Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Miikka Kiprusoff Wins 300th Game, Buffalo Crushes Boston

Draft Day Dilemma

Now that the whole Jay Cutler debauchle is over we as vikings fans can focus on whats to come and as i dont see the vikings making anymore possible free agent moves untlil after the draft, the draft will be the next major event for our beloved purple and gold.

Star-divide

 The vikings currently hold the 22 overall pick in this years draft and as ive read around a lot of people seem to think we are going to draft a wr at that spot.  I dont think this is a wise move for our management as wr especially late 1st rounders are usually a crapshoot when it comes to drafting. I see some possibilities that could be more beneficial to this team in the the long run.

1 Trade down in the draft- we could trade down in the draft and possibly pick up a later first round or early second round pick along with another pick or two.  This would lessen the amount of capspace used on a high pick and if we got an early second pick our the type of talent in the pool is still very similar to the type talent in the pool late in the first round.

2 Trade the pick for a proven veteran- i.e. Anquan Boldin if the cardinals are willing to part ways for a first and third( next season).

3. Trade up in the draft- in mayocks most  recent draft he has Micheal Crabtree falling out of the top ten and if he gets past the niners at ten he could potentially fall all the way to the jets at 17( and i dont see the jets landing him with qb issues to address)  and then the only other two receiver needy teams ahead of us are the bucs at 19 and the eagles at 21 i believe we have enough ammunition to jump in front of those two teams and steal the best player in the this years draft.

 

 of those three possibilities i favor the third one the most as it would give us a immediate playmaker on offense and i dont see the cardinals trading boldin, and trading down would be fine if we cant get a player like crabtree.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

Comment 29 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I like ANY of those moves...

Except packing picks to move up in the draft. lol

Your favorite would be my least favorite. …and actually, it almost appears as if many people think WR is our biggest “hole”. I just think it’s funny…

We HAVE to address the OL, after that we would do just as well getting the next great CB as getting the next great WR. I’d still argue FB is a much bigger need that WR. I’d also agrue that if the offensive coached were doing there job well, nobody would be worried about WR at all.

The move I like the best is to trade down in the first, adding pick(s), getting a RT who will play WELL for a decade, and start filling depth and for the future with WRs, DBs, DL, FB, TE etc.

Fixing the OL is the only MUST we had entering the offseason, and it is still the only MUST there is. That alone should give our coaches all the tools they need to have a solid contributing passing game, and that is all they are looking for…

by Forty-Four on Apr 4, 2009 11:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed...

The question is: who might the Vikings consider for OL? They presumably like to use zone blocking schemes, which traditionally requires linemen with plus athleticism/lateral movement. So maybe you’d think a guy like Eben Britton—who’s considered limited in his lateral movement and ability to work in space—might not be a good fit. OTOH, they’ve gone out of their way to put a lot of size up front since Childress took over. That still works if the big guy is agile, as Birk, Hutchinson, and McKinney all are to different degrees. But on the right side, with Cook in particular, not so much. It’s funny that for how tight a ship they run on the defensive side of the ball in terms of getting personnel to fit their system (the side which Childress is least involved in, FWIW) , offensively they seem to do a lot of square-pegs-round-holes. But maybe that’s a discussion for another day.

Anyway, I agree OT is hands down their biggest need. If their coaching/scheme were tight enough, you’d think they could find diamonds in the rough for the OL later in the draft. The Broncos have excelled at this over the years. But the Vikings aren’t the Broncos in this regard. Still, you don’t necessarily NEED to spring for non-elite linemen in the first if you do your homework. So while I think they’ll consider Eben Britton if he’s there (they did invite him to Winter Park, after all), considering his lack of lateral movement and short arms likely make him a RT for life who may or may not be able to operate in a zone blocking system, he might not be their guy. Maybe we’ll see. Same things goes for Phil Loadholt in round 2. I COULD see them make a move on a more athletic guy like South Carolina’s Jamon Meredith, but he’s one of those guys who are a reach at #22 but might not be there at their 2nd round pick. At this point I’d like to see a draft with Alphonso Smith at #22 and Meredith at #54. But yeah, considering they could maybe move down a little bit and still land something like that, I think they should look into it should the opportunity arise.

by jianfu on Apr 4, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

BTW...

Here’s a sleeper OT prospect: Tulane’s Troy Kropoq. He’s considered athletic but raw, and is projected as a 3rd Rounder. So why might the Vikings consider him? He comes from a zone blocking scheme in college, and the Vikings’ new asst coach Dennis Polian (son of the best exec in the NFL, Bill Polian) was the director of football operations at Tulane during the beginning of Kropoq’s career. Hmmm…

by jianfu on Apr 4, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point on Troy

I was researching 2nd teir OT’s and he looked interesting. Fenuki Tupou from Oregon might be another.

by CitrusFLViking on Apr 5, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like Fenuki

But maybe that’s cause I’m biased being a ducks fan and all. lol

by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 6, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've thought CB was #1

…especially since there appear to be several worthy players who may fall to #22.

I surveyed the 58 defensive backs chosen with picks #22-32 since 1980 and found about a 33% bust rate.

OTs aren’t the sure thing some expect them to be, either. I looked up the 25 OTs drafted with picks #22-32 since 1980 and found 10 bust and 2 half busts, for about a 44% bust rate.

WRs selected with picks #22-32 since 1980 weren’t much worse with a 48% bust rate.

There will be busts regardless of the position, so the most important thing is the quality of the player available. Here’s a real dilemma: What if a RB is the best player—by far—when pick #22 rolls around? I’d say shop Taylor for a high #2 and go for it.

by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd love to see the raw data...

on those bust numbers…

I wonder what constitutes a “bust”?…

Anyway, I think it would be tough to draft a RB, I don’t see Taylor bringing a 2 though, either.

That could have been something to consider with a Harvin.

The real question with a Harvin is how far does he fall? …and how far does a pee test affect the Vikings value in him?

Could the Vikes drop into the second round and pick up a 3rd and a 4th? We end up with 2-2s, 2’3s, a fourth (replacing the sage trade).

Lots of talent in rounds two and three in this draft. After the top 10-15, the talent quality runs about 60-80 players deep.

by Forty-Four on Apr 4, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Busts

I used pro-football-reference.com for the complete list of WRs since 1980 and sorted by the overall pick #. Then I copied and pasted into an Excel spreadsheet to add and average bust points.

5+ years as a starter = not a bust (0).
3-4 years as a starter = 1/2 bust (0.5).
0-2 years as a starter = bust (1).

I added up the bust points and divided by the # of players at the position. I excluded a few 2007 and 2008 draftees (3 from WRs, none from OTs, and I used 1980-2004 data for DBs since that was really 2 positions). I don’t think that 3-4 years as a starter is terrible, but in most cases, the player was in the league for 5-10+ years, and may not have started an entire season for the team that drafted him…so that seems like a half-bust: not good enough to be a fine example of a #1 draft pick, but not an all-out bust, either. I think there were a few cases of careers shortened by injuries, and that still is a factor on draft day. So I think that system is more fair and accurate than it isn’t.

I agree, it would be tough to draft a RB, but it wouldn’t be easy either way. I suppose there is a chance that Harvin could be a backup RB also, and that would be even more interesting. I don’t know what to think about him anyway. I liked Eric Metcalf back in the day, and Reggie Bush is an overpaid Eric Metcalf, but Harvin doesn’t have their speed. I think he could probably be useful to whomever drafts him, but I’d rather take a quality CB or maybe OT (but this seems like something which could be addressed in FA). If it’s DHBey vs. Harvin, I think that would be difficult also.

I’d rather not see them drop down for 2 2s and 2 3s. There will be someone worth selecting at #22, and I’d rather see the extra half mil or less spent on one of the 25 best players in the draft.

by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

What???

You say that two guys that start for 3-4 years equals a bust? lol

You really feel that is a fair justification don’t you?

by Forty-Four on Apr 4, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Half-Busts

The average NFL career for non-RBs is about 5 years. At the low end of that spectrum are preseason cuts (zero years), careers of 1 year or less, and 2 years. A 1st round pick is expected to be at the higher end of that spectrum (7-8+ years, 5 as a starter) since 1st rounders are not selected for depth, as lower round selections are. The truly good 1st round picks win the starting job as a rookie or 2nd year player at the latest, and that’s what I’m hoping the Vikings find at #22.

The OT half-busts were <http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MitcLe20.htm“>Leonard Mitchell and ”http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BladBr20.htm" >Brian Blados (a veteran who had been moved around and either inherited 8 starts in one of those years due to injury or lost his starting job). Maybe one of these should be considered a bust, which wouldn’t change the bust rate.

The WRs were Kevin Johnson, Dennis Northcutt, Jerome Pathon (what kind of WR can’t be productive with Peyton throwing to him, if not a half-bust at the very least?) and Randal “Thrill” Hill. By the time that Northcutt and Pathon were in their 3rd year of starting, they were playing for another team. Hill was traded or cut after his first game as a Dolphin.

Counting the half-busts as successes (0 points each), the bust rates are as follows:
DB: 24%
OT: 40%
WR: 42%

If the Vikings drafted the next Dennis Northcutt, Jerome Pathon or Kevin Johnson or Randal Hill with the 22nd pick, wouldn’t you call it a bust? Most NFL fans would, I think. (I happen to like Northcutt, but I would expect more from a 1st round pick.)

by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Harvin carried the ball out of the Gator backfield a ton. He had some of his more explosive plays at running back. Note: he had a run first quarterback threat in the backfield with him. His versatility, suited for thirds downs, would make Taylor expendable.

Harvin’s speed is his best attribute. I doubt either Metcalf or Bush’s forty time is much faster (4.3 – 4.4).

by LoveHate on Apr 4, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dual threat

Reggie Bush ran a 4.42 according to this. I couldn’t find Eric Metcalf’s combine numbers from way back in the day, but I do remember him, and he couldn’t have been much slower than Reggie Bush, if at all.

NOTHING could make CT expendable to the Vikings’ coaching brain trust!

by KC Viking on Apr 4, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

AP

Could you find Adrian Peterson’s numbers?

by LAviking on Apr 5, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

?

Number of partially torn ligaments: 1
Reasons to keep CT (esp. in the minds of the coaching staff): too numerous to list.
AP’s production numbers have suggested to me that a good trade for CT should be pursued (or even a lukewarm one) for 2 years, but I don’t think he’ll be moved. It’s one of the few instances when the Chilly staff’s rationale makes quite a bit of sense to me.

or combine #s?

AP ran a 4.40 in the 2007 combine (USA Today draft coverage—I found USAToday coverage for the 2005-2008 draft/combine and NFL salaries with Google).

by KC Viking on Apr 5, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Crabtree were to fall

I would love the Vikings to move up and get him. If they could grab him at 15 or so, That would be an excellent move. If they could do it without giving up their 2nd, they could use that pick on a RT. I don’t even care what the other picks are. With Crabtree and a good RT like Loadholt, that would fill all the holes the Vikings have. There would need to be some depth added, but that could come after the draft.

by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 4, 2009 5:14 PM CDT reply actions  

According to the Value Chart, the Vikings’ 1st and 3rd wouldn’t be enough to get to 15. Their 1st and 2nd would, but then the Vikings would be overpaying a little bit, although if they asked for a 4th in return on top of moving up for their 1st and 2nd, that would roughly approximate fair value, according to the chart.

Not that teams always treat the chart as gospel. But it’s been around for a while now, and every team has it.

Their 1st and 3rd would be enough to move to, say 18 or so. Right before the QB-starved Bucs and a little before the QB-starved Lions. Just sayin.

In all likelihood, though, as far as the 1st round goes, I think they either stand pat or move down. They typically move around a lot after the 1st round, though, with mixed results.

by jianfu on Apr 6, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

10 of the 13 draft picks in the Speilman/Childress era are still on the team and contributing (I believe Jaymar is the only draftee still on the practice squad) and the 3 that aren’t are the 2 7th round picks and Rufus Alexander who I believe is now a Colt. Just curious why you think it has been with mixed results?

by Josh_D on Apr 6, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

T-Jax – Vikings moved up to get him when he would’ve been available (MTL) in the 3rd or 4th
Tyrell Johnson – Vikings moved up to get him last year. Jury is still out, although I do think he will be a pretty good safety in a year or two.

See… mixed results:) hahaha

by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 6, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

And both are projected starters. We can debate the merits of who they picked, but to have that many guys that your team drafted to still be on the team and contributing is pretty damn good.
Here are the numbers for the division since 2006: Source – ESPN Draft Tracker
Minn – 15 of 19 (79% still on team)
GB – 25 of 32 78%
Lions – 16 of 24 66%
Bears – 11 of 28 60%
What to look for from there would be how many of those guys still there are starters/backups/special teamers/bench riders and where they got them in the draft, but I am sure based on the debate of those players could still result in… mixed results ;), I would still say however, that the Vikings have drafted very well since the new guys came in. It should also be noted that while the Vikings had less picks then everyone else in the league, they still hit more than missed.

by Josh_D on Apr 6, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aside: I am currently on unemployment till the next job comes a long so I have some free time – 10 of the 15 guys drafted that are still on the team are also on the 2 deep depth chart. Booty, Jaymar, Guion, McCauley, and Allison are the only players not on the 2 deep, though Guion, McCauley and Allison were rotated into games last season and only Jaymar was inactive all season.

by Josh_D on Apr 6, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

You forgot to mention...

High round draft picks that are no longer on the team. I agree that the Vikings are generally pretty good with the draft, but there are just as many busts we drafted in the first 2 rounds as there are studs.

by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 6, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Every player drafted in the first two rounds in a starter and still on the team. The highest draft pick not currently on the team is 5th round pick Greg Blue from 2006. I remember liking him for his big hits, but I don’t think he is in the NFL anymore. Other than that, 6th rounder Rufus Alexander, and 7th rounders Thigpen and Chandler Williams are all the players that are not longer with the Vikings. Seem that the high round picks are all accounted for for the Vikings.

Here are the first guys out from the other NFC Norse Teams:
Bears – 2nd rounder Dan Bazuin, 3rd Rounder Michael Okwo
Lions – 4th rounders AJ Davis
Packers – 3rd rounder Abdul Hodge
There are surely some busts and guys who haven’t quite lived up to their billing, but the 2006 class is just getting into it money year when contracts start running out and its time to start showing what, if any future they have in the league.

by Josh_D on Apr 6, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are right

I was thinking of the 2004 and 2005 drafts. Those were ones I’d rather forget! lol

by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 6, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mainly Jackson, and to a lessor extent Johnson. I like Johnson, and hope he can be that intimidator at safety, but considering there were several solid WR prospects and a couple QB prospects available as well in that draft, I’m not sure if they wouldn’t have been better off standing pat. We’ll see.

I do notice that while the Vikings have kept a higher percentage of drafted players than other NFCN teams, they also had the least number of picks. One pet theory I have for last year’s historically bad special teams play was they simply didn’t have enough of the type of player teams typically employ in special teams: younger players, rookies through 3rd year guys or so, that are typically plucked from the draft filler. Odds are miniscule you’re going to pick up a starter in the late rounds, but you can always find coverage guys. I thought that with the Allen trade and the several minor draft manuevering trades they’ve done, maybe that helped explain a little of it. Looking back, they lost net picks in 2006. In 2007 they gained picks (including a 2008 3rd rounder that helped them nab Allen). In 2008 I think they lost again. But who knows? Just a theory.

by jianfu on Apr 6, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like your theory on special teams play and how it can be affected by the number of draft picks you have over time. Wonder if any of the other teams that weren’t very good at special teams didn’t have a lot of draft picks the pass 3 years? And at what point are you getting enough draft picks to both get starters and have bodies for special teams? Does it have to be 3 years or is a progressive over time where even after one with less picks shows a dip in special teams production? Lot of avenues for data there. I like your theory.

Personally, I like the Johnson pick. He kept the Vikings for having to resign Sharper who probably would have wanted money closer to Medaiu (sic) if he had stayed. Don’t know that he wanted that kind of money for sure, but I would guess that as he was a veteran and leader on the defense, he would want to be the highest paid at his position at the very least. The Vikings secondary also clearly needed some new talent and he was considered one of, if not the best safety in the draft. The only QBs that were taken in the second round were Brohm, who ended up getting beat out by a 7th rounder so glad the Vikings didn’t get him, and Chad Henne of whom the book is still out on, but even Miami thought/knew they had to get a guy to play for a year or two before he was ready. Johnson started right away (due to injury, but he was still the guy) and played admirably and was decent enough on special teams and in a safety rotation. There were some WRs who were drafted before Johnson that did really well as rookies (Royal, Nelson, Avery), but only one who was taken after who I would have wanted (DeSean Jackson, damn I liked him coming out of college). Still glad, they got Johnson, but if I had to chose between Johnson and Jackson (DeSean) I’d probably go Jackson, but I am a PAC-10 guy.

by Josh_D on Apr 7, 2009 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

No trading up!

We need all the draft picks we can get. And no we don’t need a WR in the first unless Macklin or Crabtree falls to us and #22 is to high to take Nicks. I say our best bet is to trade down pick up a pick or two and then take Loadholt OT/Buter CB/ or maybe even Nicks there. RT is priority #1 and a cover corner #2. WR could use some upgrading but it’s not tops on the list. We need to replenish this veteran team of ours. And no don’t trade CT either resign him instead we need him for our Superbowl run.

by nmvikesfan on Apr 5, 2009 12:56 AM CDT reply actions  

#1 Pick - WR (Conditional)

That is, conditional on whether or not someone really good is available down at #22.

Drafting an offensive lineman with our #1 pick makes sense only if there isn’t a good WR available. It isn’t that we don’t need a good RT… it’s that this draft is supposed to be deep for linemen, and if that’s true, we can pick up a very good prospect in the second round for that position. In the meanwhile, we desperately need a faster WR than Berrian.

by DCPurple on Apr 6, 2009 9:09 AM CDT reply actions  

This cutler trade has benefits for us as well.

That is one less team with a pick before us that needs a Wideout.

by Bjorno on Apr 6, 2009 12:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

DN strives to be the best blog about the Minnesota Vikings on the internet, doing so with a unique blend of insight and analysis, as well as (hopefully) wit and humor. We hope you enjoy the site, and make it your home for Minnesota Vikings info!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Deathstarvikings_small
2012 Draft Player Rankings: Top 10 UPDATE 1.0
Images_small
SB Nation 2012 Mock Draft

Recent FanPosts

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Triangle Of Authority

Dailynorseman_small Christopher Gates

Ted_logo_small Ted Glover

Victory__small Eric J. Thompson

Assistant Coaches

Kira_small MarkSP18

Wiggy_7_small Skol Girl

Headshot_small KJSegall