Pick the Stat Lines: Quarterbacks
by Anthony21 on Jun 28, 2009 8:24 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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PrintIt's quiet right now. There has literally been nothing new in the news lately, so I'll throw this topic out there: What would be your predicted stat lines for the three Vikings quarterbacks who have all been, at some point, a possible starter? If they were to play all 16 games this season, what numbers would we see from T-Jack, Rosenfels and Favre?
I'll get things started with my predictions...
Jackson: 3,000 passing yards, 20 TDs, 9 INTs, 61% completion
Rosenfels: 3,500 passing yards, 23 TDs, 16 INTs, 64% completion
Favre: 3,700 passing yards, 26 TDs, 18 INTs, 65% completion
I see Favre ending up somewhere between his 2007 and 2008 passing yardage totals (4,155 in 2007 and 3,472 in 2008), and yes, I also see him breaking the one interception per game mark. But that just comes with the Brett Favre territory, and his ability to put up more yardage through the air than Jackson or Rosenfels should make up for that.
When making my predictions, I especially struggled with T-Jack's stat line -- when you take a look back at his numbers from last season, you've gotta be impressed with the lack of turnovers you see in the game logs, but I'm just not sure I could expect him to finish the season with a 200 yard per game average. I'm interested to see what folks in the comments come up with for Action Jackson's stat totals if he were to start all 16 games this season.
So, with that, what are your predicted stat lines for these three quarterbacks?
Update:
A couple commenters have noted my ommission of any win-loss records, so let's throw this one out there as well: What record do the Vikings finish the season with if each of these quarterbacks is at the helm for a 16-game season? I'd say 10-6 under either T-Jack or Rosenfels, with Favre being worth an additional win or two.
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If those were accurate, T-Jack would be our best option.. Especially with our running game. And I kind of agree with your prediction. But here’s my (slightly) different prediction:
Jackson: 2,800 passing yards, 20 TDs, 10 INTs, 64% completion
Rosenfels: 3,400 passing yards, 23 TDs, 15 INTs, 60% completion
Favre: 3,500 passing yards, 24 TDs, 20 INTs, 63% completion
I think (hope) we’ll be a good team with any of the three options. As you might of guessed I do not want Favre. And I’m probably stupid to think that T-Jack could still be the answer. I just can’t get those last four regular season games out of my head. He struggled big time when it mattered, but a lot of QB’s do without any playoff experience. Hell, Favre has had some terrible playoff games in his career. In fact, he’s straight up lost some games for his teams…
by PurplePeopleEaters on Jun 28, 2009 8:43 PM CDT reply actions
I really don't think...
Tarvaris’ completion percentage would be that high. 55-60% is more likely. Sixty-four percent would be INSANELY good. I could definitely see the other stats, though; 20-10 seems likely and less than 3,000 is almost a given considering the offense.
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Agreed
64% is too high.
But, it is not impossible. If he is not playing from behind as often and having to pass to catch up, as well as having Harvin and Rice catching balls, we could see a big jump in completion percentage.
TAvaris Jackson
has had his chance
he has had plenty of itme to show he can do it
and i dont rele believe those 4 games are a good indication of him
plus there was no real pressure or expectations on him
thats when he plays his best
when he gets into high pressure games he struggles
favre is no stranger to pressure games
pplus kust having him will make defenses to drop off peterson, even if they are looking to pick off favre more than to respect him
rosenfels was a backup and still is a backup
Plenty of time, huh?
Jackson was drafted as a 3-4 year project at MINIMUM and was thrown into the game his first year in the league.
Of course he is going to be terrible. What, did you expect him to just magically figure out arguably the most complicated position in professional sports?
Jackson has shown improvement every year, and that is all we can ask of him. He is not a prototypical pocket-passer. He is a scrambler. Yet for some reason if he doesn’t put up 300+ yards a game and 3 TD’s he is a terrible QB.
You should expect Michael Vick-style numbers out of him, as a matter of fact he had a better completion percentage his rookie year than Vick has EVER had.
Jackson
also only played in 2 games his rookie year and while I’m not sure I would think vick played almost if not the whole season
sugar + water + purple
by Grape Drank on Jun 29, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point.
Ok, so his second year with 12 starts he had a better completion percentage than Vick has EVER had in his entire career.
Is that better?
My prediction
Jackson: 3200 yards combined (2900 passing, 300 rushing) 22 TDs (3 rushing) 10 INTs. 62%
Rosenfels: 3300 yards passing 19TDs, 14 INTs. 63%
Favre: 3700 yards, 29 TDs, 17 INTs. 66%
I think Favre has another year or two in him, and I really think TJack will be our starter after that. Sitting behind Brett Favre for a year or two is going to do this kid a world of good. I think we can all agree he has the physical tools to get the job done. He just needs to work on the mental aspect of the game. Favre is one of the all time best. I can’t wait to see Jackson prove all the haters wrong!
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Jun 28, 2009 8:54 PM CDT reply actions
Jackson : 2800 – 18 TDs 10 INTs – AD 1600 yds
Sage : 3700 – 30 TDs 20 INTs – AD 1800 yds
Favre : 4000 – 32 TDs 16 INTs – AD 2000 yds
I feel with newly found balance on offense this year, this team could put up some monster #s. This is why I included the AD factor.
Sage to me is the biggest question mark. I really don’t know what to expect from him. I want to think that he could be great, but what are you basing your opinions on?
Jackson would show flashes, get me excited, and come up short in the first or second round of the playoffs. In a couple years he may turn out to be awesome, but for now, it would be a let down in the end.
Favre is ready to shock the world. The doubters will be shut up in due time. By week 6 the Vikings will be dominating and AD will be on pace to continue his assent stat wise. Rice and Shiancoe will be fantasy gifts to the owners that draft them. Garrett Mills will be putting up respectable enough #s that desperate owners pick him up off the free agent wire as well.
4000 / 16 = 250
In 2007 he put up over 4100, and he’ll be on a better offense this year. 4000 is not far fetched, in fact I was being conservative, I could see 4500 as a high end guess.
4000 would be out of reach if he were on a team that is built around the passing game.
We are a run-first offense, and will likely still be leaning towards the run more than the pass.
I agree with Bjorno
He got those numbers pretty much after our 1st meeting that year and they decided to go 4 and 5 wide.
Chilly doesn’t pass first, he runs and runs and runs until we’re down by two or more TDs then he gets pass happy.
I think alot of ppl are forgetting it doesn’t matter who’s QB when your coach giving you a soft jumbo line up and expecting some down the field passing with just 1 WR and a TE up the seam.
and if I see that effin" naked bootleg fake to AD i might just scream!!!
by midnightwonder on Jun 29, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
your o
This year will not be better this year then ours was in 07’. He put up those numbers because we have arguably the best wr core in the league. Yes, our run game doesn’t compare to yours but your wr’s don’t compare to ours either. I think 4, 000 yards is a little far fetched. Keep in mind our offense was number 2 in the league behind only the Patriots.
by packallday555 on Jun 29, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Think though...
As stated elsewhere, 4000/16 = 250. That’s not that hard to grasp. Rosenfels should be capable, Tarvaris better be at this point in his career, and the Old Man could probably do it in his sleep, if he doesn’t break his leg getting out of bed with those brittle bones.
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It kind of is
If you go and look at the top 10 Qb’s toal passing yards for the season, you will find most of the average pass yards per game is somewhere between 250-280. I think Favre might be able to do that, but your offense just doesn’t support those types of numbers. Your offense is and should be a run first one. For Favre to put up those kind of numbers, he would need 28-36 attempts a game. That would take away from AP and Taylors carries and ultimately I think it would hurt you guys.
Jackson is absolutely NOT capable of those numbers and I think Sage maybe is.
by packallday555 on Jun 29, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed.
Jackson is not that type of passer.
To expect more than 200 yards passing, 1-2 TD’s and maybe 40 yards rushing is asking too much of the guy.
Now, if Childress was smart enough to gameplan around Jackson’s ability, he could be a viable option. Considering the fact that Childress is a west-coast kind of guy, you would think that would fit right into his plan. But nooooooooooooooo.
its so true
jackson is a different type of quarterback and I don’t think he has ever been given the chance to utilize his skills because of our head coach’s KAO
sugar + water + purple
>>This year will not be better this year then ours was in 07’.
I’m sorry. did you guys win the Super Bowl in 07’? If not, then I would say the Vikes can do better.
>>Yes, our run game doesn’t compare to yours but your wr’s don’t compare to ours either.
the Viking WRs are a lot closer to GB’s WR’s than GB’s RB’s are to the Viking RB’s.
I get that the Vikings have been, and are, a run first offense. I expect that to stay that way. But I don’t care about the philosophy of the offense. When you’re trying to win, you use what works. If you have a great TE, you use him. I would think Childress will dial up Favre more than he did Jackson, and Favre will be more successful than Jackson when he’s called upon.
The running game will help the passing game and vice versa. I expect the Viking offense to improve in both the air and ground games with Favre. 4000 yards is not the ceiling of a successful QB year anyhow.
I wasn't
Saying your TEAM will not be better then ours, I was saying your OFFENSE will not be better then ours was in 07’. Like I stated above we were 2nd in the league in total offense. I don’t feel like your offense is capable of being that good, unless you get a healthy Favre and even then it would be a stretch.
I would have to disagree with your second statement, and the stats I found also say otherwise. In 08’ your running backs rushed for 2,338 yards. Ours rushed for 1,805 yards. That is a difference of 533 yards. In 08’ our receivers had 4,044 receving yards. Yours had 3,217 receving yards. That’s a difference of 827 yards.
Obviously, the QB throwing them the ball plays a big factor in it as well. But so does the o-line blocking for the rb’s, and yours was much better then ours.
I would rank your rb’s 1st in the league. I would rank our rb’s somewhere between 14th-18th. I would rank our receving corps 1st-2nd. I would rank yours somewhere between 18th-22nd. I base that off of previous stats and just my opinion of the players at those postitions.
by packallday555 on Jun 29, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with your assesments
I think for the most part you are very knowledgeable, and use logic and reason in your arguments. I don’t think the Vikings offense will be able to top what Green Bay’s was in 07. I do think that with a healthy Farve, we could come close tho. There is no question that GB has a top 5 WR corp. Probably even top 3. (Arizona is far and away the best WR corp in the NFL.)
Vikings have assembled a pretty decent WR group this year tho, and I think Favre could take advantage of their abilities better than Sage or Tarvaris would.
Berrian led the league in YPC last season, and he played most of the year with turf toe.
Shank has emerged as a top 10-15 TE.
Rice is entering his 3rd season, and needs to play well. He has the potential to be a very good WR (6’3", 4.5 40-yard time, very good hands).
Percy Harvin is an unknown considering he isn’t a true WR, but he is blazing fast and can run and catch the ball.
Bobby Wade is very reliable.
Factor in our running game, and the Vikings have the POTENTIAL to be a top 5-10 offense. Only problem is our head coach. If he can pull his head out of his ass, we could have a very dominant season.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Jun 30, 2009 2:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Good points
I agree with a healthy Favre you guys could come very close. I’m glad that you can see I actually do try and use logic and reasoning in my comments. Ya now that I look it at I don’t think we’re better then Arizona. Fitz and Boldin is just wayy too good, plus Breaston.
by packallday555 on Jun 30, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
the fact that you have to look at it is quite telling. I will admit that GB has some good WRs, but Fitz is probably the best WR in the game now. And Boldin would be a solid #1 on most teams as well, including GB.
Do you use Madden to evaluate WRs?
Haha no I don't
Though I am a big fan of the game and am an avid player. I say it because looking at the last 2 years our receivers have ranked 2nd and 7th in the league. Jennings is quickly becoming an elite wr, and driver is a very, very solid slot guy who could be a #1 guy on some teams. Then we have James Jones who had a great rookie year in 07’, 47 catches for 647 yards and 3 tds, but didn’t play much this past year due to injury. Plus, Jordy Nelson, who has shown the potential to be a really solid, big possession wr. He also had some decent stats, 33 catches for 366 yards.
I guess the reason I ever considered it was because I was looking at the last two years, and also looking at depth. But I think Breaston having an 1,000 yard season this past year as the #3 guy, plus Fitz being the best in the game, and Boldin probably being top 10, pretty much gives them the #1 ranking hands down.
by packallday555 on Jul 1, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
this is true
as much as I hate to admit it green bay has a very solid recieving group. Aaron Rodgers proved last year that it wasn’t just Favre that made them good wide outs
sugar + water + purple
Here's the difference between the three
Opposing D’s will respect Favre based on his past but they will not fear him because of his age; and just like he makes big plays, he also gives them up.
Sage has to prove himself and be a smarter player.
TJack will be tested and challenged to beat teams with his arm.
My prediction:
Favre 25 TD’s 17 Int’s
Rosey 23 TD’s 17 Int’s
Tjack 24 TD’s 11 Int’s (5 rushing TD’s)
Best option? TJack because he can make plays with his feet and he protects the ball better
Jackson- 3157 yards, 22 TD, 11 INT, 58%
Sage- 3552 yards, 25 TD, 10 INT, 62%
Favre- 3847 yards, 28 TD, 12 INT, 66%
by All Day, All Night on Jun 28, 2009 9:58 PM CDT reply actions
Personally...
I think his ceiling is 3857. Seriously, get your facts straight.
=)
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I don't know
But I find it interesting Anthony that you give Favre more INT than Rosenfels, when even with the injury and horrible finish, last year Favre actually had a much better INT/TD ratio than Rosenfels did (6 TD/10 INT)
Like I said, I have no idea myself what the stats would be — among other things, I think Favre’s INT count will depend heavily on if the Vikings have a lead or are trailing more often in 4th quarters, that’s when Favre really starts to gamble, and I’m sure there are similar external factors that would affect Rosenfels total too — but these relative aspects of yours did catch my eye. I guess I’m surprised you (and others) are that high on Sage.
I personally would assume that Favre will be healthy if he is playing, and therefore only look at his stats when healthy (i.e. exclude last 5 games of 200*), but I can understand others looking at it differently.
I guess I just scanned over the game logs from the periods over the last couple seasons when he was healthy — and I came to the general conclusion that, more or less, we can expect about one interception per game from Favre. That’s roughly his average in 2008 if we scratch his horrible finish from last season’s stat totals, so I think it’s a reasonably conservative guess. I do see what you’re saying regarding Rosenfels, but he did, of course, only play six games last year. If you look at the stats from all three seasons in Houston, his TDs and INTs are almost dead even (24 TDs and 23 INTs).
How Favre & Rosenfels would do relative to one another, is one question we’ll never know the answer to (short of travelling to some alternate reality a la Sta Trek)
But I guess I’m still not sure I understand your methods. You repeat that you are using averages of Favre recent stats as the basis for your predictions for him, but then (as you show by quoting Sage’s stats average yourself, above), you don’t do that for Sage, you give him better than what he’s historically had. Now all those stats are kinda meaningless anyway because they are with completely different teams, different receivers, lines, playbooks, etc., but … if you tried to adjust at all for that, i would think that you’d give the extra benefit of the doubtt to Favre, not Rosenfels. Favre had not-so-great receivers last year, and came into a position (team) where multiple other QBs had not done well for years. And there is some strong justification taht it is not the fault of the QB — just look at the step up in production Pennington got once he escaped the Jets — even going to a 1-15 team helped him. Meanwhile, Rosenfels had Andre Johnson (a top 5 receiver IMO, especially his yac numbers, which i think led the nfl?) and was playing in a position where Matt Schaub proved another QB could put up BIG numbers — I just looked up and he had over 3,000 yards in 11 games, that is a > 4,000 yard pace.
Again, I still hesitate to make absolute predictions, but the more I think of this, the more I think you underestimate the size of the gap between Rosenfels and Favre.
p.s., though I haven’t said so explicitly, note I am steering totally clear of saying anything about predicting TJack. Frankly, that’s the whole point with him — he’s so inconsistent and unpredictable that IMO it’s like throwing darts blindfolded.
I generally agree with most of these.
I think the total yards will be relatively even, with Favre having the most largely because we’d pass more with him.
The TD/INT ratio will probably be roughly 2:1 for Tjack and 3:2 for Sage and Favre. Favre would have the most TDs.
Completion percentage would be roughly even, 60-65%.
This is, of course, assuming each would play a full year.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Jun 28, 2009 10:25 PM CDT reply actions
10-6 for each.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Jun 29, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Stats are nice
Stats are nice but you left out the most important one..
How many games will they win!
Stats don’t determine who is considered great. The guy who can bring home the victory when the game is on the line is the only stat that counts.
Yards and Interceptions ?%????? What reallly matters ..............
Is WINS !!!!!!!!!!! Aren’t all of you losing sight of what really matters at the end of the game - THE SCORE !!! And if you ask me who I would want to lead the VIKINGS - there is no question – FAVRE. Maybe he will have more interceptions, but he’ll also SCORE when we need him to – somehow , someway, he gets it done. So let’s look at the BIG PICTURE, which not includes what happens during the game (yardage and interceptions), but also completions and setting up your team to score. I’ll take a pile of field goals if I have to win a game, Pittsburgh has done that so many times and Baltimore, but you have to get the ball down the field period -- and I believe FAVRE is much better equipped in that area than T-Jack and Rosenfels. He can read a field in a way the other 2 just can’t do yet - It’s called EXPERIENCE. I agree with a few of the others that T-Jack will gain alot sitting and watching Favre. I can’t wait till September !!! And all you vikings fans that don’t want Favre -— you gotta admit that if he starts for the Vikes - there will never be a dull game !!
Predictions from the eternal optimist
8,000 yards 50 TD’s..0 INT’s and a 100% completion Percentage LOL
Ok so..
I know this is a Vikes blog, but do you think any of your stats for Jackson are really realistic?? Yes, at the end of the year he improved and played better, but keep in mind the mediocrocy in all the defenses he faced.
I went and looked at Jackson’s stats and then some numbers from the defenses he faced. This is what I found…
In 6 games (I didn’t count the Titans game b/c he only threw 1 pass) Jackson threw for 1056 yards, 9 td’s, 2 ints, completed 59% of his passes, and lost 5 fumbles. Looking at those numbers, there are good things and there are bad things. The good are his td:int ratio of 9:2. That’s a fantastic ratio. The bad are the amount of fumbles he had 5 (in 6 games), completion %, and his passing yards (which comes to 176 yards a game.)
When looking at the defenses he faced I found some interesting things also. I looked particulary at his last 4 games (though I don’t feel it’s fair to count the gamee vs the Giants b/c he faced their second stringers the majority of it.) In Week 14,15, and 16 he faced the Lions, Cardinals, and Falcons. The Lions ranked 27th in pass yards against, and 30nd in passing tds against. The Cardinals ranked 22nd in pass yards against, and 32th in passing tds against. The Falcons ranked 21st in pass yards against, and 23rd in tds against. As all of you can probably see all of the passing defenses he faced in these 3 games were very weak. He threw for 4 tds against the Cardinals but they were the worst passing D in the league. I’m not trying to say that, that makes those tds a joke or anything, but it was done against a team who couldn’t stop anyone’s passing game (especially towards the end of the year.) His passing stats against the Falcons were pretty good, 233 passing yards, 2 tds, 0 ints, 61% completion rating, but 3 fumbles that really cost you the game.
I just want to say, I am not by any means trying to bash Jackson. In my opinion I just don’t feel he will ever be a good NFL starting QB. I don’t think he has the accuracy, or the ability to read coverages and handle blitzes. But I’m no professional so who knows, it’s just my opinion.
These are my predictions for Jackson, Sage, and Favre.
Jackson: 2,690 yards, 18 tds, 12 ints, 59% completion rating, 9 fumbles lost. He will probably have around 350 rushing yards, and 2-3 rushing tds also. I think with him you guys will win 10 games.
Sage: 3,200 yards, 22 tds, 18 ints, 63% completion rating, 4 fumbles lost. I think with him you guys will win 11 games.
Favre: 3,500 yards, 26 tds, 20 ints, 63% completion rating, 1-2 fumbles lost. I think with him you guys will win 12 games.
I think it’s obvious that Favre is the best option for you guys at QB. I think Sage could do even better then my prediction or worse. It could help him too finally be the guy or it could hurt him. Also not having a big, very skilled target like A. Johnson could hurt him.
Seriously dude? You’re gonna be that way?
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Jun 29, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd agree slightly...
I think Green Bay will win a good amount of games, but moreso because of the offense. In my humble opinion, they would be better sticking to the 4-3. In a few years, maybe not, but this year will be the Packers’ offense that does it.
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Favra..
Who were you saying seriously dude to?
by packallday555 on Jun 29, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I was replying to Murlock
His reply to you was mean-spirited and just dumb after you put forward a long, well-thought out and well-typed post. I love discussing football with rival fans, and his comment is the type of crap that’s discourages even trying.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Jun 29, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you
I feel the same way. I don’t post comments on here to try and start arguments but rather to share my opinions and maybe offer an opinion from a different perspective. I love the game of football, and I’m willing to talk about it with anybody, even if it with a Vikings fan….haha.
by packallday555 on Jun 29, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
His reply to you was mean-spirited and just dumb after you put forward a long, well-thought out and well-typed post.
(fart sound)
Whatever you think his "deal" may be
At least he was replying to your question.
You on the other hand, write “I don’t post comments on here to try and start arguments but rather to share my opinions and maybe offer an opinion from a different perspective. I love the game of football, and I’m willing to talk about it with anybody” & then when he replied to you, you proved that yes, you really do like to start arguements.
there’s difference between an arguement and a debate. for the most part, packallday starts debates.
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 1, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Me asking..
him what his deal is, was not me trying to start an argument. He has shown anger towards me in some of his recent replys to me and his last reply was immature and childish.
I said I’m willing to talk about the game of football with anybody, not fart noises, which have absolutely nothing to do with football.
by packallday555 on Jul 1, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm lost, but
the way I read it, newmexvike was actually supporting you, saying your post was well thought out, and criticizing Murlock for his comeback. Then he put some fart thing in there, which I confesss I didn’t get the point of either, but I don’t think he was trying to start an arguement by “farting,” just some generic thing. I dunno, maybe a brat and beer reference? Certainly no worse that “Viqueens”
Maybe he has other replies that are more critical which I haven’t seen, but other than the weird fart reference it seemed like he was nice to you in this one
DRINK, DRINK, DRINK
No, my sounds are directed at packallday (no relation to the real AD) and Farva. It’s as close as I can come to typing the sound one makes with their tongue when they spit and it sounds sorta like a fart, you know, a la Archie Bunker. I make this sound at them because I grow tired of their, “hey, I was just standing there being a nice guy, and you attacked me” crap. It’s all I can say about it.
Waa, so someone on a message board flames you (sorta). Do you wanna talk football or just keep adjusting your bunched up panties?
Here is what Murlock said to packlady, “I think with your 3-4 defense you will win 6 games and not improve at all.”. That bastard! Then these two go off telling him to quit being so harsh. Gimme a freaking break. And the way they’re looking out for each other. Good grief.
But, I’ve recently developed a new coping mechanism for this whining. I’ve decided to make a drinking game out of it and chug a beer every time I see a post that ultimately says “quit picking on me”. Hopefully I don’t need to check into rehab at some point.
good luck with that! hope you found some cheap beer or you’ll be broke long before rehab!
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 2, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Haha
Your awfully full of yourself aren’t you? The reason I complained about Murlock’s comment (if you even would call it that) was because it was unnecessary and didn’t relate at all to what I said.
I’m not sure where all the feminine jokes are coming from? I asked why you were so upset in some of your posts (which I still don’t get because like you once said, it’s only a football blog), and I then asked you to be civil. Does the fact that I do not express anger in my posts like you make me feminine?
Haha looking out for each other? I don’t know if I would consider it that. We probably just view things in the same way. Favra probably just recognized that I actually put forth effort in my post, and wrote it logically.
Murlock’s comment just wasn’t needed. Favra was right in saying responses like his, discourage even trying. Some fans are too blind to see any problems with their own team.
by packallday555 on Jul 2, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m actually playing a drinking game where I have to take a drink every time someone whines on the site. I was thirsty.
Reading your own posts then?
BURNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.
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Woot Woot!
Ha
That has nothing to do with the topic at hand. That’s all I’m going to say to that.
by packallday555 on Jun 29, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
There is a lot of love for Jackson...
But mainly because he has not gotten a fair shake.
He is never going to be an elite QB, that is for sure. But he certainly has the talent to be a top-15 or 20 QB in the league and that is all we really need of him.
With the talent he has around him and his physical gifts he can lead a team such as the Vikings a long way as soon as he stops trying to force the issue. That is his main fault, he tries to do too much. When he scrambles, he tries to spin through tackles. When he throws he tries to force it into coverage. He just needs to take a little bit off, realize that he doesn’t need to carry the team. That will cut down on the INT’s and fumbles.
Sure, he did great against mediocre defenses. Which is what we wanted, a good 4 game confidence builder. He can go into this year, sit behind Favre and work on his game and not feel like he was benched for poor performance.
I think sitting behind Farve will give him a good lesson on what NOT to do.
What are we going to do?
We’re paying Sage 9 million dollars, for a backup or possibly 3rd string. I say we trade Rosenfels.
Sage was brought in...
For competition; not to start right away. Even if Favre comes, he will still get the chance to compete for the starting gig next year, so trading him, after trading FOR him would be absolutely silly.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
>>We’re paying Sage 9 million dollars, for a backup or possibly 3rd string. I say we trade Rosenfels.
Last year the Jets traded Pennington, then when Favre got hurt, they were screwed.
IF Favre were to go down for any length of time, I believe Sage would be the next best QB. There isn’t a QB in the league that is tough enough to guarantee 16 games. All teams should have 2 good QBs, unless they are flat out rebuilding.
I think if I were Childress I would try to keep 4 QBs if I really felt Booty was the real deal. Otherwise Booty has to go. It would seem odd that if you think Booty is great that he’s not even your back-up.
I also think Favre is more than a one year guy. I won’t be surprised if the Vikes sign him to a 3 year deal. Not only for cap reasons, but because 43 would not be the oldest QB ever and it is Favre.
Really...Really?
Here’s a realistic projection for TJ’s sorry A#*:
2560 Yards
14 TD’s
17 Int
56% Comp
101 Excuses
by Thirteen Thoughts on Jun 29, 2009 10:03 AM CDT reply actions
Seventeen interceptions? Really? After he had, what, one in the last four games? Three if you count the playoff game against the #3 pass defense? (Pretty sure that’s what they were.)
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Jun 29, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Tjack
2500-3000 yards
19 TD, 16 INT
Probably 10-6
Rosencopter
3000-3500
21TD 19 INT
probably 10-6 as well
Favre
3000-3500
25TD 21INT
10-6 as well
haha that's great
Rosencopter. There are some funny videos on youtube that have been of his whole “helicopter incident”.
by packallday555 on Jun 29, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Is there Money on this?
Can I place an over or under bet?
I can see predicting a lot of things, but a player’s stats for the upcoming year seems a wee bit out there.
Unless we’re betting money, of course :)
Now that teams have some game film on TJ I think his stats are gonna fall like a rock
I think the question is can Chili and the running game control the gun slinger. I actually think Brett will be glad to hand the ball off to Adrian and I think the shovel pass and other short passes to Adrian will really rack up some yards. I am letting my opinion of who is the better QB enter into my figures as well. I am having trouble giving TJ a years stats cause I don’t think he will play a full year (chili will bench him at some point in time if he is the starter), but here goes:
TJ 2488 yds 12 TD 21 ints 53% comp 8-8 TJ will lose some games with mistakes at the end and when the team needs to come from behind he won’t be able to do it. 0-3 in come from behind games.
Sage 2880 yds 20 tds 15 int 60% comp 9-7 – When the teams leans on Sage he will play better than TJ. 1-2 in come from behind games.
BF 3480 yds 26 tds 14 int 63% comp 11-5 I would love to see BF play with a truly elite running back. If he can work within the framework of what the team already has it could be magical. I imagine 50+ yds a game on shovel passes and dumps to Adrian off the play action. I think with BF, Adrian could have games where he has 100+ yds in both running and receiving. I do think Adrian’s rushing yards drop off a little with Brett, but I think he would more than make up for it receiving out of the backfield. Brett will have a game like he did against the Cards last year at some point and just win it wholely on his own performance. Bret will also go 2-1 in comeback games.
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Jun 29, 2009 11:21 AM CDT reply actions
I think you're on the right track...
OK, so I may not agree with your crushing of TJack, and I do think that we have a great shot at winning the division with each of the aformentioned QB’s, there is one factor that Drullin’ picked up on that I’ve been thinking about a lot… PLAY ACTION!!!
This offense has the talent to run an extremely effective play-action passing game; the problem with TJack, and I think the majority of you will agree, is that nobody wants him turning his back to the line of scrimmage!!! I don’t know as much about Sage, but with BF under center, we could play-action a ton, handing off to AD, running the naked bootleg to Percy or Shanko or airing it out to BB on the fly…
I’d love us running the single back with AD or split backs with AD and Percy or Chester…
This formation also looks really nice for the Loki formation…
All in all I think we have 3 decent to good options at QB and no great ones, but we know that old man Favre can turn his back to the line of scrimmage…
I agree
You guys could win the division with any one of those QB’s. I just think Jackson gives you the worst chance at doing so, at least compared to the other two. I think Drullin is spot on with his analysis of Jackson. I think teams will watch film on him and see that he only looks to throw slant, out, or in routes. I think more teams will jump those routes, and I think that could cause some trouble for him. If he is forced to make a downfield pass, he is going to struggle because is not very accurate and he doesn’t read coverage well. I just don’t see him having that great of a year. Again, that’s just my opinion though.
So
I’m kind of hesitant to ask this but I’m going to anyways. A lot of people have questioned whether or not the Bears getting Cutler really will help them because of their wr play. I think it’s fair to ask the same question to you guys if you get Favre. I think the Bears wr core and your teams wr core are kind of similar.
Berrian is a good deep threat but that’s about all he is at this point. Wade is at best a #3 wr in this league. Rice could be good, but he seems to always be injured. I think in 2-3 years Harvin will be good, but at this point he is too raw. Shiancoe is good too, though he has had problems with catching in the past.
I think Hester is virtually the same wr that Berrian is. I don’t think he was as good as him last year, but I believe he will be this year. Rashied Davis is ok. He is a good route runner, but he is kind of slow and old. Earl Bennett is a young guy with potential but he has yet to prove himself. Iglesias seems to be the perfect fit for a slot guy but we will have to wait and see. Greg Olsen is very good young tight end. I think the addition of Cutler will help him a ton and consequently I think he will have a breakout this year. Desmond Clark is a solid tight end as well.
I’m interested to get your take on what Favre’s arrival will do for your receiving core, please share your thoughts!
Personally, I think our receivers have been hindered by coaching. It’s almost like they have the receivers draw straws to see who runs what route, instead of having them run routes that play to their strengths.
Rice for example is a big target with a great vertical and is excellent at snatching the ball out of the air. He reminds me of a slower Randy Moss in that respect. Yet instead of running a fade route to the corner of the end zone when we get there, I always see Rice catching low passes across the middle. Which is probably a big reason for his injuries.
Berrian, while being a very shifty receiver, doesn’t seem to have the top-end speed needed to be the deep threat we want. If we get him out in the open, he makes defenders miss left and right. But for the most part, we try to bomb it to him with only 1 or 2 successful attempts.
Wade is a great slot guy, but is getting up in age. He should be a great mentor for Harvin, as he is built the same and plays a similar game. Harvin will be taking over for Wade over the next couple of years.
Shiancoe had issues with hands, until he figured out how to catch the ball. I was livid that we even had the guy on the field considering the fact that Jim Kleinsasser is a decent receiving option. Though, he won’t be jumping over anyone like Wiggins… I missed that guy, until Shank-dog learned how to catch.
I think the locker-room flash on television gave him the confidence boost that he needed. Har har.
As far as what Favre is going to do for these receivers, that is a good question.
Favre had issues with the long ball last year, we can argue that was due to the injury and I hope that was the cause. If he gets the long ball back, I think his ability to look-off defenders should create some openings for Berrian deep and Harvin underneath. He will also be able to put the ball just out of the defenders reach, which should give Rice what he needs to have a breakout season.
Farve’s value to us is more than just a higher completion %, it’s like having another coach on the field. I doubt Chilly is going to limit his ability to audible on the line, like he does with Tjack. That will also allow us to take advantage of possible mismatches on the line, as well as additional dump-off options other than Tahi. Taylor and Shiancoe are going to be good safety valves for Favre, and we should see a decent jump in their yards this year.
As far as the Bears receivers… I honestly don’t think Hester is going to amount to much more than a #3 guy. He does not seem reliable enough to take that #1 position and I think it was a little too much of a gamble to try to make him more than just a returner/Slot Receiver.
Olsen is the real deal, he and Forte are probably going to be the best receivers on the team again this year. Iglesias is going to be better than people think, but not this year. He is going to need a little bit of time to adjust, but he should develop into a solid # 2 for the Bears.
Cutler, from what I have seen and heard, is not going to be happy with the receivers in ChiTown. Brandon Marshall and Robert Royal are legitimate studs. If you have two guys who excel at all aspects of receiving, and you go to two guys who are still trying to figure out how to run routes properly (Hester + Bennett) then you are going to get frustrated. When you are as sensitive as Cutler appears to be, you get even more frustrated and take it out on your team.
It remains to be seen if Cutler is who the media has made him out to be, but if he is then I would be worried if I were a Bears fan.
I'm actually offended! Hahaha
I think the Bear’s WR corp is one of the worst in the league. To compare the Vikings receivers to the Bear’s is just ludicrous! I’m not saying the Viking’s WRs are top 10 in the league, but I would put them in that 15ish range.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Jun 30, 2009 2:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I potentially would agree with that
If you get a good QB I think they could be right around that and probably even a bit higher. But as of now and last season you didn’t have a great QB, so you have to take that into consideration also. I don’t think the Bears will be one of the worst wr corps in the league this year. Hester did well last year and he should only improve, plus Cutler will help him too. Olsen is the real deal, and even their other te Clark is good too. I think they will be around 15ish this year.
I probably should have pointed out that I don’t feel the Bears are one of the worst receiving corps in the league. I think I now understand why you were so offended newmexvike and I’m sorry. I should have been more clear about that.
by packallday555 on Jun 30, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
i’m seriously looking for hester to have a break out year as a receiver. 1200+
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I get where you are coming from. You think the Bears WRs are decent. If that’s the case, name some teams that are worse than the Bears. I will need at least 8 to even begin to listen to this.
Hester/Olsen… oooooooo, scary!
Ok I'll do my best
Oakland Raiders- Haha I don’t think much needs to be said here.
Tennessee Titans- They have a receiving corps full of #3 receivers.
Baltimore Ravens- Best wr is an aging Mason. No depth after him.
St. Louis Rams- Lost Holt, who is now only average at best.
Cleveland Browns- Because now all they have is Edwards and he for the most part, was god awful last year.
Kansas City Chiefs- Bowe is good, but lost Gonzalez, and have no depth.
Cincinnati Bengals- Ocho cinco didn’t produce last year what so ever. Lost Houshz, and they have no one else.
Jacksonville Jaguars- The aging Holt leads a group of wr’s who have never panned out. Jones, Williamson, Williams.
I honestly think Hester will be an 1,000 yard wr this year, and I think Olsen will probably have 65-80 receptions, 750+ yards, and 8 tds. Iglesias will probably put up pretty decent numbers and Clark will be solid as he has been his whole career. Hester/Olsen really could be scary. Hester had 51 catches and 665 yards least season, and the Bears only had him playing maybe 1/3 of the game at wr at the beginning of the year. He improved a ton from 07’, 20 catches for 299 yards, and he has all the physical tools to be a really good wr. Plus, you have to take into account the addition of Cutler, and his strengths. Cutler’s strong arm and ability to throw the deep ball will only help Hester even more.
by packallday555 on Jul 1, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
although i would call hester/olsen scary. adequate? average? sure. scary? no.
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 1, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Right
Like I said Hester/Olsen COULD be scary. Are you saying right now you would call them adequate/average? Because you stated above you feel he will have 1,200+ yards. If that happens and Olsen does play very well this year I think they would be more then just adequate/average.
by packallday555 on Jul 1, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
i have no idea what olsen is capable of. i haven’t seen enough of him to make an educated guess. given my 1200 yard prediction for hester and an unknown in olsen (i can see him getting 700 maybe) i would call that average. 1200 yards is by no means scary for a receiver. good yes, but not scary. maybe if olsen puts up 1500 and hester gets 1200 you could call them scary good but i don’t see that happening.
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 2, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Olsen..
It would be safer to say Olsen will become very good, then it would be to say Hester will be very good. 700 yards for a te is by no means average. This past year 700 yards would have put him in 6th, in yards forr the season. If Olsen gets somewhere around 1,000 yards next year, which isn’t to much of a stretch that would put him up there with the elite te’s. If he got 1,500 yards he would be the first te to do so this decade. (there is no way he gets that many).
1,200 yards for a wr isn’t just good. Only 7 guys were above that mark this year and the highest topped off at 1,575. 1,200 yards is well above average. I think Hester is fully capable of having that many receiving yards too.
If Hester finished somewhere around the 1,200 mark and Olsen finshes somewhere around the 800 mark, they would have nearly as many, or more yards then Wayne/Clark, Witten/Owens, and Johnson/Daniels put up in 08’. I would call those 3 tandems pretty scary. But all that is just speculation. We’ll have to see how they do.
by packallday555 on Jul 2, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
my thoughts
Thinking of Hester, Olsen, and Bennett (the rookie won’t see the field much until the 2nd half of the season) as my comparison, here’s my take:
Raiders – you’re right
Titans – True, although Gage, Nate Washington, and Crumpler some close
Ravens – Wrong, Mason is still strong and Heap/Clayton crush Olsen/Bennett
Rams – right again
Browns – wrong, Edwards is a stud, he alone is better than Hester and Bennett, they also have Furrey, Patton, and Robert Royal at TE who was pretty good in Buffalo last year.
Chiefs – True
Bengals – way off, ocho-cinco, L. Coles, and Henry, not even close! All 3 are better than Hester.
Jaguars – Push – Holt is so much better than Hester, but depth is so bad in JAX that Williamson made the #4 spot.
Since you’re being such a good sport, I’ll tell you that you forgot the Jets (and the Packers of course). So in my mind that makes 5 and a half ok 6 teams that are worse off than Chicago. And it’s not like they are leaps and bounds better than half of those. Seems like the basement to me.
One more thought, you talk of the potential of Hester, Olsen and even the rookie on the Bears and how much better they will be. But dismiss the potential of Rice and Harvin. Not only does this not seem fair, but Rice entering his 3rd season is a huge potential point in fantasy football. I do expect him to take his game to the next level. The only reason I think me might not put up monster #s is because there a lot of people to give the ball to this year.
I hope I have not hurt your feelings too much by disagreeing with some of your points.
hahaha..
Never have you hurt my feelings so don’t worry about that.
I didn’t know Coles is on the Bengals had I known that I wouldn’t have included them.
I don’t think Holt is “so much” better then Hester. Last year, he had just 100 more receiving yards then Hester. But while Hester will only get better this year, Holt will likely only continue to decline.
It depends what Edwards we’re talking about. In 07’ he was an absolute stud. In 08’ he was an absolute bust. He put up very mediocore numbers, especially considering how many times they threw the ball his way. He also had tons of drops. I didn’t know that they got Furrey though, or Royal. So I’ll agree with you on the Browns too.
I don’t think Heap/Clayton crush Olsen/Bennett. Olsen had a much better season this past year, and also only looks to improve. Heap has been a big bust these last two. Clayton put up pretty good numbers. I would like to use R. Davis to compare to Clayton because Bennett doesn’t have any stats. Clayton had almost 200 more yards then Davis. I would say comparing those two are pretty even. Mason has been consistent. Putting up just over 1,000 yards these past two seasons. I think Hester easily has the potential to put up those exact same numbers. But he will score more then 5 tds, which is what Mason has had the last two years. But for now I will agree the Ravens are slightly better.
I would have listed the Jets had I known Coles wasn’t on the team any longer.
Haha the Packers? Our wr corps is probably the 2nd or 3rd best in the league.
I don’t dismiss Rice’s potential. I said I think he could be good, or at least he has all the tools to be. But the fact remains he is injury prone, and still has to prove he can stay on the field. As for Harvin he has a ton of potential. I just wouldn’t really consider him a true wr right now. I think he will be kinda like Ginn Jr. You guys will just use him as a flanker, until he polishes up his route running and catching.
I also based a lot of my comparisons on this past season. There were other teams this past season that I feel were worse then the Bears but then made improvements in the offseason. (Bills, Seattle, Tampa Bay, San Francisco) I also think now that Burress and Toomer are gone, the Giants possibly have a worse wr corps.
by packallday555 on Jul 2, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I’ve done this with Favre so lets see how every one else on the roster looks. Everyone throws the same # of passes as the Vikings did as a team last year. Use their comp% to find # of completions, their yards/comp to find their yards, and their TD/INT per completion to find their TD/INTs
Comp – Att – Yards – % – TD – INT
Jackson 267 – 452 – 3204 – 59.1 – 27 – 6
Rosenfels 301 – 452 – 3713 – 66.7 – 16 – 26
Farve 297 – 452 – 3006 – 65.7 – 19 – 19
It seems like the TD/INTs are a little off, but I think that is because Sage and Jackson didn’t play a full 16 games last year. If they had played a whole season I bet it would have just about evened out. Personally, I feel that Jackson can and will improve, but I think a TD/INT ratio of 4.5/1 is asking a lot of anyone (Rivers had a 3/1 and next best was Drew Brees at 2/1). I don’t think 21 TDs and 15 INTs would be expecting too much out of Jackson. As for Rosenfels, I think those numbers would be way closer to each other. I would project him to do about as well as Jackson though he hasn’t had that great of a TD/INT ratio throughout his career. I would say 23/18. So here it is now with my bias opinion included ;) :
Comp – Att – Yards – % – TD – INT
Jackson 267 – 452 – 3204 – 59.1 – 21 – 15
Rosenfels 301 – 452 – 3713 – 66.7 – 23 – 18
Farve 297 – 452 – 3006 – 65.7 – 19 – 19
I would still like to see what Jackson can do and if he can be anything close to this projection, but at the very least, I wouldn’t be too worried about Sage being in there.
good numbers
Interesting that you feel Favre would have the least amount of passing yards. If you don’t mind me asking, why do you think that?
Like I said I got their passing yards by taking their yards/comp and multiplying it by the number of completions and got the completions by multiplying their ‘08 comp % and the number of pass attempts the Vikings attempted last year as a team. I didn’t set out to give Favre less yards (he has more completions than Jackson and only 4 less than Sage), he simply has a much smaller yards/comp stat then Sage and Jackson. If I had to guess why that was, more than likely most of Favre’s completions came on check downs or having a scheme that keeps more options close to the LOS. Either way that would mean he needs to have a lot of attempts to put up the numbers people expect out of him which is going to take away from the running game.
I think that both the passing and rushing games will improve, but I think improving means the stats will show more balance than top ten passing and rushing numbers like a lot of people seem to expect. Sure a heavy handed passing game can be exciting (’08 Cards), but look at the offense that won it all including a game winning drive at the end (Steelers – 14th passing, 17th rushing).
Can't look at previous Farve numbers...
…when he will be playing on a different team. Farve won’t be asked to carry the entire team on his back. He will post career type lows in int’s because there won’t be as many defenders back on the pass. His completion percentage will be down because teams play the Vikings with everyone up, but his yards per completion will be high because the Vikings will likely hit a lot of big plays.
Honestly I don’t think that even with a strong passing game teams will jump out of 8 to 9 man fronts. Perhaps they’ll leave one safety back deep in coverage but not both. You play AP with seven up front and you have zero chance of winning, plain and simple. Farve will see 8 and 9 man fronts, making short passes difficult but medium to long ones will work well.
The real X factor in all of this is Harvin. People think the Vikings struggled against heavy blitzing and press just because the QB and/or coaching sucked. Really it was a group effort. The Vikings were not good at picking up blitzes and the WR’s were not good at getting open quickly. Wade was their only receiver with any wiggle in him and he is not that good. Harvin gives them something they flat out didn’t have last season. A guy with a quick enough first step to beat the press and get into a break very quickly.
Also look for another scat quick type WR to make the roster like Reynaud or Jaymar Johnson if either of those two improve enough. Rice will be clutch in the red zone and Berrian will stretch D’s out, but the place where a team really needs a WR to operate is short quick routes.
Harvin and the rest of the WR core, as well as blocking up front, will have just as much to do with the Vikings hopefully overcoming heavy blitzing fronts as a new QB will.
by Sand0 on Jun 30, 2009 7:28 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
There is a lot of sense in this
Although it may perhaps be counter intuitive to some, I think if Favre is going to be a complete success in Minnesota, it will show up in his numbers NOT being big (in total number of yards, and of course also low interceptions). If he is passing for 4k yards, to me that says to me the running game is not producing. This offense should NOT try to become “Greatest Show on Turf II” Ideally we want to be in positions where we’re hardly passing at all late in the game, that comes with good defense & protecting the ball & moving the chains on the ground on offense, taking a comfortable lead into Q4
Think Elway’s last years as the model, and him scaling back his role somewhat to game manager in order to ride Davis. Yes Favre should be able to (meaning he regularly WILL have to) make the big passing gains in order to keep the O balanced and the opposing D out of the box, but if it becomes almost an every down thing like it did for much of the year in GB in ’07, that is a sign of serious problems IMO, no matter how successful it is at winning regular season games.
4000 yards
simply won’t happen on this team. Let’s say Brett attempts 25 passes per game average, which is honestly a slight stretch when you look at the past 3 Vikings seasons. With those 25 passes a game let’s say Brett basically matches his career high yards per completion with about 8 ypc.
That would add up to 3200 yards this season. In all honesty I would expect Farve to put up big numbers early as teams test the Vikings with 8-9 man fronts and realize it doesn’t work anymore. Then when they scale back to 7-8 man fronts the Vikings will run a ton, seemingly too much, and Farve will put up modest numbers.
But I really do believe that Farve will not throw a very high number of int’s. He just won’t face complex coverages with 5-6 men deep like he has the previous 16 seasons. If teams apply those types of coverages worried about Farve, then Peterson and Taylor will absolutely chew them up, effortlessly.
A good season would be 1800 yards from AD, 500 yards from Chess, 3000 yards from Brett with a very high QB rating, and a 12-4 record. Last season the Vikings produced enough offense overall but struggled with consistency and red zone efficiency, both of which I think Brett would help solve. Defensively it should be just like last year, with the only X factors being the Williamson suspension, our 2nd year safety, and the apparently disgruntled Winfield. Offensively there are a ton of X factors: Brett’s ability and health, AD staying healthy (he’s not injury prone by body but is I think by style), Harvin’s ability to beat press and blitzes, Chilly opening up the playbook, the right side of the line improving, Rice’s health, Berrian’s health, etc. The list goes on and on.
But the bottom line is that this offense has the POTENTIAL to absolutely eat the clock, be extremely efficient in the red zone, close games with zero turnovers when necessary, and take some chances to score when necessary. The pieces all seem to be there to me. Farve will look much better playing on a team coming off 10-6 season than he did last year on a previously 4-12 team.
last year
6 QBs surpassed 4000 yards. Maybe Viking fans have gotten so used to an unbalanced offense with anemic QB play, but it’s not out of reach. If the offense has balance, both sides will see better #s. This is a great Viking team. With a good QB, it should be on fire. There are tons of weapons for Favre to spread the ball to and if defenses concentrate on the passing game, AD will crush them.
Time will tell. BRING ON THE SEASON!!!
How many of those 6 QBs
were on teams with backs that are also in the top 6 or 12 as far as production? I’m seriously asking, maybe there is one. But I am guessing probably not.
Denver had the 12th best rushing game in the NFL (1862 yards, 4.8 yards/rush) with no back getting the majority of carries and none with more than 343 yards. The Texans fell just outside your range at 13th (1846, 4.3 yrds/gm) and had Steve Slaton take the majority of carries (268 for 1282, 4.8 yrds/gm).
The others were NO at 28 (1594, 4 yrds/gm), Indy at 31 (1274, 3.4 yrds/gm) and Arizona at 32 (1178, 3.5).
I think I know where you want to go with your question, but as I stated in the post just above yours, all those teams that threw for 4000 yards averaged 38 pass att/gm vs the Vikings who had 28/gm. Those extra 10 attempts have to come at the expense of the run game and as you can see, most of those teams didn’t put up even decent running numbers. Average out all 5 teams rushing games and you get 1550 yards, 97 yrds/gm. Those stats would have been 29th last season. Just puttin git out there, but the Steelers were 17th in passing and 23rd in rushing. Maybe balance is more important that throwing for 4000 yards.
Thanks for fleshing out my point
I’m just trying to support my point in my post above, which began:
Although it may perhaps be counter intuitive to some, I think if Favre is going to be a complete success in Minnesota, it will show up in his numbers NOT being big (in total number of yards, and of course also low interceptions). If he is passing for 4k yards, to me that says to me the running game is not producing ….
That’s all I’m trying to say — even if Favre is capable of throwing for 4k yards, I still think we (and he, on behalf of his team) is better off if he doesn’t actually throw 4k yards. So … let’s not even wish for that, OK?
Anyone else think its weird that NFL.com list 6 QBs that threw for 4000, but only 5 teams. And of those 6 QBs, only 4 of their respective teams made the 5 teams that threw for 4000 (The Texans had Schaub and Sage combining for over 4000 yards while the Chargers and Packers as teams somehow managed to throw less then their starting QBs). I checked and none of the back-ups are throwing for negative yards. Just think its weird. Anyways….
One important thing to remember about those QBs that did throw for 4000 yards is that they threw way more passes over the course of the season the Vikings attempted. In fact Drew Brees had almost as many completions as the Vikings had attempts as a team (413-452). And if you average the number of attempts/gm for each of the six, they combined to throw 36 times/gm (if you average it from the teams page, the teams that threw from 4000+ averaged 39/gm). The Vikings averaged 28 pass attempt/gm. In order to get closer to the average that the QBs that did throw for 4000, carries would have to be taken away from the run game, and I am pretty sure that would lead to a reduction in stats for the running game. For comparison, if you averaged the running games for the QBs that threw for 4000 yards (Denver 12th, Texans 13th, GB 17th, SD 20th, NO 28th, Indy 31, Zona 32) they averaged 1612 yards rushing which would have been ranked 26th in the NFL last year.
T Jack???
Have any of you actually watched Tarvaris play? He consistently throws off target, the farther down the field, the farther off target. He has never had a 300 yd game. His number of 200 yd games is extremely low. The slightest bit of pressure and he is even worse. The only good thing about him is he is close to the end of his contract. I’m not happy about ol’ man, interception prone, Favre coming to the Vikes, but he is eons better than T-Jack.
Jackson: 2400 yds, 12tds, 18ints, 52%.
i'm not sure i understand the hate on tj
i have watched almost every game of tj’s career. i’ve look at his stats as well as having them thrown around on here all the time as well and i just can’t put my head around all the negativity and crappy predictions attributed to tj.
granted i support tj, but it’s not really hard to see why people might not expect him to ever be starting calibur however much i disagree. but even those who think the guy is the worst qb ever have to admit that he has progressed. watch his early games compared to last year. he’s a completely different qb.
how can anyone expect that given a full year to start that tj would put up such horrible numbers? i’m guessing here, but it looks like his predicted average is around 2700 yards, 17td, 15ints and 56% completion. that sucks! you really expect someone who put up 1056yds, 9tds and 2 ints in 6 games to have numbers like that for a whole season? before you start going off about realistically projecting that over a whole season, the calibur of defense he faced in those games, etc.. we all know the arguements but look at his play and look at his stats. nothing but improvement across the board. is he an mvp? no and no one is saying he is or ever will be. but to come out and say you think that (given his 6 game numbers from 08) he’s going to put up 1700yds, 8tds, and 13ints in 10 games? or worse? i understand the reasoning (somewhat) but i’m just not seeing that.
if the guy has done nothing but improve since day one, why does everyone think he would suddenly regress for an entire season? i fully expect tj to continue to improve this year whether he plays or not because the guy has shown nothing but improvement. his completion % in 06 was 58% in 4 games – not good but not completely terrible. in 07 it was 58.2% in 12 games – still not good, still not completely terrible, and a wee bit of improvement. in 08 it was 59.1 in 6 games – still not good but starting to approach acceptable. so all the tj bashers say his % will be 56% or less this year? really? if he were to start a complete season i would say it would be 60%. that falls in line with his improvement year to year. even with no improvement from last year it would still be 59%
then there’s his rating. 62.5 in 06 – that’s bad. 70.8 in 07 – still bad but improving. 95.4 in 08 – that’s a good rating. so again he’s suddenly going to regress? granted i don’t see him putting up a 95.4 for an entire season (although i believe he could!) but i wouldn’t have a problem with predicting a rating in the 80 to 85 range. that would be consistent with his growth.
you see my point right? you’ve seen him play right? yes he makes some completely boneheaded plays. every qb does. he makes more that most but i have patience with the guy. he’s a division 2 qb who has had what boils down to one and a half seasons of play and everyone is expecting him to be this awesome qb. the expectations have been unrealistic. no one expects a rookie qb to come out and have a great year. does it happen? yes. is it realistic to expect it every year? no. is tj a number one draft pick out a big time pro style college? no, he’s from alabama st. can’t we give that guy at least 2 or 3 years to bring his game up and become a pro? we give that amount of time to anyone else coming out of college. why not tj?
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 1, 2009 10:06 AM CDT reply actions
TJ's the Man
I’ve been watching him too, and only a Favre-level QB is worth supplanting TJ at this point. Not just for the reasons you’ve mentioned, but because despite how good Rosenfels is, Rosenfels isn’t likely to get much better than he is, and he’s about on TJ’s level….. but TJ is still improving, and the main thing he needs now to continue improvement is play time. I think he was ready to be the starter this year, and Rosey’s still a great acquisition because there’s no way that Booty is ready to step up as #2.
There’s only one reservation I have about T-Jack, and that’s his runner-mentality. I don’t think he’s really a scrambler, he’s looking for run-opportunities and goes into every play with every intention of doing it all by himself if need be. He needs to grow past that so that he hangs in there a few seconds longer, double-checking his reads and looking for an open target. Only then will he grow into a real scrambler, instead of a runner who happens to have a great arm.
+1
although i don’t think he needs to grow past his running mentality. i think he needs to polish it and use it correctly.
i didn’t really go into the added bonus of tj’s running ability but he’s the absolute best of the qb’s in question and his ability does add another dimension to his game.
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 1, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Not hate, reality
How many games did he play last year to get that 95.4? 4 and a playoff? The 1st 2 were horrendous, and in his playoff game he was typical. Two good games? Against the Cards, they were so worried about Peterson they let him get a few through. After 3 yrs he can officially be called a failure. How many more years would he need? Not to mention he is injury prone.
Running? He doesn’t unless they are directly behind him. Otherwise he lays down, or throws an interception. He has a running ability that he has no idea how to use.
2400 yds /16 games is 150 yds per game. That is realistic for him. Not to mention he would never make it through a year without either an injury, or being pulled for throwing 4 ints per game in a stretch.
by vikes since 68 on Jul 1, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Most QBs need 3 years sitting on the bench before they’re ready for the prime-time. It’s only the very very few, the rare phenoms, that walk into the NFL and are ready to play on Day One. Unfortunately, T-Jack isn’t one of those, he’s a normal development-type QB who needs about 3 yeas of growth and maturity, just like Tony Romo. Most will agree that Romo, despite his erratic performances, is probably going to be a great QB for Dallas. Romo never through a regular season pass in his first 3 years in the NFL, and that’s where the Vikes went sideways on us; Chilly threw T-Jack into the deep end immediately. I think it’s understandable that T-Jack did some thrashing about, early on.
But make no mistake about it… it was T-Jack who marshalled the Vikings to the playoffs, by winning the final 3 games. Would we have won all three with Gus at the helm? Maybe… but maybe not, too. I guarantee you that Booty couldn’t have done it. T-Jack did it.
i hear the 3 year thing all the time and you are absolutely correct. we should expect tj to be better than he is with 3 years of experience. except for one thing. he’s only played in 25 games! not started 25, played in 25. thats about 1 2/3 seasons not 3. he’s only started 19 games. that’s one season plus 3 games. he hasn’t had 3 years to develop. he was thrown to the wolves his rookie year as division 2 qb. all things considered i feel he’s done very well.
for all those who stand or have stood behind tj, no one has ever said the guy is an elite/mvp/hof qb. all that has ever been said is that he shows good potential and steady improvement. that’s all you can ask out of any player at any position.
some guys come in the league and just tear it up from day one (moss, ap, matt ryan, etc). these players are rare. very rare. for every one guy like this, there are a hundred who need 2 or 3 years to develop. and some never do at all. tj can be a good qb in the nfl. he has the tools. he just needs to hone his craft. and he’s proved year after year that he is honing his craft.
i don’t think anyone can tell me that tj wasn’t better in 2008 than he was in 2007. include the 2 starts at the beginning and the bad playoff game. he was still better in 2008. does everyone suddenly think he’s reached his peak? i don’t. he’s show too many flashes too often. and if you notice, those flashes are coming more often and lasting longer.
if tj were given the starting job this season for the entire season win or lose and he didn’t perform i would say he shouldn’t be a starter. he’s at that point now where he needs to show that he can get it done. last year wasn’t that year. this year is that year. he’s not going to get that chance now of course.
if the vikings let him go after this year, he will catch on somewhere and he will be at minimum an adequate qb for some other team. if he’s lucky enough to catch on in an offense that he’s suited to, he will be a very good qb for some time.
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 2, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
So, in 3 years he’s both sat on the bench, and played, yet completely sucks. He has a tendency to have a few good games, and then right back to playing lousy. Where has he improved? Not the long ball. Sure, he throws some short passes ok, but the offensive scheme had to be dumbed down for him. The rest of the league laughs at the Vike’s high school scheme when he is in. He presents no threat to any opposition. Defenses can keep 8 men in the box with him in, which also hurts the running game.
Someone who continues to make poor decisions in a simplistic offense should not be in the NFL. Under the belief that you need at least 3-4 yrs to develop, it looks like Spergon Wynn got the shaft. Oh, how many Super Bowls we could have won if he had only been given all the chances T Jack has….
by vikes since 68 on Jul 4, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
True
That he has only started 19 games but that is for a reason. I agree he was better in 08’ then 07’, but it’s hard to get much worse then what he was in 07’. I totally understand what you guys are saying about him needing 3-4 years to develop. He came from a small school, and was a “project” and still is. The only thing is, in 3 years he only has 1 and 1/2 years of in-game experience (which ultimately is most crucial to a QB’s develpoment). At that rate it is going to take him 3-4 more years to be developed. That is time that you guys might not have. You guys are ready to win right now, and with some of your keys players ages, who knows how long that window will stay open. Then take into account, that Favre is likely going to join the team. Unless he gets injured, which could happen, Jackson will likely never play in 09’. That will only set him farther behind, and will probably hurt his confidence more, which is something he has struggled with in the past. Assuming Favre is gone after that, he still has Sage to deal with, which is a battle he probably will lose. Sage is a guy that you guys really wanted. You tried in 07’ but they wanted to much. You then tried again and got him. That tells me that he was not brought in to be a backup. He was brought in because you guys feel he could be the starter.
Vikes since 68 is absolutely right when he talks about Jackson running a dumbed down version of the offense. I watched the Vikes first 2 games with Jackson, and then watched Ferotte, and it was like you guys were a completely different team. Jackson just doesn’t command the respect from D’s now, and for that reason I don’t think he could take you guys to the SB, and probably not even past the first round of the playoffs.
But aside from that he still can’t read coverages or blitzes. He only looks at one option, and if that option isn’t open, he checks it done to the rb or fb. He will be able to get it done when you guys play average teams but when you run into to the best teams in the playoffs, he just won’t be able to get it done.
by packallday555 on Jul 5, 2009 3:44 AM CDT up reply actions
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