Turning The Page
by Ted Glover on Jan 26, 2010 9:00 AM CST
in Vikings
98 comments
Well, the immediate, knee-jerk reaction on the latest in a long line of devastating Vikings losses ranged from poetically angry, to frustratingly analytical, to downright maudlin. They were all accurate, and came from the entire emotional spectrum of Viking fandom, which is bigger than the light spectrum right now. Look, we’re Vikings fans. We embrace the suck better than any other fan base in the NFL, except maybe Detroit, which is French for ‘Football Wasteland’. We're number one! Woo!! What we haven’t really done is figure out what needs to happen in the off season so we can stare into the abyss of another roller coaster of a season. One that either ends in a Super Bowl championship, or me disabling the air bags on my car and driving into a big ass oak tree at 107 miles an hour. Yes, it’s really come to that, and there’s not one of you out there who wouldn’t hop into the passengers seat if this happens again next year. So if you care to look past the jump, let’s look at what I think are several key questions and see how they might be answered.
1. Will he or won’t he?
The return or retirement of Brett Favre will largely determine Minnesota's chances for 2010. My gut tells me that he will retire; he took a pounding from the Saints, and he has to be emotionally drained. The 2009 season was a perfect storm of environment, schedule, and talent on the roster, and was really one of those special moments in time that had that feeling of destiny. Oh, wait, nevermind. It’s the Vikings, also known as the John Edwards Bastard Love Child of Destiny. When you look at the 2010 schedule, five of eight road opponents are outdoors, and all of those are northern, cold-climate teams. That means there’s a good chance that there will be two or three late season games outdoors, against quality opponents like Philly, New England, the Jets, and Bears. There is also a rematch in New Orleans, and home games against Dallas, Arizona, and the Giants. It’s a brutal schedule, with tough defenses that physically pound their opponents. 12-4 record aside, the Vikings did have an easy schedule, but that won’t be the case next season.
But maybe, just maybe, once he’s away for awhile, and the injuries heal, that fire will light in the belly, and he’ll give it one more go. He’s got a rapport with his young receivers, a great running game, and a good, if slightly over-rated, offensive line. Brett Lorenzo Favre, love him or hate him, had arguably the most remarkable season any quarterback ever had in the NFL when you take into consideration his age and the circumstances surrounding his arrival in Minnesota, and it will be very tempting to give it one more shot. It was a memorable ride, Brett. Thank you, because it was worth it, kick to the junk and all.
Oh, and Vikings fans out there: no bitching allowed once the waffling and speculation begins. It was part of the deal. We dished it out for years to our Packer friends, be prepared to take it.
For the record, I want him to come back. It was a lot more fun than it was agonizing.
2. What should the draft strategy be?
I have to say I am more than willing to take the ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ strategy here. Regardless of what the needs are heading into the draft, Minnesota takes a back seat to no one when evaluating draft results since 2006. That said, there are needs, among them defensive line, defensive backfield, and probably a quarterback. Whether Favre retires or not doesn’t matter in the sense the Vikings will still need a long term answer at quarterback, and I do not favor going after a veteran like Donovan McNabb, so answering the question on draft day seems like the best solution. It’s tough to say whether or not Tarvaris Jackson is the answer, but if he isn’t, then QB is something that must be addressed in the draft. I know the name Tim Tebow garners a lot of controversy, but if the Vikings go in the QB direction, I say roll the dice and go after Tebow. You can teach a kid to throw, but you can’t teach charisma, leadership, and heart. Follow that up with defensive backs, because the Vikings were as bad in pass coverage as they were good in run defense.
Currently, the most important unrestricted free agents are Benny Sapp, Jimmy Kennedy, and Chester Taylor. With Cedric Griffin’s knee injury in the NFC Championship, signing Benny Sapp jumps to the top of the ‘to do’ list. With Pat Williams 50-50 on retiring, Jimmy Kennedy becomes a pretty important re-signing, and Adrian Peterson’s sudden inability to hold on to the football, (a pretty important pre-requisite for a running back) Chester Taylor’s re-signing might be the most important of all three, but probably the most difficult. Taylor signed with Minnesota to be a feature back, got to be one for one year, and then the Vikings drafted Peterson. Taylor has adapted well in his new role as a third down, change of pace back, but if he gets an opportunity to be a feature back, I wouldn’t be surprised if he took it. Kennedy, a former first rounder who failed to live up to his draft status, has had a career year in a backup role, and it seems he has found a home in Minnesota. Right now, all three of these guys are pretty important to the 2010 team, and re-signing all of them needs to be a high priority.
4. Can You Bounce Back From an OT Loss in the NFC Championship?
I know we’re about as anguished as can be, yet we didn’t throw a block, complete a pass, or make a tackle. Now imagine being a member of the team. It’s easy to say that they’re professional athletes and they get paid a lot of money to ‘get over it’ and focus on next season. There’s been a fairly significant ‘hangover’ of sorts for teams that advance as far as the NFC championship, and teams like Seattle, Chicago, and Carolina have had a difficult time climbing back to the mountain top. That said, teams like Arizona, the Giants, and Indianapolis have been able to bounce back and find success. Can the Vikings do it? I wish I had an answer. I say yes, if Favre comes back. They’d be a veteran team with a veteran quarterback, with a lot of talent up and down the roster.
And if Favre does retire for good? Well, I'm going to go for a ride in my car. Passenger seat's open if anybody wants to tag along.
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Favre will be back. I’m no insider, but I believe once he recovers from the pounding he took, he will evaluate and realize he still has it.
This team has the pieces to win a SB, and if they draft well, they could even be better next year. If Brett comes back, I don’t think a hangover or cold weather games will prevent them from having another shot. The “Favre can’t play in the cold” is a fraud because he can still play outside in the cold. If he comes back, I would feel very confident in Minn chances.
I think you're right...
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 26, 2010 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
+4
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 27, 2010 7:09 AM CST up reply actions
Drafting a QB
Nice article. We all are getting on with our football fan lives.
At our #30 draft position I see several possibilities although each one might be a reach. Its hard to imagine any of these being around for the 62nd pick but one never knows. Each has good points and bad points. If you don’t have issues you don’t drop to #30.
Tebow- Comes from a shotgun style offense, bad throwing motion, Fabulous leadership
Snead- Had a average senior year. All the tools, accuracy issues
McCoy- weak arm,extreme accuracy, smart
Pike- Average arm, comes from shotgun style offense
Any of these QB’s might be a “franchise QB”. By the same token few ( less than 10%) “franchise QBs” are rated this low and go on to become great. We have to trust in our coaching staff. I’m sure they recognize the issues at hand.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
Quarterbacks
The Vikings are not in a position to put this team in the hands of a rookie. I don’t buy into the whole “win now” theory but I definitely don’t think we can throw away 1-3 years on a rookie project that would have a low success rate at best.
Our options, as I see them, are to trade for a veteran, trade up or go with Tarvaris Jackson (who, like it or not, has shown significant improvement every year). Since trading significant resources for either of the first two would represent a large investment in a non-Favre led team, I don’t see us doing that (that’s pretty much how he left the Jets and the Packers). My money is on drafting a QB in the 6th or 7th round to develop behind Jackson and Rosenfels. If Favre comes back, it’s an easy cut. If not, we have someone to develop.
quarterbacks this year are not great
None of the quarterbacks are worth drafting in the first round this year.
Wow, thats bold but in your fragile state ( big loss mentality) I will let it pass
But I will say that if Bradford or Clausen make it past the tenth choice I will be shocked. If they make it to us and we don’t take them I will personally shoot Mr. Spielman ( and I am a nice guy).
I would not hesitate to complain if the staff decided to reach for Tebow, Snead, or McCoy, or PIke. Theyhave been through this process with T-Jack, Thigpen, and Booty. If they don’t know what to look for by now then God bless us everyone. Because we are going to need it
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Jan 26, 2010 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
great post
as always. This was my first year as a Vikes fan. Prior, Redskins (8 years), Packers (8 years), Jets (1 year). Vikings fans are the best fans of all and this site is the best of the bloggers/forums. Redskins fans are pretty damn awesome considering what they have had to deal with….which was more than I could deal with so I left to follow the Pack and went to Lambeau twice. I now hold the Packers fans in the lowest of esteem and their management as despicable for how they handled the Favre “transition.” It’s not THAT they let him go, it how they did it.
And now another sign that Vikings fans are more intelligent life forms than Packers fans. Favre threw a pass that was a contributing factor to the loss in playoffs. You all think he played like a warrior and realize you wouldn’t have gotten to the playoffs without him and that yeah, there were a whole host of screwups that contributed to that loss. Packers fans absolutely never got over Favre’s interception in OT against Giants. I must have heard a dozen people say it was like Favre ripped open their chests and tore out their hearts. Well any person that can accuse ONE PLAYER ON ONE SINGLE PLAY of being responsible for a loss is one stupid sports fan. It’s a team effort. As I’ve said before if any one player was responsible for loss to Giants it was MacKenzie getting burned 16 times by Plaxico.
So as a died-in-the wool Favre lover hats off to all you Vikes fans and to Brad Childress. I hope he comes back too, but if he doesn’t you’all have a fan for life.
+1
For this:
"Well any person that can accuse ONE PLAYER ON ONE SINGLE PLAY of being responsible for a loss is one stupid sports fan."
But what can you expect, really? Many Green Bay "fans" have been more focused on Minnesota than they have been on their own team since about mid-August.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Jan 26, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
Oh Cmon
I respect you Vikings fans on this site. You guys are passionate, devoted, and obviously love your team. For the amount of heartbreak you guys have endured in your history, it’s great you still have a large cult-like following of this team.
That being said, I just hate this post with a passion.
For all you Vikings fans that are saying Favre wasn’t solely to blame for the loss, good for you. He definitely wasn’t. But you haven’t endured the long 11 years of playoff funk that Favre had put on our Packers. He could never dial it down in the playoffs and it ultimately cost him and our team multiple Super Bowls (IMO). The regular season success was always awesome with him at the helm, but he continually played mistake-prone football in the playoffs. The OT INT in 2007 was the last straw for many Packer fans, including myself. I still defended him after that game, but I finally realized how flawed he is when he starts playing playoff football. I still got over it, like many of my other Packer fans. It just was seen by many as a pattern that seemed to never go away. I still wanted him back, but the fiasco of that offseason turned me to the side of Packers management. And, oh, were they right.
I don’t blame you for feeling this way, however. We defended him and defended him as Packer fans for all those years (BTW lorenzo, McKenzie wasn’t even on our team in 2007. It was Al Harris – good insight from a former “fan”). We did the exact same thing you Vikings fans are doing now. Other people to blame, etc., etc. Of course other players deserved some of the blame for the game in 2007. But Brett still made the worst play at the worst possible time. The guy is an amazing talent, but some throws late in his career were just pathetic and stupid mental mistakes a QB cannot make in the playoffs.
The truth is that, yes, if the Vikings had not fumbled 6 times, Favre wouldn’t even had been in that situation and you guys would be heading to the Super Bowl. However, since he was put in that situation, he, as a hall-of-fame QB, still has to make a much better play there. He made the worst mistake out of any player at the worst possible time in the game, again. That’s also the truth.
Gonzo, if you want to be truthful about who Brett the player is, go back to your posts on the guy when he was a member of the Packers. It’s somewhere in between then and now.
I want to clarify
I meant the post by lorenzo4.
Please also never say you’re a “fan” of a team when you just follow one player. Of course you’ll side with the player even if he’s as much to blame for the situation as management was. I don’t mind Favre fans, but them bashing the Packers is getting tiresome.
fine...
than YOU as a Packer fan (and me as an ex-Packer fan) must admit that Rodgers SOLELY lost your wildcard against AZ a few weeks ago.
funny how some Packer fans and the anti-Favre fans yell that Favre is a selfish, egotistical diva and that there’s no I in TEAM…then they turn around and blame the “I” for the NFC Championship in 2007. can’t have it both ways wils0646. you win as a team and lose as a team.
worst play at the worst time?? so were the 5 fumbles. 2 of those, at the very least, could have netted 2 FGs. so was the 12 man in the box call. i’m in no way saying Brett didn’t make a crappy pass. he did. but 10 times he makes that play during the season and it’s successful. you live and die with Brett (as Packer fans said). you live and die with him during the regular season and the playoffs. just like you live and die with the rest of the team. Harvin hadn’t fumbled in college or in the NFL. he fumbles “at the worst possible time”…etc.
FYI – i’m a fan of Brett’s and always have been. i’ll follow the Vikes next year with or without Brett. does that make me a fan of the team? :) and Packer fans bashing Favre is ALSO getting tiring. :)
you say you can’t blame him solely but then you get into all the negatives about his pass. the team gave that game away – not just Favre. period.
I didn't blame Brett solely for the loss
He just made the worst mistake at the worst time. He should shoulder some blame for that. Brett had as much to do with the loss as the other players who fumbled.
You say he makes that play 10 times during the season. Great. He just doesn’t do that well in the playoffs anymore. For whatever reason (coaching, patience, mentally drained, emotions not in check) he cannot dial himself down.
never said Brett shouldn't shoulder some of the blame...
…cause it’s a TEAM. my point is that there are those who say that – yet they come back to Brett’s mistake. the game is 60 minutes long. not one play.
Did you even read his post? Your agenda is also old…if you are going to make accusations toward someone, make sure they actually said what you are accusing them. You also might want to take it up with Paul Allen who’s dedicated almost his entire show today about how Favre shouldn’t have done what he did.
I by no means think Favre is solely to blame and I haven’t seen anyone come in here saying that is the case…you are drawing incorrect conclusions.
So wouldn’t you be classified though as a Brett-lover (to combat the “anti-Favre” fans) who think he can do no wrong? Can you admit that it was a terrible, regrettable pass, just like the 2007 NFC Championship game was?
I’d lke to hear your actual argument on how Rodgers solely lost the game…since its clear that your justification is based off of in ill-conceived point that people are soley blaming Favre which just isn’t the case. Drop it, its a terrible argument.
let me repeat myself...
i understand perfectly well what wils0646 was saying and i agreed for the most part. but he’s a Packer fan and i’m sorry but most Packer fans i know (and i live in WI) are tainted toward Favre. maybe wils0646 isn’t, but he didn’t hesitate and discussing how Packer fans had to “put up” with Favre and i’m simply saying that Favre is equally responsible for the loss Sunday as is the team.
i thought i also mentioned that i DIDN’T believe Rodgers lost the game solely. i was simply using the logic of ant-Favre fans who say the the 2007 NFC Champ. game loss was Favre’s fault. and they DO say that. and if that’s the logic they’re going to rely on then those same people would have to say that the Pack loss to AZ was Rodger’s fault alone.
and yeah, i’m a Favre fan. but i’ll continue to follow the Vikes next year with or without Favre because i’ve become a Viking fan as well.
Go with your best option
and Favre was the best option the Vikings had at QB. I do not believe T-Jack would have gotten us to the NFC championship, so this season I would rather go one play away from the SB with Favre instead of one INT away from a Wild Card victory.
I don't get it
So Packer fans thought that the team around Favre any of those years was good enough to win a Super Bowl? I don’t see it. Favre made those years.. not the team around him.
It is so hilarious
that Vikings fans are now the Favre apologists. Sad, sorta. But also funny.
I dont see how “they wouldn’t have been there without him” is a good justification for the INT. Sure, you can never blame one guy for an entire loss. Sometimes you can put a good deal of the blame on one guy, in extreme cases. But the mistakes were behind us and us still had a chance to win. And Favre, the hall o’ famer that he is, can’t make the easiest play in the world? Berrian open on the sideline, nobody in front of him…an entire sideline to throw the ball away…anything!
I just don’t understand how one guy can have all of his mistakes ignored and wiped clean. Favre has made probably five of the ten stupidest plays I have ever seen in my life. But since he “plays like a kid” and is “having so much fun out there” everybody laughs about it and then focuses only on the good things he does.
Remember when we crushed the Packers in Green Bay in that wildcard game? There is a play from that game that I will never forget, and it probably embodies everything that is wrong with Brett Favre. You know the one…end of the first half, Packers with a chance to get back into the game with either a field goal or touchdown…Favre rolls right, has a few yards in front of him to possibly run for a first down…then he crosses the line of scrimmage, runs a couple yards, pulls up when he sees that a huge hit is coming, and lamely underhands a ball into the endzone. Penalty, Packers are forced to kick a field goal, which is missed. Favre threw four INTs in that game. Joe Buck and Troy Aikman LAUGHED. They talked about how much joy he plays with.
Favre ran 10 yards over the line against Cincinnati and still threw the ball. Favre can’t stop throwing INTs at the worst times. But at least he has every stat in the world. At least he wins a lot of regular season games. At least he is old and makes everybody feel good about the world, because, hey, look at the old warrior, out there gunslingin’ and having a great time and yukking it up with kids half his age. What a bunch of crap.
I'm not sure what direction you're going?
Are you asking Favre to publicly apologize for losing the game?
Are you suggesting that Favre should have been pulled from the game in the final 2:00 because he has made the five stupidest plays in the world?
Are you suggesting that the five Viking fumbles in the game had no impact on the score?
Favre’s interception at the end of the the game stings a lot, but it has an equal impact on the game as Peterson’s fumble before halftime and Harvin’s fumble on the 20. Favre should sholder some blame, but these other mistakes cannot be overlooked. I can’t blame Gary Anderson for the loss in 98 because there were other mistakes made before the missed field goal.
I'm not sure either
I’m not suggesting any of those things. I’m suggesting that when we signed Favre, we basically signed away a chance at the Super Bowl. And that is fine, because by not signing Favre and sticking with Jackson and/or Rosenfels, we probably would have also doomed the season. Favre cannot win these big games.
To a certain degree, his interception was of a greater impact. Because all those fumbles had already happened. They were done with. And the opportunity to win the game was there. It’s not just the fact that a Saints player caught the ball, it’s the decision. It is a matter of, ‘how in the world can anybody do something that stupid?’ And can’t we put a little more responsibility on his shoulders? Everybody around here has loved giving him all the credit for the wins and the 12-4 and etc. And everybody in the world loves to talk about how he is a future hall of famer and so on. So can’t we expect him to make such an easy play? And, yeah, you could say the same about Peterson. He is a great running back, and he should be expected to hold on to the football. Being such a great QB, Favre should be able to reel it in on the MOST important play of the season. And it both is and isn’t the most important play. It isn’t in the sense that every play is important, and it all adds up to wins and losses and championships and so on. But it also IS the most important play. Because everything that led up to it put us in the position to win, even if some of it was bad, even if some of it could have gone better. No matter what happened before, this amazing, great, hall of fame QB had the game in his hands. He had options, he had easy reads, he had no pressure from the Saints rush. If everybody is going to treat him like a savior, then I think it is fair to ask a little from him than just chucking a terrible throw across his body. So his ankle was hurt, who knows if he could have run those few yards…well his ankle was hurt, and that affects throws too.
I never suggested that those other mistakes be overlooked. And I would say about the same for Anderson. Did he single handedly lose the game? Nope. Cunningham fumbled, Randle was injured early, moss dropped a potential TD. But when he lined up for that kick, the game was in his hands (or at his feet). And it does carry a little extra meaning. If I sound pissed off, well, my favorite team just lost the NFC championship.
Great Post
Hi, life-long Vikings fan, longtime reader of the Daily Norseman and first time poster. I shouldn’t ask this question while still being down after this crushing loss, but when we talk about the Vikes future there’s one question I can’t get over and it’s the stadium issue. I don’t live in the upper midwest anymore and so I’m just wondering if anyone with a better handle on the political climate in Minnesota could address that issue. It doesn’t seem to have a lot of momentum right now and that’s scarey because if something doesn’t happen in this session I’m pessimistic about anything happening at all. Sombody please tell I’m wrong and just in a negative state of mind right now. Thanks.
ha!
“Yes, it’s really come to that, and there’s not one of you out there who wouldn’t hop into the passengers seat if this happens again next year.”
If there’s no more room in the car, I’ll volunteer to be tied to the Oak tree.
by peterplaysbass on Jan 26, 2010 10:29 AM CST reply actions
Brett Alonzo Favre
Not trying to be a nitpicky jerk, just genuinely questioning whether I’ve had it wrong all along or not… It’s Lorenzo, right?
If you can't laugh at yourself... Who can you laugh at?
The Packers, that’s who.
-- The almighty Manimal
Yeah.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver
ok, cool
It got me thinking for a second, “Crap, have I had that wrong all along? I feel like an idiot!” hahaha
If you can't laugh at yourself... Who can you laugh at?
The Packers, that’s who.
-- The almighty Manimal
by TheViking83 on Jan 26, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Man, the editors around here
absolutely suck are great, since we edit our own posts.
My bad.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
awesome post
writtings like this is the reason i love to read daily norseman. they made a great choice having you write features.
yes, i would climb aboard, or even cling to the grill of your car, (is it purple by any chance?)
as for my draft strategy, i would see if there is any possibility of moving up high enough to get jimmy clausen, i live near south bend, & got to watch alot of him on tv. he just reminds me of a young brett favre. ALOT of desire, leadership, strong arm. what are your thoughts on that?
by indianavikesfan on Jan 26, 2010 10:45 AM CST reply actions
In a perfect world?
yes, but I have a feeeling it’d cost us so dearly, that it wouldn’t be worth it. We don’t want to be this year’s Chi Bears sans draft picks.
by Jepp The Viking on Jan 26, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
i agree..
but it may be worth checking into. i have been very impressed with the frt office’s decision making during the draft. as fans we only see what is put in frt of us on tv etc.., they have the capabilities to do ALOT more homework than we do. i’m confident they will get us good players.
by indianavikesfan on Jan 26, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
I get the 'move up and draft my favorite college player' sentiment
I was all about the Vikings doing a Ricky Williams trade to move up and get AJ Hawk a few years ago. And I’m all about them doing the same thing for Ndamakung Suh. Which is why everyone should be grateful that I am in no way, shape, or form responsible for the conduct of the Vikings drafts.
Is Clausen really that once in a generation guy, like a Peyton Manning was? No, probably not. Will he be a good quarterback at the pro level? Sure, maybe he will. Tough to say. Assuming the Vikings go with QB in round one, which is no guarantee, you now have to look at where they’re drafting, who they project will still be on the board, and how they compare to Clausen.
I think that Clausen will be off the board, but the talent still available will be pretty comparable. I say they sit on their pick and get either Tebow or someone else, if they go QB.
If Favre doesn’t come back, I bet the Vikes go after a vet like McNabb or Hasselbeck. Not really in favor of that move, but I understand it, because there is urgency with this team. The best chance the Vikings have to get to the Super Bowl was this year, next year, and maybe the year after that. The defense and offensive line is banged up and aging, so the Vikings must exploit this opportunity while it is there.
I think the Vikes will either convince Favre to come back or get another vet, draft a young guy, and when the time to rebuild comes, give the reigns to the youngster. Whoever that may be.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
I don't know if I can cheer for the Vikings
if they pick up Hasselbeck.
Ugh!!!!
I sure haven’t been able to cheer for the Seahawks out here in Seattle the past 3 years with him in charge…
not sold on hasselbeck
i’m not sure if he has much left to offer the way he’s been beat up the last several years in seattle. a change of scenery would probably do him a world of good, but i don;t know if it would benefit us. since there is a relationship with childress and mcnabb, i could see that happening, although i would not favor that. i think that someone other than childress should investigate bringing in a veteran qb. although this (hopefully) will be a moot point when brett returns.
GO VIKES!!!
by indianavikesfan on Jan 26, 2010 10:08 PM CST up reply actions
As a big of fan of the Red Hot Chili Peppers
as I am the Vikes, I suggest the following song to help you all cope
“My Friends” off of the One Hot Minute album.
Enjoy
by Jepp The Viking on Jan 26, 2010 11:16 AM CST reply actions
disagree on mcnabb
first choice brett alonzo-lorenzo-alfonzo-whateverzo favre, of course..but if no go on that..i think mcnabb, being familiar w/ chilly , would be the best bet .. they are currently poised to repeat as serious sb contenders, and who knows how long that window will remain.. esp w/ collective bargaining issues and potential exodus from minn.. so i still feel we need one more “all-in” type season ..
mcnabb might not be cheap, but you need extreme measures to keep lifelong, desparate vikes fans from driving into or strapping themselves to oak trees..and other than bf, he is only logical choice..
other crazy moves i’d make:
- since TJ has no chance at ever being legit starter, work him into wildcat, since he is a mini-vick, and would pose serious run/pass option. (and if he blows out a knee again, who cares!)
- hire a dedicated ball-control coach for AP.. tiki got coached out of it, made all the difference, so AP can as well IF they are serious about it.. o/w he will end up little more than another chuck muncie ..
"the following statement is true:
the preceding statement was false" - george carlin
+1 on McNabb as long as Favre does retire.
If McNabb came to the Vikings next season it would be the most talented team he has ever been on. He could be the starter for the next 5 years.
Who dat? Nobody will remember or care after this week. Go Vikes!
As a Cowboys fan
If Brett does hang it up, I PRAY you guys get McNabb. You may beat us with him in the post season, but at least he’d be out of the NFC East.
Plus, he really would be a great fit into the offense that Chilly wants and in the system that is there now. Percy Harvin easily could be on the level of Jackson, if not better, and McNabb really doesn’t have too much of a vertical endzone threat in Philly like he would in Minnesota.
I'll live and die with number 9....
How about Jason Campbell?
I think he’s more talented than he’s been able to show in DC., and more talented than TJ or Rosencopter.
May the wind be always at your back, and may your placekicker have icewater in his veins.
He'll be back (I hope?)
>>Passenger seat’s open if anybody wants to tag along.
A bit extreme, but on Sunday night I would have been first in line.
With Favre’s fight and heart and pride, I cannot imagine he wants Sunday night to be another notch in his championship-losing belt for which people remember him. Rightly or wrongly, what will stand out are those soul-crushing “Bad Brett” picks with the Pack, Jets and now the Vikes, and not the fact that “Good Brett” DID win a SB. (His 3-and-5 record in championship games is what I hear and read more often right now than anything else.)
OTOH, he got the snot beaten out of him Sunday night, so who could blame him for hanging it up. He probably won’t be walking fully upright until training camp starts.
I’m guessing most people in Viking’s nation and real football fans of any stripe would want him to return. (My bleeding black-and-orange Bears fan co-worker who passionately hates Favre had nothing but incredible respect for the heart he showed in Sunday’s game. Shocked the hell out of me!)
That said, if he doesn’t come back, but all of our other major components do, I’m actually more excited than apprehensive about next season and what’s to come. (Yes, I’m nuts; 80-plus total combined years of “Vikings fan” and “Cubs fan” futility and baseless-optimism will eventually distort your notion of reality. “NEXT season will be the one!”) Aaron Rogers had talent coming into the league, but he obviously learned from watching Favre from the sidelines. My hope is that “Good Brett” was able to rub off at least a little on our 2nd and 3rd stringers during the best stats season he ever had.
I guess as always, I’m bracing for the worst, but still hoping for the best!
by VikesNCubsDeadEnder on Jan 26, 2010 11:28 AM CST reply actions
Vikes and Cubs?
You must really love pain huh? :)
by Jepp The Viking on Jan 26, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
But it don’t come easy. It’s only after so many brutal season-ending beatings. I cut my teeth on the ’69 Cubs AND SB IV loss within mere months of each other, so I got thrown into the deep end from the start.
I now automatically flinch every time someone says ‘post-season’.
by VikesNCubsDeadEnder on Jan 26, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not trying to insult you but
were you in prison or something. Maybe electric shock treatment. The man said he was a Viking and Cub Fan. Milcardfan did you see this? He has been blasted more times than we can remember together. I bow to your loyalty man. I just hope the cubs and Vikes don’t both make it to the big show in the same year and both Lose. Your life would be almost meaningless. LOL
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Jan 26, 2010 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Already Positive for next season
Regardless of the Favre decision(s) about to be made in the near future, this team’s QB situation is in a better position than this time last year. Favre on the sideline after a possession was always coaching T-Jack and Sage, with the occasional Bevell stroking Favre or vice versa on who is more awesome. T-Jack looked extremely solid in his late 4th quarter entries this year. He also put this team in the playoffs last year, despite the interceptions and foolish running from everything strategy he had at that time. I sincerely believe he has made tremendous progression as well as Sage.
As far as AP goes, let him fumble. The kid has more heart (evident with his own recovery on the championship game). And a new RB coach is a roulette game in itself. EB has done a great job as a mentor, and has done wonders with AP. How many receiving yards did AP have this year as compared to other years?
I’ve never felt this confident going into this offseason as I do this year. Why? Well our drafting is phenomenal. We have a solid group of young veteran players on both sides of the field. This team is full of, never quit, never surrender players. We could have experienced a 41-0 blowout by the Saints. But every time they put points on the board, we were right there with points. I don’t see any reason why this wonderful purple team won’t be hosting the Champ game next year.
If anything that can be learned from this season, is this team from the owner to the waterboy, are constantly looking for ways to sell tickets, win games, and bring in more fans. Go Vikes!
Oh btw, longtime reader, finally got around to subscribing, hehe.
+1 I'm with ya
On the confidence factor going into next season. We don’t have a lot of FA’s that we might lose; Ray-Ray being our #1 priority in my book, of Favre’s decision will be huge but I think TJack has learned enough on how to manage this team. The WR’s corps are way better than with what he had to work with the last time he started and he got a full year to learn from the sidelines. I believe an upgrade at RG will help “convince” Favre to play one more year. We don’t have many needs and they could all be addressed in the draft.
You don't know football
Trade one of the best running backs in football for who? Campbell? Orton?
If you compare APs fumbles per carry with the best running backs on record he compares adequately. Are you nuts? Trade AP? I ask again. Are you Nuts?
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Jan 26, 2010 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
Let him fumble?
You’re kidding, right? I’m sorry be we need to go “Barber” on him. Don’t let him see the field unless he carries the ball high and tight. When the ball drops low he sees the bench. Pretty easy to remedy.
Welcome aboard any positive thinkers .
Nice post
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Jan 26, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
I called my shot in September
As you recall I predicted a Favre turnover to end the Championship game, I called this in September. I still expected it on the last drive even though it seemed as though they were actually going to make it happen this time. It still does not make the loss easier to swallow.
It was likely that if the Vikes didn't win that game Favre would have thrown at least 1INT so that is easy to say.
Usually any QB on the losing side of a playoff game has 1 or more INTs. So you had at least a 50% chance of being right. I don’t care when you called it. The Vikes were as heavy a favorite as any to make it to the NFC Championship.
Who dat? Nobody will remember or care after this week. Go Vikes!
He said a Favre turnover to END the Championship game…not just an interception.Taht said he wasn’t QUITE right because the INT didn’t end the game.
Do you want a cookie?
LOL…seriously, no one really cares if you predicted it or not and honestly, bringing it up doesn’t help any. Geez louise. :(
thanks....
been a Packer fan all my life, then followed Brett to the Jets and then MN. what a great year. i hope you long-term Vikes’ fans appreciated what Favre brought to the table. thanks for letting me post here occasionally. Favre or no Favre – i will be back next season. SKOL FAVRE! SKOL VIKINGS! and SKOL DAILY NORSEMAN & ALL VIKINGS’ FANS!!!
and i’m proud of how the majority of Vikes’ fans handled the loss. (why the line through #4, Heech???? yeh Favre’s pass was one he shouldn’t have thrown. but we win and lose as a team. Favre & Co. helped get us to the NFC Championship. Favre & Co. lost the game. wait – i really think they GAVE it to the Saints. 5 turnovers – 2, i think, inside the NO’s 20, was it? can’t have that. no one can sit here and say Longwell woulda made that long FG. would’ve, could’ve, should’ve….
Actually, I'll say it.
Longwell was 8 for 8 from over 50 yards in the past 2 seasons. I’m still kind of annoyed and surprised that people and the announcer were saying “well now it’s out of his range.” No, it probably wasn’t. Playing on adrenaline like that with everything to win IN A DOME?? He’d have made it. Just stupid to not even try and go for some dangerous, high-risk play. And we can thank Peterson’s ineptitude at getting yards in the most crucial moment of the game AND his fumbling for the coaches not wanting to call a (normally) much safer run play in that situation.
From my perspetive, I don’t even care about the Favre INT as much as some rubes simply because it didn’t even have to get to that play. Just dumb.
Correction
In my fifth sentence, I’ve worded it poorly. It should say, "Just stupid to not even try for the FG and INSTEAD go for some dangerous, high-risk play (the pass).
…and what happened to Favre’s protection? man, he looked like an Ultimate Fighter competitor. the WORST beating up i’ve ever seen of a QB. and yet he played on. i wonder how much of that wear and tear affected his throwing that INT…maybe it didn’t have zip he might have normally had. NO ONE can argue that Favre makes 10 of those passes during the regular season for a reception. this one just didn’t go our way. and to think about him running it???? after his beating, I doubt i woulda thought about running it. that 12 man in the huddle hurt us and i’m quite sure affected the play-calling.
again…the TEAM gave that win to NO.
Congrats
This post got a mention in today’s ESPN Insider rumor mill.
Wow, really?
Recognition from the Evil Empire? I get this vision of George Bailey sitting in Mr Potter’s office, smoking a cigar…
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
Good post
Oh, and Vikings fans out there: no bitching allowed once the waffling and speculation begins. It was part of the deal. We dished it out for years to our Packer friends, be prepared to take it.
I’m glad you posted this. I hope no one here at DN is suprised by the waffeling or the trolling that should happen if there is no quick decision by Favre.
I’m not sure about McNabb. My concience says no, but logic tells me that we could have a decent QB to play now while we develop a QB from this years draft.
If Taylor is not resigned I’m OK with that. Albert Young impressed me when he played, even though it was in garbage time. I think he could step up next year. Re-signing Kennedy is a must even if Pat is back or not.
Agree with everything except Taylor
I want him back, but solid post. I think Taylor’s value is not only as a third down back, but as a blocker. Albert Young and AP could wind up getting a 41 year old killed.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
McNabb has thrown the least INTs per pass play out of anyone in the modern era of football. With the ability to throw 30 plus TDs, I'll take him.
Albert Young looks to be as good or better runner than Taylor, but Taylor is the ultimate receiving RB(3rd down). So AP will have to get his hands right if Chester leaves.
Who dat? Nobody will remember or care after this week. Go Vikes!
Once again, so long as Favre retires.
Who dat? Nobody will remember or care after this week. Go Vikes!
McNabb has only thrown over 30TDs once. He could throw at least 25TDs in the Viking offence.
Having Peterson would give McNabb more one on one coverage with his receivers than he has ever seen.
Who dat? Nobody will remember or care after this week. Go Vikes!
Edwards?
Signing Edwards needs to be a priority as well. Yes he’s a RFA but the only compensation we would get for him is a 4th round pick. There are probably a dozen teams in this league that would gladly give up a 4th round pick for a player like him.
Agree
But he’sa RFA, so the Vikes have more leverage over him. I want a long term deal signed with him, because he had a real breakout year, but (and correct me if I’m wrong) the Vikings get to match any offer. I don’t see Ray Ray going anywhere.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
DT
How about a DT this draft. Some quality guys in the group. I think his stock will go way up at the combine when he displays his incredible athletism but if he is still there when it is our turn, I think Cody will be a monster in this league.
Cody really got crushed by a Todd McShay report
from the Senior Bowl earlier today. Cody has battled weight issues in the past, and apparently he hit every buffet between Pasadena and the Senior Bowl…twice. I guess he looks like 300 pounds of chewed bubble gum, is slow off the ball, isn’t moving well, and can’t get off of blocks.
Other than that, dude rocks.
Yeah, I’m down with a DT though.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
Well if Todd doesn't like em them sign me up to take em.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Jan 26, 2010 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
I think McShay was on to something
Good God, those are bigger than Dolly Parton’s.
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
As a seasoned Packers fan
I can assure you with 100% certitude that Brett Favre comes back next year. For your sake (and that of Sagevaris Jacksonfels) I hope he doesn’t bother retiring. I think he will, because he is a drama queen and craves attention more than anything else, but no one will actually buy it this time. I’m really sorry that you’ll have to watch this washed-up, pathetic old gasbag ruin your season for at least the next year. I believe Darth Brent will continue to play until he has a career-ending, possibly life-threatening injury. If he is in his 50s, so be it. And even then, he could try to come back in two or three years.
"F***ing shocker." -Billy Wagner
I think you are right…he might end up being one of those guys that keeps playing until the phone stops ringing. I hope it doesn’t come to that, part of me still wants to see him leave under his own power but the odds are getting less and less these days. He keeps pushing it. This year is just like 2007, he can leave at the top of his game knowing he lead his team JUST shy of the super bowl. I think he needs to take advantage of leaving under his own power and get to that tractor his while he can still walk.
hmmmm...
that’s sound logic, but to a guy who likes to play as much, how much is going out on top a priority to Favre – rather than playing the game?
Blah, blah, blah...
So tired of hearing the whiny Favre-haters..“he’s a drama queen, waugghh.”
You know what? YOU folks sound like the drama queens, so worried about someone else all the time. Quit crying and go focus on your own team. Maybe next year you’ll actually beat your division rivals instead of being swept by ’em, hmm?? ;)
ahh the classic Viking response. “waaah, he disagreed…crap I better rip on his team to make myself feel better.” Thanks for turning yourself into a cliche!
I happen to not like this guys post either but your response was really lame man.
His team got ripped on because it sucked against us this year, nothing more.
;)
The main point of my post still stands and stands resoundingly, I might add.
fucking refs stole that game from the vikes, i wanted a vikings-colts superbowl legend vs. legend, and the saints fucked it all up
hopefully brett comes back for another year i really enjoyed seeing him wearing purple and that cool helmet
"You only get intercepted when you don't know what your doing, I knew what I was Doing."
-Johnny Unitas-
"You're only as healthy as you feel."
-Travis Bickle-
~WE AIN'T GOT NO KILLER INSTINCT~
E~~J~~#
D~~A~~3~~IS A BEAST
G~~M~~2
E.~~E
R.~~S
R
I
N
by 805 on Jan 26, 2010 9:09 PM CST reply actions
good post but I'm not sure I fully agree
1 – drafting Tebow would be a massive mistake. I really hope we don’t have the opportunity to waste a first round pick on a guy who doesn’t have a position in the NFL. I think McNabb would be a solid move. You should get a solid 2-3 years out of him and can draft a QB anytime over the next couple years. He won’t likely put up the numbers Favre put up this year but you also can’t expect Favre to duplicate a career year.
2 – your thoughts on the free agents are all probably true. Sapp and Kennedy are pretty important signings. The problem is that with the way free agency will work this year if we resign all of our significant free agents, we will not be allowed to sign a free agent from another team (like a linebacker). So I guess I agree that those guys are important but signing them is kind of a catch-22.
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Jan 27, 2010 9:43 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Defense first
Our offense is in pretty good shape, with or without Favre. Obviously our skill-players are great, even if Chester leaves. I think you always consider drafting a QB if you can get somebody that has long-term potential, in any round. Same for offensive linemen—you can never have too many.
But I think we are at a critical point with the defense. A lot of guys are getting old, and we’ve shown that our depth isn’t exceptional. In my opinion it is harder to win with a bad defense than with a bad quarterback. Or anyway, watching our terrible defense/great offense from 99-01 made me never want to be that type of team again. Would much rather be the ugly, dominating defense and ball control offense type.
That said, I think we need: A starting defensive back, if possible. Preferably a safety, but even a corner would be nice. Griffin may not be recovered early next season, and it seems like Winfield is close to moving to a new role, either as a safety or full time nickleback. Second, we need a new space-eater inside. Pat Williams maybe has one year in him. Would be great to find a full-time guy, or at least somebody to platoon with Kennedy and Kevin. Third, linebacker depth. Ben Leber has maybe one more quality year in him, and it is a little risky to depend on EJ after all the injuries. Plus, the last couple seasons our linebacker depth has been tested, and I think it has hurt us. Brinkley looks like he has potential, but he is enormous, and maybe won’t ever be an everydown guy. Plus he has a lot to learn still. I wish Greenway was a more consistent tackler, but he is a solid starter.
To recap: The Vikings would be a much better team next year if the defense could shore itself up. My opinion is that the defense should never ever rest, should always be adding. We don’t need any WRs, RBs, or TEs, and should only get a QB if it is a great deal. Please, no McNabb and no 1st roud QB.
Tebow isn't the answer
I don’t know what the obsession is over having a “franchise” QB. People look at Brady and Manning and say “we need a guy to be on our team from day 1 to his last day” and that will be our “insert QB name” era. Why do there have to be eras? The Vikings had some of their best years with mercenary QB’s (Cunningham, George, Favre) to name a few recent years. Why do we NEED to have one guy for long term. If he doesn’t work out, then your team is screwed for the duration of his big contract (see Jay Cutler).
This team can’t afford to start next season with Tjack, Sage, or a rookie QB. Our window of domination on defense is closing, and despite a bright long future of offensive weapons, we’ve learned they mean nothing if you don’t have a solid QB.
My take: If Favre won’t come back, do what you have to do to get McNabb and make a run at the title again in 2010, and have decent shots as well in 2011 and 2012 (McNabb still has some years left in him). In the meantime, use the draft to make a VALUE PICK at QB. If that means taking one late in the 1st round this year, or grabbing an underrated talent in middle rounds next year or the year after, then do it. The Vikes are in good position for drafts where they can use picks to acquire a QB talent, or they can sit back and draft based on Value instead of Need, and so far that strategy has been very effective to building this team into what it is now.
by cdubs on Jan 27, 2010 11:06 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Tangent but
We (The giants) Play you guys away AGAIN!
This is the 3rd year in a row! If its the last game of the season again…
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
by the way, i watched the PI call in OT....
our guy never touched that Saint. the Saint tripped on his own. and it was flagged by the ref in the back who saw the Vike falling down over the Saint. i watched it 20 times. never touched him. and the ref who was in front of (which Vike was covering the receiver??) our guy DIDN’T throw a flag. HE had the best vantage point.
just food to chomp on.
Again, I fully agree..
It was a horrendous, home-town call but that’s just another reason why we should be annoyed with the Vike’s lack of purpose in losing that 3 games in December. Any one of those would have put that game in OUR dome, and perhaps the reffing would have been better. Maybe not but I’d risk it at home over that shady city (N.O.).
I hope those classless jerkwads choke on Colts Gumbo, served up with about 4-6 TDs courtesy of Peyton Manning.
SUCK IT SAINTS.
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