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Tuesday's Notebook: Back to Favre!

Catching Our Breath

Where were we?

Oh yeah, Brett Favre's still making up his mind, Childress is staying tight-lipped about the Favre soap opera, the status of Pat and Kevin Williams is still very much in question despite having many of their claims dismissed in federal court, the OTAs are getting started, and Percy Harvin and Sidney Rice have both been impressive thus far.

Whew!

If anyone tells you that late May is a slow time in the NFL, they clearly haven't paid much attention to the Minnesota Vikings.  We've got storylines developing on multiple fronts, and the one making the most noise as we exit Memorial Day weekend is that whole Brett Favre thing  His hand, it seems, is finally being forced.

Join me after the jump for the latest on Favre -- but first, after a weekend full of Williams Wall news, I think it's time for some predictions.  We know Peter Ginsburg, Pat and Kevin's attorney and a guy I have an update on below the fold, thinks that the shift back to state court offers plenty of advantages for his clients, but what do you think?  What's your prediction on whether or not the suspensions can be avoided?  Let me know in the comments section and poll...

Star-divide

As the Favre Turns

It's been far too long since Favre was in the headlines, dontcha think?  The lack of any new Favre rumors over the long weekend surely left a void in Vikings fandome, but thankfully, Peter King has cranked up the speculation machine:

He's going to have a make a decision whether to join the Vikings very soon, probably by this weekend, because the Vikings want to know what their 2009 future is at quarterback. I'm told the organization won't wait for a decision much longer, and if he has to get a minor operation to snip the damaged right biceps tendon that has been giving him pain, he has to do it soon. Like, within a week.

Good.  At some point, you stop doing the Brett Favre dance (or the Brett Favre boogie, I suppose) and force him to make a decision.  This thing has already gone on too long, with the constant speculation making the start of minicamp a lot more difficult than it would have been if Favre had made his decision by now. 

Bottom line: The Favre rumors have created a distraction and will continue to do so until the Vikings ultimately force his hand -- which will hopefully happen this week.

Turning the page on the Favre rumors would be rough if the vet quarterback decides against making a return, but the team will have plenty of time to do so if they get a "no" from him in the next few days.

And it's not just the distraction factor that gives the Vikings reason to stop playing around with Favre and ask him to make a decision.  Time is of the essence when it comes to the biceps tendon that's been nagging him -- if Favre finally decides to go through with an operation, he will obviously need time to rehab:

Favre needs surgery to release the biceps tendon that has been giving him discomfort throwing the ball. I'm told the tendon is hanging on by a thread. One source in the NFL medical establishment told me last week that he understands Favre's tendon is barely attached, and would take a minor arthroscopic procedure to detach it by snipping the tendon. If that happened, Favre would likely be unable to throw the ball for at least two weeks, with a month's rehab before he could throw like the old Favre.

That would bring us into the beginning of July, so if Favre takes care of this thing sooner rather than later, he'll have enough time to get back into shape for the season.  The key phrase, though, is "sooner rather than later" -- if he's gonna come back, he needs to get the operation done immediately.  He's past the point of being able to drag his feet any longer, since he's simply running out of time.

As long as Favre goes through with the procedure right away, there's reason to be excited.  He'll be healthy, and he'll be ready to go for September 13th.

Will he or won't he? I don't know. My best guess is he'll have the minor surgery if the tendon is still nagging him by week's end, and that he'll get his arm right and do a deal with the Vikings. But it's only a guess. As I've said through this whole thing, I've been wrong about Favre staying retired twice, and so I'm out of the Favre prediction business. Let's see what this week brings. We ought to have a better idea by the weekend.

With all the contradicting reports and shady rumors that have formed the vast majority of the media's Favre coverage, one of the few certainties is that a comeback isn't exactly a slam dunk if it requires surgery.  Favre has resisted the possibility of surgery through utilizing nonsurgical methods of trying to get the tendon to release, but this operation would nevertheless be routine with a short recovery time.  I'm in agreement with King on where I see this heading: I think Favre goes through with surgery and inks a deal with the Vikings.

And believe me, I say that knowing full well the impossibility of making Favre predictions.  Anyone who claims to know what Favre is going to do next is lying to you -- and that includes Favre himself.   He may not be the only indecisive professional athlete there's ever been, but he's certainly one of the more unpredictable ones.  Still, I think the best guess at this point is that he gets the procedure over with and starts prepping for the season.

Sound Familiar?

Hmm...where have we heard this one before?

Miami Dolphins defensive end Randy Starks has been arrested for aggravated battery on a police officer.

Miami Beach Police say they tried to stop the 25-year-old player when they noticed he was driving a truck packed with 13 people early Sunday along Ocean Drive. They say the vehicle was meant for only four people.

Police say Starks kept driving even as an officer was beside the truck. They say Starks swerved the vehicle slightly, hitting the officer in the chest and pinning him against another vehicle stopped in heavy traffic.

Sounds familiar, but I can't quite recall what this is reminding me of...

Williams Wall's Lawyer Acting Like a Lawyer

Florio caught up with some attorneys familiar with the Williams Wall court proceedings and is now reporting that attorney Peter Ginsburg, who is representing the Williamses, has been a tad two-faced when it comes to this case:

Although Vikings defensive tackles Kevin and Pat Williams might eventually escape their four-game suspensions, the Minnesota laws that could ultimately save them were not part of the initial lawsuit and instead were late additions to their legal challenges, according to attorneys familiar with the litigation.

The initial lawsuit filed on behalf of the players, we’re told, did not include claims under the Minnesota Drug and Alcohol Testing in the Workplace Act, or under the Minnesota Consumable Products Act. Instead, those claims were added only after the case was removed by the league from Minnesota state court to Minnesota federal court.

So when Ginsburg is telling the media that the "heart of the case" is still alive, he's correct -- if by "heart of the case" he means stuff that was added at the last minute and wasn't included in the initial lawsuit.  I'm truly stunned that a lawyer would do such a thing to distort the facts in his clients' favor.

Really, though, I couldn't care less about any hypocrisy on the part of Pat and Kevin's attorney.  The only thing that matters is their ability to be on the field for week one of the season.

I suppose I should put an asterisk next to that statement -- the only thing that matters is their ability to be on the field for week one of the season, as long as their suspension is being scrapped entirely rather than delayed once again through the legal process.  People seem to be feeling reasonably confident that Pat and Kevin still have a solid case, but if they're gonna need to serve the suspension, it's gonna need to be served in the first four games of the season.

I'm not interested in the suspension being delayed.  Either they need to serve it or they don't -- that's what needs to be determined between now and week one.

Poll
Give me your gut feeling: Will Pat and Kevin Williams be in uniform for week one of the season?
Yes
332 votes
No
370 votes
Not sure
61 votes

763 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 26 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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The Brett Favre boogie is what hicks do in their free time.

I can outrun a mule deer.

by Gonzo2 on May 26, 2009 7:53 AM CDT reply actions  

John Madden can dig it.

In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.

by FarvaForTheVikings on May 26, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt the Williams Wall wins. I hope they do, but I just don’t see it happening now.

I’m still holding out hope that Favre stays retired.

In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.

by FarvaForTheVikings on May 26, 2009 11:49 AM CDT reply actions  

This Ain't Jericho and the Wall Ain't Fallin'

The NFL is attempting once more today to keep the Williamses out of Minnesota court. Why? Don’t let their lawyers words fool you. The NFL is scared as hell.

Apparently, their lawyers don’t read the Bill of Rights much. The Tenth Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Minnesota law is not some nagging detail that does not apply to large corporations. Goodell’s limo is not free to drive at 100 mph through Minnesota. The car does not have diplomatic tags on the rear. The NFL is not immune to Minnesota law.

Two Minnesota laws state you cannot punish employees based on one drug test and you cannot punish employees for legal products they consume on their own time. StarCaps were sold legally. Nikki Haskell, the wealthy former stock broker, diet advisor, socialite, and internationally recognized hostess, promoted the StarCaps diet system. Haskell is the founder of Balanced Health Products which produced StarCaps. This stuff was not being sold in any back alley out of a pickup truck with out of state tags. They are diet pills.

It doesn’t matter what the steroids policy says if it violates state law.

Sometimes you don’t get justice, but you need to stand up for it. No evidence has ever been produced showing the Williamses ever took steroids. Does it sound like justice that they be punished to the same extent as those who do?

Phat Pat is not called that because he looks like a raging ’roids monster. He was trying to make weight, not beat the steroids testing.

Whoever leaked the butenamide test results last year broke the confidentiality the NFL steroids policy states is guaranteed until the league makes its review on cases. At least nine players have tested positive in the past for butenamide and not been suspended. The NFL originally discovered StarCaps secretly contained butenamide years ago through player blood testing, but kept it quiet. If the Williamses had taken tainted Tylenol, would everyone assume they were trying to commit suicide? The NFL sat on their discovery that StarCaps contained an unlisted ingredient, even an ingredient the NFL banned, putting not just the Williamses but the general public at risk. The problem is, there is no law that says the NFL had to protect the health and safety of people they proudly claim that they are doing, so the CBA is not invalidated by any federal law, but if it violates state law, the contract cannot be enforced. An agreement to perform illegal acts is never a valid contract under law.

When the news of the butenamide test results broke, violating the confidentiality the league policy, the NFL panicked and tried to look tough in the press. The problem is, like other responsibilities in the agreement, the players are demanded by it to enforce confidentiality. How fair is an agreement where all the burden is on one side? With their reputation on the line, the NFL went ahead with suspensions. Now they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They forgot about the Bill of Rights and state laws.

Don’t sit on your behind. Back the Wall!

by Elgar on May 26, 2009 3:15 PM CDT reply actions  

You lost me here:

Minnesota law is not some nagging detail that does not apply to large corporations. Goodell’s limo is not free to drive at 100 mph through Minnesota. The car does not have diplomatic tags on the rear. The NFL is not immune to Minnesota law.

You see, Goodell’s limo isn’t allowed to go 100 mph elsewhere. Now, if MN tried to reduce the speed limit on Interstate highways to 45, then Goodell still may be able to get away with 55+ lawfully if MN’s 45 mph speed limit was considered too limiting.

If the NFL adopted the Olympic standards for testing, would those standards be subjected to state-by-state variance? I doubt the courts want to set that precedent. Even in nations which do not outlaw steroids, their athletes must follow the Olympic policy in order to be eligible.

Of course, if MN law wins out, the quick and easy thing for Goodell and the Wilfs to do would be to relocate. We don’t want that, either.

I’ll back the Wall after they’ve served their suspensions and taken some responsibility for their desperate attempts to make weight by breaking another part of the rule (essentially trying to steal from the team/league by making weight artificially rather than diet/exercise).

by KC Viking on May 26, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

State Law vs Federal Law
You see, Goodell’s limo isn’t allowed to go 100 mph elsewhere. Now, if MN tried to reduce the speed limit on Interstate highways to 45, then Goodell still may be able to get away with 55+ lawfully if MN’s 45 mph speed limit was considered too limiting.

Reference the Constitution, in particular the Bill of Rights, Amendments IX and X. Bottom line is that the Fed has zero legal jurisdiction over the speed limits in Minnesota, and that unless specifically noted in the Constitution, State law supercedes Federal law. Of course, the Fed has a traditional way of getting around that (other than civil war), by threatening to withhold Federal programs and grants contingent on the State submission to Federal dictate.

The states are not in any way, shape, or form, obligated to do anything the NFL dictates to them. The NFL can withdraw it’s franchise, and that’s about it. As far as I know, the NFL has not adopted Olympic standards on anything, but please let me know if I’m wrong on that; that would be a very interesting development!

The Wall has not been convicted of any wrong-doing yet, and in Minnesota, as well as the rest of the USA, they’re innocent until that happens, regardless of what the ‘court of public opinion’ has to say on the matter.

by DCPurple on May 27, 2009 6:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Speed limit

…is a matter of federal law, at least since 1973. Remember the 55 mph federal speed limit? In 1995, federal legislation gave the states the right to set their own speed limits. That federal law could always be repealed to take back federal regulation of speed limits. Regarding employment and testing, there are many federal laws to consider on those matters, and I’m not a lawyer.

Of course the fed and/or states are not obligated to do anything the NFL dictates to them, but the NFL and similar leagues require the ability to operate their franchises in multiple states with one set of rules and regulations, much like the Olympics. I want the NFL to adopt Olympic standards, but it would be pointless if each state could then override it and allow pot in CA, steroids in TX (<——— how everything got bigger there anyway), etc.

The Wall hasn’t been accused of anything criminal, but they’ve basically admitted that they used it and are crying ignorance despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. They were told many times, so they can only be irresponsibly rather than innocently ignorant at best and flat-out lying about it at worst.

by KC Viking on May 29, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

One More Time, Slowly

“Elsewhere” has no bearing in this. This is Minnesota, not the Land of Oz or NFLville.

Bill of Rights = Part of U. S. Constitution

U. S. Constitution trumps NFL steroids policy

NFL Steroids policy does not meet the requirements of Minnesota state laws.

Constitution guarantees states the right to pass those laws not forbidden them by Constitution.

Pat and Kevin Williams are Minnesota employees, work under Minnesota state law.

If you think Olympic standards trump U. S. law, in the U. S. A., read up. The NFL is not in the Olympics, they are in Minnesota.

The Williams Wall will never serve suspensions, because they are protected by the same Bill of Rights that enables us to blog.

by Elgar on May 26, 2009 4:23 PM CDT reply actions  

+1000

You’d think that more folks would take the time to read the foundation document that determines and ensures what they’re allowed to do.

by DCPurple on May 27, 2009 6:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Federal laws, DOL, and the Supreme Court, too.

I know about the Constitution and Bill of Rights, thank you. You have apparently forgotten that there are all kinds of federal laws, regulatory agencies (including, but not limited to, the US Department of Labor among others) and Supreme Court cases which have provided federal guidelines for things not specified in the Constitution (and therefore are not necessarily under the sole authority of the states).

I don’t think Olympic standards necessarily trump US law, but our Olympic athletes are expected to adhere to their standards no matter which state they live in, and they do so at will. I hadn’t heard about Minnesota (or any other state) being a hotbed to train for Olympic events without actually following the rules, and I hope that day never comes (here or abroad). The NFL’s polcies should be handled with similar uniformity, most likely by the fact that NFL players are at will employees who agreed to sign very specific contracts (and enjoyed unionized benefits plus a nice wage which offers them more freedom than 99% of Americans).

The Williams Wall may or may not serve suspensions because this is more complicated than your limited understanding of government and law. Suggesting that the US Constitution was intended to protect those who cheat on employee evaluations (essentially grand theft) and possibly lie about it (perjury) or to say that it entitles any at will employee to circumvent all possible consequences of his behavior which clearly violated his contract is absolutely unpatriotic, and such a precedent would be most irresponsible. The real purpose of our Constitutional democracy is to protect law-abiding citizens and pursuits of happiness (including businesses), and a ruling in favor of the Williamses would be a devastating blow to all businesses whose at will employees agreed to however many terms and workplace standards. The Williamses are indeed protected by the Constitution and Bill of Rights since they offer various protections for people who have been convicted of wrongdoing, though.

by KC Viking on May 29, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

..and

Moving out of state will not help the NFL on things which were done in Minnesota in the past, and more than the James Gang suceeded by trying to ride out of Northfield following the bank robbery.

Maybe going to Brazil and seeking assylum there would, but I doubt Goodell plans to do that, since many of the fans reside here, and that’s were his cash flow originates.

by Elgar on May 26, 2009 4:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Party in Rio, baby!

Can you imagine season ticks to the home games, lol?! The tailgate parties would make the “Love Boat” incident look like child’s play!

by DCPurple on May 27, 2009 6:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Really? MN law will prevail?

Ok – I understand the basic “theory” you are providing here (although I fell asleep at least once trying to get through all the homer-ness along with it…) – but I wonder a couple things:
1. Were this not your Vikings – would you be so adamant about their “innocence”? Seems to me that maybe a little bit of a home-town/fan bias here in the response(s).
2. I could very well be wrong – but I would guess that signing a contract or agreeing in principle to doing a certain thing – even if it is “against MN law” – entails that if you do that thing – you are guilty. For example: If I am a youth counselor and agree as part of my job/contract, that I will not drink/do drugs, etc., and later have an accident and am found to have THC in my system from smoking marijuana – that I am allowed, by MN law, to keep my job? I’d GUESS (and not being a lawyer – I don’t obviously know) – but signing a contract or being part of a group (Player’s Union in this case) where rules are set forth governing the actions of players/individuals – that if those rules are violated – you are guilty – regardless of the laws that happen to be in place in the state where the team is located.

I’m a Vikings fan and wish that this never had happened and agree to some extent on some of the items listed above (about Star Caps being legal, etc.) – what I don’t agree with and am frankly quite annoyed by – is the idea that you can try to get away with doing something by claiming that regardless of what you signed or agreed to – if it “violates MN (or any state) law” – then there should be no punishment… This “case” is messed up to start with from the top down, there’s no question about that, but to think, hope and pray that the state laws of MN are going to outweigh signed work agreements opens up a whole new Pandora’s Box of issues that shouldn’t even be unlocked – much less opened…

My 2 cents – GO VIKES!!!!!!!!!!

by Keepin' It Real! on May 26, 2009 5:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Responses

1. What home town? I now live in California. I was born near Cleveland, Ohio. I own a Cardiac Kids Cleveland Browns hand authographed NFL game ball. I sat on benches when the Foxborough stadium was a dump and the Pats were so bad that the fans mostly drank. I rooted for Brett Favre as a Falcon rookie when I lived in Georgia. I don’t care who’s team is being gored. I can’t help the New Orleans Saints, because Minnesota law does not apply to them. If the NFL is actually running the NFL, I expect them to obey the laws, not just do whatever is most convenient for themselves. If they dupe the union into signing agreements assigning the players responsible for for protecting the confidentiality of drug tests, then that is on the NFLPA.

The founders of this country did not write the Tenth Amendment just for football players. If millionaires cannot get justice in this country, how do you think the rest of us will fare in court?

2, The point here is that what the Williamses did is not illegal. They have broken no state or federal law. They have only been selected for punishment under a collective bargaining agreement policy. However, no such contractual agreement is valid which involves illegal acts. A clause in a union agreement saying your agree to be punished by death is void where prohibited by law, which is a quite obvious case that happens to be true in all states.

In Minnesota, employees cannot be punished based on one drug test or banned from taking legal products on their own time unless it interferes with doing their job or is a conflict of interest. Since the Williamses were not impaired by losing weight; it did not ruin their job performance. Since the pills were not being supplied by the Packers or the XFL or some gambling casino, there was no conflict of interest to the NFL.

The law cannot be ignored just for convenience sake.

Here is why I am writing these things: If someone put something in your vitamins that poisons you, you are not going to feel you were responsible for what you put in your body. The NFL has not suspended everyone who has tested positive for butenamide. The NFL did this because testing confidentiality was broken, and they wanted to look tough. If they cannot deal with the business and legal consequences of what they do, maybe they should get into a simpler business that does not make as much money.

by Elgar on May 26, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m kind of conflicted as to taking this case into Minnesota Court. On the one hand, assuming the Williamses win, I will be overjoyed. On the other, this opens up a huuuuge can of worms for future suspensions.

by Frost on May 26, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can of Worms?

Sure, and the NFL lawyers will start talking in court about the Commerce Clause in the Constitution, but our country is about more than trade. It is about human rights.

The preamble starts "We, the People…" not " we, the fat cat corporations". I’d fight them all the way to the U. S. Supreme Court if necessary.

If we start just discarding parts of the Bill of Rights which annoy big companies without even properly amending the Constitution under the process which was established for us by the founders, then what is our American government and justice system really worth? For what did all those people whom we remember on Memorial Day die?

Do we just roll over and allow them to take our rights away from us which so many people have died defending without even lifting a finger for ourselves? What kind of lazy cowards are we? I’d say protecting our rights from fading away is worth taking on a few cans of worms now and then. Others have endured far more for liberty. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

This is about far more than who took diet pills. I choose doing what is right over doing what is easiest for wealthy enterprises.

No punishment without due process under law.

by Elgar on May 27, 2009 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1
What kind of lazy cowards are we?

bravo! 100% agreement!

by iseepurplepeople on May 27, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not about human rights or even the Bill of Rights

It’s about whether a business (essentially a “pursuit of happiness”) which hires some of the best paid unionized workers in the world can reasonably enforce an at will contract.

Due process is a term which is mostly used for criminal cases, not everyday disciplinary things. I suppose that no student should be suspended from school if the NFL is in the wrong? No employee could be suspended from work? Really?

The primary purpose of the Bill of Rights is primarily to protect law-abiding citizens and businesses. Nobody died so that some 360-pound multimillionaire (talk about fat cat) could lie his way into stealing even more money from his employer and end up being rewarded for a breach of his contract. How could any business function after such a ruling, especially this one?

Also, it’s not a matter of whether the Williamses win at this stage, but rather what the final ruling is. Unless the Williamses are dismissed/denied, we may be 2 rulings away.

by KC Viking on May 29, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

2. You are wrong about that.

Federal guidelines do exist for drug testing in certain industries (transportation, for instance). By those laws, a bus driver who consumed enough alcohol off premises while off duty to still be inebriated at the beginning of his shift can and should be suspended (in the case of the DOT, they have a “return-to-duty process” which is more or less a suspension).

by KC Viking on May 29, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Law's the Law

If a contract violates the law, it’s not valid. Doesn’t matter who’s contract it is, it’s an illegal contract and won’t be upheld in court. Sure, people can enter into those agreements, but there’s a law that specifically forbids a practice, that contract does not trump state or federal law.

If it weren’t the Vikings involved, personally, I wouldn’t even be aware of it because the Vikings are the only team I follow, in any sport. Not that I wouldn’t care, the principle is the same, and if members of one team can be screwed, so can members of the next team. Am I biased in favor of the Vikes? Um, yes. I’m a Vikings fan. That doesn’t disqualify me to be objective when considering a situation. The Vikes aren’t always in the right, but neither are they always in the wrong.

The Wall may very well turn out to be guilty, that’s for a court to decide and I suspect they’re going to have better info on the entire situation, than we have. However, until that happens… the Wall is innocent of any crime. We’re a nation of laws, regardless of what the media-driven mob imagines.

by DCPurple on May 27, 2009 6:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I read the news today, oh boy...

I love those NFL’s lawyers. One day they pronounce they’ve won the case and the judge has sided with them, proving their steriods policy is saving lives. The next day, they announce that they are appealing the same judge’s decision, because he doesn’t understand the law. Make up your minds! Is this judge brilliant or what? They’re beginning to make me understand why they want to punish the innocent.

by Elgar on May 27, 2009 6:19 PM CDT reply actions  

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