2010 Roster Outlook

Complaint about Ben Leber

You gave Leber a pass, but I do not.

This is a guy who was in position to make something like six interceptions over the past two months. If he makes them, the Vikings are easily going to the Super Bowl. He had one drop against New Orleans that would have changed the game. Other players made mistakes, too, but Leber should have had that INT.

This is your chance, Ben. Spend the offseason in catching drills, fumble recovery drills, etc. You already have that great football mind. You are a general on the gridiron. Now do catch drills and become a super linebacker in 2010.

I remember watching a long interview with a Vikings player at Winter Park. The interview went on for a long time. Practice was over. The facility was empty, except that over in the corner of the screen, there was Visanthe Shiancoe, doing catching drills. He didn’t catch 11 touchdowns just by showing up on game day.

If Leber does the drill work, he will be a huge force for the Vikings.

by medicineball on Jan 26, 2010 5:24 PM CST reply actions

+1/2

Leber is in my dog house. He did not have a good game last week and as medicineball mentioned, that missed pick against the Saints hurt bad. Don’t get me wrong, I think he is a solid linebacker. He is 31 years old and I don’t really see him getting any better, I think he is on the decline.

by Spartan99 on Jan 27, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions

Greenway might deserve the doghouse more

Pretty sure he led the league is missed tackled.

Leber is solid. If your biggest complaint about a defensive player is that he has bad hands, I think he is doing OK. Especially since otherwise he was a very consistent player on our defense this season. I think we can squeeze one more year out of him.

by tuckerbjt on Jan 28, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions

Yes

We need to bring in some linebackers. Greenway didn’t play up to his talent level, and with EJ’s injury, we need more talented linebackers in training camp.

I think Greenway and Leber will start next season, but it would be nice if we had some upstarts behind them on the depth chart who could be playmakers.

by medicineball on Jan 28, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions

Really? I thought Greenway played a great season

I havn’t looked at his stats but he always seemed a stand up guy in the back field. Good hitter, good pursuit of the play, strong motor. Weird.

by Grime on Jan 28, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions

+1

And Leber is a stand-out. Ok, he didn’t make every possible INT that came his way, but he’s not a reciever, he’s not a CB and he’s not a safetey. He’s a LB, and for an LB, I think he’s outstanding. Losing Leber, or Greenway, would devastate the Vikings D.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions

Leber is huge on your defense. He is good in coverage, and is just a smart guy. He is always at the right spot at the right time and he is a pretty reliable tackler.

by packallday555 on Jan 31, 2010 5:48 PM CST up reply actions

Amazing Read

I never thought about bringing in LT. ITs a good idea dont get me wrong, but LTs pride wont allow him to come here. He prides himself with his Touchdowns. He wont get those oppurtunities at the Goal Line like he does with San Diego for a few reason

A) We have Peterson
B) We have Shank
C) We have Rice

If LT can get past that and just wants to win a ring, then he could be servicable here not as good as Chester but he would bring a certain “swagger” and brin Postseason experince.

Tarvaris is the QB of the Future. Trust me

I think you undervalued Onatolu and Farwell a bit. They arent linebackers, they’re special teamers. In terms of that Farwell gets an A and Kenny gets a solid B+

As per Patrick goes, yes that is a very nice route to go for the Vikings but you bring up an excellent point in bringing in Duntae. I would love that. Duntae Robinson is a very good corner.

Ace Deuce- Tell me that is not the coolest nickname ever....... Okayyy maybe "Purple Moses" beats it. :)

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jan 26, 2010 5:33 PM CST reply actions

While I'm sure it's not

the popular opinion, I’m with you, PHMF, in thinking TJ is our future at the QB position.

by KC612 on Jan 27, 2010 8:33 AM CST up reply actions

He has the intagibles

It’s just he needs to put them all together. I’m just waiting till next year when he leads this team to the Super Bowl and everyone that hated him will attribute his success to Brett. While Brett helped him, It was way more Tavaris than anything because even before Brett came in Tavaris showed his cieling which was pretty damn good.

Ace Deuce- Tell me that is not the coolest nickname ever....... Okayyy maybe "Purple Moses" beats it. :)

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jan 27, 2010 3:11 PM CST up reply actions

what intangible does he have?

The lack of leadership? The lack of intelligence? The lack of confidence? I’m not trying to be a douche here, or attack you mate, but I havn’t seen anything to make me want TJ as our QB. He doesn’t read defenses well, he doesn’t lead well and he’s stated midseason that he didn’t think he coudl do he job and win. After he said that to Childress, the coach put in Frerrote.

Getting replaced by Favre, that’s a shot in the nuts but your going to have to man up anf take it, replacing yourseld with Frerrote? That’s not a shot in the nuts, that’s self castration with a side of tobasco sauce for flare.

by Grime on Jan 27, 2010 3:15 PM CST up reply actions

Tarvaris Jackson has lots of intangibles

Let me make the case for this.

How would you like to take a job where 60,000 people would boo you if you ever had a chance to do what you were paid to do? That’s Jackson’s life for the past four years. He’s been a human pinata for frustrated fans hungry for that first Super Bowl championship.

I wouldn’t take that well. I would have not taken that easily.

Tarvaris Jackson has never complained about the fans, his teammates, or coaches. He has never made an excuse for himself.

He is beloved by his teammates and us fans who see his development path for what it is.

We saw that this year. When Favre came out of the game in blowouts, the rest of the offense kept playing hard. Nobody was slacking.

The one intangible that Jackson lacks is confidence. He is not going to have all the confidence he should have at least until he gets his next 500 pass attempts and reaches 1,000 career attempts. Rosenfels is in the same boat. Only about 500 career pass attempts. Maybe Rosenfels has more confidence right now.

I’d rather see Favre back in 2010, but if Jackson or Rosenfels is our quarterback, I am still very excited about 2010.

by medicineball on Jan 27, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions

TJack

I used to be a big supporter, I was patient with TJack. I’ve seen flashes of potential that justified moving up to draft him (probably could have picked him in the 4th round). I just do not think that the system that Childress is running is suited to TJack’s abilities. I think in a system like Tennessee has installed for VY (and that is not a statement of race either, as I am an advocate for McNabb if the price is right) that TJack could be successfull. The system in Denver or NE would be more akin to TJacks abilities.
Put him in the shotgun and allow him to use his legs and arm to make plays.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 27, 2010 3:54 PM CST up reply actions

that didnt come out right

only meant to strike the supporter line

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 27, 2010 3:54 PM CST up reply actions

OK, but why

Jackson has all the physical tools of an NFL quarterback. I see him as a pocket-passer first, with the bonus ability of scrambling as-needed.

Steve Young talks about this sometimes on ESPN. (For young’uns, he was a great pocket passer who was also known for being a great scrambler.) If you want to be an effective NFL quarterback, you must be a good pocket passer. That’s why everyone was so excited for Vince Young when he led his team on that 99-yard game-winning drive against the Cardinals. He led the drive from the pocket. That shifted people’s views of VY. While Jackson’s speed is a great asset to him, that only buys you so much as an NFL quarterback.

The West Coast Offense works and Jackson has been in it for four years now. It’s not a Mike Vick situation where his offense and coordinator are changing every year.

Jackson has a quick release, better than Jason Campbell. Jackson’s throwing mechanics need to be improved, but every year he shows improvement.

by medicineball on Jan 27, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions

Couple of things

I appreciate your comments, I really do, I often agree with you.
However, I don’t think its fair to compare one drive led by VY to the career of Steve Young. I’ve said time and time again that the presence of a strong running game and/or defense can mask weak QB play. In other words, IMHO it is not a coincidence that VY experienced his “re-birth” the same year his running back had one of the greatest single season’s ever produced by an NFL running back. If VY continues to play great and takes Tennessee to the playoffs every year, I will admit that I am wrong. But until that happens, I don’t think his talent as a QB translates well to the NFL.
Finally, I guess my opinion, and thats all it is an opinion, of TJack as a shotgun type QB stems from that fact that, those flashes of potential that I referred to earlier, occured while he was in the shotgun making plays on the run. The game I am largely referring to is the Denver game 2 years ago. The 4th quarter comeback he led was amazing. He was scrabling around, running for first downs and 2 pt conversions. He flourished in that situation. 2 minute, one read, shotgun all the time situation. Ya I know, not much to base an opinion on. But if I look at his performances from last season, much is left to be desired.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 27, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions

Great discussion by the way

keeps me from thinking about, oh no… well it did for awhile anyway

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 27, 2010 4:50 PM CST up reply actions

good discussion, indeed

Here are some important games in Jackson’s career.

Redskins game, 2007 – Jackson’s two interceptions both came under a lot of pressure.

Broncos game, 2007 – Jackson makes several plays, including delivering a bullet pass to Wade that was just beautiful. Furthermore, Jackson had the game won if Troy Williamson had caught that one pass

Cardinals game, 2008 – Jackson’s best game as a pro to date. He had enough time to throw and delivered beautiful strikes all over the field.

Falcons game, 2008 – Jackson fumbled under heavy pressure, but had two touchdown passes, and no interceptions.

Eagles game, 2008 – Jackson’s major mistake was the pick-6. In that play he was under heavy pressure. Late in the game, Matt Birk caused a fumble with a horrible snap. Like most other quarterbacks, Jackson was not able to win his first playoff game.

Tarvaris Jackson had three basic issues in those games. First, his reactions to pressure were not great. Second, he didn’t read defenses fast enough (or made decisions too slowly). Third, his pass protection broke down. All of these issues are solvable. The first two are related to Jackson’s experience, and the last is on the offensive line and running backs.

Now let’s imagine Brett Favre in place of Tarvaris Jackson in those games. What are the most important things that are different? The decision to throw the ball is made more quickly, and the quarterback stands in the pocket, knowing he will take a hit, delivers a good pass anyway, then takes a hit from a defender, giving the receiver the chance to make a good play. This is what Tarvaris Jackson is learning to do.

by medicineball on Jan 27, 2010 6:04 PM CST up reply actions

Tarvaris

also never had as solid a receiving core as we do now.

by KC612 on Jan 28, 2010 7:47 AM CST up reply actions

The only guy he didnt have was Ace Duece

Tarvaris had Shank, Rice and Berrian. The difference is that # 4 did something I dont think Tarvaris will ever do, he elevated the play of those guys.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 28, 2010 10:05 AM CST up reply actions

I'm sure Brett had a lot to do

with their emergence, but so did being healthy and working hard over the offseason. Tarvaris did not have the same Shank or Rice whether that be because he isn’t Brett or said receivers had another year of experience in this offense.

by KC612 on Jan 28, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions

a little of both, but mostly #4

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 28, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions

Rice never really played

He was hurt, and he was kind of a late bloomer. Coaches said when he arrived in 2007 it was like he hadn’t grown into his body yet.

Jackson elevated Berrian for sure, and Shiancoe too. In my opinion Rice is a natural receiver, and would be able to jump over guys and box guys out no matter who the QB was. I guess all you can say for Favre is that he actually threw him the ball.

by tuckerbjt on Jan 28, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions

Sidney must be angry though

The pick-6 T-Jack threw to the Eagles in the playoff game, and the interception Favre threw at the end of the 4th quarter—both of the passes targeted him.

The interceptions weren’t his fault, but I bet he is sick of seeing passes picked off in front of him in playoff games.

by medicineball on Jan 28, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions

This is a very key observation. Favre has been known to push the limits of his WRs. He’s never had true elite WRs until the very end of his career (DD and Jennings). Before that it was average guys that went back to mediocrity once they went elsewhere.

I still think Rice has it though…something changed in how he played from one year to the next.

by TrevorR on Jan 28, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions

Uh, Sterling Sharpe anyone?

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 29, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions

They overlapped for 2 seasons, the first being Favre’s first in green and then first full season. Sure he was there but not during the good years for Favre. He certainly helped Favre get some confidence I am sure. Keep in mind Sharpe suffered a career ending injury in 1994 ending what would have been an amazing career I think.

by TrevorR on Jan 29, 2010 9:33 PM CST up reply actions

Huh?

The only guy you didn’t have was Harvin…The reason your WR corps looked so good was because of Favre.

by packallday555 on Jan 31, 2010 5:56 PM CST up reply actions

Wow. Just imagine how awesome the Vikings WR corps could have been if their ability to go after poorly thrown balls or out of position balls, catch those throws, and pick up some YAC, were contributing factors to how good they were! With some speed and elusiveness, or the ability to run clean routes, or the capacity to get open and provide good targets, those guys might be considered legitimate threats, huh.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 31, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions

I wasn’t trying to say the guys weren’t talented..Like you touched on, it’s hard to catch passing when there coming in at your ankles. (Jackson) Just trying to point out that to say Jackson didn’t have a good WR corps is kind of ridiculous.

by packallday555 on Feb 1, 2010 12:05 AM CST up reply actions

Not ridiculous at all.

Shank was dropping everything thrown his way and Rice was injured and didn’t have an impact.

by KC612 on Feb 1, 2010 7:54 AM CST up reply actions

Growth

Last year the Vikings WR corps was average at best. Berrian was the best they had and he was/is very injury prone.

This year, Rice came of age in Pro-Bowl form, and while Favre was part of it, Rice’s talent went up to a new level entirely. I think this was due to three things; 1) Recovering from an injury that had in him a leg brace most of last year, 2) Attending the WR camp hosted by Cris Carter and Jerry Rice, and working out with Fitzgerald and discovering what it takes to be the best, and 3) A tremendous work ethic that’s had him staying an hour or more after every practice to put in more time, watching lots of film, and going the extra mile. Nothing can be taken from Sidney Rice’s improvement this year, and it would have happened with or without Favre.

Harvin is a game changer that wasn’t available last year, no question about that. Rookie of the Year.

Now here’s what Favre really did for the entire receiving corps, to include the HBs and RBs…. Favre didn’t play favorites, he spread the ball around so much that the opposing Ds couldn’t key on any one or two receivers without getting burned when he went to one of the others. He ensured that every legitimate target was in play and at his disposal, and that’s just damned smart football.

I saw passes going to all of them. Not just Shanko, but to Kleinsasser and Dugan, to Tahi! Tahi even got a TD pass this year, the first in his career, I think. he was so proud he almost exploded, and the look in his eyes as he trotted back to the sideline with the ball still clutched tight in his arms was amazing.

Favre turned them into a team of receivers, where they were all part of the success that the Vikings enjoyed. That’s experience, and leadership, of a sort that we haven’t seen in the Vikings for more than a decade. Whether he returns or not, at least this young squad has experienced it at last, and knows what they need now, going forward.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Feb 1, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I don’t disagree with any of what you just said but had Favre not come this year, I doubt Rice has the big season he does. I think he still would have put up great numbers because he is a great physical talent but 1,400 yards.

To KC above: Shiancoe had a case of the dropsies until about mid-season and then really turned it around. As a matter a fact, he was kind of Jackson’s go to guy towards the end of the year.

by packallday555 on Feb 1, 2010 7:17 PM CST up reply actions

He did turn it around towards the end

of the season, but was more of a security outlet than a gamebreaker.

by KC612 on Feb 2, 2010 7:36 AM CST up reply actions

did you read my post or just the heading?

The guy was saying that TJack never had the receivers that Favre had this year. I was saying that the only guy Favre had that TJ didnt was Percy. I also stated that #4 elevated the play of those guys. Something TJ couldnt do.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 2, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions

What?

Rice got hurt in the 2nd week of the season and was never the same, he could have had Favre last year and the results would have been the same for him. Favre had Harvin compared to Bobby Wade for Tjack. Favre had way better targets and when Tjack did get to play this line up his passer rating is 113. I’m not putting Tjack on the same level as Favre and nor would I dare, all I’m saying is give TJack a chance with this group of WRs and see what he can do.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 2, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions

Okay....

What about Shank and Berrian? Berrian was hurt this year and Favre still managed to elevate the play of the others. Heck even Greg Lewis is now immortalized for the Minneapolis Miracle.
TJack has had his chance(s). And while he’s shown potential, he has shown absolutely no promise of being a true #1 QB in the NFL. Without sounding too much like an exaggeration, I could have posted those numbers in the situations TJack played in this year. I’m not sayin, I’m just sayin.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 3, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions

I'm not saying Favre didn't

Favre has been known for making WRs better, but Shank is an improving player, just like Rice and to say that all their hard work this offseason didn’t atttribute to their success on the field, only because Favre was here is silly. I could argue that TJack elevated the play of Bobby Wade which would be redicules. Bottom line TJack did not have the weapons Favre did so you can’t rate him accuately until he is given a chance with this offensive firepower. How much better would have Favre done (in leading this team) with what we had two years ago and last year? Maybe 1 win more maybe.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 3, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions

So I guess Shank, Rice and Harvin are silly

Because they’ve all publicly said that Favre made them better. Everyone on the team has said that Favre made the team better.
There’s no question that those guys put in the time on their own. It’s well documented that Rice and Shank worked hard in the offseason. But Favre did something that only a future HOFer like he could have; he gave them the confidence that they needed to make their full potential be realized.
TJack does not nor will he ever have that affect on his teammates.

How much better would have Favre done (in leading this team) with what we had two years ago and last year? Maybe 1 win more maybe.

I thought you said it is unfair to compare Favre to TJack? But since you did, its ludicrous to think that Favre would only have been good for one more win last year. On what grounds can you make that claim? AP had a monster season last year. That would have helped Favre even more. Look at the strength of the conference last year. GB 6-10. NO 8-8. The reality is that the NFC was way better in ’09. Without Favre we go 8-8 tops this year. With Favre in ’08 we probably go 14-2 and win the Super Bowl.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 3, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions

That didnt post right: So I guess Shank, Rice and Harvin are silly

Because they’ve all publicly said that Favre made them better. Everyone on the team has said that Favre made the team better.
There’s no question that those guys put in the time on their own. It’s well documented that Rice and Shank worked hard in the offseason. But Favre did something that only a future HOFer like he could have; he gave them the confidence that they needed to make their full potential be realized.
TJack does not nor will he ever have that affect on his teammates.

“Bottom line TJack did not have the weapons Favre did so you can’t rate him accuately until he is given a chance with this offensive firepower. How much better would have Favre done (in leading this team) with what we had two years ago and last year? Maybe 1 win more maybe.”

I thought you said it is unfair to compare Favre to TJack? But since you did, its ludicrous to think that Favre would only have been good for one more win last year. On what grounds can you make that claim? AP had a monster season last year. That would have helped Favre even more. Look at the strength of the conference last year. GB 6-10. NO 8-8. The reality is that the NFC was way better in ’09. Without Favre we go 8-8 tops this year. With Favre in ’08 we probably go 14-2 and win the Super Bowl.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 3, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions

You must be hanging out with R4F

Favre couldn’t lead a Jets team to 9 wins last year and you think that he would have lead us to 14-2 and SB champs? I’d like a double of whatever your having! Favre plays to the level of talent around him, and yes he does elevate their play but he doesn’t make All-Pros of average players.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 3, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions

Well in Favre’s defense he did play like the last 7 weeks weak with a bad shoulder injury. And up to the point where he got injured the Jets were 8-3, and looking like a serious SB contender.

by packallday555 on Feb 4, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions

So now you're comparing the 08 Vikes to

The 08 Mangini led Jets? We were Divisional Champs in 08 even with Gus and Tjack. The 08 Jets would be lucky to have won 3 games with either of those two.
You still have no answer for the fact that the members on our current roster all want Favre back at all costs. They know that the only way they get back to the conference title game with a shot at the Super Bowl is with #4 behind center and #7 on the sideline with a hat and clipboard.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 5, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions

Favre plays to the level of talent around him,

So I guess Favre was surrounded by HOF’s and MVP candidates his entire career.

Too bad TJack hasn’t played to the level of the guys around him, because he would play pretty good if he did.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 5, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions

Wrong!

What I have been saying all along is that Favre had better talent to work with. You are argueing about something different and now trying to sya that the success of the team was all because of Favre. It’s a lot easier to win a race driving a Hot- Rod than a Volkswagon. So now it’s the Mangini lead Jets, so does that make it the Chilldress lead Vikings and not Favre? You’ve confused yourself with what we were originally talking about.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 6, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions

Not if the person in the Hot-Rod is my grandma and the person in the Volkswagon is Jimmie Johnson

And yes, last I checked Mangini got fired from NYJ and is about to get fired from Cleveland. To make matters worse, the guy who replaced him in NY took a rookie QB all the way to the AFC title.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 8, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions

And as a Packers fan, I can promise you we didn’t have surrounded by HOF’s and MVP canidates his whole career.

by packallday555 on Feb 6, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions

How do you know

what TJ will ever do? I’ll answer that for you. You don’t.

by KC612 on Feb 3, 2010 1:17 PM CST up reply actions

I know because he hasn't!

We keep talking about him like he’s never played before. He played at the end of the season in 06, so its not like he was thrown to the wolves immediately. He had the opportunity to win the job and start in 07. He was named the starter at the beginning of 08. Its not unreasonable to expect more from him at this point. It’s not like we drafted him in the 6th round (Brady by the way was and look how that turned out). We traded to move up and draft him in the 2nd round.
I will admit that he has shown “flashes” of potential in that time. A lot of people were critical of Childress during those years for several reasons, so TJack was spared a lot of criticism. (He received his share too, but most was deflected to Childress)
I think now after seeing what our offense can do with a QB of Favre’s caliber, there’s no question that Childress’ Offense works. Ultimately it also proves that TJack hindered the offense when he was the starter.
Another interesting thing that TJack supporters dont want to talk about is his injury history. Every year that he has “started” he has been hurt.
Look KC, some guys have “it” and some guys dont. The one’s that do have “it” you know it from the start. TJack does not have “it.”
I am not a TJack hater. I like the guy. I even like him on our team… as long as he’s not our starter, I’m cool with it.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 3, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions

Missing the point

The whole thing I have been trying to tell you is that TJack did not have the same offensive talent that the Vikings had this year when he was the starter. Give the guy a chance with what we have now, either way if Favre retires you going to have to because he will be our starter.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 3, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions

Jackson’s o-line was better in 2008 than Favre’s this year. I’m not even a Vikings fan and I know that.

This year McKinnie had a bit of a down year. Hutch was slowed by shoulder and back injuries, and Sullivan and Herrea were both below average. The only strong point was Loadholt at RT and even he struggled at times.

In 2008 Jackson had McKinnie who was playing at a high level. Hutch who played like the best LG in the game. Birk at C. The only weak point in 2008 was Cook at RT but it wasn’t like he was horrendous or anything.

by packallday555 on Feb 4, 2010 7:54 PM CST up reply actions

Yes but

The WR corps were average at best and the protection would break down because there was no one open for him to throw to. Birk was in decline also he missed a lot of blitz pick ups, more than Sullivan this year. Sullivan is not below average, Herrera maybe.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 5, 2010 12:34 AM CST up reply actions

I think what he's saying

Is that if TJ is looking like a chicken with his head cut off behind a solid line how bad will he look behind one that is showing signs of its age?

Think about it TJ has very little pocket awareness.

by Grime on Feb 5, 2010 7:50 AM CST up reply actions

Exactly. He doesn’t have much awareness, and it’s evident because a guy with speed and athleticism should be hard to sack. But instead he either just stands in the middle of the pocket collapsing around him (which leads to some dumb plays by him, for example his “jump passes”.) or he runs in situations where he very easily could have and should have stayed in the pocket.

It just doesn’t seem like he has the mental capacity, and the fact that Childress still limited the playbook to Jackson in his 3rd year as a Qb speaks volumes to that.

by packallday555 on Feb 5, 2010 11:09 AM CST up reply actions

I wish I could pour that into peoples heads.

Because the amount of times I type it. I should just create a macro….

Now watch next year he comes out like the second coming of Montana….

by Grime on Feb 5, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions

The WR corps were average at best

because the QB play was below average at best. Many of Sidney Rice’s big plays this year were made off of passes that only #4 could/would throw. Plus look at the games were the defense elected to take Rice away, Favre exploited that and found somebody else to have a big game e.g. Shank, Berrian, Harvin.
TJack hasn’t shown the ability to do that.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 5, 2010 10:32 AM CST up reply actions

The WR corps was average because they had Jackson throwing the ball too them.

Sidney Rice hasn’t ever gotten a whole lot of seperation, and he didn’t this year either. A lot of the great hook-ups he and Favre had were because of Favre’s awareness. In fact many of their big plays came when the initial reads for Favre weren’t there. (Lots of backshoulder throws, or throws deep when Favre noticed a Cb with his back to him.)

There is no way in hell Sullivan missed less blitz pickups then Birk did. Birk might have been decling physically (I don’t really even buy that) but if there was one thing he did well and always will it’s calling the blitz packages and picking them up.

Sullivan basically got manhandled by any DTs bigger then him this year, and that contributed to why your running game didn’t look like the same one from 08’ or 07’.

by packallday555 on Feb 5, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions

Cook was worse

than horrendous. I remember a lot of false starts and other penalties from Cook.

by KC612 on Feb 5, 2010 7:53 AM CST up reply actions

While he did get a lot of false starts he still was generally able to keep his guy in front of him. Let’s just put it this way. People didn’t think he was bad because he was constantly giving up sacks. People thought he was bad because for some reason he had trouble not false starting.

Obviously both are bad, but it wasn’t like his guy was consistently blowing by him, like say Allen Barbre for example.

by packallday555 on Feb 5, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions

You know something surprising?

I watched some film this weekend and I noticed that Cook wasn’t half bad. Might even say pretty dang solid. I watched tape of 07 vs SD (AP’s 296) and 08 vs NYG and Cook held his own. That was going against Merriman and Tuck. No sacks allowed by him. No stupid penalties (he did get called for a hold, but it was on a play designed to go up the gut and AP bounced it to the right and Cook was caught in bad postition). Plus a lot of AP’s yards were on the right side.
I do believe that we missed Birk and Cook this year, a lot. I’m not lobbying for Cook over Loadholt, but maybe he should be looked at for guard or center.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 8, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions

How did you watch film? Is there anywhere you can go online to watch some film? I’ve tried to look a little bit but haven’t had much success.

by packallday555 on Feb 9, 2010 10:15 PM CST up reply actions

I had the 08 season opener vs GB on MNF

recorded so I watched that tape. I also got the DVD set of 5 greatest Viking games for Christmas. The SD game (07) and NYG game (08)were on that set.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 10, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions

Okay, I'll play along...

And pretend that TJack didn’t have an all-around better offensive line in 08 than Favre had in 09. I’ll pretend that Bernard Berrian wasn’t one of the league leaders in yards per catch. I’ll pretend that AP didn’t lead the league in rushing with over 1800 yards. I’ll even pretend that Sidney Rice, Chester Taylor and Shank didn’t exist in 08.

Should I also pretend that TJack wasn’t replaced by Gus after an 0-2 start? Should I pretend that Sage Rosenfels wasn’t brought in via trade in the offseason and had outplayed TJack in the preseason? Should I pretend that Childress didn’t pry #4 out of retirement to save his own job?

I won’t pretend that you might be right…If #4 retires TJack may be our starter next year. I also won’t pretend that in that situation our Oline and Defense are going to have to play lights out, or we’ll be in for a long season.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 5, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions

Should I pretend

that the 0-2 start was all on Tjack?

by KC612 on Feb 5, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions

I don't recall anyone else being benched for the 0-2 start

Who would you like to pretend was more at fault than TJack?

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 5, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions

Maybe Shiancoe

for dropping the game winning TD?

by KC612 on Feb 5, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions

How about TJacks 18 incompletions

Alone against GB? Or the interception he threw in the final minute.
Or how about the fact that we rushed for 180 yards againts Indy and dominated them defensively, but had to settle for 5 FG’s because TJack was 3-12 on 3rd down?

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 5, 2010 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

Ouch!

He did worse than I thought he did.

by KC612 on Feb 5, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions

Childress had to bench him last year

and had to bring in Favre this year or he’d be out of work. There’s just no other way around that.

I’m being honest. I tried to remain patient with TJack. I wanted him to pan out. I wanted him to be our franchise QB for many years. I just haven’t seen enough from him to justify hitching our wagon to him and expect a super bowl run in return.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 5, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions

You know I used to feel alone in my distaste for TJ

but NMVike I feel like I have a brother now. Beware of MedicineBall… He’s still on the TJ train…

by Grime on Feb 5, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions

Ya and nmvikesfan is the caboose of that train

LOL!!!

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 5, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions

Okay Mr know-it-all

So you’re saying an injured, could barely run, missed six games of the season because of a knee injury ,Rice, is the same 100% healthy Rice, who pushed himself all offseason and committed himself to the player he is today but by his own admission didn’t do the work before? I am not a TJ lover and I already told you this but I am not a TJ hater like you. I support my team through and through to the end no matter who is QBing my team. You are trying to say that last years team was just as good as this years team and everyone knows that is not the case the talent level is much better, and yes Favre is a big part of that but it’s not all because of him. Shank was and is an improving player so of course he is going to have better numbers. You are forgetting that TJ had a lot of major personal issues going on in his life at the time, but that doesn’t mean anything because you like other haters are just out to prove a point that’s unfounded.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 6, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions

Dude, while there is no arguing Rice isn’t the same player he was in 2008 do you really think Jackson will be able to get what Favre got out of him?

Like so many of us have mentioned to you, many of Rices big plays and catches came because of Favre’s awareness. Of course Rice has to have ability catch these balls, which he does but the fact remains that Rice doesn’t ever get a whole lot of seperation.

He hurt teams this year because Favre threw the ball to him when he noticed Rice’s defender was out of decison. He also threw it to him in a position allowing Rice to take advantage of his tremendous leaping ability. If you think Jackson is going to be able to make plays off of his awareness and be as accurate as Favre was for much of the year your crazy.

And while Shiancoe was great this year, he was likely just as talented in 2008. Shiancoe had 566 yards this year and 11 TDs. In 2008, Shiancoe had 596 yards and 7 TDs. Favre has always made his TEs look great his whole career and if you don’t believe me go look at some of his TEs stats. It’s not like Shiancoe had 4 more TDs this year because he morphed into a much better player this year. He likely had 4 more TDs because Favre ran your redzone offense much, much better then Jackson did.

Are you really not a TJ lover? Cause some of the things your trying to argue in his defense are kind of ridiculous. I’m not criticizing Jackson because I’m a Jackson hater or because I’m a Packers fan. I’m criticizing Jackson because he isn’t a very good Qb. He lacks accuracy, lacks awareness, and lacks the mental capacity to play Qb in this league. Up until this point in his career he’s been a poor mans Mike Vick. Great arm strength, and good athleticism. Unfortunately, like Vick showed us, just because you have the tools doesn’t mean your going to succeed.

by packallday555 on Feb 6, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions

I've never tried to compare or say TJ in on Favre's level.

We all no know that he has a lot to learn about the game and that is not the issue here. All I have been saying is that the 07, & 08 teams were not as offensively talented as this years team and that he would do better with better talent to work with. You guys made this a BF vs. TJ arguement which is silly. Let TJ play with this talent around him before you say that he can’t play. That’s all I’m asking, or is that too difficult to understand?

by nmvikesfan on Feb 6, 2010 4:54 PM CST up reply actions

Youtried to make it seem as if your weapons around the Qb were much, much better this year then they were in 2008, and that’s just not the case. My argument is not a BF vs. TJ one at all. The only reason I brought up Favre was to point out that he was able to get a lot more out of your WRs then Jackson has been able to do.

Sure, Rice was injured early last season but he played in your last 8 games and only had 100 yards. I don’t doubt that his injury wasn’t still slowing him down a bit but seeing how he played this year you wouldn’t expect for his numbers to be that low, even if he is being held back a little by injury.

Another reason I brought up Favre when talking about Rice is because of how much helped Sidney. Just think back to some of Rice’s big plays. Many of them were just jump balls Favre threw up for him, back shoulder throws, or throws that were made from Favre buying time and Sidney getting open after his initial route (Ex: First TD in the Dallas game.)

The reason I brought this up is because while Rice still has to be very talented to do all these things, so does his Qb. Could Jackson throw Rice some jump balls? Yeah, probably but not with the accuracy that Favre does. Can Jackson make a back-shoulder throw? I sure haven’t ever seen him throw one but who knows? And while Jackson could buy time with his legs, he doesn’t. Maybe all those things could change, but I doubt it.

And like I pointed out to you Shiancoe was likely just as talented in 2008 as he was in 2009.

Having Harvin will is obviously another weapon that’ll help Jackson. And sitting behind Favre for a year should help Jackson as well. But the fact remains that Jackson was a liability in 2008 and until he proves that he isn’t a liability why should we assume he’ll be good like you seem to be doing? So I guess all I’m asking is can we wait for Jackson to prove he is worthy of being a starting Qb before we talk about him like he is a good one?

by packallday555 on Feb 6, 2010 6:00 PM CST up reply actions

That's exactly what I've been saying

Give him a chance to prove himself with this talent. Another thing about Rice he had a better rookie year than last year. I have never said that Jackson is better than he is but also he is not as bad as you all are trying to say.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 7, 2010 12:56 AM CST up reply actions

God I almost hate to say this

But putting better receivers around TJ won’t make him any smarter…

by Grime on Feb 8, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions

He's worse.

Watch some film on him and you’ll see. This is not a Cassel in NE vs Cassel in KC type scenario. TJack still had AP behind him and a solid D. Those are any QB’s best friends…and he still couldnt keep his job or stay healthy long enough to benefit.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 8, 2010 4:48 PM CST up reply actions

Quit making excuses then

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions

"Mr. Know it all," I resemble that remark

Can you guys believe that nmvikesfan and I are cousins? LOL.

I support my team through and through to the end no matter who is QBing my team. You are trying to say that last years team was just as good as this years team

Two things: 1. I could buy that arguement if you were on the team. In that case you should support your QB no matter what because you go into the trenches together. As a fan however, you should be able to voice your opinion and hope that management will bring in the best players available to help your team win. How much support did you have for Spergon Wynn? Or Kelly Holcomb?
2. I was never trying to say that last year’s team (08) was just as good as this year’s team (09). We had TJack and Gus in 08 remember?
My arguement was that even with out Harvin in 08 or without Sidney healthy all year, Favre would have been a huge upgrade in 08 and probably would have been the difference in a much weaker NFC. Look at the facts: We won the division in 08 with a 10-6 record. The Saints were 8-8 and didnt even make the playoffs. The Giants were the best team in the east. The pack was 6-10. It’s not beyond reality to assume that we would have started the year 2-0 and finished at least 12-4, if not better in 08 if we had Favre. Shank was having a great year with GusJack. Sidney had all the potential he has now, that’s why we drafted him so high as a sophmore. In 07 and 08 Sidney made great plays when TJack was out. That’s right, Brooks Bollinger and Gus connected with Sidney on several deep passes. Even a packer fan can see that.

I watched film on the Vikes 07 and 08 seasons this weekend. The fact is TJack is not starting material. He’s inconsistent. He’s inaccurate. He has no pocket awareness. The coaches have to over-simplify the playbook. He has no confidence in taking shots downfield (which as pack pointed out is a huge part of Sidney’s game). He doesn’t evoke confidence in his teammates. He’s injury prone (he missed time in 07 for 3 separate injuries and he was injuried in the 08 preseason).
I am not a TJack hater. I am a TJack realist. TJack has tools, but he cant get the job done. TJack = TWilliamson.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 8, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions

Tarvris will get it done

They said all the same stuff back in the day about Rich Gannon.

by medicineball on Feb 8, 2010 5:28 PM CST up reply actions

People said Ryan Leaf jsut needed time as well

how much time do you give someone? 4 years? 5? 6? Seriously? They are making good money, the rest of the team is made up of probowlers and many of them have work ethics that would make the average human look like a slug. I don’t care how hard he tries, how nice he is, or how brightly he smiles. If he doesn’t impress me on the field after four years then we need to get a new QB. If you think he’ll suddenly sprout wings and fart faery dust on that magical 6th year then stick him on the practice squad or second string him.

by Grime on Feb 9, 2010 9:26 AM CST up reply actions

as long as they keep improving

by medicineball on Feb 9, 2010 7:54 PM CST up reply actions

Haha wait what? That’s all you have to say after here typed all that? I’m sorry but it’s just obvious Jackson isn’t the answer. Why do you think several key members on your team “begged” Favre to come and play? Why do you think Childress allowed him to sign with the team only a month before the season?

Childress isn’t an idiot. Jackson is his guy and for that reason he has to support him. If he doesn’t support him then he looks stupid because he wasted a 2nd round pick on the next McNabb. But I bet you anything he doesn’t feel comfortable with Jackson as your teams starting Qb, especially not after this year.

Childress didn’t even open the whole playbook up to Jackson in his 3rd year! Yes, his 3rd year! Watching Favre run your team with the playbook wide open was like watching a completely different team. Hell, it’d be one thing if Favre was just running the plays much better then Jackson but you can’t even compare that because Jackson didn’t even have all the plays available to him because of his limitations.

Jackson just isn’t ever going to be a good Qb in the league. He might have a 2-3 good games a year but in the rest you’ll likely watch him complete around 50% of his passes, and looking like he is lost out there.

NMVike was pretty spot on with what he found in watching film of Jackson, and I remember Ron Jaworski saying pretty much all the same things in a film session he did in 2008.

by packallday555 on Feb 9, 2010 10:26 PM CST up reply actions

Sometimes

Sometimes quarterbacks take a while to emerge as really good. Case in point. Rich Gannon.

I don’t want Jackson as the starter if Favre is available. I want Jackson on the roster so once he becomes excellent, he’ll be a Viking and not on some other team.

by medicineball on Feb 9, 2010 11:23 PM CST up reply actions

Buy this man a beer!

Make it two!

by Grime on Feb 10, 2010 8:35 AM CST up reply actions

Like pack-all-day said, your missing the point. Nobody here is being a T-jack hater. They are just being honest of what type of a player T-jack really is. A healthy Brett Farve with last years team is a strong superbowl contender. Just like this years Vikings team was. The Vikings probley do not win there division this year with T-jack at the helm.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions

I'll be honest and say we don't come

close to winning the division in 09 with TJack at the helm. There were just too many plays that Favre made with his ability to keep us in and win several games. I say we dont win SF, GB, Baltimore without Favre. That puts us at 9-7 and out of the playoffs.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 10, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions

lol

by medicineball on Feb 5, 2010 4:45 PM CST up reply actions

Well I'll say this

I don’t know what my dog is going to do either but I sure as shit don’t expect mozart to start emenating from his butt. Just like I don’t expect TJ to start figuring out NFL defenses.

by Grime on Feb 3, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions

If Chili didn't trust

TJ to run the entire offense he should’ve picked another starting QB. You can’t win with the plays he was calling even if your last name is Favre.

by KC612 on Feb 4, 2010 7:57 AM CST up reply actions

Exactly my point.

by Grime on Feb 4, 2010 8:54 AM CST up reply actions

Tarvaris Jackson had three basic issues in those games. First, his reactions to pressure were not great. Second, he didn’t read defenses fast enough (or made decisions too slowly). Third, his pass protection broke down. All of these issues are solvable.

All these are solvable but these are the kinds of problems 1st and 2nd year Qb’s have. Jackson was in his 3rd year..

by packallday555 on Jan 31, 2010 5:56 PM CST up reply actions

I’ve said time and time again that the presence of a strong running game and/or defense can mask weak QB play.

Yeah, AP managed to do this to a degree with Jackson. Just look at what your offense looked like with Favre running it, and then…Jackson. Jackson consistently faced stacked boxes, and still could not beat them. He doesn’t read coverage well and his fundamentals are pretty bad.

by packallday555 on Jan 31, 2010 5:54 PM CST up reply actions

I wasnt referring to Jackson when I wrote this

It can mask it, but cant give it a facial reconstruction! Which is what’s needed if TJack is our starter next year.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 2, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions

Need to quit comparing TJack to Favre

No matter who we have back there at QB next year, it is going to be a major drop off compared to Favre (that’s assuming Favre retires). If we spent the rest of our time seaching for the next Favre, we will land up like Denver (Elway) and San Fran(Montana/Young) and never find him. Any Qb that goes to those cities have a huge shadow over them and expectations they are unable to achieve. We are the Minnesota Vikings not the Minnesota Favres.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 2, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions

Minnesota Favres is actually pretty accurate description

He brought a spark to this team that it was sorely missing the last few seasons. He gave the team a legit chance at going to its first super bowl in 30 years. More importantly he gave the team a legit chance at winning their first super bowl ever.
No I am not way saying he did it alone on the field. But he was a huge part of the success on and off the field. There’s no question that he can be directly attributed to more wins this year (see the Minneapolis Miracle) based on his play. But he also built the confidence of his teammates.

I know we can’t be searching for the next Favre, he’s a once in a lifetime player. I just hope we dont settle for the next Spergon Wynn.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 5, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions

So I guess your loyalty will go with Favre when he retires?

A man by the name of Adrian Peterson had already brought that spark maybe you’ve heard of him? The Jared Allen trade di the same thing. There has been excitement about this teama nd the direction it was going that’s why Favre wanted to come here. Yes he came added fuel to that fire and I hope he comes back for one more year but if he doesn’t my hopes of winning the SB this year don’t end with him, there wil still be plenty of excitement around here in Minnesota VIKING land.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 6, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions

I think your missing the point he is trying to argue. He isn’t saying his loyalty will go with Favre when he retires, he’s simply saying Favre was a lot of the reason you guys were as dominant as you were.

Sure AP and Allen are great but neither of them did nearly as much as Favre did. AP had what was considered a down year for him, and your defense looked a bit more suspect in comparison to the 2008 season.

Of course you guys have a lot to be excited about if Favre doesn’t come back but the reality is unless Jackson improves a lot or Sage comes in and plays really well, your offense may struggle a bit, Especially if McKinnie and Hutch don’t return to the 2008 form.

Your defense has some questions too. Losing Pat wouldn’t be a disaster but it would probably hurt you guys a bit. It’s also not know how effective Henderson will be coming off that injury. Though, even if he doesn’t come back at as strong a level, you guys will probably be more then good with Brinkley who will improve after an offseason. The secondary situation looks suspect right now as well too. Griffin will be coming off an ACL tear and Winfield is likely going to have surgery on his foot sometime this offseason. They were your top two guys, and while Sapp actually has improved quite a bit, expecting he and Allen to be your #1 and #2 guys might be a little much.

You guys are probably the most talented team in the league but it’s not like your going into next year with all your guys 100% healthy, and playing their best football.

by packallday555 on Feb 6, 2010 3:37 PM CST up reply actions

I can't believe that you would EVER question my loyalty

I bleed purple. You know what I am about. I will tell you what I am not about. I am not in denial. It sounds like you are afraid to acknowledge that a former packer came in and made this already good team into a great team. That has never been a concern of mine. Everyone knew that we were a QB away. And that QB happened to be # 4. I dont care that he used to wear green. He’s one of us now. And I can admit that he elevated this team to a new level of confidence and power (I had to throw in that pantera lyric).
The spark I was referring to is on and off the field. The confidence he brought to this team is unquestioned. His skill is unquestioned. But even the interest it generated was unprecedented. We played in some of the most watched pro games ever this year. The games I saw this weekend from the 07 and 08 seasons, the metrodome was half full at kickoff time. The announcers mentioned several times throughout the broadcast the the dome wasn’t as loud as it had been in the past. Hell we almost didnt sell out the playoff game vs Philly! Thats part of the spark that I was talking about.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 8, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions

No one is compareing the two

Because, there is no comparison. Brett Farve = Legend Could be considered the best football player at any position. Tjack is a project possibly could be used as a wildcat QB.
Nothing else, end of story.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 2:36 PM CST up reply actions

I was also at the Denver game and I saw Tjack over throw wide open recievers and get sacked for a fumble in OT.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions

If I see TJ throw another ball at a receivers feet I think I'll scream.

by Grime on Feb 10, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions

You didn't really give a single intangible in that statement MB

other than he takes a lot of crap with a smile on his face. And it sucks that he has to, but he can change our minds fairly easily by being better. We didn’t even need him to be a superstar. Just someone who wouldn’t lose games, and I think the year before Favre came he proved to me he doesn’t have the mental fortitude to do it.

See when I look at TJ I see the tangibles athletic, good arm, supposedly decent accurracy.. But when I watch him play that is when the intangibles that I mentioned before come out. Sorry man, I know you like the man as a QB but it will take quite a bit for me to. I mean look how much Childress hobbles his offense because TJ was running the plays. I can’t remember how many times I heard that we had a vanilla play book because TJ was having problems with a more complicated one..

No I would be happy to eat crow on this one, but sadly I don’t think I will be.

by Grime on Jan 28, 2010 8:39 AM CST up reply actions

what are the intangibles?

That is a sign of an intangible in my book.

I see the intangibles as leadership, confidence, courage, resourcefulness, determination, cheerfulness in the face of adversity, and calmness under fire.

Jackson has a great foundation of intangibles, and is gaining confidence, growing calmer under fire, and becoming a better leader. He has courage, resourcefulness, determination, and cheerfulness in the face of adversity.

Playing smart, knowing the playbook, reading defenses, and being situationally aware—I see those not as intangibles but as a combination of intelligence and experience.

Do you see it differently?

by medicineball on Jan 28, 2010 9:16 AM CST up reply actions

One thing for certain MB, I really, really hope you are right!!!

Going to be hard to settle for mediocre QB play after the season # 4 gave us.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 28, 2010 9:41 AM CST up reply actions

me too

But I think #4 is coming back.

by medicineball on Jan 28, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions

Ok lets look at the intangilbles you picked

I would say that leader ship isn’t one of the ones that TJ has shown in the past. He doesn’t seem to be a player who wants to shoulder the tough calls. As they said in teh Replacements you have to want to be the guy who wins the game for you team. I see TJ looking to not make a mistake to lose the game for his team. Sorry that’s just how i see him
Confidence: don’t think this is strong either and really how could it be? Getting pulled for Frerrotte, having them beg Favre to come back, all these things point to the coaches thinking you can’t do it.
Resourcefulness: he’s got this one, he can keep a play going much longer than most.
Courage: Well this is a mixed bag for me, he looks like he’s terrified in the pocket at times. Which is not a good thing for a QB. Someone (Allen) needs to drill him a couple of times tell he realizes it’s not going to kill him.
Calm: See courage, he doens’t look calm he looks scared.
Cheerful well he does seem cheerful which brings me to the next one.
Intelligent: I"m not saying TJ is dumb, by no means, but he does seem to have a hard time learing things after only 3 years of studying them… Still has major problems reading defenses and spotting blitzes. The guy may be smart but I don’t know if he’s quick.

Sorry man I don’t see how you can actaully look at TJ when he plays and think that he has positives in most of those areas. As I said before though I hope I’m wrong. And he’s better than some.

by Grime on Jan 28, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions

I love that line in the Replacements

“I winner wants the ball in his hands when the game is on the line.”

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 28, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions

thank you for actually remember the line

I so miserably destroyed :D

by Grime on Jan 29, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions

I winner wants the ball in his hands when the game is on the line

That is Brett farve’s creed.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions

situations

All valid points.

I just want to say one thing more about situations. I wish Favre had been the guy not trying to lose the game in the 4th quarter, instead of the guy trying to win the game.

Remember the Giants game in 2008? We were behind 19-17 with time running out, and needed a field goal to win the division. Jackson got us into range for a 50 yarder. Longwell made the kick. Of course, we would rather have scored a touchdown there, or be closer in, and there was less pressure, but still. Jackson did a good job there.

The job of the quarterback is to keep possession of the ball, and put your team in position to win the game. Easier said than done.

by medicineball on Jan 28, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions

What TJ hasn't displayed yet

Intelligence – He isn’t trusted with the keys to the offense, or to do anything complicated. I don’t remember what his Wonderlic score was, but he doesn’t seem very bright. The best QBs are cerebral.

Judgement – He has, in the past, displayed consistently poor judgement, making lots of throws into traffic unnecessarily, running when he could have thrown, going head-to-head with opposing linebackers. This worries me a very great deal.

He’s a likeable guy, he shows flashes of competence, even brilliance on occassion, he’s atheletic, has a cannon-arm, and is fairly accurate).

On the other hand, he also has a few issues weighing against him….

Readiness – I know he hasn’t had a lot of opportunity this year, but whenever he has been given some play time, his play has been consistently uninspiring and lackluster.

Right now, unless he’s got some magic mojo he’s been hiding behind curtain #2, T-Jack has displayed all the competence of a future solid 3rd string QB. This suggests we need a 1st stringer (McNabb, anyone?) and a grow-me project (Clausen or McCoy would be excellent).

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions

Terry

Bradshaw? How bout Ben Roethlisburger? They aren’t exactly the sharpest tools in the shed either. Maybe TJ isn’t trusted with the keys to the offense because his coach is paranoid.

by KC612 on Jan 29, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions

you can make up for lack of intelligence

by having instincts that save your ass. TJ’s instincs would lead him to the lions cave in search of a ho ho…

In all seriousness I really would not complain to much (well yes I would) about him being the QB next year. I understand people want to give him a chance to prove himself and while I think he’s had that chance, obviously many people still think he has enough talent not to be a waste of space.

by Grime on Jan 29, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions

What?!? Bradshaw isn’t sharp? You’d never guess watching him on the Fox show every week!! [end sarcasm]

by TrevorR on Jan 29, 2010 9:34 PM CST up reply actions

I'm suprised your computer didn't break

typing that.

by Grime on Feb 1, 2010 8:53 AM CST up reply actions

15 wonderlic go figure

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions

Football has changed so much since the 70's

Defense’s are much more complex, and Offenses are probably 100x more complex. That makes your Bradshaw arguement moot. Big Ben was a top prospect coming out of college. He was drafted high in the first round. He is way more talented all around than TJack. Maybe not as fast or not as good on a motorcycle, but he has TJ beat in just about any other important category.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 2, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions

You pick a one item

and I know TJ has led us to more than one victory, but I still see him making some pretty basic mistakes. He’s not trusted with the offense, and I think that is what worries me the most. When the coach can not trust the QB to run his offense how the hell is he supposed to win?

TJ is a great guy I’m sure would love to play Euchre with him, but I wouldn’t want to be his partner.

by Grime on Jan 29, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions

I see the intangibles as leadership, confidence, courage, resourcefulness, determination, cheerfulness in the face of adversity, and calmness under fire.

Does Jackson have any of those? Leadership? No. Confidence/Courage/Determination? No. Calmness under fire? No!

Maybe he has cheerfulness though.

by packallday555 on Jan 31, 2010 5:59 PM CST up reply actions

Much like a puppy

However I don’t want a puppy running my offense.

by Grime on Feb 1, 2010 8:54 AM CST up reply actions

Childress should never

have limited the playcalling in the first place. What happened was defenses (even us fans) started being able to guess what was coming because his playcalling was so predictable. You don’t send your warriors into battle without a full arsenal.

by KC612 on Jan 28, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions

Your right he shouldn't have

And he didn’t he brought in Frerrote when he realized TJ couldn’t handle it.

by Grime on Jan 28, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions

and when Frerotte was ready to return from his injury?

He (Chili) opted to stick with Jackson because he realized TJ gave the team a better chance to win. Chili is too wishy washy and needs to learn to stay the course.

by KC612 on Jan 28, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions

With all due respect you didn’t make really make an argument for Jackson. Just because he is under a lot of pressure doesn’t make it ok that he can’t read defenses or throw the ball accurately.

by packallday555 on Jan 31, 2010 5:51 PM CST up reply actions

Packallday555...

I think you spend more time here than on the ACME site? Is ok, I understand your attraction for the Vikes! Many do the same, with reason… We will save you yet!

There is still (and always) time to come over permanently to the “bright side” of the border (namely MN – right next to ya there in WI) when it comes to fandom….We welcome new believers!

NOTE: Maybe a slight change in your handle required…

; )

GO VIKINGS!

I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...

by vikingfanfrom afar on Jan 31, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions

Not quite, I think I have almost 1,000 more posts over at APC but I am over here a fair amount. Can never get to much football!

by packallday555 on Feb 1, 2010 12:06 AM CST up reply actions

agreed I'm almost... almost ready to start talking on acme.

Just because people don’t post here fast enough :D

by Grime on Feb 1, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions

Don't be a baby, we'll catch up! LOL

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Feb 1, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions

Don't worry went over there

Man they still hate the Vikes. I mean I don’t think I’ve ever just seen us make threads up about their team sucking. As well even the posters over here are hard ass idiots when they post on their own board. Being over there for 10 minutes was less dealing with good football as it was reading hor Fran T was the best for saying how Favre wasa cry baby loser etc..

Oh well, guess I’ll go back to Baltimores site.

by Grime on Feb 1, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions

Just not worth it

I mean, why do you come to participate in SBNation at all? I’m sure it’s not to deal with aggravation like that, on the DN or elsewhere.

I don’t agree with Tark’s opinion, and I wish he would recognize that he has a role that he can step into that’s more than just a fan if he chooses to take it by being directly supportive of the team. But Tark’s become a crusty old bastid who’s more interested in speaking his mind than being more than just a fan. He just gives fodder to Viking’s detractors, here at the DN as well as on APC.

I’m still not ready to drink the Favre-Aid, but I’m glad we have him and I don’t think of him as a Packer at all. To me, he’s a Viking now, and I want him back next year.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Feb 2, 2010 7:32 PM CST up reply actions

Nah it's not

As for Tark it really irritates me that the man is such a curmudgeon. I have loads of respect for what he did, and I would like to continue to respect him, however, it’s getting a might bit difficult. I will always revere him for what he has done though. Nothing can take that away from him.

by Grime on Feb 3, 2010 8:24 AM CST up reply actions

I agree

T-Jack is our future and I’m all for him!

Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!

by UnBannedVikingholic on Jan 31, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions

Farwell and Onatolu

I certainly agree with you about Farwell and Onatolu; I gave the grade with more of an eye toward their position as OLB.

As far as LT, he is going to be cut by the Chargers and I do not think he will be contacted by any clubs to be a feature back. I do think he would jump at the opportunity to be on a supeerbowl ready team like the Vikings. With that said I still hope we resign Chester instead.

by Richmond Viking Fan on Jan 26, 2010 6:40 PM CST reply actions

Farwell

Can play LB in this league. We’ve seen him in preseason the last couple seasons flying around making plays. He has a real nose for the football and I believe he will get his opportunity somewhere down the line.

by Spartan99 on Jan 27, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions

LT is slow now

All he can do now is punch it in from close to the goal line, or pick up a short yardage first down.

I can’t help but like LT, but we already have the league’s best short yardage back (AD).

by medicineball on Jan 27, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions

League's Best Clutch-Fumbler

Personally, I’m tired of Adrian Peterson’s promises “to do better”.

I don’t think he will, not because he can’t, but because I don’t think he’s sincere about believing that it’s a real problem.

Adrian Peterson probably still doesn’t get it that he’s one of the direct, personal causes that the Vikings won’t be going to Miami next week.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions

He sure as hell should

If not I need what he’s smoking.

by Grime on Jan 29, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions

Do you think

Favre gets it that he is one of the direct reasons as well? How bout Harvin? Berrian?

by KC612 on Jan 29, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions

All the people above and some that I didn't mention

were responsible for us not going to Miami. Peterson promises to do better. Brett says maybe he should’ve ran, ya think?

by KC612 on Jan 29, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions

it takes a lot of ingredients to make a soup

but only one to screw it up. Well we had a couple of bad ingredients in that soup but one of them was as bad as any other PLUS was added WAY to often. So yeah I tasted a lot of AP fail in that game.

Hrm this diet is starting to affect my posts. Maybe I shoudl quit it.

by Grime on Jan 29, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions

Understanding That They Screwed Up

Look, everyone makes mistakes. That’s normal, it’s human, it happens. I don’t have issue with that.

I really don’t even think it’s worth pointing the finger at Favre. The VIKINGS played pretty darned good, all in all, and despite the mistakes, they still almost won.

What bothers me is when they don’t admit that they screwed up. Because if they don’t admit it, then they feel the have nothing to fix.

For months we’ve been hearing from Chilly and Favre that they have complete confidence in AP and that there is no problem. Well, if it were true that there was no problem, then they’d all be in Miami right now.

If they admit they have a serious issue in AP’s running style, they can make a serious effort at fixing it. After 3 years, it’s clear that they either don’t think there’s an issue, AP can’t get better at protecting the ball, or the Vikings are incapable of coaching AP to do better.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 10:16 PM CST up reply actions

Why shouldn't he shoulder at

least part of the blame? He did turn the ball over just like Berrian, AD, and Harvin. They all deserve a piece of the blame pie.

by KC612 on Feb 1, 2010 7:59 AM CST up reply actions

Yes, Favre's well aware of it

He’s admitted as much in at least one interview.

But so what? At that point, after all the other issues, it’s hard to point just at Favre and say, “Oh look, it’s that QB guy’s fault we lost”. Come on, there were a lot of other screwups long before he did that, and if those earlier ones hadn’t happened, he wouldn’t have needed to push the issue at the end. Favre played a heck of a game, and his clock management is absolutely magnificent. Very Tarkenton-like :)

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Feb 2, 2010 7:35 PM CST up reply actions

I am speechless DC...

Thats a first

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 2, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

The Coaches, and the Fans, are at fault

We all blow so much smoke up Adrian Peterson’s tail end that he doesn’t believe he really has a problem. Yes, he knows when he makes a mistake, but I don’t think he accepts that he really has a bad technique problem, a vulnerability that defenses are explicitly keying on.

I saw that comment by Tiki Barber, may be AP will take that seriously. I think his RB coach should be held accountable, and replaced with someone who is capable of teaching AP to protect the ball better.

The thing is, NMVike, a problem can’t be fixed until it’s acknowledged, and some accountability is taken. I don’t think that AP is unteachable; I think that if he realizes and accepts where his biggest issue is, he can begin to successfully address it.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Feb 2, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions

LT

I don’t see LT coming to the Vikings. You know he would want big time money and a center spot in an offense somewhere. I disagree with Richmond, I think there is team out there that would be interested in making him a feature back. He would be good signing for an organization looking to put some people in the seats. The same might be true for Chester. I’m sure he would like to be the starting RB somewhere and get paid like one.

by Spartan99 on Jan 27, 2010 12:55 PM CST up reply actions

LT

…seemingly does not accept that he is no longer the best running back in the NFL. Can’t see him doing the wonderful job which Chester has done. In an uncapped year, hopefully the Vikings can afford bringingTaylor back, but since the word is that Minnesota is going broke and everyone in it should be hoarding their pennies for fear of home schooling their kids and then stashing away beef jerky and bullets for when those starving Canadians come thundering across the Boundary Waters to steal all the food, I guess things could go rather baldy,

by Elgar on Jan 27, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions

What LT and AD have in Common

Both are good at denying reality.

LT doesn’t understand that he’s no longer the best.

AP doesn’t understand that he has a problem holding onto the ball.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions

Did you watch the probowl?

Probably not. Doesnt sound like you watch much football. When they brought up AP during the probowl, all the announcers could say was that it was obvious that AP was still so devastated about what happened in the NFC title game. They talked about how he’s going to have to put it behind him so that he can go forward. Sounds to me like he understands damn well that he messed up.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 2, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions

sorry for questioning your football IQ

I am just stunned by all the bashing of AP lately. He is still the best player on our team and one of the best players in the league. It has been well documented on this site that many HOF running backs struggled early in their careers with fumbling. I agree that it needs to be fixed. But I am no where near ready to throw AP under the bus for losing the game. What about Leber’s missed tackle on the saints first TD? What about #4’s 2 INTs? What about the 2 other TO’s? What about no pressure on Brees? On and on and on….

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 2, 2010 3:35 PM CST up reply actions

Acknowledge it, Own it, Make it Accountable, FIX IT

No worries, man. You feel strongly about it, fair enough. You’re not a malicious writer and you’re not a naysayer; I’ve enjoyed most of your posts quite a bit.

You’re right, I don’t watch a lot of football. I usually watch about 20 games a year, total. Every one of them features a team wearing purple and gold. I consider the season to be over when the Vikings are done playing :) . Super Bowls are meaningless and irrelevant to me if the Vikings aren’t in them, last year’s Super Bowl was the first one I watched since the ‘70s, and that was only because I was so impressed by Fitzgerald (whom I consider to be a misplaced Viking, and that it’s an honest-to-goodness tragedy that he’s not in Purple).

If AP is devastated about the loss of the NFC Championship, I’d say that’s a good sign. If he turns that upset into something productive, like focusing on improving his technique to protect the ball, then I’ll be impressed. No more talk, NMVike, like I said, I’m tired of hearing the platitudes. I want to see some results. I want to see the Vikings acknowledging the problem, and see what they’re actively doing to fix it.

Anything else is just so much hot air.

Oh, and I know there’s lots of other reasons for the game being lost. Believe me, I have the damned thing recorded on the DVR, I know all too well that lots of mistakes were made. But you know, no one else (except possibly Favre) has a career built on a reputation for turning over the ball. I don’t rag on Favre because I think Favre played a great game, all in all, and I’m not quite ready to buy into the Packer-fans claim that blowing the big games if Favre’s trademark. I don’t think Favre has anything to fix, AP does.

By the by, speaking of things to fix… one of the things that the entire Viking team needs to work on is tackling. Tackling, tackling, tackling, not overrunning the target. Basic stuff.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Feb 2, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions

I was at the 08 Probowl and saw AP tear it up.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions

Nice work on evaluating the players

The work you put into this is amazing. I must say though that your Free Agent signings are not going to work.
Under the new rules which go into effect if a new CBA (labor unon) contract is not in place by March 1, 2010, the Vikings are not allowed any Free Agent Signings this year, except they can sign a free agent for every free agent they lose. BUT The new contract can not be for any mor money than the old player got from his new team. So La Damien can only sign with us if Chester leaves and LaDamien can’t get a dime more than Chester gets. I’m thinking they might not be equal in money paid. But who knows . Its the NFL.
Your free agent signing of a cornerback is in the same position. No such thing available.

The vikings must build from within. Sign their own Free agents and draft well. We can’t trade for a QB like McNabb because we need every draft pick. Why? Because we can’t sign free agents. Our success has limited outr ability to grow. New rules. New Contracts.
Be very glad that the Vikes have a great front office.
I recently posted the new rules for Free agent contracts and how that effects the Vikes. Go to that post for more info.

Very Nice Job on the players and contracts.

Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes

by lifelongvike on Jan 26, 2010 9:56 PM CST reply actions

I don't know man if you think we can win teh SB and we don't have Favre

Do you really stick TJ in there and make sure we have no chance? Or do you go for McNabb knowing the rest of the team is pretty damn solid? I"m not saying we’d get McNabb I think Reid would rather him go to someone he won’t be seeing in teh playoffs next year.

by Grime on Jan 27, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions

What exactly has McNabb

accomplished in the playoffs that makes you think he’d be an upgrade over Tarvaris?

by KC612 on Jan 27, 2010 3:21 PM CST up reply actions

Um lets see he's won one for starters.

Comparing McNabb to TJ is sort of absurd McNabb when he is on is one of the better QB’s out there, he gets injured quite a bit, but other than that he is a much better QB all around. Plus I’ve never heard of McNabb talking himself out of a job.

by Grime on Jan 27, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions

McNabb lacks consistency

as does TJ.

by KC612 on Jan 28, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions

Yes but McNab lacks consistancy at a higher level.

Now I hate that I’m arguing for McNabb becuase your right Im not a fan of his because I think a QB needs to be consistant so the coach and team can know what to expect from him.

by Grime on Jan 28, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions

TJ had a lot going on in his life at the time that was more important than football

If you can recall his wife was real sick with lupus and his at the time eighteen month old son was hospitalized with a heart condition, and were in Alabama far away from him. Now that those issues have been stablized his play has been so much better, and his head is in the right place. I commend TJ for being able to handle what he went though, even losing his starting job to Favre and not be bitter about it.

by nmvikesfan on Jan 28, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

We all go through hard times in life. Did you see the MNF game when Brett Farve tore up the Raiders just after his dad died. Brett farve started his NFL career after being in a car accident and having his intestines removed. Brett Farve is a legend period. That is what great players do. Some have “it” and some don’t.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions

+4

TJack doesnt have it. And its not going to take giving him another chance to prove that.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 10, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions

Tough times agreed BUT

There are no excuses in life. Im not down playing what Tjack went through, but we all have are dilemmas in life to go through. Brett Farve had arguable the best game I have ever seen by a QB against the raiders after his dad died. Brett Farve is the real deal. Some might say he might be the best ever. He is “Ironman” . Brett has the will to win. Tjack would of crumbled in the NFC championship game and you know it.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions

A lot of folks have disagreed with me over McNabb

But no way in hell am I going to stand for TJack and McNabb to be mentioned in the same sentence, unless its “Breaking news: the Minnesota Vikings have signed Donovan McNabb and cut veteran Tarvaris Jackson to make room for him on the roster.”

McNabb has led his team to the NFC championship 3 times and the super bowl once. I would say that justifies the fact that Grime thinks McNabb is an upgrade over Tarvaris.
I’m not trying to be disrespectful either, just stating facts. McNabb is a top tier NFL QB. TJack is not top tier.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 27, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

McNabb is damaged goods

Don’t get me wrong I wouldn’t mind him being on our team but I wouldn’t give much if we were to trade for him. McNabb has already reached his ceiling and would be another bandaid/stopgap QB. TJack is on his way up and one thing that I saw this year in the short time he played was his decision making was faster and he delivered the ball with some heat, and also his passes were on target. A lot of people tend to forget that he beat Sage at the begiining of the season before Favre came on board.

by nmvikesfan on Jan 28, 2010 1:11 AM CST up reply actions

A lot of people out there thought the same thing about #4 prior to this season

And I’m not ready to celebrate the fact that TJack beat out Sage just yet ;-) Afterall TJack was a 3 year incumbent, Sage was in his first training camp with us. I expected TJack to beat him out.
I think more people tend to forget that TJack has had durability issues every season. Also in the time TJack has been a candidate for the starting job, Childress drafted Booty and Thigpen, signed Gus, Sage and Favre. Speaks volumes to me about his confidence in TJack.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 28, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions

Any Qb that loses to the cowboys 3x's in 1 year is damaged goods.

by nmvikesfan on Jan 28, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions

LOL! Point taken

All the talking heads could do prior to divisional round was how Favre had lost 3 straight playoff games to Dallas…my what a change of scenery did for that stat!

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 28, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions

Lay of the Crack pipe

The Vikes would love to have Mcnabb in a Purple and gold uniform period. Elway won his 1st superbowl at 37 I think. 40 is the new 30. Athletes take so much better care of there bodies these days. Tjack is not on his way up, he is at best a wildcat qb nothing else. If you think that Tjack will take the Vikes to the promised land your fooling yourself or smoking crack.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions

Philly fans are idiots and if they let Mcnabb leave they will reget it . I do not know if Minnesota will be able to afford the price that they will want for Mcnabb. IMO I do not think PHILY would trade Mcnabb to the Vikes. Mcnabb is definitly an upgrade over Tjack and he still has some gas in the TANK!!!!

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions

Plenty

3 straight NFC championship games + 1 superbowl. What rock have you been hiding under.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions

don't sell my man T-Jack short

Every year he improves. He has a lot of potential.

I’d rather have Favre, but Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer wear Super Bowl rings. Our defense could be superb next year.

by medicineball on Jan 27, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions

leadership is probably the most underrated quality of an NFL QB

Leadership evokes confidence in your troops. Despite his amazing numbers, I believe Favre’s leadership is what was most valuable to this years team. It made everyone around him confident and a believer.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 27, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Johnson/Dilfer

Brad Johnson was a very good leader. He was a great comeback quarterback. He did his job well, which was winning football games. He wasn’t a pretty passer or huge stats guy, but he got the job done. Johnson’s second time with the Vikes didn’t end well only because his ideas clashed with our head coach’s ideas.

Trent Dilfer is not a leader, but his team had other standout leaders, like Ray Lewis.

Jackson is developing leadership qualities. It’s a process. He’ll get there in a few years. He’s younger than Rosenfels.

Rosenfels already has leadership intangibles. His Iowa State coach talked about that. Between Jackson and Rosenfels, I would pick Rosenfels to start based on his leadership qualities. That said, if Rosenfels gets too many turnovers, we would have to switch to T-Jack.

by medicineball on Jan 27, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions

Rec'd ya on that one. TJ has ZERO confidence.

and because of that no leadership.

by Grime on Jan 28, 2010 9:09 AM CST up reply actions

Agreed

And beyond leadership, the Vikings are mostly a very young team and few of them have ever seen or experienced what it’s like to work for a solid veteran who knows what he’s doing and can do it. Same for the fans, all the new fans have seen is what it’s like with a train wreck running the offense, until Favre came. Now they know something different.

To put it another way….

The past few years, whenever T-Jack took a snap, I found I was holding my breath, literally bracing myself for the cringe that I knew was coming when T-Jack did something stupid yet again.

When Favre came in, I could tell just by watching the way he lined up behind the center that everything was going to be ok. I could breathe. That’s not because of Favre’s rep, and it’s not because he’s the “greatest QB and future Hall of Famer”, I don’t into that fanboi leg-tingling crap. It’s because it was obvious that there was a man who knew what he was doing, a veteran who could lead and make decent decisions.

Maybe T-Jack is ready…. I don’t know. Haven’t seen anything to suggest it yet, though, so fingers crossed.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Man I think I rec'd you three times today your on a roll!

by Grime on Jan 29, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions

Thank ye kindly :)

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 10:18 PM CST up reply actions

The great ones do

I saw Elway take 3 mediocre teams at best to the superbowl. He made everyone believe that they always had a chance to win. I know they got killed in those 3 superbowls, but we all know what happened once he got a supporting cast around him he won back to back superbowls. Farve turns a good team into a great team.

by Legion_of_Doom87 on Feb 10, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions

I'm with you, mb...

…and I lived in metro Atlanta and saw the deer-in-the-headlights, alcohol-enhanced version of Favre play two decades ago. I always tell people Georgians would have traded Favre to Green Bay for a hockey puck, and hockey ain’t all that big down there.

T-Jack has the arm and legs to be an NFL star. It’s obvious from the last play, even Favre still makes mistakes too. Terry Bradshaw was never a potential rocket scientist but made a heck of a quarterback.

I am sure Tarvaris has learned a few useful things by watching how BLF does it: When the whole world seems to be throwing you on the ground, you just keep coming, and you do your thing. The people in the cheap seats are there for a reason. As long as you get the guys in the huddle to follow you, you’re okay (unless there are eleven others in there).

by Elgar on Jan 27, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions

Good job....

Let’s see what kind of magic the front office comes up with for next year to address our needs/keep us moving forward to that ultimate goal: First SB W! I am sure they are scheming as we are! SKOL VIKES!

I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...

by vikingfanfrom afar on Jan 27, 2010 2:54 AM CST reply actions

McNabb

This is the move to make. If Philly is foolish enough to trade him the Vikings would benefit more than any other team by signing him. No one likes to give up draft picks (well actually some do) but I would trade a 2nd round pick for him. The Vikes wouldn’t miss a beat next year.

by Spartan99 on Jan 27, 2010 1:05 PM CST reply actions

There is no way Reid will trade him here

Are you kidding me? Not only are we in the same conference but we are also garunteed to be in the play offs. No Reid will let McNab either slide to a non competitive team in teh NFC or a team out in the AFC.

by Grime on Jan 27, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions

or maybe he does

Maybe Reid does trade him here, knowing that McNabb can’t handle the pressure and will lose to his old team in the NFC Championship game.

I admire McNabb, but I’d much rather have Favre in 2010.

by medicineball on Jan 27, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions

I must concur with Grime on Reid’s view. It’s only rabid Philly fans who think Mc Nabb should be given the death penalty for not knowing all the rules of football, although I still can’t wait to hear that starting line-up on TV where Michael Vick says, “Michael Vick, quarterback, U. S. Penitentiary, Leavenworth.”:

by Elgar on Jan 27, 2010 3:57 PM CST up reply actions

Yea

I don’t think McNabb is going anywhere.

by Spartan99 on Feb 3, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions

Rec'd

Solid work! You really did your homework, and while everyone can nitpick here and there, I found myself agreeing with almost everything you said.

by Eric J. Thompson on Jan 27, 2010 1:17 PM CST reply actions

Thanks

Eric – Thanks for the comment! I had fun with this, my first fanpost. It was therapy for me to try and move past a painful Sunday evening and look forward to 2010!

by Richmond Viking Fan on Jan 27, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions

It was a great post and probably much better for you than my fix

which was drinking tequilla until a picture of Rosey O’Donnel looked good. At least I hope your method was better….

by Grime on Jan 27, 2010 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

They say it’s always time to tuck yourself in when you start thinking that your best option is to straighten Rosey out.

by Elgar on Jan 27, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions

Free agents not an option

It looks like that with the current rules the Vikes don’t really have a shot at any top of the line free agents. If that’s the case then the draft seems to be where we have to go. The 1st thing we have to do is keep our own quality players. Chester is a stud & needs to stay. We need to combine some of our draft picks & move up in the draft to get a couple of solid players.
We don’t need 7 draft picks. 2 maybe 3-solid guys would enough. Get a top OL guard & a DB. The time is now for this team. We just screwed up a shot at the Superbowl, but even with Tarvaris I can still see this team getting another shot at it. Things change fast in this league so lets go for it.

by iowaron on Jan 27, 2010 3:33 PM CST reply actions

Grade for Cook...

Why no grade for TJack?

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 27, 2010 3:47 PM CST reply actions

passer rating

Yeah, good question. Jackson’s passer rating this year was 113.4.

by medicineball on Jan 27, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions

And Cook didnt false start once while on the PAT team LOL

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 27, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions

TJack Grade

After sitting on the bench for a year, watching Brett do his thing… I truly do not know what kind of QB he can be. He has more physical tools than Brett I hope some of Brett has rubbed off on him. Like when Sidney is being single-covered – throw him the ball and give him a chance.

by Richmond Viking Fan on Jan 27, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions

Insufficient Evidence

You only get a grade in a class if you show up the minimum number of school days. TJack gets an Incomplete, and they don’t refund his tuition, but 113.4 ain’t a bad test score.

by Elgar on Jan 27, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions

I was sort of half-way kidding

However, I just wondered because guys who saw about the same amount of playing time received a grade.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 27, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions

great post

only complaint is your ranking of Jared Allen, his play really dropped in the last 2 weeks maybe longer, he did squat against the Cowboys except 1 play when they left him on Witten ans Witten whiffed and Bushrod schooled him as well. Very over rated but he gets a lot of media attention because he`s a character.

by ziggy19 on Jan 27, 2010 5:20 PM CST reply actions

Allen was chip,double teamed, and held on almost every play

You saw what happened when he was single blocked and not held,he made a play. Bushrod got away with a lot non calls, I could not believe that the ref’s just let him hold Allen all game long. Allen’s a All-Pro voted by his peirs, and he gets all the media attention because of his play on the field; only player in NFL history to have three consecutive years of 13+ sacks: 17,14.5, 14.5. And yes he is a character and a pretty good one at that, best Mullet ever!

by nmvikesfan on Jan 28, 2010 1:01 AM CST up reply actions

only issue

I agree. The only problem I have with that is why weren’t we holding the Saints when they rushed our quarterback?

by medicineball on Jan 28, 2010 8:09 AM CST up reply actions

Because the O-line keeps half-an-eye on their QB and the moment the ball is gone, they let up. There shouldn’t be much point in continuing to fight when there’s nothing to fight over.

Only the Saint’s D didn’t stop just because Favre was empty-handed….

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions

btw Rice

is the next Fitz and will relinquish Jerry to the other Rice.

by ziggy19 on Jan 27, 2010 5:22 PM CST reply actions

It sure isn’t the popular opinion as said before but if favre retires I hope we do let Tarvaris take the ropes. He should know the playbook and if he has learned anything from Favre we shouldn’t have a problem with him. Maybe not as great of a year as Favre but I do believe Jackson is the future here in Minnesota. SKOL VIKINGS

by Skoaldybi on Jan 28, 2010 1:12 AM CST reply actions

I agree

That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want a young developmental guy, but Jackson is as good as anyone else we could get for the next couple of years. Many people are down on him because he was thrust in the starting position too early and it showed on the field. He’s be very resilient and I think we’ll see his potential the next year he starts. I don’t expect Favre level performance, but I do expect him to be an average or better starting QB.

by ChemErik on Jan 28, 2010 9:12 AM CST up reply actions

+7

by nmvikesfan on Jan 28, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions

I kind of agree with you

But when you trade to move up in the draft to pick somebody…you ought to get something back for that type of investment sooner rather than later.

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Jan 28, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions

I dissagree

I have made every excuse possible for T-Jack, but I think we know what we have in him. I dont think he has the potential to be a franchise quarterback. More importantly I would be very concerned with his ability to score Touchdowns. Its all about scoring TDs, FGs dont win games. If he does end up being the starter I would like to see him run more on 3rd down. If its 3rd and and 3 drop back, take a look and if its not there just go. Make a play. No point looking around patting the ball, make a decision and go for it. Confidence and decision making are the attributes T-Jack has lacked in my opinion. I’m not so sure that he can change that.

That said, he could lead this team to the playoffs…hell, Gus Ferotte did.

by Spartan99 on Jan 28, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions

A few things that I saw from TJack when he did get to play was

He looked more decisive and got rid of the ball quicker and he also threw the ball harder than I was used to seeing him throw. Things that he could have picked up from Favre because he didn’t do that before. In the Seattle game he dropped back looked off the safety and fired a strike out in the flat to Rice who made the defender miss and ran it in for the TD. That said he has a better team to lead this time around than what he had before, plus he got to learn from the best.

by nmvikesfan on Jan 29, 2010 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Very nice debut!

Great post, and welcome aboard :)

Quarterbacks

Everything hinges on Favre’s decision, of course, and the sooner the Vikings know what’s up, the sooner they can act accordingly.

But if he’s staying, they should try to draft a QB or trade for a draft QB, best QB available.
If he’s not staying, they should try to acquire McNabb if it can be done reasonably, and still pick up a draft QB, re-sign T-Jack, while trading Rosenfels.

Running Back

Adrian Peterson is worth a lot still…. I think I’d see what sort of QB material he might be worth, in a trade. The average RB has a career of 3-5 years where he’s running his best, then it tapers. A lot. We’ve had him for 3 of those years, it’s to look at the alternatives.

Taylor, Tahi, Dugan, and Young, should all be resigned. This was Young’s first year, he’ll get better.

I don’t know James Johnson, but didn’t we have Ian Johnson on the PS?

More later….

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 11:15 AM CST reply actions

Jaymar/James

Jaymar Johnson, WR, was on the active roster this year. He is a hard worker and will probably get more playing time in 2010 if he keeps going the way he has.

James Johnson RB, was in training camp last year.

I think.

by medicineball on Jan 29, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions

Jaymar Johnson

He got such a glowing review out of the WR camp that Carter and Rice ran, last year, that I really expected to see him step out. It was more than a bit disappointing than he didn’t, but then… honestly, he’s still got some time to grow.

I hope there’s another, similar WR camp as last year, and that all the Vikings WRs go to it.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 10:21 PM CST up reply actions

I don't know what kind of QB we would get for AP

I can’t see a lot of teams trading a starting QB for a starting RB no matter how good he is, and we would need a pretty damn good QB to make me thinkg we got a good trade, like philip rivers.

by Grime on Jan 29, 2010 2:09 PM CST up reply actions

LOL! That works for me! :)

Seriously, I don’t know. It might fly in a trade for a high draft pick QB, and possible the deal might need to be sweetened with a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I don’t think that anything less than a young, top-rated QB would be worth letting go of AP.

I’ve been thinking about this since the draft threads, and the Vikings only have 1 player which fits this bill to obtain a top-rated QB;

1) Good enough to be worth letting go of a hot young QB prospect
2) Someone the Vikings can afford to let go without it seriously impairing the offense

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Jan 29, 2010 10:28 PM CST up reply actions

Albert Young has spent 2 years with the Vikings

Ian Johnson was in his first year on the PS. That trade of AP you spoke of is blasphemy

"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula

by NMVike on Feb 2, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions

I don't know about balsphemy

but it definitely is keeping your options open. I’m not saying we should trade AD. He’s still an excellent back although I don’t think i can be impartial and still call him the best. Because of this I think it would be imprudent not to at least think about trading him. Wether or not we do that is another matter, but if the price is right moving on without him shouldn’t be seen as blasphemous. Now I don’t see any trade we could make with him that would be good enough but remember someone did make that Herschel Walker trade so there are teams out there just dumb enough to do it.

Personally, I don’t want to get rid of him I thikn he’s a dynamic back that can still get it done. I thikn we need to bolster the O Line in the draft and I think Peterson needs to start using pine sap on his hands…

by Grime on Feb 2, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions

Trading Adrian Peterson

Look, I love AP on the Vikings, he’s the most awesome pure RB I’ve ever had the pleasure of watching.

But he’s a liability because he doesn’t have good technique for protecting the ball and every team in the NFL focuses on taking advantage of that, especially down in the red zone. This needs to be fixed. Not an option.

Beyond that, how much longer do you think he can play at this high a level? Seriously. We got his best 3 years so far, if we’re lucky he has 2-3 more top performance years left in him before he begins to decline. Until that happens, he’s worth more than his weight in solid gold, as trade-bait….

So what do we desperately need, even more than AP? You know the answer… as tough as it is, we desperately need a franchise-quality QB, preferably a young proven guy who will be able to guide the Vikings to victory for the next 15+ years.

2-3 years, vs 15+ years…. I’m not saying the Vikings should get rid of AP, I’m just saying that if a really good opportunity comes along, it has to be considered. Especially since the NFL penalizes the acquisitions of any team that finishes in the top 4.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Feb 2, 2010 8:01 PM CST up reply actions

If we trade AD for a rookie QB, is because we're rebuilding

No way are we trading AD, especially now with Favre possibly retiring. We are a championship team and AD is a BIG reason why and he knows he has something to work on. Maybe you can rewatch on your DVR where AD is holding on to a football on the bench because he knows he has to hold on to the ball better. AD wants to be the best and he will work hard at whatever it is that is hindering him from being it. You can find a franchise QB anywhere in the draft, see Tom Brady 6th rd pick for example.

by nmvikesfan on Feb 2, 2010 10:38 PM CST up reply actions

I hope you're right, I really do...

And I did see him holding on to the ball on the sidelines, after the fumble. Now I want to see some results.

If we can get a top quality QB for the long run, in some other way, I’m all for it. I just can’t think of how it’s going to happen other than pure luck unless the Vikings put something on the table.

Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!

by DCPurple on Feb 3, 2010 7:22 AM CST up reply actions

Glenn Dorsey and Derrick Johnson

Over on Rube Chat, they are discussing an ESPN rumor about the Chiefs’ move to a 3-4 and them needing to unload Dorsey and Johnson. They were great college players and high draft picks.

ESPN floats the possibility of the Chiefs trading them for “mid-round draft picks.” That probably means rounds 3 or 4, maybe 5. One pick per player.

As for Derrick Johnson, he has been adequate but not great yet. He ran a 4.52 40-yard dash at the NFL combine in 2005. I have seen him make a lot of plays in space where he can uses his speed. I haven’t seen him make a lot of plays when he goes through a block, and then makes a tackle. A good linebacker has to be able to run through blocks and then make the tackle. With his speed, he does meet one of the requirements or our middle linebacker. He can blitz the quarterback and make interceptions. A middle linebacker needs to have leadership capability. I am not familiar with Johnson in that regard.

I don’t know how to evaluate Dorsey. Many times defensive linemen take a while to develop in the NFL however.

Assuming that they wouldn’t cost too much—or that their contracts could be renegotiated to something reasonable (Dorsey was drafted 5th overall in 2008)—then they might be worth two of our picks. Going into the draft, defensive tackle and middle linebacker are both needs. By picking up potentially good players with some experience under their belt, we could use picks 1 and 2 or some our other needs like CB, FS, right guard, or QB.

by medicineball on Feb 11, 2010 8:59 AM CST reply actions

That is a good idea

Plus we all know the Chiefs are defensive power house. So that makes the decision even easier… :D

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Feb 11, 2010 9:31 AM CST up reply actions

lol

So true. We got Jared Allen from them, but sometimes when you keep going back to the barrel, you don’t find any more apples, just lemons.

by medicineball on Feb 11, 2010 10:00 AM CST up reply actions

Quarterback	Age	Contract Years	Rating
Brett Favre	40	1	A	Likely to retire
Sage Rosenfels	32	2	C	Decent Vet backup QB
Tarvaris Jackson	27	RFA	?↑	Likely to resign / Coach's Pet / has all the physical tools

Running Back	Age	Contract Years	Rating
Adrian Peterson	25	3	A	Will learn not to fumble and be THE best RB in the NFL
Chester Taylor	30	UFA	B	Very valuable as a third down RB for the Vikings
Naufahu Tahi	28	RFA	C	Hard working FB. Will resign
Jeff Dugan	29	2	C	Can play FB or TE. Valuable to the Vikings
Albert Young	25	?	? ↑	Has shown a bit in 2009
James Johnson	26	1	F	Signed future's contract

Wide Receiver	Age	Contract Years	Rating
Bernard Berrian	29	4	B	struggle with injuries for most of 2009, however very solid WR
Sidney Rice	24	1	A↑	Exploded on the scene in 2009, SIGN to an extension right now!
Percy Harvin	22	4	A	Offensive Rookie of the year / Pro Bowl Kickoff Returner
Greg Lewis	30	UFA	D	He will be invited to training camp / knows offense
Darius Reynaud	26	?	C↓	Punt Returner for 2009 and can return kicks
Jaymar Johnson	26	?	? ↑	hardest worker on roster / he may make impact in 2010
Taye Biddle	27	1	F	training camp body

Tight End	Age	Contract Years	Rating
Visanthe Shiancoe	30	2	A↑	Rose to the elite level / very hard worker
Jim Kleinsasser	33	2	B	One of the best blocking tight ends in the NFL - Still!
Garrett Mills	27	?	? ↓	Shows great pass catching skills however is injury prone

Offensive Tackle	Age	Contract Years	Rating
Bryant McKinnie	30	4	B	Overrated Pro Bowl Player, however is still very solid
Phil Loadholt	24	3	C↑	Started every game of rookie year / will only get better
Ryan Cook	27	RFA	D	Former starter that can play every position on OL

Guard	Age	Contract Years	Rating
Steve Hutchinson	32	3	A	All Pro Guard fought injuries all year / expect to show old self in 2010
Anthony Herrera	30	3	C↓	Former Solid guard displayed declining skills in 2009
Artis Hicks	31	UFA	C	Valuable backup at Guard and Tackle / expect to be resigned

Center	Age	Contract Years
John Sullivan	25	2	C↑	First year starter in 2009. Heady player, expect improvement
Jon Cooper	23	?	? ↑	Great lineman in college. Needs a little more weight

Defensive End	Age	Contract Years
Jared Allen	28	4	A	Best DE in football, best mullett in football
Ray Edwards	25	RFA	B↑	Came on strong in playoffs, Vikes should sign to extension
Brian Robison	27	1	B↑	Only Produces when on field. If needed can replace Edwards
Jayme Mitchell	26	1	D	Run Stopping Backup

Defensive Tackle	Age	Contract Years
Kevin Williams	30	5	A	Best 4-3 DT in NFL
Pat Williams	37	1	C↓	Skills are declining / Will possibly retire
Fred Evans	26	RFA	D↓	Evans did not improve from 2008 to 2009 / might not be resigned
Letroy Guion	23	2	? ↑	Young development DT / unknown quality at this point
Jimmy Kennedy	32	UFA	C↑	Vikings should be able to resign / showed some spunk

Outside Linebacker	Age	Contract Years
Chad Greenway	27	1	B↑	He is a very solid linebacker. Very heady player
Ben Leber	31	1	B	Ditto
Erin Henderson	24	1	D	decent special teams player/might not be able to keep roster spot
Heath Farwell	28	2	B	Special Teams Demon / provides decent back up
Kenny Onatolu	28	?	C↑	Great Special Teams Player / a little light for OLB in NFL

Middle Linebacker	Age	Contract Years
E.J. Henderson	30	2	B	can he come back from that terrible injury. YES!
Jasper Brinkley	25	3	C↑	Showed something in relief duty. Improved every game.
J Leman	25	?	F	Too slow for the NFL / Practice Squad at best

Cornerback	Age	Contract Years
Antoine Winfield	33	4	B	Pro Bowl CB had a rough year with the foot injury
Cedric Griffin	27	4	B	will have ACL surgery soon / Hopefully ready for regular season
Karl Paymah	27	RFA	F	Will not be resigned. Disappointing 2009 season
Asher Allen	22	3	C↑	Showed potential / has all the physical skills and can hit people
Benny Sapp	30	UFA	C↑	valuable as Nickel Back / stepped in for Winfield

Safety	Age	Contract Years
Madieu Williams	28	4	C↓	Seemed a step slow all year, missed too many tackles
Tyrell Johnson	25	2	C↑	Ended very strong, he was very solid in the playoffs
Husain Abdullah	25	1	D	special team player
Eric Frampton	26	RFA	D	very nice special team player
Jamarca Sanford	25	3	C↑	The Kid is a thumper! Showed potential / great on Special Teams

Special Teamer	Age	Contract Years
Ryan Longwell	36	1	A	Was Mr. Automatic in 2009
Chris Kluwe	28	4	B↑	Kluwe had a very good season / much improved from 2008
Cullen Loeffler	29	?	B	Long Snapper that Vikings don't need to worry about

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