2010 Draft -Part 2- What Type of Players
by lifelongvike on Dec 4, 2009 1:02 PM CST
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PrintIn Part 1 we looked at what the Vikings need. Most people believe we need a future quarterback, A future replacement for Phat pat, and a Cornerback. Lets not forget. If the Vikings have no draft picks at all they will be very good next year.
So the Vikes are looking to improve by taking the best available player that will make an impact now with the 1st round pick or a sure fire future starter to fill a future need. The three positions above fit that description. However the draft is a funny creature. Its hard to predict when an Aaron Rodgers will fall down the board or a great linebacker will fall into your lap. The only thing you can do is prepare your list of prospects that fit your team and trust your teams evaluation of those players. Percy Harvin is a good example. Most prognosticators had the Vikings needing and taking Vontae Davis, a cornerback, last year. He ended up being taken by Miami and has started each game this year. But who could say Harvin wasn't a better pick. The coaching staff believed in what they saw. I'm glad they did. So lets see what requirements we need for the three positions we identified above.
Quarterback- 2010 is the year of the quarterback. All eligible sophomores,juniors, and seniors will be in this draft to avoid a rookie salary cap expected in 2011. There are also at least 5 teams that desperately need a QB. The success of Mark Sanchez has changed the minds of the NFL that experience is what matters most. But the proof is not in on this theory yet. There will be much risk in this years pool.
What matters most about your Quarterback is whether or not he has the tools needed to run "Your team's system"
Since the Vikes have a long term coach and offensive coordinator it is doubtful they will change the system. So we need a quarterback with a strong arm, accuracy, and experience from under center. If you don't believe this then you haven't seen what Brett Farve does. He is successful because he throws an accurate rocket after a fake to the running back. He throws an accurate slant. He throws an accurate outpatern. The Vikings need this type of QB to run the system in the future. I like Jimmy Claussen and Jake Locker ( so does everyone else) to fit this bill. I don't like shotgun QB's with weak arms like Colt McCoy. I like Colt and think he can be with Indy a long time. Just not for the Vikes. I like Ryan Mallet for his size. His experience is risky. Whoever the Vikes draft in the first round will have to be stronger and with more upside than T-Jack, I don't think that person is out there except one of the two I mentioned. I expect both of these guys to go in the top 10. So I see the Vikes taking a second round QB they believe is a steal (like Mallet) or waiting till the 4th round to pick up someone to challenge T-Jack.
Defensive Tackle- 2010
There are two defensive systems. a 4-3 and a 3-4. Leslie Frasier is our defensive cooridnator and could easily be gone soon as a head coach somewhere. No matter who comes in I expect we will stay with the 4-3. This means that each tackle on the line must stop the run and rush up the middle. The Vikes succeed by getting huge athletic tackles. This might sound odd but I believe many teams pass on this type of player because he is to big.
Finding these guys is almost as rare as a great left side OT. Terrance Cody at 6'5'' and 378 lbs is just this kind of player. Mock drafts have him going anywhere from #10 to #25. If the Viking coaches think this guy can pass rush then I wouldn't be surprised to see them move up a few draft spots. If he does not grade out to them I think they will find an appropriate person to learn the position in later rounds. I just don't see them changing their strategy and going with a 300 lb guy with a high pass rush motor. These types rarely can stop the run. In our NFC north division stopping the run has been very successful for the Vikes.
Cornerback-2010
The Vikings are believers in the Tampa ll cover defense. Basically a zone coverage on every down. Its a good defense if you have quick athletic linebackers that can cover the middle zone and a Great defense if you have one excellent Corner back. Every great wide receiver can beat a zone. Simply run fast to the open area and catch the ball. But not many average WR can consistently beat a zone. So, if the Vikes had one excellent fast cover corner they can eliminate the great wide receiver and have the zone cover the rest. Now I realize that every team wants a great cover corner. But not all of them have the luxury of picking that position. This years crop of CB's have the top two players listed as 5'11" tall. The Vikings need height to help cover all of the new tall wide receivers in the league. One solution could be to draft a tall Safety but in my opinion we need a tall corner. If Patrick Robison from Florida State is available at our pick he might be to fast to pass on even at 5'11'. But If someone falls in this draft to the Vikings in the first round that is not a corner back, I bet my britches they do whatever they can to get Perrish Cox out of Oklahoma State. A 6'1" fast CB.
So, what type of players do you think we need? At this stage I'm not as concerned with which players as I am with what type we should be looking to root out in the process. Any comments would be appreciated.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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We need to go QB unless
the Chilly and Co. think we are “good enough.” If not there, I’d suggest Safety, mainly because we don’t really have much depth there. Sure, theres upside in Jamarca Sanford and Frampton, but would you really want to risk upside over someone like a Taylow Mays? He is a hard hitter, mostly a in the box type of Safety. I don’t know how well he can cover, but he is fast as hell also.
Taylor Mays
Most pundits have Mays in the top 10 picks of the draft. If any of the “top 10” happen to fall far enough I agree we should take him but I don’t expect him to be available. we would need to look at the 3rd or4th best safety for our position.
I’m still concerned that the wrong type of Q.B. will be whats left for us at the lower end of the 1st round
If any of the "top 10" happen to fall far enough I agree we should take him
Before I post more on this thread, I first have to agree wholeheartly on this point. When you are picking as low as we will be (come on, 32nd!) you have to take any position projected in the top 10 that falls that low. You just don’t have the luxury of being picky. If CJ Spiller, for example, is ranked like 5th on the Vikings big board they have to pick him if he is available at 32nd. Even with AP on board, you can’t pass on super bargains of that caliber. Of course, I’m a packrat so I may be a little biased.
GO 4 SUH
Trade your entire draft or most of it to move up and get SUH out of Nebraska. The guy is a one man wrecking crew. He is double teamed all the time and still makes plays. The vikes always stay pat in the draft and never make any bold moves. Go for it . Put SUH next to Kevin Williams and you’ll have the best tackle tandem in the league for the next 5 years guaranteed. He’s the best defensive player in the draft. We can shore up any other position we need through free agency.
Mays is a interesting character
With his size and speed Mays will play linebacker in the NFL, remember fellow norsemen Brian Urlacher played safety in college i believe that Mays fits that decription, Ben Leber is the man but you put Mays in that linebacker core with Greenway and henderson its the making of a beautiful and painful thing
by mad_wacker39 on Dec 5, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Don't fix what ain't broke
No need to spend a high pick on a LB at all. That unit might not be a strength for us right now but it certain isn’t one of our weakest units either. Don’t waste a first day pick on LB at all in my opinion. There are many other glaring needs.
As for Mays, I’d love to have him at safety. Most likely replacing Tyrell Johnson.
Ahem
The success of Mark Sanchez has changed the minds of the NFL that experience is what matters most
I would call him less than successful
Why do you kill threads????
I would
The success of Sanchez doesn’t come from his won/loss record. It comes from his arm strength, poise in the pocket, ease of movement, not getting rattled. Almost all rookie QB’s (including Manning) throw rookie interceptions. The questions about Sanchez was if a 16 game college QB could fit in with the NFL. He has certainly proved that he can run the team for years to come, excluding injury.
Jevan Snead in the late second or early 3rd round
Jared Allen is to football what Jason Voorhees is to Lake Crystal.
Percy Harvin is Devin Hester, except someone very smart decided to teach him how to catch and run routes.
i want Snead,Locker or Clausen and maybe Bradford
i think McCoy and Tebow are going to be busts, im not all the way sold on Bradford
Vikings 4 the superbowl
Bradford
Bradford is a question mark only as to his injury. He is certainly accurate but his arm is rated as average. Looks prone to injury to me. If I had to guess today I believe Cluassen, Locker, & Bradford go in the top 10 picks. The Jags will probably take Tebow (for ticket sale reasons).
That leaves McCoy,Snead,Pike, Mallet,and Canfield as possible late 1st or 2nd rounders. I doubt that 5 teams will pick a QB in the second round. Thats unheard of. Many good prospects will be available in the later rounds. For a real interesting guy check out John Skelton from Fordham. 6’5"’ 258lbs.
Projected 6th round or 7th.
Snead would be awesome
This is a guy that had heisman potential at the beginning of the year he is the most legitmate pick in my eyes, I still believe that Bradford Jake Locklear or Jimmy Clausen are taken before we pick, Snead is a good QB he has had a bad year
by mad_wacker39 on Dec 5, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
The white guy named Jevan
I agree that Clausen, Locker, and Bradford won’t be there for us. But Snead had more than just a bad year. It was pretty much aweful. He’s tanked his stock this year. He’s probably a 4th-5th rounder at this point. We’ll see how he performs at workouts.
Snead
Snead certainly fits the mold of our team. The problem is he is not accurate. Less than 60% accuracy is not good and he has performed horribly in the big games this year. He will need to do well in a senior bowl or the combines. He is a big strong guy though.
What the Vikings need in the 2010 draft is the best player available
Best player available. That’s how we got Randy Moss, Adrian Peterson, and Percy Harvin. That’s the best draft strategy.
2010 will be a rich, deep draft. The Vikings will be a rich, deep team. Most players are set to return. The only expected losses might include: Brett Favre, Pat Williams, and Chester Taylor. It’s the kind of situation where the Vikings might be in position to take some risks with their picks. The only risk I wouldn’t take would be to trade any of the picks. You want to draft seven players and bring them all into camp and then find out who you’ve got.
Team need is lesser in importance in drafting unless you are in rebuilding mode. For example, the Lions should take Russell Okung, the LT, no matter what, even if Suh were available. This is because both are blue chips and potentially perennial Pro Bowlers. The Lions must protect the career life span of Matthew Stafford, however, and improve their running attack. Thus, they cannot choose BPA due to their needs in rebuilding. They must draft offensive line.
In the 2010 draft, the Vikings will be looking to improve and maintain the team. The way to do that will be looking for the best player available.
The only possible exception would be running back. Even if the unfortunate happens and we lose Chester Taylor after this year, I don’t think we would take a running back in the first round unless an incredible, standout running back were available at the back end of the first round. This is because we have AD.
In quarterbacks, the two most important qualities are attitude and confidence. Check out <a href=“http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/6829/podcast-bart-starr-on-favre-rodgers”a recent podcast done by Bart Starr (NFL QB with the highest winning percentage in playoff games in history). He lists those two items, and that’s what I’m basing this on. Of course, you need a QB with a strong arm, good height, good athleticism, and intelligence. Attitude and confidence, however, are key.
It’s hard for us fans to know which players will be great. We can watch college games and see footage on Youtube. What really matters though are the intangibles. We see this in the completely different attitudes of Joe Montana (winner), and, on the other hand Jay Cutler and Ryan Leaf. We fans can’t know what intangibles college players have. For one thing, young men at that age are still growing up and making early choices in their lives.
Take Tim Tebow. Maybe he would be a good draft pick. On the other hand, maybe his throwing mechanics cannot be improved, he won’t be able to handle a pro-style offense, and he is more interested in becoming a preacher than a championship football player. Being a preacher, or maybe politician, would be a great career path where he could do a lot of good. Tim Tebow doesn’t have to play football, but he does happen to be great at it. He is one of the great college football players of this generation. From what we fans know, he is a winner, and a superb leader. We won’t know what the scouts can find out, though, and that is whether this very high character guy would actually want to play pro football and spend close to 100% of his time on it, when he could be doing something else with more of a direct impact on the world.
Scott Studwell and Brad Childress will probably want to draft a quarterback at some point in 2010. They’re going to have to figure out who they would want and talk to that person and get a sense for his attitude and confidence. I don’t think it is absolutely mandatory to draft a quarterback in round #1 however. Even if the Vikings don’t find a good QB in round 1 or 2, Jackson and Rosenfels could be options, and there is free agency.
Later rounds can be good for quarterbacks. Tom Brady was drafted in round 5. There are some unheralded quarterbacks who will go undrafted, or be drafted late, who might be good. Based on watching him play a little, Tyler Sheehan of Bowling Green State might be a very good pro quarterback one day. He would probably be available in round 5.
Another possibility would be Jimmy Clausen. To me, as a fan, he seems to have great intangibles. Of course, I don’t know that for sure. It’s just that he seems to play every game like someone’s life is at stake. He is going for the win no matter the situation. That said, maybe his throwing mechanics are poor and unfixable. I don’t know.
In terms of pure need, the most immediate needs are QB, S, G, and DT. I don’t think CB is on that list unless there would be a very talented player like an Antonio Cromartie available who could play nickel. Even then, we are pretty set at CB with Benny Sapp and Asher Allen on the depth chart behind Winfield and Griff. Paymah is a good special teamer. The guy on our practice squad has hung on for several weeks, so maybe he has potential.
I agree
We pick the best player left in the draft. Don’t worry about need on the first round pick the best guy you can and work him into the system. That’s the beauty of having a team that really has no serous holes and more importantly has decent back up at all the positions. As Medicineball stated I would also get anyone at all except maybe a running back. I don’t think we want to be a team that runs by comittee and I’m certain the AP would not want it.
Here’s to getting what we need and want :D
As long as the BPA is highly rated for your system
You are correct but so many people confuse BPA with BPA that works for your team. I am excited about the possibility of what we might get with a late round pick. What do you think of trading down and getting a couple extra picks in the second or third round?
if your team is stacked
there just aren’t the roster space for extra picks. You are better off having fewer picks that are higher and better so they can actually contribute.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 4, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
I see
It appears that everyone drafted by the Vikes last year made the roster. I assume they were drafted for special team members since they improved so much. But surely 6-7 guys retire or get injured and are replaced each year. If the guys you need are going to be in the 2nd round (like moving down to get Sidney Rice) then it makes sense to me.
everytime
you drop down with another player in mind you are taking a chance that you don’t get the guy you really want. Players all fall into different learning curve categories. For a player that will take a while to develop…like Rice, you can do that, but for a player like Harvin, you just grab them when you can.
Any explosive or instant impact kind of guy will not slide far after the end of the first round. Some GM’s don’t like to gamble with 1st round picks, but will with a 2nd rounder. As long as the vikes get 3-4 potential starters and some depth/special teams guys (about 3) they will have had a really good draft.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 4, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Totally agree
I was thinking that our draft choice might be so late in the first round that a true impact player might not be available so having the extra 3rd or 4th pick might be more valuable. But if the guy you really want is there you have to grab him.
I'm with you Evil Professer.
We don’t need to bring 7 guys to camp. I say trade it all for SUH. If that won’t work target a couple of key players and trade up to get them. We have done a pretty good job of evaluating talent. Get a top tackle to replace Pat and go from there.
best available player
Good to hear your opinion MB. I totally agree with best Player available. With 5 teams needing QB’s I expect them to move up and let some very good players drop below the QB’s. A great linebacker wouldn’t surprise me.
I’m curious why you think we need a safety instead of a corner. How would that help our coverage more than a shutdown corner? Your input is always appreciated.
I think he believes
that our corners are better than our safeties. However, I think Griffin would play a better safety than a corner (that’s his original position) so I would like to see a cover corner on his side and move to safety I think that would help out quite a bit.
I see his point
Yes you stated that in an earlier post and I bought into your theory. With a larger faster corner in there Griffin could tackle his ass off at Safety. I like the idea.
I don't know
But generally speaking, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. We’ll see if it needs fixing as the Vikings play good passing teams like Arizona.
If it ain't broke you still have to improve.
We signed Chester Taylor to a great contract. He did great. But we still improved with the addition of AP. I’m still thinking a defensive back is the area we can most improve in.
would have to say "no way"
Cedric Griffin is a good cornerback. Keeping him would be very smart. You need two CBs, and really should have three good ones. Between ‘Twoine and Griff, we have two. Maybe there’s a third keeper in our depth chart, as well.
we do have a great 3rd corner
does the name ascher allen ring a bell
by mad_wacker39 on Dec 5, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
Yes,
I’m all in on Asher Allen. I think he’s great. He’s a rookie with a long way to go.
One thing I worry about is covering guys like Vernon Davis, Tony Gonzalez, Randy Moss, and Calvin Johnson. They’re tall, physical, and fast. You need a special defender to guard them.
Ideally, we should have a cornerback who is 6’2 to 6’4 tall, with good ball skills, with good jumping ability, who can run a 4.5 40, and possesses good cover skills. Among Vikings DBs, we have nobody like that.
Of course, probably the only DB in the NFL to fit that profile is Nnamdi Asomugha. To be accurate, we would include Charles Woodson who is 6’1.
If we can draft somebody like that, sure, let’s do it. I just don’t think those players come around very often.
It's hard to find DB's like that,
because they’re all playing wide receiver.
"What is best in life?"
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
Hold on. . .
The vikings defense works. . .
it is the Tampa two defense Corner Backs are cover guys but also need to be able to stop the run. I don’t know that many tall cornerbacks that can do that.
Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson are wide receivers that you don’t count on one guy covering.
Vernon Davis and Tony Gonzalez are Tight ends who are never covered by corners anyway.
Were pretty set at CB. ‘toine isn’t goin’ anywhere yet. Cedric is playing really well and Asher Allen is a hard hitting Cornerback like the Tampa two relies on.
by 123farve567-612 on Dec 20, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
Any thoughts on Christian Ponder or LeFevour from C. Michigan?
I personally like both of them. Ponder is a great athlete. Still a little raw but tremendous upside. I know LeFevour doesnt run a pro style offense, but the kid is a winner. I wonder how his skills will translate to the NFL. Any comments?
"We Szekelys have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-Bram Stoker
LeFevour's throwing
Dan LeFevour’s throwing mechanics appear okay, but he throws a lot of ducks. He doesn’t throw with nice, tight spirals like a Troy Aikman. You don’t have to throw as pretty as Aikman or Warren Moon did to be an all-time great, but if you can throw spirals, it helps. I also question LeFevour’s arm strength. I only saw him play in one game, but he didn’t throw the deep ball much or very well. I wonder how much mustard he can put on a ball and still throw with accuracy.
LeFevour does seem to have pretty good intangibles, from the spectator’s perspective that I have. It appears likely to me that he has never taken a direct snap from center in his entire career as QB, from high school to college, however.
The Vikings are going to have a retractable roof stadium, with a lot of windy games in the future. We need a strong-armed quarterback. Not everybody can throw as hard as Brett Favre, but on windy games, it helps to have a quarterback who throws with zip.
agree on LeFevour
He is a big kid but didn’t perform well in the big game against Michigan. No pro style experience. Looks like a worse version of T-Jack to me.
Christian Ponder is unpolished in my book but I hate the Florida State offense. Could be my Bobby Bowden bias.
What about Case Keenum
out of Houston? He seems to be flying under the radar. They are ranked 18th and have a horrible D. The offense carries that team week after week. connects on 70% of his passes. 38 TD to 6 INT. 3 year starter, almost 5,000 yards this year.
Hell, he didn’t even throw a game this year where he didn’t hit on at least 65% of his passes. I can’t say the same about Locker.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 4, 2009 3:34 PM CST reply actions
He's good
He’s in the spread offense in Houston. I watched part of the Conference USA championship game today between his team and the East Carolina Pirates.
Keenum had a 500 yard passing day. He made a lot of big throws. He displayed a big arm and quick decision-making.
On the negative side, he had three interceptions. The last one came with the team down six points, the ball in East Carolina territory, and about a minute to play. Keenum had plenty of time to move the Cougars down the field closer to the end zone. Yet, he threw a high, arcing pass into double coverage. It was picked in the end zone after richoteting around. Obviously, he wishes he had that one back. He appears to have made a bad decision in a clutch situation. On the other hand, if the coach called the play and told him to do that, it’s on the coach.
I like Keenum’s competitiveness. The things that worry me are the “spread quarterback” situation and whether he is clutch. Two big question marks there.
by medicineball on Dec 5, 2009 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
Case Keenum
Hi Professor.,
Case isn’t flying under the radar he is already plotted on the graph (using the radar example) as a system quarterback. Each year Houston has a quarterback that works out of the spread and hits great numbers. None have ever been great pros that I know of. However he will get a shot as a late round pick or undrafted free agent i assume.
I agree that spread QBs scare the (*&^ out of me
but if you look at his passing versus running stats for his 3 years he has drastically reduced the number of times that he runs and his passing attempts skyrocketed. He just seems like the type of guy you could pick up later that really has a chance to develop. If he is a spread QB, he is a decent athlete and by running and being tacked so much without missing games tells me that he is pretty tough and not injury prone. Even as a first year starter he threw 14 TDs and had 10 picks. The next year after he doubled his throws he only had 11 picks with 44 TDs.
I just haven’t been able to watch him enough to see how he reads Defenses or if he even can. The vikes can pick up a really good QB if the rest of the NFL is going to pigeonhole him for being a system guy. I would love to pick him up in the 3rd or fourth round. Or later if we can.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 4, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
System QBs
Isn’t it shocking how bad college system QBs can look in the pros? I mean, we can rattle off a long list of guys who were so bad they didn’t even get a chance to make a team. Graham Harrell rings a bell. Didn’t that guy like break every single college passing record? He went undrafted, got one single tryout from the Browns, and couldn’t even make the preseason cuts. The best (statistical) college QB in recent memory couldn’t even make the Browns.
I personally don’t quite understand this phenomenon but it is pretty clear that most NFL teams do. Except for the Redskins. Cause they spent like a 4th rounder on Colt Brennan.
later in the draft
He will get a real close look but his chances of being drafted higher than the 6th round are small because None of the spread offense guys seem to work out. They just haven’t learned how to read a defense under center. 3 step drops, 5 step drops, 7 step drops all have a learning curve. The good news is that almost 50% of all NFL snaps are shotgun formations. Unfortunately that is not what the Vikings do. I expect our scouting division to have looked at every available quarterback. Whoever they pick I’m trusting them. Heck, I still believe T-Jack is our franchise of the future. But in case I’m wrong lets pick somebody up for insurance.
I just think that it would be a really good opportunity
to get someone like that to hopefully have one year of study under Favre and then someone else to really learn the position (ala brady) to then step into the starting role knowing what the hell he is doing. I also like Claussen but think the hype machine will get him drafted before we pick.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 4, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
T-Jack will have two years under Farve
I know what your saying but you can’t waste a roster spot. I thought Booty was a good understudy idea but no roster spot. Same with Thigpen. I am 100% with you on Claussen. A perfect fit for the Vikes. I suspect he will go #1 or #2.
You know Cleveland will be looking at him. They have had such good luck with Notre Dame QB’s.
If Suh is available when we draft, I want him.
That kid is a BEAST! Perfect replacement for Phat Pat. If we don’t get a top DT, I’d rather stick with Jimmy Kennedy over a non-elite rookie.
If Suh is not available, I’d go to another position. CB or Safety seem like places with room to improve if an appropriate QB for the position isn’t available.
Going to Tampa
Tampa and Detroit should be the first teams to select that don’t need a QB. O.T. Russell Okung is going to Detroit. Tampa will get SUH. Any other choices on their part will be because of a draft trade or insanity on the part of their GMs.
Because Cody is a 2 down player if he's lucky
He gets tired very easily and has just about no stamina, but thats what you get when your 360 pounds? just guessing…
Yeah, Cody seems too large and possibly too slow for the Vikings’ Tampa-2 variant defense (one of the first things Tomlin did when he came to Minny was to get Pat Williams to lose weight). They like decent size in their DTs—they’re not the Indy Colts or even the Vikings of John Randle/Hank Thomas yore—but you need to be able to shoot up a gap quickly to play DL for the Vikings. Cody’s also probably going to be gone before the Vikings pick, as he probably profiles better as a 3-4 NT, and a bazillion teams need that.
As for QB, I don’t think they’ll take one in round 1 unless one of the better ones falls to the point where the Vikings can move up for him without blowing their draft. They’ll probably need to take one at some point. I’d prefer a senior with a little polish to his game. When Childress drafted TJack, he almost spoke of his rawness as a virtue, even calling him a piece of “clay” he could work with, like he was Michaelangelo. That’s yielded mixed results thus far, 4 years later. I’ve taken a liking to Oregon State’s Sean Canfield. But who knows?
If I had to guess, I’d say the Vikings will maybe trade down this year. The “glamour” positions where they could use some youth/potential (e.g., higher impact positions teams like to address in the first round) are QB and maybe CB/S. But drafting where they will (probably), the premier prospects should be snatched up. Outside of that, they have needs at places like 4-3 NT, OG, maybe 4-3 strongside DE… those are positions you can find value at in later rounds. Otherwise, yeah, BPA ain’t a bad plan, either. And this year you could even include RB (e.g., if CJ Spiller’s on the board, they could maybe go that route as they’’ll need a 2nd running back).
Excellent point
I had not read where Cody showed signs of exahustion but if true I’m sure the scouting department will know.
by lifelongvike on Dec 4, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
he wont be there
Suh is gonna be one of the 1st three players taken in the draft
by mad_wacker39 on Dec 5, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
Will the Browns take Suh?
I want him in the AFC.
by medicineball on Dec 5, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
Vikings Draft Strategy
Let me say first that I believe that Favre will come back (13 mil), TJack will resign for a modest contract (maybe Sage money), and Sage may or may not come back or get cut. So for me that puts QB at the end of the draft and it wil only be a developmental type “Tom Brady” guy. Maybe someone like Pat Devlin or Sealn Canfield.
Second, the mock drafts I am seeing where the Vikings take a OLB or S are not realistic IMO. The Vikings signed Farwell to a new deal, Onatolu from Canada, & drafted Brinkley. Plus two years ago when they got Erin Henderson everyone was saying it was a steal because he was ranked 2nd amongst OLBs that year in many scouting reports. The Vikings play their LBs in more than one spot (EJ, Greenway, & Leber all did) so they could put Brinkley in the middle or at SSLB and shuffle the others around. Plus I feel they want to see what Erin H can do once he is finally healthy. It takes about 2 years to really recover fully from a knee injury. Madieu Williams and Tyrell Johnson have been criticized this year endlessly and probably a lot of it was deserved. But I think most of us fans do not know what we are talking about (me included) and perhaps they are coached to keep everything in front of them? They drafted Sanford last year who made the team so if they do get a safety it will probably be late. Remember Tyrell was the #2 rated safety when the Vikings got him. Again, I do not think the Vikings are ready to cut their losses with him. I do not think they operate like that.
So who should the Vikings draft in round 1. Here are my picks …
1. Allen Bailey DT/DE Miami 6-4 288 This guy is a freak of nature and is already playing end but can play tackle too. The guy I really want is Mike Iupati OG Idaho 6-5 300 Outland Trophy finalist but he wil lbe gone.
2. Danario Alexander WR Missouri 6-5 215 This guy is leading the NCAA in yards and is right up there in catches and TDs.
3. John Jerry OG Mississippi 6-5 350 The Vikings need a young guard to take over for Herrera immediately and be ready to replace Hutchinson in a couple of years.
4. Brian Jackson CB Oklahoma 6-1 205 They need someone to replace Paymah or Sapp and be ready to take over for Winfield. Most likely Paymah.
5. Torrel Troup DT Central Florida -6 325 A big ru nstuffer to tae over for PWill after next year or to back up Kennedy after next year. the Vikings need to resign Kennedy because he is the replacement for PWill. Bailey can replace Jayme Mitchell.
6. Andrew Quarless TE Pen St 6-4 252 This guy is finally getting it together and may not last this long so they may have to take him in the 4th round and use a compensatory pick to get Brian Jackson. yes compensatory pick. The Vikings will have at least one.
7. Eddie Hicks FS Southern Mississippi 6-1 185 All Conference USA second team.
Nice work
I like the thought you put into this. I don’t agree that T-jack will sign for Sage money but who knows. I figure they believe he’s the future or he tries the open market. In any case if the staff finds a guy they like they need to go get him. I don’t care what round it is. Just figure if its not a top 20 QB pick then chances of being successful are way less than 30%. Thats why the top guys are paid so much money. But if we go after a project then I say bring as many to camp as you can.
My other disagreement with your draft is that you have no running back. Must replace Chester this year. Your choices are all well thought out. By the way I thought I read that we get two 5th round compensation picks tthis year.
by lifelongvike on Dec 4, 2009 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks
I thought they may give TJack Sage money because they probably will release Sage and TJack while not a top level QB (yet – I’m hoping he can get something from Favre even if it is via osmosis) he should get some kind of raise if we want to keep him. I think Chilly does want to keep him as they have invested a lot. I like your idea of getting as many in as you can but alas, I do not think that the “guru” feels the same way. We only need one. I know thi smay not be popular but I would be interested in signing Jason Campbell to come in and compete with TJack.
The running back situation is interesting and the reason I did not put anybody in this version of my mock is because I believe that the TOA likes Albert Young and Ian Johnson. I will say though that I believe that the Vikings will get better than 2 fifth round picks because the formula goes by how many players you lost and how much they are getting paid (Birk with the big bucks) and how well they are performing (Sharper is probable pro bowl). The one caveat that I am not sure about is if Favre will be counted against the Vikings. I am hoping for at least a fourth round pick. So with that pick we can get a back like Montario Hardesty from Tennessee. The guy I really want is Demarco Murray if he comes out. My sleeper back is Staffon Johnson from USC.
I watched Campbell on Playbook yesterday.
As pointed out he is terrible. Just can’t release the ball to an open receiver on time. My initial reaction to the tape was that he is so concerned with his technique that he has forgotten about simply playing. My other thought is that this is unfix-able. He has been through the mill of offensive coordinators and coaches. He will be a very high priced backup.
I’m not concerned with our scouts finding the right people. They have been remarkable over the last 3 years. Except that QB spot. I’ve said it before. Mr. Spielman has NEVER EVER drafted a franchise QB for us or Miami in his entire career. If it bothers me just think how it must feel to him. This could turn into an ego thing but I feel they will keep all heads cool and make good choices. Just in case I think we should keep helping them.
Very few franchise quarterbacks
If you listed all the franchise quarterbacks in the Super Bowl era in one column, and listed each draft of each team in the other (Minnesota ’70, Minnesota ’71, Minnesota ’72, etc), the first list would be a lot shorter.
At this point, I guess, my question would be “which quarterback did they pass on in the draft that they shouldn’t have?” When you look at it that way, it isn’t so bad.
Of course, some franchise quarterbacks were never drafted (Warren Moon, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner).
The answer is
Joe Flacco taken with the 17th pick the Vikings traded away. Now to be honest I thought Baltimore was crazy but hey, I’m just a fan.
My issue is that Spielman tried time and again to replace Marino in Miami and never came close. He then comes to the Vikes and picks T-Jack and Booty. What is it about him that can’t quite properly evaluate a QB. Now again, T-Jack has a winning record and was a long term project. He could be the franchise for the next 7 years. Only the coaches know. we seem to be very good at picking up free agent QBs so mabey they will keep on that path. I’m really hoping that T-Jack has improved enough in the coaches view to be a starter. Its hard to find a QB with his size, arm strength, and speed.
Traded away 17th pick
We cannot mention the 17th pick that was traded without mentioning who we got in return IMO?
Jared Allen has been pretty good for the Vikings.
I also do not think that Spielman had the final say on TJack and I do recall reading that TJack was Childress’s call all the way.
QB is not a worry unless Favre retires. I believe that Favre may play past even next year. Why not? Warren Moon did. Favre just likes to play so why not let him? Anyway, next year is the year to trade away picks to get a franchise guy like Mallett who will probably stay.
I like your other idea of just getting a few guys in to compete.
School of Rejects
Why not dump Sage, keep T-Jack, bring on both Campbell and JaMarcus Russel, and let all three compete to see who’s less aweful. Heck, might as well throw in Lienhart into the mix as well.
“Bringing as many picks to camp as we can” is probably a strategy unfitting to the Vikings current situation. As stated by a previous poster earlier, the Vikings roster is loaded with talent and depth. It would be hard for even a handful of rookies to make the squad let alone more than like 6-7. I say the Vikings use this rare (and temporary) roster strength to trade up should they see a player they like higher in round 1 or 2. Heck, I’d even trade up before the draft just to gain more options.
OG
The Vikings need a young guard to take over for Herrera immediately and be ready to replace Hutchinson in a couple of years.
I see no pressing need to replace Herrera. He might not be spectacular, but OGs aren’t really supposed to be. I see nothing glaringly wrong with his game. But replacing Hutchinson long term is a concern that should at least warrant some consideration.
Best rated OG in draft might be available in the last pick of 1st round
Mike Iupati from Idaho. Rated about the best player in the draft.
by lifelongvike on Dec 6, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Tim Tebow...............
Project for two years under Bevell. Favre will play through the 2011 season.
If the Jags don't take him???
Tebow is the wildcard. If the Jags don’t take him who will? Would we? His throwing motion is awful. He doesn’t read defenses well. He has always operated out of the shotgun. But he is one of the best football players I have ever seen. I want him as my tight end or fullback I think.
by lifelongvike on Dec 4, 2009 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
Tebow will be a QB
All this talk from fans and media and even some scouts that Tebow would be anything else but a QB is ridiculous. He is plain and simple a football player! He is a leader and a winner and not a china doll like Bradford. He is very accurate. I do not know about his “throwing motion” nor do I give a damn as long as the pass gets where it needs to go! There will be many teams that will regret passing on Tebow as a QB. Bet on dat! If he is there at 32 when we pick then it is a no brainer. Who should we take over him to groom to replace Favre? Pike, Snead, LeFevour? No thanks. I’ll risk pick #32 on Tebow.
Championship Weekend
I watched some games today on championship weekend. Here are some thoughts on players.
Tony Pike — I wasn’t sold on him. I posted that here at DN. Then I watched much of the Cincinnati-Pitt game. Now I am almost sold on Pike. The deal is almost closed. He played great helping his team come back to win from 14 points down. He is a great competitor. He remains calm under intense pressure. He is a very accurate passer. The only questions I have for him would be: arm strength, physical build, conversion to pro-style offense, and confidence. Does he have enough confidence? He ought to. He is a great quarterback. If he answers those questions, then he passes my test.
Mardy Gilyard — Cincinnati wide receiver is very fast and a playmaker. They say he’ll go in round 1 or 2, though.
Van Eskridge — East Carolina DB has made game-clinching interceptions in two consecutive Conference USA championship games. He is clutch.
Eric Hagg — Nebraska DB is a playmaker, but was called for two bad PI calls in the Big 12 championship game. He didn’t turn his back to the ball on either one. As a junior, I bet he returns for his senior year. Maybe we’ll draft him in 2011.
Colt McCoy — He just helps his team win games. All the time. Can he convert to a pro-style offense? I don’t know. If he can, he’ll be great. Against Nebraska, he had three interceptions. Only one was a bad throw. Another was tipped high in the air and picked by Eric Hagg. The last was taken away from a receiver by a defender.
Tim Tebow — He’s too emotional to be an effective quarterback in the NFL for an extended period. A quarterback needs to be a calm guy like a Brady or a Montana or Warren Moon. Sure, a good leader can get excited to rouse the troops to battle when that’s called for. Most of the time, however, especially in pressure situations, calmness is called for from the a team leader. Tebow has it turned up to 11 all the time. Eventually, it just doesn’t help the team. Additionally, his sidearm throwing motion is bad and probably unfixable.
Greg McElroy — Terrific quarterback who has never lost a game he started. Ever. He runs a pro-style offense on many plays for Alabama. We need to get him if he’s in the draft. He’s a junior. Great throwing mechanics, great intangibles. Great everything. He is a winner.
Mark Ingram — Very good running back who will be drafted by another team and do well for them.
One more possible draft need
I hope he keeps playing, and he’s still playing at the same high level, but Kleinsasser might be nearing retirement. We’ve got Garrett Mills, but maybe we should think about drafting a tight end.
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