Quarterbacks, Centers, and Tackles... Oh, My!
In the upcoming 2009 Draft, the Vikings could go any number of different ways. Josh Freeman; the Jackson-esque quarterback from Kansas State? Alex Mack; the stud center from California? Eben Britton; the huge offensive tackle from Arizona?
I would be satisfied with many of the numerous options the Vikings have, but unless your name is Bill Belichick, it's pretty darn hard to cheat on draft day. More than likely, the Vikings will only announce one first round draft pick.
This has been endlessly debated among fans of the Purple, but who should that be?
Quarterback?
Peyton Manning. Tom Brady. Tarvaris Jackson? The name doesn't exactly inspire confidence in fans, nor does it instill fear in opponents. When the going gets tough, Jackson is probably to blame.
Rare is the person (outside of Childress) who thinks that Tarvaris will be an elite quarterback. Jackson has plenty of tools... but... he just isn't that good. Minnesota is the home of the best running back in the game, but one of the worst quarterbacks.
As VikesSince85 pointed out in this FanPost, a team has a better chance of contending for a Super Bowl if they have an elite quarterback but lack an elite running back. The Vikings have the inverse of this recipe, and it showed against the Eagles.
A quarterback is essential. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. But should the Vikings spend their first round pick on an unproven guy like Josh Freeman in the hopes that he becomes the next Big Ben?
Center?
As Gonzo mentioned in his Pre-Combine Mock, a new quarterback is worthless without an offensive line. There is an order to how things should be fixed, and the Lions are in about the same position. They could do what everybody says and draft Stafford... but their offensive line is a joke. The smart thing for them to do would be to help anchor that line and look for a quarterback in other places. It's not the most glamorous thing to do, but it's the smartest.
Should the Vikings operate under the assumption that Matt Birk won't be back? A guy like Alex Mack not only has an easy name to remember (and type), but is a super athlete. Gonzo summed it up best:
"Yeah, [Alex Mack is] not the most glamorous pick the Beloved Purple could make, but it's one that I think we'll be reaping the benefits of for a long time."
Offensive/Defensive Tackle?
Let's face it, Vikings fans have taken for granted having the best run-stopping duo in the game in the Williames. Both are getting up there in years, and might not be around long enough to see a new stadium. Should the Vikings build for the future and solidify that position with a guy like BJ Raji, or Peria Jerry?
Or how about the offensive tackle position? There is really only one hole on that line, and his name is Ryan Cook. Should the Vikings draft any of the plethora of offensive tackles available in this draft to make life easier for whoever is taking snaps from whoever the center is?
Clearly, a lot of options. Should we be satisfied with any of these options, or is there one that deserves to be prioritized higher than the others?
Please discuss and let us know what the most crucial need of the Vikings is, and how these needs should be prioritized.
Andersklasen is the alias of Andrew Kneeland. He blogs at VikingVigil.com, and can be reached by email at akneeland@bleacherreport.com.
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Comments
Not mentioning Jackson (and 29 other quarterbacks) with Brady and Manning is like...
Pot shots at Tavaris Jackson are stale at this point in the conversation (he is a Viking). Vikings quarterback play has been exhaustively discussed and it is widely agreed upon that improvement at the position should be a priority. However, citing Brady and Manning as the standard for quarterback play is totally ineffective. Speculating whether a college quarterback is the next great is as equally a futile effort. Brady and Manning were diamonds in the ruff and if that is what is expected, they’ll have to trade for one or the other.
What sense is there in blasting a player, who essentially, was a back up all season?
by LoveHate on Feb 15, 2009 1:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the feedback...
But I wasn’t trying to blast Jackson, or say that Manning or Brady are the standard for quarterback play. I was just comparing Jackson to those two – and you notice how huge the difference in talent/ability is.
I wasn’t trying to blast Jackson, just trying to say that we need an upgrade at that position. I’m sorry if it sounded any different.
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by Andersklasen on Feb 15, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrew
You sounded fine. I clearly understood that your point was that they are not that close in ability. It’s a contrast, nothing more.
It’s very rare that a team goes deep into the playoffs without an established quarterback, so I don’t see the problem is saying he doesn’t have that great ability. I certainly didn’t see it as “blasting” Tarvaris.
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by Manimal on Feb 17, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
O-line
Without knowing anything about the potental Viking draft picks listed, I would go with the offensive tackle first, and the center second. I am a firm believer in building a team from the offensive line up, as a great o-line can make sub-par QBs look average, middling receivers look good, and great RBs even better. Control the offensive line, you control the tempo of the game.
In addition, this Vikings squad will be best served by bringing in a veteran QB (Jeff Garcia, for instance) who is ready to start and run an offense now. With many of the Viking starters getting up there in football years, or nearing the end of their contracts, the Vikings are best off with a veteran who will hopefully not screw up too much. A defense and run-oriented veteran team who needs to make a run now is not well-served with a rookie QB learning on the job.
For every Marino, Big Ben, and Matt Ryan who does well their rookie year at QB, there are a lot of Peyton Mannings and Troy Aikmans (both were awful their rookie seasons as starters) who bloom later, or Tim Couches and Cade McNowns, i.e. widely touted rookie QBs who flame out and bust in spectacular fashion. The odds do not favor a rookie QB making a significant positive impact on the Vikings next year. Nor, with the Vikings’ strong defense and running game, do they especially need a rookie QB who will come in and make a huge difference.
by Midnight Rambler on Feb 15, 2009 2:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
For me, it's not Jackson, it's the situation
and how the Vikings got to this point. And comparing TJ to Brady and Manning isn’t fair. But I can’t think of four teams that want Jackson over their guy as a starter.
Childress took a HUGE risk by trading two third round picks to get back into the second round to get Jackson. Many draft wonks felt it was a trade that didn’t need to be made, because the consensus was he was a late round guy to begin with. Not having a good back up plan in case TJ didn’t develop quickly or didn’t develop at all has been maddening. Childress thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room when it comes to QB’s, and will stay with Jackson to prove that his risky pick was a genius move. It’s quickly becoming an Emperor has no clothes situation.
QB became an immediate need when Culpepper went nuts with his contract demands after his knee injury, and although the Vikes drafted a guy they thought would be a long term answer, they also needed a good backup. In 2006, Brad Johnson made sense. He did well in relief of Culpepper in 2005, knew the WCO, and seemed to be a great short term answer. When it became apparent a change was needed, I agreed with giving TJ an opportunity in 2007, but Kelly Holcomb and Brooks Bollinger was not a solid backup plan, and everyone not named Brad Childress knew it.
So the team is at a crossroads. If they go to TJ in ‘09 and it blows up, Childress will be fired. If they make a move for, say, Cassel, Childress has to admit fault for drafting Jackson…and oh by the way TJ still has a couple of years left on his rookie contract. And they’ll have to give up a first round draft pick, minimum, to get Cassel.
If they do a Gus redux in 2009, or get someone comparable to Gus, they’ll be good enough to get to the playoffs, but probably not good enough to make it all the way.
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by MilCardFan on Feb 15, 2009 2:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Oakland, San Francisco, Detroit and Chicago. That was easy.
Anyways, you have to give Jackson credit for what he did last season. The first two games certainly shouldn’t be blamed entirely on him. I mean, he wasn’t even really the root of the issues in the first two losses. Terrible special teams and two big plays against the defense cost us those victories.
From when he filled in for Gus and up to the playoffs, he really wasn’t bad at all. He looked pretty damn good in fact. But if the Vikes sign a veteran QB ( Garcia is going to be available most likely ) I’d be okay with letting them duke it out. Some time of the bench didn’t hurt Jackson any, and he played arguably his best ball coming off the pine. So if he loses, he spends another season in the passenger side, but it may end up helping him in the long run. He can do worse than learning a bit more about the position behind Garcia.
by Frost on Feb 15, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Childress isn’t a personnel man. He may have input in roster decisions, but others hold the title(s) and would arguably be held responsible for decisions. I hope Childress, and anyone else for that matter, don’t let their ego get in the way of success. That would shameful.
But you have hit the nail on the head noting the quality of the quarterback position employed in the Childress era. No one would seriously argue the Vikings have entered any of the past three seasons with a quarterback that gave them a shot at competing for a championship, but that can’t be held against the players.
by LoveHate on Feb 15, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with a lot of what you're saying
but the one place I differ is in having a good backup for Jackson. I think the main problem with the situation is that Jackson should have started out as the backup QB, and I mean beyond his rookie season. He played lower level competition in college and was nowhere near ready. He may still not be ready for NFL competition.
But the problem now is that once again, at the end of a regular season, he showed those proverbial “flashes” that make some fans (but more importantly Childress) think that he can be the starter. It’s a vicious cycle that I wonder will ever end.
by Bodysuit Man on Feb 16, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
T-Jack was put in an untenable position from the beginning, with huge expectations on his performance. Had he previously demonstrated NFL starter-like ability, he’d’ve gone in the 1st round to someone else. Childress may very well have ruined a QB that could have been an excellent NFL journeyman QB like Ferrotte.
by DCPurple on Feb 17, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The best player available
The vikings forte(not matt) in the draft since the childress era began has been to take the best player available. If that means a guy like B.J. Raji or Peria Jerry is available then take them. Or one of the elite offensive tackles like Oher or Smith, then I think thats a no brainer. But if both the hogmalls and the giants at tackle are gone then we take the next best thing. Wether that be a guy like D.J. Moore, Hakeem Nicks or even Alex Mack the best player on the Vikings board will come off.
We didn’t need a running back in 2007, but we took the best player available. And now we have the best runner in the game. Thats the way the draft goes. The best player available. Don’t stretch to fill a team need, take a guy that has potential and skill.
by mattscards77 on Feb 15, 2009 3:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This. We’ve got few needs. We are in a good position in a deep draft.
by mjschaefer on Feb 15, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Trying to draft for a perceived need in the first round often leads to disastrous choices like Demetrious Underwood. As you point out, AD was drafted one year after the Vikes signed Chester Taylor to be their featured running back. Don’t think anyone would want to have a do-over on that one.
For lack of a better choice at this point in time, I’d go with Alphonso Smith at cb in the first round especially in the scheme the Vikes are running with Frazier. BTW, can anyone substantiate this report that Madieu Williams’s neck injury nearly resulted in paralysis. I find that difficult to believe.
by VikingBillArlingtonVA on Feb 16, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
I agree that all the talk about Jackson should stop. It’s very repetitive, and it’s clear that no one is satisfied with his play.
by mattscards77 on Feb 15, 2009 3:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good luck with that...
The Vikings’ QB situation will not go away until we sign somebody, the season starts, somebody steps in to the starting role, and someone emerges as a great QB. Whether it’s Jackson or someone else, it doesn’t matter, and the QB talk won’t stop until probably week four or five of the regular season next year. And that’s in a best case scenario – one that an actual starter emerges and claims the position and leaves no doubt in anyone’s mind.
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by Manimal on Feb 17, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Best player available
We can still fill a need by doing so in the 1st rd. This draft is pretty deep and what we don’t get here we can get later. We could even trade down in the 1st and pick up an extra pick or two and still fill our needs early. What we do in FA is going to dictate our direction in the draft and even then I still see us going with the best player available and filling needs.
by nmvikesfan on Feb 15, 2009 4:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I really think the QB situation will be decided in FA before the draft, whatever that decision may be. I see no reason to draft Josh Freeman or Nate Davis when we have Tarvaris and JDB already on the roster. Hopefully we get the best player available, and my personal wish is O-Line to replace Ryan Cook. But it’s certainly possible our first round pick will be gone via trade.
by cutlassbob on Feb 15, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how about a new offensive coordinator
Well i think if we cannot find a good QB…how about we try Mike Martz…
by superlucky on Feb 15, 2009 6:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Martz
Martz keeps losing his job everywhere he goes. I am not a fan of him at all. Spartan99 had it pretty much right on, T-Jack’s head would explode under Martz’s system. Martz has his QBs do a 5-7 step drop and find a open WR….needless to say that is not Jackson’s strength. Martz’s qbs also take savage beatings every game…
I would like us to find a proven QB….as in find a FA or make a trade. I know there are a few good prospects in the draft but unless we get one of the top two qbs…then I would like us to make a move before the draft. Not like we are a real old team…but these guys want to win now…and we everything in place…except the QB.
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by Dustin B on Feb 16, 2009 11:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hell, if Childress ran the offense he says he runs
Jackson would probably be fine. But the WCO is not so similar to the kick ass offense is it? I still think Childress is one of the worst coaches in the league when it comes to utilizing your talent. He obviously thinks he knows what he’s doing but it’s equally as obvious that he really doesn’t. He has a defense that allows few enough points that a QB doesn’t have to win many games, and he has the best running game in the NFL, yet he barely misses or barely makes the playoffs each season. Where’s the offensive mind that we thought we were getting when we signed Childress to keep him from going to Green Bay?
by Bodysuit Man on Feb 16, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, considering that more than half the league doesn’t make the playoffs, I think its safe to assume that he must be doing something right. Yeah, he can be frustrating at times, but the guy took us to a 10-6 record last season. He can be dumb at times, but I think his plan is starting to slowly come to fruition. I mean, he’s improved every season he’s been here. And the schedule last season was more difficult than the previous one.
by Frost on Feb 17, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Garcia Officially Available
Jeff Garcia announced today that the Bucs are not interested in bringing him back next year. So, he is now available.
by Midnight Rambler on Feb 16, 2009 3:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Pettigrew
This gigantic TE would be a boon to the Vikes’ offense. He’s a mean-spirited blocker, but can stretch the seam, where he doesn’t get taken down easily. Jackson really blossomed toward the end of the season—when Shaincoe did. I dunno if that turnaround resulted from more exposure, but whatever the reason, Shaincoe demonstrated what a valuable asset a pass-catching tight-end can be to a young quarterback. Shaincoe’s not the best blocker, though, and all too often needed a breather on running downs (most downs, for Brad Childress). Pettigrew’s could make an immediate impact. If he’s still around, I would be very angry if the Purple passed on this guy.
by virginia viking on Feb 16, 2009 5:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Vikings run an awful lot of Two Tight as it is. A Shainco – Pettigrew personnel package would allow the Vikings to disguise intent on any down. This move only makes sense if Klinesasser leaves town.
by LoveHate on Feb 16, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kleinsasser
This guy has been essentially our third tackle for some time now. Now, I loves me some Jim Kleinsasser, but what speed he had 10 years ago has largely eroded. Remember when he used to play fullback for Mike Tice? He’s the last thing most front-seven (or secondary!) defenders want to see coming—on running plays, at least. They salivate when they see him run a pass route. Jeff Dugan is adequate as a fill-in at TE/FB/HB, but his upside is limited when compared to the other players who fill these positions for the Vikes, like Garrett Mills, or even Nafui Tahi.
Pettigrew gives the Vikings bookend three-down tight-ends, and might allow for <gasp!> creativity to flow from the Childress offense.
by virginia viking on Feb 16, 2009 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Eagles need a TE too, and they have a selection ahead of us. They’re projected to take Pettigrew, but I wouldn’t complain if they passed and we took ahold of him. As long as Shiancoe keeps putting that stick-em on his gloves, it should be pretty exciting to watch. Although Kleinsausage had his share of big plays last season.
by Frost on Feb 17, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CB, OL or WR
Re: QB: I think they should bring in another veteran QB, but someone better than the Frerotte/Holcomb/Bollinger tier. I like Byron Leftwich, and I think most would agree that he’s a great answer, no matter what side one is on in the TJ debate. For those who are tired of TJ and have already given up on him, Leftwich’s career numbers are already better than TJ’s, and Leftwich put up most of those stats while TJ’s former nemesis, Matt Jones, was all coked up pretending to be an NFL wide receiver. For those who think that TJ will perform in 2009 and beyond as he did in his last 3 games of the regular season (against some of the worst defenses—and teams, ever, with regard to the Lions), they can see a similarly crunchy nugget of small sample size goodness in Leftwich’s 2008 numbers also. At 29 years of age, Leftwich is almost 10 years younger than Jeff Garcia, the other new favorite lately, so ether way, we could all stop complaining about our favorite team’s QB situation if only the front office would make such a move.
According to nflscout.com, John David Booty compares to Patrick Ramsey, and he’s out there, too. That makes me worry a bit that the Viking brass might think it wise for the real Patrick Ramsey to tutor Booty to be reign over the Vikingdom of Ramsey II, but we should all hope not.
I hope the Vikings select the best available player in the draft at each pick, and that they find many versatile talents that way. If their first pick is a center, then I hope that he can also play tackle or guard without pulling a Ryan Cook by amassing a ton of stupid penalties. If they select a CB, then I hope that he will be able to contribute as a returner or safety or otherwise on special teams or play well enough to force Cedric Griffin into a competition for nickelback/safety duty (where he really belongs, in my humble opinion). If they select a WR, then I hope he would have some value as a returner, but honestly that is the one position where I simply hope that the rookie is a worthy starter. A CB/RET like the one from Wake Forest or either Harvin or Maclin at WR, a versatile OL, a versatile run-stopping DE/DT type, or a versatile LB would be my preferences, in that order.
by KC Viking on Feb 16, 2009 9:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
sorry KC
There is no way Leftwich will get hired by the Vikings. He is way too immobile and doesn’t have a quick release. 2 things our starter really needs. He would not be an upgrade over TJ or Gus Frerotte.
Plus, I hate to break anyone’s bubble about JDB, but he is gonna sit at third string for another year or two before he will ever sniff the field. I really hope he turns out to be a player but the word on the street is he’s light years away from being a starter.
I like the idea of Harvin in our offense, and I LOVE the idea of Maclin in it. Safe pick though is still CB. There should be 3 that would be good at pick 22, and I highly doubt all 3 will be gone.
by NYCVike on Feb 16, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the Giants’ and Falcons’ defenses weren’t exactly considered terrible last season. . . and, come to think of it, neither were the Packer’s, pre-injuries, and Colt’s. Arizona was known to have a bad defense, so I’ll give you that one, but Jackson did take advantage of it. So there’s no reason to think maybe he won’t play as well as he did in the last three games.
And I doubt Leftwich will be coming to Minnesota. First off, he’s already said he’d like to play for the Bears. Second, he’s a good backup for Pittsburgh, and he just won a ring. They might decide to hold onto him.
by Frost on Feb 17, 2009 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Backups
It’s a pretty sad day when people get excited about picking up another team’s 3rd string QB to be the Viking’s 1st stringer. That leaves T-Jack at what… 4th? And JDB as an equivilant 5th stringer?
Or the interest in picking up another graybeard, hoping there’s enough juice left in Old Man Garcia to squeeze out another year of play behind the porous Viking O-Line. They say that those who fail to learn from their history are doomed to repeat it.
Jackson is a better bet than any of those choices, and I have very little confidence in T-Jack at this point; he has a LOT to prove. Maybe 2009 will be the year he proves it. Maybe not. But if the Vikes don’t have a premium QB and the WR talent to take advantage of it, they aren’t going all the way anyway; might as well give T-Jack his final run and cross fingers.
by DCPurple on Feb 17, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Defenses
Review last year’s defensive stats at pro-football-reference sometime. In the meantime, here are some specifics:
- TJ played his last 5 games (which represented 60% of his passing attempts and stats for the year) against the Lions (worst D in the NFL by far), Cardinals (3rd worst pass defense in the league by rating allowed, very worst by TD% allowed), the Falcons (below average passer rating allowed and one of the lowest INT rates of any pass defense in the NFL last year).
- Of those, only the Giants had a negative DVOA and were above average or top 10 by most other pass defense measures, and they rested their starters against TJ. I’ll bet he looks great against the practice squad, too.
- The Colts allowed the highest completion % in the NFL in 2008: 68.4%! Imagine how high that stat would have been had TJ not been 10 percentage points below average. Indy’s pass defense also had a positive DVOA. That leaves 2 games against quality defenses (GB opener and PHI playoff loss) which do not show a trend of improvement.
Leftwich has already stated publicly that he’d like to have a chance to start again somewhere, and he knows it isn’t happening in Pittsburgh. I’m not holding my breath because Leftwich has actually performed—(gasp)—ABOVE AVERAGE…more than once! Of course Chilly wouldn’t allow such a thing. For now I’d rather be optimistic, but you’re probably right about the deserved cynicism toward making a good move at QB with Brad Childress in charge.
by KC Viking on Feb 19, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing wrong with taking shots at jackson or anyone its football. Jackson had some OK games last year and was better then ferotte but what the hell is that saying? Both of them stunk and still do. Jackson in the playoff game had like 35 pass attempts and 160 yards? TERRIBLE. We need a new QB either way Jackson has had long enough to play consistent and “manage” the game he hasn’t time to move on before players get to old.
by Zoxide on Feb 17, 2009 5:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
IF....
Brady or Manning had the playcalling of the Vikings, they would be TJax.
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by the Dragon on Feb 17, 2009 10:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Anyone remember this?
A Nickelodeon classic, Alex Mack. I want to draft him if only for the fact that I’d giggle about our new center having the same name as a fictional, supernatural Nickelodeon character.
by ericj69 on Feb 17, 2009 11:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Definitely...
Yeah, that was definitely my first thought. One of those shows I watched growing up. I’ve actually found myself on the Alex Mack wikipedia while at work before, when I got on what I call a “wiki tangent.” You start one place and end up in a completely different area. Talk about working hard.
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by Manimal on Feb 17, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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