Simms Sees Little Difference Between T-Jack and Favre
Access Vikings points to some interesting comments made by Phil Simms, who thinks the Vikings' regular season record would be identical this season regardless of whether T-Jack or Favre is the starter. I'm wondering what people think of this idea -- as well as Simms' assessment of what Jackson brings to the table:
"But I just think Minnesota is a very talented team. And with the running back, Adrian Peterson, I believe Tarvaris Jackson was the quarterback that fits perfectly with that. Dynamic arm. Can run around and showed - he’s a young guy - that he was progressing at the of last year. We’ll see."
It's a question lacking a clear answer: How many additional wins, if any, is Brett Favre worth to the Vikings? First, I think drawing a line between the regular season and postseason is important: Just based on experience alone, I'd argue that Favre gives the Vikings a considerably better chance to win in the playoffs than Jackson does.
I'm not taking anything away from Tarvaris, but we're comparing a guy who has won a Super Bowl to a guy who has played in one career playoff game. Even if each quarterback would lead the team to the same regular season record, the experience and intangibles brought to the table by Favre make him the better playoff quarterback.
The regular season? Favre might be worth another win or two. This offense is still all about the running game, but Jackson has struggled to move the ball when the running game hasn't been effective. The Vikings are 0-6 when T-Jack has thrown 30 or more passes. With the Jets last season, Favre was 6-6 when he threw 30 or more passes. That's a big difference between these two quarterbacks.
With T-Jack, the offense lives and dies by the running game. The same is largely true with Favre under center, but not quite to the extent that it is for Jackson. Bringing in Favre won't make a radical difference in the regular season record, but if his health holds up, he does give the Vikings an ability to win games through the air.
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At what point did the national media start smoking crack?
Seriously. Favre and T-Jack are equal?!?
‘And the wild things roared their terrible roars and gnashed their terrible teeth and rolled their terrible eyes and showed their terrible claws’.
Not exactly what he said, at least based on the snippet that's quoted.
What I get from this is that he’s saying that Tarvaris is a better fit for the team and that we would end up with the same record with either quarterback, which I agree with.
That’s not to say they would have equal results in the playoffs though, as Gonzo said.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
Charles Woodson is the happiest person on earth right now.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 26, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess what I said was a stretch, but...
Have you not seen the hatred towards Favre in the media these days? A month ago, Favre was the golden child. Then, he throws 1-4 for a team has had spent 3 total days with. I realize you are the biggest opponent of Favre being on the Vikings, but this is a point you must concede.
I really do think they all get together and smoke crack every day.
‘And the wild things roared their terrible roars and gnashed their terrible teeth and rolled their terrible eyes and showed their terrible claws’.
Oh it’s definitely true. Now the media realizes he’s a douchebag. Took long enough.
It’s kind of bittersweet, to be honest. I wish I could take pleasure in it, but it sucks that the Vikings get dragged down with him.
Although, I’m feeling less down about the whole situation. I haven’t warmed up to it by any means, but I’ve somewhat deluded myself into hoping that he actually won’t kill us in a key game, which would then lead to an entire offseason of being slammed for everything from picking up Favre to hiring Childress.
The splitting of my sanity has already begun. Maybe they’ll loan me some of that crack…
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
Charles Woodson is the happiest person on earth right now.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 26, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm with you.
I find myself less and less repulsed. Of course, the first time he throws an interception I’ll be throwing makeshift javilins at his head.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Haha
Would you really expect the media not to take a disliking to him? I would be pissed if I were with ESPN, or any other media network, and I got assigned to tracking Favre. Pretty much everything he has said involving his retirement has been a lie. They probably know it’s a lie, but they still have to report it because it’s there job. I almost feel bad for all the reporters who have had the displeasure of tracking Favre these past couple years.
Thought this was kind of ironic. I just saw a new sportscenter commercial about Favre, and how hards it’s been to follow him as I was typing this post haha.
by packallday555 on Aug 27, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
How many times did the Vikings pass over 30 times last year? The answer is six, and against the following teams:
Green Bay, Tennesse, New Orleans, Detroit, Chicago, and Atlanta.
Loss, loss, win, win, loss, loss.
So the Vikings were 2-4 in that stretch. If Favre is shooting 50% from the throwing 30+ times a game line, he’d probably be 3-3 in that same scenario. At least by that one stastic. It’s entirely possible I FUBARed that up, but that’s my three minutes of research.
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Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
That's regular season.
If you toss in the Eagles game, that’s another loss, so that one is a toss up anyway.
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Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
I was counting them because...
I was trying to figure what Favre’s record would have been in the games the Vikings threw 30 or more times a game. Those were the instances.
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Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Right, but of the 2 that T-Jack played in
They lost both (Green Bay and Atlanta).
I was just saying 30+ passes in general, regardless of who was QB.
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Skol Vikings!
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I understand
I guess I was just pointing that out because the argument Simms is trying to make is that Favre isn’t really a better fit for this offense than Favre is, which I think is ridiculous.
More time than I’ve ever put into research. I shoot from the hip.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
Charles Woodson is the happiest person on earth right now.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 26, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
30 is not that many
if you have that type of offense with quick passes and run after 30 passes for professional qb should be capable not always necessary but capable.
Kind of fascinating to me
How there really are some people who don’t think we’re going to get more wins with Favre taking the snaps. I think it is going to take the regular season to convince them. I’m fully convinced the Vikings are going to start off 3-0, but I think the big swing game to get a lot of people believing in Favre again is to see how he does against GB.
And I agree, it has always been a case of playing as well as our running game is. When we really needed Tarvaris to step up and move the ball down field because we were getting stuffed in the run, and he just couldn’t do it.
It you all did not post about Favre
This sight would be idle for days on end. Is he the only guy on the team or the only name you know?
by bleedingpurplesince74 on Aug 26, 2009 2:38 PM CDT reply actions
If you did not post about how you hate hearing about Favre
This sight would be idle for days on end. Is he the only guy on the team you hate or the only name you hate?
Only one I hate
Would love to hear about how people think our draft choices are coming along, or maybe the latest on the defense. Or just some gushing over A.P.. But noooooooooooooo this is his team offense, defense, and special teams. Speaking of which I did think the Special teams looked alot better so far.
by bleedingpurplesince74 on Aug 26, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
WIth all due respect
Not one of the Recent Fanposts’ main point are Favre. He may be mentioned, but there’s plenty of talk going on over there. Plus, how can he not be the topic of conversation – this is a Vikings Blog and we did just acquire him 8 days ago. I think it is silly to expect otherwise.
8 Days
Seems like 8 Years already
by bleedingpurplesince74 on Aug 26, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, it is the biggest story of the offseason, featuring one of the best in the game, at the most important position in the game.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
Charles Woodson is the happiest person on earth right now.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 26, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
*one of the best in the game one who was one of the best in the game.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
Charles Woodson is the happiest person on earth right now.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 26, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Scared myself for a second.
I swear, it wasn’t a Freudian slip. It was merely a mistake caused by my bitter, sarcastic rambling that has become my adopted form of my communication as my sanity has splitted. Thank you, Brett Favre. You have made my life interesting, if nothing else.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
Charles Woodson is the happiest person on earth right now.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 26, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Phil Simms is Correct
For people who think Favre is some deity who will lead us through the playoffs I would point you here. This team won 10 games last year, against a tougher schedule, while being unable to decide whom to play at quarterback. If you give Tarvaris another year of maturity and a full year of starts, plus a now-healthy E.J. Henderson, 11 or 12 wins would’ve been extremely likely. The team under Favre is unlikely to eclipse this mark. This coupled with the fact that he has a history of murdering his team in the playoffs means we’re paying $12 million to a quarterback this year to divide the locker room and likely provide the exact same results as last year, while giving up on Tarvaris and having to start a new quarterback search next year.
You also note the importance of Favre’s health holding up; he wore down last year, and already has a built in excuse with his torn rotator cuff. He’s doing nothing but providing himself an out. Remember, while Favre may very well win this team some games with his arm this year, he will likely lose them just as many with his poor decisions and costly interceptions.
what! divide a locker room onlr people who say that are new yorkers
and as far as simms goes he wasn’t good enough to hold brett helmet before the game.and no it’s not all about brett the media makes it that way the vikings are the best all around team in the nfl if we can get past the special teams.tarvaris just needs to go away he never will or has gotten the job done most of the frontoffice down to players downt to fans know he’s not that good.
Now you are smoking crack
How can you compare tjoke to Favre. Just for stare\ter the defense will respect Favre more, just this point alone would increase AD total yrd this year. Can you emagine what he could teach the receiver. LMAO
Read the link?
Did either of you read the article he linked to from Cold Hard Football facts?
by JasonAve6413 on Aug 26, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
actually reading? no that might accidentally lead to intelligent coherent posts that have some basis in actual nfl football.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 27, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Painful read
I remember watching everyone of those playoff games with my dad, and wanting to bash my head against a brick wall after everyone was done. The reality is, Favre tends to choke in the playoffs, and towards the end of the year for that matter.
I think you will have somewhere between 9-12 wins with Favre. Him being able to play in the Metrodome as opposed to Lambeau in the cold will help him. I don’t think Chilly will be able to control him, and expect a fair amount on INTs throughout the year. Your o-line struggled last year picking up the blitz, and I don’t see it improving after the loss of Birk, and replacing of Loadholt, who struggles against speed rushers. Favre doesn’t like to get hit anymore, and a lot of the time will throw an errant pass to avoid this. I think it’s obvious he is an improvement from Jackson though. I just don’t know how many more wins he’ll get you, because of his playing style, your o-line, and how much the division has improved since last year.
by packallday555 on Aug 27, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
First of all....
It’s not like Jackson lead this team to the playoffs. How many games did he play last year? Yeah, enough said.
Haha
Favre will have those too my friend. Something I learned the hard way.
by packallday555 on Aug 27, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Simms
Simms is a moron and so is anyone else that thinks Tavaris Jackson is on par with Brett Favre.
Favre in - Adrian gets 2000
I think TJack could win 11 games with this team, and Brett 11 or 12. That said, if defenses crowd the box, Brett Will make them pay. I think Brett can get at least one man out of the box, one man out and AD gets his 2000 yards. In a way I agree with Simms, either guy gets at least 11 wins. I am a TJack fan, and would seriously hate to see him go. My hope is he stays, and learns from Favre, and becomes the QB for our future.
Bingo!
Stack 8,9 men in the box and see how that works out for ya! Favre will make them pay dearly for that. Jackson? Not even close.
If Favre stays healthy for the entire season, Peterson goes over 2,000, and possibly breaks Dickerson’s record.
The Minnesota Vikings - Undefeated in the Playoffs at Lambeau Field!
Yes, but when they DON'T stack the box
And Favre throws into double/triple coverage… You don’t want T-Jack learning that.
he won't have to
he has already said that one reason he came to the vikes, is because he doesn’t have to do it all. he has ap. there won’t be a need to throw how he used to. any other teams that the packers, or jets put on the field, did NOT have a back like ap, so favre needed to do more. i think tj will learn alot from favre this year.
by indianavikesfan on Aug 26, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
He also said that he wasn't coming to the Vikings
Anyone who would believe a lick of what Favre says is crazy. All you can read from Favre is what he does on the field. If we have learned ONE thing is that whatever Favre says means nothing, period.
And if you believe that every drive is going to go like this:
1-10
2-7
3-3
And Favre isn’t going to have to attempt a deep pass… I’ve got some beachfront property in North Dakota to sell you…
Very much agree with this. I don’t believe for a second that he’ll sit back and late AP do all the work. He’ll try to take the game into his own hands.
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
Charles Woodson is the happiest person on earth right now.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 27, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
i hear this argument about favre salivating over 8 men in the box because he is so good and experienced that he will easily be able to take advantage of single coverage.
from a blocking stand point this means that we’ll still have to block the 8 men in the box. if we do great, then favre’s passes will magically make our receivers get separation in single coverage. if we don’t, favre will get dropped on his butt. scramble? no that’s tj’s thing.
favre will take advantage of a stacked box. but not as much as everyone thinks. and for every play that sage or tj wouldn’t take advantage, there will be a play that favre isn’t elusive enough to buy time and will get sacked or throw a pick because he’s getting hit or at best manages to throw it away.
single coverage =/= open receiver.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 27, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Neither teams had RBs that compared to AP, but both teams had RBs that were capable of getting it done. Ahman Green provided Favre with 3 seasons in which he was in the top 10 in rushing yards. (One season of 1,883 yards) Jones was top 5 in the league in rushing last year as well for Favre. A lot of the time it’s not that he HAS to do it all himself, it’s that he WANTS to do it all himself.
by packallday555 on Aug 27, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
It's all in the noggen
Forgive me, I’m new at being a Viking…was part of the Favre package….but from what I have read TJ just hasn’t developed (maybe never will?) the quick read of defenses and ability to change plays on the line….he’s not exactly what you would call a quick release QB…hence, there was some concern that AP would not hold up another year with defenses lining up 5 in the box, cause TJ was not enough of a threat., despite being a healthy young athletic guy. Don’t you guys go getting buyers remorse on me now. Time will tell…..soon it will all be revealed.
exactly...
let GAMEDAY be the final judge…
I believe the 'push off' cost us 'our' SuperBowl...
I believe you 'go for the win'... instead of 'taking a knee'...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Aug 26, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
TJ Makes Reads
He makes them. Not all the time, and obviously w/ his 4 years vs. Favre’s 19, he’s not as good at making them.
However, when he got his perfect QB rating and made that perfect TD pass to Reynaud, the announcers said TJ made the correct read and knew the safety wasn’t going to be in position.
TJ has gotten better, TJ is getting better. I sure hope he stays a Viking, but I know it’s unlikely. Especially since, barring injury, nobody is going to know what the hell Favre is going to do next year until mid-August.
GO VIKES!!!!
by JasonAve6413 on Aug 26, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
simms has it right
i could play qb for the vikings this season i still think we’d win the same number of games as with favre or tjack. i can hand off to ap. i can throw the 2 yarder to tahi.
put me in coach!
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 26, 2009 4:29 PM CDT reply actions
That's over kill buddy. . .I hope you're kidding.
by MikeyBtha612g on Aug 26, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
"Put me in cold! I'm ready to play, today!"
Oh. That was Favre last week…. :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
nope not kidding. i’m only 38 and i’ve never had surgery.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 27, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Hey, he might not be able to scramble like Tarvaris, but gol darnit, he loves football just as much as any other man! Give him a chance!
In AP I trust
F-A-R-V-A =/= F-A-V-R-E
Charles Woodson is the happiest person on earth right now.
by FarvaForTheVikings on Aug 27, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
AHH-Shucks!
I believe the 'push off' cost us 'our' SuperBowl...
I believe you 'go for the win'... instead of 'taking a knee'...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Aug 27, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
First, I think drawing a line between the regular season and postseason is important: Just based on experience alone, I’d argue that Favre gives the Vikings a considerably better chance to win in the playoffs than Jackson does.
Post-season games are about as random as it gets. Jackson couldn’t beat the Eagles because the offensive line that was so awful at pass blocking throughout the season got dismantled by the Philly front 7 and Jim Johnson’s blitz packages.
Favre’s success in the post-season this decade has not been very good either, mostly because too many things outside his control didn’t bounce his way, particularly an offensive line getting its ass handed to them. Which is true of any quarterback. Simms is correct that there is very little difference between quarterbacks. 95% of football games are won by offensive lines and defensive front 7’s if you respect the opinions of Chuck Knoll and Bud Grant. So I think your assessment is speculative and incorrect. As much as we want to believe that a hero QB wins superbowls, it’s an act of laziness to believe it.
The Vikings are 0-6 when T-Jack has thrown 30 or more passes. With the Jets last season, Favre was 6-6 when he threw 30 or more passes. That’s a big difference between these two quarterbacks.
REALLY bad use of this stat here. Jackson only threw 30 times when the Vikings weren’t getting it done on defense and in the running game because they only have been throwing 40-45% of plays here since Childress took over. Favre was in a more pass-friendly offense and that’s where you get your ambiguous number for him.
With Childress, the offense lives and dies by the running game.
FIXED
Based on health, I'd say Jackson would be better post-season
Favre should mean an extra win during the season (11-13 wins vs. 10-12 wins w/ Jackson or Rosenfels). But, with the age and health issues I see that performance dropping toward the end of the season. Jackson has improved every year and I’d expect him to be better at the end of the year than at the beginning. The guy left out on this post, Rosenfels, I would expect to be the most steady throughout the season.
I don't agree
Look at how Favre made Thomas Jones into the leagues leading rusher for the first half of the season. This is what happens when you have to pay attention to the passing game and can’t beat the QB pre-snap. Favre is good as they come on pre-snap reads and will make people pay for loading the box. T’jack can’t come close to matching this. This will open up AD and then there’s Harvin. No way Favre doesn’t add 2-3 wins and brings us thru the post season better than T’jack
Farve made Thomas Jones?
Interesting, Thomas Jones rushing last 4 years
2005 Chi 1335
2006 Chi 1210
2007 NYJ 1119
2008 NYJ 1312
Fairly consistant if you ask me. AND, 2008 WAS NOT Thomas Jones BEST year, but that’s quibbling, NOR was 2008 significantly better than 2006 or 2007, a factor of only 10 or 15%.
Regards,
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
no no it was favre! favre also paved the way for oj to be the first 2000 yd back so ap is in the book baby!
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 27, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
We will win with our defense
It won’t be pretty but it will be our defense and Oline that will determine our win-loss record more than who is at QB.
Farve brings more than whats on the field!
Farve knows this offence, as well as any coach on the team. We all know the coaches need help with calling plays. He is another coach on the field and in the locker room. If Tj is man enough too stay around a year, I think he will learn something, working on a weakness that may make him something special . Plus with the NFL today it will take probably two qbs too make it through a season. Maybe not, I can’t remember if there are any more new rules protecting qbs. The hit in the KC game with the Minn. defensive line man was right on the chest maybe nicking the chin. It was a beautiful rush! Brutally powerful. Future pro bowler there! It was too good of a hit! We still need a d-back at sharpers position. This could be the kryptonite for are Vikings!
If Simms thinks that they will win no more with Favre than TJack
… then doesn’t that mean that he expects opponents to keep putting 8-9 in the box? I mean, if they pout in less, doesn’t that automatically mean that AP should do better, and if he does better we should be better, right? So, Simms is basically saying that everyone keeps playing the run against us, and Favre isn’t even good enough anymore to recognize and take advantage of favorable 1 on 1 matchups? And is he also saying that TJack scrambling is a GOOD thing even though everyone is playing the run against us all the time? Really?
Really, is that where he’s going? My logic is a little convoluted, but for anyone who believes AP is the franchise player of this team, and the ultimate decider of how we doe, it’s hard to see how you can explain him saying anything else.
see my post above
single coverage =/= open receiver
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 27, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
No, but...
Single coverage = open receiver more often
Single coverage is better than double coverage. If they are doubling someone, that means one of a few things. Either A.) a corner, safety, or linebacker is blitzing, leaving one less guy to guard against the pass, B.) someone is going to be single covered somewhere, and unless they are a true top of the league cover person, that generally means a higher percent chance of completion (over double coverage), or C.) there is at least one less person on the line, leaving the way open for the running back.
Obviously, it doesn’t make it a home run everytime, but throwing a quick slant to Harvin on a seven man blitz beats the hell out of throwing the ball up deep to a double covered Berrian. One has a much higher success rate. You know?
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
i agree 100%
but watch our games from last year. there are a ton of pass plays in which the qb had 2 – 2.5 seconds to drop back, make the read, and make the throw.
i don’t care who you are or what the coverage is. it’s impossible to be consistently successful under those circumstances.
go back and watch the playoff game. you can easily find 10 pass plays where tj had 2.5 seconds or less to make the throw. mostly in the 2nd half.
will it always be that way? no, sometimes you’ll have 3-4 seconds which is adequate and favre will make them pay. but so would sage or tj for the most part. favre is better in that area.
but what about those 2 second decisions? would your rather have tj scrambling or favre gunning it? 10 years ago that’s a no brainer. take favre gunning it, more often than not he’ll be successful. but now? no thanks, i’ll take tj scrambling.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 27, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I watched KC game
TJack was throwing off wrong foot, floating balls, see 1st TD pass…NO WAY TJack is even close to Favre…I have hated Favre for all his Packer career, but I understand Favre can fill hole at QB we have had… TJack rarely makes reads correctly..(see 1st pre-season game as example)…so wow, TJack had great game against bad defense, who played 2nd and 3rd stringers…Like Duluth Vikings sd.. Now when defenses put 8-9 in box, we have QB that will make them pay..Peterson will have much more room to run….This is also good for our Defense…Our offense should spend more time on field, leaving our defense fresher late in each game….And those points has me really excited for this season to start…Could it be our 1st Superbowl win ?..We can only hope !!!
Simms is Right
He’s not saying that T-Jack and Favre are the same, only that with each one’s strengths and weaknesses, the final team standings would probably come out the same. Favre might win some games that T-Jack would have lost, and vice versa. If they’re played more or less equally through the year, it’s all a moot point anyway.
I think the Vikings will finish somewhere between 10-6, and 12-4, with a bias towards 12-4. They’ll get to the playoffs, and that’s where the equation changes. That’s where Favre starts to make a significant difference. And that’s why I think he should never play more than half a game all year long, to try and stay fairly fresh for the post-season where he’s needed.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Agreed!
The losses (4-6) are pretty much there, it’s fairly easy to find 4 in the schedule. Generally speaking a win by 3 points is just as valuable as a win by 10-14 points in the standings. I can see Farve’s wins more comfortable, not necessarily turning losses into wins.
The 3 toughest games could be Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and depending on where the playoff race sits, NY Giants. I see those as losses with ANY of the QB’s. ALL are winable.
The one thing Farve brings, at least at the beginning, is that his reputation requires the defense to respect the pass. 6-8 games in, his performance will determine if that is still true.
Any of the QB’s (teams) fortunes should improve IF the special teams can perform consistantly as they have so far. That improvement will do as much to increase wins, and is not really QB related.
Farve throws int’s with much greater frequency than T-Jax, modestly more than Sage, YET of the QB’s, Farve probably has the greatest ability to recover from an int.
Regards,
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
Stretching the Field
If Favre can force defenses to back off the line and respect the pass, they’ll have to adjust their entire scheme against the Vikings. No more setting up almost every down with 8-9 guys in the box unless they want to give up 10-30 yards on every play to Shanko, Berrian, Rice, or Harvin. I can’t see how T-Jack can sit back there watching how Favre does this, and NOT learn something about how to be a better QB.
One of the things I saw during the Chiefs game that I really liked was T-Jack and Booty standing together with the playbook open, discussing something while they were finger-drawing on the pages. I saw Favre doing the same thing with one of the WRs. It made it clear to me that these guys aren’t a bunch of lone rangers, they’re working together as a team to understand what’s going on, how to best implement their attacks. While they may be in competition for positions, that doesn’t stop them from being a team, first and foremost.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
that's a big if.
if i’m coaching agains the vikings i bring 8-9 in the box every time except 3rd and long (and maybe even sometimes then) regardless of who is qb. are the vikings going to pick up all those guys?
if they’re lucky they can pick it up with 7 guys. that will leave 3 receivers against 3 db’s with the qb having about 3 seconds to find the open guy. will the receiver be open? what if he’s not? does favre throw it anyway? (catch/incomplete/interception?) favre’s gonna throw it. you know he is. that’s what everyone loves/hates about him.
if we’re not lucky, or we send out an extra receiver, is favre going to be able to elude the pressure and find the open guy and make the throw in less than 2 seconds? that’s about how much time tj had last year on most blitz plays.
i’m sorry, we haven’t been shown that we have receivers capable of making defenses pay for putting 8 in the box. sometimes they’re open but most times they’re not. the qb has very little control over that.
hopefully rice breaks out this year and harvin is the real deal in the slot. otherwise we’ll see the same things from favre this year that we saw from tj last year only with more sacks and throw aways because tj is more mobile.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 27, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I've been thinking the same thing
This is the Favre of 2009 we’re talking about. Favre has had great years and some great games but has really stunk up the place in big games over the past decade. Resting Favre in the second half sounds great but thanks to his signature INTs the games will all be close at halftime. I’d love to see how the back up does in the second half. However, I can’t see Brett letting them come in and make him look bad! In addition, how will Brett hold up for a full season??? Shakey at best.
Am I a big T-Jack fan? No. I wonder if he’ll ever be able to read a defense or find the open man downfield. What do I expect this year? Probably 10-6 and one playoff game.
+1
“He’s not saying that T-Jack and Favre are the same, only that with each one’s strengths and weaknesses, the final team standings would probably come out the same. Favre might win some games that T-Jack would have lost, and vice versa. If they’re played more or less equally through the year, it’s all a moot point anyway.”
Exactly! Too many people think he is saying talent-wise, Favre and Jackson are equal but that’s not the case. Jackson successfully scrambled away from the blitz a lot of the time, and we know Favre will not be able to do that. Jackson threw the ball at WRs feet when they were wide open, and Favre will likely not do this. They both have things that they will do which will help you, or hurt you. There kind of exact opposites, and I think Favre could be 1, maybe 2 wins better for you guys.
by packallday555 on Aug 27, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Favre and T-crack are equal huh. LOL. What planet is Mr. Simms from?
That analogy is the same as saying a Ferrari is the same as a Yugo…. One is a Hall of Famer. The other is a 3 year experiment gone bad…..
Simms knows......
A little about QBing as his history proves but was unable to pass it onto his son as Archie did. What is he doing trying to compare Jackson to Favre. Nothing Jackson has done should put his ability on the same page as Favre’s is maybe involving his foot speed of which nobody will ever doubt. But in every other area, Jackson does not measure up in any way, not even close. Too bad good space was used to report this rather than telling us how some of the rookies are doing throughout camp. It would be nice to read some good or bad things about our draft choices after 1 and 2. Thank you.
Bob
i think some people are missing the point
simms isn’t comparing favre to tj in favre’s last mvp season. if that were the case of course favre is so much better, tj was like 9 yrs old then!
simms is comparing favre and tj in 2009. how would the vikings do this year with favre vs tj? most people say 10-12 wins with tj, 11-13 wins with favre. is that a big difference? no. then simms is correct.
by iseepurplepeople on Aug 28, 2009 9:58 AM CDT reply actions
+1 again
Alot of you are missing the point. Simms is comparing Favre in Chillis offense to Tj in Chillis offense. run, run, pass for the 1st (hopefully) repeat. If you don’t realize this where have you been for the last 3 yrs.
For all the hopefuls that think Brett is gonna come in here and start implimenting his own offense (get real) if that were to happen then Chilli really would be looking for a job at the end of the year. That would be proof positive that Chilli doesn’t have control of the team at all.
To all the Tjax haters, did you happen to listen (not just hear) the praise that was given to Brett about his reads and throws in his 1st outing. He threw the ball to where the receivers were supposed to be, and that the receivers need to get to those spots. If you can believe that then you have to understand the catch 22 that Tjax is in:
1) He doesn’t have the professional career that Favre has to make those throws and people will believe he’s making the right reads eventhough he’s not connecting with receivers.
2)This is a performance based league, you have to make plays to keep your job or to even get a chance to keep your job.
Brett learned this when Tjax was about 10yrs old, thats why he plays the way he does. He’s not checking down if he can force that ball between 2 defenders and the receiver can hold on “its all good” when it doesn’t work he’s washed up.
Everyone needs to learn and grow in this league, we have a young team. Stop believing the media hype about us needed to win now thats BS if we can get all our youth on the right page we could have a dynasty.
p.s. before Brett our oldest person was Pat Williams at 36. Come on lets think people.
by midnightwonder on Aug 28, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions

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