Vikings and Texans in Trade Talks. . .Is It Thyme for Sage?
by Gonzo on Feb 23, 2009 4:55 PM CST
in Vikings
85 comments
Yeah, I know I've used that joke before. I also don't care.
Access Vikings is reporting that the Vikings and Texans are close to a deal that would see the Vikings sending their fourth-round selection (#118 overall) in this year's draft to the Houston Texans in exchange for quarterback Sage Rosenfels.
You'll recall that the Vikings attempted to acquire Rosenfels from the Texans prior to training camp this year as well. The Vikings were offering a third-rounder, while the Texans wanted a second. Hence, no deal got done.
I've been on the road all day, so this is the first I'm seeing about this. It sounds semi-reasonable from my perspective, but I'm going to have to take a little time to digest this. Hopefully I'll be back with more later on tonight, and if I'm not, I'll be back tomorrow with a take on how this affects the Beloved Purple.
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Well,
I for one am hoping this deal gets done.
Things will get better as they improve...
by Dane Noble on Feb 23, 2009 5:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
THE ROSENCOPTER!!
OH NO! Haha..c’mon…someone post it.
by Jepp The Viking on Feb 23, 2009 5:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It's still a good joke...
But yeah, this kind of caught me by surprise. I’ve been leaning towards Garcia, but Sage is 8 years younger…
He also took a lot of heat for the “helicopter” game. But I think that shows his willingness to put it all on the line to win. Even if he lost it…
by PurplePeopleEaters on Feb 23, 2009 5:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The only thing this is good for is
keeping Gus out of Minnesota.
Gonzo2
by Gonzo2 on Feb 23, 2009 5:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
WTF are we suppose to make a run at the SUPERBOWL! YES THE SUPERBOWL! With Sage Rosenfels are our guy? Who the f is Sage Rosenfels? A perennial backup? Come on we’re trying to upgrade. If they seriously think Rosenfels is the guy it will be a long and depressing offseason. Say it aint so.
by Zoxide on Feb 23, 2009 5:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Settle down. He will be getting backup QB money. Door still open for a 1st string QB. Sage would then provide solid depth.
by Stubby83 on Feb 23, 2009 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Worth it
Now, I wouldn’t mind seeing a fair competition between Sage and TJack. That should be pretty good, and may the best man win. It will also give us a better #2 in my opinion than relying on old Gus. Plus only giving up a 4th round choice seems reasonable.
It may take a village to raise a child, but it takes a Viking to raze a village.
by Luft Krigare on Feb 23, 2009 5:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
=D
Yeah the 4th round pick isn’t bad to give up but hes still not a number one guy at least not on a contending team even if he is a slight upgrade. But he is definitely better then Gus and now we can lose Gus
by Zoxide on Feb 23, 2009 7:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yuck
6TD vs 10 INT. The Vikes should be going after Garcia if they want to win a super bowl. T-Jack will beat out Sage and be the starter next season if it comes to that.
by Spartan99 on Feb 23, 2009 7:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That might be Childress and Co. plan!
I just hope they don’t really give the guy $9 mil/3 yrs for it.
by LoveHate on Feb 23, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I agree it CANNOT be T-Jack, Rosenfels and Booty as our QB’s.. Fans won’t like it and its not going to win a superbowl
by Zoxide on Feb 23, 2009 7:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
When
did winning the Super Bowl become the only criteria for a successful season? On top of that, who fucking knows who will win the Super Bowl with what they have? Anyone think the Vikings were going to win the division with Jackson and Gus as the QBs? Everyone should temper their anger/vitriol til after the draft when the OTAs start. Then you will have a better understanding of who and what are on the team.
by vikingfuture8816 on Feb 23, 2009 7:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Spoken by a fan of a team who has never won a SB
and who hasn’t been to one in his lifetime I would bet.
If you’re not doing everything you can to win the SB, you’re just helping another team win it.
by Bodysuit Man on Feb 23, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
How do you know they aren’t doing everything they think they can to get there? 4 games into last year, everyone thought the Vikings were done, and they won the division. Before you think it isn’t going anywhere, you should see what you got.
The Vikings just got done with a year in which they had a winning record, won the division, and had what, 6 Pro Bowlers yet any news that comes out its “Oh no its all over, who would ever want to go see this team, why can’t we instantly have an offense that gains 800 yards of offense a game like I do in Madden, if only they had taken my advice a traded for all my favorite players, blah blah” We should be proud of what our team accomplished. There are areas for improvement and there always will be, but there is a lot to look forward too and to be proud of. The Vikings might just pick up a QB who may not be spectacular, but plays with enough consistency that they know what they can get out of him and he is young enough that they might be able to rely on it for a while. Was there really anything better out there and for the price they would allegedly pay (4th round pick, 3 mil a year)?
by vikingfuture8816 on Feb 24, 2009 1:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
800 yards?
I think you need to play on all madden, or the “my skill” level!
And I agree with you. No team is perfect, especially with the salary cap and free agency. Makes me think about the Yankees. They have by far the largest payroll of any professional sports team, yet what have they accomplished recently? I think the Vikings are one of the best teams in the league. I’m excited about what they can achieve. I don’t like Childress, but I do respect him for what he has done with the team. There are plenty of young pieces on this team to do some damage for years to come.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Feb 24, 2009 2:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Vikings could have done more and won more with the roster they have. They lost only one game by more than a touchdown (reg. season). We should only expect better for next season. Superbowl better? When can you really expect to win the SB? You shouldn’t.
I’m with future. Too many comments on here suggest the Vikings can trade for and sign all of the top notch players, regardless of their availability. Doing nothing to improve and standing pat would be a bad thing, but as fans we really shouldn’t be doubting Thomas’ on all of the things they do in an effort to improve the roster.
by LoveHate on Feb 24, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Success
Winning the Super Bowl became the primary criteria for a successful season on about the day that Super Bowls began. Sure, there’s other criteria that makes better, like going the entire season without losing a single game. But if you don’t win the Big One, that doesn’t count for very much. The Vikes came close to that once, but you never hear them compared to that stupid amazing Dolphin team of ‘72, which is brought up with such nauseating frequency. The difference is the final game, and guess what; it ain’t the 1st round wildcard game.
I guess we can talk about lesser degrees of success, and pat ourselves on the back for being the 2nd best, or 3rd best, or 4th best team in the NFL… but my back ain’t broken yet.
by DCPurple on Feb 24, 2009 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one is trying to break backs
but ti suggest that the only good season is a Super Bowl winning season or one where you go undefeated is ridiculous. I am not saying that a 1st round wildcard is all we should hope for, but if only 1 of 32 teams could have a successful season whats the point? If you’re sitting around excepting a Super Bowl every season, you have a 97% chance of being disappointed and being forced to come onto the internet to rage and complain about how much your 10-6, division winning team sucks.
by vikingfuture8816 on Feb 24, 2009 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's saying te Vikings suck
But winning the superbowl is the most important thing. The superbowl winner is the best team in the league. If you don’t win the superbowl, you’re not the best team in the league. Simple as that. Every team wants to be the best. This isn’t little league baseball. “It’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you played the game.” That line doesn’t work in football. Football is a game of wins and losses. Only one team can say they are they best.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Feb 24, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I agree with you. Only one team can say they are the best and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is just because we can’t claim best because we didn’t win the Super Bowl doesn’t mean we had a bad season. It doesn’t mean that they deserve a trophy, even one for participating, but it also doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be proud of what they accomplished and what they have a chance to accomplish in the future.
by vikingfuture8816 on Feb 24, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true
It just depends on your definition of a good season. I think making the playoffs is a good season. Patriot fans see a good season as winning the Superbowl. Anything less would be a bad season. What is sad is that we as Vikings fans are so used to mediocrity, that we accept a decent season for being a good season. Puts it all in perspective when you look at it from a Patriot’s fan’s viewpoint. Then again, Lion’s fan’s think a season with 1 win is a good season, so that also puts it in perspective for ya!
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Feb 24, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Internet Rage
Heh. I’m not raging against the Vikes, or saying that they suck. Or that 10-5 and a Division champ isn’t good.
But those things are just a good start, not the end of the road. The end of the road is really clear in the NFL, and I root for the Vikings to get there, each and every single year. They’ve come close a few times, but never actually made it, and I’m always hoping that next year will be the year. Maybe that makes me pathetic and unrealistic, I think it just makes me a fan :)
by DCPurple on Feb 25, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DC
Didn’t mean for my rant to sound like it was directed at you, you were just standing close. It was more a general gripe. And the road is a great analogy. The road to the Super Bowl for the Vikings is currently being paved. Roads though, aren’t made overnight and if you keep holding off resources and tearing them down, they never get made. Nothing wrong with being a fan, just wish more people could put some perspective on their fandom. Even I hope they get to the Super Bowl, but I also know that the Super Bowl is 11 months away and the road is long. No use in shooting expectations through the roof before the FA and the draft have started.
by vikingfuture8816 on Feb 25, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No Worries
Most of us here are Viking fans, and while we might pick nits here and there, argue about the details or extraneous BS, we’re all united by one main thing; we want to see the Vikes go all the way, every year. Reminds me of squabbling siblings, all snarly sometimes, til some poor fool of an outsider sticks their nose into it and everyone stops to take a bite out of him :)
I was listening to a Redskin talk show this morning, and it was interesting to hear the similarities between their gripes and ours. What struck me most of all was that they too figure that they’re 1 or 2 key players from the Super Bowl…. It just reaffirms to me that competition is fierce, and ain’t no team out there that will want to help the Vikes out by offering up a good QB. Best chance is probably with an AFC team, though…
by DCPurple on Feb 27, 2009 8:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
Is it an upgrade over the current situation? Probably.
Is it the best option ouit there? I don’t think so.
Can a team lead by Sage Rosenfels make it to the Super Bowl? With the defense the Vikings have, yes.
Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals
www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com
by MilCardFan on Feb 23, 2009 7:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Worse Quarterbacks Have...
and by worse, I mean Trent Dilfer.
by LoveHate on Feb 23, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, good as our defense is, it’s not Baltimore good.
by Frost on Feb 23, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
D
I don’t think we ever really got a fair look at Madieu’s game last year. I mean, he looked good, but maybe he’s capable of bringing a bigger impact than we got to see. Looking forward to seeing how that pans out in 2009.
The Raven’s D is crushing… but we wouldn’t have to worry about them til the Big Game, and our D’s got the depth to go that distance with some spring left in their step. My worry would be whether or not we had a QB and WRs that could stretch the Raven’s D and give their corners a nightmare or two.
I keep thinking back to the Steelers/Cards, and I honestly think that if the Vikes had been there, they would have had a good shot at winning, even with our probs in various positions. Only a shot, not a likelihood, but better than than the Cards offered. I expected the Steeler D to smother the Cards, and that just didn’t happen. Not even close. The main diff… QB and WR combo.
I think Sage is an excellent choice and the Vikes should grab him if they can. He’ll be an outstanding backup, with potential. If someone has to go, that someone should have the initials, JDB.
by DCPurple on Feb 24, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mmn, I dunno. I think it would have been just as close as a game if we had made it, but much lower scoring. Pittsburgh is set up to be able to stop the run and force teams to pass, which is what they did to the Cards. The Cards passing game just outclassed their defense. Can’t say the same for our’s. We probably would have lost to the Steelers. Again.
But yeah, I agree with the Rosenfels trade. Who knows, maybe he’ll combine consistancy with accuracy, and, hopefully, learn not to force the throws so much. Could be just what the doctor ordered for us.
by Frost on Feb 24, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely. This will be a great move
on the Vikings part if they pull it off and at a bargain price.
by VikingBillArlingtonVA on Feb 23, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not what I wanted but...
Sage is better than what we have. Maybe enough to be consistant. Is he Super Bowl caliber-I don’t know. Like one writer said, he is young. He has enough under him to go to the next level, if not, he might be enough to push T-Jax.
This is an “I sure hope so”. It does show the Vikings know they need to do something at QB. Thanks Gus but if nothing else, we have a much younger backup QB who just might develop to a bonified starter. I still think we might see Garcia and that might mean seeing T-jax traded.
Personally I think they should start training t-jax to be a slot reciever. He is still a good athlete and that could be a plus for him.
by CitrusFLViking on Feb 23, 2009 7:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Younger-
I meant younger as in younger than Gus. I think he has been around enough to step up and make a playoff run. Should Sage mature at 31 and have 3 good starting years in him then the trade is worth it. I hear the scwabble is Vikings offering a 5th/Texans want a 3rd. Guess is they settle for a 4th. I say hold out on the 5th pick , pay Gus his 250G’s and trade him to Houston as part of the deal. I usually follow the draft better but I don’t see this one being as deep as some years where you might get a lot of sleepers past the 4th round, so a 4th round pick might be more valuable than other years
by CitrusFLViking on Feb 23, 2009 7:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
"What about Sage?"
I wrote a fan post a couple weeks ago, entitled “What about Sage?”. He was the first guy I thought about after Cassel got franchised. I really liked some of the flashes he showed as a back up with Houston. He is perfect with the WCO, Houston runs a similar offense.
And look back at some of the comebacks he made coming off the bench for houston. 4 touchdowns in the 4th quarter against Tennessee last year, only to have Rob Bironas kick an NFL record eighth field goal to beat them. But he had some good games! He also through four picks against one of the best defenses in the league, Baltimore this year without Andre Johnson in the lineup. Take away that game against a team that went to the NFC championship game and his numbers look alot better.
At the least he provides solid competition for Tarvaris. And if we find a diamond in the rough it will come as one hell of a bargain.
by mattscards77 on Feb 23, 2009 8:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sage vs. Garcia
Ok people, I hear WAY too many people who seem to think that Garcia is some kind of upgrade over anyone on our team. Garcia is 39, I would love to see a stat about 39 year old QBs leading their team through an entire season all the way to the super bowl and still playing at a high level. The guy. Is. Done. He’s not even an upgrade over Gus Frerotte.
I don’t know that Sage is going to be better than Tarvaris, but he’s got a great shot at winning a training camp battle. We should have an improved O-line, and I guarantee Sage will play better behind our line than the Texans’. A team who I have no doubt holds the record for giving up sacks in a teams first 6-7 years of existence. If Sage is poised and consistent, which I think he can be with our awesome running game, he could really be a good player for us. If he sucks, it was still worth the risk, and I’m sorry, there are no other good options out there for us other than Derek Anderson and Matt Cassell. Both questionable and overpriced.
I say bring on the Rosencopter. Compared to some of the bonehead things I’ve seen from Tarvaris “I like to hold the ball in the air while I’m getting sacked” Jackson, Sage looks like a safe choice.
by NYCVike on Feb 23, 2009 8:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not Really? See below.
This is more boneheaded than keeping your eyes downfield while being sacked.
by LoveHate on Feb 23, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He Should Have Chosen D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by LoveHate on Feb 23, 2009 8:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Watched that yesterday
And the Arnold “get to the chopper!” remix of it too.
by ericj69 on Feb 24, 2009 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We'll be glad to steal your 4th rounder
Or really, whatever junk you have laying around.
Listen for the distant rotors… the Rosencopter is coming.
Chris - www.HoustonDiehards.com
by HoustonDiehards on Feb 23, 2009 8:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Let me guess
This time we’re offering a 4th and they want a 3rd? Should have bitten last season Texans.
by Bodysuit Man on Feb 23, 2009 9:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Really
How much worse can out QB situation be. With Sage would be an upgrade with the QBs we have on the team right now.
by tyr on Feb 23, 2009 9:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Here's the facts...not pretty
This is depressing…the guy has started 12 games in his backup career of 7 years with a 30:29 TD to INT ratio and his last 10 games he has fumbled 8 times and thrown 22 ints!!! That’s the best our war room can come up with when EVERYONE knows this is the spot we have needed to upgrade for the last decade? Come on…at least talk to Carolina about Delhomme, or Cassell or Palmer…Rosenchopper? Pllllleeeasssse.
by dougvikes on Feb 23, 2009 10:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Teams
But Sage has only really played for Miami & Houston. Two teams that, at the time were not considered high quality teams, some even had poor players. Houston has been on the cusp the past few seasons, but that has been it.
On the fumble stat, I only see 4 over the past two seasons and he lost only two of those.
I was also leaning towards Garcia, but Sage may make TJ work harder this preseason, which will hopefully produce better results from all our QB’s. I can see us standing pat with a QB trio of Sage, TJ & Booty.
by DBQViking on Feb 24, 2009 6:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Words don't do it justice.
Chris - www.HoustonDiehards.com
by HoustonDiehards on Feb 23, 2009 10:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Trying not to be negative
At 1st I was upset. Why we need someone elses backup.? Yes, he will be an upgrade. Do we still go after Garcia and let the 3 battle it out. ? I doubt it. Last couple years Sage played behind off lines less than Vikings and did not have running back like Peterson behind him. He comes from west coast system. I guess time will tell. Trying to look for positives here !! Get off tackle, another CB and WR and let’s go win SUPERBOWL !!! I’ve been Vikings fan since 1965 and been thru alot of heart aches, so while I’m dreaming here, let’s get rid of Childress and bring in Cowher !! GO VIKINGS !!!!
by WVVikings on Feb 24, 2009 6:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cowher’s buying a house in Ohio. If he’s going to be coaching for any NFL team again, safe money is on the Browns, and they just signed Mangini, so I’m not even sure he’ll be coming back. Don’t count on him coming to MN if he does. Just take the coach who led you to a division winner and playoff appearance this season. We don’t want to be the Chargers who try to “upgrade” after a 14-2 season and wind up doing the exact same.
by Frost on Feb 24, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Improvement?
If this rumor is for real, and a deal gets done, is Rosenfels an improvement over Jackson and Frerotte? Probably. Is he enough of an improvement to get the Vikings over the hump? Given the teams he has played for, it is hard to say…but given Chilly’s judgement in the past on QB issues, I don’t feel real enthusiastic about a Rosenfels deal.
by Midnight Rambler on Feb 24, 2009 7:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Still Out There...
I still fear that come September, Brett Favre will have un-retired for the eighth time, and will be suiting up in purple. I suspect Chilly believes so, too. This would explain the Vikings’ lack of interest in the better free agent QBs and potential trades out there.
If Favre listens to his bloated ego and plays for the Vikings, Minnesota will have only given up a fourth-rounder for Rosenfels. They would be free to release (most likely) John David Booty, leaving the other two to back up the ’ole Mississippi Drama Queen.
If Favre does the smart thing and stays retired, the Vikings will have marginally improved their QB situation by adding Rosenfels to the mix.
by Midnight Rambler on Feb 24, 2009 7:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I’m worried about all the INT’s this guy has thrown. Is this really an upgrade? I’m happy the Vikes are trying to address our QB situation, but is this the best they could do?
by KC612 on Feb 24, 2009 8:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, he is pretty accurate from what I can tell. The interceptions just come from forcing the ball into triple coverage so much. He’s rarely going to find triple coverage on this team. What we really needed was a QB who can just make the throws to open recievers, which I’m confident he can do.
To be fair, he hasn’t played on a team with as good an O-line as our’s, or as good of a running game. He’ll be seeing man to man coverage frequently if teams decide to keep stacking the box. Plus he’s younger than Gus or Garcia, so even if he’s just average, he’s a longer-lasting band-aid than either of the other options, with the exception of Jackson.
by Frost on Feb 24, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sage may be a slight upgrade over Gus, but TJ wins this training camp battle.
by KC612 on Feb 24, 2009 8:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not the Final Answer
Rosenfels will be a tremendous upgrade over JOHN DAVID BOOTY.
If Chiller wants to let Rosenfels and T-Jack play patty-cake to see who’s #2 this year, whatever, let them go for it.
But Rosenfels isn’t the #1 QB the Vikes are looking for. A needed piece of the puzzle, yes. Good Lord, how screwed would we be if we had Gus again, and Gus goes down, T-Jack gets his pinky pinked, and we had to rely on JDB?! The thought of it is enough to give me an ulcer.
Grab Rosenfels, but the hunt for a franchise QB goes on…
by DCPurple on Feb 24, 2009 8:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think our OL is all that great. Better than the Texans, but not an elite line like a lot of people like to think.
by KC612 on Feb 24, 2009 10:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I know we’ve all been duscussing this as if it were already a done deal, but now it looks like it really is.
Here’s hoping this turns out to be a genius move. Highly doubt it… but I can hope.
V-I-K-I-N-G-S! Skol Vikings, Let's Go!!
by TheViking83 on Feb 24, 2009 10:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If you want a Veteran QB
He is the best you are going to get. Younger and stronger then Garcia or Hasselmy back, and the rest were just pipe dreams, Cassel, Philly Cry Baby, or over the Warner. Besides we do not have a Moss, or a Cardinal superstar to throw to. I have watched him many times over the last 2 years and he is a big upgrade to what we have. I hope we do not blow this over a draft pick.
by bleedingpurplesince74 on Feb 24, 2009 11:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i’m ok with this because he is a lot better then what we have
Danoo
by Danoo on Feb 24, 2009 12:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What is the plan?
Is he an improvement over what we have? Maybe. Will he allow us to make it deeper into the playoffs? No. Sage is statiscally the same or worse than what we currently have. He is nothing more than a young Gus.
Does this take us out of the running for Garcia? I hope not. I think you could still bring in Garcia as an immediate impact QB and use Sage and Booty as developement guys.
The reality is our great qb guru head coach has decided that Jackson is the man and they need somebody to replace Gus. This “competition” in camp is bogus.
by taf442001 on Feb 24, 2009 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not statistically the same at all!
Rosenfels’s career passer rating of 81.2 is at or slightly above average, and he has completed more than 62% of his passes in the NFL. As a Houston Texan (2006-2008, the same years TJ has been in the league), Sage posted a passer rating of 84.3 and completed 65.6% of his passes.
TJ’s 76.5 passer rating is well below average, and he has only completed 58.4% of his passes.
Frerotte’s career passer rating is 74.2 (and it would be higher than TJ’s if adusted for the fact that passer ratings were lower in his earlier years as a starter, but his performance in the past 3 years is below his career marks anyway). Absolutely no case can be made for Frerotte being nearly as good as Sage Rosenfels with statistics unless they are made up.
The 2006-2008 average for passer rating was 80.3, and the average NFL QB completed 60.7% of his passes.
by KC Viking on Feb 24, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By passer rating they are different by 5% and completion percentage by 7%. That is 1-2 completions per game different on a 25-30 pass game.
Over the last 3 years Jackson has thrown 3.8 int per 100 attempts. Sage has thrown 5.0 per 100 attempts. Jackson has thrown 3.4 TD per 100 attempts. Sage has thrown 5.2 TDs per 100 attempts.
So they both have a ratio of about 1.0 for TD to int.
That means we are trading a 4th round pick for 2 extra compltions per game. In my opinion they are statistically the same.
by taf442001 on Feb 24, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
…but if you think that there is no difference between 3.4 TD/100 passes vs. 5.2 TD/100 passes (12.6 points every 2-3 games), then you are apparently immune to all information, and nothing can help you.
Here’s to hoping anyway:
That is a difference of almost 2 TD over 3 games (12.6 points per 100 attempts). Consider the first 2 games of 2008, when TJ could have led the team to a 2-0 start:
TJ vs. GB: 16/35, 0 TD, 1 INT, lost by 6.
TJ vs. IND: 14/24, 0 TD, 0 INT, lost by 3.
Total: 50.8%, 0 TD, 1 INT…it would have been nice to have completed a few more passes (especially on 3rd downs, the only times Chilly and Bevell believe in throwing anyway) and scored an extra TD to win one of those games (or even a FG to tie the Colts).
What if Big Ben completed 2 fewer passes to Santonio Holmes in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl this year?
What if Eli Manning had completed 1 fewer pass in the Super Bowl 2 years ago?
One fewer lateral pass completed = no Burger King commercial for Vikings fans to enjoy.
One of the greatest Viking games I can recall was against Dallas in (’95 or ’96?). One completion would have meant no tie and a completely forgettable loss.
Entire careers and HoF resumes have hinged on a QB’s ability to complete 1-2 more passes that other QBs could not. The Vikings are getting a noticeable upgrade at QB (a 100% certain upgrade between Sage Rosenfels and Gus Frerotte, which will be well worth a 4th round pick, even if TJ emerges as a superstar).
Sage also did not have the luxury of playing against the sort of soft pass defenses that TJ faced in most of his games this year (the 0-16 Lions, the Cardinals, and the Falcons, especially). Even when TJ completed more than 60% of his passes against the Falcons, he needed a couple more to win the game for us.
by KC Viking on Feb 24, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
forget all that…all i look at is how they improve each year. Tjack 9 td’s and 2 ints…rosenfals 6 td’s and 10 ints…Rosenfals even had two pro bowl recievers to throw to and jackson had none even though he had the best rb in the league.
by vikesfan4lyf on Feb 24, 2009 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, Rosenfels took on the Ravens, who I’m sure Jackson would have had trouble with even when his hand was hot, the Colts, who’s defense was back in full swing unlike when Jackson faced them, and the Jags, who Sage just demolished.
4 of those Ints came against Baltimore, which was the second ranked defense. I’m willing to forgive them, especially since some of them were pretty lucky. How often do you think Ngata is going to leap up, deflect a pass, and then catch it? Sage would have made that TD probably 9/10 if they did the play over.
I won’t disagree that Jackson is improving. He is. I’m rooting for the guy to take the starting job and do well, because I’m tired of nobody or washed up QBs talking trash about him. But Rosenfels is an excellent back up in case Jackson has troubles. Frerotte led this team to an 8-3 record with 12 TDs and, I think, 15 INTs. Maybe it was 18. Sage is not only younger, he’s more mobile, great at play action, and is 8 years younger. He’s an excellent stop-gap solution for our QB woes if none of our younger QBs can step it up.
by Frost on Feb 25, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Go for it!
I was against giving up a 2nd round pick for him last time, but had I known that the Vikings would use that 2nd round pick on someone who wasn’t going to contribute much to the team anyway (plus Frerotte instead of Sage), then I may have been for the trade then.
As long as it’s a 4th round pick to replace Frerotte, then it’s a great opportunity.
Everyone needed to get off the Garcia bandwagon yesterday anyway. The Vikings need 2-3 attempts at a championship run—not just 2009 or tear it down and rebuild again—and Garcia was not going to stick around that long no matter what.
by KC Viking on Feb 24, 2009 1:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So 4 percentage points is the difference between slightly above and well below average?
by KC612 on Feb 24, 2009 2:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly my point
Sage may bring some other intangibles that we have not seen.
Maybe he is more coachable or plays under pressure better. I just do not see this as a legitimate attempt at improving the QB position.
by taf442001 on Feb 24, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He could be a better leader.
Even though I support Tjack more than most he is usually pretty terrible at getting the team to come together for a 4th quarter comeback. I blame this alot on coaching but it is possible Sage might be better at leading a team considering some of his impressive comebacks.
by BeardedAxe on Feb 24, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You decide
The average NFL team completed 61% of passing attempts with a rating of 81.5 in 2008.
The closest examples among qualifiers were David Garrard (81.7 passer rating, 62.6% completion) and Brett Favre (80.5 rating, 65.7 comp%).
It is not so much about 4 points as 8 points. (+4 vs. -4 = 8).
Who would you rather have had in 2008:
Trent Edwards (85.4) or JaMarcus Russell (77.1)?
Peyton Manning (95) or Seneca Wallace (87)?
Matt Ryan (87.7) or Kyle Orton (79.6)?
Jason Campbell (84.3) or Tyler Thigpen (76)?
Joe Flacco (80.3) or Dan Orlovsky (72.6)?
Interesting: only 4 teams had qualifying QBs ranked lower than Garrard (below average), and the only 2 of those who won playoff games had the league’s best or second-best defense also. I’m glad the Vikings finally wised up to this and upgraded their QB corps.
by KC Viking on Feb 24, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget statistics. The guy was backing up Gus Frerotte at Miami he couldn’t even beat out Gus? And this is the guy thats gonna lead the Vikings to their first superbowl victory? I have my doubts this is another wasted season picking up this guy. What a freaking joke
by Zoxide on Feb 24, 2009 5:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Brad Johnson
was a backup to Casey Weldon at Florida State.
How many Pro Bowls and Super Bowls for Casey Weldon, again?
Some guys are legitimately better college QBs than NFL and vice versa.
by KC Viking on Feb 24, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was referring to the Miami Dolphins not the Hurricanes you bonehead
Rosenfels Iowa St
Frerotte Tulsa
…and then you go on to say TJack couldn’t beat out Matt Jones in college!!
Matt Jones Arkansas
TJack Alabama St
There are some really unintelligent posters on this blog
by roundhouse on Feb 24, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"There are some really unintelligent posters on this blog"
I won’t go so far as to call you unintelligent just because you incorrectly think that TJ ONLY played at Alabama State. Do a little research, and then you’ll learn that Tarvaris Jackson was in fact a Razorback who lost to Matt Jones. AND THEN he had to transfer to a Div I-AA school (Alabama State, also close to home) to be guaranteed playing time.
by KC Viking on Feb 25, 2009 12:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is clearly stating that: the fact that the veteran Frerotte beat out the young Rosenfels in Miami (of the NFL!) means very little. Case in point. The league is up in arms over NE’s Cassel, a college and pro back up until last season. In the NFL he’s played better than Leinart (who he sat behind at USC) in their short careers.
by LoveHate on Feb 25, 2009 12:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and...
…TJ couldn’t beat out Matt Jones as a college QB, either.
by KC Viking on Feb 24, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Jones played for Arkansas and TJax
played for I-AA Alabama State. Get your facts straight.
by VikingBillArlingtonVA on Feb 24, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
actually...
T-Jack got a scholarship from Arkansas. He played there 2 years, but couldn’t beat out Matt Jones at the QB position, so he transferred. Sorry bro, but you gotta get your facts straight.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Feb 24, 2009 11:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And TJ developing? By the time hes ready to start for a NFL team if ever he’ll be 40 years old I’ve moved on
by Zoxide on Feb 24, 2009 5:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Please, start getting your crow ready to eat. I want to watch that. I don’t think its going to be next season that he suddenly turns into Peyton Manning or even Chad Pennington, but it’s definitely not going to take forever, unless you happen to be 37 or so.
by Frost on Feb 25, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to see...
that some thought of what I was thinking. Sage played for teams that were not exactly elite. Gus was younger at Miami and still had some stuff. Sage was still climbing the ladder, so to speak. This is a gamble more than a project like t-jax still is. Does this guy who had flashes of good play with bad teams have enough to step it up higher with a team like the Vikings? I am trying to be optomistic. What else can we do at this point?
I don’t think that being said, it means the Vikings won’t sign or trade for a bonified starter if the price is right. If Garcia signs cheap, we have a good challenge. But knowing Jeff got snubbed down here )Bucs) I’m sure he will only sign if he can be #1.
I hope we can sign Brooks at a reasonable price
by CitrusFLViking on Feb 25, 2009 7:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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