On Percy Harvin, Garrett Mills, the KAO, and out-smarting Bill Belichick
by virginia viking on May 3, 2009 12:49 PM CDT
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PrintTwo things I hope about Brad Childress's offensive accumen: he's got some good ideas about how to use Percy Harvin; his evil plan to steal Garrett Mills off the Patriots' practice squad back in 2007 pans out.
Why? These two players have the potential to add too much versatility to the KAO for defenses to handle. Percy Harvin's a rookie, who's yet to even attend a min-camp, and Garrett Mills, though he's been on the team for two years now, has yet to see a whole lot of time on the field. Last year, he caught 5 passes for 65 yards.
Harvin, as we all know, can do a lot of things on offense. His skills could be put to good use in the backfield, in the slot, and split wide. Who covers him? He's definitely too quick for any NFL linebacker in space, and can (hopefully) beat most sub-package defensive backs, too. Devoting a safety or a top corner to covering him weakens coverage on the Vikes' X and Y receivers. Seeing him and the NFL's best running back in the backfield pretty much demands an eight-man front.
What about this Mills kid? As much as I was happy to see Shank bust out last season (pun intended), I was a little disappointed that we didn't see more of #45. Maybe he's too small to line up on the line very much. I still can't forget, though, that he set a NCAA record for 1,235 receiving yards by a tight end in 2005 for the U of Tulsa as an All-American. Clearly, the guy knows how to catch a football. Apparently, he knows how to run a few fullback dive plays, too.
This is what the Patriots media said after Belichick and Co. drafted him in the fourth round a couple of years ago. What Mills's college position coach, Matt Wells, said about him after the draft--"They have a plan for him. A team like that doesn’t draft someone without having a plan"--strikes a familiar note, doesn't it? Obviously, the Patriots' plan got derailed when Brad Childress claimed Mills off of waivers in 2007.
So, we've got two guys on the roster that are kinda tweeners, but were really, really productive football players in college. What do we do?
Well, imagine this: It's, say, 2nd and 7 midfield, and the Vikes come off the bench with their starting QB (whoever that turns out to be), Adrian Peterson, Bernard Berrian, and Sidney Rice. No surprises so far; these guys come out almost every play. Then, #12 and #45 start huddling up, too. What defensive personel do you send out?
With Harvin and Mills, the Purple could show a 3- or 4-wide set, or even a 3-back formation like the wishbone or power-i. What defense can resonably defend against both possibilities?
The problem with Brad Childress has always been that he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. It's not a terrible quality in a head coach, actually. The Hoodie has that complex in spades. That particular coach picked right after the Vikings last weekend, and skeddadled right out of the first round after Harvin disappeared from the board. In 2007, Belichick got so pissed that he lost Mills on waivers that he stole... some back-up linebacker whose name I don't remember from our practice squad. In any case, Brad seems to enjoy beating Bill to versatile, exciting college prospects.
Let's just hope that Mr. Smarty Pants can figure out how to use them in the NFL.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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If I were to bet on a "genius" fight between Chilly and Belly
I would have to go with Belichick, I would even take 10 to 1 odds.
Genius....
How quickly a HOF QB makes a coach a “genius”. Seems to my recollection he hasn’t done much without him… In fact I believe he has virtually missed the playoffs every other year.
Not talking winning or losing.
Talking overall player development, game management and the ability get his players to buy into a system.
You don’t see any veterans taking less salary to stay on the Vikes, do you? Happens all the time on the Pats.
You don’t see any 4-6 round QB’s performing up to the level that both Brady and Cassell have?
5 playoff appearances and 3 Super Bowls and not ONE year with less than 9 wins in 7 years makes Belichick a Genius, with or without a HOF QB.
That puts him on par with Don Shula and he had Marino.
With or without a HOF QB?
Sorry but maybe you should check the statistics before you make that statement….
Of the seasons Brady wasn’t on the team (or injured) Belicheck is 2 out of 7 on winning seasons, one playoff appearance, ZERO Superbowls….. Brady makes him look like a genius,, it is nothing he has earned without him…. Heck, I give Parcells more the title “genius” than Belicheck. Parcels wins with virtually any QB and half the talent of Belicheck.
Talented team? Yes… Let’s see how long that lasts now that Pioli is gone. He had a ton of draft picks this year left to him. Let’s see before we claim he did it on his own.
Of course people take less money to stay, or play, there. They want to win and that is because of Brady, not Belicheck. Heck players do it all over the league too, not just for the Pats. Steeler players do it. Other players rearrange their salaries and take less to keep teamates on other teams. All because they want to win, not because of Belicheck.
Does he get people to follow the rules and keep their mouth shut? Yes, I will give him that. But so does Chilly and he is far from a genius.
Follow up to Stats
Note: Belichick Stats are the 7 seasons Belichick didn’t have Brady playing or on the team…. This includes Cleveland.
Not fair to count Cleveland
Remember that Art Modell was the owner when Belichick was the coach there and he wasn’t spending any money because the team wouldn’t build him a new stadium. Belichick couldn’t go out and get the veteran talent that he wanted and ended up getting canned and meeting up with Parcells in New England.
Modell then moved the team to Baltimore a few years later. The differences between Cleveland era Art Modell and Bob Kraft are tremendous.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Pretty sure the Pats will keep chugging without Pioli. Honestly, with the exception of the last draft, you never heard much of their first round picks. They pretty much just used those picks for getting good players, ala Welker and Moss. So I highly doubt they’ll start doing terrible a few years down the road.
And Brady or not, for a guy to win 3 Championships in 7 years is pretty damn good. Going by record, they should have made it into the playoffs last year. Who knows how far they’d have gone too. Without Brady and their first, second or third string RBs, and some LB injuries, not to mention losing Harrison, they’re 11-5. I’d say that helps Belichick’s case for being a genius.
Sorry my man but I disagree big time…. History shows it!!!!
The 3 championships in 7 years is outstanding but all because of Brady. Go check out the 2001 season. They started 1-3 and then Brady took over. The rest is history…. Oh, but maybe coincidentally that was the same week Belichick became a so called “genius”. ;-)
Look at Belichick’s career from that week on. Then look at every other week (including pre-Brady) he was a head coach without Brady. His record is horrible…
From what I see of history, Belichik has been a Genius in New England. A team is not made up of a QB alone. Belichik put a team together that could last and work through tough times. Last year, taking a high school QB after Brady went down in week 1, and still posting an 11-5 record, when everyone said the Pats were done, shows how well he has trained that team. He gathered the right pieces and put them on Belichik lockdown. Once they realized that they were perennial winners, everyone gels and there is no Cowboy bickering. It’s Bill’s way or the highway. Even this year’s draft showed his genius (which he might have learned from Parcells, when he was his Defensive Coordinator in 1985 and then again in 1996) when he knew that with a team in place that was ready to hit the SB again this year, he turned to stocking its future by accumulating draft picks.
I don’t like his attitude, but I respect his coaching. He gets the job done and his players are happy.
The fact he has a good QB doesn’t mean he’s not a good coach. Sure, Brady can make the throws, but who’s calling those plays? Because it sure isn’t Tom. This is like saying Tony Dungy wasn’t a good coach, just because he had Peyton Manning. Or Norv Turner is bad, but he has Phillip Rivers which means he’s okay.
The championships aren’t just from Brady. Yeah, he had a big part in them, there’s no doubt about it. But it wasn’t just one man making the victories, it was the team. The team that’s been built and motivated into being contenders year after year by Bill Belichick.
Also, Cleveland was a different situation, since he had different rules to work with there, since Art Modell isn’t the easiest of bosses to work for. That was 1991-1995. Since then, Belichik went back to being a defensive coordinator and assistant head coach. He probably picked up a few more tricks and learned a bit more about being a head coach in those subsequent 5 years. Once he became a head coach again in 2000, he took over a losing team and went 5-11. That was his only losing year with them. As for Brady being a great QB…he is. But on another team, he might not have been the same. And it took Belichik to decide that he would be their starting QB.
Sorry guys but I still disagree. But that’s ok…. I know my stance isn’t the easy one. But I also believe it is the right one. Good lord, everything changed the game Brady took over. Go look at the game and the record since then. It is scary. Then look at the record prior… under .500. But then again, then was when the switch went off and Belichick became a “genius”. ;-)
And yes, an average QB took over a 16-0 team in an easy division and went 10-5. Heck Tavaris could have done that too!
It’s all good!
I wouldn’t call the AFC East an easy division last year. The Dolphins weren’t the same as their 1-15 team the season before, the Jets were in early Superbowl talks, and the Bills. . . Well, they were the easy team of the division. But still.
And it’s really not so much the QB that makes Bellichick so great, it’s that he uses his players to maximum potential. Obviously we’ll have to see how Cassel does in KC, but my guess is they aren’t going to be as successful with him as the Pats were, and not just because the WRs are a serious downgrade. Obviously there are more examples than just Cassel to show how Bellichick knows to play to the strength of his offense.
Lets not forget
Their schedule was pretty much a cake walk compared to the Vikes. I think this made those AFC east teams look a bit better than they actually were.
It is not fair to compare Cassel, last year to this year. The Chiefs are a complete mess right now and are in rebuilding mode Vs. the Pats who were a 16-0 team the year before.
http://vikingsmashfootball.wordpress.com/
The point is, great is with or without a HOF QB. Look at Parcells…. he has won regardless of who his QB is having built teams that were all horrible. Belichick took over an 8-8 team, took them to 5-11, then was 1-3 the following year before he realized he designated the wrong QB the starter. Then put Brady in and the rest is history.
Now doing it with many different QB’s is great. Genius is whole diffewrent level !! Belichick hasn’t proven he can’t do it without Brady so how am I supposed to designate him genius?…. Do it without Brady (win a SB) and Pioli and then we can talk….
Can’t think of too many successful teams without a good QB. The only thing that makes Brady a future HOFer is who he was surrounded by, and the system that Belichik built around him…Welker, Moss, 3-RB carrousel, and the main thing…..GUARDS that can give him 30 seconds to throw the ball! Those guards are the heart of the team, not Brady.
True, you have to have a good QB.. .
BTW… Brady won a SB without Moss, Welker and the 3 RB thing. And the Guards didn’t magically get better the game Brady took over. They were 1-3 in 2001 before Brady took over. They then went 10-2 and won the SB.
I simply find it hard to believe we would be talking about Belichik as a so called Genius if it weren’t for Brady.
Belichik as NE head coach w/Brady as QB: 86-23
Belichik as NE head coach w/o Brady as QB: – 15-16
Belichik as Cleveland head coach (no Brady): 36-44
Maybe you should define what you think a genius coach is, because if Bellichick isn’t even close to the mark I’m very much interested to see what you think makes one. An 86-23 record isn’t anything to sneeze at, even with Brady. There’s so much more to the game than just the QB play.
The only thing....
….that makes Belichik even come close to being a genius is the fact he was able to cheat for so long and not get caught.
i’m with purple jesus. I’ve been saying this for years that Brady and random luck are the only things that Belichik has………..
lol Right. Bellichick is the only coach in the history of the league to ever try and one-up his opponents through a loophole in the rules. Let’s hang him on the wall for that.
Cheating or not, what he’s accomplished is amazing.
The measure is
how would you feel if that other teams guy was wearing purple? Or in the case of BB a viking hoody.
Would anyone care about the cheating label if BB was vikings coach? No we would be too ecstatic with the 3 superbowl rings and the anticipation of the next to worry much about manginis sour grapes allegations.
BB is the best coach in the current nfl. noone comes close.
Sad
What’s kinda pathetic about it, Frost, is that of all the coaches in the NFL, and with the talent that the Patriots have, you wouldn’t think that Bellichick would need to cheat….
The Patriots may be amazing, but it’s hard to respect a cheater. I doubt it will impact his future HoF status, but for those of us who were watching when his fingers got caught in the cookie jar, it’ll always tarnish the shine when he’s set beside the great ones who didn’t cheat.
Lol...
All this because I used genius to describe these two head coaches, I even put it in quotation marks to make it obviously sarcastic.
The bottom line is, Belichick is smarter than Childress.
Wow… We should start a Belichik string…
Obviously you still haven’t looked at the stats. It was like a switch went on…As SOON AS Brady became QB they went 10-2 and it never stopped. Before that they were FAR below .500 with Belichik as Head Coach.
Now as far as my definition of “genius”… I would have to say those Head Coaches that can do it with various QB’s, not just one. And I am not even saying they have to win a SB, just make a drastic change in the team and consisitently win…. Parcells comes to mind immediately. Shula, who did it over and over again. Bill Walsh, who changed the game with the system he put in and did it with both Montana and Young. Belichik doesn’t match up to these guys, nor earns the term “genius” in my mind, until he does it with another QB. He had a chance last year with a 16-0 team and a new QB and couldn’t make the playoffs, strike one! So, IMO he isn’t worthy of that title yet. Now is he a good/decent coach…yes. Is he a genius, not proven yet. It was just too drastic a change as soon as Brady took control.
Now I won’t go as far as others and say it was because of the cheating. They had a good team because of Brady. Once they started winning, players wanted to play with him aka Moss. That makes the team even better. This isn’t that uncommon in any sport. The Mets needed credibility and signed Pedro Martinez. That instantly allowed them to sign other Free Agents like Carlos Beltran etc. Is that the Manager who is a genius? No. The Great/Genius Coach or manager makes bad or middle of the road teams playoff teams aka Parcells. Belichick has not done that.
He didn’t make the playoffs because of how its set up. He had an 11-5 record. That was better than San Diego’s 8-8 record. By record alone, they should have been in.
But how exactly did he not take a bad team and make it good? Didn’t he draft Brady? Didn’t he decide to play him? Like you said, they were 1-3 and then Bellichick made a switch and took them to a SB victory. Bellichick took a middle of the road team and has turned it into a modern dynasty. You seem to be setting up a double-standard here.
I agree
This does seem like just outright bias against Bellichick. I may not like the guy, but he has done great things in New England. When he took over New England, it was a bad team, a laughing stock of the NFL. It’s now the gold standard in the NFL, Brady or not. You also need to give him credit for taking Brady in the 6th round, when no other team in the league would. If you think that Bellichick didn’t have any say in personnel decisions, even with Pioli, you’re dead wrong. He had a very large say in choosing personnel. Also, he took Matt Cassel, a guy who hadn’t started a game since HIGH SCHOOL and turned him into the hottest commodity heading into this off season. He won 11 games with that guy!
Also, let’s take a look at that 2001 season that you continually reference… In the Super Bowl, Tom Brady passed for all of… 145 yards, 1 touchdown on 16 completions out of 27 attempts. Man, what a beast, he really won that game by himself! Oh wait… I forgot about that whole defense thing… Ya know, with Bellichick shutting down one of the greatest teams in history. A team that, at the beginning of the season, was being touted as the team that would go undefeated and join the ’72 Dolphins as the greatest team in history. I still remember the hype for that team. And Bill shut them down. Period.
Also on that 2001 season, the Brady started in week 3, which means the Pats were only 0-2 without him, and Brady was less than amazing that season, going for 2843 yards on 413 attempts and 264 completions, with 18 TDs and 12 INTs, once again, not lighting the world on fire. I’d say those numbers are pretty… Rex Grossman-ish. The Pats won with punishing defense and a strong game plan. And it’s Bill Bellichick who came up with it.
by Eric The Viking on May 4, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
All I said was the guy hasn’t earned the term “genius” yet. Geez…. Do it without Brady and the Title is his. My bet is he can’t. The stats show it and you guys all don’t want to give A great QB the credit.
Look at Tony Dungy. A slightly better than average Head Coach. he goes to Indy and consistently goes 13-3 and 12-4. Was it because of him? Not really, Peyton Manning would have gone 12-4 or 11-5 anyway. A great QB makes any coach look really good.
Brett Favre, same thing. Took an overall average team for years and made it a fairly consistent winner. John Elway, same thing…. Fairly easy to name HOF QBs that make the coach of the time look great.
Now instead of crowning all these coaches, how about being a little more analytical and look at what they do without the QBs? Parcells consistent. Walsh, multiple QB success, Shula same thing.
Anyway, I have spent enough time on a non_Viking subject. I am signing off from this topic.
My point is that Belichick is not the genius everyone makes him out to be. No bias, just facts and stats. Look at the records. It only proves my point and you
A great QB is nothing without a good head coach and team around him.
It takes all the right pieces in the right spot. From management that will support the Head Coach to a team of peaking athletes at the right times in their careers. That and luck. Thing is, the blame and the genius label go to the Head Coach for making the right moves (both personnel-wise and on-the-field-wise). So, looking at Belichik’s history as coach of the Patriots’ Dynasty….he is a football genius now.
I doubt anybody’s trying to take anything away from Brady. Personally, I’m inclined to believe he’s possibly THE best QB the league has ever seen. Period. But that doesn’t mean who ever is his coach is a genius, because QB is only one position out of 22. In fact, I bet if you asked Brady himself who deserved the most credit for the Patriots Dynasty, he’d honestly name his coach.
Wow, best ever?
If Peyton Manning keeps going like he is, he will probably break the Favre/Marino records. Brady is not even close.
http://vikingsmashfootball.wordpress.com/
Mills
I have always liked Mills, and I thought he’d get some good opportunities before he got hurt last year. He was another guy who just never got up to full speed after his injury. I think he could be a great compliment to Shank though and be a good mismatch kind of receiver.
He needs to replace Tahi as the primary fullback. That he can line up as an H-back or a second tight-end is a bonus.
by virginia viking on May 4, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Just a heads-up
The forums at Boston.com have linked to this FanPost. They’re under the impression that you’re part of the staff here. I’m guessing that they’re under that impression because they’re too stupid to know any better.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on May 3, 2009 5:12 PM CDT reply actions
Huh. Who knew? I’m flattered to be thought of as part the DN staff, even erroneously.
by virginia viking on May 4, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Belichick strikes back!
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/04/pats-sign-ciurciu-others/
http://vikingsmashfootball.wordpress.com/
Not Ciurciu! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
In AP I trust
by FarvaForTheVikings on May 4, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
See? The Hoodie has a penchant for back-up Vikings linebackers.
by virginia viking on May 4, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m confused by this. Wtf does Bellichick see in Ciurciu? He wasn’t even a servicable back up LB, and he certainly wasn’t very good on the worst ST in the history of the NFL. Or was this just to spite the Vikes for taking Harvin, just like he did when we nabbed Mills?
FYI
Mike Vrabel was also a back up LB who was cut by the Steelers. Belichick turned him into an All-Pro in his system.
Obviously I hope that doesn’t happen here, but Belichick’s record with other people’s castoffs is awfully good: Antowain Smith also comes to mind.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
they just signed brandon mcgowan...
which had me thinking the same thing… what is the mad scientist up to??? here’s a perrenial IR guy that we let go in free agency (and we all know how badly the bears need safeties), and the pats just snatch him up, no questions asked…
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