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Wednesday's Notebook: Why the Favrephobia?

Favregeddon Turns Into Favrephobia

I mentioned this story on Tuesday night but was surprised to see it buried on the Strib's website and receiving only scattered attention elsewhere.  According to Rasmussen Reports, only 29% of Minnesotans feel that signing Favre is a good idea for the Vikings, while 42% think it's a bad idea and the rest aren't sure.  What I found even more surprising is that 44% would be less likely to support public financing for a new Vikings stadium if the team inked Favre -- and for only 7% of those polled, the acquisition of Favre would make them more likely to support a stadium bill.

I don't get it.  For one, I'm stunned that a hypothetical signing of Favre has such an impact on the team's public support for a new stadium.  No, publicly financing a new stadium has never been terribly popular and probably isn't becoming any more popular, but it's surprising that bringing a single player into the mix could apparently threaten to cause so much political damage for a team that's spent years struggling for a stadium.

One possibility is that those being polled simply disapprove of the Packers organization rather than the player -- that is, they think signing Favre is a bad idea because they don't like the Packers.  Maybe they think Favre is too old to contribute.  Maybe they see the media circus surrounding Favre and think he'd be a distraction.

And that's just trying to explain the disapproval of the Vikings fans who were polled -- there's a good amount of Packer Backers in Minnesota and it's easy to see why'd they disapprove of Favre signing with the Vikes.  That could be another factor contributing to the surprising poll numbers.

Moving on, I'll catch you after the jump for some talk about ESPN's preseason power rakings, a Percy Harvin interview, what Pat Williams thinks about Tarvaris Jackson, and the latest on the Williams Wall lawsuit.

Star-divide

Stuck in the Middle

ESPN's first power rankings of the new season are out, and The Worldwide Leader placed the Vikings in 14th -- with the Bears two spots ahead of them at #12, the Packers trailing at #17, and the Lions obviously in dead last.  Here's Kevin Seifert's blurb on the Vikings from the article:

Subject to change based on the Vikings' pursuit of Brett Favre. Without him, they have the same major question -- quarterback.

A decent ranking, and yes, with all the unknowns this team has at the quarterback position right now, I can reluctantly understand why ESPN put the Vikes behind the Bears in the rankings.  As Seifert himself suggested, the addition of Favre would be good for a decent boost in the rankings and should unquestionably put them above Chicago.

Phat Pat to T-Jack: Work Harder!

You've gotta love this news, because it's something we've been waiting for and something that will be good for the team.  I'm talking about a respected veteran stepping up and calling out Tarvaris Jackson.

The support expressed, at least in public, for T-Jack by members of the team has been admirable.  When you've got a young quarterback leading the charge for your team, it's nearly impossible to prevent some frustration from leaking out into the press -- but this group of guys has been exceptionally good about supporting Tarvaris.

Still, I don't mind one bit the quote Pat Williams recently gave to Sirius NFL Radio about the young quarterback:

“I talk to Tarvaris all the time (and) tell him you have to put in the time,” Williams said. “This ain’t college no more. This is the NFL. You have to put in more time than you are used to putting in. If you are putting in four hours, you have to put in eight. You have to put in more time than what he’s doing. I think if he puts the right time in, he will be a great quarterback in the league.”

It's been one of the aggravating parts of watching Tarvaris: You know the physical tools are there, as he can be very elusive when under pressure and has an outstanding arm, but there are lots of technical kinks in his game that have held him back.  I think it's perfectly reasonable to wonder if he's been putting the time in to work these kinks out of his game -- and if he hasn't been putting enough time in, he needs to be called out. 

Phat Pat's absolutely on-target: Doing the work to fine tune his game is what now stands between Tarvaris and his ability to become a legitimate starting quarterback in the NFL.  He has the raw skill but not the polish.

So I'm glad Pat spoke up about this -- although Tarvaris has been given support in the past from his teammates, we're well past the point of handing him with kid gloves.  He's got a lot of work ahead of him, and he needs to realize that.

On another note, I loved this comment from the article:

By the way, when a relatively old, and relatively fat guy on your team is calling you out for lazines…well, that’s gotta sting a little.

Hey now!  Yeah, it's somewhat ironic that a guy who looks like this is telling T-Jack to shape up, but Young Jackson's gotta respect his elders!

Percy Harvin: Seriously, I'm not Evil

Mr. Harvin has already convinced Chilly that he's actually an OK guy, but what about the rest of us?  Well, he had a word for us in an interview with Bob Sansevere:

When you read stuff about me, you'd think I'm always evil. But I'm actually kind of a goofy person. I'm a real outgoing person.

Regrets? Just in my past. Just in the way I handled things. I always shouted and yelled, and even though I was right, I didn't go about it the right way. If I learned that at a younger age, a lot of my problems wouldn't have occurred.

Easy, Percy...no one's accusing you of being an accomplice to this guy or anything.  We just want to make sure you'll stay somewhat out-of-trouble.  No, you're not expected to be an altar boy...you're just expected to avoid being a distraction to the team while providing a positive influence in the locker room.

That's why I think speculation about "character concerns" in players often gets overblown.  Not just because players' personal lives are under more scrutiny than ever, but because we're really not asking much from them.  Don't do anything too stupid while off the field and do your job while on the field.  To read this interview and claim Harvin is somehow a "bad" guy would be absurd -- he just needs a little guidance, and I'm sure that will be provided.

League Appeals Williams Wall Case

As you know by now, a federal judge dismissed all but two of the Williams Wall's claims against the NFL -- with those two claims now heading to state court.  The league obviously wasn't pleased with the continuation of this case in a new arena and has appealed the decision:

In Tuesday's filing, attorneys for the NFL said they will ask the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals to review whether Magnuson misapplied federal law when he didn't dismiss those two claims outright.

There you have it...another twist in this saga.  The Williamses have a case that's absolutely worth pursuing, but dang, it's hard to see an end in sight to this.

0 recs  |  Comment 29 comments |

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There’s so many hidden factors to that poll. I want to know how they did it. Was it online? Could people vote multiple times? Was it a mail in poll? People may not have just bothered. Call in poll? Again, people might not have even bothered with it. I’m also wondering what the sample size was. I live in Minnesota, and I certainly didn’t get asked to contribute in the poll. Did they only ask in the more heavily populated areas?

So it’d take the number they projected with a grain of salt. In reality, I’d assume that it’s really more in the 50/50 range

by Frost on May 27, 2009 7:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why are the VIkings building a new stadium?

whats wrong with HHH dome

Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!

by ifuwannacrownem on May 27, 2009 7:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Lease runs out in 2011 and it’s out-dated.

In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.

by FarvaForTheVikings on May 27, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Outdated?

Soldier Fields been up since 1924!!! Outdated…

Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!

by ifuwannacrownem on May 27, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I’ve personally never been there, but the general consensus seems to be that it’s outdated, doesn’t provide a very good fan experience, and doesn’t make the team a whole lot of money.

In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.

by FarvaForTheVikings on May 27, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve been to both places. The Soldiers Field da Bears are now playing in is Soldiers Field II, not the 1924 original. If you need to use the restroom at half time at the Dome, you should plan to miss the third quarter. If they opened all the doors on the Dome after the game ended, the roof would collapse. The dome doesn’t have enough luxury suites where Zygi can soak the rich and get back the money he invests in a Jared Allen or a Favre so the team is actually worth watching.

by Elgar on May 27, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That and it sucked since day 1. They cut corners and made the cheapest stadium they could. The Metrodome makes the least amount of money of any stadium in the league, despite selling out for 11 years.

by Cobra312004 on May 28, 2009 3:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pat calling out Tarvaris is a great thing!

Pat has credibility with T-Jack (or at least should). He has always been behind the kid saying it was his team and he will lead them. It all took place around last year’s summer of Favre, so this shouldn’t be blown off.

We heard out of college what a gym rat and hard worker Tarvaris was, and now with even more determination he needs to put in that all out effort “8 hours a day” to be the best again. Thank you Pat for saying this when it should be said.

It may take a village to raise a child, but it takes a Viking to raze a village.

by Luft Krigare on May 27, 2009 7:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Is it surprising?

That this “poll” showed that people do not want Favre? He’s a Packer legend, he’s going to be 40 for the majority of the season, and he has an undeniable penchant for late year collapses. Even if this surgery lets him throw with no discomfort, the past few years, and there are statistics to back this up, show that Favre has had some pretty major final game slides that have doomed his teams. Granted, most QBs have problems late in the year, but Favre throws interceptions fairly regularly anyway, so when he collapses, he really collapses.

I think a lot of people just don’t see him as much of an upgrade, if at all.

And the poll itself was a very, very small portion of Minnesota without giving us any background as to where it was done, to who it was done, what kind of fan they were, etc. So it’s just kind of dumb anyway. Don’t put too much into it, whether you want the old bastard or not.

Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com

Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!

by Manimal on May 27, 2009 8:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think a lot of people just don’t see him as much of an upgrade, if at all.

/raises hand

In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.

by FarvaForTheVikings on May 27, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Upgrade?

Even if he was, would all the distractions of the media circus be worth it? I personally don’t think so.

by Duluth Viking on May 27, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I agree with that sentiment.

In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.

by FarvaForTheVikings on May 27, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're right

The average person in Minnesota is not going to have an idea about whether or not Favre is an upgrade or not. I would assume at least 40% or so don’t even watch football. Being from St. Paul, I know how a lot of people feel about football up there. Some could care less, a lot are VERY casual fans that might watch a game or two all season, and then there is a core of die-hard fans. Take that same poll on this site and I bet you get real different results, despite the fact that there is a core of Favre haters here.

by newmexvike on May 27, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On Percy Harvin

When I watched the lead up to the draft, ESPN’s draft coverage, and the reaction to him missing the rookie OTAs, hell… The mainstream media sure as hell thought he was evil. It was almost like falling back in time into Refer Madness, marijuana being the most evil and vile thing ever seen by man! And anyone who smoked it? The devil!

While I do not use the drug, and I am by no means condoning its use, I know plenty of people who have done it/do it. They are far from evil. Yes, Percy chose to smoke at the worst possible time, but that just makes him a little on the stupid side, not evil. I completely understand where he’s coming from with his comment. The mainstream media has been salivating, waiting for him to explode, smoke tons of dope and pull a Ricky Williams/Dave Chappel. They want to make him into a villain. I feel bad for the kid. But I am glad that he is putting all of that crap behind him and just working as hard as possible at camp to prove all of his detractors wrong.

by Eric The Viking on May 27, 2009 8:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good points

The media makes money selling advertising. Advertising means you need to get people’s attention. Writing stories that may not even be true but yet give people a target to whom they can feel themselves superior gets some attention. Media can expose the truth or deal in trash. It all depends on their motivations and what they decide to do. Dog bites man is not news. Man bites dog, that will get someone’s attention.

by Elgar on May 27, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

GREAT POST!

another reason we should all HATE the media even more than we already do!!!

by shift47_brada on May 27, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But not as much as I hate Brett Favre.

In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.

by FarvaForTheVikings on May 27, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't put too much stock

in the Rassmussen poll. I have found that the results of their polls tend to be skewed towards a certain political point of view. and it is easy to skew poll results with either sample size, sample geography or wording of the questions, or some combination of all three makes it easy to manipulate the results of a poll.

I can’t possibly believe that signing Favre would have any impact on peoples willingness to push their rep’s to vote for or against a vikings stadium beyond 1 or 2%.

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on May 27, 2009 9:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Mark Twain once noted that Disreali had said there are three kinds of liars: liars, damn liars, and statisticians. Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure. Frame the questions with a certain slant and the figures lean to give misleading results. The clock is ticking. Zygi needs a stadium that generates more cash from the rich. Patience is not an option. The people who have their homes foreclosed don’t want to move either.

by Elgar on May 27, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How can anyone even begin to argue that Favre isn't an upgrade?

If Jackson instilled any confidence in his coaches (who unlike us, see him practice and work ever day) that he could get the job done, they would have never gotten Rosenfels. And how much are we to expect from a journeyman career backup who was obtained for a lowly fourth round pick? Favre throwing left-handed is a step up from those two gentlemen.

Forget who he played for and the “media circus” (also known as national publicity, which I’m aware that Vikings fans are unfamiliar with) and think about what he would do for the offense. Consider what players like Ryan Grant, Dorsey Levens, and Donald Driver have been able to accomplish because of Favre and then place the names Adrian Peterson, Bernard Berrian, and Percy Harvin in their place.

Do we want to excel and win playoff games and championships or be also-rans who never quite get it done?

by Bodysuit Man on May 27, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

rosenfels

the rosenfels acquisition has been completely overblown. you don’t acquire a starting qb for a fourth round pick unless you get lucky in the draft. you trade a fourth round pick for a veteran backup qb which is exactly what the vikings did. yes, i know the ‘competition’ for the starting job and all that but what else are the vikings going to say? they don’t have a firmly entrenched franchise qb and probably enticed sage with promises of an opportunity. tj is our current starter. his job is as safe as any other starting qb in the league. i.e. if he tanks he sits same as manning, brady, etc… his leash may be shorter than some others but the collar extends all the way around his neck just like everyone else.

as for favre, he didn’t win his only superbowl. i saw 10 other guys on field with him everytime the packers had the ball. he was a the team that won a superbowl but he wasn’t alone. and that was 13 years ago! i’ve never been a favre fan and not just because he played with his cheese. i’ve always thought he was overrated. for every great play he has made (and yes he has made many) i can show you a completely bone headed play (and yes he has many). he used to be able to get away with that stuff through sheer talent and surrounding talent. he can’t do that any more regardless of his surrounding talent. when favre drops back to go deep, #28 can’t help him make the throw and can’t make sure the throw is accurate. favre is on his own in those circumstances and over the last five years or so he degenerates as the season progresses.

i’ll take my chances with tj.

by iseepurplepeople on May 27, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jackson and Rosie

Rosenfels was brought in, not because the coaches don’t have faith in Jackson, but as insurance. Last year they put their faith in Jackson and when he struggled early, had no real back up plan. Frerotte did his best but was not really up to the task of being a starting QB anymore.

Enter Rosenfels. He will push Jackson for the starting job. If Jackson struggles again we now have a quarterback we didn’t have to coax out of retirement to back him up. With Pat calling him out, look for Jackson to redouble his already considerable efforts (whatever Pat says, I know Jackson works as hard as anyone on this team) and really get down to business. There is always room for improvement for everyone.

Favre’s daughters have better arms than he does now. Let Jackson and Rosenfels battle it out for the starting nod. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

by Cobra312004 on May 28, 2009 3:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could go either way....

on the Favre to the Vikings debate. When the story first broke about a month ago that Chilly was going to visit with him, I was excited that it looked like Favre was heaed here. Then as it has dragged on and the injury issues have come up I have kind of grown tired of it and just want it to be over soon. When ESPN showed T-Jacks awesome numbers over his last 5 games and Favres terrible numbers over his last 5, it also makes me worry. But I won’t be dissapointed if he signs, I just hope he signs soon and not right before preseason or during camp. If he stays retired I won’t be that dissapointed as I do see potential in the two QBs we have.

JT

by STLVikesFAN on May 27, 2009 12:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Favre

Go to the link below and you can flip through some of Favre’s start as a pro to see what a flop he was originally.

http://www.comcast.net/slideshow/sports-brettfavre/2/

However, the past is over. If he can’t throw now, he can’t play quarterback well, no matter how much he’s learned since then. If he gets his arm fixed, he can, but he apparently doesn’t want surgery, and a head coach needs to get his team ready during summer camp. Favre’s seen a lot, but the receivers need to learn Favre.

Just because Tarvaris and Sage aren’t stars yet does not prove they can’t be, and Bill Belichick is not going to arrive at your door and say here’s Tom Brady, I don’t want him and I simply love the Vikings. Life is about taking chances.

by Elgar on May 27, 2009 1:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Media Circus

Winning the SuperBowl brings a media circus as well, im pretty sure no one wants the either!
Bring Favre, the Media Circus, and watever else. If this veteran team cant handle this, they wont be able to handle the pressure of a deep post season run.

by LAviking on May 27, 2009 3:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Vikes Leaving...

I am just really starting to get worried that there is a very real chance of the Vikes moving. I just couldn’t imagine how lost we all would be if they actually did…. So Favre or no Favre I am for whatever. I just know the Vikes need to win and do well if they want to secure a future in Minnesota…

by shift47_brada on May 27, 2009 4:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

T-Jack's Work Ethic

For the last couple years we’ve been hearing about how hard T-Jack’s been working to get up to speed, how much extra time he puts in, the MMA, the special camps, the studying…

Now, suddenly, Phat Pat has to tell him that he needs to put in more time.

Which is it? T-Jack’s been working his tail off, or not? Hrmmmnnnn….

by DCPurple on May 28, 2009 7:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

light the fire!

reading between the lines, it sounds like pat’s just trying to light a fire under his butt.

by iseepurplepeople on May 28, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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