Where We Talk About Draft Grades and Their Uselessness
"The Vikings targeted speed on their board and they definitely got it with wide receiver Troy Williamson, who wowed Minnesota enough that the Vikings passed on Mike Williams. Defensive end Erasmus James gives them much-needed help up front, guard-tackle Marcus Johnson will solidify the offensive line and running back Ciatrick Fason has the potential to be a terrific steal in the fourth round. Dustin Fox is a good cornerback and defensive tackle C.J. Mosley is a motivated overachiever.”
That was Mel Kiper's assessment of the Minnesota Vikings' 2005 Draft the day after said draft had taken place. Kiper and his hair gave the Vikings a B+ "grade" for their draft.
As any Viking fan knows, Minnesota's 2005 draft class is on the short list of worst drafts in NFL history. To review. . .
Troy Williamson - Everything that can be said about Williamson has already been said. Although it could probably be said with fewer expletives. Or more expletives, depending on what makes you happier.
Erasmus James - When he was on the field, he wasn't awful or anything. It's just that he could never get on the field. He was eventually traded for a seventh-round pick. . .the Vikings sent that pick back to the Redskins in the trade to move up in the fifth round this year and select South Carolina LB Jasper Brinkley.
Marcus Johnson - Played a couple of positions on the offensive line, and was relatively horrible at all of them, save one surprising performance at left tackle in the 2008 season opener against Green Bay. Actually lasted longer on the roster than any other member of this class. . .which, considering that this draft saw two first-round picks for the Vikings, is embarrassing and sad.
Dustin Fox - Who? Yeah, that sums it up.
Ciatrick Fason - Was briefly used as a goal-line back. . .which was, apparently, the ideal role for him, as his 3.2 ypc average in two years indicates that was really all the further he could get.
C.J. Mosley - Probably the best performer from the Vikings' 2005 draft class. Showed some promise as a backup DT as a rookie, and was eventually traded to the New York Jets as part of the trade that brought Brooks Bollinger to Minnesota.
Adrian Ward - Didn't even make the roster.
Grading a draft less than 24 hours after it occurs is a ludicrous practice, and one that I haven't engaged in as long as I've been running this site. After I get home from work this afternoon, I'll have my impressions on the Vikings' 2009 draft and how I feel the Vikings fared, but we don't know anything about how successful this draft is for the Vikings at this point in time.
The same thing goes for pretty much everyone other team, too. Sure, the Raiders were roundly ripped for selecting Darrius Heyward-Bey at #7. . .but what if he turns out to be a better WR than Michael Crabtree, the "consensus" best wide receiver in this year's draft? What if Matthew Stafford turns out to be more like Tim Couch than Peyton Manning in terms of QBs drafted #1 overall? Heck, what if. . .God forbid. . .Percy Harvin decides his love for pot is greater than his love for football and gets repeatedly nailed by the league's substance abuse policy?
We all have our impressions of how each team did this weekend at Radio City Music Hall. But the fact of the matter is that nobody. . .not you, not me, not Mike Mayock, not Mel Kiper. . .has any idea how any team in this year's draft did at this moment in time. I'm not saying that the draft "grades" aren't fun to read and provide a nice little distraction, but it's pretty much impossible to put any real stock into them at this point in time.
With that said, you can feel free to discuss the draft grades from the "experts," as well as your own personal thoughts and impressions of this year's draft here. I'll have my impressions of Minnesota's draft and the draft in general later this afternoon. Thanks to everyone that visited the site this weekend to make it a success, and if you're here for the first time, go on and sign up for an account so you can join the party!
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Comments
OMG
That has to be the worst draft ever.
I think Dustin Fox is working at Home Depot
Marcus Johnson at “Carls Jr.”
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds"
Samuel Adams
by RileysCannibalJct on Apr 27, 2009 7:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely not a good draft when the best player taken was part of a trade for the immortal Brooks Bollinger….
by Knut on Apr 27, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marcus Johnson
…signed with the Raiders, last I knew. Al Davis has made the team almost the laughingstock of a bad fast food joint, but he’ll still have an NFL salary and be able to enjoy all the benefits of living in/near LA.
by KC Viking on Apr 27, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and the real kick to the shorts is if they had reversed the order of their needs in the 1st round, they could have had Shawn Merriman (I don’t think they would have gone for Demarcus Ware due to his size; even in the Cowboys scheme, some people weren’t convinced) and Roddy White (presumably).
I think it was Reusse who had a pretty good line about Williamson, something like: the big debate was whether to take Troy Williamson or Mike Williams, and the answer was “neither.”
by jianfu on Apr 28, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
But the Vikes draft this year literally has a chance to be total home run, and I don’t think that this is going to be a mirror of the 2005 draft because too many of these players can move to other positions to help out somewhere else.
- Brinkley could easily put another 20 pounds on his frame and move to D-End.
- Harvin is a slash type player who could excel in multiple positions.
- Loadholt — If he doesn’t make it at right tackle, and I think he will, you could easily move him to RG and he’d be the second coming of Dave Dixon.
- Allen — I think he was an absolute STEAL in the 3rd round. I think he’ll have a better pro career than Vontae Davis will and he would probably have been a first round top 20 pick next year had he stayed in school. He’s a perfect nickel corner in the Tampa two scheme.
- Sanford will make the roster as a special teams player and can play either safety position (he played both in college) which could make him a valuable backup player if he’s as good as a lot of scouts think he is.
Remember the old Jimmy Johnson draft maxim: “Don’t get to caught up in times and reps and combine stuff. Watch some tape and see if the guy makes plays, see if the guy is a difference maker on the field.” All of the Vikings picks this year are guys like that — they didn’t impress at the combine, but all make plays.
FWIW, if Derrious Heyward-Bey is better than Michael Crabtree OR Jeremy Maclin, I will eat my hat. I think Hakeem Nicks and Kenny Britt will be better than Heyward-Bey. I don’t care if he’s fast, he can’t catch the football. He had three games last year in which he DIDN’T CATCH A PASS. This is exactly like Troy Williamson, except he’s got worse hands than Williamson did. It’s an Al Davis pick, because he was the fastest guy at the combine. IMO, someone needs to wrest that franchise from Davis before they become the Detroit Lions for the next 15 years.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Apr 27, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Worse hands than Williamson? Maybe, but only because Williamson couldn’t see either!
by LoveHate on Apr 27, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Raiders
In terms of futility in this decade, especially that latter half, the Raider and the Lions both led the league. The only surprise is that the Raiders didn’t pull off 0-16 before the Lions.
We can talk all day about what a fruity nut-job Al Davis is, but the sad truth is that no matter how crazy he is, or how he’s run that franchise, the Raiders made a trip to the Super Bowl during the oughts. The Vikings haven’t.
The Minnesota Vikings - Undefeated in the Playoffs at Lambeau Field!
by BaldViking on Apr 27, 2009 9:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like that Allen played strictly man-coverage in college. That’s great. Obviously he wasn’t spectacular at it, or else he wouln’t have gone in the third round, but from what I’ve read he was a pretty good corner and simply didn’t have the ball thrown his way last season.
Seems to me he’s either going to replace McCauley or Sapp on the roster. While Sapp takes stupid penalties, he tends to make big plays to make up for them. McCauley just ate up roster space last season pretty much. He’s definitely going to have to fight this pre-season if he wans to stay on.
by Frost on Apr 27, 2009 9:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Grades...
It’s more of an initial potential grade. Also, it’s the offseason; what else is there to do? Those of us who have tried (and failed) to get interested into other sports have nothing better to do than try and figure out who drafted well, who didn’t, and who any steals might be.
Sure, you can’t really grade a draft until three, four years down the line, but it’s still fun to speculate how the teams did. Kiper himself says you have to wait that long. So, of course, take all these grades and whatnot with the knowledge that they are purely speculation, just like all the mock drafts were, and know that it’s all in fun.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
by Manimal on Apr 27, 2009 10:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Glad
I’m not the only one who doesn’t find baseball an “alternative” for football cabin fever.
by CitrusFLViking on Apr 28, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just laugh
I mean, I was PISSED that we didnt get mike williams haha. he was a bigger bust then troy williamson.
cromscorner.blogspot.com
by Crom on Apr 27, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts and Impressions
I think it’s awesome we took Percy, he’s who I wanted, and I can’t stop smiling. Loadholt should be an instant upgrade at tackle. I think Allen is a little small, yet not many people throw at him, so he could indeed be a steal. Brinkley is a solid addition, and Sanford is intriguing. I also think McCauley has played his last game in purple. Impressions? I’m sorry I don’t do impressions.
by Duluth Viking on Apr 27, 2009 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So does anyone else find it interesting that people are chiding the Vikes for taking a risk on Harvin, and yet say no such think about the Patriots taking Robiskie, who also tested positive for marijuana at the combine?
by Frost on Apr 27, 2009 12:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Brandon Tate was the other player who tested positive at the Combine. But yeah – I guess it is a bit of a double standard. I think the media is jumping on it a bit more because 1) Harvin is a first-rounder and 2) the Vikes have made a big deal about drafting good character guys during the post-Love Boat years.
Media did the same thing with Jared Allen last year.
by Knut on Apr 27, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
but this is what happens when you vow to “clean up the team” and “build around character guys”. You end up pigeon-holing yourself into taking guys because you make that statement or you get burned at the stake for those selections by the media.
FWIW, the Pats took 18 months of garbage (and continuing to this day) about the whole SpyGate fiasco, much of which was completely overblown, so to say the media treats them differently than any other team is hooey.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Apr 27, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I agree that the Spygate wasn’t as huge a deal as it was made out to be. I’m thinking more along the line of certain draft analysts though, rather than the mainstream media.
by Frost on Apr 27, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure the positive test wasn’t the extent of the criticism of Harvin. There has been speculation that Harvin failed a drug test and missed time while at FL. He has an actual “history.” Not sure whether or not Robiski has any history, but the drug test is all that has been reported (under reported).
With that said, its not as though Harvin has been prosecuted for any of his misgivings. His issue seems to be maturity. I think the Vikings are a great fit for him. Ego? He’s no AP – check. The Vikings have the leadership and role models necessary for a young guy like Harvin. It should be exciting.
by LoveHate on Apr 27, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I read, the knock on Harvin was the failed drug test, and then some scuffles he had back in highschool. I didn’t read anything about any trouble at Florida. I just found it ironic that in the draft grades, the Vikes were knocked for selecting Harvin because of the failed drug test, but the Pats weren’t for selecting Robiskie. Who knows.
by Frost on Apr 27, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't remember Robiskie...
failing a drug test. I thought it was just Harvin and some other WR who was taken later in the draft?
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 28, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tate, my mistake. I meant Tate. I think that’s his name anyways.
by Frost on Apr 28, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Draft grades should be revisited
I always enjoy seeing first impression grades based on talent vs. risk, value over remaining talent in the draft or FA, and impact potential (filling a need vs. depth). It’s not always completely meaningless, but rather something that adds context. The Raiders’ low draft grade this year is somewhat a product of the Vikings high grade in ’05, and had there been no draft grade then, there would have been less of an impetus to learn from that mistake and move forward a bit differently.
I wish Kiper and McShay and a few others had a special which aired the week before the draft in which they discussed their own grades and rankings from 3-5 years ago and had some sort of scoring system per draft class and an ongoing head-to-head record. I also wish that these guys were required to say who the Vikings should have taken instead of Harvin at #22 (and at #54 if an OT at #22) and review that in 3-5 years.
I’m surprised to have not found a grade A or even B+ for the Vikes this year. Some said Harvin was a top 15 talent or better, so why isn’t he a bargain at #22? Some said that WR and OT were major needs, and both were filled. It is funny to me that draft analysts will award an A to a team for taking their best player available while ignoring a need and a C+ to another team that drafts a bargain relative to the pick which also fills a need. Kiper said during the draft that the Lions had selected 2 of his top 10 players in Stafford and Pettigrew, and both fill needs, but no A for them?
It proves to me that BPA is always a nonexistent idea because no team can completely separate filling a need at certain positions with a finite number of draft picks from prospects’ rankings/grades. It is not wise to get zero value by drafting an expensive backup at an area of strength and youth already when a very similarly talented player is available at a position of need (and may also represent a bigger difference in value over other potential draftees or free agents).
by KC Viking on Apr 27, 2009 2:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Consensus Grades
If you check out the ESPN website they hand out grades on all teams and each team is graded by nine different sportswriters. NBCSports.com gave the Vikes an A-, while Foxsports gave them a C.
Overall the Vikes graded the worst out of the NFC North teams.
But I like our picks and now our free agents look like they can make an impact.
by DBQViking on Apr 27, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For being the worst, at least in the eyes of some experts, I think our draft was still solid.
The main reason the Bears get such a good grade is that the experts are factoring in the aquisition of Cutler via draft picks. It’s like saying our draft last year was amazing because we got Allen via picks.
The Lions are historically bad, one good draft isnt going to fix it, so I could care less if they get graded higher than us.
And the Packers just suck. ;D
In AP I trust
by FarvaForTheVikings on Apr 27, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another thing
A single day 1 draft pick makes a ton of difference.
Had the Vikes drafted WR DeSean Jackson last year, that draft would have impacted 2008 in 2 major areas instead of 1 (Jared Allen). It also would have allowed the Vikes to draft CB Darius Butler in the 1st this year (and move C. Griffin to safety), possibly upgrading 2 positions in the Vikings’ disappointing secondary over last year with all of the same changes on offense. 2 more defensive positions could have been upgraded (plus whatever improvement DSJ and DB could provide) with the same needs filled (WR, RT, S etc.).
by KC Viking on Apr 27, 2009 2:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I still think they could move Griffin
Allen was a top cover corner in a pass heavy conference this year (SEC). There’s some question about his ability to play on the outside, but if he has a good camp and the team keeps Sapp and McCauley, they could easily move Griffin to the SS position during the preseason for some reps at least and see how it works out.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Apr 27, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope so
I’ll be impressed whenever I hear this from the Vikings or from training camp coverage that they are no longer in denial about Griffin as a CB. I liked the pick anyway, but figured that Childress still wouldn’t give him a real shot at the starting CB job.
by KC Viking on Apr 27, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rating drafts they day after everyone is picked is like
Rating wines the day after they were bottled.
by ericj69 on Apr 27, 2009 2:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or...
Rating Breast Implants the day after surgury!
Eeewww Gross.
by LoveHate on Apr 27, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost like wine
except that we know a bit about the ingredients already, and NFL players usually have their prime years early on. Despite the rumors to the contrary, it even holds true with WRs sometimes (TB’s Michael Clayton).
The real question is whether pot residue will show up in the nose or finish.
by KC Viking on Apr 27, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kiper...
rated the Vikes draft a “C” while the Quackers got an “A”??? The slobbery love affair between ESPN (Empty-headed Sports Personalities Network) and Green Bay continues…update tomorrow on Soap Opera Digest…
by purplegrey on Apr 27, 2009 4:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The packers get an A rating on their draft just about every year and every year only 1 of the guys drafted ever pans out for them. I’m not gonna worry at all about the packers draft because as good a pick as Raji was for them, their second pick is so-so and everybody they took after that (which was round 5 and beyond if i’m not mistaken) is probably gonna suck.
On top of that, the packers focused on making the switch to 3-4 which necessitated the two top picks of theirs but forced them to ignore their two biggest defensive needs in Corner and Safety. The only picked up one of either and that was 6th round i believe.
Not to mention the fact that the personnel they already have are not 3-4 ideal.
Green Bay sucks again this year! :-)
by Hoss-Drone on Apr 27, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you outta get a better look on the Packers last 3 drafts, cause they have several that panned out and only one that hasn’t done a thing…Harrell. As for their staff, um, yeah. Capers….Trgovac….Kevin Greene. they filled their biggest need at NT, OT, OLB…where did you come up with S and CB? However, the Packers are making that transition to the 3-4, so they probably won’t be good until another 2 years. Their draft was impressive though.
by Jabooty on Apr 28, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C? maybe the C stands fo championship :)
NFL-Lions,Vikings,Texans,Bills
MLB-Rays,Twins,Marlins,Reds
NBA-T-Wolves,Cavliiers,Warriors,Bobcats
NHL-Wild,Penguins
NCAA-Gophers,Gators,Longhorns,Fighting Irish
all in the order in which i root for 1st
by RaysOfHope on Apr 27, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Along with a few other teams
It is so obvious. I was shocked to see the Chilly interview which didn’t provide any personality for the ESPY Mr Congeniality Award. Now we’ll never get any coverage. They should have interviewed Jared Allen. He would tell it like it is and probobly get more interviews. Hire Jared for PR interviews! Put Chilly back in the janitors closet where they found him.
by CitrusFLViking on Apr 28, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all fairness
Green Bay has drafted well for a long time, for the most part. They were second-guessed for taking Rodgers when Favre still had some years left, but eventually they parlayed that into additional first round picks and a seamless transition to a promising young QB.
Raji was highly regarded and safe, and so was Matthews—especially at #23. They drafted OTs in rounds 4 and 5 who were considered great sleepers. Meredith has longer arms than Oher or Monroe, FWIW. If only one turns out to be a starter, or even just a serviceable backup, it will be worth a 4th or 5th round pick. Another 5th rounder may be their starting FB. They may hit on 2 of 3 6th and 7th rounders, too. This is the sort of draft which will look good if their top 2 are above average and 2-3 of the rest end up contributing and filling needs on the roster for 3 years.
Of course, there is the possibility that Raji is as unspectacular as Glen Dorsey was last year. Kiper’s draft grade could look silly in 2-3 years.
by KC Viking on Apr 28, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Green Bay has a good front office, probably the best track record in the division at this point. They’ve been particularly good at nabbing smaller school wideouts.
I was a big fan of Meredith and would have been happy with him in the 2nd round; obviously NFL teams didn’t feel the same way. He did have some “love of the game” concerns, though.
by jianfu on Apr 28, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grade Now, not Later
Grading later is horsecrap. That’s like giving someone a hard time because they thought last year’s Super Bowl champ has the chops to repeat this year, and this year it doesn’t happen. The person catches hell because his middle name isn’t “Nostradamus”?
The draft is a crap shot, you rolls your dice, you takes your chances, along with everyone else. All you can honestly and reasonable grade on is whether or not the team made the best possible choices with the info and choices they had available to them at the time. Did they pick the BPA? Or did they pick the BPA at any given position to feel a real need on the team? For all we know, Stafford will get sacked in his first pre-season game and blow out his knee, derailing an otherwise brilliant career, forever. You just don’t know what’s going to happen and that means the only possible grade that means anything whatsoever, is the grade that’s given right after the draft.
The rest is smug hindsight by people who have the luxury of seeing how the future really turned out. I’d be a lot more impressed if they could have made those accurate predictions BEFORE the draft, then they might actually be useful.
by DCPurple on Apr 28, 2009 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Right
Drafts should be graded now for the reasons you say, and they should be revisited later with both perspectives, too. The fact is that some organizations consistently draft better than others without ever having a draft like the Vikes did in ‘05, so it’s important to learn from past drafts. And more often than not, it is like breaking up with an ex…the warning signs had been there after all, but they seemed worth ignoring at the time. Sometimes the bad was worth the good, but usually it’s best to avoid those traits next time.
Although Antrel Rolle had been ranked higher than Carlos Rodgers by NFLDraftScout in 2005, it is easy to see in hindsight that Rolle was the more likely of the two to be moved to a safety position while Rodgers was the more natural CB. It’s also one widely available source which had ranked Mark Clayton higher than Troy Williamson and Mike Williams. So, while Williamson’s speed and life story (TW had been featured on TV once as a former burn victim, etc. while Mark Clayton had been a hero by rescuing victims from a serious car accident on I-35) may have been compelling enough on draft day to ignore other differences between the two, it’s been clear for at least two years that the same information should not have been glanced over just for the sake of straight line speed. You can also see that Dustin Fox had been ranked 136th, and that several available DBs were available and ranked higher than Fox (CB Ellis Hobbs and FS Sean Considine, to name just two).
If nobody looked back on previous drafts, then there would have been no apparent reason to question the Raiders’ choice of DHB this year any differently than TW in 2005. (Although I think he is similar, it is also possible that DHB could surprise everyone but Al Davis. I doubt it, but we’ll see in 4-5 years.)
I personally don’t like it when a player like Erasmus James is given the same generic label as Ryan Leaf (raw tools, no skills, headcase/personality issues) or Ahmad Carroll (simply overmatched at the NFL level) or Tony Mandarich (steroid abuser/cheater who stopped once the paychecks arrived) for having injury problems. Injuries can happen to anyone in the NFL, so I’d rather see past draft picks labeled as star (A), 3-5+ year starter (B), useful ©, disappointment (D), failed to develop (F), and injured (I). By a system like this, the Vikings’ 2005 draft looks like this: Williamson D; E James D or I; M Johnson C; Dustin Fox F (or perhaps a D since he missed so much time with broken bones); Ciatrick Fason C; CJ Mosley C; Adrian Ward F. That GPA is still terrible, around 1.3. I think it takes 5 years to really evaluate a draft.
Troy Williamson may have his last chance to earn a starting job in the NFL this year with the Jags. I doubt it, but it’s just barely possible.
by KC Viking on Apr 28, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loadholt vs Beatty
Was some discussion on draft day. After seeing some film on both it seem The Load was better suited for run blocking OT. (Good for AP. )He seemed to lack a quick outside step to follow a DE continuously around the corner and buy a little extra time. Then again he had to do something right to protect a Heisman QB. Beatty was a good technique pass blocker and bought time for his QB, but seemed to be pushed around a little more in the trenches on the run. Overall I think the choice was good for for our style and running game. Should open more holes on both sides of the line. I’m sure his pass blocking will be something they will focus on and it will be a year of adjustment for him in that area.
by CitrusFLViking on Apr 28, 2009 10:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As long as it isn't an East coast team or LA
Wish the T-wolves had the brains to rebuild as well as Chicago has after the Jordon era. Most of it is management but this frickin draft lottery sucks. All these years of nothing and we’re never in a draft position that warrents us taking one of the top 2 players )franchise picks). Only hope for this team is getting Griffin. I think we could build around him Jefferson, and Loveshack. Then a pointguard would have been good. Should have signed Billops long term when we had him. Kept Mayo or the dude we got in the 2nd round last year. Was that Chambers?
Uhggg! I’m chatting NBA now? I better call the Dr.
by CitrusFLViking on Apr 28, 2009 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Draft Grades???
Jolly good show, Gonzo. This contest is more biased than Dancing with the Stars. Close the windows. I feel a draft. Cutler improves Chicago’s draft grade this year, but Jared Allen had no impact on the Viking’s grade of last year. Draft grades? Really??? Based on what? The fewest spelling errors on the cards that were handed to Goodell? I suspect the grading formula involves multiplying by both the desired Neilson ratings and the TV market size of the teams involved, while subtracting the critics own social security number from the point totals of any teams that the critic doesn’t particularly like. Are the votes in for NFL rookie of the year yet? That could decide the entire season, couldn’t it? Where are those Pat Williams Society of the Undrafted grades at? Call the Psychic Hotline! No wait… Why hasn’t the Psychic Hotline called us up yet? What kind of psychics are they, anyway? We demand to know who’s the best and now! Must we wait until Minnesota has two senators in DC or something to find out the future? Why play any football games before the decision of the judges is final on these draftees? We want immediate results! This is the 21st century! Twitter should decide the Super Bowl victor in advance. It’s Fantasy Football or nothing! Wouldn’t that have been Vince Lombardi’s view?
by Elgar on Apr 28, 2009 5:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
True
Every year I feel like Mel and others have a completely different grading scale. I think it comes down to who drafts the most attractive combination of Kiper’s (or McShay’s or whomever’s) top man crushes and underdogs.
Also, it seemed as though many draft analysts thought that MN had a need at center, as if they’d forgotten that Ryan Cook could possibly fill that role (and better than he was at RT, hopefully).
by KC Viking on Apr 28, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Center Deficits
Aren’t people worried about Cook fitting in awkwardly as a center? I know that was his college position, but he has no pro experience at the position. Ideally, the center is your smartest lineman and a leader. Ryan Cook couldn’t even remember the snap count last season and can’t have much of a rep among his peers. Apparently, it’s also best for your center to be a little shorter than Cook.
I’m not sure why this is an issue. Maybe coaches want to force their quarterbacks into a crouch so they’re better prepared to push themselves into a quick drop back. Maybe coaches don’t want some tall jerk blocking passing lanes in the middle of their blocking schemes. Maybe coaches want the snap to be as quick as possible and being taller means a longer arm which means a longer distance between ball and quarterback which means a slightly longer snap.
I dunno. I’m still worried about the center position. If we still had Matt Birk, I’d be on board for this year’s offensive line. But, our left tackle is overpaid and overrated, our center is a question mark, our right guard is nothing special, and our right tackle is either a rookie or a mediocre vet. Granted, I’m looking forward to watching Loadholt.
by oblivionspocket on Apr 29, 2009 4:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember...
Even with all your questions…
Minnesota Vikings Offensive Line > 95% of other teams’ Offensive Lines
So, you gotta be happy with that. I’m a bit biased, of course.
McKinnie, while he may be a bit overrated, is still a solid left tackle. It’s a position we, as fans, haven’t had to really worry about for years.
Hutchinson is a stud; that’s all there is to that.
Sullivan or Cook will be solid at center; sure, neither will be Birk, but who was? It will just take time. Sullivan had a year to learn under Birk, get all the line calls down, and get practice reps. Cook has years of experience at right tackle, and maybe since he controls the snap, he won’t forget so often. It was his position in college, so he’s comfortable snapping the ball, and having the guards to help around him could make him much better. I’m optomistic whoever starts at center will be good, if not great, this year.
Herrera has grown into an underrated part of the Vikings’ line. He’s not flashy, but he’s consistently solid.
I’m assuming Loadholt will start at right tackle, and from watching him at Oklahoma, as well as knowing how big he is, I think he will do very well this year. He is going to maul those defensive ends with untold agression. Big, big boy.
Another thing to note: if Sullivan starts at center, that leaves Cook and Hicks as backups. Despite his problems, Cook can play practically every position on the offensive line, much like Hicks. They may not be the best linemen in the league, but I would be extremely happy with those two as jack-of-all-trades backups. Two guys who can play anywhere, basically.
Overall, I’m very happy with our offensive line; not perfect, but they’re pretty damn good.
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by Manimal on Apr 29, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mel from 2006
Minnesota Vikings: GRADE: C+
Linebacker Chad Greenway was a very good pick at No. 17, while Cedric Griffin is a solid defensive back who needs to play the ball better. Ryan Cook is a versatile center who could be moved elsewhere on the offensive line. QB Tarvaris Jackson went a bit high, but he has a chance to be the Vikings’ future quarterback. DE Ray Edwards struggled as a junior, and I thought he needed another season at Purdue.
Very good…solid…versatile…future QB…needs seasoning = C+?
I thought it was a C+ also, but that’s because I would not have described Griffin or Cook so favorably. And had I known that Artis Hicks would be as good as he was, my perception of that draft would have been in the B range. But Hicks was barely mentioned.
Another thing: good grades sometimes go to those who “go get their guys” with trades and such, but not when the VIkings do it (especially if it burns 2 late round picks to move up a handful of slots to take a project LB).
by KC Viking on Apr 28, 2009 7:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Movin' on up
The Vikings could have taken that punter, Morestead, instead of a “project LB”, too. I suspect that mistake will be regretted.
There’s also a rook FA signing that totally perplexes me; Sean Glennon (QB). Maybe there’s alot more to the guy than what I’ve been able to dig up, but if so, I can’t find it.
by DCPurple on Apr 29, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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