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Czarnecki grades NFL teams on their drafts since 2003

John Czarnecki gave the Vikings a B- in this column for FOX Sports.

Star-divide

A B- grade seems a little rough considering that about half the teams in the league produced fewer pro bowlers and another 8 or so had only drafted 2 pro bowlers as well.  Only 6 teams drafted more than 13 starters since 2003 (and the Vikings' 13 starters were from 41 picks):

Arizona 14/40, 2 PB
Indianapolis 15/52, 6 PB
New England 17/51, 5 PB
New York Giants 14/44, 4 PB
San Diego 15/46, 6 PB
Seattle 14/46, 2 PB

Atlanta received a B+ despite drafting only 12 starters in 48 picks, including 1 pro bowler.  Buffalo, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Washington each received the same grade or better with fewer starters and/or pro bowlers (often from more picks).

Then again, some of the Vikings' starters (especially the CB who allowed the biggest cushion and/or the RT who was the most penalized OL, and/or the WR who was written about positively despite the fact that he has failed to match Todd Pinkston's respectable but modest benchmarks for productivity and health in 2 seasons, and/or the DE who was serviceable, but probably can and should be replaced) would not have remained so with a different coach at the helm.

I voted for Pittsburgh and Jacksonville as the best/worst, respectively, in the FOX Sports poll.  As bad as the Troy Williamson bust experience was (and I was one of the last to give up hope on him), at least we didn't have 2 or more of those, as did Detroit and Jacksonville.

Poll
Was Czarnecki's draft grade (B-) for the Minnesota Vikings accurate?
Yes.
23 votes
No, it should have been a B.
8 votes
No, it should have been a B+.
19 votes
No, it should have been an A-.
8 votes
No, it should have been lower.
6 votes

64 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

0 recs  |  Comment 16 comments

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I don't see the "I don't care" option...

V-I-K-I-N-G-S! Skol Vikings, Let's Go!!

by TheViking83 on Apr 16, 2009 3:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Another vote for “I don’t care.”

"Skol pa fiskande"

by NobleSavage on Apr 17, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is hard to say

You have a completely different coach and GM within those 5 years.

I think your knocks on Griffin and Edwards deserve an F grade. Edwards is a good role player and Griffin has showed alot of promise as a tampa 2 corner. Both of these guys would be an upgrade for atleast 50 % of the league.

http://vikingsmashfootball.wordpress.com/

by BeardedAxe on Apr 16, 2009 11:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Edwards is a good role player, but not a starter, so I guess we can agree on that much.

Griffin is probably a great starter at safety, but the facts are:
1) that he gave up the biggest cushion in the NFL in 2008 (not an exaggeration, but well-documented on sites like football outsiders and/or advanced football statistics). It was so big that it also guaranteed that he wasn’t going to press at the line, which ought to be one of his strengths.
2) had the most tackles of any NFL CB in 2008
3) #2 is largely because of #1 and his poor coverage skills that necessitated #1.

by KC Viking on Apr 17, 2009 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edwards

An upgrade over 50% of the league? Get real. Ray Edwards never faced a double team while lining up next to Kevin, Pat, and JA and still had no better stats in terms of sacks, fumbles, etc. as he had accumulated in fewer games and fewer starts in 2007.

by KC Viking on Apr 17, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

They went back and measured the cushion he gave on every play of the 2008 season? I seriously doubt that.
Are you also forgetting he is a Tampa 2 corner? They are meant to be sure tacklers not necessarily great in coverage.

Ray Edwards is a LDE, this is not a sack, big play producing position. They are very rarely double teamed on pass plays. He is mostly used to stop the run and contain the edge. I have seen Edwards do just that numerous times. He is not the best in the league but there are alot of teams he could start on.

http://vikingsmashfootball.wordpress.com/

by BeardedAxe on Apr 17, 2009 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

More on Griffin and Edwards

First of all, this is not news about Cedric Griffin, whose draft profile also specified an excessive cushion and poor backpedal among his negatives. (Also note that SAFETY is listed as his primary position coming out of college.) Griffin was analyzed on video by Football Outsiders numerous times. In 2007, Cedric Griffin allowed the 2nd worst yards per pass and he gave up the largest cushion in the NFL according to numerous sources.

Here is what Football Outsiders wrote about Vikings DBs in their preview of the lost playoff game:

Game charting showed a huge difference between Minnesota cornerbacks Antoine Winfield and Cedric Griffin. The charting numbers show Winfield with 5.5 yards allowed per pass and a 67 percent Success Rate, second among cornerbacks with at least 40 charted passes. (Who’s first? Look down a few paragraphs.) Griffin has 9.0 yards allowed per pass and a 44 percent Success Rate, both among the worst numbers for starting cornerbacks. If you prefer league PBP to game charting, I can tell you that Winfield had 56 pass tackles and a 45 percent Stop Rate on those tackles, the best Stop Rate of any cornerback if we include only pass tackles and not passes defensed. Griffin had 57 pass tackles but a Stop Rate of only 21 percent on those tackles. The result could be a huge game for Kevin Curtis, who will likely be covered by Griffin on the left while Winfield has DeSean Jackson over on the right.

DeSean Jackson only had 1 catch. I don’t know if Griffin was covering Curtis (4 receptions) or Avant (5 receptions), but McNabb definitely picked on Griffin more times or with greater success for more yards.

All CB’s job descriptions are as follows:
1) prevent a pass from being completed (in your zone or to the specific man-to-man assignment)
2) tackle any receivers in your zone/assignment without allowing excessive yardage or a first down to be gained (this is why total tackles mean less than the success rate)
3) force a fumble while doing so, if possible. Tony Dungy, the architect of the so-called “Tampa-2”, always valued DBs with good enough hands to get turnovers, and that information has been lost while traveling to Chilly’s brain. Ronde Barber has averaged more INTs per year than Cedric Griffin has in the first 3 years of his career. That could prevent CG from succeeding as a safety, but at least his primary job would be to tackle, which he does well.

With regards to Ray Edwards, all I’m saying is that he’s not an above average starter. He’s very similar to Darrion Scott (led the team with 5.5 sacks from the left side in 2006) or Derrick L. Alexander (2nd to John Randle with 7.5 from the left side in 1998) or Udeze (tied for the team lead in sacks with 5.0 from the left side in 2007) except that they had just as many or more sacks without being surrounded with quite as much talent. Edwards was drafted as a situational pass rusher, so it wasn’t unreasonable to expect more from him, even after shifting to the left side. And shouldn’t he have registered more tackles per game or per start on the left side in 2008 than he did on the right side in 2007? I would have thought so, but it didn’t really happen.

by KC Viking on Apr 17, 2009 12:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't you think he'd have more tackles?

I mean , everyone runs away from the Williams Wall.

by minnesota moose on Apr 17, 2009 1:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, Ray Edwards.

If they run around the Williams, they have to run by Jared Allen (hmmm) or Ray Edwards.

by minnesota moose on Apr 17, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Think about it.

by minnesota moose on Apr 17, 2009 1:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Edwards and Allen

…had about the same number of tackles and assists (combined) in 2008. Usually, the LDE gets more opportunities since the right side of the OL is usually the better run blocking side (and most often the strong side when a TE is in the lineup). Chad Greenway started at LOLB last year, and he had far more tackles than Leber or the combined MLB starters. That also suggests that Ray Edwards is not all that at all.

by KC Viking on Apr 17, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Linebackers and Safetys get the most tackles

It is a simple fact. Trent Cole is tied for 88 with 77 tackles and he had more than any other DE in 2008 by a longshot.

Greenway is one of the best young linebackers in the league and nobody said Edwards was all that. Not to mention, there are only so many tackles to go around. JA and RE were tied at 54, and JA is arguably the best 4-3 end in the league.

http://vikingsmashfootball.wordpress.com/

by BeardedAxe on Apr 17, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No arguments there

LB and S get more tackles, and Greenway is a very good OLB.

My point was that Greenway probably made more tackles than Leber and also more than the MLBs’ total because more rushing attempts were made to the offensive right/defensive left. Therefore, Edwards probably had more opportunities than JA to make tackles, but ended up with about the same total (but a lower percentage of opportunities).

by KC Viking on Apr 17, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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