Remain Calm. . .All Is Well
As you've all heard, read, and/or seen by now, the Chicago Bears traded for quarterback Jay Cutler yesterday, sending away their first-round pick in this year's NFL draft, their first-round pick next season, their third-round pick this season, and their starting quarterback from last year, Kyle Orton. The Bears also received Denver's fifth-round selection this season to go along with Cutler.
And, with that, the melodrama has started. Kevin Seifert has already declared that the NFC North was decided yesterday with the Bears' acquisition of Cutler, and there seem to be lots of folks out there that feel the same way.
Naturally, there are flaws in this line of thinking. Let's go through them, shall we?
The big problem with declaring that this trade is going to make the difference in this division is that it buys into the fallacy that the vaunted Chicago defense is still actually "vaunted." I hate to break the news to everybody, but it's not. And the Bears haven't done anything this off-season thus far to change that.
"But Gonzo," you might say, "if you look at the Bears' defense and the Vikings' defense, there's only about a one point per game difference. How can you say the Bears' defense isn't any good while Minnesota's is?" Quite easily, actually. If you look at last year's scoring stats from NFL.com:
| Rush TD Allowed | Pass TD Allowed | Punt Ret TDs Allowed | Kick Ret TDs Allowed | INT Returns for TD Allowed | Fumble Returns for TD Allowed | TD Allowed on Blocked FGs | TD Allowed on Blocked Punts | |
| Minnesota | 10 | 15 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 |
| Chicago | 16 | 21 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
Bringing Jay Cutler in doesn't make Brian Urlacher any younger. . .it doesn't make Tommie Harris any less injury-prone. . .it doesn't replace Mike Brown's veteran leadership. . .and it certainly doesn't make Charles "Toast" Tillman any smarter. Only two NFL teams were worse against the pass in 2008 than the Chicago Bears. They also put up 21 fewer sacks than the Vikings did.
The Minnesota defense allowed opponents to score 25 TDs in 2008. The "vaunted" Chicago defense allowed 37. And do you really, truly, honestly think that the Vikings are going to be allowing 11 non-defensive touchdowns next season? Hell, if you throw in those 11 non-defensive TDs, the Vikings still allowed fewer touchdowns than Chicago did last season. Also, keep in mind that the Vikings played 3/4 of the season without their starting middle linebacker, E.J. Henderson, played without Madieu Williams for the first six weeks, and had Jared Allen playing with a bad knee and a bum shoulder for the last month.
In his Denver career, Jay Cutler was 13-1 when his team's defense allowed less than 21 points. The Bears allowed more than 21 points 10 times last season and haven't done anything this off-season to help their defense.
(Oh, and for the record. . .Tarvaris Jackson's record as a starter when the Vikings give up 21 points or less? 9-2. It goes to 10-2 if you make it 22 points or less. Thanks to Andy Lowe at TalkVikes for pointing this out.)
The second problem with declaring the Bears as NFC North champions at this point. . .did the Bears acquire Brandon Marshall in this trade as well? How about Eddie Royal? The Bears are one of the few teams in the NFL that are worse off at receiver than Minnesota is. Their most effective pass play is "throw the ball deep to Devin Hester, have him purposely run into the defensive back, and accept the flag for pass interference." Cutler really doesn't do a heck of a lot to change this. Brandon Lloyd isn't Brandon Marshall, and Devin Hester isn't Eddie Royal.
But here's the biggest thing that I believe makes any declaration of Jay Cutler as a difference maker a foolish one. Before he won his first NBA championship with the Los Angeles Lakers, when asked about his post-season difficulties, Shaquille O'Neal declared to the press that had been a winner at every level. . ."except for college and the pros." The same thing can be said of Cutler.
The last time a team quarterbacked by Jay Cutler had a winning season was Cutler's senior year. No, not his senior year at Vanderbilt, where he played his college ball. . .but his senior year at Heritage Hills High School in Lincoln City, Indiana. He wasn't a winner in college. . .and I don't want to hear "it's Vanderbilt," because I'm sure that nobody chose what college to play at for him. . .and he hasn't been a winner in the pros. The Broncos needed one win in the last three weeks of last season to secure the AFC West title and a playoff spot, and the Cutler-led Broncos couldn't get it done. Not only did they not get it done, but they took the field in Week 17 against a hated division rival with that division title and playoff spot on the line, and got thoroughly embarassed by the San Diego Chargers.
If the past few weeks have been any indication, Cutler is a me-first kind of guy. He thinks he's a winner and he thinks he's a difference maker, but reality seems to say otherwise. Do you think a guy like him is going to be happy with his current contract? I don't. And based on the past few weeks, I'd be willing to bet that he's going to be a royal pain in the ass about it, too.
The Minnesota Vikings are still the best team in the NFC North until somebody actually proves otherwise on the field of play. Anybody that tells you otherwise is wrong. And, quite frankly, we're still the best bet to win this division. I'm happy that the Bear fans are excited that Cutler is in town. Bear fans were excited going into Week 17 of the 2008 season, too, when the Vikings had to play the Giants and the Bears "only" had to play the Houston Texans. We all saw how that turned out. . .and I fully expect the 2009 season to turn out the same way.
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Great post Gonzo!
I’ll enjoy watching Jared Allen make Cutler is biatch!
VikeGuru is a doofus!!
My sentiments exactly!
Except you backed up the points in your article with fancy statistics instead of tacky jokes. Maybe one day I’ll try this “research” thing everyone seems to be talking about… :)
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 3, 2009 1:34 PM CDT reply actions
I just hope
We’ve satisfied everyone’s quota for coverage of the Cutler story now. (-:
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Apr 3, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
No kidding!
I didn’t know we were required to be online at all times here…who knew there was a “6 hour rule” with posting breaking stories? :)
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 3, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow talk about propoganda
very classy.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 4, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Doesn't look like propoganda.
Looks like cold hard facts to me. You can’t stand them and want to live in your fantasy world where the Bears are now SB ready, stick to the WCG
What's with all the Bears fans and "classy"?!?
Is that supposed to be the ultimate, end-all blogging insult? Should I feel ashamed of myself? Because I don’t.
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 6, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Uh oh...
Prepare for bombardment from Bears’ fans trolling the DN…
It’s coming, and coming soon.
And for the love of GOD, DO NOT MENTION DIABETES OR WILFORD BRIMLEY!
It’s a very sensitive subject. To Bears’ fans anyway.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
After 3 years and change
I’m used to it. I somehow think we’ll get by.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Apr 3, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Oops.
And for the love of GOD, DO NOT MENTION DIABETES OR WILFORD BRIMLEY!
Sorry, couldn’t help myself in my article. If there’s an easy tasteless joke to be made, I just can’t resist.
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 3, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I loved it.
Wilford Brimley is a great, great man.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
It’s all that South Park and other similar television. It’s poisoned your mind.
In AP I trust
by FarvaForTheVikings on Apr 3, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously
Bear fans trying to give fans from other teams tips about personal conduct is like asking Rosie O’Donnell to give you tips on keeping your weight under control.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Apr 3, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey now. Making fun of someone’s health. Not cool ;)
In AP I trust
by FarvaForTheVikings on Apr 3, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Ocho Cinco
instead of Pepto, he’d send twinkies! :)
VikeGuru is a doofus!!
Jay Cutler
Rest easy Bears fans.
The Pro-Bowl doesn’t select losers. Jay made it in his 3rd year.
4500+ yards and 62.5% completion only is bad when the D is bad.
In spite of a bad D and no running game Cutler used his legs to keep the play alive and he was sacked only 21 times in 665 plays.
Believe me Jay Cutler is a winner and he’s hardnosed, too.
He had no supporting cast at Vanderbilt (think SEC East— FL, GA, UT, SC, KY & VU—strongest div. in college football) but he almost single-handidly took them to a bowl game. He did beat the University of Tennessee on their field in 2005 and he did it with freshman Earl Bennett. He had been trowing to Bennett all day. On the final drive of the game all 105,000+ fans in Neyland Stadium knew who he’d be throwing to. Vandy took the kickoff and Cutler threw 4 straight passes to Earl Bennett, the last one being the winning TD.
With the addition of Cutler, the Bears now have a QB, WR, OT, and LB from Vanderbilt. They are all winners.
Cutler will be the best Bear’s QB in more than 50 years. The Bears have made a brilliant move just like Shannahan did when he stole Cutler at #11 in 2006.
And don’t believe all that media stuff about Cutler whinning. Ain’t so.
VanDSIRROM VanderbiltSportsNews.com
Almost single-handedly took them to a bowl game?
In Cutler’s four years at Vanderbilt, the Commodores were 2-10, 2-10, 2-9, and 5-6.
In 2002, they beat perennial powerhouses Furman (9-3, I-AA team) and Connecticut (6-6).
In 2003, they defeated another perennial powerhouse in Tennessee-Chattanooga (3-9, I-AA team) and a Kentucky team that went 4-8.
In 2004, they beat a 3-8 Mississippi State team, as well as Western Kentucky (6-5, I-AA team).
In 2005, they started out 4-0 after playing Wake Forest (4-7), Arkansas (4-7), Mississippi (4-8), and Richmond (9-4, 1-AA team). They then dropped six consecutive games before winning their season finale against Tennessee (5-6). So, no, Cutler didn’t “almost single-handedly take them to a bowl game.” At no point were they close to being bowl-eligible.
Cutler didn’t beat a single I-A team with a winning record in his entire collegiate career.
Sorry. . .Cutler’s a loser.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Apr 3, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Hardnosed?
Hardly. He’s a sniveling little nancy boy….HA!
They say a picture's worth a thousand words....
Does this look like a hardnosed tough guy to you? Didn’t think so. Kinda looks to be of the same mold as Brady Quinn to me.
http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/7129/jay_cutler.gif
Vandy Candy
Sorry, had to chime in. A Vanderbilt sportswriter? Isnt that kinda’ like a “punk violinist”?
ohhhhhh….the dreaded SEC!!!! The funny part about his comment its that is laced with “homer kool-aide”. If a Georgia, or Florida sportswriter had popped off I’d listen.
Vandy??? go make some make-up for the ladies bro & dont worry about football.
sorry, again… I just could NOT resist.
I apologize in advance...
But I don’t mind poking fun at our own fanbase from time to time…
But check out this link…
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
Nice!
To poke fun at our fanbase, that comic would work for the Vikings by replacing the quarterback with a Lombardi trophy. Self-burn!!
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 3, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Lol
Good stuff.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
That is funny,
and unfortunatly, in the last few years also kinda’ describes the Vikes. Still, we’ll (and be we, I mean Jared Allen) have to plant your new nancy boy in the ground.
Still, I do see the Division shacking out a lot like last year, with the Vikes first, and Da’ Bears second. maybe Detroit and Green bay will switch places for last and third.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Apr 3, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
If Rosencopter is the #1 guy,
I do hope that turnovers alone will help swing the leverage our way considerably. I’m not clammoring for a SB victory, but I think the North is ours to lose now.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
The NFCN is the bears to lose now?
To much cool aide I think.
You up graded your QB. Congrats!
Your WR’s are still pitiful. Your O-Line has a ton of ?’s.
Your bread and butter defense has taken a big step back and nothing has been done to correct it yet. You just gave up a lot of ammo to fix said problems, and yet you are the favorites to win the division despite the Vikings improving?
Sorry not buying it.
VikeGuru is a doofus!!
by Unclebillybonz on Apr 3, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
As I responded in another post:
We upgraded at QB, have young WRs that are steadily improving, used FA to address the OL, hired Marinelli to improve our DLine (which is his bread and butter), and given the responsibility to Lovie to call the defense (which is his bread and butter).
Buying it yet?
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
No I am not.
you say your WR’s are steadily improving? How so?
What, based on last yrs performance hints at that being close to accurate?
Your big OL aquisition is an injury prone player who is at the end of his career. Now Pace, if healthy could be a great pick up but I don’t like the odds of him playing a full season.
Furthermore so many new additions to the OLine. How is that going to affect chemistry? Most poeple will tell you good OLine play is predicated by familiarity with your linemates. Thats something the Bears oline is not going to have. At least not right away.
VikeGuru is a doofus!!
by Unclebillybonz on Apr 3, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
WR improvement has been seen in the offseason.
Where do you get your “odds” on Pace?
Luckily, it is April, and we have 5 months for our OL to gel.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
Just playing Devil's Advocate...
But it takes actual game time to really gel as a unit. Though it was only Division III, I played on the offensive line, and it’s tough to add new people randomly. It takes awhile.
Not to compare myself to professional athletes, oh no, but just from my own crappy experience.
I think with Pace he’s referring to his past few years. He has been hurt a significant time. He could stay healthy all year, he might not. Same with Cutler, or Peterson, or Berrian, or, hell, anyone. It’s a crapshoot. He’s just been injured more recently than at the beginning of his career.
But you are definitely right; five months is a lot of time.
I can’t speak to the wide receiver improvement as I don’t follow the Bears as close. I just think it’s hard to gauge improvement based on training camps and whatnot compared to actual games. You just can’t replicate the experience.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Very true,
but to comment on the WR improvement, Hester and Bennett’s biggest troubles last year were something that can be measured now.
Hester didn’t run good routes, and had trouble with assignments. Thus far, we have seen incredible improvements in those areas. It’s not physical improvement, but mental. And that can be measured outside of game situations.
Same for Bennett. Has the talent, but couldn’t learn the playbook last year. But, he has been learning, and reports are that he’s got it down now.
And you are right, his assessment of Pace is a crap shoot. But, I prefer to looka t last season, instead of reaching back too far in time. And last season, he was a beast.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
Orlando Pace was a beast last season?
Did I read that right????
He didn’t even play a full season last year and hasn’t since the 05 season.
I guess your definition of a beast and mine are slightly different.
VikeGuru is a doofus!!
by Unclebillybonz on Apr 3, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Pace only gave up 2 sacks
in 14 games on a piss-poor team last year. That’s what I am judging him on.
Yes, he has had injuries. But I wouldn’t go as far as saying it was a bad pick up on the Bears part because of that. They gave him full evaluations and physicals. I hope they made an educated move.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
I feel sorry for Pace
He is gonna have to go against one of the best DE’s in the league 2 times a year, and he will get burned. Pace is great against bull rushing DE’s. He is not so good against finesse players, who use their speed to get to the QB. I expect Jared Allen to have 5 sacks against the bears this year.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 3, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
You're both wrong!
It’s actually “jell”, not “gel”. No kidding.
Sorry, I’m a technical writer, and I’m bored on a Friday afternoon :)
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 3, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
What do you technicaly write?
If that’s the proper term. That was a field I tried to get into, but it was a wee bit tough down here in Houston.
I’m a writer as well.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Computer nerd
I was a Computer Science major in college, and I’ve written documentation for various software companies throughout my career. The audience has varied from developers to customers and I’ve worked on a ton of different projects, but basically when people want to know how a program/site/code works, they read the stuff that I wrote.
I like my job a lot, but the final product is very bland by design. This is why I love writing for the DN so much—I can write much more creatively here than at work. I don’t think developers in India appreciate my toilet humor as much as the people on this site. :)
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 3, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I ate lunch today with my die-hard bears fan buddy and he is definitely concerned about the o-line and watching the QB the just hershel walkered for is going to get SMOKED the beginning of the season because the line isn’t up to speed. i guess we’ll see, but i’d be a little concerned too.
Green Bay or the Windy City..... There but for the Grace of God go I.
And how, pray tell, will Marinelli improve the DLine? “Come on guys! Push harder! Listen to me, I coached the only 0 – 16 team! I know what I’m talking about!”
No, sorry, I’m definitely NOT buying that a new DLine coach is going to make your DLine markedly better. And I’d like to point out the Arizona game to you for insight into some of Lovie Smith’s decisions.
And how, pray tell, will Marinelli improve the DLine?
I’m not sure if you are familiar with position coaches in the NFL, but Rod M. is considered by most to be one of the best DL coaches in the game… if not THE best. And coaching under Millen has absolutely nothing to do with his DL coaching abilities.
As far as Lovie’s decisions: he wasn’t calling the defensive plays in Chicago… Bob Babich was. And Babich sucks. The only reason he didn’t get fired is because he is Lovie’s buddy.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
Well good luck with that then, because, honestly, I don’t see how your defense is going to improve just because the DLine has a new coach. I’m pretty sure that even without Karl Dunbar, our DLine would function at just as high a level as it does now.
As for Lovie calling the defensive plays, we’ll have to see how that works out then. Honestly, I’m not going to be impressed with the Chicago defense until they start showing the bite to back up their bark, something they’ve been missing since the SB run.
Very true...
And hopefully Lovie and Rod are able to make that happen. Lovie is out if the defense doesn’t get much better.
Keep in mind that our defense is young. A couple of bozos keep mentioning how old they are getting, but as one of our bloggers said earlier: go check the age of our players on D… you’ll be surprised to see what you find…
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
I really don’t think it’s yours to lose. If Rosencoptor starts, I believe that simply having a QB with such a great nickname will vault the Vikings to the top. Mark it down. It’s happening.
In AP I trust
by FarvaForTheVikings on Apr 3, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Detroit switching places with Green Bay?
What do you know that the rest of us don’t?
Detroit has, ummm, one good player. One.
Another View, I suppose...
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/14355319
Just another take… ;-)
Numbers
When you look at the numbers you can see that Cutler is a gunslinger, he had a better completion percentage, more TDs, more INTs, higher avg, and less sacks than Orton. He also had a much better line, worlds better receivers, and worse td/int ratio than Orton. He is not Manning, or Brady. Qb play wasnt the downfall of the Bears last year. Line play and the fact that anyone could throw for 300 yrds on them were the real issues. While they have made moves to improve their line. Their Defense is exactly the same, trying to live off the name they had 3 years ago.
Jared Allen is to football what Jason Voorhees is to Lake Crystal.
Get "over" it Chicago.
The Bears got an “over” rated, “over” hyped QB.
They "over"paid in draft choices for this said QB.
They signed a HOF OT in Orlando Pace. Unfortunately, he is “over” the hill.
And now the Windy City has "over"blown expectations for the upcoming season.
This lame reply is now “over”. :-)
by Odin on Apr 3, 2009 4:29 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Can't wait til September.
I’m gonna rec and save your comment ;)
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
And, in January
When we have the trolls from WCG over here discussing our playoff game while the Bears are watching said game on television. . .like we had last season. . .we’ll be sure to remind you that we were right. (-:
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Apr 3, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Trolls just for visiting?
I come over, as I have seen other wcg members in the last couple of days, and I haven’t seen any trolling. Just enjoying friendly debate.
And, since you are speaking of last season… we were watching that game on the television… and it was great to watch :)
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
I was mainly talking about
Douchenozzles like ChiFan13 and some others.
I enjoyed watching the Vikings in the playoffs, too. I will enjoy watching them in the playoffs again this coming season.
I also enjoyed watching the Bears pee all over themselves in Week 17 when there was a potential playoff berth on the line.
I also enjoyed watching Jay Cutler pee all over himself in Week 17 when there was a potential playoff berth on the line.
Maybe it IS fate that Cutler and the Broncos have a union. (-:
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Apr 3, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
No problemo...
That’ll give you 9 months to figure out the reply button!
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
Another Outbreak of Clairvoyance Ravages the Cosmos...
…film at eleven. Nostradamus, eat your heart out! I always love how clearly the winners are known even before the NFL draft parties even start. How a great QB just cinches the deal… (Are you listening, Drew Brees? How’s that MVP trophy and Super Bowl ring thing working for you?) How much smarter the unpaid fans are, when compared to those who are working for hard cash following years in the business. (Remind you of anyone you know in your hometown?) Naw, please rant on, by all means. Don’t let me interrupt.
(Da Bears? Please… Who dat?)
Thank god...
The Bears just gave 2 1st’s, a 3rd, and their starting QB for an overweight, alcoholic, temperamental bitch. Enjoy that Bears fans.
When you realize that your shiny, new douchebag will be throwing to starting WR garbage like Rashied Davies and Brandon Lloyd instead of studs like Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal, remember what you gave up.
When you’re pathetic O-Line gets the drunken fatass sacked 50 times (you’ve got god knows who at Guard…the decaying corpses of Orlando Pace, John Tait, and Chris Williams at tackle…and the overrated, awful Olin Kreutz at Center), remember what you gave up.
When the aging Brian Urlacher, Tommie Harris, and Adewale Ogunleye all break down on D this year…and you have no depth to back them up…remember what you gave up.
The Bears are clear favorites in the division this year my ass! You just sealed your mediocrity for the next 5 years. All us Vikings fans appreciate it since we’re coached by an absolute goofball, and we need all the help we can get.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Cutler
Cutler may not be the immediate answer for the Bears, but he would have been for the VIKES. Cutler may or may not be a problem child. He may or may not be winner. But is is far better than what the VIKES and the BEARS had on thier team at QB. 10 teams. 10 teams were interested in this guy because they know that it is not often that a talented QB becomes available. Some teams do not need an upgrade at QB and Brad thinks we are one of them.
There are no such things as "immediate answers" in
the NFL. Football is the ultimate “team” sport. Look at the Redskins. Every year Snyder and Cerrato bring in a huge FA signing and every year the Skins struggle to make the playoffs (and most times miss). The Bears spared them this humiliation again this year by giving up way, way too much for Cutler. Given modern day NFL economics it’s better to draft after the top ten and Denver gets two no. 1s in those slots plus Orton who can probably fit well in McDaniels’s offense. Now if Cutler had been able to take Eddie Royal and Brandon Marshall with him to Chicago, then you might sell me on this deal. Leaving aside Olsen it should be amusing to watch Cutler’s frustration in throwing to the collection of stiffs the Bears call WRs and this includes Hester who still hasn’t a clue as to how to play his position.
by VikingBillArlingtonVA on Apr 4, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
This argument only makes sense...
…Because you’re not factoring in the fact that Cutler’s presence will increase CHI offensive possession time. This helps eliminate much of the extra time their defense spends on the field. Over 16 games, that can help to make up the difference between the CHI stats and MIN stats shown above.
MIN was 9th in ToP in 2008. CHI was 29th. DEN was 24th (probably because their defense gave up 2300 yds rushing, which obviously chews up more time than giving up lots of passing yds).
Also, your argument is thin when it comes to the biggest reason why you think Cutler isn’t a difference maker: intangibles. Instead of intangibles, like his attitude and his unmeasurable affect on the defense, let’s talk about tangibles.
Did he pass for 4500 yds only to Eddie Royal and Brandon Marshall? The truth is that they account for less than half of his total yds and 11 out of his 25 TDs. If you compare Cutler’s stats, minus Royal & Marshall, to the CHI QBs last year he’s only about 750 yds and 6 TDs behind. Cutler also made up 71% of DEN offense while the CHI QBs made up only 65%. If Cutler only accounted for 65% of his offense, the Broncos would have had slightly fewer yards than they gave up. Because of him and his 71%, they were more than +300 yards.
I’m sorry but you sound like Michael Wilbon before the trade: he’s 17-20 as a starter and hasn’t proven anything. The difference is that now that Wilbon’s team has a pro bowler at QB, he has since called him “semi-proven.” Put Tarvaris Jackson on DEN or CHI without Adrian Peterson, the MIN offensive line and the MIN defense, which all relieve pressure on the QB, and you have disasters not seen since the 2004 Tsunami.
At the end of the day, you will not find a single rational person who believes that Jackson is a better QB than Cutler, yet I’m positive you have convinced many level-headed readers of your position that not getting Cutler and also letting Cutler go to the biggest challenger for the division is no big deal. I would say to those people, “Who do you have more confidence in with the ball in his hands behind our O-Line and next to Jim Brown, Jr., Tarvaris Jackson or Jay Cutler?” Let’s hope the Vikes don’t become the 90’s Lions who could never get a proper QB to play with Barry Sanders and thus squandered all his talent on the way to two playoff wins..
Uhhh, nobody’s comparing Cutler to Jackson. It doesn’t make any sense to bring that up. You can ask anyone if they’d rather have Cutler or Jackson, and everybody is going to say Cutler. But just because the Bears have him doesn’t mean they’re going to be successful.
Apparently, Cutler’s problem in Denver was the defense. Blah blah, holding teams under 21 points and he’s 12-1 or some shit like that. Well, Chicago’s defense held opponents under 21 points only 7 games last season. Those games were against such powerhouses as the Rams, the Lions, and Jacksonville. And the defense is the same as it was last season. Read into it what you will.
But...
Like I said, you’re not factoring in that the CHI time of possession was 29th in the NFL. Their rush defense was not nearly as poor as Denver’s, which tells you that the ToP issue was created on offense. With a better QB than before, their ToP will go up and will keep the other teams offense off the field. There’s no better defense then not allowing the other team to have the ball. Imagine what would have happened if MIN didn’t have Adrian Peterson? Our defense (and more importantly our secondary) would be on the field longer, meaning more yards and TDs for the opposing team’s OFF.
I do know.....
That Cutler is much better than Sage. I will enjoy watching Forte having a 150 plus rushing game against "the greatest defense ever " or play the run and we’ll see how good Cutler is.
by Hubstorm22Xxx23 on Apr 6, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
hahahahahahaha
Viking D is not the greatest defense ever. But it was the 6th best overall last year, and 1st against the run for 3 years in a row now. That’s a fact. And the only piece we lost was Sharper, who only had 1 INT last year. Don’t think its gonna be hard for our 2nd round safety to fill in admirably.
So lets see… Forte ran for 56 yards the first time we met last year and 96 yards the second. So if you meant Forte will get 150 yards total against the Vikings this year, then yes, there is a decent chance of that! hahahahaha
And I can’t wait to see how good Cutler is when he’s on his back cause JAllen has been on him all day. And I’m pretty sure I’d take Winfield (Probowler) and Griffin over whoever the Bear’s WRs are.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 6, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
This is all very simple
People, people, please!!! This is all very simple. Everything else on the Bears being the same, you just need to ask yourself one question: Is Jay Cutler a better QB than Kyle Orton? If you say say – which you must – then you know the Bears are a better team than last year. I think Cutler is good enough to give the Bears 2 to 3 more wins this season than last season. I believe that will put us on top of the division or wild-card at minimum.
Missing Information
The Vikings also had their two D Boys get into trouble….only to have the government get involved with the NFL. Thanks a lot guys. Really appreciate it. Anyways, only way Vikings maintain good defense is if those guys maintain their sanity.
Whenever I hear Bears fans talk about "class"
It reminds me to break out the ultimate example of the typical “classy” Bear fan.

So typical. . .so very, very typical.
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by Christopher Gates on Apr 6, 2009 5:31 PM CDT reply actions
That is terrible.
And not because it is a Bears fan. There are always hateful people in every circle…
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Here's the thing that Mr. "haters" forgets
Until his team beats our team on the field, our team is better.
Until his defense stops getting by on reputation. . .like they have for the past two years. . .our defense is better.
The Minnesota Vikings, as it stands right now, are a better football team than the Chicago Bears.
Sorry. . .that’s just how it is. 10-6 and a playoff berth > 9-7 and a whole lot of nothing.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Apr 7, 2009 2:09 PM CDT reply actions
+1
I was hoping the big gun would join in on this conversation:) I was starting to feel like Kind Leonidas out there! hahaha

by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 7, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I keep deleting your posts
Because you’re a moron.
I try to keep the level of stupid around here to a Bear minimum. You’ve clearly surpassed that.
Are you going to add something intelligent, or are you just going to continue to insult the reigning division champs and their fans?
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Apr 7, 2009 6:45 PM CDT reply actions
This whole thread seems to be a "pissing" match...
… Don’t get me wrong, I totally understand how easily it is to be blinded-die-hard fan, but this thread with biased stats and reasons for why one of the top QBs in the league will FAIL in Chicago comes off as pretty bitter.
The Bears, who have been QB deprived for well over 2 decades, finally make a move to grab one of the top QBs in the league and many of you make the Bears seem as if they are in a worse position than when they started? haha?
I write heavily on CBSSprts.com and I have no problem saying “what is” and “what isn’t” good about this team.
The key to building a solid team starts with the QB position. This position touches the football on every play through the course of a game (whether its one team or the other; this remains the same). With that being said, you have to have a player who can effectively lead your team on offense and make necessary adjustments to get your team points on the board.
You follow that up with addressing who will protect that person. In particular, the blind-side of the line (LT position). This position is usually the highest positions after QB, because he is protecting the QB against defenders who are approaching the QB from the blind side.
Follow that by a Defensive End lined up against the weak-side tackle. This is usually your speed/power rusher who is paid to put pressure on the most important position on the field— The QB.
Next, you get your coverage corner. This is the person who is able to limit the amount of plays to the strong side of the field for a defense. Champ Baily has made a living off of this followed Ashmogowah (sp?) in Oakland. These guys cause for offenses to look for other sectors instead of the “whole field.” Limiting what an offense can and can’t do.
Follow that by a playmaker on the offensive end. A WR or RB is key!
This is the line of succession that a team should go by. ANy variance would mess up the stream of play. In this league you HAVE to address the offense first and foremost— especially the QB position. THe rules are setup in favor of the offense and each year they grow more and more in favor of this.
The Bears addressed the first two this offseason. They grabbed a top QB in the league who is only entering his 4th season after what has been determined by many sports analysts one where he single-handedly “will’d” the Broncos to the record they had in 2008 (which could have been MUCH worse if he wasn’t there). Then, grabbed a Tackle (who is on the decline, but was FAR above the skill level of anyone in the game for about a decade) to compliment a first-rounder they picked up last offseason to shore up the pass defense. They have 3 DEs who have not peaked in terms of age and have a lot of potential. But haven’t proven that they are the DE this team needs to depend upon just yet. However, they have brought in a guy with proven experience with lineman to correct some things. They have two corners that have played well in the past, but have dipped off in recent year. Again, they bring in new coaches to work with them. Both individuals have not reached their peak (age-wise) either.
The only remaining question mark is at the receiver position. However, they are not limited. Greg Olsen and Desmond Clark are solid tight ends. Devin Hester had flashes, but needs to show improvement. Earl Bennett set SEC records with Cutler in college and has had one year to digest the playbook and work on technique. They do need to find a 3rd receiver and I think this is the year to do so with the depth in this year’s draft at the receiver position.
In short, to write as if the Bears are in the same boat as last year or even worse is insulting to ANY football (no matter what team you root for) fans intellingence. They have addressed a position that has shown time and time again that is necessary in order to succeed.
by ChicagoMarine on Apr 9, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Besides...
… with the Vikings defense and run game you only bested the Bears by one game. Where are the upgrades for the Vikings, division champs? Aren’t there some serious concerns for the Vikings too? QB? OL? WIlliams suspensions?
Let’s be fair to all circumstances (ALL NFC North teams)…
… or keep making it a “pissing” match and get idiotic responses in return.

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