What will be,Will be

by speedlod on Apr 7, 2009 11:30 PM CDT Comment 40 comments

I would love to think that our front office has our best interest at heart,but bottom line they are trying keep their jobs along with everyone else.That said,does hiring Chilly seem like a smart move,NO.What makes you think they are going to make a smart move now,if they didnt with H.C.posisition.

This draft is going to make Tice and Denny look like Genuis in the making,which to tell the truth they already have.Problem we have is how long must we endure this,my guess is we pick a something we dont need,like a waterboy.Dont get your hopes up,we wont pick by need,but by what Chilly thinks we need.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

0 recs | Comment 40 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

You can like or dislike Chilly as a H.C. as much as you want

and I would totally respect your view, but why complain about the draft? Spielman has had quite a good draft history with the Vikes, so your complaining holds no water.

by Spoolinup on Apr 8, 2009 12:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Draft Bust

2006 was a draft year bust. All the other ones were solid to above average.

by LAviking on Apr 8, 2009 2:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you mean the 2005 draftof which there are no players left on the team from that draft and was before Speilman and Childress. 2006 netted Greenway, Griffin, Cook, Jackson, and Ray Edwards. I wouldn’t call any of them busts. Living up to every fans standards? Maybe not, but outside of Cook they are all still starters.

by vikingfuture8816 on Apr 8, 2009 2:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, 2006 was

before Speilman came on, but you are right that was not a bust draft, although I am not supper high on Cook, and we reached for TJack, when he was likely to be still around a little later. but Greenway was the real deal, Ray Edwards is good, and was a good value pick where we got him, so was Griffin. 2007 was an awsome draft as we got Peterson (yay!), Sidney Rice, Brian Robison, Tylor Thigpin (could have still been a viking if Chili wasn’t incompetant), and Aundrae Allison.

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on Apr 8, 2009 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not a bust year, but...

…for a draft that was supposed to have netted at least 5 worthy starters, it’s kind of a stinker.

Greenway: great talent who missed a year with injury.
Cook: among the most penalized OL of his time.
Griffin: after having a reputation for allowing the biggest cushion in the NFL, finally made a couple of good plays, but probably still needs to be moved to nickel or safety. Richard Marshall would have been a MUCH better pick…good enough that it wouldn’t have mattered whether Cook or Edwards turned out.
Edwards: stats as a starter (with much better talent around him in the front 7) are very similar to Udeze’s. A depth guy or stopgap starter at best.
TJ: really hasn’t proven himself after a cup of coffee in ’06, a full season in ’07, and a handful of good games vs. bad defenses and NY reserves before looking like a deer in headlights in the playoffs.
(Greg Blue was still on an NFL roster in 2007 or 2008)
(Artis Hicks has started a lot of games, probably more than whomever could have been had for the 6th round pick used to acquire him)

I can’t believe I’m about to write this, but Ryan Cook will be the 2nd best pick of this draft if he can do a good to great job of replacing Matt Birk.

Cedric Griffin could still be a 3rd long-term piece of the puzzle if he is allowed to play safety, but he seems doomed to allow more catches and make the subsequent tackles (he led all CB in tackles in 2007 and/or 2008, I’ve heard) that fool Chilly & Co. into thinking that he’s an above-average CB. I think that makes him the worst sort of player to have since they appear to be helpful, but are actually harmful.

by KC Viking on Apr 9, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll take Griffin as our #2 any day.

In AP I trust

by FarvaForTheVikings on Apr 9, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Griffin has stepped it up this last year. It’s amazing what a little pass rush can do for your secondary.

He hasn’t made any bone-headed plays, and I haven’t seen him get burned lately. Besides, he is opposite Antoine Winfield so he is going to get thrown towards much more often.

Besides, how can he lead ALL CB’s in tackles if Antoine has more tackles than Griffin does?

Does that make Antoine a bad CB? No.

It means that because of our stout run defense, other teams throw the ball more. That equals more tackles for the secondary.

by Bjorno on Apr 10, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Something I wondered when we got a 7th rounder for Troy Williamson – he was a Tice pick and in his trade, he joined him in Jacksonville…

What blackmail material does Williamson hold over him for the Jags to even bother trading for a player who should have been cut?

On a serious note, I think we’ve drafted OK with Spielman, but I do worry about the development of the offensive skill-players (which is a coaching issue)

by ViolentSilence on Apr 8, 2009 7:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Good. Bad. Chilly's got the Divison.

6-10, 8-8, 10-6.

2008 NFC North Division Champs.

That’s his bottom line. He shows clear progress every year, and if he stays on-track, this year the Vikes should be 12-4.

I don’t think Chilly’s going anywhere for a while, and as much as we don’t like his playcalling… his numbers can’t be argued with.

by DCPurple on Apr 8, 2009 7:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I've barked up that tree before...

And the cat just never comes down.

Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com

Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!

by Manimal on Apr 8, 2009 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So ...

in three years you are expecting Chilli to lead us to 16 – 0???

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on Apr 8, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m saying that until he posts a losing record, he’s with the Vikes to stay. If he’s really that good, the record will continue to improve. If he regresses, he’ll be bounced. The record is the bottom line, and replacing him now would set the Vikes back at least 2 years.

by DCPurple on Apr 9, 2009 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How much of that relates to other teams in the division going backwards though? And strength of schedule? People are saying Miami will be a great team this year (OK, mostly confined to Dolphins fans…), but they neglect the fact that NE were without Brady, and they got to play both West Divisions, with arguably 6 of the 8 weakest teams in the league that aren’t called the Lions.

We squeezed past Detroit by less than a TD each time. Reverse those results and we’d have been 8-8 again.

The other thing about that is it’s a convenient cut-off point – the year before Chad Brainless took over we went 9-7. The improvement could be attributed to AD – remember the win over Chicago in 07 when he returned a kick for a TD?

by ViolentSilence on Apr 8, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The moral of the story is...

A football TEAM is a sum of all of its parts. It’s not one person, nor two people, but the entire organization. That’s why it’s such a tough sport to succeed in. You have to have all the right parts, working together, and working well, in order to get it all to work.

A new coach, even taking over a 9-7 team, is going to have hiccups. Despite what you want to think, the team has gotten better over the past two years with Childress at the helm. I’m expecting even more improvement this year. Hopefully, the trend continues.

Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com

Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!

by Manimal on Apr 8, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats right

the Team improved, Chilies play calling was still horrible, we are still stuck with the QB he convinced us to move up and grab in the second round, when it was widely believed that he woudl still be their in the 4th round.

the teams talant improvement had little to due with Chillie and more to do with the personel moves made by Spielmen and the willingness of Zigi to spend for talant.

the teams improvement can be attributed more to the talant on the team, then on Chilies abilities as a coach.

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on Apr 8, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What are you basing that off of?

Yeah, they acquired new talent, but that’s a collaboration between all higher ups involved: Spielman, Zygi, and Childress. Do you think that Spielman is the type of guy to go out and trade for a guy without consulting his coach? I doubt it.

Spielman has final say on draft day stuff, so he approved and must have at least somewhat thought Tarvaris was a good pick up as well, and thought enough to move up to get him.

So you say it’s because the team improved, and not because of Childress. Doesn’t Childress, you know, run practices, and all the decisions trickle down from him? He’s the head coach; to give him absolutely no credit is folly, not to mention just being blinded by your dislike of him.

Give the guy some credit; the team has improved, and while the talent has something to do with it, the talent has something to do with it on all teams. To think it has absolutely nothing to do with Childress is not fair to him.

Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com

Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!

by Manimal on Apr 9, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spielmen

wasn’t with the team when we moved up to reach for T-Jack. We had that dud form SD (fran foley). who zigi fired shortly after the draft by the way. fi i remember we also reached for Ryan Cook as well.

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on Apr 9, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Touche...

I stand corrected on that point. What do you think about my other comments?

Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com

Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!

by Manimal on Apr 9, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are a couple of things about the coaching

Chili is so predictable my mom, who hates football and never watches it, could tell me what plays he is calling. he only passes on obvious passing downs and never lets his QB’s call an audible, even when it is obvious the defense is alligned perfectly to stop what ever play has been called in.

for once, I would like to see us take advantage of the 9+ man boxes we face on almost every down and audible into a pass to exploit those defensive formations. that is what good coaches do. they bait opposing defenses into formations that create exploitable matchups. instead Chili insist on smashing the greatest football player in the world into a brick wall for 1 yard gains 15-18 times a game, waiting for that one time he will take it to the house so we can win. sooner or later that is going to get AP hurt. also, when we are up big lat in the game, he needs to stop pounding AP into those walls (like he did in the second Bears game) when he could let Chester get some burn.

If you watch the games, and the offensive play calling, you will start to see that we won games in spite of Childress, not because of Childress. The Indy Game was a prime example of the problems of Childress Coaching stile. Dungy, a great coach made adjustments in the second half that allowed him to come back for a 15-0 defecit and win. That is winning because of the coaching.

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on Apr 9, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Improvement

The Vikings were 3rd in salary last year, and were 2nd going into 2009 last I’d checked. They barely beat the first 0-16 team ever twice. I’ll call it improvement if the Vikings are a top 5 team by W-L record (or better) going into the playoffs.

Chilly’s KAO has never ranked better than 25th in passing. That must improve in order for the Vikings to win in the playoffs. Of course, points scored, total offense, and total yards/play matter more, and I expect top 10 ranks in at least 2 of those 3. Otherwise, why did the ownership hire an offensive coordinator? The below-average offense only proves that Chilly is replaceable.

I expect at least 15 games by the same starting QB this year, barring injury, to see improvement there.

If AP has 375-400+ touches again, then we can kiss the rest of his career good-bye, so I expect to see none of that.

The things he was supposed to bring to the team have yet to materialize, and wherever the team has actually improved (AP, Jared Allen) helped the team win in spite of him, as Thor mentioned.

by KC Viking on Apr 9, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The PLAYING PERSONNEL has gotten better, the results have improved slightly. What I WANT to believe is that the Vikings are getting better as a team. The evidence for them doing so does not go past the W-L column, and there is more to football than that simple tally.

Didn’t Sean Payton and Eric Mangini have pretty good first years? Mike Tomlin had a 10-6 record in his first year with a team that were 8-8 the year before. Childress is supposed to be a brilliant offensive mind – despite people pointing at the offensive weaknesses since Culpepper got injured, we’re not improving in that regard.

Thankfully, we’ve had good defensive co-ordinators whilst he has been in charge…

by ViolentSilence on Apr 10, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to play a little devil’s advocate, where were Mangini and Payton’s teams during the playoffs last year?

In AP I trust

by FarvaForTheVikings on Apr 10, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Out of it! I was just throwing a few names that had good first years because it seems overly generous to give a coach a free pass from the record of the year before they started (particularly when they got the first losing record in a few years…).

If I recall, the Saints sacked their DC after Payton’s second year as it was that unit that fell apart. I kind of think we’ve got the opposite going to that specific example – We’ve doing OK with DC, but our OC (and offensive genius HC…) are stagnant, if not regressing. AP makes us look better than we are

by ViolentSilence on Apr 12, 2009 6:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And remember the KC game where Shiancoe dropped a TD pass? Oh, and the Broncos game where Chester Taylor fumbled on the pylon? Reverse those and we’d have been 10-6 the season before this last one too.

by Frost on Apr 8, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Desperate

Every team has plays like those, but good teams didn’t need those to fall their way just to avoid mediocrity.

by KC Viking on Apr 9, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right, which is why saying that if not for a few plays we’d be 8-8 is ridiculous.

by Frost on Apr 9, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

More like 5-11 or 7-9

…based on entire games in which multiple plays could have not gone the Vikings’ way, rather than expecting a couple more crucial plays to fall their way:
- 2 entire games vs. the worst team in history, each won by less than a TD.
- that ridiculous bucket of slop vs. Chicago.
- another such bucket vs. New Orleans.
- the fact that kickers will make game-winning FG against us sometimes.
- especially if we punt while down by 14 with less than 3 minutes on the clock “hoping to get the ball back”.

Truly good teams with competent coaching beat the 2008 Lions by more than a TD (Falcons by 13; Texans by 7; Panthers by 9; Bucs by 18; Titans by 37; Colts by 10; Saints by 35…ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE, including losing teams like JAX and SF, won by more than a TD except the Bears’ win by 4 in week 9 and the Vikings’ 2 nailbiters) and don’t lead the league in return TDs allowed. Thos are indisputable facts. Even you would have to agree with me on that much.

The 2008 Vikings remind me a lot of the 2003 Royals.

by KC Viking on Apr 9, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except that NFL teams can win any game, even the worst team in the league. Sure, we had a harder time with them than their other teams, it doesn’t mean we’re worse than the teams who scored more. As I recall, we kicked JAXs ass by more than a TD, so does that make them worse than the Lions last season?

I’m pretty sure though that you could name any team, and if I wanted to waste time looking through every play of their games, I could find enough game-changing plays in there that could have not gone their way to drop their record down several wins.

It’s just kind of silly to hold those kind of plays against the team, saying “Look, if not for this we would have been worse!” because EVERY team has plays like that.

by Frost on Apr 10, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not quite

NFL teams can win any game, even the worst team in the league.

No. Not the 2008 Lions…except the closest game they played and almost won was vs. the Vikings.

As I recall, we kicked JAXs ass by more than a TD, so does that make them worse than the Lions last season?

No, why would they be worse than the Lions? JAX won 1 game vs. a winning team last year, and that team (the Colts) beat them the other time they played.

How does this example of the Vikings looking good against a terrible team add any credibility to the idea that they were 100% for real and likely to be at least 11-5 in 2009 (because if they really are for real, then they should get better, right)?

by KC Viking on Apr 14, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lots of Factors

But at the end of the day, it dosn’t matter if we glue hair to Chilly’s arse and make him walk backwards; if the record supports him, he in like Flint.

by DCPurple on Apr 9, 2009 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You seem to have forgotten

…that Chilly inherited a team that had been 9-7 in the previous year and had won a playoff game at Lambeau the year before that. The Vikings had been at or above .500 each of the 3 years before Childress took over (only the Seahawks could say the same in the NFC during that time).

Your numbers are off, also. They are: 6-10, 8-8, 10-7. Chilly’s record is below .500 over 3 years.

That means that the Chilly effect has been -3, +2, +1.5. It took 3 years to produce a season with 1 more win than the Tice regime in 2005.

When great coaches have taken over other teams, they inherited horrible teams and were winning and ranking higher in offense than the Vikings did by their 3rd year.

by KC Viking on Apr 9, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

and the last losing record prior to Brainless’ first year was 2002.

by ViolentSilence on Apr 10, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s quite the generalization there.

In AP I trust

by FarvaForTheVikings on Apr 10, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And then...

A marble statue of Klink in front of the new stadium.

by CitrusFLViking on Apr 8, 2009 9:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

One thing I like about Chilly

is the fact that he has brought accountability back to the team, in terms of off-field behaviour. It seemed like we had one thing after another hitting us, with the worst being the Love Boat scandal. We now have a solid group of players, which lets us concentrate on business. Now, taking care of that business remains to be seen. Record-wise, so far so good (even if alot of luck was involved).

by Lofoten on Apr 8, 2009 4:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for your brilliant assesment.

TIce was a world renowned master of drafts, as we all know. His 2005 draft is one of the best in NFL history. I hope the front office doesn’t pick another player they don’t need like when they took that running back in the 2007 draft. What a waste of a first round pick that was.

Your insight is only rivaled by Peter King himself. I expect to be reading your articles in SI soon.

http://vikingsmashfootball.wordpress.com/

by BeardedAxe on Apr 8, 2009 11:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Peter King I aint

Justa 4:30 am guy like everyone else.gotta feed my family like everyone else.This post was more to make ya think vs compare other drafts.Strir up thoughts.and get juices flowing,hell we still got snow here so FootballSeason still along way off.
Just dont see F.O. and Staff making a smart decsision this year.

by speedlod on Apr 11, 2009 2:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What exactly makes you think this draft is going to be a huge bust? Because we didn’t sign 15 FAs? Recent drafts have been pretty good for Spielman. Especially the Peterson-year draft. Now granted last year wasn’t as good, but Tyrell is going to be replacing Sharper and is by all accounts a servicable safety. It won’t hurt us having him out there. Not only that, but Sullivan may end up replacing Birk. The Booty pick was meh, Jury is out on him. Johnson is, I believe, on the practice squad, and LeTroy Guion wasn’t terrible last season.

So, once again, Spielman was able to provide us a draft full of starters, replacing the guys on our roster who had gotten a little slower and older in their age. He’s injecting youth into the team, and drafting players at positions where we may lose some players in the following seasons FA. Which seems like a good idea to me. So I’m not sure where your criticism of the F.O. is coming from.

by Frost on Apr 11, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

tell ya what

Peterson was a no brainer,so much hype over his shoulder made Teams shy away from him.Article today says 78 players already on the dont touch list and 10 or 15 more might be added.Granted I dont want a Pacman or a T.O. but I sure wouldnt mind another Randy Moss.As far as F.A.s hell I thought they did pretty good,not breaking the bank,signing to need.Not sure where we are going in Q.B. department,but if they feel T.J. and Sage are they answer gotta think somethings wrong.Though Sage might be a good fit,have to wait till season to know for sure.As far as drafts go takes like 3 yrs to decide if had a good draft,not all players are of ADs calibre

by speedlod on Apr 11, 2009 4:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but you don’t need a player of AD caliber to have a good draft. A good draft to me is one where more than half your picks, and those half better be the upper half, produce solid results for your team.

Now you’re right, I shouldn’t label last year’s draft as a good one yet because it’s only been one season, and as we saw with Rice, some players have a dropoff the following season. But, at this point, all signs point to it as having been a good draft, which gives me confident this upcoming draft we’lll be just fine as well.

by Frost on Apr 11, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs