"$12 Million For This?" Or "How Bad Have Recent Vikings QB's Been?"
by LoveHate on Sep 21, 2009 11:54 AM CDT
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PrintIt is easy to overlook Brett Favre's performance to this point in the season given all the attention being paid to the best running back in the league since Jim Brown. However, Favre's statistics don't even tell the entire story.
Lately we've become accustomed, or at least conditioned, to accepting our Viking QB's being ranked at or near the bottom in telling passing statistics (or the top in some cases: sacks, turnovers). In many respects Brett Favre is continuing this trend quite admirably (30th in total yards, 32nd in YPG and 4th in sacks taken). However, Favre leads the league in Comp. % (77.1), ranks second in QB rating (110.2) and is taking care of the ball (3 TD's/ 0 INT's) beyond realistic expections. This is completely uncharted territory for the fan base.
For a team committed to the run (for obvious reason), Brett Favre's performance is exactly what the doctor ordered. We all know there are nearly as many opinions as Norsemen regarding what the Viking's acquisition of Favre means to the teams chances of success, both short and long term. That has been and will continue to be debated...elsewhere. What I want to discuss is: whether or not what Favre is doing is worth $12 million per year? Considering Favre is being asked to do less than he has at any point in his career, and less than every qb with similar compensation is currently being asked to do. Favre is averaging 5.5 yards per pass and has seldomly passing the ball further than 10 yards in his two games with the Vikes.
The other side of it is a critique of recent Viking QB's. I have never been one to criticize any of them to harshly, but in retrospect I have to ask myself WTF? Brett Favre isn't doing much and making it look easy (as it likely should be). What the hell was wrong with the parade of QB's logging playing time the past few years? It shouldn't cost $12 mil to quarterback the Vikings, it just shouldn't!
Undoubtably we'll see more down field production as the season progesses and as necessary, but I am happier than a fat kid with cake with what Favre's performance to date foretells of the Vikings success.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Interesting angle...
But yes, it seems that the Vikings’ previous quarterbacks were actually just that inconsistent. Sure, there were flashes of greatness from some of the various QBs, but two games in a row with a passer rating over 100? Yeah, definitely not used to that.
True test will be the third game against a good 49ers’ defense. Singletary (sorry if misspelled) has got them playing hard.
Visit:
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Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Airline Pilots...
Ask a commercial airline pilot about his job, and he will probably tell you that he has a boring job, that he’s a glorified bus driver… He lines up the plane, throttles up the engines, takes off and then hits the auto pilot button, taking over to land the plane, which is not that hard under normal circumstances if you are a trained professional. The reason why a pilot gets paid well is that he needs to be there in case of an emergency. In the game situations we’ve had the last 2 weeks, there has been no need for BF to knock the auto pilot off and take control, but BF has the experience to do taht when the need arises. We all knew going into the season that BF would probably only amount to an extra win or two, but he could also account for one to two less stupid losses… I don’t think that you can make a judgement on the BF experience until February, but I think he’s worth itin many ways…
I like this analogy
If you can't laugh at yourself... Who can you laugh at?
The Packers, that’s who.
-- The almighty Manimal
MEh
49ers are 2-0 Vs. NFC West teams. We are 2-0 Vs two of the worst teams in the NFL. This really is a battle of who is for real and who is a bunch of pretenders. I like us at home to win next week.
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 21, 2009 12:07 PM CDT reply actions
Even assuming Favre ends up a bust, the 12 Mill is worth it. If you look at the spike in ticket sales after his signing. Also the sales of jersey’s and other merch.
My argument is that after everything is said and done vikings make more because they paid favre 12 mill.
I know for a fact they’ve already made back at least half of those funds just because he signed.
It’s been 2 games. Waaaay to early to start wondering whether he was worth 12 mil or not. That would be like saying that, since Jared Allen only has 1 sack so far, he definitely wasn’t worth trading for him two years ago. This sort of debate is better saved for, at least, midseason. And even then it’s iffy. Far better to look at it once the season is over and ask whether he was worth $12 million or not.
My wife is a trained dancer, and whenever we see great performers she tells me “You see how he/she makes it look like it’s easy? It isn’t easy, but making it look that way is what makes them great dancers.”
Personally, I see thing more globally than you. I don’t think Brett Favre is being paid for a specific YPA total. I think Favre is here to win games, to be a field general who makes whatever it takes to do that gets done. The last two weeks that has been: don’t make mistakes, let the higher talent level prevail. In future games that might not be the formula, but it has been so far, so … why anguish that it’s what we’re doing?
Furhtermore, Favre is being paid taht stack to keep doing that — win games — for a 19 game season, not just two weeks. As a lot of people pointed out (including Favre himself), there is a lot of uncertainty if he can go that full distance. So, in that context, what we’re doing (and not doing) on offense makes even more sense.
I know I’m in the minority on this, but I’m personally pleased with how Chldress and Bevell have managed the offense so far. I said when we signed Favre that I saw the model for this to work to be the Elway-Davis arrangment of 97-98, and I’m certainly not backing away form that now! Many fans are impatient, but the coaches are keeping the long haul, the big picture, in mind. IMO.
Again
Just trying to point out how easy it should be to quarterback the Vikings from the angle that any bum should be able to do it for the veteran minimum.
Disproving your point
In the end I think the only thing you call attention to is the fact that, apparently, it’s hard to find just “any bum” who run this team for the veteran minimum. I think you’ve caught yourself between contradictory arguments that you perceive as being reconcileable:
Argument #1: “Favre is being asked to do less than he has at any point in his career, and less than every qb with similar compensation is currently being asked to do. Brett Favre isn’t doing much and [is] making it look easy (as it likely should be).”
Yup, he does make it look easy…perhaps because he has some skill QBing. I don’t think putting up stats for the point of putting up stats is what you have in mind when you suggest he’s being asked to do less than every other similarly paid QB. He’s being paid $12 million dollars to get this team to the Superbowl. That’s it. Same as Peyton, same as Brady, same as every other highly paid QB. (And let’s be honest, if a QB is not highly paid or sought after, he’s not being counted on to lead you to a Superbowl.) Some will throw a ton, some won’t. All are expected to be leaders, to get everyone else on offense motivated and on the same page, and to do what it takes to win—be it leading a 4th quarter drive like Eli last night or make quick decisions to get the ball into playmaker’s hands timely and accurately (77% accuracy you say?).
Argument #2: “Just trying to point out how easy it should be to quarterback the Vikings from the angle that any bum should be able to do it for the veteran minimum.”
Confusing ‘low’ stats and easy looking play with the talent and ability to make it look that way is very shortsighted, as a prior commenter pointed out. It’s like asking why everyone doesn’t just draft a guy like AD, or KWill, or Jared Allen? Just get a DE who’s lanky and fast and there you go, right? Wrong. The Vikings have proved that not just any bum can QB successfully in the NFL over the last few years. Watch the tape—TJax can’t make the reads and the decisions fast enough to hit his receivers before a defender gets there. Maybe Sage could, but are you really going to put the responsibility for a Superbowl in Sage’s hands? Or how about Gus Frerotte’s hands—he’s a veteran available for the minimum?
No, at least for me, suggesting that Favre isn’t worth $12 million a year because of how seemingly mediocre his stats are and how easy he makes it look just highlights how valuable a guy who can do that is to this team. Maybe not to all teams, but certainly to this team. I just don’t think there’s another guy out there who can complete 70% of his passes this year with only single digit INTs for the season while converting first downs that’s available for the veteran minimum.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Sep 21, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
you don't understand lovehate
He ask this because he is thinking we have tjoke. tjoke have just as strong of an arm. You have to follow lovehate posting to understand him. Ok here we go. lovehate tjokew is the best. may we end it here
Not really...
Because understanding MAYNHOLUP is nigh impossible…
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
You can't read or write...
so saying someone doesn’t understand anything is laughable coming from you.
Disproving What?
Brett Favre is doing what he’s being asked to do, which is a lot less than those individuals you name. Salary and playing time aside, Favre to Vikings, is in no way similar to Brady to Pats or Manning to Colts or Giants. One would think that almost any quarterback could be successful with the current Vikings team. The post really isn’t about a cost analysis. It is about having a qb who can execute at, what is basically, an entry level. Favre, who isn’t doing anything special is making the previous qb’s look a lot worst than I ever thought they were.
The title alone should make the intent clear.
Your post says nothing about whether he's doing something special
That has to come through evaluation of the game. How many QBs would make the medium range passes for 3rd downs? How many QBs would calmly take the team down the field when they have been smacked in the mouth and haven’t scored a point for most of a half?
Comparing stat lines doesn’t mean much, especially things like sacks taken. You don’t mention anything about the pass protection. Brady looked like crap in his last game. T-Jack can play like crap. Nobody – well almost nobody – would equate the abilities of the two.
Little fun fact
After 2 weeks, our Vikes have scored the division high in points, and allowed the division low of points scored. SKOL
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 21, 2009 12:37 PM CDT reply actions
Does it really matter.........
how much he makes? I mean, it’s not like anyone of us is paying him. It is Ziggys money, he can spend it how he wants to. We should be thankful that we have an owner like him that is willing to spend the big dollars he does to make the team better.
+1
The $12M is to get a real NFL starter for the first time in a few years. That costs over $10M on average anyway, and as long as there is no opportunity cost to Favre’s signing (i.e. couldn’t sign a better CB than Cedric Griffin and stay under the cap), then it is a fair price for a fair shot at one or more playoff wins.
+ 12
It doesn’t negatively affect future cap flexibility, so it is money well spent. Not like its coming out of your pocket anyway.
Don;t worry Tjack still gets payed regardless :/
by Iceland-Viking on Sep 21, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I honestly believe that if these were TJack's statistics and this were "all" we were seeing of him, fans would be asking for his head. But, it's Favre and, as we know, he's executing a run-based offense to perfection.
by Anthony Carter on Sep 21, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions
No.
Because T Jack would miss those open rutine plays all of the time. Case closed.
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 21, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Vikings fans would gladly have taken 2-0 with these numbers rather than 0-2 and a rating below 70 last year. I’m amazed that TJ could not make these routine short throws consistently, but the truth is that he simply didn’t do it.
Oops..
The two games TJ started at the “beginning” of last season were against much more competitive teams. And, when he came on strong at the end of last year, many made the excuse that he was simply “managing” a game for a run offense that took all the pressure off the QB.
I’m simply pointing out that now we have a game “manager” who’s glorified for his modesty. Whereas TJ couldn’t catch a break, even when he was steadily holding it down. Fans saw what is here being called patience/game wisdom/veteran leadership, as an inability to produce.
by Anthony Carter on Sep 21, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree see..
+10 Anthony and not exactly below
by midnightwonder on Sep 21, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree with you...
Didn’t read down before I replied…
by Anthony Carter on Sep 21, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Disagree
Favre’s getting paid $12 million to produce against the Philly’s of the world in the playoffs—to be able to handle exotic rushes and blitz packages and still make the routine throw.
I think you probably do have a point that if this was all we were getting out of TJax we’d all be disappointed—that there is a double standard. But the truth of TJax’s career is that he couldn’t “steadily hold it down”. He’s been replaced with (and lost his starting job too) or had to compete in preseason with a veteran every year he’s been here. If he was a reliable game manager, Favre wouldn’t be here.
It all comes down to crunch time. When it’s lose or go home, what is the price that you’re willing to pay to have complete trust in your QB making the plays that need to be made?
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
I agree, for the most part, and in general feel more confident with Favre than I do with TJ. I’ve just been a bit over-Favred here and find some of it a bit nauseating, remembering only too well what it was like to be on the other side of a guy who had every excuse made for him over many bad and off performances. As someone who genuinely loves Purple, I am still not sold on this being a sure thing, and don’t feel any more confident based upon what I’ve seen that we will get as far as we’re all hoping. Of course, there’s always the possibility, as Gonzo just wrote about in his last post, that there is still an untapped playbook and fully gelled team looming on the horizon. But, today, Favre remains old, out of synch with his team, and as risky as he is accomplished. My general point was, and remains, that when TJ ran a conservative offense last year (even when he did it well), everyone was on his case for not doing more, blaming his decision making for the balls he held onto or threw away. Yet, when Favre runs a conservative offense, he’s praised for it, praised for playing within his limits, for not taking chances, praised for managing the game. I guess all this adds up to me wanting to push back a bit. In the end, I’m in for the ride. But, I still haven’t seen the evidence, and remember only too well TJ taking hits for the same thing Favre is being celebrated over. And to the post below “TJ who?”—he’s the guy that in my mind is almost sure to be a starter before the season is over.
by Anthony Carter on Sep 21, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I hear ya
And I think you might agree with me as well when I say that one thing I do appreciate about this season as well is how clearly responsibility is assigned for our success or failure. We win, kudos to Chilly and Favre. We lose, we know exactly where to look. Of course I hope we win, but I don’t want to lose out on Frazier if the right choice by the end of the season is to let go of Chilly.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
"Every excuse made for him"
That’s the mythology of the haters. Right now, the Karen Rodgers cult, who are also Favre haters, are in full excuse mode saying that he doesn’t have the protection and that his receivers are dropping passes and that the coach calls a poor game.
You sound like you want him to fail. You say you haven’t seen any evidence. If you keep moving the level that’s considered success higher, then you can howl about what a bum he is if he doesn’t light up team X in some big game.
...glorified for his modesty?
No. Favre is glorified for taking teams (sometimes less talented than this one) into the playoffs, winning playoff games, and winning a Super Bowl. He is glorified for his iron man streak (and for usually performing well despite playing through injuries which would sideline others). Some glorify him for being a “gunslinger” although I am not in that camp.
What is modest about back-to-back 100+ ratings, particularly when at least one is vs. a tough secondary? Favre’s rating has been 100+ in the last 5 games he has played with a healthy biceps tendon. You’d have to go back to weeks 10-13 of 2007 to find something remotely close to that for TJ, only half of which are rated at 100+ and only 2 of those games vs. decent secondaries. Favre also completed 70+% of his passes in 4 of the first 8 games of 2008. Anyone who thinks that TJ has ever played as well as Favre has in the past 18 NFL games is simply incorrect.
He's always been pretty self-effacing and praised his teammates a lot
Basically the opposite of a diva. Probably a lot of the discussion of his “modesty” is because the noise that comes from the haters.
Yeah, I agree with you about the diva accusation. In fact, at several points since our interest in him began, I’ve pointed to his very mature and respectable handling of the drama that inevitably surrounds him. By “modesty” I was meaning to highlight all the latest buzz about BFF “playing within his limits.” I’m not a hater (as you mention above), just trying to find a reasonable voice for what’s working and not working so far. Of course, my greatest hope is that BFF continues to improve, and I think it’s reasonable to think that he will. I also think it’s realistic to appraise his play thus far as fair to average, and believe that a less “mythologized” (I like your word) quarterback (like Tavaris) wouldn’t be given half the space BFF has been given to grow into his form.
by Anthony Carter on Sep 22, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Case closed I agree. TJack with a 77% completion percentage? Not happening. Tjack converting on 3rd down? Not happening. Tjack 3 TD’s and 0 INT’s through 2 games? Not happening.
What? against arguably the best pass defense in the NFL? BFF still hasn't shown us he can "manage" against even a moderately good defense.
by Anthony Carter on Sep 21, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say he's managed fine.
His completion percentage was fairly spectacular, and his passer rating was fantastic as well. Both were wins. Why complain?
That’s what Brett Favre is for the Vikings: a game manager. Just one that’s (hopefully) good enough to make quick throws when under pressure. So far, the dump offs have worked.
Visit:
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Skol Vikings!
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Look it up
Brett Favre played exceptionally well vs. NWE and TEN, two of the best defenses in the AFC last year, in weeks 10 and 11. Those were the last 2 games he played with a healthy biceps tendon last year (which is supposedly healed now).
Or one could look at Favre’s rating from 2008 and compare it to TJ’s career rating and also conclude that Favre is and has been more successful.
What would it take for you to be more impressed with Favre than what you imagine that TJ could do?
New England's defense
Was a touch above mediocre last year, not one of the best in the AFC.
http://vikingsmashfootball.wordpress.com/
Good point
but if you take away the 2 games vs. Favre, NWE becomes an above-average pass defense. I did misspeak when I said that they were one of the best D’s, and should have said one of the best teams in the AFC last year (who also hurt their D numbers by playing a lot of prevents with leads late in games).
Tavaris who? Check back in later, you’ll see…
It’s remains a relevant conversation to this team.
by Anthony Carter on Sep 23, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
The biggest difference....
Is the fact that Favre finds ways to complete 3rd downs and keep drives going… his field vision at this early stage in developing chemistry with the receivers is better than Jackson ever had over the years
Not really.
Our third down completion percentage is still sub 50%
When you go to somebody's house, you don't crap on their floor. Being a fan of one team does NOT give you license to be a dick to fans of another.
Corollary: When people are visiting your house and behaving themselves, them being a fan of a different team is NOT a reason for you to piss in their beer.
by Robert Rence on Sep 21, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd take those numbers from anyone
Especially the 0 INT part.
by Eric J. Thompson on Sep 21, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Look, I’ll take it, too. No doubt. And think we have a lot of upside (still). I’m just trying to point to what I believe is a contradiction. When played dump and dink offense under TJ it was an outcry. Anyone who’s been on this site for a couple of years can attest to the number of times folks commented on an uninventive playbook, a loaded up box, our depressing inability to strike deep. Much of that was true even. And now we’re seeing the exact same thing (against two horrible defenses, mind you) and the same crap is being extolled as game savvy and veteran leadership.
by Anthony Carter on Sep 21, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Offensive DVOA
2008: -5.9%
2009: 25.3%
TJax career vs. Detroit, 2 wins, 1 loss:
35 of 67 (52.24%) for 475 yards, 3 TDs and 5 INTs.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Pardon my ignorance, but what's DVOA?
Brett Favre is a Viking, and John Smoltz is a Cardinal. The Cubs and Packers still suck. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
double va.....
oh wait, that’s DVDA…..
Nevermind.
If you can't laugh at yourself... Who can you laugh at?
The Packers, that’s who.
-- The almighty Manimal
Defensive-adjusted value over average
Basically Football-Outsiders.com looks at every play and develops a baseline result that should be the expected outcome of the play. (They factor in a bunch of crap, including schedule, injuries, etc etc. in coming up with this baseline). Then they compare the results of a given play with this baseline, and that’s the DVOA. So on the whole, our offense is producing 25% better than what a prototypically average NFL offense would be doing against the level of competition we’ve played against.
I think that’s DVOA in a nutshell. I might be wrong, and others can correct me if I am, but that’s the basic intent of the stat—how much better or worse are you doing, per play, than NFL average?
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
The difference is consistency. Sure TJax got blamed for being a game manager, but while that didn’t bother me, being a bad game manager did. A game manager must be able to throw slants, curls, swing passes accurately. TJax has the arm strength, but he missed too many open (and short) throws. Favre so far is completing those throws which opens up the possibility of YAC.
Tarvaris also came in, IMO, as a “raw” project with a ton of upside. Yet, to the average Purple fan, his upside never seemed to count as much as the upside we’re all SO eager to watch develop this season.
by Anthony Carter on Sep 24, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
+10 Anthony
Because those other QBs weren’t “proven” we asked more and expected more. the were expected to make plays. We have actually told BF not to try and make plays.
Its like I tell my teenage son: If you take a 10 to the prom you’d settle for kiss and maybe second base. But if you paid and took a 5 or 6 to the prom you would expect her to be putting out. Its the natuer of popularity.
Lets not kid ourselves BF knows his arm isn’t as strong as it used to be to force those throws in there. He’s setttling down and so are we as fans.
By your logic, the Vikings expected too much out of Troy Williamson and spent a bunch of money on BB and didn’t expect as much out of him.
BF has definitely been firing it into his receivers’ bread baskets, even on these shorter throws. They would be INTs very often were it Frerotte or TJ or Kelly Holcomb trying the same thing.
Jackson has just as strong of an arm as Favre
He lacks the ability to make good pre-snap reads and doesn’t have the command of the huddle that he should. Those are the two things Favre adds over Jackson, who by being named back-up showed he would have narrowly won the battle with Rosenfels. I hope Jackson is improving in these areas, because in a year or two I expect he will be the starting QB again.
Tarvaris Jackson
…is missing more than the command of the huddle. You forgot to mention his lack of accuracy in the short to intermediate throws which are the bread and butter of this offense. THAT is what he would be expected to improve on while competing seriously for the starting job against anyone. For whatever reason, he just doesn’t make the reads quickly enough or show the same type of touch and accuracy on the shorter throws that he has on a few of his better deep ones.
Not exactly
I see that point was a little vague. Let me reiterate.
I was trying to demonstrate that because BF has “been there done that so to speak”, we aren’t expecting to much from him because we know what he can do. So him giving us the basics isn’t driving us completely crazy.
Despite our short comings on the offensive line, he has taken 7 sacks. whether it is because our WRs aren’t open or defenses just beat us that bad. Had it been a different QB would we be as calm. Saying he made the right decision no one was open.
BF has a ring already and as everyone believes will be a first ballot HOFer, he doesn’t need to fight to prove himself worthy. Heck we courted and begged him to play for us. No rookie or unproven QB would succeed in our situation.
Just a thought.
by midnightwonder on Sep 21, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Regarding the 7 sacks, you still have it wrong. TJ was sacked once vs. GB in last year’s opener and 2x vs. the Colts the following week. He was benched because the rest of his performance (including a similar Y/A less than 5.4 but with a worse completion%) was terrible despite receiving twice as much protection. Favre is being sacked at a rate that is only familiar to David Carr and a handful of the most unfortunate QBs to start too many games for terrible teams, and he’s still posting 100+ ratings! That’s more than the basics (which includes doing enough to help the team win in my book).
But go on believing that there is some sort of conspiracy working against Tarvaris Jackson. Yeah, the coach that will be held accountable for wasting 2 draft picks on him all of a sudden chose to put his team in the hands of worse QBs because he doesn’t really want to win as much as he could or seem like the genius he really could be if TJ were really up to the task. Obviously, no amount of facts have stopped you yet, so no amount of facts or reasonable if/then statements could convince you otherwise now or ever.
Of course no unproven or rookie QB would be courted like that because there would be no established reason to do so. No rational person would misunderstand that or put that cart before the horse, would you?
I believe that Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco would have succeeded where TJ failed last year, and that Marc Sanchez would be enjoying even more success as a Viking this year. I believe that Sage could have outproduced whatever TJ would have done in these past 2 games. It’s all speculative on my part, but so is saying that NOBODY would succeed as the Vikings’ QB other than Favre. With Favre, there are fewer excuses for everyone else, if anything.
You tell your teenaged son that??
Aren’t there some better metaphors that we can use to teach our children that don’t objectify women so terribly??
by ctowner35 on Sep 21, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course there are
But it wasnt meant to objectify women
by midnightwonder on Sep 21, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Answer to LoveHate
No this is not worth $12 mill. We just paid more money for the same type of car we had 3 yrs ago in Brad.
As I said before in posts “this is a true testatment to Chili’s coaching ability” We have had, I think 5 or 6 different QBs in his tenure so far and it all looks the same to me.
Shut up
The other side of it is a critique of recent Viking QB’s. I have never been one to criticize any of them to harshly, but in retrospect I have to ask myself WTF? Brett Favre isn’t doing much and making it look easy (as it likely should be). What the hell was wrong with the parade of QB’s logging playing time the past few years? It shouldn’t cost $12 mil to quarterback the Vikings, it just shouldn’t.
If tjoke got us 2-0 you would have a hard on by now. stop your crying. He make the important play when he has to. That is something i can not say for your boy tjoke. This is a new team. It will get better. so if you want to cry go to your room. we are 2-0. we are getting better. Our receiver is running better route. The receiver is learning more. If you compare this to last year we are 0-2. To answer your question yes this is worth 12mil. You are a joke just like tjoke.
Uh...
He was saying how bad the previous QBs have been, not saying Favre sucks.
What the hell was wrong with the parade of QB’s logging playing time the past few years?
You need to relax.
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Dude chill
I’m not bashing my team or BF I just looking at our situation openly. I’m enjoying the ride and hope for the big 1.
Look at the question and take your emotions out of it. If BF doesn’t stay after this year then what? Are we going to have to scour the old fokes home of the FA market looking for another QB who isn’t afraid to change plays and take sacks.
Teams with good QBs had 1 thing over us until this year. The staff was not afraid to let the QB yake the reigns and fall if need be. Would we be any different with Big Ben, Sanchez or Rivers.
Are we going to be willing to pay $18mil if need be? What if BF decides to hold out god forbid what do we do?
by midnightwonder on Sep 21, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
With or without Favre in 2010
I think the Vikings will seriously consider drafting a QB again…or ponying up for an under-30 veteran QB with some good starting experience.
OR...
have good QBs looking at us and thinking… HEY!
I believe the 'push off' cost us 'our' SuperBowl...
I believe you 'go for the win'... instead of 'taking a knee'...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Sep 22, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just glad
that this year, our biggest gripe is worrying about Favre’s downfield ability. Last year we were worried if T Jack could even read a D on a simple check down! Gotta love vikes fans…averaging 30.5 points per game and giving up 16.5 points per game and we are bitching thta our run D is soft so far and our O isn’t explosive enough. Ladies and Gents- these are GREAT problems to worry about!
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 21, 2009 1:34 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Who really needs to worry is....
Aaron Rogers, he may be out for the season before Favre at the rate Rogers is taking sacks. Imagine what the Vikes will do if they string together 2 consecutive 2nd half like performances… it shall come as the season progresses
"if they string together 2 consecutive 2nd half like performances"
No one would touch us. Not a single team.
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 21, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
BTW
If we were a team that relied on the deep ball to win we’d be Green Bay. I don’t want to be Green Bay. We inforce our will upon teams and play lights out defense. Look for a lot more of ball controll wins. Besides..would you rather score in 1 minute and keep our D on the field constantly, or score in 8 minutes and then send out a bunch of savage wild men to destroy the opposing team’s comeback. We’ve seen that in 2 straight games. Don’t give me that “but its the Lions and Browns” crap, these are still elite athletes getting paid millions for their services we are beating.
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 21, 2009 1:39 PM CDT reply actions
BTW #2
So far I can only think of 1 or 2 dumps to Nafu Tahi. THANK GOD!
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 21, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Count the 3 TEs formations!
Tahi is not in the game nearly as often. The Vikes are lining up with 3 Tight Ends or 2 Tight Ends and 2 WRs instead.
Hopefully, this means Bevell and Chilly have learned and are changing their approach.
TiggerSr
they trust the QB
I believe the 'push off' cost us 'our' SuperBowl...
I believe you 'go for the win'... instead of 'taking a knee'...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Sep 22, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Good Point
Remember how some games would go with Daunte and Randy? We score too quickly with the deep ball….and then Favre (and others) led a 2-3 minute game ending drive. I love watching those long, punishing drives on offense and seeing the defense explode with energy when they’re needed.
JaMarcus Russell
…is an elite athlete making millions, and I’m glad he’s not a Viking. (I’m sure he’d be better on this team than the Raiders, but probably not that much better.)
The Vikes will be tested for real in week 6…or earlier if they can’t win their first 5 games.
Freedom isn't free
No there is a hefty f$cking fee, and if you don’t chip in your buck-o-five’ who will?
by Jepp The Viking on Sep 21, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Where were you...
When they built that Ladder to Heaven?
Visit:
http://www.vikingvigil.com
Skol Vikings!
Woot Woot!
Depends on what you think Favre brings to the table
Because it’s not just numbers for me. Even though I doubt TJ could put up a 77% completion rate, he can be a good game manager, but bringing in Favre was more the unquantifiable intangibles that no one, and I mean no one, save for maybe Manning or Tom Brady, could bring: Confidence.
There’s a big difference in thinking you’re good and knowing you’re good, and the first two weeks are pretty are pretty indicative of that. When TJ or Gus or Brad or Brooks Bollinger were the QB, and the Vikings got behind early, there was legitimate doubt as to whether or not the Vikings could come back. And if TJ or Sage had been calling the shots, 10-0 could have just as easily become 13-0 or 17-0 as opposed to 10-7. WIth them, there was the 600 pound gorilla: Yeah, there’s talent there, but can our guy bring us down the field and get us back in this game?
With Favre, there’s not that lingering doubt of ‘uh oh’. Instead, there’s a feeling of ’don’t worry, we’ll be okay.’
And for me, that’s definitely worth $12 million/yr.
Brett Favre is a Viking, and John Smoltz is a Cardinal. The Cubs and Packers still suck. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Intangibles
That is the one thing you won’t find on any stat sheet and you’re right about the confidence level. The Vikes are down 10 points just before the half and it’s like, “ok guys, settle down, we’re going down the field for a score” and it happened. That’s real leadership, something the team has been missing at quarterback the last few years.
Towards the end of the second quarter there was a shot of Favre on the side-line, standing there as he watched the game and he glanced aside to speak with someone. What caught my attention was that he was relaxed and confident, he smiled as he spoke. He wasn’t freaked out by being down by 10 points, or by anything the Lions had done up to that point. No high-strung nervousness, no worry in his expression. That sort of thing can communicate itself to the whole team, and it only comes with experience.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
To clarify something
WE aren’t paying $12M, whether it’s too much or too little. The Vikings’ QB’s salary is not paid with tax dollars, although some seem to think so.
$12M for Brett Favre is slightly better than however good or bad as it was last year since it didn’t change after inflation.
Favre is Priceless!!!
The media attention, the fan base frenzy, the instant marketing boom, the experience, the interceptions (we’re still waiting for one), the consecutive starts, the bionic arm, the wrangler jeans and sears tv commercials etc… etc… you can hate it, or get in and ride the roller coaster.
If Favre doesn’t keep getting hit like Aaron Rogers, he’ll get in sync with this offense and Peterson will run wild! The stars may align and if not, what the hell at least we have the best talent available on this roster THIS year because the Vikings aren’t getting any younger!
We pay him $12 million because...
Because we’re not playing fantasy football or Madden.
Because when he walks up under center, he’s the coolest, calmest person on the field – maybe in the whole stadium, and because he’s even moreso that way when the game is on the line.
Because he sees the field and reads defenses as well as, if not better than, anybody in the game.
Because he always looks off defenders and checks multiple receivers (if necessary), which is part of what makes some of his comletions look like such ‘easy’ completions: he made it that way or found the easy one or both.
Because he knows how to get the ball in the end zone from the red zone.
Because he still has a gun. Take a look at the TD pass to Shiancoe; really look at it. It is a near instantaneous decision, fired back across his body and he is not set. That was all arm. That’s what he’s always been able to do and that is one thing he continues to be able to do.
And lastly, because what he brings is contagious. Do you want the rest of your offense catching whatever it is that Favre has or would you rather they catch whatever it is that Jackson has?
Because this isn’t fantasy football or Madden.
by Migrant lurker on Sep 21, 2009 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Bingo!
I believe the 'push off' cost us 'our' SuperBowl...
I believe you 'go for the win'... instead of 'taking a knee'...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Sep 22, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
TJack Lovers
U all need to take a chill pill…TJack is terrible at reading defenses…I have hated Favre all his career, but he is waaay better than TJack. Favre is taking what opponets defense is giving him..Reason Tjack was booed, is, even with taking what defenses gave him, he still screwed up and choked in the playoff game last yr..Favre is not perfect, but HELL of alot better than TJack….CASE CLOSED…
Favre is better than Tjack, yes.
But we are still coached by Brad Childress. The same head coach who did not recognize the changes made by the Eagles in said playoff game and adjust the playcalling to compensate.
Give me ANY QB in the league, and give them less than 2 seconds to throw the ball with no help from the coaching staff, and I’ll give you a QB that chokes in a playoff game.
Seriously?
Are we having this discussion? Did anyone else not see all of the 5-10 yards passes that TJ threw into his receivers feet? A lot of them, he does and can turn it up and get things done, but just on that fact alone i would have to say Favre is a better option. Sadly to say for TJ that isn’t the only then Favre has over him, he also has the ability to play call at the line, composure, experience winning, and the will to win no matter how bad it looks. TJ has youth, quick legs and a strong (inaccurate) arm. There is really no comparison.
Put this type of thread to rest now?
I believe in week 3 Mr. Favre has done enough to disprove naysayers. Noone does 2 minute drills under pressure quite like that. Ask his teammates if they were confident they’d get it done with him at the helm. They ‘d likely ask you why you weren’t.
Give him a little more protection, and you may want to vote him a raise. He’s in the top 10 for passer rating and completion percentage. He’s commited to the team enough to run 40 yards after completing a pass, to throw a block. He’s yet to ‘lose’ a game for the Vikes.
I say… Pay the man.
The Wilf's must think...
that drive pretty much made their $12M investment!
I believe the 'push off' cost us 'our' SuperBowl...
I believe you 'go for the win'... instead of 'taking a knee'...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Sep 27, 2009 10:24 PM CDT reply actions
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