Going play by play: Sage vs T-Jack and the Special Teams coverage

by Robert Rence on Aug 16, 2009 2:32 PM CDT Comment 22 comments

I wanted to give a bit of a better representation of the two quarterbacks, then my off-the-cuff stuff from Friday night and Saturday morning, so I sat down this afternoon and watched the two quarterbacks in action. I also paid close attention to the Special Teams. After last year, I feel it's necessary. Below is the play by play analysis.

Starting off with Rosenfels:

1st pass: Fake handoff, turns around and fires straight over the middle into Shiancoe's numbers.

2nd pass: Quick swing pass to Tahi for three yards. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

3rd pass: Under pressure from two linemen, Sage rolled out right, stared down Rice, and threw the ball on-target while strafing to his right.

4th pass: Swing pass to Peterson for no gain. I'm still not saying anything.

1st run: Pocket collapses, and Rosenfels runs forward. Dives head-first, forward and away, when three yards away from opposing LB. Also turns the ball away as he dives. He may possibly remember the Rosencopter incident.

5th pass: Fake handoff, rollout right. Sage does a little hop as he tosses the ball on the run. Shiance keeps his stride and catches the ball up near his shoulder. (This was the 4th down pass)

6th pass: Stares down Shiancoe, pass was a little high and away from the defender. Complete.

7th pass: Quick pass to Rice is high, but complete.

A few plays later, Rosenfels uses a hard count to bring the D-line off-sides.

8th pass: Fake hand-off, pass downfield to Johnson. Rosenfels stares down his receiver again. Johnson has to slow down to catch the ball and the pass is defended.

9th pass: Pass to Johnson. He turns around and makes a small hop to catch the ball.

10th pass: Stares down Shiancoe again. Another on-target pass.

11th pass: Dropped by Kleinsasser in Troy Williamson fashion.

12th pass: Screen pass to Chester Taylor.

13th pass: Out of Bobby Wade's reach.

Additionally, while Sage was on the field, the Vikes got 8 First downs, went 1/4 on 3rd down, 2/2 on fourth down and got one TD and one FG.

And now, the T-Jack.

1st pass: Attempts to throw the ball and it falls out of his hand.

2nd pass: Hits Rice mid-stride, but Rice bobbles the ball and drops it.

3rd pass: Hit immediately after throwing the ball, ball is off-target to field left and way above Johnson's head.

4th pass: Jackson hops as he throws, ball is high, but on-target.

5th pass: Jackson out-throws Reynaud by about a foot. Jackson has no pressure.

6tth pass: Jackson throws the ball several yards over Dugan's head. Again, Jackson has no pressure.

1st run: Jackson scrambles out of bounds for a first down.

7th pass: Rolls out and completes a screen pass to Young in traffic.

8th pass: Pressured and throws the ball away with a defender hanging on him.

9th pass: Thrown immediately after the ball is snapped to his left. 3 yds. There may be a possible connection here.

10th pass. Quick swing pass, on target. 3 yds. Anyone else noticing a trend?

11th pass take one: Ball thrown away while inside pocket. False start penalty on opposing Defense.

11th pass take two: Straight ahead to Dugan. Pass completed.

12th pass: On target to Dugan.

13th pass: Low and away from Reynaud, but he makes a shoestring catch.

14th pass: Fake handoff and rolls out. Chased and ball is tossed short, low, and out of bounds to Williams on the Sideline.

15th pass: Tossed to Moore, high and on the sideline. Pass is completed until Lacey drills Moore, forcing him to drop the ball out of bounds.

Additionally, while T-Jack was on the field, the Vikes got 7 First downs, went 3/8 on 3rd down, and got a FG.

Besed off of this data, I feel Rosenfels was a more accurate with the ball, In cases where Jackson was throwing the ball down the field, (His strong point over Rosenfels) he was consistantly inaccurate. Both had a pitiful 3rd down conversion rate, Rosenfels was able to accrue one more first down than T-Jack, in less plays, though I count the Defensive Off-sides 1st down on his total due to the hard count pulling them off.

Special Teams Coverage:

1st kickoff was received at the 10 yd lne and returned to the 22 yd line.

2nd kickoff was received at the 6 and returned to the 17 with a nice, open-field tackle by Frampton.

1st punt was kicked to the 5 yd line and returned to the 17 yd line. The punt coverage team was significantly over-kicked.

3rd kickoff was received and the 8 yd line and returned to the 27 yd line.

4th kickoff was kicked 5 yards into the endzone and returned to the 14 yd line.

2nd punt had the returner getting hit by Glen Holt as he caught the ball. The returner fumbled but was lucky the ball rolled out of bounds.

3rd punt was a fair catch at the 19 yd line.

4th punt was out of the end zone.

5th punt was another fair catch at the 10 yd line.

Both the first punt and the third kickoff were examples of the danger of line-drive kicks. Unless your in the endzone, you should not be able to run 15 yards before you see your first defender. And in punts, if it was Hester back there, he would have had the space necessary to run it back. You know how many yards returners run it back after a fair catch? Zero. I don't care that it's not as far, our defense is able to handle the field being a bit shorter.

Alright, that's the last I'm going to say on the subject. I'll have another review next Sunday.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

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Jackson usually looks sharper than this in the preseason. At least, he has the last two preseasons.

Either he has regressed, or his knee is affecting his throwing motion. Anyone know which knee was injured and whether it was his plant foot?

Sage had a good series, 5 for 5 on his first drive. But we can’t be labeling him the starter just yet. Let’s see him against a real pass defense. I mean, Indy’s STARTERS gave up an average of 68% completion to opposing QB’s last year.

by Bjorno on Aug 16, 2009 3:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Haha ya

And their whole secondary didn’t start but still Jackson should be able to complete more then 46% of his passes. Especially against 2nd and 3rd stringers!

by packallday555 on Aug 16, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Touche, sir. Touche.

Jackson did not look good, which just kills me with all his talent. Argh.

Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com

Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!

by Manimal on Aug 16, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we are going to take Sage’s performance with a grain of salt, we have to do the same for Tjack.

Something didn’t look right with him, we will see if it continues in the next 3 games.

by Bjorno on Aug 16, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I heard

I think from someone on here Jackson possibly was hurt? So maybe that’s why he performed poorly.

by packallday555 on Aug 17, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He has a sprained MCL in his left leg,

Favoring that leg would cause a right handed QB to not fully transfer his weight forward on a pass, which could explain the over-throws.

We will have to see on Friday if things change.

by Bjorno on Aug 17, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

1Q vs 2Q

Sage compiled his stats in 1 quarter, along with a touchdown and a field goal. T-Jack got his in 2+ quarters, and was never able to bring it home for TD.

Watching the game and watching the two of them was very informative on a gut-level as well. Sage looked like he knew what he was doing, and every single down he further confirmed it. I actually found myself relaxing and enjoying the show. When T-Jack took over, I got that panicky feeling back again as he seemed to be off-timing, wrong place, wrong foot, wrong pass, barely surviving. I can’t explain exactly what it was that T-Jack was doing wrong (other than not stepping into his pocket protection), he just never seemed to have a handle on things.

We have 3 more games to see which of these two guys will be the starter, and until today, I was pretty sure it was going to be Jackson. But he looked nothing like he did at the end of last year’s regular season; he’s going to have to really step it up next week.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Aug 16, 2009 6:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the panicky feeling

Is excatly how I feel about Jackson haha

sugar + water + purple

by Grape Drank on Aug 16, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

All Longtime Viking Fans...

know the “panicky feeling” well.

by purplegrey on Aug 16, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks For the Breakdown!

I couldn’t watch the game and only saw the NFL.com hi-lights, which didn’t show everything.

i’m a TJ supporter, so I’m a little biased here, but can someone tell me in an impartial manner how big a difference playing w/ the 2’s really makes? In the NFL, things happen so quickly, timing and precision really are a large part of the passing game, no?

Were there plays where 2nd or 3rd string receiver did a 5 yard out instead of an 8 yard out, and TJ was throwing for 8? Could TJ be used to Berrian speed, but miss the passes b/c he got Nick Moore or Paretta instead?

Rice dropped a TJ pass – that wasn’t TJs fault, and I just read this on AV: “Reynaud appeared to pull up a bit while pursuing a 35-yard pass from Jackson in the second quarter of Friday’s game that could have gone for a touchdown.” If Reynaud doesn’t pull up and gets a TD, and Rice catches the ball, is the QB battle a little closer? (Rice dropping a pass is less expected than Kleiny dropping one….)

It also sounds like from the above breakdown TJ might have been under a little more pressure than Sage – was that the case?

I’m still rooting for Tarvaris, but I concede that this coming Friday could be make or break for the kid. C’MON TJ, I BELIEVE IN YOU!!!!!!!!!

by JasonAve6413 on Aug 16, 2009 6:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, to my non-expert eyes

Jackson looked lost, and Rosenfels looked composed.

by Spoolinup on Aug 16, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It IS preseason.

Just because he looked bad means nothing.

People are already labeling Sage the starter based on 1 quarter of play, that is just plain silly. Give him 3 more games and then make a decision.

by Bjorno on Aug 16, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Going into this game (which I wasn’t able to watch live, by the way), I was in favor of Jackson. We’ve seen so many noodle-armed-game-managing-aging-veteran-journeyman-versions-of-Brad-Johnson come through town, and none of them have served better than a single year patch, if that. I kept hoping that Jackson would pull his turds together and settle into the job.

But, he’s constantly dinged up.

His deep ball is hardly ever right on.

He doesn’t seem to have much touch or finesse on shorter passes.

He doesn’t have a good play fake.

He gets rattled easily.

So, give me some mo’ Sagacity, please.

by virginia viking on Aug 16, 2009 7:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Great breakdown Rence. IMO, the QB position will be won on what the QBs do on 3rd downs because the Vikings will be asking the QB to keep the chains moving, not carry the game. So I think it is important to note on the 3rd downs that Sage was 1/4 on 3rd down attempts when the ball was in his hands (i.e. passing or scrambling) and while Jackson may have gone 3/8 on 3rd downs as a team, with the ball in his hands on 3rd down, he was 3/6. I’ll take 50% on 3rd downs over 25% every time (For reference, last year Indy had the best 3rd Down % at 50% and Oakland had the worst at 28%). Another thing to check out was the average yards to go, and the yards gained on 3rd down. With the ones, Sage averaged 4.75 yards to go on 3rd down (so average 3rd down read 3rd and 5) and gained 4.5 on those 3rd down plays. Not too bad, but not getting a lot of 3rd down conversions like that. With the 2’s, Jackson averaged 5.2 yards to go (Also 3rd and 5, but almost a half yard more) and he too gained 4.5 yards on his 3rd down chances. Interesting that they both gained around the same number of yards on 3rd down and wonder if that number improves for Jackson when he gets his turn with the 1’s.

Here is the box score so you can check for yourself how everything brokedown by play. Vikings-v-Colts

Looking at the box score also had me wondering, what would the Vikings have done during the regular season on that first drive. If you look, on the first 4th down, the Vikings got to the Indy 48 on a pass from Sage to Wade that came up a yard short for a 4th and 1. If this was a regular season game, does anyone have doubts that the Vikings would punt in that situation? I am also not so sure that they wouldn’t try a FG on the next 4th down, when it was 4th and 2 at the 35. This one is kind of a toss up and really depends on the kind of game you are in, but if it was the first drive of the game, I would think the Vikings would kick a FG at that point, knowing Longwell has the leg (would have been a 52 yarder, Longwell career long is 55) and that he was 6 for 6 from 50+ yards last year. I am not trying to take anything away from what the offense did on that first drive. They looked good taking risks and moving the ball down the field. I am just saying that in the regular season, I don’t see them taking those risks on 4th down and that drive, as good as it looks in the preseason, ends with a punt or a FG at best, and not a touchdown in the regular season.

by vikingfuture8816 on Aug 16, 2009 9:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You’re probably right about the team not going for it on 4th down and less than a foot… something I rarely agree with. I still think that if you have less than 12 stinking inches to go, and you have both AP and CT in your back pockets, with Mount McKinney, Hutch, Sullivan and Loadholdt to do your road-grading, you go for it even during regular season… or you turn in your balls because you obviously have no use for them.

by DCPurple on Aug 16, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a futher note:

On that play, the Colts, had NINE in the box. Six on the line, and three immediately behind, AP STILL gained five yards. Odds are that he’ll get you at least one.

When you go to somebody's house, you don't crap on their floor. Being a fan of one team does NOT give you license to be a dick to fans of another.

by Robert Rence on Aug 17, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s a heck of a temptation to flip a screen, or if a speedster is available, to go deep, lol.

Another thing to consider is that the Colts D has been predicated on speed rather than power, and they’re really not physically equipped to stop a power-run offense. Even with nine in the box, the outcome was weighted on the Viking’s side.

If you ever watch any CFL, you’ll see those guys making do with 3 downs instead of 4. Used to be that it meant that CFL games were long slug-fests, grinding out yardage back and forth with low-scoring games…. but not any more. Those boys are airing it out a LOT, and they allow the 3 receivers to be in-motion. So the receivers can trotting towards the sidelines, then turn up-field and break into a run 5 yards before the ball is snapped, timing it perfectly to hit the line of scrimmage as the ball fires back to a shot-gunned QB. Hate to say it, but it’s a lot more exciting than the NFL has become.

by DCPurple on Aug 17, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Having lived in Montréal for a while, I’ve seen my fair share of the CFL. Ahd yeah, there’s a lot to be said for it. Even so I yearned to see Vikings games every Sunday. There’s something about the NFL. That, and once you become a Vikings fan, there’s no going back. (I’m looking at you, R4f.)

by virginia viking on Aug 17, 2009 2:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sage and T Jack

Here is my impressions from just watching the game.

Sage was solid. He seemed to understand the play and who would be open based on his pre-snap reads. The design of the offense worked extremely well because the pre snap read was always open. With that said, I wasn’t thrilled with how he locked into receivers allowing the safeties to charge and be there immediately on completion. I hope he has some fakes and ability to move safeties with his eyes because he’ll get someone killed locking in like that.

Jackson just looked to be trying too hard. Sage made it look easy just sitting there and tossing passes into the chests of receivers. Jackson was happy feet looking to 5 different guys and then firing laser beams that were usually a bit off the mark.

I honestly want to see Sage be named the starter regardless of how either does in the preseason. Jackson gets hurt every single time anyways so I figure if you start Jackson it is temporary anyways so why bother. He gets hurt and then JDB is suddenly your backup. No thanks.

What I am dreading though is that Percy Harvin will absolutely tear it up this Friday and make Jackson’s stat lines look insane. I mean, they are at home against KC so odds are the O should have a good go at it. Then we’ll be wondering if Sage could have done better. Remember, Berrian was hurt right away and Percy didn’t play so Sage was down possibly our two best receivers, and almost certainly our one best in Berrian.

by Sand0 on Aug 17, 2009 4:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You really think that if Harvin plays well, people will give that credit to Jackson? I hope Harvin plays well, but how about we let them play their preseason games before trying to decide what means what.

by vikingfuture8816 on Aug 17, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it needs to be said

Both teams are not playing regular season ball…it is Vanilla D and O…one thing a poster from another board mentioned was that when Sage came to the line he was talking and giving directions….something TJ did not do….and never does.
Folks keep pointing to the 4th downs and how the team would not do that in regular season games…well they would if they are behind and the clock is running out…and they would also not be in that position if it were not for running Vanilla O’s and D’s.

by vikefan1969 on Aug 17, 2009 11:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Only they weren’t behind and the clock wasn’t running out. Its nice to know that they can get the 4th downs, the Vikings were 40% on 4th down tries last year, but the wasn’t the point or the situation. The situation was an opening drive that would have ended in a punt at the 48. You can play “what if” games and change the variables to fit your point, but that doesn’t change the actual situation.

by vikingfuture8816 on Aug 18, 2009 4:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs