Mike Pereira Twists the Knife and Peyton Manning Better Watch His Knees
by Christopher Gates on Jan 28, 2010 8:47 AM CST
in Vikings 2009 Season
123 comments
The Vikings committed five turnovers and had two other fumbles against the Saints in the NFC Championship Game. This we know. However, if you take the word of the NFL's Vice President of officiating, at least one of those turnovers shouldn't have happened.
Per Pro Football Talk, during the "Official Review" segment of last night's airing of Total Access on the NFL Network, Mike Pereira told viewers that Brett Favre's first interception of the game should have been wiped out by a flag for a cheap shot courtesy of Saints' defensive end Bobby McCray. On the play, Saints' defensive tackle Remi Ayodele hit Favre high just after he released the pass that was intercepted by Jonathan Vilma, while McCray dove and hit Favre below the knee.
Granted, the officiating wasn't the reason the Vikings lost on Sunday. . .turning the ball over on four five different occasions was. Still, it's always a bit frustrating to hear stuff like this three or four days after the fact, particularly knowing that despite those four five turnovers, the Vikings were still in a position to win the game late.
If the interview that Saints' defensive coordinator Gregg Williams gave ESPN 104.5 in Nashville on Sunday is any indicator, the Saints have a definite strategy in mind when it comes to defending the league's elite quarterbacks.
Asked if after a game that included a couple of controversial hits on Brett Favre he would talk to his defense about the potential for calls protecting Manning, he said:
"Here’s the deal. When you put too much of that type of worry on a warrior’s mind, he doesn’t play all out. If it happens, it happens. And the only thing you’d like for me to say is that if it happens you hope he doesn’t get back up and play again."
Translation: We're willing to risk a couple of 15 yard penalties if it means making the other team have to go to their backup quarterback.
Translation #2: Against the Vikings, our defensive strategy wasn't "hit Favre." Our defensive strategy was "hurt Favre."
Good luck trying to get away with that crap against Peyton Manning, Gregg, considering that a) the Saints' defense actually has to get to Manning first and b) call me crazy, but I'm guessing that so much as looking at #18 sideways in two weeks will be enough to draw a flag, never mind trying to go all Shawn Eckardt on his lower legs.
Oh, and the Saints and Vikings meet again next season, too. I'm guessing that Bobby McCray will have his head on a swivel from the second he jogs out of the tunnel in pre-game.
At least, he should.
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Refs' hindsight
I was wondering if there would be any official word on some of the more debatable calls made in that game. Interesting to hear that the first interception would’ve come back.
Objective viewer here...
Personally, I thought the low hit should have drawn a flag, although I wouldn’t have classified it as a cheap shot.
However, earlier in that drive, the Vikings were beneficiaries of a very weak roughing the passer call on Anthony Hargrove on a 3rd and 4 incomplete pass from the Vikes 38 yard line, that would have led to a punt, but instead extended that drive.
Poor officiating on that drive for sure, but both bad calls equally benefited each team.
I'm not about to say that the outcome of this game should be different based on the officiating,
but a LOT of those calls could have gone the other way on review, and there were a couple of non-calls that really hurt as well.
I'm not even going to get into overtime
Because. . .well, just because.
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by Christopher Gates on Jan 28, 2010 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
like the three calls on the one, the only, and the final drive in OT...
where IF the officials had instead called it a fumble and pushed the spot back on fourth down or IF the preceding pass incomplete on third down were ruled uncontrolled on the ground or IF they had not called pass interference on a ball somewhat unlikely to be catchable then such calls on the field too would not have been overturned or even reconsidered by the replay videos either, according to the same Mr. Pereira? Yeah, let’s not talk about that stuff. It will only make things worse and illustrate how close this game actually was and explain why I’m wearing a Peyton Manning jersey and hoping the 2010 regular season game against the Saints is played in Minnesota with a ref crew said by the Dallas press to favor home teams.
As soon as the line was in
I put $1000 on the Colts -6
Here comes another blowout superbowl game that we used to see every year until the last few years.
I don’t think I agree. While I do think you guy outplayed the Saints for a lot of the game (though you basically handed it to them on a platter with the turnovers), the Colts don’t have the kind of D the Vikings do. I think this is going to be another higher scoring game and should come right down to the end again. I wouldn’t be shocked to see either team win this…
Was there any thing said about the Saints 2nd touchdown
Can’t remember the Saints player that scored it but Minnesota should have challenged it he was apparently down before the ball crossed the line.
by just another viking on Jan 28, 2010 9:03 AM CST reply actions
I agree
But they would have likely scored as it would have been marked at the 1/2 yard line anyway. Still should have challenged it but I don’t believe that made a difference in the game.
We will never know
Chances are they would have scored but there might have been a fumble or interception. We may have held them to a field goal. We should have scored just before halftime & came away with zero. It sucks all this hindsight crap. These refs are supposed to be the best in these playoff games. If the Saints win the Superbowl it will be just one more dagger through the heart of all the Viking fans because we all know that we are the better team. The Saints are a good team but anyone outside of New Orleans who saw the game knows that it was more of the Vikes losing it than the Saints winning it. Heck even with all the Viking errors it still came down to a coin flip & a couple more controversial calls.
Hmm
I posted a less confrontational and accusatory (I thought), more reflective take on this same subject in a fanpost here yesterday, including the comments form Pereia as well as Peter King;‘s quote of Darren Sharper, and both some Vikings fans in comments on my fanpost, and Saints fans in a fanpost over at CSC that pointed to my DN fanpost, called me out for being a crier/whiner. Even though I almost betn over backwards to be non-specific about Sunday’s game, but more general and philosophical about the risk to the integrity of NFL football in general if it becomes more & more reduced to essentially putting bounties on the opponent’s skill players
I’ll be interested to see how your much more blunt post is received.
They can receive it however they want
Their defensive coordinator came out and stopped just short of saying that their goal is to straight-up injure opposing players.
“. . .you hope he doesn’t get back up and play again.” Those aren’t my words.
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by Christopher Gates on Jan 28, 2010 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
i am a great believer in Karma
and that attitude will come back to bite them….maybe not this year but they will be called to account for that attitude…..hopefully soon
by just another viking on Jan 28, 2010 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
I agree about karma
but be careful what you wish for.
Lot of late, cheap hits on Romo the week before, but amazingly, that was “just playing tough D”, but when it’s spun around on the Vikings, its somehow wrong…
that which doesn't kill you, probably hurts like hell.
by JasonAHeath on Jan 28, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Because there were no late hits on Romo
If there had been, they damn sure would have been called.
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by Christopher Gates on Jan 28, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Our D coordinator
Also didn’t come up publically and admit he wants the QB to feel the hits. Personally this move was idiotic because now the refs will watch them like a hawk. Prediction: At least two roughin penalties on the Saints in the Bowl.
Maybe its karma that did your team in then…a week after the controvesial TD with under 2 min left, you team can’t seem to NOT turnover the ball in a game where you were clearly outplaying them statistically???
or
It was karma against the cowboys for running up the score on the eagles twice.
by koooolaid1087 on Jan 28, 2010 3:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That actually didn't happen
we never ran the score up against them, we only scored 1 touchdown in the 2nd half of each of those games and they were a 49 yard and 73 yard touchdown run in the 3rd quarter. In fact in the playoff game we only threw the ball 10 times in the second half. Never ran the score up, some people want to point to throwing the ball in the 4th quarter of the week 17 game but it was only to pick up 1st downs and keep the clock moving then we ran it again.
You guys all said if you don’t want them to score a meaningless touchdown then stop them, if you don’t want the Saints hitting Brett Favre, tell your line to protect him, that simple.
We're not pissed because Favre was hit
We’re pissed about the “Late Hits” and the “Dirty Hits” that weren’t penalized.
We’re also pissed because the Saints DC publicly said that he wanted his D to take Favre out of the game.
We’re also pissed because the Officials did a crappy job in OT.
cali viking
f**K off sduncan24 dont come to this site with ur b.s favre will b back next year and beat the cowgirls and the aints and on that note u suck skol vikings……
Agreed
But I think in this we find two different kinds of fans — those that think this was what football should be all about (“smashmouth”) — including some Vikings fans who responded to my fanpost — and those that don’t (“aimchair quarterback” types — like me — who would prefer to see it decided by talent and skill and preparation and cerebral scheming/coverage/containment by our own players, rather than by focusing on knocking out opposing players). How you feel about all this (if you can step away for a moment from which team you were rooting for) I think defines what kind of thing you are looking to get out of watching the game.
No those arent your words
But neither are “you want me to say”. Words that proceded it. As a Saints fan i came over here right after the game and said my piece. That being, that I had never thought much for or against the Vikings in general but after meeting and talking to most here I’m now a “secondary” or whatever you want to call it, Viking fan. If my Saints are out of it, I will pull for the Vikings, due to the great give and take and class on the DN and CSC. I guess I’m saying use the whole interview and please don’t pull out parts of quotes just to justify feelings. I know I would be p****d if the shoe was on the other foot and have been many years. So….maybe I’m gonna wear out my welcome here on the DN, and for that I’m sorry because you have alot of great fans, but Gonzo, dont use half quotes and truths to justify where you stand. Maybe look at where you stand instead. SKOL to the Vikings fans GEAUX SAINTS
p.s. should mention I saw the full Pereia interview on NFL Network yesteray
What you did not touch on was his comment that there was more than one official review on that OT drive where it actually looked like the call on the field might not have been correct (primarily the catch on 3rd and long that first got them into FG range, but also less so the semi-fumble on the 4th down conversion), but simply was not definitive enough to overturn. In other words, had the officials on the field called an incomplete, the review would have also gone that way.
I kinda half feel bad, because you can really beat yourself up over this stuff. I rewatched the 2nd half of this game on NFL replay last night as well, and … man, did our team look REALLY good except for the d@#n turnovers. Even on that final drive that ended in the INT, we had amazing plays from Chester, Adrian, and Favre to Berrian and Rice (that pass to Rice was particularly beautiful). Take those turnovers away, and it was a 3 and a half game stretch (2nd half chicago, giants, dallas, saints) where things were just clicking like nothing else. If we’d just not had that 12th man penalty, or won the coin toss, I think we would be the favorites for hte Superbowl right now.
Sigh.
Lets face it puddnhead
Your not going to get any love from Saints fans. The game is over and they won so now they want to brag how they kicked our butt. Of course the whole game they were scared to death because we were in the lead or it was to close for them to be comfortable. Congrats to the Saints for now, it will be short lived after Manning carves them up. They rely on turnovers, they did a good job this year on getting them. The problem is it’s not something that’s always going to be there. They caused most of them against us, but a couple of them were are own fault. I’m looking forward to playing them again this coming season. I just hope we do a better job a hanging on to the ball.
I know
That is why I’m trying to distance the whole discussion from this particular game. It’s over & ntothing can be changed, so why dwell on it specifically.
I am sincere that I am troubled by trends in the game. It’s not just he increased focus on achieving victory by inflicting injury (instead of just playing better), it’s also the increased emphasis on stripping balls over making tackles, aka the “opportunistic defense.” The Packer game where they stood up Adrian on purpose & a bunch of packer sjust ripped at the ball (wiht clay matthews coming away with it) was a good example. Trying to hurt Favre is an example of the game becoming more like boxing, and going after AD like that is an example of it becoming more like … mugging. Although I’m giving examples where Vikings were the victims, it diminishes my enjoyment whoever indulges in it — it just happens that it was the vikings that i’ve been watching.
Football has always evolved, I understand that. the development of the forward pass & the end of the so-called “dead ball era” I think made the game better. I think these latest strategic developments — while usually “legal” and so I understand why teams do them, thre was definitely nothing wrong with what the Packers did to AD, let’s be clear about that so the trolls don’t smell the read meat — still diminish my enjoyment of the game.
They should ban Gregg Williams from the league
Besides, MMA has an opening for somebody to fight Herschel Walker.
Gregg Williams is a coward and an animal.
I'd prefer we not go too far on making this just about Saints and Greg Williams
I think he is a guy who is doing exactly what he is being asked, being paid to do: figure out a way to win, above all else. “Winning is not everything, it is the only thing.”
If you are mad about his and think “if you can’t beat them, join them” is the proper response, then I think nothing stands in the way of making that so, except maybe our coaches’ and players’ consciences. But if you think this style of play truly is wrong, then the only way to solve it is to get the NFL officials to penalize this stuff more severely and consistently. I take Pereia’s comments as a shot across the bow of NFL defensive coordinators that this will be the case going forward.
p.s. by "wrong" I meant a bad path for NFL football to go down
“wrong” in the sense of making it a less beautiful sport; making it more like boxing in the sense that physical maiming of human beings is actually the goal, not just a consequence. It is not “wrong” in the sense that it is completely outside the bounds of current rules. It pushes the envelope, but it is not completely outside of it IMO.
football is close enough to a blood sport already
part of me is sickened that I’m a fan of it
As a Saints fan my beef with Williams
was that he blitzed too much. It’s debatable whether the collective hits unleashed on Favre really affected his throwing or the Viking game plan. Instead it allowed a high 3rd down completion rate and led to huge chunks of yardage being gained.
As far as coming out and saying he hoped the QB wouldn’t get back up. It’s a stupid thing to say publicly, but if you don’t think that EVERY defensive coordinator secretly hopes the other team has to go to their second string QB your crazy.
Teams used to be able to rough up receivers more, hold longer, hit them harder. But since the NFL has gone to extremes to protect them too, coordinators are left with trying to “concuss” QB’s to disrupt offenses. Blame the league if your looking for a villain.
Other thoughts. They didn’t call a roughing penalty on the high/low hit because the Saints player didn’t go to the ground first AND then lunge at the QB per the rule. It looked violent, well because it was…it’s football.
Question. On the QB roughing penalty where Brett hands off and turns to “impede/block” a Saints lineman… What ARE the options for a defensive player in those moments? Assume the fetal position? Stop playing altogether? Politely ask for the QB to move? I understand the need to protect QB’s…high ratings! But they’re slowing chipping away at what made this game great.
It's a rule
I don’t like it either, I hate Tom Brady and the rules this league creates to protect him, but a rule is a rule and it should be fairly enforced. That game it was not, and it would’ve prevented a turnover that could’ve made the difference in the game.
As a Vikings fan, Vikes didn’t deserve to win this game. See my other posts and you’ll realize how I feel about this. But the Saints were NOT the better team on Sunday, and they’re going to get steamrolled against a Colts team that knows how to eat weak secondaries like the Saints for breakfast.
i feel that because they were giving so many
Opportunities on our behalf that neither team “deserves” to win because they did nothing with the turnovers. we should get the feeling that the saints should’ve won by at least 10, but since the score was so close the refs stole her from us.
If the saints ended up losing after 5 turnovers then they absolutely deserve to lose.
by koooolaid1087 on Jan 28, 2010 3:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Should QBs be fair game after every handoff?
Because every team will be down to their backup QB after week 2 if that were the case.
by princelyfrank on Jan 30, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
What jared Allen got flagged and fined for
was less obvius than that it is just one of many bone head moments that cost us.
Once again the fumbling, bumbling Peterson cost us a 14 poit swing. Not to mention a possible chance in overtime in Chicago to give us home field advantage cause he has to be a hero and try to break off 3 guys instead of go out of bounds and keep the drive going. how he cannot look to where his QB is handing off from on a simple one yard plunge is pure foolishness. if this continues do what thye did to Slaton and bench his butt! I am sick of it!
Why Favre was afraid to run for the extra 5 in front of his face baffles me. Tho he hasn’t run mch all year and his nature is to throw. But he too should have recognized the moment
by CitrusFLViking on Jan 28, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
Don't blame it on Peterson
Berrian fumbled, Harvin fumbled, Favre threw 2 INTs
Not Baffling
Favre had been so beat up that it was hard for him to walk off the field. Does anyone think after some off the shots he took that no one was going to try to mangle him and force a fumble if he had run and even tried to slide?
It was not going to be a chip shot field goal, even if Favre had run.
Favre was certainly mistaken not to run for it, but his running ability at the time was poor, and emotion probably got the best of him.
5 yard run
It would be interesting to know how much his ankle was bothering him at that moment
After being battered by the New Orleans Saints in the 31-28 overtime defeat, the 40-year-old Favre struggled to dress in the locker room.
He winced as he put a tennis shoe on his left ankle, which was injured in the third quarter when he was high hit by Saints defensive tackle Remi Ayodele and low by defensive end Bobby McCray. But Favre had a question for nearby reporters about the hit: "Did it look bad?"
Told by one reporter that it looked terrible, Favre acknowledged that he thought he had broken his ankle.
"I can’t even move," Favre said, adding that he felt 49 years old.
GW learned defense from the same person as Leslie Frasier
They both learned the game from Buddy Ryan and it’s get the QB first and foremost
Now i remember some of those great purple people eater defenses of the 70’s
And the Bears defense of the 80’s
And the Giants defense of the 90’s
And the Ravens defense of the 2000’s
they played the exact same way when it’s win or go home you do what you have to
I dont believe for a second the vikes fans would be upset if they did this to Brees and won
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 28, 2010 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
The Colts will destroy the Saints.
They won’t turn the ball over 5 times and the Saints need that to win. They just hit the Vikes on a flukey day.
Colts by 10 at least.
Hard one(loss) to swallow, thats what she said.
Standards and Expectations
A couple things come to mind…
First, Pereira needs to learn to shut his pie-hole. The time for that sort of thing was DURING the game. An NFL officiating VP, making that statement in public, can’t do anything but tarnish the reputations of the NFL, the referee teams, and the Saints, all needlessly. I say needlessly because nothing can be done about it. The game is over. The Vikings lost. Everyone’s moved forward, whether they wanted to or not.
Now, it isn’t like we need Pereira to know what happened…. we all saw it, but we’re used to the ref’s doing their cherry-picking on penalty calls. Sure, it’s annoying, but we (Vikings fans, Saints fans, fans of every team) kinda hope and assume that in the long run, it balances out since sooner or later, it happens to every team.
Second, the Saint’s D-coordinator’s statement was much more interesting, and I sincerely hope it’s posted on the Viking’s bulletin board and locker room so that they can look at it every day for the next few years. Because here’s the thing….
I love a good, hard, smash-mouth, violent football game. I hate the way the NFL has watered things down, but I understand why and I can see the good points to it. The important point, however, is that every team and every player on every team, knows this and is expected to deliberately moderate their play accordingly. It’s actually lessened the vehemence of rivalries because it’s more clear now that after the game, everyone’s friends with most everyone else. It’s a business, and a player could be on the biggest ‘rival’ team next week. It happens all the time, and it’s led to a more professional attitude amongst NFL players and franchises. Little by little, the real team rivalry passion is left to the fans to wallow in, while the players and franchises put on a great show.
On the field, what normally happens is that the moment the QB releases the ball, that second, any defender that’s headed towards the QB will slack off, pull up, try and lunge to the side and avoid slamming the QB full force. Not because the game is more gentle, but because there’s no point in drawing a penalty for roughing the QB unnecessarily, and these guys are professionals at heart. Many of them hang out together in the off-season, they don’t live the rivalry passion that the fans do.
So that’s what the Vikings were expecting when they walked into the Saint’s stadium…. but that’s not what they got. The Vikings played it clean, and in return, the Saints were going for blood, against a team that they had no reason to create ill will against except that they wanted to win at any cost. The Vikings O-line expected that they were dealing with professionals and when the ball left the QB, the Saint’s D would re-oriented, pull the tackle, slide to the side, whatever it took to avoid gratuitously smashing into to Favre….
The Vikings were wrong.
And it was blatantly obvious all game long because a few hard hits can’t be avoid and are going to happen. But Favre spent almost every play on the ground, slammed there, even though he wasn’t sacked once. This isn’t normal in the NFL, not now with the rules the way they are, and the professional attitude the way it normally is… That the refs ignored it, and let it continue, highlights their bias even more.
Out of all this, I can draw a few conclusions;
1) The Vikings weren’t meant to win this game, and as long as they gave the refs an excuse to ensure it, weren’t going to be allowed to win it. At least one of those turnovers would have led to 3 points, and a Viking victory before overtime.
2) The Saints deliberately targeted Favre all game long, and the Vikings didn’t know it was coming. Really, they should have figured out it wasn’t an accident by the half, but they didn’t. Maybe it was just a bit unthinkable in today’s NFL that a team would behave like that, without ever having been given prior cause.
3) Hopefully the Vikings realize it now, and next year they, and every other team who had their QB targeted like that through the year (I’m not such an ego-maniac to think that if they did it to the Vikings, they haven’t done it before), will remember this, and be waiting to return the favor when the new season begins. The Saints might want to take out some insurance on Brees, because personally, I wouldn’t bet a single dollar that Brees makes it through the 2010 season without being injured.
4) Finally, I want to make it clear… I’m not complaining about the game being too violent, and I’m not even complaining about the crappy officiating. And honestly, while I do think the Vikings should have won that game, they lost it by fumbling and throwing interceptions, and a team with that many turn-overs shouldn’t expect to win the game. As I said to a Saints fan in another post…. I just won’t forget. And I’ll be sure to make sure that the matter is brought up again next season, here and in other blogs, so that the Vikings don’t forget either.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
by DCPurple on Jan 28, 2010 11:31 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
Look how long it took....
to expunge the taste of the Giant NFC Championship playoff loss, and the earlier Cowboy loss…..but we did not forget and we did exact our tit-for-tat on both….
So I think NO will definitely have something to face when we meet next year….No mercy…no “gentlemanly” game from our D….no sir!
I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...
by vikingfanfrom afar on Jan 28, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
I will say this, if I saw my QB getting hit like that late
I would’ve done the same to theirs. Not at first but when it became a habit yeah I would step up and plant a facemask in the small of brees’s back. Chances are nothing is going to happen but he gets teh shit scared out of him. I’m still not looking to injure the man but if they are going to scare tactic my QB I’m sure as hell going to bring it on theirs. I’ll take a foul for it as well then later that night I’ll sleep like a child.
It’s football if you can’t dish it back you need to get out fo the way.
LOOK...CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS DON'T TURN THE BALL OVER
whether it should have been 4 or 5 turnovers it doesn’t matter. You don’t turn the ball over that much. I have looked at the fact that we let 30 some odd seconds just run off before the 2 minute mark and the play calling, berrian open in the flats and/or that farve could have ran for 5 yards. The absolutely terrible PI call in overtime and even the questionable holding call on allen. the forward progress given on the 4th down play….you can go on and on. 12 men in the huddle and all the other bull crap we can point to that made the difference in the game even with the turnovers and it still comes back to the same thing….A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM DOESN’T TURN THE BALL OVER 4 or 5 times. PERIOD. As mad as I am about all the other bull crap, I am more made about that.
Championship teams have MORE than competent coaching staffs
Which the Vikings don’t have. 12 men in the huddle after a timeout. That’s seriously dumber than shooting yourself in the leg at a night club, only I’d rather do time in prison than lose the NFC Championship game.
And I don’t know if anyone has seen this video: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/9547/video-peterson-addresses-fumbles-favre
But Peterson is BLOWING OFF his fumbling problem. His words “That’s not nothing that really concerns me at all”. While he avoids using double-negatives the rest of the inteview, he continues to put blame on players trying to hit the ball instead of hitting him. ATTENTION ADRIAN: THIS IS THE NFL AND DEFENSES ARE BEING COACHED TO CREATE TURNOVERS.
Seriously, what has to happen to get the message through his thick skull that he’s going to bury my franchise at one of their peak seasons because he thinks it’s unfair that players are “tackling the ball” and not tackling the runner? I’m getting so sick of his lack of responsibility to protect the ball, as well as recognize the problem, that if the Vikes were to trade AP, I would be ok with it.
I think that is the most concerning thing about AP. I am a Packer fan but geez I love watching that guy run. When he gets that head bucking, you better look the hell out! BUT, he continues to make comments like that implying that he doesn’t feel there is a problem. THERE IS A PROBLEM. As long as he feels this way, you can coach him up all you want and nothing will change when he gets out there. He is very sloppy about how he holds the ball, I see it exposed quite a bit when he’s running which is why he’s got the problems he does. Granted some of them (the one in the first Packer game for example) would happen to anyone…but quite a few were avoidable. Its the same issues that plagued Ahman Green and Tiki Barber…its fixable and is not even a hard fix. I even know what the correct way to hold it is and I never played the position. If he keeps up that attitude though, its going to cost him some money and then it should get through his skull!
selectively quote much?
rough transcript.
No. That’s not nothing that concerns me at all. I look forward to working more on during the off season. Especially with my running style how I’m so agressive so the majority of the time they’re hitting at the ball instead of trying to hit me. So that’s something I’m more aware of now, and I’ll do a better job coming into the season.
I've heard that before
I believe he said something almost exactly the same LAST offseason, and look how much he worked at it and fixed it. I’m more than concerned about this problem for the future.
Saints better look out
Gonzo wrote:
“Good luck trying to get away with that crap against Peyton Manning, Gregg, considering that a) the Saints’ defense actually has to get to Manning first and b) call me crazy, but I’m guessing that so much as looking at #18 sideways in two weeks will be enough to draw a flag, never mind trying to go all Shawn Eckardt on his lower legs.”
I would also expect that the Colts O and D lines will be ready and willing to retaliate in kind against any late hits on Manning, unlike the Vikings’ lines.
Vikings were more concerned
with finding ways to shoot themselves in the foot by dropping the ball on the ground, as well as bringing too many men into the huddle.
Anyone
That has played the game, knows that once the QB lets go of the ball, you can’t drop the hammer on him. That’s not just in the pros, that’s Pop Warner, Junior High, High School, and College.
I was as aggressive a player as anyone when I played in High School, but I knew the difference between a cheap shot and a good, clean hit. Yes, I got over aggressive and got flagged from time to time, but it wasn’t something I did on a consistent basis.
The Saints were hitting Favre late consistently throughout the game. They KNEW what they were doing, per their defensive coordinator it was part of the game plan. Favre stood in there play after play knowing he was going to be on the receiving end of cheap shot after cheap shot. I wonder how Brees would have performed under the same circumstances? My guess is not very well, as he wasn’t throwing a very good ball during the game as it was.
The Minnesota Vikings - Undefeated in the Playoffs at Lambeau Field!
Bottom line.
It’s amazing one of the worst coaching mistakes in NFL history was made, yet all the vitriol is directed at the NFC Champions. The bottom line is the Viking coaching staff was exposed as un-Super Bowl worthy…and you just signed him to an extension.
Leaving AP in against the NFC Champions when Chester was available was idiotic. It was obvious Peterson was breaking down like a school girl in her first high school play yet Coach Brad kept trotting him out there. You guys were lucky it wasn’t a blowout!
Not rolling Favre out when it was obvious the NFC Champions were trying to shake up him calls in the question to make the simplest of adjustments. Max protect? Nah, we’ll just let them beat him purple, hey it’ll match his uniform. Instead the same predictable plays were called asking him to stand in the pocket. EVERY team will copy us next year if the statuesque-like legend dares to return.
I won’t even get into the second to last huddle of your season…
The hard truth is that more despair and sorrow awaits Minnesota as long as Childress roams the sidelines.
by TigerPaw on Jan 28, 2010 2:47 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
The bottom line???? The hard truth????????
Please child, go back in the hole you crawled out of!!!!!!!
I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...
by vikingfanfrom afar on Jan 28, 2010 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Try telling Dieon Sander that the saint are the best team
Why are you guy here any ways. I use to think Yankee fan are obnoxious. I have to rethink that. The saint fan have just beat them out.
I hate the Saints
Many of their fans annoy me, too.
by medicineball on Jan 28, 2010 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
one of the worst coaching mistakes in NFL history was made
With all due respect … this was simply one of those stupid little things, hardly the worst mistake ever. They took a timeout and discussed two possible plays. They only had 30 seconds. Three assistant coaches then huddled with separate groups to changed the personnel for they play called recently. The receiver & tight ends coaches got the right message, but the RB coach somehow thought the other play option was called, and sent in Tahi when he should not have.
This all had to happen in less than 30 seconds. Sometimes these things happen. If our RB coach made the worst mistake in the history of the NFL, then the history of the NFL is very pristine indeed.
I’m sure the RB coach feels absolutely miserable about it as it is, and crucifying him on internet boards is not going to achieve 1/100th of what he will inflict on himslef for the rest of his life. So … let’s let up on him, ok?
oh i get it
i didn’t see you also wrote this:
…and you just signed him to an extension
and also you are a saints fan. So you don’t have a clue what you are talking about at multiple levels. You actually thought this was Childress’ mistake. Since the reciever and tight ends coach both got the play right, and childress and bevell both immediately looked at the RB coach on the sidelines … it’s pretty clear you are clueless about what actually happened.
Please stop poking your nose in our business. this is hard enough to take as it is. You take the phrase “sore winners” to a whole new level.
I bet he knows enough to realize that throwing more money and years at Childress was pretty damn stupid...
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 28, 2010 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
Could be worse
We could have thrown more money and years at. . .say. . .Mike McCarthy.
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by Christopher Gates on Jan 28, 2010 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Touche.
Personally, I’ll take McCarthy over Chilly, but you’ve got a point.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 28, 2010 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
McCarthy is working with the youngest team in the NFL for 4 years in a row. Chilly with an All-Pro veteran team in need of an All-Pro QB to win everything, and they got one. Both watching the Super Bowl.
news to me that you guys never thought you were better than us, never believed you stood a chance agianst us on nov 1st, that you aren’t over at acme bemoaning that you didn’t get a chance to meet us in playoffs, because you were SO sure you could kick our butts, even in the metrodome. Now I hear that McCarthy has so much worse team than childress.
Huh, learn something new every day i guess.
Sure do.
I, for one, learned on this thread that some people think that defenses attempting to strip the ball and trying to hit the QB signifies the coarsening of football, the loss of entertaining football, and the decline of western civilization in general.
Silly me. I thought it was just a bunch of guys trying to win a game.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 29, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
Come on puddn. None of us thought we were better then you guys, or at least none of the guys who know a little something about football. We just thought our chances would be much better a third time around. We finally had a healthy Clifton, and while he isn’t great he wouldn’t have given Allen 4 sacks like Colledge and Lang did in the previous two games. Having Tauscher would have been big as well, as I’m not sure how much Edwards would have done against him. For those two reasons alone our chances would have been improved against you guys.
Looking at how our season ended though I don’t think we would have been able to beat you though. It would have been a shootout and you guys would have won that shootout. Your defense would have been able to put up much more of a fight against our offense then our defense would have been able to do against your offense.
McCarthy’s team isn’t as talented as Childress’ though. Though I think you know that.
by packallday555 on Feb 4, 2010 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you for the voice of reason
There are some people on this board implied that we as vikings fan are bad sport. We can not take a lost.
I have been a vikings fan since i was ten. I have seen all the good and bad. I even live through the Les Stekel year. I have seen everything. I can take losing. There have been way too many cheap shot on Favre. If some people on this board can’t see that. You have to question yourself if you really a vikings fan.
I dislike the Saints
I never liked the Saints ever since I saw them narrowly beat my Eagles in the 2006 divisional round. Sean Payton always came off as a smug, arrogant little man. Now I have reason to despise their defensive coordinator also.
To be honest, the Saints team never really was all that great this year. Their defense is actualy quite poor in most respects except for the ability to force turnovers and play well with the lead. The offense was good, and Drew Brees is a legit top 5 quarterback, but any team with a good front four pass rush will really slow them down, as Minnesota and Dallas showed.
In all honesty, I hope they have a rude awakening in Miami. I hope Peyton Manning torches them for 400+ yards and multiple touchdowns, and I hope Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis tee off on Drew Brees like there’s no tomorrow. I don’t think Greg “cheap shot” Williams and Sean “angry hobbit” Payton deserve to win a Super Bowl after that uninspired, and frankly, offensive, performance against the Vikings.
by MyronBales on Jan 28, 2010 4:19 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
we beat the iggles 48-22 so get over it
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 28, 2010 7:04 PM CST up reply actions
As an Eagles fan you should know better
than to think Williams is a dirty coach or a cheap shot artist. If you remember correctly he was the D-Coordinator for the Redskins for a good number of years and you never saw that sort of stuff out of him. That is why I don’t buy all this stuff, and furthermore if you needed until now to dislike the guy after playing against his defenses for years then you should be ashamed of yourself as a fan of the NFC East.
by sduncan24 on Jan 29, 2010 6:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
There is a reason
There is a reason teams don’t take cheap shots at opposing quarterbacks like the Saints have been doing. They will get theirs. It’s unfortunate that someone like Drew Brees or Reggie Bush will likely have to pay for it though…
"Karma"
In the seventies the Steel Curtain also played to injure their opponents, including some fouls even under the more relaxed rules of the time which went uncalled and unaddressed. The Cleveland Browns became so incensed with this, Browns defensive end Turkey Joe Jones once picked up Terry Bradshaw by the ankles and “safety tested” his helmet on the turf. Let’s hope people who are violating the rules and attempting to injure other people through such violations are fined by the league, because “karma” has a way of evening things out for previously unpunished sins.
I was hoping
Somebody picks up Reggie Bush and flings him into the sideline, right into Gregg Williams.
by medicineball on Jan 28, 2010 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
Fine?
So now that the official has admitted that the officials on the field that day blew that call, will there be a fine levied against McCray?
Jared Allen didn’t get a flag thrown on that hit a couple of years ago against Matt Schaub, but it seems like the NFL fined the crap out of him for it later and it wasn’t near as flagrant as McCray’s hit was. If I remember right, he had to go meet with Goodell as well.
The Minnesota Vikings - Undefeated in the Playoffs at Lambeau Field!
Manning might get more protection next weekend than Favre did last because it's the Superbowl...
… but it’s unbelievable to me that anyone thinks he’d get more protection from the refs than Favre on any given Sunday. I thought the refs did a poor job all the way around in the Vikings/Saints game, but aside from one blown call, I don’t think it had much to do with Favre.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 28, 2010 8:11 PM CST reply actions
low hit
is it a low hit above the knees? it seems if you watch closely he hits Favre above the knees in the thigh areaand as Favre crumbles to the ground then naturally your gonna fall on his lower legs after…just wondering how the rule is stated?
A little luck never hurts
To be a Superbowl Champion you need a little luck along the way. Most of the the good teams are not separated by much. If you watched the game you probably would agree that most fans not connected to the Vikings or Saints probably came away thinking that the Vikings were the better team. That being said the Saints caused some turnovers and the Vikings caused a couple of them on their self. The luck I refer to was the overtime coin toss. Lets face it with the rules the way they are it’s geared to be a offense game. You don’t see many 10-7 games in this league. I don’t know the exact stats but the team wins the coin toss wins the game more than the team who doesn’t. The league needs to just play a full quarter or go to what the college teams do. If they want to keep it sudden death they should make it so that the 1st team to score a TD wins. Two teams bust their butt for 60 minutes & a guy who’s uniform isn’t even dirty determines the outcome. That’s just wrong.
3 plays on Favre
first 2 were called and the last one was not.
1rst one- Brett hands the ball off and is crushed a split second later, now let`ssay instead of getting blown up like rag doll he would have used his savy and try to block the def end? it would have been a heads up play by Brett to make sure the defender did n`t run the play down from behind so if Brett is standing in the way to the ball carrier he has every right to try to get by him or through him so that was a bad call in my unbiased opinion.
2nd one- Aikman did n`t like it and he`s unbiased if anything he might be more biased in protecting the QB.
3RD one not called, we did n`t see if the defender was pushed causing him to lose his balance also it appeared he hit Brett above the knees at his thighs but then fell onto the back of his legs.
I kind of feel that none of them should have been called and during the game the calls really favored the Vikings but they failed to take advantage of the generous calls and the game went into overtime, eventually the laws of average works out and in overtime the calls went the Saints way and they took advantage. Saints got a favorable spot on 4th and 1 that looked short and I have no idea where Leber committed pass interference but had the Vikings taken care of business there would have been no overtime.
Aikman
If anything Aikman is biased towards not protecting the QB. He seems to be firmly in the camp that QB’s are being overprotected in today’s NFL. Maybe he’s just bitter that he had to suffer all those concussions.
My recollection
That on the running play Brett was not trying to block but rather had taken a step back field away from the flow of the play. McCray did not try and follow the ball but instead chose to blow him up. That is why it was called and why it was cheap. If a QB is trying to block by all means hit him but if he is taking himself out then don’t be cheap.
by SouthernNorseman on Jan 30, 2010 6:36 AM CST via mobile reply actions
but Brett is known for blocking
how many times have you heard the announcer gush" and Brett Favre is leading the way" so if they want to call those type of penalties then qb`s should be restricted from blocking. Let`s say McCray would have avoided Favre and instead Favre would have chopped block McCray? we would have heard oh my 40yr old Brett Favre just took out McCray. play was clean in my book.
Favre Mr Class himself
http://www.viddler.com/explore/RobertLittal/videos/2/
Brett could have done this to McCray. I don`t blame McCray for not taking a chance.
Maybe he should have
You know, since you guys seem to advocate that kind of thing.
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by Christopher Gates on Jan 30, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
here`s a downfield block from Favre
just goes to show that Favre was n`t out of the play after handing the ball off in the Saints game as there`s a good chance he was going to race upfield to block, McCray made sure that he would n`t…big time!!!
Breaking News
Vikings, in 2010, will replace the Viking horn with a “Bunch of Sour Grapes”. What was Jared Allen paid to do? Hit Drew Brees! Just because Allen didn’t get to Drew but McCray did get to Favre, don’t be mad. The hits were clean, but please, talk about how they weren’t during the Super Bowl. It just makes you look pathetic. Football is a rough sport, pull up your jock strap and quit complaining.
This is OUR year!! Yea, I said it. Who Dat!!!
Maybe Allen should have hit Brees
The same way McCray was told by his coach that it was acceptable to hit Favre.
Low. . .late. . .and from behind.
Of course, if that sort of hit would have happened to Brees, a) Brees would have been snapped him half, and b) Allen would have been flagged, ejected, and fined.
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by Christopher Gates on Jan 30, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry guys....your clouding the issue....
ziggy19 and Big and Easy, fact is that the intent was to hurt – not sack, not stop, not block…but to hurt! Until the pressers and etc. making the clear for the world, I was willing to give the extra hard hits on Favre the benefit of doubt on the Saints side surely this was not their intent I was thinking….Chalk it up to overzealousness, heat of the moment, the game, whatever is what I thought.
It was evident though that the intent was to do more than just play smashmouth…the intent was indeed to injure Favre, laugh it off, win at any cost. On knocking the ball out of Vikings hands as was attempted/done all game long against the Vikes (with success I might add – combined with their own “fumble-itus” was THE game changer for me outside of the missed roughing the passer penalty against Favre) can live with- is football as we all agree on….The Vikes need to protect that ball, period….
This hurt the QB though is an issue starting with the coach – where to draw the line – also even more so as a player on the field. As in the military, even more so, it is at the end of the day, a very small circle of people doing NFL business out there season in season out. I do not believe the intent of the game is to injure someone either for a game, a season, or for life….If the coaches are advocating this and the players doing it, totally destroys the intent of the game…In my mind that is to play a fair, hard-nosed game of football, and may the best team that day win….
In any case, this is the DN site, and we can and should complain as much as we want, since it is our site. Now thise that disagree may post as you two have done, and is your privelege to do, or you can stay away and not hear the noise and statements/points made…Could it be that you protest a BIT too loudly, covering an inner sense that there is a grain of truth in what we are saying – thereby “clouding the issue?” Think on that a bit….
I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...
by vikingfanfrom afar on Jan 30, 2010 9:09 AM CST reply actions
I agree the intent was to hurt
to intimidate him, to make him throw early, to make him make mistakes and in my opinion the hits were clean I mean this Ain`t Detroit for God`s sake this is for the Super Bowl. 3 hits in question and 2 were called wow that`s some conspiracy and on the flip side 2 hits on Brees that were not called that were far worse than the hits on Favre in terms of bordering on illegal.
In the NFL's opinion
The hits were not only illegal, they resulted in $20,000+ in fines. In my opinion, your team is a bunch of dirty cheating frauds.
by medicineball on Jan 31, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
OK, let's make plays on the QB two hand touch
for next year. This year, it’s still tackle and hit. If Allen had tackled and hit Brees, like he planned to do, there would be no story here. If you don’t want your QB hit, protect him. That’s what the Saints did and we won. I love Favre, even when your team hated him, and no Saints fan wants a player to get hurt, but DE’s are paid big money to tackle and hit the QB and ours earned their money on Sunday. The only Viking not complaining is Favre. Maybe that’s because he’s really a Saints fan.
This is OUR year!! Yea, I said it. Who Dat!!!
It would be interesting to hear Favre's perspective on the hits he took...
But I think he is taking the high road on this subject (and getting healthy/recuperating from the game), and staying above the fray. Not sure, but one thing IS for sure with me. I will always be for smashmouth football, but NEVER for intentional injuring my opponents. I do not care if is for us or against us. You win games but lose your morality – almost Machivellian in nature – the end justifies the means…..not what I want sent to onlookers, especially the young ones.
Perhaps out of frustration that we just beat ourselves on Sunday, plus the blatant overreaching by your D throughout the game when it comes to hitting to stop/drop, many here want to see the same done to Brees by our guys next time we meet – take the 15 yard penalties (they won’t call all them will they?) and maybe he DOESN’T get back up (mission accomplished?)….I doubt seriously that any of would want that – hard hits and him eating some grass, you betcha!
As far as Favre being a Saints fan, I wonder what he would say to that today, after having gone through that “extra-zealous” (OK dirty – let’s call it like it is, no sugar coating) effort of some of your players. I think he too will be rooting for Manning and the Colts to rip your faces off out there in the SB, deal you some of the dirt you dealt to him, and see the Colts exact that karma that is coming to the Saints in front of the nation…..I will be watching in anticipation. Sure you will too. Let’s see?
I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...
by vikingfanfrom afar on Jan 30, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
No.... I'll be busy that day. Ha LOL
Look, think what you want. Like I said, we didn’t want or go out there to purposely injure a player. The Saints did go out there to stop the best player on the Viking team. No late hits, just real physical football. The longer you talk about this, the worse you look. Take it like men. You can’t drop the ball all day and expect to beat a good team. Better luck next year. Enjoy the Super Bowl.
This is OUR year!! Yea, I said it. Who Dat!!!
by Big and Easy on Jan 30, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
We will be enjoying at NO expense. Sorry but the win you had shoudn’t give you a whole lot of confidnece going into the game. We slost for sure, but nobody with any sort of football iq is going to say that the Viks didn’t beat themselves that game.
You are the prime example of a homer that can’t even admit to his team playing dirty. It’s not like we don’t expect you to change teams over that. Had our team done the same we wouldn’t switch either, but I know I would at least express disapproval. Anyone that says injury wasn’t the intent either didn’t watch the game, hates Favre, is a blind homer, likes to see injuries, or has a lower standard for how players should act.
Just See this
Without the Saints in the field, Vikings would have won. But since the Vikings were playing an opponent, that opponent (which happens to be SAINTS here) made the Vikings beat themselves or make the SAINTS win. Don’t you see?
I know the the loss hurts, especially how close it is for Vikings to win. Remember the cries and tears of SAINTS fans over the years. They even had to cover their faces with paperbags. Please feel good a little bit for the SAINTS. It seems that the SAINTS will win the super bowl 37-28.
Flame away, but watch this first...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 30, 2010 4:30 PM CST reply actions
Saw it...NOT IMPRESSED....
Changes nothing…..If you support what the poster of this vid is poinging out suggest going to their site to let them know…If you do not, guess you save time…. : )
I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...
by vikingfanfrom afar on Jan 30, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
great video
that pretty well ends any theory that the refs helped the Saints, also shows how QB`s like Manning and Favre get the benefit of the doubt over other QB`S.
Starting Monday
Can you guys stop whining about your loss? You deserved it for going with the Diva. Make your bed, lay in it and all of that.
Nah, we need a couple more days.
This is a Vikings site, what are you even doing here?….If you don’t like all the crying then leave.
Normally Mike tries to back up his refs but he was upset with the obvious blown calls this time
Saints got away with cheap shots on Warner the previous week too
Since Goodall and the owners are mainly concerned with making $ and Favre and Warner are big ratings draws, I am surprised they didn’t come down heavier on the Saints
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
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