Thursday's Notebook: T-Jack Defends His Work Ethic
by Anthony21 on May 28, 2009 7:00 AM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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PrintT-Jack: I’ve Always Been a Hard Worker
As you may recall, Pat Williams made an appearance on Sirius NFL Radio earlier in the week and was clear in telling Tarvaris Jackson to work harder. A blunt message for his quarterback, but I thought it was an excellent comment by Phat Pat -- we know T-Jack has the physical tools to succeed in the NFL, but at this point, he desperately needs to polish his game and then polish it even more. Some fine tuning is certainly what the doctor ordered after too many rough technical edges emerged last year, which means lots of practice time.
On Wednesday, T-Jack responded to Pat's...criticism? I'm not sure I'd even call it that, but it was nevertheless a fair warning to the young quarterback about his work ethic. Here's how Action Jackson replied to the big fella's remarks:
“If we’re friends we’re going to keep it between us,” Jackson said. “He’s an older guy, he wants to win. I guess he went through his times growing up and [you] have to figure it out yourself. My first year, I had to figure it out. Now, I’ve pretty much figured it out. I’m studying more. I feel like I’m doing what I’ve got to do and that’s pretty much all I’ve got say. I’ve put the time in, like he said, maybe I do have to put extra time in. I guess when you’re not doing as well you’ve got to put the extra time in. But I feel like I’m working hard. I’ve always been a hard worker.”
Fair enough...I can imagine Tarvaris was caught off-guard by Phat Pat, but he was classy in his response. No reason for this to become a "thing" in the locker room, as long as they work out whatever their differences are.
Tarvaris has always struck me as someone at risk of becoming complacent. For a player Brad Childress has been essentially betting his head coaching career on, the fact that rough edges of T-Jack's game are still painfully apparent after three seasons and 19 starts makes the work ethic concerns legitimate and even somewhat believable. He made some really ugly mistakes last season, his junior year in the NFL.
So there you have it: A vow from Tarvaris Jackson to work harder. You buyin' it? I am, simply because of who delivered the wakeup call -- a respected veteran, someone who has proven himself through working hard and putting the extra time in, and a player you obviously shouldn't be messing around with.
Couple more tidbits after the jump -- an early look at the Madden 2010 player ratings, along with SI's backfield rankings and a quick Winfield update.
Madden 2010 Player Ratings: Battle for Bragging Rights
Yeah, the player ratings in the annual Madden NFL video game don't mean a whole lot, but they're great for bragging rights among players and they give us something to talk about. So...here's your link to the top 10 players by position in this year's Madden.
Three Vikings players made an appearance in these top 10s, with Adrian Peterson rated the top running back (97 overall rating), while Jared Allen (98 overall rating) is the fifth-best defensive player in the game and Kevin Williams (97 overall rating) is close behind as the seventh-best defensive player.
Adrian may have narrowly avoided doom by being passed up for this year's cover -- Troy Polamalu and Larry Fitzgerald are sharing the cover space -- but the pressure's definitely still on with that distinction of being the top-rated running back. The EA Sports folks were also more than fair in their representation of the Vikes' defensive line.
SI's Backfield Rankings: Vikings 16th in League
This one's a bit of a surprise -- Sports Illustrated ranked the NFL's quarterback-running back pairings, and despite the deadly running back tandem the Vikings have on the roster, SI still put the purple down at 16th in the league.
Who: QBs Tavaris Jackson, Sage Rosenfels; RB Adrian Peterson
Add/subtract: Drafting WR Percy Harvin adds a threat to keep defenses from locking on Peterson. Losing vet C Matt Birk takes experience away from OL.
Questionable: Brett Favre? And how much better will they really be with him anyway? He's 2-6 against the Lovie Smith Bears and he struggles with 3-4's, which the Packers will be playing. If Matt Stafford has a Matt Ryan-type rookie year, Favre arguably rates no better than the fourth-best QB in the division.
The Thought: The Vikes are still the AP Show and will be until their quarterback -- any quarterback -- is more than just a bit player.
My thought: It's absurd to rank the Cutler/Forte combination (#9) a notch below the Rodgers/Grant combination (#8). There's no comparison between Forte and Grant.
Anyway, the fact that the guy who wrote this article mispelled Tarvaris Jackson's name should tell you all you need to know about these rankings. Even with Peterson facing huge pressure up front, the Vikings still have one of the most dangerous backfields in the NFL -- and when Tarvaris Jackson is on-target, which he was at several points in the second half of last season, the backfield becomes even more dangerous.
By the way, "Favre arguably rates no better than the fourth-best QB in the division?" Really? Give me a break. As long as he's healthy and that arm's at full strength for week one, I'm not buying it.
Winfield Will Attend Mandatory Minicamp
Erin Henderson had some good news about Antoine Winfield on Wednesday. Things are at a standstill on the Winfield contract extension front, but Winny's still planning to attend the mandatory minicamp sessions this weekend:
Henderson told Paul Allen of KFAN Radio (1130 AM) this morning that Winfield said he plans to be in attendance at Winter Park for the only mandatory camp of the offseason for veteran players. It’s unknown how much of the Vikings’ offseason conditioning program Winfield has participated in since it began in April, although coach Brad Childress said early on the cornerback was in attendance.
Henderson said that he knows “Winfield is taking care of his body on his own, but [isn’t] necessarily going into Winter Park.”
Not that it's surprising -- Winfield isn't the kind of guy to skip something like this, so it's nothing groundbreaking to hear that he'll be showing up for the mandatory camp. The bottom line, however, is that this contract standstill shouldn't go on much longer. A deal needs to get done sooner rather than later, even if Winfield's not making a ruckus about it.
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Well I didn’t expect to be getting news about Winfield from Erin Henderson, but hey, I’ll take it. Glad he’s being classy about the whole situation.
Those ratings are crap. There is no way Rodgers/Grant is the top duo. My guess there is too much Rodgers/Packers love going on there. Cutler/Forte is tops, followed by Sagevaris/Peterson (although they could easily jumb to the front), Rodgers/Grant, and then whichever poor saps the Lions put on the field.
Honetly, I feel very similar to him about Favre ranking among QBs in the division. Rodgers and Cutler are both better. Daunte hasn’t proved he’s got it back yet, so he’s the only one I would consider being worse.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
by FarvaForTheVikings on May 28, 2009 7:34 AM CDT reply actions
Think I’d take Rodgers/Grant over Cutler/Forte actually. Who’s Cutler throwing to? A couple TEs and a RB. Rodgers has much better WRs to throw it to. I’m pretty sure that Grant and Forte finished with around the same yardage last year too, and Grant was injured at the beginning of the season. I’m not a fan of either team, but if I had my druthers, I’d ruther have the Packer duo over the Bear’s.
Dang, I got my info messed up. Media must’ve gotten to me. It always seemed like Forte was doing really well and the Packers’ backfield situation was a mess.
Although, looking at the stats, Forte was better in rushing TDs (8 vs. Grant’s 4) and fumbles (1 vs. 4), and easily beat Grant out when it came to the passing game:
Forte – 63 receptions, 477 yards, 4 TDs
Grant – 18 receptions, 116 yards, 1 TD.
I don’t know, it’s close. The Packers receivers make a strong case, but I view Forte as quite a bit better, plus the Bears have solid tight ends.
Obviously it’s all moot, since AP kicks them all to the curb.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
by FarvaForTheVikings on May 28, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
PA actually
has Erin Henderson on a lot. They call it his “internship”. It was actually a pretty funny show yesterday when Henderson was on, you should look it up.
I will, it sounds pretty cool.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
by FarvaForTheVikings on May 28, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Phat proved himself thru hard work?
but had to take a last minute diet pill so he could make extra $$$ by making weight which is against NFL rules in itself. While it certainly isn’t right that the NFL withheld info about StarCaps containing a banned substance it doesn’t say much for Phat’s work ethic that he couldn’t make weight without the help of pills. Tarvaris said, “If we’re friends we keep it between us”. I guess they’re not friends then because Phat’s running his mouth to the media.
+1
Pat’s just being his usual idiotic self. Meanwhile nobody seems willing to grant TJack the progress he HAS made. By the end of last season he was light years ahead of the VERY RAW talent he was in the beginning. I think Anthony21 dramatically overstates what we should expect out of a guy whose been in the league for two years coming into his third year. TJack does not “desperately need to polish his game and then polish it even more.” We’ll be a contender if he’s in the top quartile of quarterbacks.
by Anthony Carter on May 28, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Just to ward of the Catholic-grade-school-nitpicks who troll these waters. By “been in the league for two years coming into his third year” I was meaning that the only evidence of his play was last year’s peformance(s). I’m pulling for him to be our starter this year and can’t wait to see what three years coming into his fourth looks like.
by Anthony Carter on May 28, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow, you ARE a glutton for punishment, aren’t you? Keep waiting on T-Jack, because nothing’s going to change where his abilities are concerned. We need a real QB – you don’t wait for 4 years for your QB to suddenly and magical become competent. Time for a change – I for one hope we either get Favre (a known talent at QB, regardless of age) or that we get Sage going right away. Otherwise it’s another so-so season with T-Jack fumbling his way through incompetence once again. Nuff said.
Just one question
What do you think of Tony Romo as a QB? Pretty sure it took him a few years to get a handle on the QB position.
4 years
Both Tony Romo and Drew Brees were nothing until their 4th seasons in the league. Hell, they drafted a quarterback following Brees’ third season because they were sure he was done. Now they’re both top 10 QB’s and Brees almost broke Dan Marino’s single season passing record last year.
I recently read an article where Brian Billick told the reporter that Bill Walsh always said you could tell if a QB would be good between his 25th and 30th game. Jackson is just entering that range (25 appearances, 19 starts), let’s see what kind of QB he is this year.
by Cobra312004 on May 28, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Because we can afford to piss away this year if T-Jack sucks, eh? Glad you’re that patient but most fans I’ve spoken to aren’t and I doubt the players like the idea of gambling that somehow T-Jack magically learns how to read defenses and how to throw accurate passes.
No year can be “pissed away”, and the Vikings are in good shape for years to come.
That being said, T-Jack put up a 75% win ratio in his last stint as QB, and if that was representative, then he could take the Vikes to a 12-4 season; not too shabby. But I think he’ll be even better than that.
I’m not a T-Jack fanboy, never have been, but I’ve watched this young man getting better and better every year. If the Vikes had a solid #1 QB, say if C-Pep had lasted, then T-Jack could have sat back and developed for 3-5 years, and come out swinging. But he didn’t get that grace period and we-the-fanbase has been pretty impatient because of the level of talent elsewhere on the team. I think that this is T-Jack’s year, that he has what it takes to make that final adjustment.
Hard to tell with Romo
He was a Pro Bowler in his first two seasons as a starter. Bill Parcells spent the 2004-2005 seasons reliving the past with 2 former good ol’ boys who, at best, required ZERO learning. So it doesn’t necessarily mean that Tony Romo NEEDED 2+ years to learn to be an NFL QB so much as it took that long for a couple of crumbling statues to fall on their faces to give him a real opportunity.
Either way, Romo can only be an example of why Childress doesn’t know what he’s doing:
- If a project QB requires as much time on the bench as Romo, then TJ should have stayed on the bench.
- If a project QB only learns by playing, then why the bad 2007 and benching in 2008?
- If all QBs struggle in their first seasons, then explain Romo’s Pro Bowl appearances in his first two years as a starter.
- If the only explanation is that Romo is, was, and has always been all kinds of awesome, then why didn’t Childress and the Vikings acquire him for next to nothing going into 2006? (Alternate version: why did Childress & Co. prefer to trade for Kelly Holcomb over picking up Tony Romo?)
Fair enough
Haven’t seen this one mentioned, very valid point. I think Jackson has one of the hardest work ethics on the team. He has practically lived at Winter Park since he was drafted, always showing up at every mini camp, OTA and even rookie camps.
That said, there’s always room for harder work and if this helps motivate Jackson more, I am for his comments. I think even the strongest Rosenfels supporters will admit that Jackson is more physically gifted if he can get his game straight.
by Cobra312004 on May 28, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
You buyin’ it? I am, simply because of who delivered the wakeup call — a respected veteran, someone who has proven himself through working hard and putting the extra time in, and a player you obviously shouldn’t be messing around with.
A respected veteran should know when to keep his mouth shut and when to open it. Jackson has never been a problem in the locker room. He’s never had any off the field troubles. Yet Fat Pat thinks it’s okay to publicly criticize his own teammate because of his play on the field? That’s ridiculous!
You don’t call your teammate out through the media because he’s not playing well. you keep things like that in house. That doesn’t light a fire under anyone, it only creates more animosity in the locker room.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 28, 2009 10:05 AM CDT reply actions
+1
Besides, I’ve never heard anybody questioning Jackson’s work ethic before this time. If anything, I’ve heard players jokingly saying he needs to hit the weight room LESS because he’s getting to be huge. I don’t know what the deal with Pat is. Maybe Winfield’s been buzzing in his ear and the older veterans feel this way about Jackson or something, but either way, take that to the player or the coach, NOT the media.
He probably does need to hit the weight room less
I’ve heard him referred to as a “workout warrior” or “gym rat” also. For other positions, that is exactly what I want to read or hear, but it is a red flag for a QB. His problems will not be solved by adding arm strength or agility or vertical jump, etc. He needs to be practicing reads and throws and check-downs and studying film (preferably with someone else).
I wouldn’t be too surprised if Pat and other veterans have gone to Childress with similar concerns, but Childress is not going to tell the media anything negative about Tarvaris Jackson until/unless the day comes that he cuts TJ from the roster (or another day when he feels he must throw TJ under the bus to keep his job). Also, consider some of the other players who have been on the same roster as Pat in Minnesota. TJ is the first I can recall who Pat felt the need to call out, and that’s worth something, too.
Tough crowd this morning
Alright, ya got me with the stats…think we can all agree, though, that the backfields in Green Bay and Chicago aren’t as far above the Vikings’ as SI is suggesting.
But they’re throwing QBs in there, for some reason. If it was straight RBs, nobody would be questioning we’d be #1. I don’t think Jackson takes us down as much as they’re suggesting, but when you throw QBs in there, then yeah, we’re behind the Pack and Bears. I like Jackson, but I would defintely prefer Rodgers or Cutler over him right now.
Where else would Favre rank?
“By the way, “Favre arguably rates no better than the fourth-best QB in the division?” Really? Give me a break. As long as he’s healthy and that arm’s at full strength for week one, I’m not buying it."
Of course he does. They said it is predicated on Stafford having a Matt Ryan type year (which he won’t because he’ll bust). But even then, Favre is DEFINITELY not better than Cutler or Rodgers. So third in a division that includes the Lions? Woopty frickin doo! Might as well be 4th.
Is Stafford going to start? I think that would be idiotic. Let a healthy CPep take the hits behind that horrible offensive line.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
by FarvaForTheVikings on May 28, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Isn’t the bigger issue how much of an improvement Fave would be over Rosenfsls or Jackson? That should be what determines their course of action, not where he’d rank in the division. By the way, with the weapons he’d have in Minnesota, it’s by no means certain he’d be third in the North.
Favre Is a bad decision maker with no mobility
Rosenfels and Jackson are bad decision makers with mobility, so I wouldn’t call him an improvement. He may be healthy week 1, but by week 8, it will be an entire different story.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 28, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah but,
whoever the QB for the lions is, will have the benefit of throwing to Calvin Johnson.
So realistically Favre could be the 4th best QB in the division.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 28, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
A few Pointers
Jackson as bad as you think?..the guy hasn’t come close to playing a full season. He sat from week 3-12 last year. He was injured the year before. Personally, thats not enough time to evaluate someone. Especially considering his recievers up until Berrian came to town aren’t exactly a hand picked basket of strawberries. Whoever is our quarterback in 09’ will have a much improved WR core. Assuming Harvin is as versatile as we’ve heard, and does a good job of catching the ball away from his body, then open recievers should be all over the field. Double team Berrian? motion Harvin to a linebacker or 3rd string nickel back and you have lots of success. I say Give Jackson another strike at the match, hopefully things will spark earlier this year, instead of late like last year. There was too much success for Jackson at the end of the year to throw it away.
Best DUO: Well i don’t exactly know how you rate a QB/RB duo, but many factors would have to go into it. Forte is a great running reciever. (Running back and Wide Reciever) And Cutler is well known for his accuracy down the field. Sure, he can throw a screen, any quarterback can, but can he throw to recievers that aren’t open? or unreliable?. But the Cutler to Forte in a passing recieveing concept, would probably be tops.
Grant/Rodgers: Hey, I hate the packers, but Rodgers moves around in the pocket great. He buys himself alot of time. He’s got very reliable recievers. However, I’m not sold on Grant as a top 10 RB in the league. Heck, I wouldn’t put him in the top half. His best success came when he had Favre lighting it up in 07’. Since, he’s not the beast he appeared. Grant isn’t exactly a recieving running back, so in a Rodgers to Grant, they’d be last.
Peterson/Jackson: I say this because thats what i’m predicting. Peterson, (pause) is by far the best RUNNING back in the league. You could argue LT, but San Diegos passing offense has been much more respected on game days then the Vikes. Peterson has put up gaudy numbers regardless of how many men are swarming in the box. Jackson should have a full slate of recievers to throw to. Rice healthy, Berrian hopefully is over the turf toe (its annoying as hell) and Harvin supposedly a lightning bolt. The O-line is a blow with Birk gone, just on paper. However, We havn’t seen Osullivan yet, so lets not deprive him just yet. Loadholt is vying for a starting spot as a Rookie, so that shows alot of pure talent. I love the idea of two 6’8 330+ OT. Sounds pretty powerful, especially when you aren’t even talking about Hutchinson, who plays like he’s 6’8 350.
Vikes duo of Jackson/Peterson would be 2nd in my opinion, because too much is unproven out of Jackson.
Its too difficult to rate a Rookie QB in Stafford with Kevin Smith. However, Kevin Smith is a great RB. He reminds me of a North/South Reggie Bush. Sorry Reggie, your too east/west for me.
SKOL VIKES
SI = Sniveling Idiots
Why read some snot rag pandering to the Chicago market? Perhaps their circulation is floundering. So what if they are desperate for readership? It’s a recession. Maybe they’ll go under.
When the VIkings kick butt in 2009, they won’t even get credit for it in some quarters, but who will care?
The Lombardi will still look nice shining in a case at Winter Park.
Why read some snot rag pandering to the Chicago market?
I didn’t realize chicago became an east coast city. Are you kidding me?
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 28, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with Elgar....
Chicago does act like they’re an east coast city. Especially now that they’re got that espnchicago, they think they’re all that. I have always gotten the impression from Bears fans that they think they’re better than the rest of the division because of their major city status. It’s actually making me start to hate on them just as much as Green Bay.
that makes no sense at all. How does a city act like another city?
when did Chicago, a City, become bigger than Minnesota, a state?
I have always gotten the impression from Bears fans that they think they’re better than the rest of the division because of their major city status.dude, I could give a shit if the Bears were from Wyoming, we’ll still think that way.
as far as ESPN Chicago, Everybody knows we’re the sports capital of the U.S. Maybe Minneapolis would’ve been if
1.The lakers didn’t move to LA.
2.The Vikings actually win one of those superbowls
3. The Twins win more than 3 world series
4. If the weather wasn’t so damn crappy.
At least you’ll always have Ventura, he’s a sports Icon |:
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 28, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
From what I've heard
Chicago is the 3rd largest sports market, behind New York and LA.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on May 28, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, Duh
usually is according to city population.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 28, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
69 carry for Peterson?
Did you see that in the madden rankings?
Just because he coughed up some balls at the end of the season he is at 69 carry?
That is one of the things that pisses me off about madden, they rarely take the entire season into account, just the last few games.
I mean really, Fitzy is a great WR, but does he really justify 99’s in every category except speed with a 98 for route running? He has great hands, but I would not put him at 99 for spectacular catch and regular catch.
they revamped the atrributes for madden
so a 69 in this years version=a 80-84 in last years version
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on May 28, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Fitz
Fitz has something else that’s at least as important and powerful as speed and great hands… he reached deep last year and found a huge drive to win. To go all the way if he had to put every Cardinal on his back and carry them himself. That’s what turned him from being a good WR, to one of the greatest in the game right now, in 1 season.
So, what you're saying is he did it all by himself?
no Warner who was the QB and runner up for league MVP, no Boldin who took the heat off him, no Defense that stepped up big in the playoffs, just Fitz?
Am I getting all of that right?
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Jun 2, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
My Thoughts...
On Jackson
When Pat says that Jackson needs to put in more work, I doubt he means in the weight room. What he does mean, is that Jackson needs to put in more work with the rest of the team and in learning the play book. I don’t care who you are, you have to admit that Jackson still doesn’t have the entire play book down, by his third year, he should. As for work with the team, he still doesn’t have that rapport the receivers, as much as we would like to say. I would LOVE to see Jackson actually get all of the snaps with the first team offense, so that he could build that relationship with his guys. Unfortunately, year in and year out, Chilly thinks it’s necessary to take snaps away from TJack, take practice away from TJack and throw in over-the-hill or washed-up wannabes in there with him. Honestly, I blame Chilly for TJack’s stunted growth. I would love to see TJack get all of the snaps, I do not like Rosenfels, I think he’s a waste of a fourth round draft pick… Of course, that’s not going to happen… But Pat is right, TJack needs to put in more work, it’s just a damn shame that Chilly is going to get in the way and prevent that.
On Madden
Meh, I could care less… They’re never right anyways, and Peterson’s 69 is a joke, but I’m not surprised.
On the SI Rankings
This actually bothers me, everyone is so down on TJack, but once again, nobody notices the good. And of course, they don’t bother to detract from Tony Romo, the game’s greatest choke artist, but TJack has one bad game in a pressure situation and he’s the worst QB in the NFL, really fair. To have the Vikings ranked behind the Cardinals is a joke, especially if this is a QB/RB ranking. Having Warner and Hightower over AP and whoever is a god damn crime. Same goes for the Dolphins, the Ravens and the Texans. Also, I rather like this line, “If a team’s backup is an active ingredient in the mix or is arguably good enough to start for a number of other teams, that backup factored into the rating. This was not the case for every team.” And of course, there is no mention of Chester Taylor, but he considers Ahmad Bradshaw and THREE RBs on the Cowboys, which is an insult. The guy who made this article is an idiot.
On Winfield
Not really news, but I like that someone on the team is talking about it. I’m glad that Winfield is still with the team and not punishing his teammates for his contract problems.
by Eric The Viking on May 28, 2009 2:07 PM CDT reply actions
Winfield
Hey Vikes lets get the deal done with him. He is the best Corner you have and has proven beyond a doubt that he needs to be signed. He doing the Man workouts and not complaining. Alot better than most players in the league. Lets not mess this one up
Nothing but love for Winfield
…but I won’t be too disappointed if this is his last year in purple. He’s going to command a contract for 3+ years after this one on the open market, and the odds are stacked against him being as effective as we’re used to seeing for even half of that time.
I’d love to see the Vikings sign him to a 1-year extension onto his current deal, though.
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