Vikings Head Down the Stretch in Mankato
by Anthony21 on Aug 11, 2009 2:19 PM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings
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PrintWent to Mankato today for the morning practice, and it's clear things are winding down in training camp. The practice (which started at 9:00a) was scheduled to go until 11:15a -- but it ended 30 minutes early.
The final 45-60 minutes were the most interesting, as T-Jack, Rosenfels and Booty took turns running some passing plays and operating under the two minute drill. It's easy to see why T-Jack's performance in Mankato has been largely praised while Rosenfels' performance has been characterized as underwhelming -- Rosenfels wasn't coming close to getting the velocity on his throws that T-Jack was, and of the three quarterbacks, T-Jack was the one most in rhythm with the receivers. Rosenfels made a few ill-advised throws into tight coverage and clearly lacked the level of chemistry with the receiving corps that T-Jack put on display.
After reading reports from Mankato throughout the last two weeks, my impression is that this morning's practice represents the bigger picture of training camp. On paper, Rosenfels is my pick to be the starting quarterback. But if I base the pick on what I saw today, T-Jack is the clear favorite -- and according to the updates we've received from training camp, he seems to have generally outperformed Rosenfels when he's been healthy. At least for this morning, the much-maligned Tarvaris Jackson was easily the best quarterback on the field.
Today was the first time I've seen Phil Loadholt in person, and I was absolutely stunned at how big the guy is. There was a moment this morning when he and Bryant McKinnie were walking next to each other, and from where I was standing, Loadholt looked bigger than Big Mac himself. The man is enormous.
Percy Harvin didn't get a ton of action but he did take a reverse and had a reception toward the end of practice. I was standing on field level near the point he made the catch, and even though things are winding down and the players weren't quite going at the pace they would on gameday, it was truly something to see Harvin's speed up close.
That's about all I've got -- not too much to report on, but again, my big takeaway was T-Jack's overall sharpness and Rosenfels' underwhelming performance.
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I’m glad to hear one of the QBs is demonstrating some timing and chemistry. Neither of their pedigree’s really impresses me, but I’ve seen enough glimpses of good things from Tavarvis that I just hope on of them claims the job by outperforming the other and winning the support of the team.
As it should be
Thanx for the report, I would like to see T-Jak get the starting nod and I really hope that Harvins past issues are behind him/us because it looks like we may have the real star of the draft if thats the case. Your discription of Loadholt makes him sound awsome.
I would like to hear how Jasper Brinkley is fitting in/coming along from anyone who may have seen hin at practices. Thanx in advance!!!!!
Thanks for the report!
It’s good to hear this news. I went to camp on the 1st and 7th, and on the 1st Jackson wasn’t even there (he he stained his MCL earlier that day). Rosenfels passed to Kleinsasser more than anyone else that day. Too much checking down. On the 7th Rosey looked a little better, but like you said, Jackson can throw a lot faster. He hit more deep balls too, but ol’ Sage got a couple.
I hope Jackson stays healthy. Should be an interesting preseason to watch. Wade vs. Johnson vs. Reynaud vs. the rest… Loadholt taking on DEs wearing non-purple jerseys… and, of course, the QB competition.
tjacks performance
from what i`ve read, has been lackluster as of late also. i guess we`ll all get our personal oppinion on friday.
creature the williams wall
QB Criteria
Let’s face it, the three main reasons the Vikings were even thinking of bringing in Favre are 1) arm strength 2) experience and 3) past Super Bowl victory. Now, of these first two criteria, Jackson beats out Sage and Booty, so he’s gotta be the guy. Then you add in a fourth criterion that neither Favre, Sage nor Booty ever did or ever will have—mobility—and I think Jackson is a lock.
Thus I salute the fortress,
Safe from terror and dread.
Wife, follow me
and dwell with me in Valhalla!
by Franciscan Viking on Aug 11, 2009 5:13 PM CDT reply actions
The man has a point. That is, of course, unless “he” is a “she”. In that case, the lady has a point.
I’m a man.
Thus I salute the fortress,
Safe from terror and dread.
Wife, follow me
and dwell with me in Valhalla!
by Franciscan Viking on Aug 12, 2009 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you 40?
Kindof an obscure reference, but still.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Arm strength?
Have you seen Favre play past October the past two years? That’ some funny stuff there. Jackson’s got a cannon for an arm. He’ll be fine.
by VikingBillArlingtonVA on Aug 11, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
yes,....
he has the arm strength, but what good does that do when we only call for 4 yard passes anyway? if the coaches still feel they have to pare down the playbook for tj after being in the system for over 3 yrs now, his arm strength is not the problem.
by indianavikesfan on Aug 11, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, arm strength
Did you not hear the reports from Hattiesburg of roll-out 50-yard bullets with complete accuracy as recently as a few weeks ago? TJack may have similar arm strength, but with such dead-on accuracy? I don’t think so. Perhaps I should have said the Vikings wanted Favre for accuracy as much as anything else….
Thus I salute the fortress,
Safe from terror and dread.
Wife, follow me
and dwell with me in Valhalla!
by Franciscan Viking on Aug 12, 2009 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions
i agree
i also think that the coaching staff must be getting wary of tj ever being able to handle the full load. being (maybe, hopefully) childress’ last year, he wanted farve for all the attributes you mentioned above, plus he knows it is his best bet of a successful season to try to save his job. not sure if tj can help him there. thanks for your postings. i enjoy reading the posts on here. living in indiana, we don’t hear much about viking ongoings. love the daily norseman!
by indianavikesfan on Aug 12, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I keep on hearing about this “Dumbed Down” offense that Chilly is blaming on Tjack.
But I have to ask, did we see ANYTHING from Frerrotte that suggested that Chilly opened the playbook for him? I still saw the same bland, predictable offense as when Tjack was on the field.
Do we know if this pared down playbook is confirmed, or just a rumor trying to explain Chilly’s ineptitude at playcalling?
Very Nice!
I always appreciate “on the ground” reporting, and first-hand testimony above simple bloviating and conjecture.
I am very glad that TJack is showing bth poise and promise. Throwing the ball downfield more often will be the biggest boost to the Vikings pass offense. Last Year we saw way too many check-downs and under 5-yard pass plays. Stretching the field with Harvin and Berrian is a key to our beloved Purple’s success this year.
by DelawareBerserker on Aug 11, 2009 5:26 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I saw the same thing.
when I was at camp TJ looked miles and miles ahead of JDB and the copter. One person that stood out for me was Sidney Rice. He has made loads of improvement. Ian Johnson also surprised me and at first glance he looks a lot better than CT.
when i was reading the pioneer press
they had a picture of ian johnson trying to block taylor…needless to say johnson isnt as good as taylor, not yet anyways
sugar + water + purple
what about the play book
I understand half the problem last year is that they did not feel that TJ could handle the whole play book. This made it easier for teams to anticipate and shut us down. Anyone have a feel for this? This is tough for me, I have said for years get a good youg qb and stay with him, so is this the year that TJ brakes out?
Otherwise even if Sage is not as good he could get my nod, just because having a complete play book is a great advanage to the offence.
by montana vikes fan on Aug 11, 2009 7:10 PM CDT reply actions
I still think Chilly will restrict the playbook.
Look at last year, for example. We didn’t see Frerrotte break out any more creative playcalling than was done while TJack was under center.
Disagree
The playcalling got a lot bettter. In the grand scheme it wasnt as complex as it could/should be but it wa still way more dynamic than the tecmo bowl offense of the Indianapolis game.
Bring back Tarkenton!
Thus I salute the fortress,
Safe from terror and dread.
Wife, follow me
and dwell with me in Valhalla!
by Franciscan Viking on Aug 12, 2009 1:51 AM CDT reply actions
Well Anthony..
U failed to say the nice long catch Harvin had was from Sage, which I read from Access Vikings..Seems ur lil biased towards Jackson…I’ve sd this before…and again will say it again…..Jaworski did a breakdown on Jackson last year..broke down some film…showed passes he was dumping off, and showed openings where ball should have been thrown..or pics he was throwing and where guys were wide open….also sd, with 3 yrs of playing in NFL, Jackson should be making these reads..Jackson has all the physical tools, but does not have it menatlly.. We can no longer try to see if the light is going to come on in his head
you could cherry pick a handful of plays by any QB (except brady and manning maybe) and make him look like a complete idiot. and also take into account that this was done by ESPN during the Favre rumors…and we all know ESPN would do anything to heat up the debate. to me this means nothing. and have you heard of ‘growth’ or ‘development’? every single pass Eli Manning threw in his first year was absolutely atrocious. His 2nd year was nothing better than average, and imo continues to be about average. Yet he won a Super Bowl. And, again imo, I think this year’s Vikings’ supporting cast is better than the Giant’s Super Bowl-winning upporting cast .
You are the one who may be indeed a ‘lil biased.’ You seem to have it out for Jackson no matter what he does from here.
I have to agree with yanks.
QB’s take time to develop, 3 years is generally the most common timeframe for this type of adjustment. You cannot say he does not have the mental ability when you haven’t given him a legitimate chance to adjust.
That is NOT saying that we should be rolling into this season without a more proven option at QB. Tjack should have been riding pine behind ONE quarterback for these last three years. Not this revolving door of noodle-armed geezers.
Chilly is an idiot for putting all of his eggs in Tjacks basket, tethering his career to Tjack’s advancement. We had plenty of chances to find a solid starter to help Tjack develop, Garcia was available at least three times since we drafted Tjack. Imagine if we had him these last three years and THEN let Jackson start after learning what he needed to learn.
Rather than just throwing him to the wolves his rookie year. Who is honestly stupid enough to start a Div I-AA his rookie year? Sure, injuries knocked out our starter, but Jackson should have been # 3 on the depth chart at that time.
Just Wait a Minute...
Joe Flacco of the Baltimore Ravens, and 2008-alumnus of the Div-IAA University of Delaware (as am I) proved your blanket statement as false.
I feel Jackson has ALL the tools: Physical and Mental, to be a very successful QB for the Vikings. THE problem is his durability. Jackson’s injuries, aside from the immediate consequences, affect the crucial relationship between QB and receiver. Timing, Rhythm, being “on the same page”, etc. eliminates a significant number of errors and the number of “check downs”.
I have noticed (maybe you did too) that TJack’s first offensive drive of the game is typically his best. Why? It’s correographed and orchestrated. It’s practiced over and over again the week leading up to it. And the timing and repoire of each play is likewise improved greatly.
If Jackson can stay healtthy all year (yet to be seen) then I am not worried about our chances.
by DelawareBerserker on Aug 12, 2009 12:42 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Is that a recent change? Because I seem to recall the Blue Hens to be in the FCS.
Since that would be a recent change, they were likely the best team in Div I-AA for a few years. That is likely due to a much more complicated offensive scheme, but I am just assuming.
Flacco also was a pure QB in his scheme. Tjack was more of a scrambler than a passer, his team relied on Tjacks legs more than his arm. It would make sense that Tjack needs more time to develop things like reading a defense and adjusting to a blitz.
Though, I am sure most of the people here would agree that Flacco’s performance last year was not something that happens often.
nice
revolving door of noodle-armed geezers.
i like that. colorful and yet apt at the same time.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 12, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
All in on the man you went with Chilly...Tavaris
T.Jack should be the starter. Many QBs arent that great after two full seasons starting. He hasent even had that yet. Was Sage not a quality pick up? Its discouraging to hear his lack of performance after being healthy all of training camp and getting the most reps out of any QB on the roster.
Bernard, Percy and AP oh my!
The words Great and Terrible are used way too much
as in a player is great some plays, and terrible others. Jackson has played a couple of great games, under a system that doesn’t allow him to do too much. I’d figure he averages around 20 attempts a game in all his starts, some more some alot less. If your saying that Jackson is a waste because he hasn’t proven himself yet then I think your crazy. As Vikes Pma stated, Jackson hasn’t even started 2 full seasons worth of games yet. Jacksons season last year was cut to only 6 games, and 4 of them I thought he played like a solid starting quarterback. Good Luck Jackson, and Sage. Heck, you too, Booty.
SKOL
+1
good post and great attitude as well. even threw booty a bone! (no visuals please)
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 12, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess this is my point
Do we go with the developing guy or the developed guy.
I am getting real conflicting reports on the progress of both QB’s heck all three. I see they were picked off and such and then the next one says they all threw at least on 50 yder.
Sage has been in the league a long time can probably run an offense, change plays at the line etc, but may lack the talent TJ has. I recall last years first game they had TJ throw like 10 passes in a row. Did it prove anything….not much.
For now I am leaning toward Sage just because running the offense is more improtant then talent. You do not need to make every pass of every play, but you need to change the plays that give the team the best opertunity to succeed. If TJ shows he can run the offense then he should get the job because he has the talent but until then, I guess we will have to just see.
by montana vikes fan on Aug 12, 2009 10:28 PM CDT reply actions
I disagree with this article
Since training camp has begun, things have been pretty slow at work and so I’ve been constantly gobbling up any info about the QB competition. You could almost say that I’ve become a full-time Vikings training camp follower. To say in this article that T-Jack’s performance has been largely praised while Rosenfels has been underwhelming is not true – where are you reading this stuff?? The coverage about them has mostly been even-handed, except for Sean Jensen at the Pioneer Press, who must have a side business selling T-Jack memorabilia. I will admit that I was not able to make it to training camp myself, but I don’t see how that would give what I’m saying any less credence. Those of us posting on this board do not have trained eyes or educated opinions when it comes to watching training camp practices (did you notice that no one pays the fans to get their opinion of who looks better in training camp).
T-Jack and Rosenfels have been at very similar levels throughout training camp – based on everything I’ve read from those with EDUCATED football opinions. If you read an article from earlier this year Greg Cosell (the head of NFL Films for 30+ years) anaylzed T-Jack’s performance during the Eagles playoff game and said it was obvious (to his HIGHLY-TRAINED eyes) that T-Jack was operating with a very basic offense, which is how the Eagles were able to anticipate everything in the second half of the game. Some can blame it on Childress… but I tend to think (and Cosell implies in his article) that it is due to T-Jack’s lack of awareness in the pocket… his inability to read complex defenses. T-Jack is not exactly regarded as a student of the game. Let’s not forget that Houshmendzadeh was a lock to come to the Vikings until he had a private meeting with T-Jack, which some think caused him to keep shopping for a team.
Bottom line – if a fan goes to training camp and sees the players in shorts and shells running around and thinks that T-Jack looked better, good for you… but determining how a player will do in full pads with complex blitzes and 300 pound d-linemen coming full speed and looking for blood – well, I’ll leave that one up to those who make a living analyzing these sorts of things. Everything I’ve read from such individuals tell me that the contest between T-Jack and Rosenfels is dead even. John Czarnecki of Fox Sports is the one person who made a passing comment about Rosenfels not absorbing Childress’ system (and yet doesn’t even say “according to my sources,” so it may just be him pontificating). I wouldn’t put too much stock in Czarnecki’s comment, since it appears to be a mere speculation.
May the best quarterback win… and everything I read tells me that the better QB is going to be Rosenfels.
Oh, and Greg Cosell is the man. When he talks football fans ought to listen.
First off, Tjack was drafted as a 3-4 year project QB at MINIMUM. So it goes without saying that he is not going to be up to par.
Second, Houshmendzadeh never had a meeting with Tjack. He had a 60-second phone call with Jackson and that was his ONLY contact. Don’t blame Tjack for Housh’s desire for more money.
Third, Chilly is a stubborn SOB. If you think he is going to go back on his assessment that Tjack is the next McNabb, you are sorely mistaken. Sure, Sage and Tjack may be neck and neck as far as outsiders are concerned. But in Chilly’s world, a Tie goes to Tjack.
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