Deja vu all over again as Minnesota bids for yet ANOTHER old QB.
by TheChadK on Jun 12, 2009 11:17 PM CDT
19 comments
Deja vu all over again
It seems as if the Vikings organization has forgotten the past and is therefore doomed to repeat it. For how many years from the early nineties through Culpepper’s breakout year or two and beyond did Minnesota chase down aging quarterbacks in the waning years of their careers in a desparate, and never successful attempt to win a Superbowl with a team that “just needed that franchise quarterback”? I’m asking because I don’t know the exact number off had but some of the names on the list include Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon, Jeff George (who was never really given the chance), Brad Johnson and Gus Ferrotte to name five in the last decade or so. Culpeper was the only legitimate quarterback the Vikings have drafted in the last decade or so who could have been the franchise QB the Vikes have been looking for but Daunte’s injuries prevented that from happening. So instead of cutting their loses and selling out to acquire the next, young, future quarterback of the franchise, the Vikings went back to shoveling cash to different old guys year after year. I was hoping that after wasting year after year of watching a “veteran quarterback” whose job it was to “manage the game” turn out losing season after losing season, the Vikings may have finally realized that unless you somehow land a Jay Cutler type in free agency, scouring NFL retirement homes and other teams waste bins for discarded former pro-bowl talented quarterbacks to resurrect your franchise simply IS NOT the way to have continued, long term success in the NFL.
That brings us to the present and the Vikings using a second round pick on T. Jackson because he reminded Brad Childress of a young McNabb. Nice compliment to a young player, good overall skill set in Jackson and he even had some bench time to learn the offense and become familiar with the system. The guy waits, gets a chance, shows a definite upside but doesn’t take the Vikings to the Superbowl in his first two seasons as a PART TIME starter so now he’s a bust and the Vikings need to bail on Jackson to chase down another formerly great quarterback who is well past his prime? How about Joe Montana going to the Chiefs? They won the Superbowl in one year with that mega move right? Not even close. And the triumphant return of Tommy Maddox was what earned the Steelers their most recent Lombardi trophies, correct? Wrong again. The list goes on. If Brad Childress still feels he has a McNabb caliber, franchise quarterback in the making with Jackson, the only way he is going to develop into that quarterback is on the field, not year after year on the bench watching a guy ten to fifteen years his senior going for one last shot at the ultimate prize in football. If McNabb did not take his team to the Division Championship his first or second year in the league, how could Childress expect Jackson to pull it off? Jackson, unlike McNabb, who is currently one of the best quarterbacks in the league, started off with a better record in his first 24 starts than the superstar he's been compared to. But he's not going to keep up that success or develop as a player if the Vikings continue to search for the one season wonder instead of building a team around a solid young quarterback who has proven he can win in the NFL with a great running game and a solid group of receivers.
The point here is simple; the Vikings need to become the team that drafts a player to be the guy and then have the patience to let him become that guy. This philosophy has been proven successful in the NFL over and over again in recent years. Besides Trent Dilfer winning a Super Bowl as a veteran quarterback with the Ravens (who, by the way had arguably the best defensive season in NFL HISTORY), there has not been another team that has won the NFL championship by abandoning their draft and develop philosophy and grabbing a has been from the cobwebs of seasons past. I believe that with the improved receiving corps, the third season of AP and a defense that has been “Superbowl caliber” for the last four or five years, Jackson can, with a full, 16 game season under his belt, highs and lows being taken with grace and humility by the organization, be the guy the Vikings are looking for.
I just want to throw out four names as food for thought: Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Eli Manning. The first two of these now Franchise quarterbacks won their first Super Bowls without being the focal point of their teams after taking over for veteran quarterbacks who injured themselves out of the line-up. Credit where it is due for winning of course granted, but check out the archives and look at the numbers these multiple ring wearing quarterbacks put up in their first two Super Bowl wins. I think Brady’s QB rating was in the seventies or low eighties. He did have that drive, but I’m sure he didn’t gain the poise and confidence to orchestrate that drive because the Patriots held the return of Bledsoe over his head like an oversized cartoon anvil. Big Ben was also unspectacular in his first Super Bowl victory. Then consider the Mannings, especially Eli. A couple years back there were questions about Eli and his ability to lead his team to and win the big one. Pretty sure he had a sub-par season or two before finding his place and winning the Super Bowl as the signal caller for a team with an execent ground game and a top ten defense. Sound familiar Vikings? Am I starting to make sense here?
Brad Childress and the Vikings organization as a whole need to stop doing exactly that to T. Jack; stop holding the anvil over his head, drop the courting of Favre and tell him that if he wins the job in training camp, the job is his for the entire season. Step two is simple; take all the talent you have acquired on offense, take what works in the current system and design an entire scheme devoted to spreading the ball to: Adrian Peterson, V. Shiancoe, B. Berrian, Percy Harvin, Chester Taylor and Sidney Rice (if healthy) playing to the strengths of a young, live armed quarterback who has enough mobility to keep plays alive. Despite the fact that, besides AP, none of the other players mentioned are in the top five, maybe even top ten, players at their respective postions, there is enough offensive talent on this team to win a Super Bowl, this year, without Farve. And in case the Vikings want to be a contender for more than one year, how about forgetting the pursuit of players with one year or less left in their football careers. Unless you think the Patriots would have been better off sticking with Bledsoe when Brady struggled at times as a rookie. Then we might as well give Rich Gannon a call. He was a Viking once and after several years in the booth, I bet his arm is as strong as ever.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Copy and Pasted from another section of the DN
I feel bad for Tarvaris the most. He was supposed to be the starter last season. He had some off the field issues (family) and didn’t play the best the first 2 games of the season. He didn’t play bad, just not great. So he got pulled. Then He gets a chance to start again, and plays very well. Gets the team into the playoffs. Plays decently. Had one bad play in the first half. Then his head coach was incapable of making adjustments in the second half, and the Vikings lose. Either way, IMO he played well enough to be considered the starter for this year. Then the Vikings go and get Sage. TJack had to be a little discouraged about it, but hey, it will be an open competition, and any competitor would be ok with that. Now all of a sudden, Favre is being brought up. He is sure to come in and be the starter. No questions asked. TJack goes from being the certain starter to fighting for the back up spot. I’d be a little pissed if I was him too. TJack was a project. He came in, was forced to play way before he was ready, pays his dues, puts in the work, and is finally in a position to be the starter for his team. Now this?
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Jun 13, 2009 1:06 AM CDT reply actions
Hahaha...
in all fairness, I did say that it was copied/pasted. Haha. Give me my point back damnit!
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Jun 13, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
The copy paste mistake
I apologize, I meant originally to post it as a blog but I threw it in on a comment instead. Soyes, it was copied and pasted, but from the person who originally posted the comment. I apologize for the confusion.
copy and paste comment
was referring to my comment. Not your post. Your copy and paste is alright, as it is a good post. Lol
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Jun 13, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
The Elephant in the Room
In other times, the points mentioned above might have carried more weight, and things may have worked out differently. Sadly, the time has come to do my best Paul Harvey impersonation and tell the rest of the story.
There is no tomorrow for the Minnesota Vikings. A domino chain of "guns to the head" is already in place. This is much bigger than Minnesota, or the Vikings, or pro football.
Here we sit in the midst of a recession. Auto companies are going broke. Employment is down. Spending is down. Many people are still trapped in mortgages in which their homes are no longer worth what they paid for them, facing eviction, not because they didn’t take care of the place where they lived, but because finance managers hired math wizards to create derivatives and erect a giant house of cards made out of subprime loans without ever setting adequate money aside in case things went bad, which then actually happened and toppled the world economy. Just because you write pretty equations does not mean that they describe how the real world works. There is no easy way to fix that now.
The only way to keep the Vikings in Minnesota is to get them into a stadium where more luxury accommodations could be sold to wealthy business clients. The Metrodome runs a fast last as an NFL moneymaker. The other tenants of the Dome are leaving and soon the entire structure may be a vacant monstrosity.
Just like the people with adjustable rate mortgages which they can no longer make payments on, the Vikings, if they cannot bring more money in, will be forced to move out.
The reason things have gotten crazier than Fonzie jumping the shark on Happy Days is that the numbers are looking bad, just as they were for that show. Desperate times inspire desperate measures.
The thing Favre can do that others cannot do is pack the house. Every seat sold inches the money coming in upward against the money that is going out. The number of people who think it is unfair what is happening now or who think Favre is the biggest clown in history will not matter when the controlling figure is really the number of people who will come in to see the clown and help fill the big top.
It is no secret that the Achilles’ heel of the Vikings is they lack the experience at quarterback. I believe that either Sage or Tarvaris could make it, given enough time, but time is of the essence this season. Management is pulling hard at the wheel, but they can see that ordinary measures are not going to clear this iceberg.
It’s not that they have great confidence that Favre can win the Super Bowl or feel that no chance exists that the others involved cannot. The truth is that if your business is up against the wall, you’ll try to squeeze every button you have so that the worst case becomes that you have tried every last measure available but still failed.
They are not going to bring Favre on board if his arm looks shaky. They’re betting the house that this Vikings team they are assembling can pull this one out of the fire.
Favre was not doing bad for the Jets before the injury last year. He didn’t have AD there. Favre still holds the NFL records for passes completed, touchdowns, and wins that Elway, and Marino, and Tarkenton only wish that they had. Sure, Favre is only human and has his down side. Even if it turns out Favre is not the quarterback that Sage or Tarvaris might become, Favre has two unfair advantages over them: He was born sooner that they were, and he managed to survive some things they have not even faced.
Most people in Minnesota believe that either they don’t care about the Vikings or that someone else is going to magically appear with more money or that the Vikings will never leave. That is exactly the way the people of Cleveland thought in 1995.
It’s not that the management is pushy with things due to a genetically derived deficiency for patience. Most people just tend to hurry a bit when they realize that the live grenade is lying there in the foxhole with them. You may try to look calm as you pick it up and toss the thing out, but you don’t have the time to make a phone call and buy more life insurance.
This is not a drill. This is not a dress rehearsal. This is it.
Missing the point
There is two single letters in the alphabet that will fill the seats in the Dome for years to come and they have nothing to do with B.F. or all the b.s he will continue to create. Those two letters are A and P. Despite how miserable the Detroit Lions were when that Sanders guy was their back for eleven years, the house was still packed. As long as Adrian Peterson wears purple and keeps shredding defenses week in and week out, this is not about ticket sales or a new stadium. And tell me this Elgar, how can a one year wonder become the catalyst for a stadium that won’t be ready to house an NFL game for at least two years?
It’s about Childress getting caught up in the “win now” attitude of the NFL and the “just a quarterback away” mentality that has crushed the progress of the Vikings offense since the ’98 Playoff loss to the Falcons. For anyone who has followed the Vikings closely over the years, this is just the same damn thing over and over again. Example, the second coming of Brad Johnson where his job was to “manage the offense” because all the other pieces were in place. He managed the Vikes into an efficient 8 – 8 season and no playoffs. Gus Frerotte did the same thing over the past couple years and the result was the same, sub-par seasons and no playoffs. Jackson did, with the help of a great supporting cast as we focus on the TEAM part of all this, what all these has-been or never-were quarterbacks have done in Minnesota and that is lead the team into the playoffs. Once there, he won a game too. Yes, he got beat down by a ridiculously talented Philly defense that owned the entire offense across the board. And the play calling was about as diversified as Techmo Super Bowl.
A couple years ago, the Chicago Bears went 13 – 3 with Kyle Orton leading the way in the regular season. Once in the playoffs, Da Bears started Rex Grossman, got to the Super Bowl and lost, mainly due to Grossman’s “lost in the sauce” performance. Why not just use that winning strategy? Let Jackson play the entire season, get the Vikes to the playoffs then bring in Favre to win when it really counts? If that sounds dumb, it’s because it is. How about we just take Favre out of the equation entirely, give Jackson the chance he deserves and create an offensive system that consists of more than run, run, run, play action long ball, run, run, run….play action long ball. Sounds better than any scenario involving a worn out number 4.
by TheChadK on Jun 13, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dumb Ideas that Work
Let Jackson play the entire season, get the Vikes to the playoffs then bring in Favre to win when it really counts? If that sounds dumb, it’s because it is.
If T-Jack takes the team to the playoffs, and loses it, at least part of the excuse will be a lack of playoff experience. Same if we get to the Super Bowl and blow it there.
No, it’s not dumb at all. Keep the old man in good shape for the final run, he has the playoff and Super Bowl experience, the experience of playing under enormous pressure with the eyes of millions critically watching your every twitch. That’s really the only value that I think Favre brings to the table, the Vikes will get to the playoffs and probably a game deeper than last season, with T-Jack or Sage at the helm. Possibly deeper. If that’s all Favre can offer, then he’s not worth picking up.
Elgar’s point about needing to get that stadium deal worked out is solid thinking, but I’m not sure that Favre is enough of a marquee to pull it off all by himself, without the Vikings going all the way. I’ve read the anti-Viking hate-mail in the Trib and there’s a LOT of them. They may not be the majority opinion, but they look like they are because they’re vocal and they get heard while the theoretical majority who love the Vikes, are silent. Having good, competitive seasons won’t be enough to silence the haters, only a Super Bowl will pass them that nice, tall glass of STFU.
+1
I may pick on you for long dialogues but you expounded beautifully on what I have felt and written in some posts.
1st and foremost, if we turn into another Cleveland, we need to unite and fight to keep the Vikings name synonomous with Minnesota and it’s heritage. Witht he Browns winning their case to keep the name I think they would agree rather than go to court and lose. If we have a DN blogger who is a lawyer would you keep this in mind and lead the fight? I still think the Lakers name belongs here. I was in LA and saw no lakes-just cess pools.
2. The Wilfs and Vikings are willing to put $ into the stadium project. If we lose the team there will be no such support available. On the flip side I think the Vikings blew an opportunity to put $ into TCF and make it a premeir college and pro venue. The excuse it was on campus was dumb. Vikings fans will show. I also thouhgt a tran from the fairgrounds parking area would have worked and given fans a place to tailgate.
3. Why didn’t he state jump on stimulus $ to help build the stadium? I heard of many stupid stimulus requests from cities. This would be a bonofide request to help pay worker salaries. Putting people to work now (during this recession) would be a big boost in the Minnesota economy.
4. Waiting will just cost us more $ down the road. Each year we delay the price tag on such an extensive project goes higher. So we wait, lose the team, and pay more in hopes of getting an expansion team? Now you’ve got your stadium but no tennant.
5. Finally, do this thing right. Build an adjoining hotel paid for by the company who puts their tag on it. A shopping center, a food court.
Bottom line is Elgar is right “This is it”. If we don’t have the Vikings we won’t have the extra revenues to build later. I don’t know how true it is, but I heard the tax money from The Vikings paid in income tax, sales and property tax, sales tax from game day visitors, etc. would be worth it in the long run.
by CitrusFLViking on Jun 13, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
There's the real truth!
Favre will drive sales through the roof! Tickets, Jerseys, Prime time football games on T.V!!! and boo to the main post…
-1
- We ruined Culpepper by throwing him out there and having him get hurt and suck all the time… inconsistent. We bring Favre in, and hopefully he does to T-Jack whatever he did to rodgers because he’s probablly the best QB in our division. I think they’re the team to beat this season.
Skol Vikes 4 Life!
I don’t see how you think Favre is going to have such a great effect on Tjack. Tjack’s already been in the league 3 years. One year of Favre, who may or may not give him the time of day, probably isn’t going to make that huge of a difference. Rodgers had him for the first three years of his career.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Jun 13, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
It’s one year of, hopefully, serious study that’ll help him get even more familiar with the offense. I don’t think Favre will completely ignore the other guys. Really, all Jackson has to say is “Yo, man, teach me how to read defenses so I can kick GB’s ass in the future.” and Favre would jump all over it.
Maybe not, but either way, it’s an extra season for Jackson to study the offense a bit more and kind of fly under the radar a bit. He seems to be pretty sensitive when the spotlight is shining on him, most of the time because of the negative press, I suppose.
Why do we talk ticket sales?
Haven’t the Vikings had a long streak of sell outs? Signing BF isn’t going to put fans on the roof of the dome.
The objective is, can BF win for us now? We will hear no news of a signing until both parties are convinced BF can play and his arm is OK.
by CitrusFLViking on Jun 13, 2009 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Sold out every game
But I thought that was because Fox News bought all the remaining tickets or something? Correct me if I am wrong but I have always believed this for some reason
I believe you are right
I don’t think the Vikings sold out every game. I think some companies bought the remaining tickets
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Jun 13, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
2 things
1. WOW. I can’t believe that anyone is still assuming that Tarvaris Jackson is the next NFL franchise QB. or that TJ belongs in the same sentence as Tom Brady, Big Ben, or Peyton Manning!
Each of them had established a much better body of work after their third seasons. Brady had earned a trip to Hawaii with an 86.5 rating in 14 starts, and that was his 2nd year in the league (1st year as a starter, and with enough starts to qualify for awards). Peyton Manning was a Pro Bowler in his 2nd and 3rd seasons after a rough go of it as a rookie. You’re wrong about Roethlisberger, too: he had posted ratings in the high nineties in his first two years in the league (and he played right away).
Perhaps TJ fits in with Eli Manning in the sense that Eli hadn’t lived up to the hype and the team won despite his presence as long as it was talented and healthy. On the other hand, Eli took Kurt Warner’s starting job away, which only proves that bringing in a veteran to compete and earn the starting job does not ruin any decent QB prospect at all.
Someone mentioned Rex Grossman, and his QB rating in 2006 was 73.9 (he started all 16 games for the Bears that year). TJ’s career rating is 76.5 — all of 2.6 points better than Rex Freaking Grossman. As long as the Vikings have one of the best defenses ever (and that’s not happening this year) AND the greatest RB in the league AND someone like Devin Hester to bail the team out a couple games per year, TJ could lead the VIkings to the playoffs and maybe make it to the Super Bowl and probably lose it again. Or perhaps there will be some radical change in his play and consistency to finish better than that, but nobody should be banking on that to happen after 3 years.
By now, he had better be able to beat Rosenfels and Favre (or at least beat Rosenfels and learn from Favre for 1 year). If TJ was really as good as you say he is, there would be no need for a veteran, especially after Childress has staked so much of his reputation on him.
2. Worse yet, I can’t believe that there are still fans who think that every Minnesota Vikings season is mostly about Tarvaris Jackson rather than about winning and what’s best for the team. Coach Childress will always like Tarvaris Jackson more than I do, so the fact that Childress began giving up on him last year and has attempted to bring 3 veterans in to to compete with TJ this year tells me all I need to know about what is best for the team. Jackson will probably get another chance via injuries or another retirement if Favre is in the picture, so everyone can calm down on this subject for a while.
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