Pat Williams: #4 until Tarvaris Jackson works more

by KC Viking on May 26, 2009 1:17 PM CDT Comment 25 comments

Pat Williams is quoted in this article from Fox Sports which seems to jive perfectly with my impressions after reading this article from the Star Tribune: Tarvaris Jackson is a 2nd QB in the NFL who is training for a 2nd career in MMA.

I'm aware that the MMA article specifically states that Jackson is not training for a second career. The article mentions Jared Allen's transformation from stiff white guy to one who can move, so I can't argue that training JA in MMA was anything less than a great move. However, I do not understand how MMA could help Jackson's low completion percentage and accuracy or improve his ability to read defenses and look off defenders or fumble less often or hone his scrambling instincts and pocket presence. His hip work cannot have been the #1 problem that has been holding him back against opponents not named the Cardinals or Falcons who played their starters against Jackson and actually managed to win at least 1 game in a given season. Show me one other QB in the history of the game whose accuracy, consistency, production, and efficiency all improved because he worked out his hips in the offseason, and then I'll consider changing my mind.

Nor will MMA, ballet, or other gimmicky exercises win over his teammates. I doubt this is the kind of work that Pat Williams had in mind when he dished about preferring Brett Favre over Tarvaris Jackson recently:

Williams said he recently sent a text message to Brett Favre telling the quarterback that he would be welcome in Minnesota if he decides to come out of retirement. "I told him if he comes we will open our arms to you and if you don't we understand," Williams said. "He's a Hall of Famer and no one can take that from him. He's still one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play." Williams also offered an interesting take on Vikings quarterback Tarvaris Jackson, who is trying to stave off Sage Rosenfels and keep his starting job. "I talk to Tarvaris all the time (and) tell him you have to put in the time," Williams said. "This ain't college no more. This is the NFL. You have to put in more time than you are used to putting in. If you are putting in four hours, you have to put in eight. You have to put in more time than what he's doing. I think if he puts the right time in, he will be a great quarterback in the league."

An extensive Google search found many instances of Tarvaris talking about how hard he works and occasionally receiving extra reps assigned by Childress, but perhaps Pat Williams was referring to statements like this recent gem:

"...just confidence. If I mess up, I’m going to mess up – not just try not to mess up. That really prohibits me..."

Perhaps he could simplify things a bit and just try not to mess up instead? And work on NFL stuff more and MMA less?

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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You're right

His time will be better spent training on football. This MMA stuff is BS. Tarvaris has the talent, but it is disappointing he is training for a 2nd career.

I can outrun a mule deer.

by Gonzo2 on May 26, 2009 3:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It doesn’t make me feel any better about Bevell, either, since he seemed to be endorsing the idea.

I had the feeling that whenever “long-term” was mentioned, it was a generous way of saying, [Tarvaris Jackson is not going to get any better anytime soon].

by KC Viking on May 26, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It would make me feel worse about Bevell, but it isn’t possible because I ultimately cannot feel any worse about him.

I can outrun a mule deer.

by Gonzo2 on May 26, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't the MMA stuff debunked as a rumor anyhow?

Besides, even if he was training in MMA that does NOT mean he is training for a 2nd career. Ever hear of Cross-Training?

Any solid MMA training is going to make you a better athlete overall. Much of the focus is on footwork and core strength, as well as building confidence and persistence. Those are things that I like to see in quarterbacks.

You don’t hear about Offensive/Defensive linemen training in Wing Chun Kung Fu, but they do it all the time. The trapping and Chi Sao drills are very useful when trying to break blocks and get leverage on your opponent.

by Bjorno on May 27, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

MMA

Linemen working out with various martial arts makes perfect sense, and I knew about that. The point was that MMA or any martial art is NOT very helpful for a QB, especially Tarvaris Jackson. If TJ is genuinely spending any amount of time with MMA training in the next 2 years, then that would be exactly what Pat Williams is talking about (perhaps working hard, but not on things that matter, and then not spending the extra time on things that actually matter, and not having any more time to spend on maximizing his progress) and it may as well be so that he can try it out as a 2nd career.

Of course I’m familiar with cross-training. Unless you’re suggesting that Tarvaris Jackson’s #1 issue is a lack of agility and quickness, why do you think this would be a good idea at all?

by KC Viking on May 29, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

THANK YOU "FAT PAT"

Finally some body really speak the truth. I think sage will win the job. If Brett dose not come out. thank you

by vikefansd on May 28, 2009 3:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That last comment about messing up means he needs to stop playing scared.

You can’t focus on not making mistakes, you have to focus on doing what you’re doing. If you think about the mistakes too much they’ll drag you down, as we’ve seen him do in the past.

If a baseball player went up to bat every time thinking “Don’t pop up. Don’t pop up. Don’t pop up.” he’s not going to be able to hit well. He’s not focusing on getting a hit and doing the right thing, he’s thinking about not doing the wrong thing. Then if he does do the wrong thing, he starts to obsess about not doing that again. Then it snowballs.

by Cobra312004 on May 28, 2009 3:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Consciously avoiding mistakes is a good idea

A baseball player puts a lot of thought into avoiding a pop-up or strikeout by refining his swing and focusing on making contact closer to the center of the ball, watching his progress on tape, and listening to his hitting coach, and spending enough time on these things before the next game so that he isn’t thinking about it then. But if said ballplayer spent a large share of his game prep time learning ballet or XGames motocross or lacrosse, then he almost certainly wouldn’t have the “extra” time to work on hitting fewer pop-ups well enough to not have to think about it during a game.

by KC Viking on May 29, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmmm......

…someone who can’t make weight naturally (without the use of pills) thru hard work is questioning anothers work ethic? Maybe Phat should look in the mirror before spouting off to the media.

by KC612 on May 28, 2009 8:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

ironic isn't it?

and valid as well but i’m sure his heart is in the right place.

by iseepurplepeople on May 28, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just because he used starcaps does not mean he could not make weight without them.

Let me ask you a question.

You are an NFL defensive lineman and your bread and butter is your ability to break blocks and get to the ball carrier.

Which do you focus more on when training? Technique, strength and the playbook; or your weight limit?

Personally, I would spend as much time as I could on things that would directly affect my ability to do my job, and worry about the weight limit after the fact. Why waste precious time doing extra cardio, when you can get to your target weight with a little supplement?

Is that any different than taking Creatine, Whey protein or other such muscle building supplements?

By your logic, anyone who uses supplements to help them train has poor work ethic.

by Bjorno on May 28, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He took the lazy way out....

…and his words don’t carry much water when talking about work ethic. Not to mention Pat was on the PUP list at the begining of last season not Jackson.

by KC612 on May 28, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still don't get this "lazy way"

Again, by that logic taking VITAMINS is lazy.

by Bjorno on May 28, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not the same

Vitamins aren’t a quick fix for anything, and they are legal. StarCaps are a quick weight loss diuretic to help overweight players get their bonus money when they hadn’t really achieved the goals specified in their contracts…unless they are caught.

by KC Viking on May 29, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think it is the lazy way out. He probably eats right and obviously works out enough. Some folks are just big due to hereditary reasons.

I guarantee that this “lazy” guy works out more in a week than you and I put together, in a year.

by Lofoten on May 28, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We’re in 100% agreement that he probably works out a ton, and he may even give 100% effort in all workouts. He must be taking in a few hundred extra calories on a daily basis, though. “Big for genetic reasons” is still less than Pat’s weight, and as a professional athlete, he is definitely getting enough exercise opportunities to have maintained something below the weight specified in his contract.

by KC Viking on May 29, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's just the visual

i take it as ironically funny. all your points are valid bjorno and i agree with you but come on….picture it…a big ole chunky lineman telling a very athletic qb to work harder?

by iseepurplepeople on May 28, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

It is funny to see Phat Pat say “Work harder Tjack” while he gnaws on a rack of ribs.

But we are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to work requirements.

I think Pat’s point was the great QB’s he has seen always put more work in than anyone else on the team. Kind of a first to show up, last to leave kind of thing.

by Bjorno on May 28, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Pat has been through the grinder and put in the time and work, so he has a strong soapbox to speak from, now that he is at the end of his career.

by Lofoten on May 28, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh...

You would need a concrete reinforced soapbox to handle him.

by Bjorno on May 28, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lol

aint that the truth.

by Lofoten on May 28, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Weight clauses in contracts.

I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that players agreed not to take last minute diet pills/diuretics to make weight. Now I suppose cheating isn’t the same as being lazy, but he still shouldn’t be calling out a teammate thru the media when he himself reported to training camp out of shape and had to be placed on the PUP list.

by KC612 on May 28, 2009 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I get the point

But nobody is complaining about Pat’s performance on the field, and his job is not in jeopardy.

Hypocritical, yes. Wrong, Probably not.

by Bjorno on May 28, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure it is even hypocritical. He backs TJax and knows that something needs to inspire the kid to push himself to the next level. Coming from someone that he really respects, because he sees his hard work, day in-day out, means alot more than just having the media or a coach say something. It’s little things like this that become the turning point for some youngsters (soon to be superstars). The old passing on blatant truth in a way that only works between them.

by Lofoten on May 28, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If every lineman and LB activated their weight bonus by cheating, that would be enough to pay 1-3 helpful free agents. Nobody should complain about Pat Williams’s performance, but it could have been better. Other DTs had more than 1 sack, and he’s had more in a season before, too. There is no question in any sane mind that Pat Williams would be even more effective now and more useful for more years if he could manage his weight better (without StarCaps, since that doesn’t really count).

by KC Viking on May 29, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs