Rosenfels Failing to Absorb Offense?
Saw some folks wondering about my general feeling that Tarvaris Jackson might be winning the quarterback competition to this point. John Czarnecki stole the words right out of my mouth with this tidbit on the odds of the Vikings revisiting Favre. It's a scenario that doesn't have a chance of occurring, but Czarnecki's comment on Rosenfels is telling:
The whole pursuit has damaged Childress in the locker room, but the coach also knows that Sage Rosenfels hasn't absorbed his offense while Tarvaris Jackson remains injury-prone.
Friday's game will be the judge, and both quarterbacks have struggled at times this training camp (when both have been on the field). But as someone who initially supported Rosenfels, I'm disappointed that he hasn't pulled ahead as the clear favorite in the quarterback competition.
11 months ago
Anthony21
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What is there to absorb?
There’s a deep play, a mid-range play, and the rest are FB dumpoffs, and running plays
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose: it's how drunk you get. ~Homer Simpson
by thewild_viking_twins on Aug 11, 2009 9:30 PM CDT reply actions
Haha
I was thinking the exact same thing.
by packallday555 on Aug 12, 2009 2:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Vikings quarterbacks
Childress is going to waste the talented Adrian Peterson, a very good defense, and a lot of very good players, only becuase he doesn’t feel he needs a quarterback. He’s been promoting TJ since he drafted him, and although he came in last year and played well against the Lions, who didn’t win a game. Played good against Arizona whose defense didn’t show up until the playoffs. After that he lost to Atlanta. At home. Than couldn’t do shit against the Giants until they put in their 3rd string and than struggled to win by a 50 yd field goal. The Eagles pretty much put him to shame. I just don’t understand why the Vikings haven’t gone after a long term franchise quarterback.
And it's not just Jackson's job on the line
It’s Chilly’s as well. It’s not like he’s been a terrible coach (6-10 to 8-8 to 10-6), but his stubbornness to give up on Jackson as the future QB of the franchise may cost him his job at the end of the year. T-Jack has all the physical tools to be a good starting quarterback in the NFL, but he doesn’t seem overly bright and has absolutely no confidence whatsoever. It’s like the corny old motivational saying, “Whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right,” and it seems to me Jackson has never thought of himself as the little QB that could.
2007 was supposed to be the year Jackson made great strides, and then 2008 was definitely going to be his breakout year. Well now it’s 2009, and except for a few flashes of brilliance, it hasn’t happened, and now a very talented team is being wasted with a QB whose play can’t be described as any better than mediocre.
My only hope is that Harvin lives up to the hype and overcompensates for the lack of solid QB performances.
Even if
Harvin does live up to the hype, it still won’t be enough to overcome Jacksons’ poor play. You need a QB to go deep into the playoffs, and without it you can only get so far, which was shown last year.
by packallday555 on Aug 12, 2009 2:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Not if Harvin runs the Wildcat 95% of the time.
What then? Huh?! WHAT THEN?! WHERE’S YOUR LOGIC NOW?!
Coughs
I’ll be excusing myself now.
Runs away
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Jackson's performance better than you think
Even though the Lions were winless, they came close to beating Minnesota the first time around and Frerotte had the Vikings behind in the second half before Jackson took over.
Also, his game against Arizona was very nice and he did well against Atlanta too. That was a weird loss, and can’t be pinned on Jackson.
I have no excuse for the poor showing versus the Giants. That game looked bad.
But when the Eagles made him look silly in wildcard weekend, just remember: they embarassed Romo with a 44-6 drubbing of the Cowboys a week earlier and went on to stomp Eli the week after, so it’s not like Philly’s blitzing defense is anything to sneeze at.
I’d rather have Jackson’s playoff performance than Delhomme’s.
by peterplaysbass on Aug 12, 2009 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree...
Jackson, like any QB, is going to have some trouble with a lot of pressure, and that’s exactly what NY and Philly are all about… The Giants won a Super Bowl pressuring the QB… I still wish we made a play for Chad Pennington last year, but even he siezed up in the playoffs… I don’t think that there were many better options around this year aside from one year band-aids like Jeff Garcia. There is really a lack of quality QB’s in the league right now, and I think that a lot of teams are in similar situations, but without a sturdy backup to fill in in case of injury… The old adage says that when you have 2 starting QB’s you have no starting QB’s and I think that’s relatively accurate right now, but there is still a month before the season starts, and I’m excited for the game on Friday… Call me crazy, but I kind of like seeing the bottom of the barrel guys get a shot to be NFL players… It’s also fun to see what kind of depth we have at the skill positions, as we’ll never get to see much of the 3rd RB or what Reynaud and JJ can do split wide…
Go back, and study
Learn about the difference between THEN and THAN, then come back to me.
‘And the wild things roared their terrible roars and gnashed their terrible teeth and rolled their terrible eyes and showed their terrible claws’.
Than watcha gonna do, huh?
Gonna start telling people their using too wrong to?
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 12, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
lol!
or their using there wrong too? but that’s neither here nor they’re.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 12, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I just don't understand why the Vikings haven't gone after a long term franchise quarterback
You make it sound so easy – like these types of players are just laying around waiting to be picked up. Since we drafted Daunte, we haven’t had many opportunities to draft or sign a “franchise quarterback”.
We probably could have gone after Drew Brees a few years ago in FA, but he was dealing with an injury that many people believed was serious. Remember, the Dolphins decided that Daunte was less of an injury risk than Brees. We may have been able to trade up and draft Cutler, but trading away assets for a rookie is always risky. We may have had a chance at Cutler again this offseason, but the price would have been incredibly steep.
But really – how many times over the past few years have we truly been in the position to pick up a franchise quarterback. Hindsight’s 20-20. It’s easy to identify missed opportunities now.
How do you figure he doesn’t think we need a quarterback?? Was I on another planet or did we not just get done with Favregeddon?? It’s obvious Chiily knows we need a QB. Thats why he went after Favre, it just didn’t work out.
by shift47_brada on Aug 12, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
sorry..
meant this to be commented on another one…
by shift47_brada on Aug 12, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Chilly quite CLEARLY does feel he needs a QB
Pursuit of Favre tips his hand on this, beyond any reasonable doubt. The season will not “go to waste” because he doesn’t recognize this … but because he wasn’t able to do anythign about it, even though he does.
Hmmmm
T.J. had 3 years, Sage only 3 weeks so far. Dont think it’s fair to say he wont make it yet, but does cause some concern. If both wind up being a bust, this could get ugly really quick with a possible trade/F.A. during the off season and a head coaching search on top of that.
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk"
3 years versus 8
Remember that Sage has been in the league for 8 seasons already and the last 3 in an almost identical offense. Plus, as we all know, the Childress KAO isn’t that difficult and is the rudimentary West Coast dink and dunk. Only 3 weeks (which in reality is since last spring) is a poor excuse because he should have the experience and background knowledge to easily assimilate any of the KAO’s intricacies.
It may take a village to raise a child, but it takes a Viking to raze a village.
by Luft Krigare on Aug 12, 2009 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, if it was supposedly so simple, guess Johnson and Frerotte had no problems picking it up either being well seasoned veterans in longer then 8 years. But then again, every offense is differant then other teams, no matter what it’s called. I know, poor excuse as well right?
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk"
by VikesFaninNM on Aug 12, 2009 7:04 AM CDT up reply actions
+1
Exactly. This offense is hardly complicated, so the excuse that Rosenfels is new to the system just doesn’t work for me. T-Jack’s head start in the offense doesn’t mean much when things don’t get much more complex than dump-offs to Tahi.
And again, why did Johnson do a good job the year before, then all of a sudden, with Chilly in his first year, Johnson implode, Jackson not seeming to grasp it, Frerotte having a difficult time and perhaps Sage is too. Now, Johnson yes, was getting older but I dont think enough to have that complete colapse in one year. By the way, Johnson and Ferotte have more years then Sage including a SuperBowl, so that makes them inept as well?
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk"
by VikesFaninNM on Aug 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I've sd it b4 and will again....
Jaworski did a breakdown on Jackson last year..broke down some film…showed passes he was dumping off, and showed openings where ball should have been thrown..or pics he was throwing and where guys were wide open….also sd, with 3 yrs of playing in NFL, Jackson should be making these reads..Jackson has all the physical tools, but does not have it menatlly.. We can no longer try to see if the light is going to come on in his head..
Agreed
I don’t think some people seem to get it. He is fine physically, though he isn’t very accurate at all. It’s the mental aspect where he struggles the most. It’s SO obvious when watching him that mentally he just doesn’t have what it takes. He stares his number 1 option down from the second the ball is snapped. He never goes through his progressions, and is almost incapable of looking a defense off. He looks like a deer in the headlights when teams blitz him too. I don’t care what people say 19 starts is plenty enough time to be able to read coverages. He consistently makes the wrong reads, and that should not be the case.
BTW- I say all this as a football fan, not as a Packers fan.
by packallday555 on Aug 12, 2009 2:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Last time I checked, reading defenses and looking off receivers is something that comes from experience.
If you think 19 games in 3 years is enough time, then you must have a short memory of Quarteback play. 3 years is enough for some QB’s, not enough for others. Especially coming from a simple offensive program like Alabama State.
Tjack is not where he needs to be, but that is to be expected. He is not a veteran quarterback from a pass-heavy offense. He is a young quarterback on a run-heavy team that has not had the time to develop things like being able to read a defense and look off defenders.
That is not to say he will, only that he needs more time. That is not to say we need to start him this year, but it IS saying that it is too early to give up on the guy.
somethings i just noticed
first, tjack is 11-6 in games in which he throws less than 30 passes. 3 of those came in 06 when he started 3 and played in one other as a rookie in garbage time at the end of a lost season throwing to guys like troy williamson. take away his rookie season and he is 11-3 as a starter in games in which he’s thrown less than 30 passes. for his entire career he’s attempted 524 passes.
here’s some comparison numbers. in this players first year in the league he started all 16 games. he attempted 575 passes, more than tj has in 3 seasons. he only attempted less than 30 passes in 4 games (2-2). overall record was 3-13.
in this same players second year, he threw 533 passes, also more than tj has thrown in 3 seasons. he only attempted less than 30 passes in 5 games (3-2). overall record was 13-3.
in the playoffs, this guy tanked. 45% completions and a 62 qb rating. just like tjack.
is this the whole picture? no. maybe this other guy didn’t have a good defense his first year. we all know he had no ap in the backfield (there’s only 1 of those). what about his receivers? i’d be hard pressed to believe anyone in the history of the nfl has had worse receivers in a 2 year span than tjack did in 06 and 07. some of his illustrious targets for those years are:
06 – bethel johnson, billy mcmullen, marcus robinson, travis taylor, troy williamson
07- robert ferguson, bobby wade, troy williamson, aundrae allison®, sidney rice®,
by far the best of that entire group is bobby wade. some may say rice now but not in 07.
my point in all of this? tjack has by far a better winning percentage in his first 524 pass attempts than this other qb. any arguements about the quality of the respective teams around these 2 qb’s is at best a push due to the known lack of recievers by jackson. jackson doesn’t even have the same amount of experience in 3 seasons that this other guy got in 1 season. and people still feel jackson shouldn’t be given the start this year?
if the same standards being applied to tjack were applied to this other qb, no one would have ever heard of him. he’d have been benched after year one and been done. but because he got all of his experience in his first year, his growing pains were acceptable. if childress hadn’t played musical qb’s last season, jackson might have gotten all this crap out of the way last year and we wouldn’t be wondering who our qb was going to be. we’d know.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 12, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
“if childress hadn’t played musical qb’s last season, jackson might have gotten all this crap out of the way last year and we wouldn’t be wondering who our qb was going to be. we’d know.”
He didn’t really have much of a choice. You started off the season looking like you would have a 5-7 win season which is absolutely ridiculous considering the talent you guys had. Jackson played extremely poor in both games, and was mainly to blame for both losses. Chances are he wouldn’t have gotten all that crap out of the way. The chances were probably better that he continued to play poorly. Chilly absolutely made the right decision. Gus came in and turned your season around, and there is no arguing that. He went 8-3 and really got your season under way. He came in and it was like you guys were a different football team. You might point out that his TD:INT ratio was poor but the bottom line was he got you 8 wins compared to only 3 losses.
by packallday555 on Aug 13, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
2 points
1) Jackson did not play “extremely poor” in either game. ( 30/59, 51%, 373 total yards [65 rushing], 1TD, 1 INT.) Did he play well? No. Did he play "extremely poor? No. Not to mention a perfectly thrown pass to Shank in the end zone against Indy that got dropped. (Which probably would have won us the game, and kept Jackson as the starter) And not to make excuses for him, but his son was going through open heart surgery or something, so his mind was obviously not there 100% (which is how it should be. Family before everything else in life)
2) Yes Frerotte went 8-3. Did he win those 8 games? Hahahahahahaha. Hardly. It was AD and the defense that won those games.
Don’t get me wrong. I thought it was a good idea to bench Jackson. I knew all along he needed to sit behind a vet for a while (which was the plan until Brad Johnson sucked it up). Look what he did after sitting for a while. He played pretty well. Bottom line is that you can’t say that Jackson played “extremely poor” in those first 2 games. He was not THAT bad.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Aug 13, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
i agree
jackson went 8-4 in 07 with less talent and less experience than frerotte. our defense in those first 2 games was no where near what it became over the course of the season.
chili did it because he thought he had to to save his job. i can understand that from his point but that doesn’t mean it was the right thing to do. if we had left jackson in the whole season do we win the division and make the playoffs? probably. frerotte may be a veteran but he did not play well at all last year. you can’t point to any game last year and say frerotte won it for us. you can point a several games last year and say we might have lost or did lose because of frerotte. how is tj going to do any worse than that?
in the end, chili could have definitively known whether tj was really going to be a starter. if not we could have pushed harder for cutler or cassel or drafted differently. i personally think tj would have matured a lot as a qb if he had played the full season last year and our qb question would be answered and done. now his growth has been stunted and we have to have another unknown season.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 14, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
“If you think 19 games in 3 years is enough time, then you must have a short memory of Quarteback play. 3 years is enough for some QB’s, not enough for others. Especially coming from a simple offensive program like Alabama State.”
This is not enough time for him to do it well, but he should at least be able to make the right reads by now. I wouldn’t expect him to be super successful up to this point. D1-AA is much, much slower then the NFL. But the point I’m trying to make, as well as WVvikings is trying to make is up to this point in his career he should at least be able to consistently make the right reads and he still doesn’t do so. Keep in mind that’s not just my opinion, or wvvikings, but Ron Jaworski’s too.
He better be good this year, and if he’s not him and Chilly will likely be on the move next year. I don’t think there is anyway Jackson can lead you to a SB, and you guys certainly have a SB caliber team.
by packallday555 on Aug 13, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
No QB makes all the right reads all the time
Jackson has proved that he can and has improved year after year. I don’t feel that he is capable of carrying a team to the superbowl yet, but all the Vikings need is a QB to manage the game and get them a TD or 2 and 200-250 yards, and I think TJack is capable of that.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Aug 13, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
For all of our sakes, I hope you guys don't end up
with JD Booty as your starter. I don’t even want to consider how inundated the media and blogs will be with bad puns and rape references.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
ya screw Jackson
It’s not like his numbers have improved steadily every year since coming into the league….oh wait.
Slow down!
You folks who are down on the Vikings and our QBs don’t want to trip over one another in your rush to find excuses for a failed season, before the first pre-season game is played!
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Give Jackson this year
He was drafter far earlier than a project QB should have been, but still has potential. When Jackson started, he had farther to come mentally than 95% of 2nd round QB’s. He’s improved every year, even with the poor start last season. Given his background and how he’s been handled, I understand it taking a little longer for him to develop. I’ve been disappointed we didn’t have a better veteran leading the team that Jackson could learn behind. But now, we’ve reached the critical point. A QB from an elite college program would have been expected to be a year or two faster in development. Jackson either needs to make another big step in performance this year and become at least an average starter, or he’ll be a career backup. Sage has been one of the better backup QBs in the league and to me he sets the bar a QB needs to rise above to be a legit starter. Jackson needs to beat Sage in the QB battle and so far it looks like he’s doing just enough to make that happen.
by ChemErik on Aug 12, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree
with everything you said
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Aug 12, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope...
I hope Tarvaris Jackson made significant progress since I last saw him on the field against the Eagles, and I hope his injury issues are behind him.
Because if Tarvaris plays at the same level he did last season against pressure like Philly brought, and he gets hurt a lot, the Vikings are pretty much screwed if Rosenfels is in fact lagging behind last season’s inconsistent version of T-Jack.
Let the Favre rumors re-re-commence! (That was sarcasm).
by Midnight Rambler on Aug 12, 2009 10:42 AM CDT reply actions
QB competetion NOT
And Sage knows it, I have been to two practices and studied the QBS intensely. It is obvious TJack knows he is the starter. Just look at the way the coaches and receivers are with him. Sage came from a back up situation and identified what was going on as soon as camp started. Once he seen the same thing going on in Minny he could not help but go back to the same feelings and performance as he had there. Also it was obvious to anyone with half a brain the receivers were not giving him the same effort as they were TJack. Except for Harvin who is just trying his best for whoever throws the ball.
The coaching blew this, we will never know if Sage could have been the guy. If they would have shown him he was the guy by getting on the receivers who were dogging it when it was his turn to get the reps he would have gotten the job hands down. Everyone knows what fragile egos qbs have this ain’t rocket science.
by bleedingpurplesince74 on Aug 12, 2009 11:41 AM CDT reply actions
No...
Why would a 31-year-old pack up his family, move to MN, and give up like a cry baby (CUTLER..AHEM..) because some random guy thinks his fealings are hurt? I have an idea folks: Lets not decide our QB based on what random dudes think and actually…gasp..PLAY THE PRESEASON to find out who can handle game speed the best? Jeez people I know you aren’t happy with our QB situation but come on here.
by Jepp The Viking on Aug 12, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
what do you expect?
the last 8 seasons were the real fluke and sage is actually a starter? the guy has been sitting on the bench for 8 years for a reason. the reason is that he’s a back up. not a starter.
and when he gets to minnesota and shows that gasp he’s not really a starter then it’s the receivers faults? or the coaches? or the moon aligning with jupiter on a wednesday?
first off, 2 weeks of training camp isn’t enough to show anything. second, not only does a qb need to learn his receivers tendencies, a receiver also needs to learn his qb’s tendencies. so of course they’re going to have more flow with tjack. third, maybe (and i know this is hard), but maybe tjack isn’t that bad?
nah…it’s moon and jupiter thing.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 12, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
As I sd earlier...
Jaworski did a breakdown on Jackson…..not me, not U, someone that was a good QB and breaksdown film for a living…..And, at end of it all, he(JAWORSKI) sd Jackson is not making reads he should be…Jackson has all physical tools, but does not have it mentally… I saw Jackson play 2 pre-seasons ago and was really excited with his arm and speed,…..but dump offs, throwing to wrong areas, missing guys wide open yr after yr is holding the Vikings back…I can’t stand Childress, but he can’t open up the offense with a QB that mentally can’t do the job…
All hail Jaws, the infallible sage of quarterbacks.
In AP I trust
Just say no to Favre.
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 13, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
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