Williams Wall Can Play During Appeal
Hennipin County District Judge Gary Larson has determined that Pat and Kevin Williams can play during the appeal that should eventually lead to their idiotic, bogus suspensions being overturned.
More on this later on today.
over 2 years ago
Christopher Gates
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One thing that has always bothered me...
The NFL has a strict stance on “The Players are responsible for what goes into their bodies…”
And for the most part, I agree. Of course, in this case (for both the Williamses and the four players on the Saints) I do not. The NFL would like for that line to be a blanket rule for everything, however, how on earth is it fair to blame the players for something that was not publicly known. As far as I know, most NFL players do not have a chemistry degree, do not have lab equipment in their basements, and generally have no knowledge of what a each individual chemical, compound, etc. goes together to create a dietary supplement… Outside of what is listed on the label and known to the general public. Unless they players have a team of chemists on standby, at all hours of the day, it is impossible for them to know exactly what is in each supplement outside of what is on the label… Especially in the case of an over-the-counter supplement like StarCaps. The NFL, on the otherhand, does have a devoted group who can test each supplement. They have the budget, the equipment, and the motive to do so. They don’t want to see people cheating, and that is a noble goal. However, when they find out that an over-the-counter supplement has a banned substance (one that can even prove to be deadly if used incorrectly), but it is not listed on the label, and not known by the general public, and only known by a few sources, they should tell their players. I can’t fathom how the NFL would expect players to know exactly what is in StarCaps if the ingredients aren’t listed, especially if the NFL won’t tell anyone what they are (either through a press release or through their hotline that doesn’t seem to actually work). This is something that bothers me greatly about this entire situation. For the league to say, “Well, the players didn’t put it into the CBA that we need to tell them if we find hidden substances in common supplements. It’s their fault,” it just seems negligent and malicious. I detest the entire situation.
by Eric The Viking on Jul 9, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions
I hope this doesn't....
…come back to bite us in the a$$. Who knows how long this might play out and I’d much rather lose them for the first four games than the playoffs. Hopefully they don’t get suspended at all, but we’re never that lucky.
Let them play!!!! Let them play!!!! Let them Play!!!!
Sorry had a Bad News Bears flashback there for a second!
The NFL screwed the pooch on this and I hope the Wall makes them eat crow after all is said and done!
VikeGuru is a doofus!!
Yes!!!
Let’s hope this gets decided soon though. I feel like we have been getting the same story for 9 months now. Either way, I am glad they are playing as we need these guys in a bad way!
I almost wish...
That they had just served their suspensions last year. At least we would all know they were playing the full 16 games this year, barring injury or whatever. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, so yeah.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Yeah, it would be nice to have this all behind us...and them.
But you’ve got to remember that they are not only fighting for their good names and their rights, but also a LOT of salary.
"Skol pa fiskande"
There's not a chance in hell...
that these guys get their entire suspensions dropped. This is going to bite the Vikes in the backside right around week 10 or 11. That’s my official prognostication.
They should just serve them up front so their replacements will have all of camp to prepare.
by thisguyzig on Jul 9, 2009 12:48 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Hopefully
they get suspended for all the conference games in November!
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
douche
Green Bay or the Windy City..... There but for the Grace of God go I.
by IABerserker1 on Jul 10, 2009 12:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I just want a decision, this has been dragging on for too long.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Jul 9, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions
Honor and Injustice
The Williams wall has been accused of taking a prohibited substance. This substance isn’t a steroid, but a diuretic. The reason why it was banned in the first place is its potential as a “steroid masking” agent.
True, the NFL in its infinite wisdom have acted like a bunch of finger-pointing, witch-hunting, unreasonable and irresponsible children. By following the “letter” of the collective bargaining agreement they suspended the Williams Wall. But they have NOT acted in good faith.
The had, and withheld, knowledge of incredible importance from players regarding starcaps. Such actions could have proven fatal to any players who took star caps. Surely had the owners, trainers, or players truely known the signifcance of this revelation- the players would NOT have injested another pill. The Vikings have already had one training camp death too many this decade.
Problem is, they did not know. The NFL kept that information close to its chest, and then decided to make an example of players who, in truth, did not and could not have know the significance of this over-the counter drug.
So, put yourselves in the shoes of Kevin and Pat. Accused of taking a pill that contained a drug that’s used to mask steroid use, with your accusers insiuating such actions. To have taken a pill that, according to all indicators was a perfectly healthy and natural weightloss supplement, and then to have your good name sullied by the worthless pricks at the NFL, who failed at every instance to show good faith.
To be suspended for 25% of your work year- without pay. To have anything but a fair appeal hearing (your judge is also your accusor). To have your reputation damaged forever.
Honor and duty force these men to stand against and defeat the charges against them. And I find it very refreshing that the Vikings’ ownership has stood behind them 100%. One doesn’t plead guilty when you know that you know that you know that you’re innocent. I hope justice prevails.
by DelawareBerserker on Jul 9, 2009 3:25 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Nice reply
I also find it refreshing that the state of Minnesota stands up for the rights of its workers.
"Skol pa fiskande"
Here come the trolls...
I can hear them crying already…
Not here...
I hope we are both at full strength when we play… that way there are no questions. I posted this over at WCG about Favre, but it could be appropriate here (sort of).
But, for the fun of it, let’s look at who Favre will face should he play for the Vikes:
In their first 5 games, they will play teams who had the 26th/ 32nd/ 13th/ 20th/ 28th ranked defenses in 2008.
They will run up against the Ravens and Steelers in weeks 6 and 7, then the Packers’ new scheme in week 8. In week 9, they have a bye to heal from the beatings from Balt and Pitt.
The next 4 weeks: 32nd/ 30th/ 21st/ 19th ranked defenses from 2008.
Their final 2 games are against the Bears and Giants.
All that being said, should Favre play as a Vike, he could come out of the gate hot and (should be) healthy. AP will be having field days in their first 5 games as well, before running into the Ravens and Steelers.
The last 6 games on their schedule (Bears/ Cards/ Bengals/ Panthers/ Bears/ Giants) will certainly be crunch time, and hopefully they will be in a position to need to win 4 of them to win the North. The question is though, would Favre be able to pull it off in those last 6 games of the year?
I hope the Williamses get to play a full 16 games.. may the best team win!
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
Well, from reading you're other posts
I’m not surprised at all you would have an intelligent comment. I’m sure there are plenty of trolls that roam the bears’ sites in regards to the Vikings and Packers, and for that the “sane” fans apologize.
Very good post, and I also hope all teams are their strongest.
I'm 100% with Geaux as well.
Let them play, then there can be no excuses either way.
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
I have learned many years ago
NEVER to listen to the “strength of schedule” rankings. Nice reply though Geaux. I appreciate your football savy.
"Skol pa fiskande"
Thanks fella.
Although I didn’t use the SOS in my reasoning, I think I know where you are coming from… a lot can change from one year to the next (i.e. Bears).
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
AP will be having field days in their first 5 games as well, before running into the Ravens and Steelers.
AP will be having a field day regardless.
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 10, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Then you are either grossly underestimating those 2 defenses
or overestimating AP. He very well may be the best RB in football, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any defenses that can’t stop him. The Vikes are likely to find themselves throwing the ball 35-40 times per game versus Pitt and Baltimore.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
chili would never allow 40 passes in a game! unless they’re one yard dump offs. those don’t count.
this is AP’s third year. last year was his sophomore slump year. i expect him to really break out this year.
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 10, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, or Great Purple Vagina...
Rushing title =/= Sophomore slump
But I get ya =P
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
You have an odd obsession with the Great Purple Vagina.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Jul 10, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
everyone is obsessed with the purple vagina
by iseepurplepeople on Jul 13, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
i must say
that not being able to comment with my phone has been a big problem when wanting to comment about geauxbears. even though you are a bears fan, you by far have the most insightful and balanced comments of any fan on the site (including most of the vikings fans here). very very fair and it is very much appreciared by at least this vikings fan.
Green Bay or the Windy City..... There but for the Grace of God go I.
by IABerserker1 on Jul 10, 2009 9:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yet To Be Determined in Court
The NFL talks as if federal law always trumps state law, but that is clearly untrue, as anyone who has read the single sentence of the U.S. Bill of Rights which is called the Tenth Amendment can see for themselves. States have the right to make laws in areas that are not reserved for the federal government by the Constitution.
Although rhe National Labor Relations Act has been ruled to govern certain aspects of union organizing activities over those of state requirements, it’s not as if any labor-management agreement which might be negotiated between two parties ever can grant you the right to legally drink at a different age than your state may allow.
There may be a balance point somewhere, but that somewhere is not crystal clear. Imagine if an employer were allowed to negotiate an agreement with you that said you must give up your right to vote if you wanted to keep your job or said that slavery is really okay with regards to you, no matter what the heck the Fourteenth Amendment says. The NFL is an employer; it is not a sovereign government.
The Williams’ case involves state laws affecting drug testing requirements and how much an employer can control things which people do on their own time. Since there are laws that lean toward both sides of this disagreement, the matter will be decided in the courts, even if it ultimately requires a U.S. Supreme Court appeal and decision, which is actually conceivable. Don’t expect this all to transpire during your next coffee break or even by Christmas.
This is a gray area. As my old pal Yogi would say, it ain’t over till it’s over, and the potential NFL suspensions are no sure things at this point.
From what I’ve read I doubt the Wall can do more than delay their suspension. Pat can maybe delay it until retirement but Kevin will have to serve his time. Why not just get it over with while our schedule appears weak?
You might be confused. You may not be reading the U.S. Constitution, just crap written by NFL lawyers.
If you could sign an agreement between to parties to do something and magically become immune to state laws, Dr. Kervorkian would never have gone to jail.
If you just let someone punish you under a policy that was supposed to prevent steroids use, and you have never used steroids, then you are supporting the notion that people should just take your money and your good name away from you without any valid reason. If you believe that, please send me four weeks worth of your pay in U.S. dollars, and your good name will vanish along with it automatically.
to be sure
I am a vikings fan and always will be and I believe the suspensions, on their face, are groundless. that being said, the main problem the wall is going to have is that, whether they took steroids or not, the substance in question is a masking agent for steroids, so even if they had taken steroids, you couldn’t tell. the nfl will use that as their argument. that their ‘story’ is that they took starcaps, as opposed to actually using a diuretic, thus casting doubt as to whether their story carries weight. either way, it’s going to be a tough fight, and I hope pat and kevin prevail.
Green Bay or the Windy City..... There but for the Grace of God go I.
by IABerserker1 on Jul 11, 2009 1:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
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