For those of you who wanted Percy Harvin
by Unclebillybonz on Apr 3, 2009 1:59 PM CDT
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with our 1st pick........................You might want to re-think that.
Per a thread on PFT.com Harvin has reportedly tested positive for pot at the NFL combine.
So if true, would you still want him at #22? I think I'd have to pass. Don't want a player already in the leagues substance abuse program before he plays a single down.
I think I like Nicks better anyway as a prospect. Hopefully one of the stud OT's falls and it's a no brainer any way. Check it out, some other interesting names being mentioned for positive tests for pot and steriods.
Thoughts?
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Still illegal to smoke it in the NFL.
last I checked. Doesn’t speak well for a highly touted draft prospect who KNOWS he’s going to be tested at the combing to still fail the test. I wouldn’t sign this guy to a big contract with millions guaranteed if i couldn’t trust him to stay clean.
VikeGuru is a doofus!!
by Unclebillybonz on Apr 3, 2009 2:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
completely....
If Mr. Harvin cant keep his nose clean before what is arguably one of the bigger days of his life – what is he going to be up to once he gets comfortable? Considering some of our past embarassments (whizanator) we probably dont want to bring in someone already under the leagues radar. Distracting and unneeded.
by MTlongship on Apr 3, 2009 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It simply amazes me...
This is TWO of the top guys in the draft smoking weed before the combines, when they KNOW they are going to be drug tested.
The first splash you want to make in the NFL is NOT getting put into the NFL substance abuse program.
by sabbath999 on Apr 3, 2009 3:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d not draft him regardless. Nicks is the pick if we go WR. He’s gonna have a nice career.
V-I-K-I-N-G-S! Skol Vikings, Let's Go!!
by TheViking83 on Apr 3, 2009 3:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nicks is fat
This guy is slow, he wont be able to create seperation and his workouts have been sporatic. Dont trust him, dont like him.
by Spartan99 on Apr 7, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a link
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
by Dane Noble on Apr 3, 2009 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pass on Harvin..
I’m with TheViking83 on this one…If we draft any Wide Reciever at 22..It should and better be Hakeem Nicks if he’s availible..if we can’t get Nicks..then i would prefer Darius Heywad-Bay over Harvin.
by Tony_O on Apr 3, 2009 5:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding me?
Heywad-Bey over Harvin? Name one thing the guy has done better than Harvin. Bey has no real production, just combine numbers. How did that work out for the Vikings last time? I am not saying that WR should be the 1st pick, or that Harvin is better than Nicks or vis versa, but Bey is not better than either of them. He can run fast, great. When I put the track team together he will be the first I call. But I would call Harvin and Nicks long before I call Bey when I am looking for football players.
by vikingfuture8816 on Apr 3, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calvin Johnson
…also rocketed up the draft board based on his combine performance, and that hasn’t turned out too badly.
NFL Draft Scout included this in his profile: he made a huge impact in 2006, starting 10 of 13 games on the way to earning Freshman All-American honors. He led the team with 45 receptions and set the school freshman single-season record with 694 yards receiving (15.4 avg), scoring five times.
Despite constant double coverage, Heyward-Bey again led the team with 51 receptions for 786 yards (15.4 avg) and three touchdowns as a sophomore.
I like that bit about defeating double-coverage.
Later in their profile of him, he is praised for having excellent hands, but then goes on to say that he is not a very good receiver over the middle or underneath in traffic (he only caught 40% of targets underneath).
I’m surprised that the Vikings may have invited him for a workout at all, given their marriage to the smother-the-offense-in-the-first-5-yards-or-less scheme…unless they are willing to draft D H-B as a true deep threat and actually go deep a few times each game.
The book wasn’t all good on Harvin before this bit of news, either. Both were dual threats in college, but D H-B is clearly more of a receiver while Harvin may be a ’tweener.
I doubt that Harvin is the next Randy Moss, and it would take that much production to nullify concerns over something so blatantly stupid and disrespectful to the league rules. There are millions of dollars on the line for these collegians, and they all know that. If Harvin thinks he’s so much better than every other NFL prospect, he’s fooling himself. See also: Onterrio Smith.
by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calvin Johnson had huge production in college to go with his combine numbers. Bey and Johnson don’t even compare.
So you found a scouting site that likes Bey. Big deal, I can find just as many that don’t including this excerpt from Draft Countdown under weakness : Is inconsistent catching the ball and does not have great natural hands…Questionable instincts and awareness…Still very raw as a route runner…Not much wiggle and won’t make people miss…Doesn’t break a lot of tackles…Average strength…Marginal blocker…Has little or no special teams experience…Wasn’t real productive..Workout Warrior?
But that is just from a guy plugged into the scouting community and who reports from the combine and pro days. Lets check some other facts. Like how Bey had 138 receptions and 2089 yards in his 3 playing years soley at WR. Harvin played for 3 years and had 133 receptions and 1929 yards while sharing time at RB. That is only 5 repection/160 yard difference. And Bey only played 2 more games that Harvin even with Harvin’s injury history. So Harvin, in less games, managed to put up the same kind of number receiving as Bey while pulling the double duty of running the ball out of the backfield and was considered one of the top players in college every year he played.
The Vikings throw that ball deep to Berrian plenty (he lead the NFL in yards/catch) so don’t start down that road of “the Vikings don’t throw deep” or “Vikings have no creativity on offense” because these kind of statements, while popular to say, you can’t actually back up when you look at the numbers. Could the Vikings be better at these things? Yes, but to say they don’t do either is ridiculous.
I am not saying that that Harvin is the next Moss, but the rumors of any player getting caught testing for anything, are just rumors. No one but the NFL doctors know anything right now and there would be a huge legal mess if that info was leaked before the week before the draft which is when they notify teams of the testing. Further more, the teams are going to know well before any “inside sources” leak the info to the media and the teams will due their due diligence to find if it is one time kind of thing or if there is a history there. The Vikings still have Harvin coming in and I am sure they will ask him about it. There have been plenty of players who tested positive for something and went high in the draft and had/are having productive careers. I don’t think a player would have to be Moss-like just to justify taking them after testing positive for something.
by vikingfuture8816 on Apr 4, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More on -Bey and BB
I didn’t think that NFL Draft Scout particularly liked DHB based on the full report, but the bit about his hands did sound like he wouldn’t necessarily be the next Troy Williamson.
I agree with you that DHB appeared to be less productive in college by the numbers, but that is the problem with football stats as we know them today. Peter Warrick was a very productive college receiver and a higher ranked NFL prospect on draft day, and a colossal bust, too. It is funny that you quoted DHB’s stats (which had a higher yards/reception average) and later used yards/reception to say how good BB is (more on that later). What I’ve found on DHB also says that he was a dual threat and not always a WR:
2008 Game Analysis:
DELAWARE: Maryland’s dual-threat wide receiver, Darrius Heyward-Bey, provided offensive firepower both on the ground and through the air, gaining 70 yards on four receptions and adding 20 yards and a touchdown on two carries …
…just as an example. I’m not sure that the dual threat is a great feature at this point in a WR prospect’s career. Doesn’t it also suggest that Harvin has taken more hits, too?
I won’t deny that Harvin is hands-down the better college player, but that is kind of irrelevant now. See also: Peter Warrick, Desmond Howard, Troy Williamson, etc.
Bernard Berrian had a high Y/R because of a 99-yard TD which didn’t travel very far in the air. Yes, I believe he could be more of a deep threat than he was last year, but the Vikes simply did not throw downfield very often. Under Green and Tice, the Vikings were throwing 40+ yard attempts about 4x per game!
The Vikings throw that ball deep to Berrian plenty (he lead the NFL in yards/catch) so don’t start down that road of "the Vikings don’t throw deep" or "Vikings have no creativity on offense" because these kind of statements, while popular to say, you can’t actually back up when you look at the numbers.
Are you sure we’re looking at the same numbers?
According to nfl.com, the Vikings tied for 17th (or 19th, depending on how one cares to view it, but slightly below average either way) in pass plays of 20+ yards with the Ravens and Jets. Yes, BB and Wade broke a handful of those for 40+ yards, but as a simple matter of fact, the Vikings attempted a pass play of 20+ yards less often than half of the league.
According to this study from Advanced Football Statistics, TJ and Gus each ranked below average in Air Yards per Attempt (after leaving out one of the Houston starters, Gus and/or TJ rank 19th or 20th). Tarvaris ranked 23rd in AY/A in 2007, and only 3 NFL QBs had fewer AY/A than Brad Johnson did in 2006. Obviously, there is a small trend toward mediocrity in this area, but much more change is needed before Vikings fans have a legitimate reason to stop thinking of the Chilly/Bevell as something other than vanilla, uncreative, low risk/medium reward, bland, predictable, and so on.
Wasn’t Charles Rodgers also in trouble with the league over substances? There are plenty of risks without dealing with substance-related issues, but they also serve as IQ tests. No way this is the last time that any given player will use/abuse banned prohibited substances. Have you ever known a substance user/abuser? They become users/abusers of people, too. See also: Matt Jones (and I’ve only been quoting the WRs that come to mind).
by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as DHB hands go, most places I read say he has inconsistent hands at best. Mayock said the other day on Path to the Draft that DHB lets a lot of passes that get into his chest and misses some “very catchable passes”. That screams Troy Williamson to me.
I think I might not have explained the stats very well. Yes DHB has 5 more catches and 160 more yards as a WR than Harvin, but how is that a big deal? Yes is yard/recpetion is higher than Harvin’s, but by .6 yards/catch. That means for about every catch they made DHB had an extra step if that.
That made their receiving stats negligible in my book, so lets talk about them as dual threats. In DHB career as a “dual threat” he carried the ball 25 times for 314 yards (12.5 yards/rush) and 2 TDs (1 TD/12.5 touches). In Harvin’s career, 194 rushes, 1851 yards (9.5 yards/rush) and 19 TDs(1 TD/10.2 touches).
So to combine the rushing and receiving stats you get:
DHB – 163 touches, 2403 yards and 15 TDs (14.7 yards/touch, 1 TD/10.9 touches with 80% of touches being receptions/20% rushes)
Harvin – 327 touches, 3780 yards and 32 TDs (11.5 yards/touch, 1 TD/10.2 touches with 40% receptions/60% rushes)
Considering Harvin put up similar receiving numbers and much, much big numbers in the ground game, he would be the better choice when it comes to dual threats. And being a dual threat is a great feature at this point because being versatile is a huge asset in the NFL and IMO particularly for the Vikings. Having a guy on the field that draws attention away from Peterson (and could in fact spell him and Taylor or play at the same time) is a great thing. I am sure that both DHB and Harvin could do a good job KR/PR so no point in arguing that.
Yeah Berrian had 99 yard catch, but he also had 47 other receptions and when you take out the 99 yarder, he still averaged 18.4 yards/catch which would be 2nd best in the league behind Vincent Jackson’s 18.6 (this is with at least 40 catches this past season) Berrian is a deep threat and one of the best in the league.
You do realize that Denny Green and Mike Tice aren’t the coaches anymore? And that the people they had running the offenses aren’t coaching there any more either right? Who cares how much more often the Vikings used to throw it down field. They aren’t the same offense and no matter how much people wish it so, its not going to be that anytime soon either. Who cares about how far the ball travels in the air before it gets to the reciever? If the play calling is working, the receivers catching the ball in open space, I don’t care if the ball traveled 3 feet before the receiver caught it and ran it 30 yards. It is a 30 yard completion, it was a team collaboration and the distance it travels in the air has no actual impact over whether it was good or bad.
I am not saying don’t expect better out of the offense, but they run screens and reverses to break up the run and pass, but frankly they don’t work that often and the offense doesn’t need them to succeed in order to be successful. Do I wish it could be better? Yes, I do and I think that a guy like Harvin helps in that respect better than a guy like DHB.
Every position has multiple guys that have tested positive for something so just naming guys at the same position doesn’t really prove anything. I don’t need to know any users/abusers to know what it does to them and the people around them, but one rumor of a failed drug test does not a user/abuser create. If that’s the case, lets get rid of that Jared Allen guy really quick, I heard he had a few DUI’s and toss the Williams Wall in there too. They failed a piss test too and that one was for performance enhancers.
by vikingfuture8816 on Apr 4, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DHB vs. Harvin:
According to NFLdraftscout.com, here are DHB’s and Harvin’s hands/ball concentration/ball adjustment grades:
DHB: 7.4/5.6/6.3
Harvin: 8.2/6.5/7.4
Run after the catch:
DHB 8.2
Harvin 8.0
Overall grade:
DHB 6.71
Harvin 7.44
I don’t know why the Vikings were rumoured to have invited DHB to their facilities first, but maybe DHB is perceived as “a better fit for the YAC system”. I’m not sure that either of these will be great NFL receivers, and you’re right to say that ANY 1st round bust with the dropsies will automatically be considered the next Troy Williamson, especially in Minnesota. As long as DHB is any better than that, then his skills could be useful to the right NFL team, but the Vikings don’t throw downfield often enough to warrant drafting him in my opinion.
The best way to draw attention away from AP is to have 2 starting WRs which scare defenses, not by putting 2 RB in the backfield. 2 good to great WRs will torch 8 in a box for a TD; 2 RB will only give them more reason to put 8-10 in the box.
I want a CB more than a WR, for the record, unless Maclin falls. The kind of WR I want doesn’t seem to be available (DHB with hands at least as good as Robiskie’s).
I already explained how the 99-yd TD and 6 other catches of 40+ yards inflated BB’s Y/REC by about 5.0 in the Kluwe thread. +/- 5.0 Y/REC on 85% of plays is a HUGE difference. Sure, BB is a deep threat, but he isn’t used that way. Just imagine if 1/3 of the balls thrown his way traveled 20-40 yards in the air? He would still have the opportunity to break a few of the boring comebacks and 2-yard slants for big gains again, too, and the D would be on their heels the entire game as they called a short-pass D and got burned and stayed back to defend the deep pass and allowed a 1st down underneath, and so on. A reverse works much better when the opponent is expecting a deep pass rather than playing a 5-yard zone against the run. My point is that whether it’s BB or DHB or whomever, it’s up to the coaches to use the receivers’ skills and adjust some of the playbook to them rather than 100% the other way around.
one rumor of a failed drug test does not a user/abuser create. If that’s the case, lets get rid of that Jared Allen guy really quick, I heard he had a few DUI’s and toss the Williams Wall in there too.
Obviously, all substance abuse judgments/decisions are contingent on whether the player actually did it. I shouldn’t need to say that. 1 failed test (allegedly for pot in this case) during the draft activities and media coverage is a sign of extreme stupidity. How is any such player going to be motivated by millions of future dollars to show up and do a good job while staying out of trouble if he’s already blowing off millions now? Finding financially motivated players might be half of the real draft game because that’s all the Vikings have to offer or to take away for disciplinary measures.
Jared Allen has an extremely detailed contract which includes something like a one-and-done clause. The Chiefs definitely thought that he wasn’t worth keeping around, and for Carl Peterson to have traded away what was possibly the best draft selection of his career (and wow was Peterson ever drilled for his poor late-round drafting in KC!), that only underscores how JA’s time in KC was over.
The Williamses really don’t belong in this discussion since it was a water pill. The league will hear them out and deal with them in a different manner than had they tested positive for smack. It’s still not a great sign, and it’s also possible that they may have been masking the use of other PEDs, but that kind of substance usage is on a different scale, though still potentially very damaging to the team while such players serve suspensions. With so many injuries and unpredictable normal things that could go wrong, why add any more substance-related probabilities of losses than absolutely necessary?
by KC Viking on Apr 5, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DHB
If they draft Hayward-Bey, they may as well completely scrap any idea that they’re a West Coast Offense (at least in terms of how the basic principles of the “WCO” are traditionally perceived: I know there are a lot of variations out there, although I’m not sure there’s one quite like Childress’s peculiar variation: power running/short passing. Seems a bit half-baked), and move to more of a Coryell scheme (power running and vertical passing; think Marty Shottenheimer/Norv Turner).
I think when you look at their personnel, they’re closer to that, anyway. (Notable exception being the QB, of course, but they might not have that on their roster for their current scheme, anyway. And even if they do in Rosenfels, again, the power running/short passing scheme seems a bit counterintuitive.)
by jianfu on Apr 5, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohio offense
DHB’s YAC ability could fit into Chilly’s brand of “WCO”.
You’re absolutely right to say that the WCO Ohio Offense (the ESPN story on this years ago was better and had a flowchart) has many variations. That term has been so overused for so long that almost nobody is directly referring to the Walsh Bengals or Niners or “Air Coryell” offenses anymore, but to derivatives of derivatives.
Personally, I’ve always been a fan of the Joe Gibbs system.
by KC Viking on Apr 5, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I dug Joe Gibbs, too. Gibbs worked a lot with Coryell, and again, I believe—personnel-wise; excluding QB—that the Vikings are better equipped to run something along those lines.
(Incidentally, I think Mark Sanchez could have a shot at being a real good QB in a Joe Gibbs type system. He’s not a pop gun like Booty; he really thrives on hitting receivers off of cuts/timing downfield.)
I just did a quick search of coaches from the Coryell/Gibbs “coaching tree,” and I didn’t have much luck finding younger guys. A lot of guys like Al Saunders and Ernie Zampese. Mike Martz might be one of the younger ones, and he’s 57 or 58 (and doesn’t strike me as the easiest guy to work with).
by jianfu on Apr 5, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No WR at #1
Personally, there’s no WR available at that spot that’s worth the risk. WR is an even bigger crapshoot than RB at the top of the draft. Unless Maclin took a long drop all the way down to us, I’d rather solidify the lines – RT/depth on OL is needed after Birk’s departure, and even if the Williamses are off the hook and don’t need to serve their suspensions, another DT to rotate in and out would keep both of them in better shape throughout the 16 game grind. Obviously, that’s even more imperative if they ARE forced out for four games.
Unless, of course, they allow us to draft coaches……..
by Soy on Apr 3, 2009 6:31 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Finally a smart idea leaks through. I hope the personnel people are thinking along these lines.
by mjschaefer on Apr 3, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn’t agree more. Lines first – WR later. Not that we don’t need the help for Berrian, but a sure thing 1st round receiver doesn’t exist (Crabtree is the exception, but not an option)
by Knut on Apr 3, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember Moss?
He was a player that had baggage and fell to us in the draft because nobody else wanted to touch him. He made all those other teams pay for it too (especially Dallas). How many people regretted that the Vikes signed him? Wish he was still here. Give Harvin the benefit of the doubt.
by purplegrey on Apr 3, 2009 10:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You beet me to it.
although I don’t see harvin as having the same type of impact that Moss had, the point is still valid.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Apr 4, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harvin is not Randy Moss
Moss was widely considered one of the best prospects of that draft aside from character issues. Harvin isn’t even the consensus #1 at WR this year.
Of all the players with pot issues that I can recall, Randy Moss is the only one whose production made up for it:
William Green
Onterrio Smith
Bam Morris
(allegedly) Michael Vick
(and I know I’m forgetting a fairly obvious WR)
…
It just reeks of irresponsible arrogance and disregard for authority. If the millions of dollars on the line aren’t enough to motivate Harvin or any other fool like him, then how hard will they work for the team later on? Pass.
by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t get all high and mighty because he didn’t allegedly pass a drug test. If he didn’t pass, it is stupid, but no reason to condemn the kid for it. The Vikings will sit him down when he comes in for evaluations and ask him about it and if it is a real problem I am sure they will pass (not that they weren’t passing already). I would be more concerned with guys who have a history of violence, getting in fights, hitting women, or getting arrested on an alcohol related charge then if a guy didn’t pass one drug test. Would you get this mad if you found out that a certain prospect had been drinking alcohol since he was in high school? That’s highly illegal, dangerous, and stupid, but my guess is it wouldn’t affect their draft status in your mind (or anyones really), but a internet rumor (even if it is true) about a drug test (not even a performance enhancing drug, but a recreational one) sends this kid flying off the draft board?
by vikingfuture8816 on Apr 4, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he did it, of course
I’m not getting high and mighty, although the published rumor here has it that he gets mighty high. I’m not mad at him, but every draftee has a certain amount of risk and potential reward attached, and this sort of issue increases the risk and sometimes even lowers the reward.
I don’t think anyone can just ask a drug user about it and expect an honest answer when there are millions of dollars in incentives for the alleged drug user to lie.
Yes, I am equally concerned about violence and other off-the-field concerns, and I’m also down on Mark Sanchez because of a sexual assault which wasn’t prosecuted. I would consider drafting players with issues only with a very detailed and incentive-laden contract and a Moss level of talent in the first round or with a very detailed and incentive-laden contract in the later rounds. I would not throw them off the board, but I would knock them down many slots to where they would be great bargains only.
by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen, Fantanstic post
+1
Talent per draft value just gets good on a Harvin now. How far does he drop?
I’d love to find him in the second somewhere.
by Forty-Four on Apr 4, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No idea
…how far he falls, or if he’ll be avaliable at #22.
Sometimes college talent doesn’t = pro talent anyway, so it’s hard to gauge what NFL teams really think of him vs. what we hear through journalists and scout.com type sources. Is any team really thinking, “we’re one WR/RB ’tweener guy away from winning the Super Bowl”? I doubt it, but who knows? I’m fairly certain that he’ll be an exciting, useful, and crowd-pleasing player, even if he doesn’t become a starter. Is some team looking for that to sell tickets?
by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Can See...
your reasons for not wanting Harvin because he is a risk but I’ll throw something else to think about out there…There was a famous athlete once who had a penchant for the ladies and partying into the wee hours of the morning knowing full well his team was depending on him to be there the next day for the game. He didn’t worry about it too much because he always showed up and more often than not was the reason for his team’s success. The things that he did were considered shocking and not only immoral for the times but in many cases were illegal yet he is still one of the most famous and beloved sports figures of all time. He was George Herman (Babe) Ruth…Now I’m not trying to compare Percy Harvin to Babe Ruth but I am saying that many of the things that the Babe did during the “Roaring Twenties” make what Harvin has done seem awfully pale by comparison. All I’m asking is to give him the benefit of the doubt.
by purplegrey on Apr 4, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your point is well taken
It does beg the question, though: what if Babe Ruth had gotten some sleep, stayed in better shape, and ate something other than beer and steak? (It’s certainly a question that no Barry Bonds fan cares to think about for long.)
And another: if today’s standards for law enforcement and media coverage existed in the 20’s, would Babe have been allowed to accomplish all that he did? My best guess says that Babe would have been in jail for some or all of his prime years.
I really don’t care what the players do in their free time, but in this instance and others like it, this sort of behavior only conveys negative things:
- The player can’t really stop whenever he wants to stop.
- The player has no regard for rules of any sort, even when $Million$ are involved.
- The player is just plain STUPID.
- Any player this stupid is likely to get involved with other negative situations, even if by accident.
by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny You Should Mention That....
I’ve argued many a time and will continue to do so that “The Babe” was the greatest baeball player ever and that if he had taken care of himself would still own most of the records in the sport today. That being said, I’m not defending Harvin for his supposed actions. He’s a kid that obviously needs to mature. If his draft stock falls because of this, so be it. If the Vikings decide to pull the trigger on someone else at #22, then so be that. What I’m saying is the guy has a high level of talent and is still available further on, the Vikings should not dismiss him because of this.
by purplegrey on Apr 5, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, If they lie, they are fucked. There was a kid last year who lied at the combine about some of the things he got in trouble for and I believe he was punished greatly for it on draft day. Employers just need to know they can trust who. I had a buddy that applied for (and eventually got) a job at Boeing which at the time was a huge business in the old stomping grounds, a Fortune 500 company. Anyways, they have several levels to the interview process and one of them is a questionnaire where they as about your personal history including drug use. He put that he had smoked pot in college, but no longer did. After wards the company tested hair samples which can check back almost a decade to test if you have used drugs. My friend was honest and his hair proved it and he moved on. Several guys lied and it came back on their lab test that they had lied and were turned away. I guess what I am saying is that if they are honest and can prove it, most people aren’t going to care unless it is a real use/abuse problem.
I agree that you have to dock them for acting stupidly. Definitely not a problem there, I just see Harvin as a top 15 talent and someone the Vikings wouldn’t really get, but if he was there would be a strong candidate for BPA. I think if anything, this puts him in great value at #22, but I would still hope for one of the top 4 OTs, Maclin, and maybe Alphonso Smith who would also be great there.
by vikingfuture8816 on Apr 4, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was also the clear cut best Wide Receiver in that draft. He was a super freak athlete. Harvin runs fast and was the product of a college system that churns out uninspiring pro prospects at WR.
There is no comparison between Moss and Harvin.
I will add I don’t think pot charges are the reason to avoid a player though.
by mjschaefer on Apr 4, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do remember
that Randy Moss had Cris Carter as a mentor, who took him to his home during the offseason to work with him. Bernard is good, but he is no Cris Carter.
by Lofoten on Apr 4, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skill Players at 22
A fat guy (OT)is the need that can be met. Wide receiver can also, however, the quarterback to get them the ball is missing. Chilli’s ego won’t let that change that either. Turn hand it off, roll out to the right, use half the field, is the current quarterback skill base. No need for a burner from Florida, burner, get it?
by Fire Watcher on Apr 4, 2009 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
I look at it this way: if the skill player available is not an all-out bust (at least 30 catches for 300+ yds as a rookie starter), the next coach will be able to get some use out of him.
I’m not positive that Chilly is ready to give up on pet project Ryan Cook anyway.
by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He benched him at the end of the year in favor of Hicks. I would bet that if the right OT talent is there, they don’t hesitate to pull the trigger because they happen to like Cook. They traded to get Taylor and after he actually preformed well as a starter, they drafted Peterson because of the value they got. Don’t see how it would be any different than Cook who hasn’t played to nearly the level of Taylor.
by vikingfuture8816 on Apr 4, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Robiskie
I won’t be shocked at all if Brian Robiskie shoots up the Vikings’ draft board. They may not take him with pick #22, but if the Vikings draft some position other than WR there, I won’t be surprised to see them trade up to get Robiskie in the 2nd round.
Then again, he’s a coach’s son, so no genius points for Chilly/Bevell…hard to say. But some teams’ interest has sent his stock rising, and everything in his scouting report sounds like it would match the Vikings’ offensive philosophy.
by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 3:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
…maybe the fist time, lol
Moving up to get robiskie by pitching in a 5th rounder would be a genius move.
Hell, maybe they could even pick up a 3rd and a 4th to move from 22 to 45 or so. I’d take 2 seconds and two 3rds and get our 4th back for our first. Especially in this draft. I think is a great draft for 2nd and 3rd round talent.
by Forty-Four on Apr 4, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My 2 cents on Harvin and the rest who supposedly failed tests
I seriously question them and their work ethics. Everybody and their dogs know that pot stays in the system for a month tops. These kids are super athletes, with very little body fat on them, so the pot would probably be out of their system in 2 weeks or less. If you knew you had a drug test coming up, one that could guarantee you millions of dollars a year, would you smoke pot? I wouldn’t. They made a horrible mistake. Now if they happened to get caught in the off season, I wouldn’t look as down apon that, because it is the off season. As long as they were clean during the season, I don’t care what they do in their free time. But they knew they had to pee in a little cup, and they chose to smoke anyways. That is just stupid. They deserve to be scrutinized and dropped down many boards.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 4, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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