This Team Needs Jackson
by Jordan's Uncle on Sep 2, 2009 11:12 PM CDT
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Here's why- the Vikes are in a "win now" mode. They have the complete roster, the total package, the whole enchilada......Farve is good for a year or two at best, but what if he goes down? Bring in Sage? Ok, but what if he plays poorly or gets hurt? Booty? Not ready. When you have Allen, Williamses, AD, Winfield, Henderson, etc, etc, etc, you cannot let the team go down with the QB. SO, keep Tjack! If we lose Farve AND Sage, we still have Tjack who gives us a shot. Booty dosen't. Our window is now, and we better have all the bases covered. Even the "what if" ones.
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well
with the 30th pick and chester taylor, we’ll easily be able to trade up and get sam bradford or colt mccoy.
...add #4 to the mix and see what you get... Championship.
by Macdaddy4508 on Sep 4, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Correct me if i'm wrong...........
but I think that chester is a free agent after this season.
Eh
Chester will be 32, and his play will start declining. Teams won’t give up a top 10 pick for that.
by packallday555 on Sep 5, 2009 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Lots of Tread Left
He’s been playing behind AP most of the time, which never made much sense to me. Why not play them both together? But the result has been that CT has a lot less wear and tear on his body than a comparable back of his age, I think he has more years left in the tank than you think.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Good points
I suppose he has only been the featured back one season in his career. Taylor and a 1st round pick would definitely be worth a top 10 pick.
by packallday555 on Sep 6, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
The way your looking at things is dumb imo. Favre gets hurt we got sage ok? what if he gets hurt? and so on sage is a good backup so is t-jack and booty the only situation that works good is to keep them all.
"If at first you don't succeed - Skydiving isn't for you"
I don't agree
You have to remember if tjoke is on this team he will be a cancer. You did not see how he look on the bench. I see Favre, sage,and booty standing together looking at game picture. they could be discussing about the formation. tjoke was nowhere to be found. I really sense that he will be a cancer. We don’t need someone whose is sit on the bench and pout.
+1
i really hope that won’t happen, but it does show the potential of tj becoming a cancer.
here is a small part of a story from a interview with tj from the pioneer press: “Jackson said, he isn’t learning as much from Favre as one would expect.” is it because favre is not a good teacher, or is tj pouting and doesn’t want to learn. in his defense, in the interview, he did state that he wants to learn how to read defenses the way favre does. i would think that pouring over defensive pics during a game would be a great start.
by indianavikesfan on Sep 3, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Tjack is not the kind of guy that will become a cancer.
He is a reserved, quiet guy. Which is a bit of a disadvantage when you are a Quarterback.
Is he unhappy that he doesn’t have a chance to start this year? Of course. But the guy has never showed ONE sign that he will create an issue in the locker room.
I would much rather see Tjack split out wide than Favre.
wow i’m pretty sure jackson is not going to look at the game picture throughout the whole game. it was one shot when favre wasnt looking at it and tjack was
LMAO
You really did not see him pouting. It is not just watching game pic. But when you are weak at something you should be trying to learn. I don’t see him trying to learn.
maybe he just had gas and was sparing his fellow qbs?
by iseepurplepeople on Sep 4, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah you should go with that. >pat pat pat<
by iseepurplepeople on Sep 8, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I totally agree with you
We all know how good TJack can play when the pressure is off. What happens in a “must win” situation and Favre goes down? Who do you send in? Sage who has ZERO game time experience with the Vikings? Or TJack, who has some good experience, and can come in and play extremely well when he doesn’t have a chance to “out think” himself? My money’s on TJack
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Sep 2, 2009 11:33 PM CDT reply actions
I agree as well.
"He didn’t call me or anything. It was an accident, but a lot of people would have called to see how someone is doing after they got hit in the head. Especially if they had to go on the DL." — Morneau on pitcher Ron Villone after an April 2005 beaning.
I agree On jackson
I still think he should be our #2. He knows our offense way better then Sage or Booty. He’s more athletic. He’s shown he can come off the bench and lead the team to victories. The guy has put a lot of time into this organization and visa versa. I know that shouldn’t dictate your position on the field but I saw alot of positives about him at the end of last year. The Eagles game hurt, but it was something he needed to experience. Maybe next time he will be ready when a team blitz’s 70% of the time.
SKOL
What he said!
I have been contemplating this issue for a week. I hear a lot about how Sage turned it over in ctritcal situations in Houston. Not sold one the chap yet. Is it my imagination, or do USC QB’s just seem to never make it in the league, sans Palmer who we’ll give a pass to, but I just don’t see Booty doing anything. USC basically carried him.
I saw him in Dallas last August (preseason game 4) and it looked like he didn’t even belong in the huddle. Guy was a jerk after the game too. Wouldn’t sign a jersey after 8 other Vikings had signed it. Acted like snobby bitch, at that’s how my daughter saw it.
That aside, his sketchy play makes a very good argument for why we should keep Jackson. As the first guy said, we can’t afford to have it any other way. Jackson is our best choice for the last QB spot. (Actually he may be more fit for the 2nd spot than Rosenfels). He’s sure a hell of a lot quicker, knows the offense, and has more chemistry than Sage.
Jettison Booty now.
Steve S.
Ventura, CA
How are we win a must win now situation?
I never understood this. The majority of this team if just entering it’s prime or has only been around a few years. Yes, may have some on defense that might be getting up there in years, but certianly not enough to warrant hitting the panick button like the Vikings already did a few weeks ago. As for Jackson, he hasent shown anything to me that he will become some class QB at any point in the 3 years he has been a starter. He does not seem to handle pressure well, last years Wildcard game in point. Did well when he took over Ferotte but once named the VIkings starter permantely, folded. Not something that I see making this buy much more then a back-up. The expirement needs to end. Draft a QB, keep Sage aroung for a few years and if a decnt QB becomes avaliable via F.A., go for it. Besides, keeping T.J. as a third stringer? I seriously doubt he would go for it. As for Booty, I could careless either way, whether we kept him or released him.
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk"
But id doesnt neccesarily mean a QB has to take 3 or 45 years to develop either. Look at Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger, not stellar QB’s, but on good teams and are fairly consistant game to game, something laking in T.J. Brady and Big Ben won Super Bowls in their second year’s. Both started out at the bottom of the barrel. Just takes finding a QB either draft or via F.A., including a diamond in the rough that could do it. T.J., no, but Sage? Who knows, possibly, maybe not. He has been on crappy teams since he’s been in the NFL, so even at 8 years, still not a well known commodity. Booty? Again, who knows. Im just saying, wether of not draft or F.A., still no reason to panic.
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk"
“Look at Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger, not stellar QB’s, but on good teams and are fairly consistant game to game,”
Huh??? Tom Brady is most definitely a stellar QB. I agree Big Ben is not, but Brady is. He is probably the most accurate QB in the league, and has one of the stronger arms in the league. He also is probably the smartest QB in the league. Throwing 50 TDs compared to just 7 INTs is amazing.
by packallday555 on Sep 3, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno about strongest arm. I’ve seen Moss have to slow down quite a few times to haul in his passes. Everything else was right on though.
Just because Randy-Freaking-Moss had to slow his jets to catch a few passes, does not mean his arm is any less strong.
But, I would not put him in the top five in arm strength.
Haha
Well obviously his arm doesn’t compare to Cutler, Favre, Vick, Russell, and Jackson. But his arm is strong enough to be able to get it done in the league.
The main point I was trying to make was there is no way Brady is a “not stellar QB”.
by packallday555 on Sep 5, 2009 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Hence why
Not steller, as in Superarm Superman and thats what I meant. He is very smart, avoids idiotic mistakes and hence froth, can throw 50TD’s compared to 7 INTs. That is more brains then strength, and that is the point I am making with not being steller, the physical aspect, not the mental. I would rather have someone who is smart and rarely screws up then one that can fling a pass 80 yards down feild into triple coverage with another couple guys heading in and watching it get run back for a TD.
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk"
by VikesFaninNM on Sep 6, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
in the 3 years he has been a starter
i love to hear all the tj bashers spout this.
are you talking about his first year when he started 2 game?
or his second year when he started 12 (i’ll even give you a ‘season’ on this one) and went 8-4
or his third year when he was benched after 2 games? yes he started a few (3) at the end as a backup.
how is that 3 years as a starter? show me 48 games as a starter (that’s 3 seasons worth) and i’ll show you a tjack worthy of being a starter. (he’s only had 19 total starts.)
even given all that he’s still managed to get better and better every year.
by iseepurplepeople on Sep 4, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I say we get something for Jackson while we can. And, honestly, if we’re getting a string of QB injuries, Jackson wouldn’t last long anyways. The guy’s an injury magnet out on the field.
+1
If we can help get an extra draft pick to put us over the top on getting the 1st round QB of the future in the draft this year, then we pull the trigger. This is supposed to be a good year for QB’s, so let’s go get us one and let him hold a clipboard for a year or hopefully even two like GB did with A Rogers… This team has a solid core of good players, we can mortgage the draft a little bit to pick up a superstar in the making… What else do we need to worry about this year?? Here are the aging positions for the Vikings:
LT — Still a few years out
LG — not necessarily something you draft for in high rounds, also a few years
LB — Leber’s getting older, but still a good player
DT - Replacing Pat Williams is nearly impossible, but we have some depth Needs to happen THIS YEAR!
QB -
Everybody else is pretty locked in, and other than Phat Pat, nobody else is getting too super old…
I am going to make a prediction... and you may say I am crazy.
But if Tjack get’s traded or released, and he works hard and is professional about the deal, we WILL regret getting rid of him.
That is not to say that he will be an amazing QB. Just that he will perform better than many expected, and will likely cause us some troubles when we play against him.
Not that crazy
I’ve seen enough I will predict Jackson will end up being somewhere in the range of a career back-up to an average starter. He hasn’t shown the leadership to be a superstar, but isn’t about to fall out of the league either. He certainly could go to another team like Jacksonville and make us pay in a few games in the future.
You’re probably right but I would argue that the transition to another team could force Jackson to improve. Look, we all saw Orlovsky run out of the endzone for the Lions last year; now he plays for the Texans and looked ok. It took Randy Moss a couple years of languishing/rotting in Oakland before he reinvigorated himself in New England. I’m saying that perhaps Jackson will be put in a position to learn another team’s offense without being rushed. Jackson gets hurt occasionally, though not seriously, and I feel his confidence with us is damaged goods.
How Jackson is handling this is something we can't know
without being around during day-to-day activities. If he really feels that hopeless, then yes, he should be traded. I would like to either see a trade or a contract extension (even if it only adds 1 year at this point). He’s either the future or he’s gone, our plan for him should drag in limbo.
it must drag in limbo
because once again our coach has left it there. as much as i back tj i’m not 100% sold on him. if chili hadn’t bungled it last year we or had let tj learn on the bench for a full 2 years we would know exactly where we stand. but we don’t.
tj needs a full season to prove he’s a starter. in that season he will either prove it or not. you can’t say a guy that has improved every single year is a waste and we should cut our losses. you also can’t sign him long term if he really doesn’t have what it takes.
he’ll either be traded and prove that he is a legitimate starter on another team, or a flop, while we hope we can scrounge up a qb for next year. meanwhile, if tj is successful elsewhere, we’ll get the joy of watching sage and booty battle it out next year while watching 3 other nfl teams trot out starting qbs in their 20’s that we have lost in the past 3 seasons.
by iseepurplepeople on Sep 4, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I want TJ to stay with us as badly as anybody, but comparing anybody to Moss’s comeback after languishing in Oakland is unfair. Moss had already demonstrated that he was probably the most physically gifted and capable WR of all time and was clearly underperforming because he was surrounded by dead weight. His re-emergence was completely predictable, given the system he walked into and the talent he was finally surrounded by.
by Anthony Carter on Sep 5, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I have made this EXACT same argument...
When you have Allen, Williamses, AD, Winfield, Henderson, etc, etc, etc, you cannot let the team go down with the QB. SO, keep Tjack!
… as the reason to TRADE Jackson… not keep him!
I feel like I am Rip Van Winkle, and have awaken to amazingly find that everyone now sees Jackson as a good regular season and playoff quarterback….
I still do not.
I think we should get the best that we can for him in a trade. As soon as possible. I will live with the possibility— and take the chance— of Jackson coming back to hurt us someday.
by Sonic on Sep 3, 2009 9:52 PM CDT reply actions
Nobody is saying that he is going to be a good qb, only that he is a good option at backup with some upside in his scrambling ability. Not to mention he has been in the system for 3 years and he is cheap at ~$600k.
Why not keep a guy like that.?
Good point, Bjorno.
Your point is well taken, but I do not think T-Jack has officially taken on the role of "career backup" yet. Like Sage has. Even on this blog you still see references to T-Jack as "the quarterback of our future" (as in starting quarterback.) As long as management also views T-Jack as a potential starter, there will be a little built-in excuse there for not addressing the starting QB position fully. Even this year before Favre arrived it was understood that career backup QB Sage was brought in to "push Jackson". Push Jackson? Push him for what? IMHO the only thing anyone should be pushing Jackson for is the backup role. So in all of this we are not just talking about “a guy like that”— we are talking specifically about T-Jack.
After the Kansas City audition, Jackson’s value is about as high as it is going to get. Especially if other teams see him as a potential starter (that’s their decision.)
So while your post makes perfect sense "on paper", there is a sort of psychological side to this (pertaining specifically to Jackson) that tells me it is (finally) time to make a clean break of this and let all parties involved move on with their lives.
And yes, in the meantime— for this season— I will go with Sage as our backup.
by Sonic on Sep 4, 2009 5:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Tjack is smart enough to figure out that it is Brett-Freaking-Favre, and NOT Sage Rosenfels taking away his starting job. Personally, were I in his shoes, I would be miffed at the pickup but not upset. Sure, my ego would be bruised a bit, but it’s not like they benched me for some rookie unknown or journeyman backup.
He seems like he is not the type of guy to let this kind of thing get to him. He has taken his lumps on this team quite well and has shown that he takes advantage of the time he spends on the bench. He has gone through a lot in the last 3 years on this team and has proven himself a team player. I like a guy like that on our team.
My argument is not to get rid of Sage in favor of Tjack, but to get rid of Booty rather than Tjack. The only reason Booty even made this team is because he came from USC. He has not shown that he is a better option than Tjack at the position and he is paid roughly the same.
Again, your points are all well taken
… and I definitely agree with you about T-Jack seeming to be a pretty good guy. He has always looked supportive on the sidelines even when Gus was in—- and that impressed me.
But if keeping him on the roster means we don’t pursue a starting QB - and T-Jack is our starter next year or the year after that—- then please do not post in 2011 that he just still isn’t good enough and that we should have traded him back in 2009 when his value was at its peak.
by Sonic on Sep 4, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Keeping him on the roster will not prevent us from pursuing a starting QB.
Chilly has already made his move, he went for Favre. Farvre is a one-year band-aid for this team and nothing more. We will still have to have a starting QB next year, and I would rather have to choose between Sage and Tarvaris as opposed to choosing between Sage and JDB.
Even if we went out and traded for a QB (Unlikely), picked up one in free agency (again, unlikely) or traded up and drafted Bradford, McCoy or Tebow; they would still be at least a year removed from being able to bring this team to a super bowl.
Tjack and Sage are not stellar QB’s. Sage, on paper, looks like he can run the west coast offense rather well. Tarvaris has shown that he can throw the ball and scramble, and is starting to figure out how to read more than just his first and a check-down. But we do know that they know the system and with the support they have they can likely bring the team far.
Regardless of whether or not we keep Sage and Tjack or Sage and Booty, the teams attempt at securing a legitimate starting QB will not change. But keeping Sage and Tjack gives us a better option for next year should we be unable to secure said QB.
Things can happen, we could trade up in the draft only to find that the QB we want is already gone. We can make an offer on a free agent and they can turn us down. But we have both Sage and Tjack locked in for the next few years if we need them.
+1
And keeping T-Jack provides the Vikings with viable QB depth.
Booty doesn’t count as ‘depth’, he’s a project that’s deeper in the hole than T-Jack was in his first year.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
was tj better in 07 than 06?
was tj better in 08 than 07?
do you think tj will be better in 09 than 08?
if you answered yes to all three of these questions, why on earth would get rid of a guy like that? at any position?
by iseepurplepeople on Sep 4, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Well....
technically I am a slightly better cook this year than last year, because I added spaghetti to my répertoire. And last year was better than the year before that when all I could make was toast. So, I am definitely improving….
But you still wouldn’t want to hire me to cater your wedding.
by Sonic on Sep 4, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
The difference here, using that analogy, is that Tjack was already a Sous Chef when he was drafted.
You are just a guy in a kitchen wearing a “kiss the cook” apron.
Yeah--- you caught me on that one, Bjorno
.
I was exaggerating there a little bit for dramatic effect… :-)
But I meant what I said about being impressed with T-Jack’s demeanor on the sidelines while Gus was playing— he showed class. Makes it easy to like the guy on a lot of levels.
by Sonic on Sep 4, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you guys should actually keep Jackson
And if you ask iseepurple or bjorno, I have consistently argued against Jackson. Aside from the 1st preseason game, Jackson has performed very well. Sage has been pretty mediocore, and Booty has just further proved that he has a noodle for an arm, and really hasn’t made any progress.
Jackson has been keeping “dead” plays alive, and been making good plays with his arm. I think it would be dumb to let him go, because if Favre goes down this year you guys would be in trouble. Sage really won’t have any chemistry with any of the 1st stringers, and it will likely take him 3-4 games to develop that. I don’t think much needs to be said about Booty. He would be in way over his head.
Jackson at least got you 10 wins last season, and had some bright spots while doing so.
Interesting...
T-Jax has been roundly criticized for the int in the playoff game. The argument goes something like NO QB has or will ever throw such a pass. Particularly since Philadelphia has a swiss cheese defense, it muct have been intentional.
Then to my amazement, last night, against Dallas 3rd & 4th string defenders, obviously ALL will be ALL PRO’s on Dallas or other teams, Sage threw a duplicate. Narry a peep.
So the argument is sack T-Jax so we can become interception central. Favre will throw interceptions, AND has the ability to recover. Sage…not so much. Booty?
sarc/
Regards,
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
PEEP
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
;-)
.eom
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
TJ can go
he is in his 4th season…and in this last preseason game still shows the Jump pass…the guy has not developed at this point…we can trade/cut him…and yes use picks…maybe player combo to move up in the draft to take a Real QB…we may very well need to trade a pick for the following draft as well..but it is time to get one of the Top 1st round type prospects that are in next years draft imo.
And no we are not a team that MUST WIN NOW…we have a solid team and continue to build to stay that way.
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