Pat Williams has "Trust Issues" with NFL
by Anthony21 on May 24, 2009 12:40 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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PrintPat Williams took part in a very interesting interview with Sirius NFL Radio on Saturday night -- a full article on the appearance is available over at FOX Sports, but here are the quotes of interest from Phat Pat's interview:
"Basically now I got to hold trust issues with the NFL. I don't know if I can trust them now."
"I don't blame the judges. I just feel sorry for the other guys [the three Saints players], because basically me and Kevin's case is still going on. So the other guys I feel bad for because they basically threw the union case out."
"If I did something wrong, I'm going to take it. But they knew about it and didn't tell the players."
"I earned everything I got. I came into the NFL undrafted, I earned respect from other players, I earned respect from other coaches, I earned all of that. The NFL ain't gave me nothing. I earned everything that I got. I'm fighting basically just to get my name cleared."
Can ya blame him for having trust issues with the NFL? True, players are ultimately responsible for what they put in their bodies, but the league dropped the ball big time by not giving fair notification that StarCaps contained a banned diuretic -- and this has certainly created animosity in more players than Phat Pat after such an inexcusable failure. In fact, as it turns out, Judge Magnuson said almost the exact same thing as Williams did when he issued his ruling on Friday:
"There is no doubt that it would have been preferable for the NFL to communicate with players specifically about the presence of bumetanide in StarCaps," Judge Magnuson writes at page 18 of his opinion. "The NFL’s failure to do so is baffling, but it is not a breach of the NFL’s duties to its players. It is clear that this situation arose because the parties to these cases do not trust each other. The NFL does not trust the Union or the players. The players and the Union do not trust the NFL. No one believes that the opposing parties have any common interests. The situation is deplorable and leads to suspicion and the sort of no-holds-barred litigation tactics so clearly on view here."
It's been a continuing theme of this soap opera -- the consequences of the Williams Wall's court battle go well beyond the Minnesota Vikings and the ability of their defensive line to be intact when the season starts. Judge Magnuson is absolutely on-target in highlighting the problematic relationship between the Union and the league, and this hostility could lead to big trouble down the road.
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“The NFL does not trust the Union or the players. The players and the Union do not trust the NFL. No one believes that the opposing parties have any common interests. The situation is deplorable and leads to suspicion and the sort of no-holds-barred litigation tactics so clearly on view here.”"
Well that doesn’t bode well for a new CBA negotiations that are sure to drag on past the expiration of the current one. Until the league does something to prove that they have the best interest of the players in mind, not just the best interest of the owners and power hungry execs, this will never be settled and will almost certainly lead to a strike.
well, if he feels that way, he should retire
Give up that huge lump sum of money he receives on a weekly basis…
yeah right.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 24, 2009 4:40 PM CDT reply actions
If you are talking about Pat Williams
then I entirely disagree with you. Just because someone is being slighted, doesn’t mean they should retire. He is a monster and does his job. The NFL needs to do their part as well. When they fail to do their part, then they need to use common sense, such as “Ok players, we admit that we should have informed the Union or someone on God’s green earth about this, soooo, we are going to let this one go due to our oversight. Furthermore [add in caveat verbage for anyone attempting to take advantage of this situation in the future]”
What about?
There were apparently several other players to test positive in the last several years that were never punished, or made public for that matter. I still don’t see how that part of the case was thrown out by the judge.
NFL=fail
ifyouwannacrownem, go post on your own blog site if you can’t be objective and realize this is about more than just a suspension for a rival team (one that won’t benefit you guys in any way btw).
actually
a suspension of the william’s wall would only hurt the Bears. They will be 4 games fresher. and Guarantee they will come back with a vengeance!
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on May 25, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
There were apparently several other players to test positive in the last several years that were never punished, or made public for that matter. I still don’t see how that part of the case was thrown out by the judge.
1.Name them
2.so Pat and Kevin count right? seeing that they played all of the 2008 season while others were suspended for the same reason.
3. This has nothing to do with division rivals. as much dislike I have for the Vikings, no way should they be allowed to get away with it. We live in an era of guilt by association. they should have brought it to the league. the Bears former OG terrance Metcalf was caught and he denied it. I didn’t defend him, and wouldn’t defend him.
I took the time to download the banned substance list off the NFLPA site, and I don’t even play in the NFL. what’s their excuse?
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 25, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
for the record
Pat and Kevin Williams played all of last season because they were fighting the case. The other people who were named in this case chose to serve their suspension, instead of waiting for the case to be resolved
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on May 25, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
same difference
who gives a shit? They were still able to play.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 26, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
raises hand
I give a shit because his statement is relevant. Think with your dipstick, Jimmy Ifuwannacrownem, and follow the conversation at regular speed.
I dont’ think the Saints players were suspended. Pretty sure all the suspensions got blocked. One of them was injured, so he didn’t play, but I’m pretty sure the other two did.
And how’s he supposed to name them if they weren’t made public? He doesn’t work for the NFL I don’t think. Granted I hadn’t heard anything about it, but he could have read an article I didn’t.
And how’s he supposed to name them if they weren’t made public?
letters in bold say it all…
There were apparently several other players to test positive in the last several years that were never punished, OR made public for that matter. I still don’t see how that part of the case was thrown out by the judge.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 26, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Glad you took the time to download the banned substance list
Is StarCaps on it now? Because it wasn’t when they were using it. So that doesn’t explain your reasoning.
It's a supplement
…and the NFL advises to avoid supplements altogether in plain English. The players also agreed to not take last-minute weight pills and/or diuretics, so they were in violation for that, too. The very nature of unregulated ingredients in supplements means that the NFL could not and said they would not be able to keep a complete list of supplements which may or may not contain banned substances from one unlabeled batch to another.
Is StarCaps on it now? Because it wasn’t when they were using it. So that doesn’t explain your reasoning.
No Shit Sherlock! the products wouldn’t be on the list, the ingredients would be. Good job genius, shows how much you know.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 26, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
The ingredients weren’t on the Starcaps bottles either, so looking at the bottle, and then the list, there’d be no way to tell it was banned. And if you’re gonna be dick, just go away.
Oh, correcting you and your buddy makes me a dick?
I apologize if I come off like a jerk, but that’s me. nothing personal.
But still, no excuse. These guy’s get paid a king’s ransom to play a kid’s game. they were told if they were unsure, to ask the league.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 26, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
No
The language and tone that you use are what make you a dick. “who gives a shit” and “no shit Sherlock!” But, with the disclaimer of not meaning to come off like a jerk, I am cool with that.
Just remember, when we chat on this forum, it is to discuss opinions with each other, not throw things in other people’s faces. What makes it enjoyable is respecting each other’s opinions while debating our own. In the end, usually neither side changes their minds, but a fun exchange has occurred and we move on to the next topic.
So, in turn, you have my apologies for snapping back at you.
Now, back to the matter at hand. The guy gets paid a King’s Ransom to play the game and be productive. He isn’t in trouble off the field, he doesn’t fight dogs, hit women, or run into or from cops. He always brings a smile to the field. He does his best to abide by the rules.
I would venture that 100% of NFL players use one or another of the thousands of supplements that exist on the market. They need to, because their bodies have to continually put out more than the regular Joe Schmoe that plays recreationally after work. And, yes, I know I am using an absolute value by saying 100%, but having been around competitive sports most of my life, I think that it is probably on the money (to include kickers/punters).
The folks who were using StarCaps, thinking it was a good substance, had the bad luck of choosing a diuretic that had an unlisted possible masking substance in it, that they were not aware of. Had they been aware of it, this lawsuit and the Judge’s comments would not be a factor. It is near impossible to check every aspect of what they do in their life. They thought they had all bases covered. Now that they know, I am sure they will tighten up that part of their lives a bit more by going ANOTHER extra mile.
Money, in my opinion, has little to do with this equation.
well then, It's settled. I will do my best to be a choir boy.
As a professional athlete, you need to know what goes into your body. the fact that these athletes took supplements that contain a masking agent for steroids, that was never cleared by the league, is simple carelessness, considering the amount of money they get paid to perform.
I worked overnight at a local convenient store, and usually had products that were not supposed to be sent to my store. These products could be the result of shipment errors, and usually meant that something that my store ordered did not arrive. now the products that were received sometimes matched the aisle they were to go into. That’s why managers said if you’re unsure about the product, contact the supervisor and ask questions. Why? because selling someone else’s product is grounds for dismissal.
where accountability is concerned, the difference between a football player and a Grocery store worker are the same. So when you say money has nothing to do with it, you’re right. It’s a matter of fairness. If Pat Williams wasn’t sure, he can only blame himself.
From his time in Buffalo, I know the kind of character he is, but in this era of guilt by association, If you give one guy a pass, then everybody’s gonna want one. That can’t be allowed.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 26, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
With Friends Like The NFL, Who Needs Enemies?
The NFL has said recently it is glad that some of the StarCaps issues were dismissed in court, thus helping its steroids program which “protects the health and safety of NFL players.” If the NFL crows publicly about being interested in player health and safety but has neglected to tell the players that it had discovered that diet pills being promoted by a wealthy socialite had been spiked with an unlisted ingredient banned by the NFL, I’d have “trust issues”, too, Pat.
It’s like someone telling you “Guys, we keep telling people that we’ve got your back; that’s why we’ve stabbed you there. …And it’s all your fault.”
Sounds like a lying, sadistic bunch if there ever was one to me.
"The NFL’s failure to do so is baffling, but it is not a breach of the NFL’s duties to its players."
Can you say..bullshit?
I can outrun a mule deer.
Yes, and I often do
However, what Judge Magnuson means to say is that the NFL’s bragging that they are upholding health and safety with their steroids policy in itself is bullshit,, since they did not do anything to warn the general public that they had uncovered contaminated goods being sold; yet as a federal judge, it’s only my job to give rulings on federal law, and the federal law does not forbid the NFL and it’s players union from signing some agreement saying that the NFL gets to put such responsibilities which are not forbidden by law into the player’s lap. In other words, he meant the NFL is full of crap, but I cannot find where they have broken any federal law in this case, and the insipid union has signed off on this agreement, even though they’ve come fighting it in my court now.
Players Responsible
Well, I can see where the players are supposed to be responsible for everything that they put in their bodies…provided the NFL gives them a portable gas chromatograph so that they can analyze everything they ingest. I only wish I were a pastry chef in New York. I would bake Ex-Lax into Roger Goodell’s chocolate cake and then watch him “be responsible for that which he ingests!”
The NFL knew and did not advise teams about the banned diuretic, not listed in the ingredients tab on the product label. Good grief…how were the players supposed to know?
Any NFL player who takes any SUPPLEMENT deserves whatever happens next.
Read this (or this). It’s genuinely shocking to see how well they have played the ignorant fool role while hoping that the fans don’t bother to read up on how many memos the NFL sent or the exact wording of the rules and advice regarding supplements. It’s easy to be an apologist without such information, and easier to be outraged at the Williamses’ idiocy after reading such information.
By law, items not FDA approved as FOODs or DRUGs is called a supplement. Food and drug items MUST list all ingredients, and of course they are FDA approved for human consumption. The supplements are not held to those standards, and the players knew this. Smart players who take care of themselves consume zero supplements.
Someone dared someone else to name 1 player suspended for something similar. I can name a few: Detroit’s Shaun Rogers and Falcons Guard Matt Lehr in 2006 (although Lehr seemed to be using steroids) and Marcus Stroud in 2007 and Grady Jackson more recently (also involving StarCaps). So, even if the players were ignorant 2-3 years ago, they were not by the time Pat and Kevin Williams and a few Saints players (Lehr is now a Saint) tried to take StarCaps to lose weight.
The phony claims to ignorance also begs the question: why are so few getting caught if the ignorance is so widespread? The answer is because of the very careful wording of these rules which bans diet pills and diuretics or anything which serves a similar function, regardless of its ingredients (as pointed out in the first article I linked to in this post).
Better question: what would the Vikings’ record have been had the Williamses served their suspensions over the last 4 games of 2008, and how many added losses are likely with each serving 4-game suspensions in 2009?
Phony ignorance?
If you bought tainted Tylenol at your local pharmacy and died from it, you’d want your family not to sue anyone, because after all, you had ingested it because poison wasn’t on the label, and you are not around any more to say you are sorry for being so dumb?
Hope Williams can move past this
Pat is a great player and I wish him the best. Have a lot of respect for a guy not being drafted to hang in and become a star. Hope this does not hurt the way people view him
Look for Pat to come back stronger then ever
If Pat and Kevin are suspended and the Viks can stay at least 2-2 while they are gone it could work out very well for the Vikings. Both of thier DT’s will have one less month of wear and tear as they make a playoff push.
by fantasyrankings on May 26, 2009 12:09 AM CDT reply actions
Let's hope so.
Unfortunately, that didn’t happen with Shaun Rogers. Instead, his weight ballooned even more, he became even less effective, and he was traded away to the Browns.
Bottom line: players who take care of themselves and are disciplined enough to balance working out and not overeating never need to take something like StarCaps. It is a really desperate move by and a bad sign for the Williamses.
this is still just wrong
if it had been cocaine or meth it would still be a four game suspension…that’s just wrong. nfl needs to revamp its rules.
by iseepurplepeople on May 26, 2009 12:43 PM CDT reply actions
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