Why all the haters?
by Figgs on Apr 29, 2009 2:20 PM CDT
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PrintAs I read posts and peruse this site, I see an awful lot of Vikings fans simply lambasting Brad Childres for everything under the sun. For a guy that has consistenly moved forward in the division and keeps winning more and more games every year (and I don't see anything indication that this will not be the case this coming season), I can't understand why so many people hate him so much. I fully understand what it is like to disagree with some of the stuff he does, I imagine that goes on with all football fans, but they don't hate their coaches like Vikings fans hate Childress.
If I go by what I've read so far about Vikings fans general opinion of Childress, I'll probably regret opening up this can of worms, but I guess I want to know "why all the haters"?
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One reason,
Mentioned it time and time again.
One of the basic requirements I have for a head coach for my favorite NFL team is knowing the BASIC rules and the strategies behind playing the game.
One of those is clock management.
At the end of the Titans game, he punted on 4th and 18 with 1:53 seconds left on the clock in the 4th quarter.
He had already used all the time outs earlier in the 4th quarter.
Anyone with half a brain would know that the Titans would simply kneel the ball 3 times and run the clock out, which is what they did.
Now, it is bad enough that he punted in that situation, because he is giving up.
But the worse part was his explanation for punting: “Based on the way we were playing defense, I thought we would get the ball back.”
ANY idiot knows that you can’t get the ball back if the other team takes a knee and runs the clock out, which is exactly what they did.
That is only one reason, there are many others.
The bottom line is that he has done less with a team stacked with talent that Wilf has spent millions on, than Tice did with a team that was owned by that penny pinching Red Mccombs.
simply put
he’s an extremely unlikable guy. Beyond his pathetic game management and his questionable style of offense, he’s just a boring, passionless coach. I just wish he would climb out from under his shell and show people that he actually cares deeply about what is going on. Sure. The team’s record has improved (which I think adding a franchise RB and a franchise DE helped cause more than the coaching), but I sincerely wish someone else was conducting the train.
V-I-K-I-N-G-S! Skol Vikings, Let's Go!!
Its simply a common 'viking fan' theme = hate the head coach.
from 6-10 to division champs, drafting the best running back in the league, gaining the best DE, and drafting the scariest playermaker in this years draft; i firmly believe in chilly. Go vikes.
Skol Vikes 4 Life!
A theme with reasons. Let me name a few…
Les Steckel
Jerry Burns
Dennis Green
Mike Tice
Brad Childress*
by Anthony Carter on Apr 29, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I, for one,
liked Bud Grant, Dennis Green, and Mike Tice quite a bit. I even liked Jerry Burns aside from all the gratuitous yelling and the Herschel debacle. So did most fans. Green became unpopular for not having much of a defense and lots of unruly personalities on the roster. Tice became unpopular for hovering at or above .500 for 3 straight years (which included a playoff win at Lambeau) when the expectations were higher than that. Only Seattle could say the same from 2003-2005 in the NFC, though.
Yeah, I liked Tice too. Shame he got canned. But the locker room did seem a bit out of control with him as HC.
You're right
…and I’m trying to think of another HC fired for locker room and off-the-field issues…couldn’t they have simply hired a motivational speaker or something?
I liked Grant, and Green, and of course, Tice. Tice was likeable, that was his schtick. But unfortunately, he was too busy trying to be liked and not maintaining authority and discipline, and we saw the results of the HC being everybody’s buddy.
Burns was Grant’s Chosen Successor, and that didn’t work out well at all…
Steckel was abominable
And now we got this Childress guy, who’s main fault is the uninspiring playcalling, after he got everyone’s hopes up with talk of the KAO…. Jury’s still out.
et tu AC?
um, one of our best seasons was with jerry. 1987. strike year. we were 8-4 (8-7 with the scabs)
We made the playoffs. first game on the road against the 12-3 saints. we got dowen 10 to 0 early until YOu returned a punt for a TD. then hassan jones caught a hail mary at half. we ended up winning 44-10.
we went on to san fransisco. played the world champs. they were 13-2. jerry rice, montana, roger craig, ronnie lott, tom rathman. We beat them with 5 FGs from chuck nelson and your 10 catches for 227 yards! jerry was an awesome coach, people bitched about the playcalling then too, the infamous bob schnelker. draw plays. but come on, we had darrin nelson and alfred anderson in the backfield and wade wilson throwing passes.
we went on to lose on the last play of the championship game. darrin nelson dropped the ball on the 1. sucked
cromscorner.blogspot.com
No.
You meant from 9-7 under Tice to 6-10 under Chilly. Year 2: 8-8, still not back to what he’d inherited. Year 3: had it not been for 2 games vs. the worst team ever (which the Vikings nearly lost, by the way), it still would have been 8-8. Why? Major denial about his ability to coach any old QB into a franchise QB, both of which are false. The closest thing he’s had to that was Brad Johnson who excelled with an injured roster, season full of distractions, a real playbook, and Tice but he performed poorly with Childress’s playbook and coaching.
If you think he was the one that picked AP, JA or PH...
Then you are crazy.
He merely signed off on it, it was Spielman who picked the players.
I liked Denny Green, even if he didn’t win the big one.
I liked Mike Tice, even though he couldn’t control his team.
I called for neither one of their heads.
But I am calling for Brad Childress’ because despite all the talent, we backed into the division championship.
we didn`t back in
we won it buy beating the giants second string. we would of backed in if we lost and chicago lost which they did, so technically we won it outright even though we probobly wouldn`t if they would have played there starters the whole game
creature the williams wall
by williams wall on May 1, 2009 6:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's media driven
I think the local media in the Twin Cities knows that most people like to read dirt and then point fingers. In a way, it makes them feel better about themselves.
I think the Vikes are moving in the right direction and would not change a thing. I like the idea that the running game and a tough defense come first.
Player selection is not the problem.
They have built a good team, and are continuing to build a good team.
All while they continue to coach a “try not to lose” rather than a “try to win” philosophy.
Exactly
With the team that we have, there is no reason we shouldn’t be making a strong push at the SB, rather than wondering whether we will even win our division again. Why are we wondering? Because of Childress and a QB situation that has been a mess for the last three Childress years (and beyond). A mess that should have been addressed more aggressively by now.
Playing down
A lot of the times the Vikings seem to play to the level of the opposition. If the team sucks, the Vikes will take it easy, try to get just enough points to win but not really put the game away. The other team comes back, and the fourth quarter becomes a do-or-die situation when the game should have been in the bag.
That may not be what’s happening, but it sure seems like it, much of the time. I worry twice as much when we’re playing a team like the Lions, than if we were playing the Ravens or Steelers or Cards.
I’ll name a few:
Awful at clock management.
Predictable as a play caller.
Needlessly stubborn and opaque with the press—
leading people to fill in the gap for themselves, that is, to speculate—
which then produces a general restlessness among fans—
which we imagine must also be true for the players.
Generally comes across as difficult and calculating, that is, chilly.
Needlessly complex when speaking—
which leads one to feel “I’m just not getting it”—
which leads one to think “but I should be getting it”—
which leads one to conclude “maybe it’s him that’s not getting it”—
which leads one to wonder whether the players are getting it.
In general, though, I think you’re right. There are reasons to feel optimistic about him…
b.s.
he’s not awful at clock management at all. man, im tired of idiotic perceptions. name one game where we didn’t get a scoring drive at the end of the game when we needed one. i thought so. it never happened. you can complain all you want that the vikes wasted precious time but if we hit the FG it DOESNT MATTEr. it’s a results oriented league.. not a process one.
and he isn’t stubborn with the media at all. look at all his vids. he is totally open nowadays with everyone. so that’s another b.s. point.
cromscorner.blogspot.com
Glad you're happy with last second all or nothing FGs
I am not. I would much rather manage the clock, and try to move down the field to get a touchdown. FGs are and should always remain a last ditch effort, after everything else has been done to get a TD. Childress seems to be content to run out the clock as soon as he gets to the 30 yard line, and try a last second FG. I think the team should move down and try to get a touchdown. If they succeed… then the other team gets put in a do or die situation. If the Vikings don’t get the TD, at least they would be closer for Longwell, who is constantly kicking FGs 45 yards plus to win games.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 30, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
*shakes head
if its 3rd and 8.. on the 32… of course your first look will be to get a first down. but odds are that the defense will force you to “settle” for less yardage. in that case you obviously take it.. and hope to get the first, but if you dont, NOTHING wrong with a FG from 44 instead of 49 yards for example if it gets you the win. a win is a win is a win.
cromscorner.blogspot.com
Good coaches do more with this much talent
1) It’s important to remember that Brad Childress inherited a winning team, for one thing, which begs the question: why fire a coach whose major crime was consistently being at or above .500 for the past 3 years? We didn’t know what we had until it was gone, I guess.
2) Had the previous ownership groups been willing to give other coaches this much talent, especially Dennis Green, the best FA pass-rushing end in the league (and a pro bowl CB and a 2nd pro bowl DT), the Vikings would have at least gone to a Super Bowl.
3) Arrogance. Dennis Green would never call himself a QB guru or offensive genius, but he sort of was! QB carousels killed careers of his contemporaries like Wayne Fontes, while Green could take one rejected retread in decline after another and win without skipping a beat. (Now there are rumors of him bragging about stealing Bill Belichik’s WR! I think it’s just a rumor, but what a dumb and arrogant thing to do on so many levels if it’s true.)
4) Almost an aversion to talented players. Childress seems to prefer the Billy McMullens, Todd Pinkstons, Kelly Holcombs, Sage Rosenfelses, and Gus Frerottes to the Byron Leftwiches, David Carrs, DeSean Jacksons, Hank Basketts, T.O.s, and other quality receivers until he was given Bernard Berrian (like it or not!). I’m optimistic about Sage. I don’t think he’ll be much better than average without much ceiling, but I do have confidence that his floor is not as low as Tarvaris Jackson’s or Gus Frerotte’s.
5) The lame playcalling and playbook and “offensive philosophy” (an insult to the study of real philosophy) has been so predictable and vanilla that the Lions played both of the only games they lost by less than a TD to the Vikings. Even that worst team of all time could predict running on 1st and 2nd downs and what kind of pass was likely to be thrown to whom on 3rd downs. (Also, did you know that the Lions played 1 other game all year which was decided in the 4th quarter? That’s right — the worst team EVER had the lead in the 4th quarter both times vs. the Vikings! The other 13/16 of the time the 4th qtr wasn’t even necessary.) His “Kick-Ass Offense”/KAO has been below average in all major respects for most or all of his tenure here.
6) Poor clock management, as detailed above, although I attribute his decision to punt with no timeouts and a little over 2 minutes left to bad math skills instead: Childress apparently thought 3-and-out = 3×45 = 1:35, which is erroneous. That would take 2:15 plus the punt.
7) Mewelde Moore was awesome and had the ability to do anything asked of a RB/KR/PR. Childress refused to play him other than in garbage time. I don’t know if it’s because MM wasn’t “his guy” or what, but it was a foolish waste of talent. Perhaps the $ paid to Chester Taylor could have filled another need instead.
And
because he and Matt Birk didnt see eye-to-eye, our steadfast Center is gone.
Also, I am optimistic on Sage as well, but fear that Childress will try to micromanage him the way he did with Brad Johnson. Brad wasnt as bad as Childress made him look.
Are you willing to give the same leeway to TJack?
by Anthony Carter on Apr 29, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Why?
Even if it’s Childress’s fault, we know that TJack can’t deal with it very well over a full season, so onto the next guy (just like with Johnson…except he got 2-3 fewer seasons) until something sticks or Childress/Bevell are fired, whichever comes first.
Yes
If Tjax can step in and show that he can run the team through the tough games, overcoming blitzes, managing the clock…in other words, be a leader the way a QB should be, then I will give him leeway. If he shows that he cannot, however, I am done with him. There is only so much of a window to keep trying with a built team like ours. The window begins to close.
all these CHILLY haters are just rubes
dumb ass naive rubes who actually think that CHILDRESS is clueless, who think just a coaching change, or QB or some other magic pill would propel us into the super bowl.
none of these dumbasses address the penalties or fumbles… the drops. they all focus, like fantasy football fanatics, on our offense. they all have some naive and stupid expectation that we could be doing better then we have been… never mind injuries, or special teams.. or the character we showed in all those close games.
these dumbasses don’t hold the players accountable for anything.. they refuse to point fingers at the obvious culprits.. i bet these people had no problem with APs 17 fumbles against the titans. he’s AP. untouchable. let’s blame the coach.
these are just people who can’t accept reality, that can’t accept that we have, until now hopefully, had an extremely avg set of receivers… streaky QBs and such.
these are just rubes who really care more about their own opinion then logic. people who will distort stats and or cite specific examples (though they didn’t affect the game at all) and say that it’s just one of many.. these people are the kind of people that actually think the vikes are cursed.. that sit there during games and wait for us to “find a way to lose” that think that we need some over-hyped media jocked “blue chip” coach to come in here and make us “bona fide” people who get sad when the media doesn’t talk about us. people who got on the vikes band wagon when we went 15-1.
it’s an indictment of their character and understanding of football more then it’s an indictment of chilly’s performance. there is no reasoning with these people, even if we win the super bowl they will say dumb shit like that the players did it “in spite of” childress. these people cant see the forest for the trees.
they just see how we haven’t won a superbowl yet and they cant accept it so they have to point fingers at some one and what more uncreative lazy and popular way to do it then say “fire childress” any logic person, homers iuncluded, could see the list of PROs for childress is 5 times longer then the list of cons. the only con i truly see is that he is boring. (you never hear people complain about dungy or the guy in new england.. two extremely boring personalities. you never hear people bitch about pittsburgs god awful offense.. that they coudlnt even win their division.. that they barely won a bunch of games, because they won the superbowl. the same type of dumbasses that said “fire wisenhunt” as they lost 3 of their last 4 are the ones who sit here today and say “fire childress”
add up your no name new coaches and your “blue chippers” last year and you will see that the no names did better then the blue chippers so stop acting like you know anything about football because the minute you say “childress sucks” you’re telling any non rube that you are impatient, ignorant, and into knee jerk change.
thank god you guys don’t own the team
just my 200000 cents.
cromscorner.blogspot.com
Didn't even read it all of it...
I’m a Childress supporter, but you’re not going to make any valid headway calling the people you’re arguing with “dumbasses.” That’s just childish, man. Come on, you’re better than that.
People are just going to get mad you’re belittling them instead of looking at arguements.
Talking down to people isn’t going to get your anywhere.
Just a heads up.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
+1
I stopped reading once I hit the word “dumbass.”
Anyways, I think the anti-Childressians (stfu it works) are just more outspoken about it than those who approve or are neutral about the coach. So you’re going to see alot more anti-Childress posts than you will pro-Childress posts.
naw.. we already had our discussions.. it's all good
they wont get mad. they know im a shit talker. i say what I think. im not better then what i think =D
i’ve had a tete a tete with bjorno for a while now. we’re basically mortal frenemies haha.
you guys should actually read the rest.. it’s a bastion of common sense. a very minnesotan trait if i may say. maybe it’s a demographic thing. i dont know the avg age in here… but older people tend to be more patient with the team, to appreciate the little things as opposed to living and dying by the final score on sunday
cromscorner.blogspot.com
From one dumbass to another.
We are Viking fans! We cheer hard and we bitch hard! Do we demand perfection? No. But we sure as hell better see some consistency. There were areas of the team last year that downright sucked. The special teams lack of tackling skills, the QB’s love of throwing the 3 yard checkdowns, the right side of the offensive line’s fondness of playing patty cake with the pass rushers, and the receivers’ inability to run a pass route without having the slowest defender draped all over him. But the one thing that killed the team the most was the head coaches’ decision to coach down to the players’ abilities instead of leading them to perform to a greater level. The coach is the leader. If he is not able to bring out the best in the team, then he should go. The playoff loss to the Eagles was a perfect example. He simplified the offense so much in the 2nd half that he gave the game to the Eagles defense. I will continue to cheer for my team the way I have for 40+ years, but I also will sure as hell bitch when I feel it is right. If that makes me a “dumbass”, so be it.
"Skol pa fiskande"
by NobleSavage on Apr 30, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah,well. "speculation"
many many teams have to punt a few times to the eagles… having said that -
asante samuel was playing HURT and our Sid RICE couldnt even get open. prolly why we end up with 3 yard checkdowns
T JACKs pick-6 was his own personal bad play. no one else to blame.
The tackling on Westbrooks long TD play was awful. not the coaches.
THe special teams was atrocious.. they were near the 50 many times. i have no answers there, blame the coach, blame the players.. blame anyone. atrocious.
ALSO look at the fact that only 3 or 4 of our starters on either side of the ball have ever even been to the playoffs! And factor in how many times the Eagles have been? many many. they did go to the title game no? they were better then they’re record obviously and we picked a bad day to bring our “C” game
cromscorner.blogspot.com
There were a few crucial plays that definitely could have turned the tide....
however that still does not excuse the absolute worst coaching I have witnessed in one half in a long time. Jackson’s play calling was simplified to the point that he was only using half of the field. The Eagles knew exactly what our offense was doing and brought the all out blitz every time. It has just been very difficult to get over this. All I need is the new season to start. SKOL!!!
"Skol pa fiskande"
He’s got you here. They did break it down too much in the second half. God knows why, Jackson was doing pretty well in the first half, pick-6 aside. I think the Eagles blizted half the time in the second half. Like literally half the time. They could tell what we were going to do based on the formations.
Exactly Frost
The offensive scheme was simplified so much that they were using only one side of the field every time. It was so simple for the defense to know where the plays were going. I was at the game and I was furious. OK, I’m calm now.
"Skol pa fiskande"
yup, well... you still need better WRs to get open in the 1.7 seconds t jack had to throw it
or you need t jack to run with it..
or you needed our O LINE to play better and not get owned.
just because they think they know, or even if they do know what we’re doing.. it’s not like they always had one or two extra guys there. we can still block.
we got our ass kicked. it’s really that simple. their lines beat up on our lines the whole game.
their defense has shit tons of experince, poise, familiarity with themselves.
RECAP
they were 4th over all in OFFENSE in the NFL. They had the 4th best passing defense in the NFL.
they held the incredibly run-efficient GIANTS and VIKINGS to a combined total of 25 points in two games combined in their playoff wins ..
we also lost sharper and edwards and pat williams for the game.
and and and i just don’t think the “play calling” was the reason they stopped us. they stopped the giants to. they stopped dallas completely on the last game of the season..
dawkins, samuel. come on.. they’re GREAT
remember the bad snap in the 4th that bounced of T JACKs foot? gave them a FG. i mean, tons of crap happend that game
cromscorner.blogspot.com
yup. you can see in all these plays
single coverages. bad throws. nothing t jack could do some times… sucks
we got some breaks too.. the in the grasp that kept philly out of fg range.. the rouging the passer that kept our drive alive. we got beat fair and square.
cromscorner.blogspot.com
man hard to watch but worth it
check out the extensive high lights.. lots of stuff we forget. thos epunt returns were so bad. man oh man
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=54458&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2008&week=POST18
cromscorner.blogspot.com
so it's semantics i guess
we see the same main problems and a different solution. i say “stay the course” haha and even if we have little improvements, less penalties, less drops, no false starts by cook… more pass completions and better special teams. we’re 2 games better in the record. my opinion is that the coaching does a good enough job of preparing them. if you ask the players, they will blame themselves. that’s my barometer. (even if it’S just cliche locker room talk)
cromscorner.blogspot.com
He instills no confidence in me that he can figure out another team’s gameplan, keep them from figuring out his, or dominate any team he faces. He doesn’t appear to even want to do these things.
He underestimates the importance of the quarterback in winning games and championships and overestimates his ability to make a good QB out of a blank slate.
He doesn’t appear capable of changing what doesn’t work for something that may.
He sticks with players who are obviously in over their heads for far too long, which is detrimental to the team’s success and the development of other players.
He’s boring and completely un-quotable. Not that this is such a big deal, but even when Tice was presiding over a pretty lackluster and often embarrassing team under his tenure, he was at least fun to listen to. He just pushes coverage of the Vikings to the back burner, nationally speaking.
But I don’t hate him for any of this. I just think we could do better, that’s all. If your idea of a successful season is somewhere between 7-9 and 10-6 and barely making or missing the playoffs, then he’s your guy. I like to think that winning a Super Bowl should happen sometime soon. When you have Ravens and Cardinals and Buccaneers going to the Super Bowl while we get shut out of the playoffs, it makes football season less fun. We need some kind of payoff after 33 years, don’t we?
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