to run off 35 seconds OR make Green Bay call a time out…well, that QB needs to take a seat on the bench and eat a slice of humble pie.
Oh no Favre audibles. Let’s all panic like little girls. That’s what good qb’s do. Nobody ever says anything when Manning audibles. Chilly needs to remember that his qb has been in the league for almost 20 years.
Chilly just had an awful game. Play calling was disasterous. Not calling a time out, and stopping the clock, when we had Carolina pinned in their end zone as time was ticking at the end of the 1st half is unacceptable. Chilly needs to reevaluate himself, and come back strong for the Bears game.
Manning is
essentially the offensive coordinator of the Colts. Comparing what manning does to the type of audible that Childress is reacting to is ridiculous. The Colts offense is designed to allow Manning to do that throughout the game. Favre isn’t that kind of thinker, he does not have the same grasp on the X’s and O’s that Manning does. Favre is more about experience; he has seen it all, he has a great feel for the game, great instincts. When he calls an audible it is less calculated.
And you are ignoring the fact that we aren’t just talking about audibles, we are talking about situational plays. Favre IS allowed, and willing, and able to call audibles throughout the game. But when we are trying to run the clock out, Favre shouldn’t be trying to run up the score on the Packers. (Of course, he didn’t just sign with us to get back at Green Bay, right? err…)
If Manning called an audible in that situation (this is ignoring the fact that the Colts probably wouldn’t even run in this situation anyway, because that is not their style of offense), he would have called a play to try to get a first down. Favre just sent Berrian on a fly. Great call.
OK, If you choose
to ignore the word “essentially,” and not read the rest of the post, I guess that is fine. But, if you really don’t see that Manning is practically a player-coach, then you are just not paying attention, and that is fine too.
Oh so all the comments from Vikings WR’s talking about Favre is like a coach to them means absolutely nothing.
But when you say something ridiculous like Manning is the offensive coordinator you lose credibility.
I'm glad it so slow at work
So I can sit here and chat with you. Just read what I am saying and respond to that, instead of getting caught up on whether I said Manning is an OC or not an OC (by the way, I said he is ESSENTIALLY an OC, didn’t think I would have to explain what I meant by that). Yes, Favre has a lot to teach other players…I actually acknowledged that, too (“Favre is more about experience; he has seen it all, he has a great feel for the game, great instincts” were my exact words).
I meant that Manning is a player-coach in the sense that he goes out and has his hand in the game plan from Wednesday right until the final gun. I am trying to make a very simple distinction here, and actually not trying to argue with you about this. If nothing else, do you really think Favre should be allowed to override Childress on something like when to run the clock down and when to air it out?
"I meant that Manning is a player-coach in the sense that he goes out and has his hand in the game plan from Wednesday right until the final gun."
Oh you’re right. All Favre does is show up on Sundays for the game. What was I thinking.
dude
you are outrageous. do you get punched in the face often?
Care to reply to anything other than picking apart semantics?
he doesn’t ever really have any substance to his rebuttals.
by iseepurplepeople on Dec 22, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
COLTS = PASSING TEAM, VIKINGS (should) = RUNNING TEAM
That is the difference. We are built to run the ball, control time of possession, then play-action off the (big) run threat named Adrian Peterson.
Favre is now turning us into a pass-first team, which will NOT work in the long run. He was doing well early because other teams were still respecting the run; now opponents are not and Favre is getting picked apart by coverage and pass-rush.
Don’t believe me? Listen to Shiancoe at 1:19 into the clip below:
“We didn’t play Vikings football. We didn’t establish the run. The run sets up our passing game, we are a running team first, then we are a passing team. I think we are 60/40 [Run/Pass]. Sometimes we turn into the ’98 Rams, and we need a reality check.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz8PImiOfBs
Did you all hear that? We should be a running team, 60/40 Run/Pass. But look what Brett did in the Carolina game: 14 runs, 27 passes (+4 sacks on attempted passing plays). That is 31% run, 69% pass. And don’t tell me it was because we were losing because we were winning 7-6 until the 4th quarter. Meanwhile, we win the Bengals game because we ran 37 times and threw 30 (55% run, 45% pass).
Favre’s EGO is turning the Vikings into a pass-happy team.
Nobody wins Superbowls anymore running the ball.
In the end against the best teams you have to be able to pass. The Steelers, Giants and Colts all had to pass to win in the SB. The same can be said of the 3 Patriot titles and the Cards who just missed last year.
Bernard, Percy and AP oh my!
I also remember
seeing a stat a few years ago that the same is true for defense. The teams that win the Super Bowl tend to have very good pass defenses, and the same correlation is not true for teams with very good run defenses. I don’t have documentation to back that up though. Anybody remember that?
If he's going to override coaches playcalling
than he better be damn sure the play he audibles to works.
I would like to see
A) How often he’s really audibled out of a run into a pass
B) How many times that play worked
and…
C) How many times he’s audibled out of a pass into a run
D) How many times that play worked
Seriously, how many times last year did the Vikings NOT audible out of a run, and Chester or AP got stuffed. I’d like to see the stats on that as well.
I mean, it’s not like ESPN is trying to gin up interest for their upcoming Monday night game or anything like that.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
i’d like to see those stats too.
unlike last year though, when chester or ap would get stuffed, we’d just keep running it and eventually something good would happen.
not this year. this year instead we’ve started passing it and now bad things are happening.
by iseepurplepeople on Dec 22, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
This is a whole lot of nothing. The media and haters are trying to make more out of Favre #s in december than what they really are. Minn looked like a team that just found out it won the division and played uninspired. Play calling was bad as well.
I dont think its panic time. We have seen what this team can do when it comes to play.
favre's numbers
2004 rating through first 11 games – 96.76
65.82% through first 11
22td 11int
2004 rating through last 5 games – 90.1
61.66% through last 5
8td 6int
7-4 first 11, 3-2 last 5
55.4 rating in 1 playoff game with 1td 4int in a loss
2005 rating through first 11 games – 81.84
63.35% through first 11
19td 19int
2005 rating through last 5 games – 55
57.00% through last 5
1td 10int
2-9 first 11, 2-3 last 5
2006 rating through first 11 games – 76.96
56.12% through first 11
14td 10int
2006 rating through last 5 games – 63.98
54.38% through last 5
4td 8int
4-7 first 11, 4-1 last 5
2007 rating through first 11 games – 102.62
68.85% through first 11
22td 8int
2007 rating through last 5 games – 77.8
59.82% through last 11
6td 7int
10-1 first 11, 3-2 last 5
137.6 rating in 1st playoff game with 3td and 0int in a win
70.7 rating in 2nd playoff game with 2td and 2int in a loss
2008 rating through first 11 games – 94.53
70.82% through first 11
20td 13int
2008 rating through last 5 games – 55.38
56.56% through last 5
2td 9int
8-3 first 11, 1-4 last 5
2009 rating through first 11 games – 112.95
70.85% through first 11
24td 3int
2009 rating through last 3 games – 75.43
62.13% through last 3
3td 4int
10-1 first 11, 1-2 last 3
but i’m just a hater.
by iseepurplepeople on Dec 22, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
And he also has a winning record in thos months as well. In stats there are more things to go into making the numbers than one thing. Favre is the reason this is a top 3 team and people are ready to crucify the guy for a loss(which wasn’t his fault) and jump ship. its not age, its not fatigue it was a matter of both lines getting their asses kicked.
What I dont understans is why they didn’t throw short more to beat the rush. Do slants and screens and you will make the d ease up.
Tell me this, would anyone in Minn be thinking sb with TJ right now??? i dont think so. Enjoy the fact that this team has a real qb for a change that is giving the team a chance to win a sb and take the “empty trophy case” jokes away from it rivals
Can't enjoy
winning when I hate our quarterback so much. At least T-jack is a viking through and through, whatever the hell I mean by that. I don’t want to win a super bowl with brent.
I’d like to see favre come up and snap the ball faster. Dont stand there calling out assignments, just go. catch the defense off guard maybe?
This guy has taken your team to 11-3. Peterson has not done much this year as he has in the past. Hate him, but this team would not be seriuos contenders without him.
If the Viks keep putting everything on AP’s back he will be done by age 29. Having favre is at least preserving the guys body a little.
Remember 11-3 division winners and will most likely finish 13-3. But you guys are right, he sucks and is taking the team down.
Oh and TJ would be gone in heartbeat if there was a team dunb enough to take him. He’s a “true” viking as long as his agent doesnt hear the phone ring.
If being a fan was
only about winning and losing, almost all fans would be miserable always. I am just stubborn, I know, but I never wanted Favre, and for me, it is not worth it. I certainly don’t mean to suggest that all should agree with me.
We probably shouldn’t have drafted Jackson, but Childress also basically botched that situation from the start.
By the way, 13-3 teams actually don’t fare well in the playoffs these days. In the last 10 years 12-4 teams are 4-1 in the SB, and 13-3 teams are 1-4. Doesn’t mean much, but it is interesting.
waaaaaaa! waaaaaaaaa!
ahhh the truth finally comes out. (shocked) The whole issue for you is that you don’t like Brett. It’s not about his play, or audibles. It’s just that you don’t like the guy. haha.
I can unsderstand your dislike. Seeing a guy that gave your team fits for so many years might be a tough pill to swallow when he come to play for you. But if I can root for the vikings after 17 years of being a loyal GB fan, anyone can llive with a rival helping you out. Trust me it wasnt easy to do, but I want the guy to win more than anything and can put my feelings aside for a year or two.
you always have been
and when he wins the last 2 he will be 3-2 in the month and it will all be an afterthought for the bye as will your comments
defense wasn't bad
i don’t think defense was the problem. they held the panthers to 6 points through 3 quarters. they got whipped in the fourth quarter because the offense couldn’t generate more the 5 consecutive plays the whole game.
that defense was worn out in the fourth quarter. time of possession was almost 2:1 in carolina’s favor.
by iseepurplepeople on Dec 22, 2009 3:42 PM CST reply actions
The problem with
the defense is that we can’t tackle. Last year we were one of the best tackling teams. This year all we do is over-pursue, and arm tackle. Ugly.
all teams have that to some extent. i’m not saying we’re the best defense in the league because i don’t think we are, but i’m not too worried about our defense.
it’s good enough to hold teams below 20 points a game when our offense controls the clock which should be all we need.
by iseepurplepeople on Dec 22, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
I've always thought
that our offense makes things a lot harder on the defense. Not as true most of this year, but in 06-08 the defense was a lot better than their numbers, mostly because the offense couldn’t stay on the field, and gave opponents great field position. I did think the defense played pretty bad on Sunday, but in general I agree with what you are saying.
Antoine Winfield had maybe his worst game as a Viking. The Steve Smith TD was just so bad. Rarely do you see somebody of Antoine’s caliber make such a physical mistake like that, turning around, and not continuing to run as he located the ball. Really weird, sort of sums up how bad of a night it was.
Shiancoe thinks Vikings (read: Favre) passing too much
It’s not just some of us fans who think Favre is making the Vikes pass too much, now the PLAYERS are saying it also. Listen to Shiancoe (who makes a living catching the ball and still says) at 1:19 into the clip below:
“We didn’t play Vikings football. We didn’t establish the run. The run sets up our passing game, we are a running team first, then we are a passing team. I think we are 60/40 [Run/Pass]. Sometimes we turn into the ’98 Rams, and we need a reality check.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz8PImiOfBs
Did you all hear that? We should be a running team, 60/40 Run/Pass. But look what Brett did in the Carolina game: 14 runs, 27 passes (+4 sacks on attempted passing plays). That is 31% run, 69% pass. And don’t tell me it was because we were losing because we were winning 7-6 until the 4th quarter. Meanwhile, we win the Bengals game because we ran 37 times and threw 30 (55% run, 45% pass).
Favre’s EGO is turning the Vikings into a pass-happy team. Mark my words, we either return to a running team or we lose our first (and only) playoff game.
Seriously. You know nothing about the QB. I’m guessing your closet is filled with Brady and Manning T shirts.
Teams that win the SB do so passing.
In the NFL these days you play the best of the best in the NFC/AFC Championship or Superbowl your going to win passing more often. It how each SB winning team the last 8 years have done it. Terrel Davis was the last RB to make a big difference on th biggest of stages. Maybe Jamal Lewis with the Ravens a bit but that is it.
Bernard, Percy and AP oh my!
Balance
I agree you must be able to pass to win the SB. But you don’t have to throw 70% of the time (as we did last game and lost). And you are wrong to say “[passing is] how each SB winning team the last 8 years have done it.” Look at the Giants two years ago:
NFC Championship Game: 39 runs, 40 pass
Superbowl: 26 runs, 34 pass
And you say “Terrel Davis was the last RB to make a big difference on th biggest of stages. Maybe Jamal Lewis with the Ravens a bit but that is it.” So you don’t think Adrian Peterson is just as good as (if not better than) Davis or Lewis? I know I do.
And if you follow your logic (passing is everything) then why did the Vikings even draft AD? You would rather they drafted Calvin Johnson or some OT who can run block (i.e. Arizona’s Levi Brown). Great logic buddy.
I was saying that in Conference Champioships, but especially the Superbowl teams have to pass more to win.
You might have to run the ball to get there, but once in the SB you will have to pass 60% of the time or more to win.
The biggest of stages is the conference championships and more so the Super Bowl. Adrian has not played at that stage yet.
As for the Giants they were built on a running game all year when they won the SB. Then in the SB had to throw more to win(34pass, 26rush). My point exactly!
Terrel Davis was the last RB to have a big impact in the Super Bowl! AP has not been there yet and I never said he wasent the calibur of TD or JL.
My logic is when you play in the SB against what will probably be a top 5 rated D, more success will come and has come the last 10 years by throwing the ball.
AP or any running back can help a team get to the biggest stage, but to win it the last 10 years have shown you will have to pass.
Bernard, Percy and AP oh my!
Ace 991
What does any other current running back in the league have to do with past SB, RB performances? I was talking about how things have played out in the past 10 SB’s.
Yes the Vikes should have drafted Adrian to get them to the SB, but once there top teams can usually stop the run and passing has worked more in the SB the last ten years!
Bernard, Percy and AP oh my!
Read below as I destroy your argument
This is the most ridiculously arbitrary statistical claim:
“You might have to run the ball to get there, but once in the SB you will have to pass 60% of the time or more to win.”
Where did you pull this stat out of your ass? In fact, you are flat out WRONG. Examples from Superbowl WINNERS in last decade:
2001 Ravens: 33 runs, 26 passes (=56% run, 44% pass)
2002 Patriots: 25 runs, 27 passes (=48% run, 52% pass)
2003 Buccaneers: 42 runs, 34 passes (=55% run, 45% pass)
2004 Patriots: 35 runs, 48 passes (=42% run, 58% pass)
2005 Patriots: 28 runs, 33 passes (=46% run, 54% pass)
2006 Steelers: 33 run, 22 passes (=60% run, 40% pass)
2007 Colts: 42 runs, 38 passes (=53% run, 47% pass)
2008 Giants: 26 runs, 34 passes (=42% run, 58% pass)
2009 Steelers: 25 runs, 30 passes (=45% run, 55% pass)
LOOK AT THAT! Every single Superbowl winner this decade has passed LESS than your supposed “necessary” 60% of the time, and almost half the time, the winner runs more than 50% of the time!.
And the average Superbowl winner runs 49.7% and passes 50.3% of the time. Essentially exactly a 50/50 balance!!!
So please learn to look up statistics and take an average before you start debating. Running the ball is CRUCIAL to winning “at the biggest stage” AND winning to get there.
Running not quite as crucial as you think
While ‘looking up statistics’ is great and all, what’s actually important is critical thinking and determining how you should interpret the statistics. You provide a bunch of run-pass ratios here but these really don’t tell as much as you think. Footballoutsiders gets credit for the idea that you don’t run to win the game, you win to run. In other words, you don’t win by running, you build a lead so that you may run out the clock. I’ve gone through the play by plays of the superbowls provided. There may be some slight errors here or there, but on the whole it’s pretty close.
2001 Ravens: 33-26 in favor of run
-If we look closely, BAL went up 24-7 late in the third quarter. At this point the ratio was P/R 23-18, after that it was 13-3 in favor of the run (running out the clock)
2002 Patriots: 27-25 (obviously no one ran out the clock in this game)
2003 Tampa Bay: 42-34. At 34-9 the ratio was 30-29 pass.
I’ve charted the other games but most alarming is 2006 when Pit had a 33-22 run ratio. But with a two-score lead at 6:15 to play, they ran 8 out of 9 times. (though this doesn’t say much for the SEA run defense) the same thing happened next year with IND. Look at the IND game, with a two score lead and 5:05 to play they ran 8 straight times. Genereally, the games with a high amount of runs were atleast two score games if not worse.
Basically if we could weed out running out the clock, the ratio is about 55%-45% pass, but I was very conservative here (i.e counting kneel downs as runs or end of the half give ups). Sure its not 60%, but this idea that 50-50 harmony is the key to winning is bogus.
They are both
better QBs than Favre is or ever was, so that would be somewhat understandable. Look, the decision to throw deep instead of hand it off at the end of the first GReen Bay game was selfish. Ego had everything to do with it. Now he is manipulating the media by telling everybody about Childress trying to take him out. Facts.
And if Manning is so much better then why couldnt he will his team over the pats all those years? Kind of makes you think that these great QBs need a little help dont it?
Angryguy, you can’t expect Manning to be able to will his team over the pats all those years when he’s busy being the qb and the offensive coordinator at the same time.
Plus when he’s busy with the game plan from Wed to the final gun. I mean give the guy a break!!!
You almost make me laugh
…to keep from crying. I think the problem here is that being a great QB doesn’t mean you can just “will your team to win” every game. Actually Brent Favre found that out over and over with the Packers: He kept trying to WILL them to win, and threw a lot of picks and made a lot mistakes.
The reasons Manning couldn’t WILL the Colts to win were: Pass interference was not being called as much then, so the Patriots’ DBs were able to play more physical. And, the Patriots were a better team.
Dsludo, do you ever actually talk about football? Would love to hear your thoughts on anything other than arguing about one or two really specific choices of words.
New article on nfl.com
I found this to be a great comment on the nfl.com site. There is a new article " Don’t Blame Brett " up right now. The comment goes on to say:
“Wow, finally a decent article about the so-called Favre -Childress drama. Thank you Vic Carucci for getting your facts straight and not just adding to all the media hype or jumping on the bash Favre train. I really don’t get it to be honest. Do people not want Brett Favre to succeed and have a great season? Are they jealous because they weren’t able to play at his level at 40? What is it, does anyone know?? Peyton Manning is having a great season, he throws 3 picks in a game and no says anything, no one writes an article about it, no one starts giving his December stats…… Favre throws a pick and its like, oh here we go…..its December, its this its that! Favre didn’t want to come out of the game Sunday, yea and? I don’t think 5 years ago, 10 years ago, he would have been agreeable to coming out of the game either!! The great ones want to be out there with their team, trying to rally, trying to win….”
I hate to say it...
But I called this as soon as there was serious speculation that Favre would come out of retirement to join the Vikes.
There is no way that Favre would be able to view Chilly as anything other than “that bald guy that thinks he is in charge”.
I knew the second Chilly tried to bench Favre during something other than garbage time that this issue would arise. Granted, I figured it would be chilly trying to bench Favre because of bad play, NOT because of him getting hit.
This is ironman Favre we are talking about here, not some injury-prone QB. Instead of throwing Kleinsasser and a RB over to the left side to help out Big Mac, Chilly decides to try to bench a guy who ANYONE with half a brain would know would refuse to come off the field.
Did we all notice how the game went severely downhill after the benching attempt? That failed attempt likely cost Chilly the only credibility he has left as a coach. It’s a good thing we gave him that extension.
I still maintain that Chilly should be up in the booth during the game. He has shown time and time again that he makes poor gametime decisions. He is simply a bad decisionmaker when under pressure.
Some people can do it well, others cannot. Chilly cannot.
by Bjorno on Dec 22, 2009 4:49 PM CST via mobile reply actions
sorry but everybody thinks of chilly that way
why not he has never shown us a reason to think other wise besides now.what benching jackson last year to what go back to him he is a fragile player who will take it anyways chilly should not have been extended even if we win the SB.HE SHOULD BE FIRED HE IS NOT A discipline guy or a players guy he’s coordinator.
I agree with half of what you said.
Tjack is not “fragile”, he is a scrambler. When you scramble well, people are less likely to hit your body and more likely to hit your legs.
He may not be the toughest guy ever, but fragile is not a term I would use to describe tjack.
by Bjorno on Dec 22, 2009 5:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
mackman
Exactly. Media’s blowing this way out of proportion, and all we gotta do is just focus on this week’s Monday night game. get everything back on track, hopefully secure that first round bye, and by then people will forget all about this.
Ugh... reading the article (assuming all of it is true)...
It paints a very ugly picture of Favre and Chillys relationship.
Perhaps there really is a “schism” (I hate that word) between Favre and Childress.
I’ve been a strong supporter of Childress. I love his eye for talent and the team has steadily improved under his command. His play calling, while remaining still somewhat predictable, has improved. He challenges better than most coaches, averaging about 40% success verses a league average of around 30%. Hes not without his flaws but he has worked to improve them. His players have stood by him and so have I.
But reading this article, I get the impression that Childress does not have a clear handle on the team. If those quotes from the players are accurate then that means the players don’t respect him. If the players don’t respect him, then they aren’t going to listen to him. If they don’t listen to him then that is a recipe for disaster.
If Childress can’t find a way to win back the players before the end of the season then we are in trouble. Perhaps Childresses extension was a bit premature.
Sunday night fallouts
I have coached football over ten years, and primary job was defense. When I saw the Panthers defensive end keep coming around the end like hen did, why didn’t the Vikings offense coordinator use his head and run A.P. through the tackle hole. Other teams have done it to us. Jared Allen did the same thing against Detroit and the following week they ran right at Jared for big games. Offense coordinator of the Viking need to get his head out of his dufflebag and notice these things, and fix them, if not we can kiss our SuperBowl trip goodbye!
It isn’t Favre fault at all when a coordinator or head coach can’t see their tackle getting their butt kick every play and not changing the play then what can you do.
Exactly.
That is the same reason the ravens destroyed us on those little screen passes to Ray Rice. They used Jared’s strength as a pass rusher to their advantage by putting the ball in the hole behind JA and in front of Greenway.
A good rush will do the dame thing.
by Bjorno on Dec 22, 2009 5:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
EXCELLENT QUESTION - ANSWER: Favre's Ego
You said:
“When I saw the Panthers defensive end keep coming around the end like hen did, why didn’t the Vikings offense coordinator use his head and run A.P. through the tackle hole.”
WHY? Because Favre checked out of runs into passes. It says so in the article:
"But all is not well between Brad and Brett, and the primary difference centers on the quarterback’s penchant to check out of runs and into passes."
"The offense opened the second half with another three-and-out series, and Favre apparently pushed his coach over the edge on the next series. According to a member of the team, Favre checked out of a run and into a pass, then was sacked for a 5-yard loss by Panthers cornerback Dante Wesley."
This is what I have been saying! The Vikes need to RUN the ball with AD to force the D to respect it and back off the rush. Chilly realized this and tried to call runs in the 2nd half, but Favre only wants to pass. Read the damn article people; don’t blame Chilly for his play calling when Favre is changing it.
The Vikes (read: Favre) are wasting Peterson, and I (and those of us who were fans BEFORE this year) hate it. And it will cost them a chance at the Superbowl.
Some of you fans are pathetic...
There is a difference between criticizing a player and ripping him. Up until before the game where we lost to Arizona (Vikings record 10-1), everyone was just riding along the band wagon and high-fived each other on how good Favre was.
Now, a couple of weeks later, with the number two seed in question, Favre’s bashing fans came out of nowhere with " I told you so " banners.
In about seven weeks from now, God forbids, if the Vikings miraculously manage to win the BIG one. Where will THOSE FANS be?
somewhere...
behind a closed door, favre & childress are probably laughing their butts off about all this.
come mon nite, you’ll see them standing next to one another on the sideline smilling, & laughing like old pals.
i wish that people wouldn’t panic so quickly.
by indianavikesfan on Dec 22, 2009 9:35 PM CST reply actions
As an outside observer i have noticed a few things
1.Ace991 and tuckerbjt will never give Favre credit for anything
2. You have only lost 3 games this year I think this is getting blown out of proportion
3. When a team is playing well their fan base seems to over think things ( i’m a saints fan trust me on this )
4.If Brett Favre audibles out of a run play it’s probably because the opposing team is stacking the box
5.Although your recievers are ok they are not great they have to do their part in running correct routes and catching the ball or it makes the QB look bad
6. No QB can play well when his pocket continues to collapse around him
by mississippisaintsfan on Dec 23, 2009 8:10 AM CST reply actions
I probably won't give
him credit for much. But more accurately, I will just never like him or the fact that he is on the Vikings. Obviously I recognize that he is playing very well, and that we wouldn’t be where we are now without him. Even I can admit that he has played a lot better than I thought he would, for longer too. I just don’t like him, and I still think this is going to end badly.
AD 12 carries 35 yards total
That sequence from the play-by-play at http://tinyurl.com/ycbn5ly
Minnesota Vikings at 08:02
1-10-CAR 41 (8:02) (Shotgun) 29-C.Taylor up the middle to CAR 42 for -1 yards (20-C.Gamble; 50-J.Anderson).
2-11-CAR 42 (7:22) 28-A.Peterson left tackle to CAR 35 for 7 yards (92-D.Lewis).
3-4-CAR 35 (6:45) (Shotgun) 4-B.Favre pass short left to 29-C.Taylor to CAR 28 for 7 yards (50-J.Anderson).
1-10-CAR 28 (6:06) 28-A.Peterson left end to CAR 18 for 10 yards (41-C.Munnerlyn).
1-10-CAR 18 (5:44) 4-B.Favre pass short middle to 18-S.Rice to CAR 4 for 14 yards (31-R.Marshall) [92-D.Lewis].
1-4-CAR 4 (5:07) 28-A.Peterson up the middle for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
####
You forgot to mention the passes in that sequence, which was the best the O-line played all day.
Here are the rest of AD’s running touches:
1-10-MIN 42 (13:32) 28-A.Peterson right tackle to MIN 45 for 3 yards (75-H.Thomas).
2-3-CAR 40 (11:46) 28-A.Peterson right end to CAR 41 for -1 yards (52-J.Beason).
1-10-CAR 25 (5:26) 28-A.Peterson up the middle to CAR 22 for 3 yards (75-H.Thomas).
2-7-CAR 22 (4:46) 28-A.Peterson up the middle to CAR 21 for 1 yard (50-J.Anderson).
1-10-MIN 36 (10:50) 28-A.Peterson up the middle to MIN 38 for 2 yards (50-J.Anderson).
3-1-MIN 45 (9:45) 28-A.Peterson right tackle to MIN 44 for -1 yards (53-N.Diggs, 50-J.Anderson).
1-10-MIN 36 (8:24) 28-A.Peterson up the middle to MIN 40 for 4 yards (31-R.Marshall).
1-10-MIN 48 (7:16) 28-A.Peterson right tackle to 50 for 2 yards (50-J.Anderson).
1-10-MIN 15 (14:44) 28-A.Peterson right end to MIN 16 for 1 yard (95-C.Johnson, 92-D.Lewis).
You really think that is going to get it done?
I’m not putting it on the AP, nor even the O-line. I’m putting it on the coaching. They can’t even do what every other team does against Jared—give the tackle some help when it’s obvious that a dominant player like Peppers is playing like a man possessed. That is absolutely piss-poor coaching.
Kleinsasser shouldn’t be out catching passes, he should be helping block Peppers so Favre and AP can do what they do best.
This was supposed to be a reply to comment #1
On how Favre’s audible are killing us.
It’s the O-line coach that is killing us, when he doesn’t adjust to reality on the field and lets a dominant player go all day long without adjusting to control him. See J. Peppers…
Look at where those rushes were going
Not a single one delayed left, in the hole after Peppers bull rushes McKinnie or Hicks yet again.
Coaching—O coordinator, O-line, head coach…all have responsibility for this crap.
Except of course for that one good sequence leading to a TD
Two fof those three rushes were to the left.
The only time in the game. And it worked
Coaching….they have to stop being stubborn and start being smart.
Agreed.
I’m glad you got back to the real issue here. The weirdest thing about this entire topic is that Childress brought all of this up during the 3rd quarter of the Carolina game. I agree that it doesn’t seem warranted in this situation. Maybe Childress has had problems with Favre in other games, but…weird timing.
I think it is OK for Kleinsasser to catch passes, but it shouldn’t be part of the scheme or anything. He is a good outlet, and I think fixed that fumbling problem that we saw his rookie year. It just feels like the entire coaching staff has trouble adjusting during the game. Bevell has nice stretches, but Childress and Frazier, as you say, are too stubborn sometimes.
I think we need to mix it up a little. Just to keep people honest: On a 1st and ten between the 30’s, lets bring in T-jack for Favre, put him in the shotgun with AP, and run Harvin in motion and let Jackson run a little option play. I’m not saying become a wildcat team, but plant that seed in the defense’s mind. Then, maybe on one drive in the second quarter, bring out shaincoe and kleinsasser as tight ends, put tahi at FB, and dugan at h-back. POWER run for a series. Anybody remember that game at Lambeau in 2001 when Spergon Wynn started? And we ran like 13 times in a row to start the game? Do something like that, again, just to show the defense another look. And to give future opponents something else to prepare for. Last year we used to run against 8 and 9 man fronts because it was all we could do, we had no choice. Now we suddenly cant do it anymore??? Make it work!
Do you ever really think Farve cared about the Vikings??
Farve is footballs equivalent of a $5,000 a night hooker. Childress is the john. This was evident at the beginning when Childress allowed him to take a “pass” on those annoying pre-season training workouts and later became his personal chauffeur. Because, like a $5,000 a night hooker, Brett is “special”.
While his talents are proven, Farve comes with a lot of baggage at this stage of his career. Viking fans have to realize that he came to Minnesota because it allowed him a way of sticking it to Green Bay. I’m sure he would like to win a Super Bowl while he’s there, but only because it would further allow him to script his own “legacy”; a talent he has shown an unparalled ability for throughout his career. Winning has everything to do with him and not for whatever team he’s whoring himself out to. That is why he wants a win to be credited to him. He wants to make the spectacular last second pass to win the game. He doesn’t want Peterson rushing for multiple touchdowns and getting the credit for the victory. He hasn’t cared about the “team” since his best years with the Packers ended.
The player I used to love has become a self-centered, self-absorbed ego maniac. That was never so clear as when he seized the opportunity at the post game interview to make sure that everyone knew he, not the coach, was “in charge”. Making this point was more important to him than was any concern for the ensuing drama that he had to know his comments would create. Favre is a master at using his “good old country boy” routine to manipulate the media however he wishes.
With that said, if I were a Viking fan, I might accept his personality flaws so long as his selfish motives also brought a Super Bowl victory for my team. But I think in the end, he will play a significant role in the Vikings not making it. And after it’s over, he will yet again dish out his patented “good old boy” b.s. and the media will eat it up as usual. They will come up with a whole list of reasons as to why it wasn’t Brett’s fault that the Vikings didn’t make it all the way and point out that the team wouldn’t have gotten as far as they did without him. When he’s finished with his teary eyed speech about having given it his best shot, etc., etc., he will head back down to Mississippi and write his second biography outlining his path to immortality. And the Vikings will be left with a coach who no longer has the respect of his real team.
Masterful synthesis
This piece perfectly captures the double-edged sword nature of Favre. His skills should be the perfect complement to AD and the run game, but as you said:
“He doesn’t want Peterson rushing for multiple touchdowns and getting the credit for the victory.”
And all Vikings fans are hoping that:
“if I were a Viking fan, I might accept his personality flaws so long as his selfish motives also brought a Super Bowl victory for my team.”
We can only hope, but be prepared for disaster.
Mississippisaintsfan......
U hit the nail on the head !!!!! "1.Ace991 and tuckerbjt will never give Favre credit for anything
2. You have only lost 3 games this year I think this is getting blown out of proportion
3. When a team is playing well their fan base seems to over think things ( i’m a saints fan trust me on this )
4.If Brett Favre audibles out of a run play it’s probably because the opposing team is stacking the box
5.Although your recievers are ok they are not great they have to do their part in running correct routes and catching the ball or it makes the QB look bad
6. No QB can play well when his pocket continues to collapse around him"
For the record…I did not want Favre either…BUT, one has to admit he has been ALOT better than TJack would have ever been. As the game goes on, Chilly needs to make proper adjustments to protect Favre. Offense line does their job, even if they need help from TE’s, then Vikings offense will be just fine, which will keep Vikings defense off the field all the time, keeping our defense fresher and stronger.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Daily Norseman
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
