Vikings 2009 record part 1
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Jun 14, 2009 8:54 PM CDT
16 comments
As of today, Brett Favre is not a member of the Minnesota Vikings. In all likelihood, he will be wearing purple and gold entering training camp. But that is a month and a half away. There is no telling what will happen between now and then.
Right now, the Vikings have two QBs battling for the top spot. The first is Tarvaris Jackson, who was drafted by Childress 4 years ago now, and has gotten better each year. The other QB is Sage Rosenfels, who was traded for in the off season to compete for the starting position. Sage is, at the very least, a better version of Gus Frerotte.
Both of them bring something different to the table. Both of them are competing to lead a team that is capable of making it to the superbowl. Both are under a lot of pressure. Two of them will compete. One will win.
Here is my question to you: What will the Vikings record be in 2009 with either Sage or Tarvaris as the starting QB? Tarvaris/Gus Frerotte took the team to a 10-6 record and a division title last year. There is no doubt in my mind that this years version of TJack will be better then last years, and Sage is better than Gus. Add to that this year's easier schedule, and the Vikings should be in good shape. What do you think?
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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My take
There is no denying you guys are good, no matter how much I might wanna haha. You have the best run game in the league. You have the best dline in the game. The rest of your D is ver, very solid also. I think your D is just a couple of steps away from being mentioned in the same sentence as the Steelers, Ravens, Giants, and Eagles.
The only 2 questionable things in my mind are the QB, and the special teams. I know a lot of people might not think ST is that big of a deal, but it really is. Your ST, pretty much lost you the game against us, and the Bears last year. (There are prob more, I just don’t remember). Just taking those two losses away puts you guys at 12-4. The QB is another thing. We all know the deal there. So many people have said it, and it’s really true. “You guys are a QB away from the SB”. I personally don’t think Jackson is the answer. I just don’t think he has shown enough improvement, to really prove he deserves to be the starting QB. I think Sage could be, but in order for him he will have to change his “big play” mentality. It sounds easy to do, but we all know how that goes. I can see Favre playing and I think he will end up doing so. I think him at QB, could get you guys 2-3 more wins.
As for your record in the 2009 season, I feel it will be 11-5. I look at the schedule, and yes there a lot of hard teams also. Us twice, Bears twice, Steelers, Giants, Ravens, Panthers, and Cardinals are all teams who could make the playoffs. I know that most of you will say that you will sweep us and the Bears but I doubt it. It rarely ever happens, and I think this year, all of our teams could be the division winners. I think you guys could go 3-1 against us this year, but I think it could be 2-2 if the Williams are out Week 4 against us. I think your record against the other 5 teams will be, 3-2 or 2-3. Those are all very good teams, and most of them only improved. The Steelers will have a healthy Big Ben, and there D is just SO good. The Giants lost Plax, which really hurts them, but that D is still great and they picked up a lot of good FA’s. Flacco will be better this year, and as a result the offense will be better, which is something they desperatley need. The Panthers are a very good team. They will have Steve Smith healthy and back, and they have a young D, that should only get better. The Cardinals are great on O, and the addition of Beanie Wells could be huge! There D is solid also, and if they play the way they did in the playoffs, they could be a nightmare for teams.
It’s going to be a very interesting year. There is so much parity in the NFL, and it’s impossible to really tell who will be good and who won’t. We’re just going to have to wait and see. That’s my take on things. (Keep in my mind I’m biased, but I tried to throw that out the window when evaluating your upcoming season). Hope to hear from all you on this as well, and I’m sure I will!
by packallday555 on Jun 15, 2009 2:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
our division games
are usually won by the home team. (unless it’s Detroit) As for predictions, I don’t know yet. I want to see how well you guys transition from a 4-3 to 3-4 defense before I do so. The bears traded orton for cutler cough cancer cough this off season. It’s just my opinion, but I think Orton and Cutler are the same QB, just with different attitudes. Remember cutler had all those options in Denver, options he doesn’t have anymore, so it’ll be interesting. As for us, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Our special teams will be a liability, however punting out of bounds isn’t that hard, so we’ll try that hopefully. For Detroit, well they’re Detroit, that’s all I’m gonna say
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose: it's how drunk you get. ~Homer Simpson
by thewild_viking_twins on Jun 15, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I was noticing that too! I don’t know that Cutler is a cancer, but after reviewing Orton’s stats, I couldn’t see where Cutler was a substantial upgrade. If a team didn’t have a guy like Orton, yeah, you sell your soul if necessary to bring in a Cutler. But when you have Orton already, that’s an awfully high price to pay for a marginally better QB.
by DCPurple on Jun 15, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think the vikings will sweep the pack this year. this isn’t a against you packallday555, i just don’t see them transitioning to the 3-4 smoothly. no team has every made the transition in one year. it’s a personnel deal. you guys don’t have the defensive personnel for a 3-4. it usualy takes about 3 years to completely switch. you have some good players on D and i like the raji pick. but some of those good players won’t be able to make the switch and will be let go or traded in the next year or two. and as we all know, draft picks don’t always work as expected.
saying all that, i see our first matchup with pack going to us. you’re third game with a brand new defense. it won’t be pretty either. well, it will be for us. i see us rolling and beginning to peak in our second matchup so again i see us sweeping the pack this year.
last year’s 10-6 record + improved qb play + improved special teams play = 12-4
by iseepurplepeople on Jun 15, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respect..
your opinion. I know the D is hard to transition too. There really is no arguing it because no team has ever improved their numbers the next year. I know our numbers were bad last year, and I don’t think by any means our D is a great or even a very good one. I know I have said this before and I know a lot of the time it’s a cop out when people say it but….injuries. Injuries KILLED us last year. We were 26th against the run this year. But that was without Jenkins( who is our best run stopping Dlineman), Barnett (a very, very good MLB, especially against the run), Harris (who is great against the pass, and is really a pretty good run stopping cb). Those 3 are all Pro Bowl type guys when their healthy. Our run D in 2007, with all the same players, was 14th against the run. That’s not great by any means but it’s better then average, and is a huge upgrade from 26th. We switched to the 3-4 to help get more pressure on the QB, and to stop the run game. With those 3 back healthy, I think we will be right around 12th-18th to league, which is really all we need it to be, because of how good our pass D is.
I agree we don’t have ALL the personnel for the move, but I think we do have 6 of the 7. Jenkins RE, Pickett/Raji NT, Kampman ROLB, Matthews LOLB, Barnett and Hawk ILB’s. Barnett is great against the rush, and so is Hawk ( it’s his “forte” if you will, his knock is he struggles in coverage.) Jenkins is a prototypical 3-4 DE, and has already proved he is a good player. Matthew fits all the requirements of a 3-4 OLB. He is fast, good in coverage, and most importantly is great rushing the QB. Of course there is always a chance he will become a bust, but I don’t really think there is anything that would lead anybody to expect he will be. Kampman, I also think will do fine as an OLB. I know a lot of people will disagree with me here but at least hear me out. Kampman is only 265 lbs. Thatt is vastly undersized for a 4-3 DE. He rushes the QB so well because of his speed, and his technique. He is great at shedding blocks, and can also overpower OT’s. He won’t have any problem getting to the QB, because ultimately that’s what he does, sacks the QB, and looking at his stats there is no denying that. He could struggle in coverage, and probably initially will. He does though have the speed to cover, ( ran a 4.71 40) and also the experience (played LB at Iowa in college). It has also been said many times that, most of the time he will be rushing the QB. Pickett/Raji at the NT should be good too. Pickett has proved himself as a good run stopper, and the sky seems to be the limit for Raji. He is big 337 lbs., has a low center of gravity 6 ft, and is very athletic and nimble for his size (so much so that there have been talks of him play at the LE position. If that works out then that would solve the LE question, but still it is in question. I think overall next year our D will be a little above average, or average, and that really is all we need. Our offense was 8th overall last year, and will improve next year with Rodgers having a year of experience under his belt. I think you guys could possibly sweep us, but I think looking at past years it’s safe to say that you won’t.
Sorry this was such a long post haha. I’m just not tired at all, and so bored. O and I’m curious iseepurple…Do you really think if the Williams Wall is out against us Week 4 you will beat us at Lambeau?
by packallday555 on Jun 16, 2009 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if it’s true for other teams, but perhaps part of the reason you guys sank from 14th to 26th against the run was because teams realized that COULD run on your defense, like we did. Peterson didn’t get many carries during your 13-3 year. In fact it seemed like Childress was purposefully cutting him off. Last year was different, we fed him the ball and he put up around 300 yards on you in two games. Sort of like how we were 1st against the run (because teams rarely ran) but last against the pass (because that’s all they did) a couple years ago. You know what I mean? Like it was covered up before, but then last season teams realized it and found a strategy to overcome your defense.
About Kampman, I’ve read a couple articles already about how he’s really doing terrible at the OLB position. It’s harder for him to shed blocks, I guess, and he’s not sure what he’s doing on certain plays. That’ll probably change with time, but next year is going to be painful to watch I think. Your offense will, of course, be your most dangerous part of the team.
by Frost on Jun 16, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Something makes me think coaches would be smart enough to realize that we “could be run on”. In 07’ teams attempted to run on us 434 times and in 08’ teams attempted to run on us 450 times. 16 attempts isn’t that much of a difference, so I don’t think it’s just that coaches realized we could be run on. In 07’ we gave up 3.8 yards per attempt compared to 4.6 yards in 08’. Like I said above, blaming it on injuries could be viewed as a cop out in many cases, but I really think saying our run d declined because of injuries is a valid claim. 3 of the 5 players we lost to injuries last year are primarily run stoppers, or at least that is there “strong suit” (Jenkins, Barnett, Bigby).
As far as Kampman goes, you should post those links that you have read because I really haven’t been able to find any articles on him. I kind of doubt he is having trouble shedding blocks just because that skill is what makes him a great pass rusher (it’s certainly not his overpowering strength and size, 265 lbs.), but of course I don’t know for sure. I would expect for him to be lost on plays still, because he is learning an entirely new defense. I’m sure by the time the season rolls around he will know what’s going on.
by packallday555 on Jun 19, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good post packallday! i see all your packer optimism coming through!. however i don’t see your d being even at the low end of your predicted spectrum (18th). true you had injuries last year, but you’re expecting two rookies to produce. one of them will be a bust unless you guys seriously hit the jackpot, it’s just the law of draft averages. i honestly think kampman won’t be a packer after this season, maybe next. i see what you’re saying and your points have merit, i just feel he’s much more suited to a 4-3 and will be at best vanilla in 3-4. not saying you won’t have a good d in a year or two, but not this year. i see your d ranked in the mid 20’s this year.
as for the williams wall. i don’t like to lump them together like that. i like both players and think they are great, but kevin is far and away the better lineman. pat plays the run and then goes and sits on the bench. his backup fred evans is a very good dlineman and would probably start for a lot of other teams. there’s a bit a drop there against the run but not a whole lot. kevin is the bigger problem and keep in mind at this point they may not be suspended or it may drag on another year. add to all of this that you guys have at best a moderate run game and i don’t think the williams’ will have much affect on the outcome of the game. it’s an early season game so the weather shouldn’t be a factor which would help you and hurt us. also i think we got better this year and you guys have laid the groundwork to be better next year but this year will take a step back.
so to answer your question, yes i really think we’ll beat at lambeau and i think we’ll beat you handily.
by iseepurplepeople on Jun 16, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely. I think Kampman is more suited in a 4-3 hands down, but more so I think he is a very good football player, and for that reason I think he could find a way to be successful in the 3-4. I know relying on two rookies isn’t very reliable but I don’t think it’s out of the question to think that both of them will produce. If you go and look back at the top 10 picks in every draft, almost every single player has become very good or an absolute stud. (the ones that haven’t tend to be qb’s and wr’s). So just based off of that I think it’s safe to say Raji won’t be a bust, and that’s not even looking at everything he brings to the table as a player. Matthews could turn out to be a bust but I don’t think so. He was a walk-on at USC his freshmen year, and was 6’ 1’’ 180 lbs. His senior year, he was 6’ 3" 240 lbs. He led the team in sacks, and then put up excellent numbers at the combine. He seems to just be coming into his own, and his potential really is scary.
Your right, they might not even get suspended, but if they do I think it will make a huge difference. Grant ran 12 times for 92 yards against you Week 1 and then 16 times for 75 yards against you Week 10. I’m not buying that if both of them are out, that our run game won’t be able to get it done against you guys, because our run game got it done against you guys Week 1 and Week 10 when they both were playing!!! It’ll be interesting to see how the suspension situation plays out.
by packallday555 on Jun 19, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree mostly with you pack's analysis . . .
But I think an 11-5 record with TJ or Sage at QB is not likely. The problem is I don’t think thier performance will win games in then 4th quarter, so if you get behind and you need them to get you back, it may be trouble. I think 4-2 in division is about right with 2 wins over detriot. GB new D is a question, but the bears will be better. I also give you St Louis as an easy game since they don’t match up well against your tough run d. Seattle, SF, Cincinnati and to a lesser extent Cleveland are real question marks for me this year. I just keep looking at them and I don’t know, they could be 4-12 or 10-6 teams. League parody is really working. I give the vikings 3-1 against those 4.
The 5 other games are against other playoff teams from last year (Pitt, Baltimore, Giants, Carolina, Cards) and 3 of them are on the road, so I’m gonna say 2-3 in those 5. So I am thinking 10-6, which is actually a higher number than I thought it would be when I started. Go vikes, except when you play my Cards!
I will add this, I think you will be in control of your destiny and those last three games are key down the stretch.
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Jun 15, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i will be disappointed if we end up at 10-6 again and don’t have the division won before the last game.
by iseepurplepeople on Jun 15, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have to agree Packallday
It is tough to swep our division and with the Williams wall in jeoprody, it will be difficult.
I voted 11-5. Unless by some miracle BF comes in and shocks us all with a banner year, but I am not counting on that. Even with BF it might well be 11-5.
Green Bay and Chicago are always a threat. It is a 3 way circle where no matter how bad one of the teams may be it is not a given in the win line.
I would even tell the Vikes to be looking out for Detroit. We gave them some breathing room last year despite winning. These kittens don’t want to look bad for too long and you can bet they will fire up enough to get 4 wins-but against who?
by CitrusFLViking on Jun 15, 2009 12:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
12-4
The special teams has been addressed either FA or draft or through health. Our special teams captain from 07 will be back after missing all of 08. He averaged out at almost 2 special team tackles a game. Thats huge. Paymah and Asher and Brinkley will all be great special teams players. Our return game should be upgraded from the pathetic display last year with the addition of Harvin.
i have a loss to Detroit, Chicago, Cardinals, Pittsburgh.
Detroit? why? because they cut 23 players from last year and have signed 22 new players which are some very talented players. They got a great core of Linebackers in Ernie Sims/Larry Foote/Julian Peterson. Hell, thats a fantasy LB core. Then add in the addition of CB’s Anthony Henry from Dallas and Phillip Buchanon. HUGE UPGRADE at defense. On offense, they have the most talented reciever in Calvin Johnson and a great #2 in Bryant Johnson. High potential in pettigrew and a solid catching RB in Kevin Smith. It will come down to how well Culpepper does with a still below average O-line, and if its worth putting stafford in with no pass blocking.
Detroit will surprise. Vikes will too. I have a feeling alot of pieces have been added lately to allow our QB to succeed. Our QB will be the biggest surprise in 09’. Thus. 12-4.
Skol
by PurpleJesuZ on Jun 15, 2009 8:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree..
with everything you said about the Lions. I know they were a joke last year but that’s mainly because of their D, and it is at a completely different level then it was at last year. Their LBing core could EASILY be the best of our division next year, and their DB’s are much improved too. Jackson at DT is a huge upgrade too. I think their D too could and probably will be right around average. The wr’s are good with Megatron, Johnson, and Curry. Kevin Smith is a great rb, and like you said I think it will just come down to their oline play. Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if they had 2-3 wins in divison play this year. They played you guys tight twice, played us tight once, and played the Bears tight once. Now factor in that was the worst team in the history of the league, and look at how much they improved, and it really doesn’t seem so ridiculous to think they could win 2-3 in division games.
by packallday555 on Jun 16, 2009 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree the additions you mentioned are an upgrade (how could they not be?) but i don’t think they are that far above. five years ago yes that would have been a heck of defense behind the dline but there’s a reason these guys are all playing in detroit now. i think if their d is average it will exceed expectations.
by iseepurplepeople on Jun 16, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
11-5, but hopeful for more
Right now, as I see it, they go 10-6 without favre, and 12-4 with him. I know that we have the shaky QB and all, but the rest of the team is very good, and all the people brought in over the last 2 or 3 seasons are starting to jell and I think it will. Favre can be the difference in those 2 or 3 games, like in Indy and Chicago last year. We will win the North and hopefully do something in the playoffs!
by Frozen Toews on Jun 15, 2009 11:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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