Brad Childress...Bad Coach, Incompetent Dictator, Or Both?
by Ted Glover on Nov 2, 2010 9:27 AM CDT
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Brad Childress addresses the media at Winter Park Monday.
Back in the 1920's and 30's the roots of WWII were sewn with the emergence of an evil thing called fascism, among other things. The most notable fascist leader, and one of the most evil tyrants of all time, was Adolf Hitler. But not a lot of people know about his trusty sidekick and comic relief, the Italian leader Benito Mussolini. Mussolini was an incompetent, bumbling idiot who tried to make Italy the next Germany, but he sucked at it. When he invaded puny Ethipoia and other North African countries, the Italian Army was so incompetent it had to be rescued by the German Army, led by Irwin Rommel's Afrikacorps. In 1943, he was essentially voted out of office by other members of the Italian government and was areesrted. He was a dictator, and that's not supposed to happen, but he was so freaking incompetent that the yes men he put in place to do his bidding had him arrested.
He was, in many respects, the most comically incompetent dictator of all time.
Until yesterday.
Yesterday Brad Childress, in a fit of pique not seen since the French Revolution, released, and made a martyr of, the enigmatic Randy Moss. What were Randy's major transgressions? Well, according to Brad Childress, he's not the type of player that he needed in Minnesota. Really? An improvement of 7 points a game and a marked improvement in the offense isn't what was needed? No, of course it wasn't. How silly of us to think that.
You see, Brad Childress has an aversion to this thing called 'scoring', which is closely related to this other cosmic concept called 'the forward pass'. Brad 'il Duce' Childress lives in a fantasy world where players wear leather helmets, the forward pass is against the law, and he's never wrong.
Brad Childress will be respected. Do you understand?
Childress released Moss for speaking fondly of his old team, the Patriots. In a post game press conference, he said he missed them and that Bill Belichick was a great coach. If that's the standard, then Brad Childress must fire himself, because on his Wednesday press conference, he said:
"I have a great deal of respect for Coach Belichick and the way he's formulated that program in the last 10 years and I've told him so. He has a mentally tough team that are great competitors that's played the way I hope one of my teams plays one of these days."
You know, il Duce, that's exactly what Moss was saying, in his own roundabout way. He's played in your system and in Belichick's system, and yours has been found wanting. His teams are mentally tough because that's the aura the coach exudes. You come off as a high school checkers player going to play Gary Kasparov in a Loser Leave Town Chess Match.
And the only way your team plays like his team is if Bill Belichick coaching your team.
You see, dissension isn't allowed on Planet Duce. Like the Italian mafia, if you violate the Chilly code of Omertà, you end up face down on the waiver wire. A quick list of Chilly whackings, for no other reason than, well, Chilly says so:
Daunte Culpepper. (In all fairness, I agreed with this one. Culpepper was acting like a low level capo that wanted to be boss.)
Marcus Robinson, WR. Sleeps with the fishes on Christmas Eve, 2006, for voicing displeasure at the team's 6-9 record.
Randy, Moss, WR. Because he spoke the same truths Chilly did three days earlier.
Matt Birk, C. He pretty much said Childress was the reason he left the Vikings. Birk was a perennial All Pro and was offered more money to stay in Minnesota, but he went to Baltimore.
Matt Birk. He went to Harvard
I'm sure there are more, but the one thing these guys had in common (with the exception of Culpepper, who just went nuts--allegedly) was that they were team leaders who dared to say that the Emperor has no clothes.
Poof. Gone. Whacked.
In a desperate bid to save his season, il Duce went all Nurse Ratched by trying to neutralize what he felt was his Patrick McMurphy. All McMurphy was doing was shedding light on what needed to be shed light on--Brad Childress has no business being an NFL coach
However, what I think he's done, if it's any indication from these boards, my personal feelings, and my dad's gem of a quote (he waived Moss? Can the Vikings waive Childress?), is that he's turned us all into Chief, and we're going to rip the sink out of the floor and walk out of this damn asylum.
Chilly, you have no clue what the return of Moss meant to a lot of Vikings fans, and what we saw a wrong being made right. You've now elevated yourself to a level of dislike reserved for Norm Green and Red McCombs, and in one fell swoop, you've alienated your locker room, your fanbase, the ownership, and reduced the chances of the Vikings getting a new stadium and staying in Minnesota. You see, fickle Minnesota politicians won't fight for a new stadium when the fanbase isn't clamoring for one, and they were coming around, slowly but surely. First Favre, then the NFC Championship game, then the return of Moss.
Now this. You putz.
Way to go, il Duce.
Thanks for nothing.
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Oh god, now Childress is comparable to a murdering fascist dictator?
I’m gonna puke.
Please stick to writing about football. I know you are trying to capture eyeballs, add flair to your writing, whatever. But this is too much..
No, an incompetent, bumbling idiot
The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota
"A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed."
"Pull your 84 jerseys out, man. I think this is going to be a fun ride." Randy Moss, WR, Minnesota Vikings
Ok really?
It’s sarcasm where you compare something grossly out of line with something monstrously out of line. I doubt Ted really believes that Childress is as bad as Mousolini. However, it is humorous to think about it, because honestly to me personally it’s pretty damn tragic what Childress has done. I can understand him waiving Moss, I can’t understand him lying about it two hours before he told the team he’s waiving him. I can’t understand a lot of what he does at all.
It’s a writing style only a child would think he was seriously comparing the two in any way seriously. Like me comparing my ex to Hitler. Or my dog to Cujo…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Good point
Humor is allowed in America, the last time I checked. Besides, Childress is much more like Saddam, look at the moustache.
I would
ask you to duck, but it’s too late, the point of the post already flew over your head.
Both, for sure..
Please Zygi, fire his ass, make us all happy, and do what you need to to keep Randy.
by Runt of the Litter on Nov 2, 2010 9:34 AM CDT reply actions
Too late to keep Randy
But it’s never too late to fire Childress..
Nash don't lie
-Credit given to RMason, stolen by..er..permission given to GiantBehemoth
by GiantBehemoth on Nov 2, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
This is right on point
The 1st poster does not get it. I said something like this in one of my post. I did it in a comic fashion however.
Chilly needs to be fired
I don’t know if anyone has said this yet…
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Nov 2, 2010 9:41 AM CDT reply actions
One Error In This Post
Mussolini was able, after some difficulty, to subdue the Ethiopians without direct assistance from Germany.
It was when Mussolini tried to conquer Greece, Yugoslavia, and British-held North Africa that Hitler had to step in and help his incompetent little brother out with German troops.
But Childress? Yeah. Incompetent and a control freak.
by Midnight Rambler on Nov 2, 2010 9:42 AM CDT reply actions
Yah, but in all fairness, Ethiopia’s main use of military technology was mainly wooden shields, spears, bows and a small number of outdated rifles. Against the machine guns, artillery, and poisonous gasses employed by the Italians, saying that Mussolini had any trouble with Ethiopoia is grounds for a joke.
You're right.
Mussolini DID conquer Ethiopia. Particularly because they were a broke and beat-up nation, and the Italians had the talent in their army to get it done. It’s kind of like the Packers and the Vikings, really.
Wait… we DID beat the Packers, right?
Oh. I guess we shouldn’t insult Mussolini then…
Nice history lesson
My fahter served with the 442nd after their campaign from France to Italy. One of their final missions was to to get mussolini before the Italians did. They were late and only got to the site of where he was strung up after being shot.
OH! Football-hmmmmm??? Maybe we could get some of those 80 yr old 442nd (God bless em) vets who are left to help in a mission to get Chilly out of Minnesota.
by CitrusFLViking on Nov 2, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
They would just get there late
and see Childress strung up…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
So True ....
Oh you forgot Darren Sharper … Oh yeah .. he’s old and washed up … Chilly knows talent and what is good for this team .. He release Moss But keep Barriman.. This Stupidity takes the place of the Hershel Walker trade…. If Childress really knew or cared what was best for this team he would retire..
by VikinginCalifornia on Nov 2, 2010 9:53 AM CDT reply actions
That one
It had more to do with his play on the field than his opinion of Childress. He had lost a step (even with all of those picks for the Saints last year he was not a strong tackler) and was not a great fit for the cover 2 to begin with. That said, our safety play has been awful since he left so it probably was the wrong move.
Chilly, you have no clue what the return of Moss meant to a lot of Vikings fans
See, this is the part that everyone needs to let go of. The return of Moss in 2010 was never going to = the high flying offense of 1998.
I’m sorry but Randy Moss is no longer the player he once was. One thing that has been lost in all of this is that there is a reason he’ll be looking for his third team of the season and his fourth of his career.
He’s an amazing talent, but he plays when he wants to play. He says what he wants to say, and he does what he wants to do. There’s only so much of that behavior that any coach can tolerate.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
by NMVike on Nov 2, 2010 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Ofcourse it wouldn't equal 1998
after that year, he was defended heavily. So when he isn’t catching the ball he’s drawing defenders away from the other receivers. And what is wrong with that. Berrian isn’t gonna get doubled up to free Harvin and if Harvin is doubled Berrian can’t catch.
As far as behavior, just how much of Childress’s are the fans and the players supposed to take. When he let 35 secs and 2 TO’s go in the GB game he was showing that Farve or Moss or Peterson no longer had his trust.
Fire Childress, let Frazier have the job. Or this season is over, if it isn’t already
by stillnotover98 on Nov 2, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
You're missing something, too
Of course Randy Moss isn’t the same player he was ten years ago. However, paired with returning WR Sydney Rice, Moss could have been integral to a much better aerial attack than they will now have.
Consider a receiver corps of Moss, Rice, Harvin and Shiancoe. That’s a dangerous mix.
Now consider a corps of Rice, Harvin, Berrian and Shiancoe. How terrified is the defense now?
Who replaces Moss: Berrian, Camarillo, Lewis, or Baskett? Which of those guys draws consistent double coverage, and triple coverage in the red zone? Which one makes the safeties back up a couple steps? Which one puts a nervous lump in the defensive coordinator’s throat?
Yeah, Moss doesn’t have the speed or stamina he used to. Yeah, he gets pissy and takes plays off. But the guy’s still got great moves, fantastic hands, can still leap a couple feet higher than any cornerback. He can still separate with three giant strides from most CBs. You know who that sounds like? Chris Carter in his later days. Not as physical, but just as clever, just as skillful, and darn near as valuable on the football field.
Of course, that’s assuming you’ve got a head coach that isn’t an autocratic, unimaginative putz. Mussolini? Of course not. But he’s not a good coach. He’s more like a self-important tax accountant.
the one thing I didn't miss is that we were 1-3 with Randy Moss v. 2.0
So all that double coverage he demanded and lanes that he opened up didn’t accomplish much in the grand scheme of things.
Now consider a corps of Rice, Harvin, Berrian and Shiancoe. How terrified is the defense now?
It had everyone terrified just one season ago…
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Did you read the article?
Before Moss we averaged 14 ppg
With Moss we averaged 21 ppg
Maybe it didn’t translate to wins like we’d hoped but that is on the defense allowing more points, not the offense failing to score. Or do you expect Moss to stop the opponents from scoring as well?
With Rice we averaged 29 last year
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
And we had a QB that committed 7 turnovers in 16 games
as opposed to one that has almost twice that in less than half the games.
The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota
"A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed."
"Pull your 84 jerseys out, man. I think this is going to be a fun ride." Randy Moss, WR, Minnesota Vikings
1-3
Against the Packers, Cowboys, Jets and Patriots.
We beat the Cowboys, which we should have, and had close games against the Jets and Packers. The Patriots are better than I thought they would be, and we lost a tough game.
Moss still changes opposing defenses, and you cannot deny the effect he had on opening things up in the middle of the field.
Sure, but a year can make a big difference
A year ago, Bernard Berrian wasn’t an unannounced retiree. A year ago, Brett Favre wasn’t hobbling around on a bad ankle. A year ago, Sydney Rice had a good hip. A year ago, Shank wasn’t struggling with a hamstring problem.
Adding an aging Randy Moss to this literally lame crew was far from a perfect solution, but it did make the receivers far more dangerous as a whole. At least it kept useless Berrian off the field. Talk about taking plays off…Berrian is taking his career off! When was the last time he caught a ball and didn’t immediately fall down?
Yes, the Vikings were 1 and 3 with Moss. But if you look at the offensive point total, they averaged a extra touchdown with Moss on the team. And I think we all agree that the Vikings were screwed out of the Green Bay game by incompetent referees.
Except...
Look, Moss wasn’t going to be 1998, because in 1998, no one had a full concept of what this thing was. People didn’t scheme for him, double cover him 100% of his playing time, write up entire plays meant to neutralize him. Many, many players have an explosive season when they have that ‘surprise’ factor. It’s like Moss when he first went to New England- people thought he was washed up. That’s why he went all 1998 all over their asses… all over again.
People KNEW this time around he WASN’T washed up. They weren’t going to be fooled thrice. And- Moss didn’t have the offseason to prep with our offense. It was going to take a few games to really get him inside.
While we lost against Green Bay and New England, let’s face it- our offense was MUCH better in both games than in the games previous- even better than against Detroit and Dallas, our two lone wins. Harvin was free, Berrian was making his catches. In reality, Moss catching or not, it was really our D that let us down against the Pats, and Moss catching or not, it was the refs that blew a close Pack game.
Yes- like all of you, I dreamed of Favre-Moss meaning 10,000 TDs, all 50+ yard catches. It was to be insane. Teams would weep, defensive coordinators would soil themselves, women would faint. Chicago wouldn’t even get on the plane to come and play us. The Pats would beg for him back, and we would say, “nana nana boo boo! no backsies!”
…but then I saw what happened, and I was STILL ok with it all. Why? Because of the Moss affect! It was similiar to what we saw last year with Ray Edwards and Jared Allen. Allen was a hungry beast and teams would constantly double team him. And then… Edwards would tear Romo’s head off. Why? Is it because Edwards was better than Allen? No- it was because teams panicked over Allen so much they gave Edwards opportunities. There were several games last year (not this year though, sadly) where Allen had very little production- but if you watched, you saw his mere presence did wonders for the rest of the D-line.
Moss is that kind of player. Production or not, stats or not, he was boosting the offense, at least on the field. Their general production went up.
And in a TEAM sport, that’s what matters- not the results of one player, but the results of the TEAM when that one player is added to the mix. Past that, really- nothing matters.
by KJSegall on Nov 2, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK, but
we’re STILL LOSING. Re: your last paragraph, I couldn’t agree more, and frankly it argues against your thesis. It is indeed a team sport, and the team is 1-2 without Randy Moss and 1-3 with him. His impact can’t possibly have been that great, regardless of the coverages he’s drawn and Harvin’s shooting way up in the fantasy scoring charts.
If we’re going to be 2-5, isn’t it better to be 2-5 without a childish boor in the locker room infecting the youngsters than to be 2-5 with that same childish boor? Especially when you’re expecting Rice back in a couple weeks? Yes, the offensive weaponry of Moss, Rice, Harvin, Shiancoe and AP on the field simultaneously is impressive, but it shouldn’t be necessary to go 9-7 and try to sneak into a wild card spot. And the way Favre’s been playing and Chilly’s been coaching, there’s no guarantee they’d find a way to harness all that potential, anyway.
I don’t feel all that strongly either way about this, but it’s not crazy for NM Vike to point out that some people are reacting overly strongly to Moss being waived, and in all likelihood it’s because some people thought he was the answer to all our troubles, and that the reality is that he most certainly was not.
by MCA1 on Nov 2, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The problem is we’re 2-5, but with Moss we’re much more likely to get more W’s than L’s. Seriously, the offense was woefully inept before we got Moss. I mean, with him we are averaging an extra TD a game. You know much an extra TD a game would have meant in those first few games? It would’ve made the difference between 1-2 and 3-0.
Honestly, I don’t even understand how you can willingly argue that Moss didn’t do anything for the team. His stats weren’t amazing, no, but he opened up the offense so much more than it previously was. We had a much better chance of making the playoffs with Moss than we do without him, cancerous or not. I think the players would take more W’s than they would L’s.
Couple responses
1. Nowhere did I claim that “Moss didn’t do anything for the team.” He didn’t do enough, or rather his being there wasn’t enough to get us over the hump of actually, you know, winning more football games.
2. Small sample size. So we scored more points with Moss. It was over 4 games. Not to mention that in the first three games, no one expected much offense against N.O., given Favre’s rustiness, and we turned it over 7 times against Miami and Detroit. You’re not really crediting him with a full 7 pts/gm difference, are you?
3. Does having a better chance of making the playoffs with him really justify, on its own, keeping the cancer around? He may do more longterm damage, as well. Are we really so win-at-all-costs that we’re OK with retaining Moss when his improves our chances of making the playoffs from 5% to 10%?
I’m still of a mind that outright waiving the guy was pointless, Childress is pulling a stupid power play here and he’s more the root of the problem, and that even if the catering story is true, Moss should have been punished rather than just shown the door in such completely bungled fashion. And I recognize that the coverage he’s been getting has allowed us to work Harvin more (note, however, that Shiancoe is now but an afterthought). But let’s not overstate his importance. It’s not like we just let AP go, and it’s not like we’ve been winning more with him than without.
Shank is an afterthought
Because he has to be kept in to keep Favre upright long enough to complete a pass.
Yeah, that's true.
We didn’t win enough with Randy Moss. Because, you know, he missed those tackles on Danny Woodhead. And he made the officials call back a real Shiancoe-TD in Greenbay.
Face it, with Moss drawing double coverage, and letting Harvin get as open as he’s been all year, we were actually in games. There’s no way we’re in them without Moss. Take out those 7 points in the games we lost with Moss. Its a completely different ball-game. Those points make a huge difference.
Am I creditting him with the full 7 points per game? … Uh, yes. Since, you know, it happened AFTER we got him. The reason Favre had so many ints in Miami and Detroit was because he had nobody to throw to. Nobody who was open, anyways, because Harvin is NOT a #1 wideout. He’s a slot reciever. And that allowed defenses to cheat up, and we had no response. And now, once again, we have no reliable deep-threat to stretch the defense.
I think, maybe, you’re understating his importance if anything. Defenses respected Moss’ ability enough to open up lanes for the others in the offense to have bigger games than they would have, or even did have, without him.
So Moss was behind Harvin's kick return for a TD, then?
How’s this for a fact: number of punts or kicks returned for a TD before Moss joined team: 0. Number of punts or kicks returned for a TD after Moss joined team: 1. There’s 1.75 ppg you’re unjustifiably crediting to Moss, right off the top.
Fact: In the Dallas game, the offense scored 17 points and gained a grand total of 75 yards of offense on their scoring drives. They got two INT’s from Henderson to get them to the 16 and the 30, and a punt return to the Cowboys 49. How much of that field position and the highly improved chances of scoring are you crediting to Moss?
Fact: Number of red zone turnovers against Miami: 2. Number of red zone turnovers against NYJ, Dallas, GB and NE combined: 0. If you attribute that all to Moss/no Moss you’re being willfully obtuse. I’ll be conservative in your favor and call that a 6 point swing, taking away another 1.5 ppg from the “due solely to Moss’ presence” category. So now you’re down to, what? 3.75 ppg at most? Don’t forget the two turnovers inside the 30 against Detroit, too.
Yes, he’s helping, but I’m now done arguing with people who think he was the sole reason we were scoring more. The game’s not that simple. And It’s not like we were blazing up and down the field at some amazingly increased rate with him, or something. Flawed statistic, but we were averaging 328 ypg without him and 334 ypg with him.
See above
Not that much better. We turned the ball over 8 times the first 3 games (including two picks at the Dolphins goal line and one at the Lions 19), but just 7 times in the next four games. I don’t give Moss credit for that. Favre, Green Bay excepted, has finally found some accuracy and timing. I give Moss some, but not that much, credit for that.
Someone make the case, based on what we’ve actually seen in 4 games with Moss, that he’s critical to us going 8-1 over the rest of the season to have a reasonable expectation of making the playoffs. I don’t know that there’s a great case to be made there.
8 and 1? Oh, puh-leeze!
First, let’s all be realistic about this Vikings team. In its current condition, and with its current personnel, this is not a team that can rip off a string of wins. They have talent, but they also have glaring deficiencies. Pat Williams appears to be washed up. Same with Berrian. Favre is struggling. McKinney is a liability. Loadholt appears to be in his second rookie season. Of the skill players on offense, only Peterson and Harvin are playing at a high level. Favre still has a golden arm, but he runs like he’s wearing ski boots.
Adding Moss to the team was definitely a big positive. It allowed Harvin to return to the slot, where he dominates. It backed up defensive backs for Peterson and drew coverages off the other guys.
The case for keeping Moss around centers around the return of Sydney Rice. Assuming (I know, it’s speculation) that Rice returns to something like last year’s form, then you’ve got Rice on one side with Moss on the other. Mainly, as I said before, you avoid having useless Bernard Berrian playing on the other side. Even taking plays off, Moss was a huge improvement over that.
Now, without Moss, the return of Rice is not so significant. With largely useless people at the other wideout, defenses will simply put two people on Rice, and shut down the passing attack. Then they stack the middle, and Peterson is running into traffic jams again.
Hate to say it, but that’s it for the Vikings offense this year. Childress and company lack the imagination to use Joe Webb as a WR. The most physically gifted man on the team is going to stand around on the sideline all year long.
I’m in agreement that we’re not going 8-1 and making the playoffs, either with or without Randy Moss. And I agree completely with your pessimism generally. That colors everything I’m saying here – it’s not a total hopeless cause, and Moss helped. But it’s not out of the realm of rationality to not want to keep that kind of immaturity around when there’s little chance it’s going to really make a difference in terms of making the playoffs or not. He can’t help the defense, and he can’t make Childress into something he’s not – a coach capable of rising beyond occasional competence.
Absolutely no way to scientifically prove that
Without die-hard proof, which is pretty much impossible to obtain when you consider the large amount of influencing factors involved, you’re basically talking from an unsupported position by saying we improved due to moss in our points scored average.
Okay, you want to explain to me how we managed to improve in our PPG
then, if not through Moss’ presence drawing away at least one extra defender from players such as Percy Harvin, who saw a notable increase in production once Moss arrived? Because, honestly, I’d love to hear it.
Especially considering we played more challenging defenses with Moss on our team than we did without him.
There are plenty of possible reasons
to complement the “Moss impact” and make it worth less than a full 7 pts./gm, many of which have been described here. Either you’re not willing to hear them or you’re not thinking creatively enough.
And for what it’s worth, NE’s defense is not the Pats defense of old, the Cowboys defense is terrible, Miami’s d is solid and Detroit’s is a lot better than it’s been in past years. And you might have noticed how the Saints stoned the Steelers a few nights ago. I’ll grant that the defenses have been somewhat tougher on average in the last 4 games than the first 3, but we shouldn’t overstate the case.
Really?
Because, I haven’t read any substantial claims that point to something other than Randy Moss affecting the outcome. The most plausible thing I’ve read on here is that the offense ‘gelled’ now, which, frankly, is a bit of a stretch, I think. I’m sure its part of it, but pretty much you can chalk it up to Randy. There’s no need to think creatively, especially with the answer staring us in the face.
Who’s overstating the case of the defenses anyway? I simply said we played more challenging defenses with Moss than without him, which is a fact, and we put up more PPG than we did before he arrived, which is also a fact. I’m spitting out facts here, I’m waiting to see some in return for your counter-arguement other than ‘Oh, no, you’re not thinking creatively enough, it wasn’t just Moss.’ Let’s see the proof then.
Basically- saying that we’re losing with Moss and therefore should cut him basically could apply to anyone on the team at this point…
BTW- everything I say now is in light that apparently, Moss is a f*cking punk.
Straw man
No one’s said that Moss should be cut simply because we’re losing. We’re just saying it’s not completely batshit insane to waive him because of his off-field antics, given that it’s not like we’re world beaters with him on the team right now.
by MCA1 on Nov 2, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, it is completely batshit insane to waive him over the off-field antics
Especially less than ONE MONTH after trading for him. You discipline a player for that you don’t give him walking papers. That just sets a bad precedence.
Not really though
No passes caught over 40 yards STILL even after adding him and scientifically and statistically speaking it’s virtually impossible to prove that he was responsible for any increased production on Percy Harvin’s part. Nope, he duped us good and didn’t do jack squat for the team other than to (by his inaction) allow Favre to get blasted in the face after that failed catch on the PI call in the Pats game. Nice one, Moss. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Yeah..
its Moss’ fault that the offensive line didn’t pick up a blitzer that got Favre sacked. Mmmkay. Now we’re just grabbing at straws.
Wasn't a blitzer
Our All Pro Guard just got spanked by the guy across from him…and the guy isn’t even a starter…
But...
…it is his fault that he doesn’t make an effort at all during most plays, and it is his fault that he’s a jackass. ;)
skirting the issue
Still doesn’t make it Moss’ fault that Favre got hurt anymore than it is Peterson’s fault for not scoring on the play immediately preceding the injury.
BTW
There’s several stories starting to surface that many players in the locker room were already tired of Moss’ antics and support the decision to cut him.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Here’s one from PFT.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Charlie Casserly is citing creamed corn as the reason why Moss was released.
This is the funniest thing I’ve read in 2 days…
Casserly also
tried to say there was dissension about Moss in the NE locker room that was quickly denied by everyone in the organization and every other reporter as well.
Casserly is as incompetent a ‘journalist’ as he was a GM. I think it stems from his aversion to this thing called ‘talent.’ When he sees he, he reacts like one of The Infected to a living person.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Seriously
Charlie Casserly is the absolute worst journalist/pundit to ever appear on NFL Network. His draft coverage is perhaps the funniest part of the year.
That Reads Like
Something out of the National Enquirer or Weekly World News. I’m not buying it. Most reliable news sources are saying that Randy’s teammates are upset with this move. Until I hear something more concrete, I’ll stand with that.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
Moss plays when he wants to play and you believe what you want to believe
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
That Lazy Bastard!
Has only caught 153 TD passes in his career. 2nd only to Jerry Rice.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
How many has he caught for us this season?
2. And no passes caught over 40 yards still, even AFTER getting Moss. :(
He has played in all of
4 games. You wanna play the stats game? How many catches and TDs has Percy Harvin had since Moss was here? How many did he have before Moss? How’s the offensive points situation right now? How was it before Moss?
Seriously. Moss made the team better. I don’t wanna catch you moaning about how shitty the offense is now, because we’re apparently better off without Randy.
The offense has gotten better because it has had more time to gel
Don’t you remember the slow start for the offense last year? Difference was that last year we started with browns and lions.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Yea, right
They got Moss because they said we needed a deep threat to stretch the field, for Favre to have someone to heave it up to and to have a redzone threat. Last year we had an easier start, but last we year we also had Sidney Rice to fill those roles. Well guess what, Rice isn’t close to returning and now we still don’t have someone to fill that role.
But now that we’ve “gelled” we don’t need those things! Hooray! Bring on the Cardinals!
I still don't think the Offense has "gelled" as you put it
But it definately is starting to come together.
You guys need to remember that the Oline did not play together throughout training camp and the preseason.
They have used 3 different centers so far.
Favre did not attend training camp at all.
Harvin missed a ton of time due to a death in the family, migraines and a night in the hospital.
When Favre did get to town, he has had so many different combo’s of receivers, it was hardly ideal for establishing timing. From the Walker situation, to aquiring Camarillo on the eve of the season, to signing Baskett 2 weeks into it, to trading for Moss, to getting Percy re-established, etc…
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
btw
Should have kept Walker. He’s a 10x better WR than Baskett.
We can come up with all kinds of excuses for why the offense wasn’t working at the beginning of the season. Truth is, we won’t know until Sunday. But I, for one, am not excited about Harvin drawing double teams and not lining up in the slot anymore, Peterson facing more 8 man fronts, Bernard Berrian being our deep threat and Hank Baskett seeing the field again.
Not excuses, fact.
It takes time to build chemistry and an identity. This year’s team cleary is having trouble building/finding either. Last year Favre’s magic stole the show while AP by and large took a back seat. This year, the magic hasn’t arrived yet and the team is struggling to lean on AP to carry the load.
In fantasy football or video games you can plug people in at random and hope for the best. It doesn’t work that way in the NFL. Not having that time together in training camp and early in the seaon has haunted this team all season. Throw in the fact that none of the rookies have yet to make an impact and you end up at 2-5.
There has been some light at the end of the tunnel as of late. They actually led at the beginning of the game against the Pats. I think they will continue to get better, especially now that Rice has been cleared to return.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Exactly
But people are going to think whatever they want. Moss apologists aren’t likely to admit that he did little, in the end, to actually help the team, directly or indirectly.
Seriously, he did help this team. Look at Percy Harvin’s stats before and after Moss. What this team NEEDED was a #1 WR. If you like the tandem of Berrian-Harvin-Camarillo/Lewis/Baskett better than Moss-Berrian-Harvin, and would have soon been Moss-Rice-Harvin, then I don’t even know what to say to you, because I saw that Berrian-Harvin-Camarillo/Lewis/Baskett tandem for the first three weeks, and it was absolute garbage.
Lol Not even.
It shouldn’t take a team 5 weeks to start gelling. Even last year, it didn’t take more than a couple games. I guess we’ll really see in the upcoming weeks just how different defenses had to play with Moss on the field.
You're right, it shouldn't
But then again the best front 4 in football shouldn’t have gone 3 games without a sack. Nor should the best run D in football give up 100 yards to BenJarvis Gay Ellis. Nor should Brett Favre be the 3rd worst rated QB in the NFL. Nor should Sidney Rice wait until August to have hip surgery. Nor should Chris Cook tear both meniscus’. Nor should Ced Griffin tear his other ACL. Nor should the team be 2-5. Nor should I need to continue to make my point….
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
And I'm not exactly sure what your point is to be honest..
It sounds like you’re trying to.. blame the defense for the team’s predicament? I’m not exactly sure what that has to do with Moss’ effect on the offense.
He's saying
It shouldn’t take a team 5 weeks to start gelling.
That things that shouldn’t happen do happen and have been all year.
Unfortunately, I think Frost’s point is that if it hasn’t happened yet, it very well may not happen at all.
If you are trying to argue against Moss
Maybe don’t mention the part where he has scored 2 TD’s. That is still 2nd on the team.
BTW, Harvin only had 1 TD in 3 games before Moss, 3 in 4 games with Moss. You may call it coincidence and still insist that there is no measurable benefit to Harvin from having Moss, but I say you’re full of it.
And you still haven’t ONCE addressed the FACT that with Moss, we’re averaging 7 more points per game than before we had him.
1. Small sample size
2. 8 turnovers before he got here, including multiple goal line picks against Miami. Just 7 turnovers, in more games, since.
3. You forgot the part where Shiancoe had twice as many receiving yards before Moss got here than after. It’s not like 100% of Harvin’s increased production has come out of thin air and not at the expense of other skill players.
4. Favre didn’t play preseason and the rust was obvious for a couple weeks.
5. We’re still losing.
You guys need to stop tossing out the “We’re 7 pts./gm better with Moss than without” line. I’d say it’s more like 3-4. Which is not necessarily something to sneeze at, but don’t get so righteously bent out of shape when someone questions if it’s been a godsend to have Randy back. It hasn’t.
1. 16 game season. Small sample sizes come with the territory. Truth is we’re talking about 25% of the season with Moss and 19% without him, still substantial.
2. You don’t think him being on the team made a difference in turnovers? Safeties playing 20 yards off the ball instead of 10 didn’t have any bearing on that?
3. Shank would still be producing just as much if we didn’t have to use him to block for Favre so much. That’s more on our line than Harvin or Moss.
4. Favre did play in the preseason, just not all of it. But Favre’s “rust” was obvious as recently as 1 week ago so that is hardly an excuse at this point. Or did you forget how “well” he played in week 7 against the Packers?
5. We’re still losing because our defense has suddenly self destructed and that is unrelated to Moss’ presence. We’re scoring more but we’re also allowing more points per game. Moss can only affect one of those numbers and that one was affected.
But we will see on Sunday how effective our offense is. And if Percy doesn’t play, that is not an excuse because we knew he was hurt before Childress made this decision.
Are you really asserting
that Moss himself has been worth 7 points per game difference in offense? There are too many factors at play.
I’ll not bother to retort to the above, so as to let us agree to disagree, other than no. 3. You can’t have it both ways. Moss shows up and Harvin’s numbers go up and it’s all because of Moss. Moss shows up and Shiancoe’s numbers plummet and it’s all because of the o-line. You can’t really believe that, right? It’s not a zero-sum game, but it’s not like our passing game can just draw all the additional yards for Harvin out of nowhere.
Please, I'm still waiting
Do us all a favor, and list out these factors you keep citing, because I’m certainly not seeing them.
Shiancoe’s numbers have been down since the N.O. game. And, frankly, they would be going up if he hadn’t had a rightful TD taken away in GB. Which, I would like to point out, he was open for because they had to worry about, you know, Moss near the endzone. Didn’t really see Shank getting open often after that first half in N.O.
didn't shank get dinged up in week 2?
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Yes
It was severe enough that he was still limited in practice for the practice week leading up to the Jets game (after a full bye week off).
But I retract my statement about Shiancoe being kept in to block more. Mostly, because I now reject your statement that Shiancoe’s production suffered when Moss was here. Check out these fun little numbers I found.
Percentage of Shiancoe targets per passes thrown:
w/Moss: 16%
w/o Moss: 18%
Do you really think 2 fewer passes thrown his way per 100 attempts means that Moss was killing his production? His receptions per game dropped, but only about 1.5 catches (and it wasn’t for lack of trying apparently) and if it weren’t for a poor ref’s decision, he would have an equal number of TD’s before and after.
i think you may be refering to MCA1's comment here...
But I retract my statement about Shiancoe being kept in to block more. Mostly, because I now reject your statement that Shiancoe’s production suffered when Moss was here.
cuz i didn’t say that. but, there are 494 comments on this fanpost. so, it’s an easy mix up, imo.
btw, i meant that if shanks production had declined, then maybe it could be attributed to him having it linger and affect his play.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
YEP
I have been saying that since the news broke. Getting rid of Moss isn’t the worst Idea but the manner that Chilly handled this was incredibly stupid.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow."
John Wayne
by just another viking on Nov 2, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Well the report now is that Zygi was the main person behind bringing in Moss in the first place and not Childress.
On paper it looked like a good move, but obviously it didn’t work out.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
At least he wasn't waived on Xmas
As to Wilf being the decider, might that not be damage control? Circle the wagons?
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
Which makes sense
and sounds accurate. Moss apologists and Chilly haters won’t want to hear about messy things like facts, they don’t want the truth to get in the way of a good “hating on” fest. LOL
Yeah, it was probably a defensive player
that wasn’t happy with Moss. I can practically guarantee you that alot of the offensive guys aren’t too happy with this. Most notably Percy Harvin.
I'm always skeptical of unnamed sources
For all we know it was a practice squad guy that has been with the team for a couple weeks. It’s one thing to use an unnamed source for breaking news (i.e. a trade, release, signing, etc.) but it’s another completely to use them for gossip and behind the scenes stories like that one.
Besides that, the idea that Moss would allegedly do that but no veteran would stand up to him is highly suspect to me. I don’t doubt that something happened, but I do believe that it’s being exaggerated.
A practice guy would be an idiot to say STFU to Randy Moss all alone. No, it was a guy with cred.
Anyway, according to the caterer (teh guy’s now on the record in an interview about the lunch), even though Favre said nothing, apparently he gave Moss a very dirty look. So at least some other players expressed themselves in different ways.
Who said anything about a practice guy saying STFU?
I’m talking about him as an unnamed source. It would be very “I’m a nobody” to anonymously go to the press with something like this days after the fact.
As I’ve said elsewhere on this thread, it was probably Pat Williams that threw out the STFU. That is 100% something he would say under those circumstances.
And for what it’s worth, he’s “on the record” with Charlie Walters…
Who said anything about a practice guy saying STFU?
Umm … Seriously? Like … you? In the very first sentence of the post I was replying to?:
For all we know it was a practice squad guy that has been with the team for a couple weeks
Please read before replying
I’m always skeptical of unnamed sources
For all we know it was a practice squad guy that has been with the team for a couple weeks. It’s one thing to use an unnamed source for breaking news (i.e. a trade, release, signing, etc.) but it’s another completely to use them for gossip and behind the scenes stories like that one.
Thank you for your “time”. Next time, please read the entire post before responding.
Of course you'd think that
It supports your contention. You’ll take any story that doesn’t support your theories as being a “shaky” story and any that support your Moss love-fest as totally accurate OMG! :P
Well, that's him
I accept the story, because, honestly, there probably were players that didn’t like the situation he created, or even his attitude towards the caterers. My point is that the players being fine with Moss leaving were likely those unaffected by his presence, because they aren’t even on the field with him.
Sort of like how Ray Edwards is a big T-Jack fan. Well, Edwards isn’t the one out there trying to catch balls from him.
i agree with all of this,
but did any of you read the column by Silver this morning. I hope that this is grossly exaggerated, because if not, i can understand why chilly might have got alittle angry. This might have been warranted?? if you have not read this, here it ishttp://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;ylt=Aqy9RQJXTMbJcRgsMB2_stPfgM6?slug=ms-mossbehavior110210 . Dont get me wrong i still want chilly gone, but if this article is true, randy’s behavoir was not tollerable!!!
Silver has a tendency to how…do i put it..be full of shit? He exaggerates everything practically. How in the world, if moss actually did that ,would other reports from more credible sources say the locker room mostly had moss’s back on this? i mean unless the vikings players were all not present or completely ignored something like that no way anyone would defend him as they did. It was probably a minor incident blown out of proportion like that thing with Brady’s Hair ,saying that lead up to the original moss trade.
Silver's fun to read
but if he actually was good at breaking stories, he’d still be at SI.
The best part of his columns are his songs (rolling with the Royals was great too, but he dropped that even).
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
all i am saying
is if this even half true than randy should be gone!!!!
by norsemenxpress on Nov 2, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Um, no
Why would you cut him over something stupid like that? Yeah, I’m sure it was an akward situation. But you don’t cut somebody for something like that. Discipline them, yes. Waive them? What the fuck, no.
No matter how they spin that
No one would cut a player for having bad manners, nor should they. This sounds like a convenient story for Childress, and it really plays well to midwest sensibilities (which I’m sure was Silver’s intention) but this was not the primary reason he was cut, if it had any bearing at all.
And think about it. If this was really why Childress was cutting Moss, why wouldn’t he cut him then?
Because there was a game to play on Sunday
Now that I think about it, the Friday thing might have actually been the reason Moss wasn’t targetted often on Sunday. That could have been his punishment.
But that sounds too sneaky for Childress. I’m probably giving him too much credit.
So you basically want to discredit any sources that don't agree with your skewed
…and frankly knee-jerk reaction here. Nice one.
What? Coming from theguy with the irrational hate for moss?
I’m not making stuff up when I said there’s guys in the locker room still defending moss and there is conflict of information.
First off if he was released for that incident then there’s something wrong with the NFL. Yes it would be poor manner but nothing discplinary action can’t address. So appearntly in this league driving drunk, getting to fights in a bar, accusation of rape, and even manslaughter doesn’t get you cut but complaining about food does.
Second, on the yahoo site, the same site that ran that article, has another article right next to Silver’s article on the front page that basically said the opposite of that one. In that one when they talked yo player they said they were confused on the cut and liked moss in the locker room. That article said players were mad at childress for the move.
So don’t make it seem I’m making crap up since I’m just pointing yo the contradictions between the stuff were hearing. Plus from your posts i see you’re just a huge Moss troll/hater who can’t seem to acknowledge that this guy isn’t as useless/horrible as you make him seem.
by lololol on Nov 2, 2010 3:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Not even a huge Moss hater
Just think that he doubly-screwed us now but 1. Not doing crap for us, 2. Not making an effort for a fan-base that once loved him, and 3. Being at the heart of yet another drama that doesn’t need to exist.
Yep, he really helped us, he’s really better than having a coach who cares about the team and who actually puts in hard work for it. Yep, he sure is. /eye-roll
He did do crap for us
Pretty sure he’s one of our better recievers on the season, even through just four games. Pretty sure he opened up the field for Harvin to have bigger games. Pretty sure we’ve put up more points with him on the team than we have without him. You can’t just discount. That’s your own bias acting into it. The fact of the matter is that with Moss on this team, we’ve scored more points than did before he joined.
I read that too, last night.
And at first I was appalled… and damn near almost wrote a FanPost saying ‘Bye Bye Randy!’.
But then, as others here have said, I gave it some thought. Why is almost everyone reporting that the Vikes are upset? That they have no respect for Chilly because of this? The biggest quote being circulated is from Leber, who claims that ‘no real reason was given’. But this article made it sound as if Chilly gave a reason- we want good guys who are good football players, and Randy only has half of that equation. That’s a reason… Leber wouldn’t have said there wasn’t a reason given if this article was 100% accurate.
Plus- imagine the Vikings locker room. Do you really think everyone would just let Moss get away with this? Sooner or later, some veteran would have had enough and shouted out, “Randy, shut the f**k up!”. Fat Pat… Kevin Williams… Jared Allen… Steve Hutchinson… hell, even Brett Favre, after a while would not have put up with this supposed nonsense.
It sounds like you and I are actually not that far apart (sorry if I just insulted you there lol). I was thinking same thing. But then I started thinking more: what if Pat, Kevin, Jared, Steve, or Brett did that? Moss was already playing halfassed, he would have been worse (Oakland II anyone?). And we would have paid more of his salary, and there would have been less likelihood of an irrelevant team (one that does not stand as much in the way of our dwindling playoff hopes) picking up the rest of it. And from reports it sounds like Harvin was coming more under Moss’s influence, that would have only been worse the longer it went on.
In short, I think things would have only gotten worse, could have only gotten worse.
Seriously
I can actually hear Pat Williams saying exactly that.
You think Moss is there for 4 weeks and suddenly everyone is afraid to say something to him when he is out of line? There are some well established veteran leaders on this team and that crap would not fly in front of them. This has “embellishment” written all over it.
ACTUALLY that was exactly the problem
No one was standing up to Moss for his disgusting and disrespectful behavior. From Tom Pelissero’s Twitter (he was IN THE LOCKER ROOM AT THE TIME):
“Bunch of people asking about @RealMikeSilver nugget regarding Moss, locker-room spread. Yes, it happened and the media was in there.”
“That’s one area in which #Vikings miscalculated. They thought they’d get a guy who would assuage to the existing locker-room leadership.”
“That’s not Moss, though. He returned to being the dominant male, so to speak. The guy who told an unfunny joke and people laughed anyway.”
“Was that incident the reason he was cut? No way. Just one example of the sort of personality Moss was. Stronger than anticipated.”
Look, this whole situation is a mess. But don’t try to say that Moss’ sickening disrespect to people wasn’t real and that “oh that’s not a problem, Vikings veterans would have stopped it” because they didn’t.
Moss was always going to be a time bomb. If the Vikes started going downhill, as they did, Moss was always going to say “F*ck it” and stop trying, stop being even a reasonable human being. The mistake was to ever bring him in in the first place.
And I have to wonder whether Favre, not Chilldress, was the one to force the move to get Moss in the first place.
So if the media was there when it happened
Why is this just coming out now and not last Friday? Silver writes it like some insider scoop but apparently there were lots of media members there at the time that have not mentioned it until now.
I still think this is being blown out of proportion because Randy was cut. If he was not cut, no one would have ever mentioned this apparently.
BS
It would have definitely come out at some point. You’re starting to come across as a bit desperate in your attempts to play this down, Cobra. Up to this point, I at least felt that you were trying to be logical from your own perspective but at this point, it’s getting a bit silly. More and more proof is coming to light about this douchebag. Glad he’s gone, oh so glad.
I am legitimately asking
Why this is coming out now and not on Friday night, or even Saturday? If this is as big of a deal as it’s being painted now, why was it not addressed sooner?
great point. it sure seems like a couple of things to me...
1. to try and cover chilly’s butt a little for his “arm chair coach knee-jerk reaction” in trying to appear like the head coach by waiving the guy he brought in three weeks ago for $5million to save his season, his reputation and his job.
2. i think the espn media whore tabloid machine just wants to milk this train wreck as much as it can. randy moss doesn’t like the chicken? (break to a kfc add)….randy moss wouldn’t feed this sh!t to his dog? (break for purina dog chow add)….chilly stands up to be all that he can be (break for pos-t-vac add)….you get the picture.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Yeah, now that I ponder this
you ever notice that this story didn’t come out until AFTER we heard Moss was being waived. Since Childress didn’t confront anybody over it, this includes the PR department, this story seems to reek of damage control.
Now, I’m sure it did happen. But its AWFULLY convenient that its suddenly come out now. Almost like nobody saw it as such a big deal at the time.
actually, that story didn't come out until after chilly was getting lambasted.
i also noticed that a week ago, the jen sterger thing popped up again, and reported that she was plannin on meeting with the nfl this week.
then the randy moss thing cropped up, and what do ya know, the jen sterger update has her backing off and saying that she will be planning on meeting them at some future date.
that seemed like someone is trying to time her meeting to get the most media coverage out of it (surely the whole moss fiasco would over shadow the whole dick-picting incident ).
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Well.
Chilly was getting lambasted once we learned Moss was being waived, so they’re basically the same time-frame, because they happened simultaneously lol.
But yes, on the Jenn Sterger situation, like Chris pointed out earlier in the year, she DOES have some pictorial in SI coming out. Needa get all the attention she can, I guess. . . Maybe it was a book. Idk. She has something coming up.
i dunno, the timing was basically after a LOT of negative chilly press.
besides, that incident is really something that wouldn’t go public, and it happened last friday. it just seems a little convenient for chilly’s defense and for ratings to me.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Media giveth and then media taketh away!
It is all PR. Especially the yahoo sports bits are incredibly biased and written by their stupid writers. Don’t believe everything these idiots say. They will write anything for a bottle of scotch.
“When Brad Childress talks to God
Does he ever think that maybe he’s not?
That that voice is just inside his head
When he kneels next to the Childress’s bed
Does he ever smell his own bullshit!
When the Chilly talks to God?”
Skol!
by Thor.in.your.side on Nov 2, 2010 10:28 AM CDT reply actions
This is an ill-considered and inept comparison
Based on this comparison, Ted Glover is the Brad Childress of sports writers.
You can’t even get the history right. At least read wikipedia before making a historical comparison. Having read this article, I feel a little stupider than when I woke up this morning. Stop drawing on history that you don’t understand to try to make yourself sound smarter. It ain’t workin’ dude.
by dkerfoot on Nov 2, 2010 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Normally I would never make such a caustic reply. BUT: If you are going to write an entire article villainizing someone as a bumbling, incompetent dictator, it seems to me you should:
a. Check your facts before-hand.
b. Be prepared to be treated the same way.
Puddnhead does an excellent job of highlighting the most glaring errors. I’d only add that if it hadn’t been for Hitler’s over-reaching, Mussolini would have probably still been in power until his death.
The bigger point is that if you find yourself comparing a football coach to a dictator and World War II belligerent, it is time to take a deep breath and count to ten, because you have obviously lost your ability to reason. If Chilly ever has a player taken out back and murdered, then I will be willing to reconsider your point.
Until that happens, you have exposed yourself for the same kind of “fit of pique” that you take Childress to task for. The only difference being that we don’t actually have any clear facts about how or why his decision was made. Sadly, you have documented your own childish tantrum all too well.
by dkerfoot on Nov 2, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank You
For the history lesson. You all need to forget about your wikipedia searching pseudo-knowledge and realize that the point that Ted was trying to make is that Mussolini was an incompetent fool, much like our current head coach.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
by BaldViking on Nov 2, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
because Bush is more popular than Obama now….besides, we’re not supposed to go with modern politics on this blog, remember? :P
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you have poll numbers to back that up, Shawn?
Because I’m pretty sure it’s inaccurate.
by princelyfrank on Nov 2, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
mmm...actually
it’s 43-45 Bush right now.
Last Gallup poll, not including the “enthusiasm gap.”
Yes, MSNBC heads are exploding.
But I did have a :P behind it. That does mean I was jesting at least a bit, right?
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
And that's the most you have to contribute to the point that was made?
Really?
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
You’re right. I really shouldn’t, and no doubt I’ll be mocked for it, but I hate it when people spout popular historical misconceptions like it is incontrovertable fact.
Mussolini was an incompetent, bumbling idiot who tried to make Italy the next Germany, but he sucked at it.The “next” Germany?!? Mussolini actually took power and transformed a fascist state while Germany was still a republic. Mussolini never adopted, never liked the central racist aspect of Hitler’s reich (the racial purity, Aryan superiority crap). Fascism in Italy was very different, purposefully different, than in Germany
When he invaded puny Ethipoia and other North African countries, the Italian Army was so incompetent it had to be rescued by the German Army
Most serious historians believe that the Italian army itself earned an unfair reputation. You draw a good point here, when Fighting under German command, they did better (particularly in Russia). Their problem was more that they lacked modern weaponry, and the leadership was incompetent (yes, this was Il Duce’s fault — he purged those with WWI experience. But ironically this was because he was too good at being a dictator, he could do whatever he wanted).
Sicily was already in Allied hands and preparation for invasion of mainland Italy was underway. He was deposed to facilitate capitualation talks with the Allies. This is a very common progression of events as a state collapses while undergoing foreign invasion. It happened to Mussolini not because he was incompetent, but for the simple fact that he was a dictator of a country under invasion, it has to do with the nature of dictatorship in the face of instability. World history has a bazillion examples of that.
In 1943, he was essentially voted out of office by other members of the Italian government and was areesrted. He was a dictator, and that’s not supposed to happen, but he was so freaking incompetent that the yes men he put in place to do his bidding had him arrested.
He was, in many respects, the most comically incompetent dictator of all time.
He ruled two decades, got his own way whenever he wanted (too easily, if anything), and was only deposed after a big chunk of his country was already invaded. There were four dictators in one country alone (Roman emperors in the year after Nero’s death) that were far more incompetent!.
uh, i think you forgot to use the sacracm font in that dissertation, puddnhead
oh wait…you are being serious when criticizing ted’s obvious parody. how do i know ted was just trying to go with the parody angle? well, for ME….the eric cartman image really drove home the point.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
LMAO!
Oh yeah, wikipedia is the first place I go to when I want to make sure my information is 100% accurate!
And Brad Childress is my pick for coach of the year…
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
See, that is what you call “irony.” The point was that Wikipedia is the lowest common denominator. It is the absolute minimum that even a lazy writer knows to consult before publishing an article. I suggested Wikipedia because I knew that reading a book would be out of the question for this “author.”
Oh and also because Wikipedia is actually quite accurate due to the current process of editing. You should read up on it.
“HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!” Oh gosh, I just hurt myself.
It's a blog
not a damn history lesson. The point he tried to make was indeed made. If you are so effing critical why don’t YOU put yourself out there and write articles so we can tear them down? Easy to take pot shots from the cheap seats isn’t it buddy?
by Jepp The Viking on Nov 2, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
FWIW I agree this has gone OT, and I played a big part in it. But maybe it is just my irritation with all the shit spewing on this site the last few weeks. Many people have been posting exaggerated, extreme, silly opinions. Start Joe Webb next week, anyone?
I guess losing brings that behavior, and this is the first time in this sites existence that the Vikings are starting to look like losers.
Losing is a state of mind
Starting Joe Webb though, that is classic.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
wikipedia
Surely You don’t think Wikipedia is biased? (Excuse me while I remove tongue from cheek.)
This " highly-respected authorative site" is, from what I’ve heard run out of some fella’s garage in California (a.k.a., the land of the fruits and nuts).
Wikipedia?
Actually, that’s not a credible source. Ask any college professor if he/she will allow Wikipedia to be used as a source on a paper. The answer will be “no.”
Depends on when Ted Checked Wikipedia last
As this helpful video demonstrates, wikipedia cannot be trusted at all times:
by PurpleSpectre on Nov 2, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Look it is certainly true...
… that there are things about this episode we don’t know. It is entirely possible Moss deserved to be fired. Childress might not be able or willing to explain every aspect of it, and that might in fact be done so that Moss can find another job.
But, even then, it doesn’t mean Childress is excused. We knew what we were getting with Moss. We still lost a third rounder for a guy who played for 4 games.
And moreover, with no facts on his side other than the rant in Boston, fans will never forgive Childress for this. Plain and simple. Based on the interviews of Vikings players I saw, that locker room is, at best, split about this. If Childress has lost the locker room and his credibility, even if it is with just a portion of the team, we are screwed.
And how are other free agents going to react to signing here? How are we ever going to land good players after this while Childress is coaching?
We can’t. Childress just has to go after this. There’s no way around it.
by HammeroftheGods on Nov 2, 2010 11:12 AM CDT reply actions
Either way
Plenty of different ways to deal with Moss. Chillie is sposed to be some Phsyc. major yes? The sad part is the NFL is a whore, Vick, Owens, Ocho and a Pac man and a whole lot of highly talented guys bring huge baggage with them. Yet the NFl makes huge money off these guys and thye will continue…as far as the Chilly he should have been gone after the NFCC 12 man gaff.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
It doesnt' really matter
it seems like Wilf did not want Moss gone and Childress acted on his own. Seifert mentioned it in one of his blogs. So, Childress still has his job, and will probably keep it. I will have a hard time watching the games for a while because I will want to stomp Childress’s head into the ground.
Moss was a big deal. Moss is a big deal to the people of Minnesota. Moss is a pain in the ass. All of these things were well known before Childress picked him up. Childress has no ability to work with people who do not bow down to him. Moss was garunteed not to be one of these people. Childress shoudl have known this before he ever even went after him. Childress is a terrible coach, and I wish he was no longer on our team, but it looks like Wilf is going to keep on working with him until the end.
The biggest issue I see out of this (because our season is in death throws right now) is that the push for the stadium will falter, and the Vikes will be playing in sunny LA next year.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Very soon it won't matter
I’m a Viking fan. I would prefer them to play in Minnesota, but if Minnesota no longer wants them, I’ll stick with my team, no matter where they go.
I’ve been away for a couple days (I think, things have been very hectic lately), I poke my head back up after getting the rest of the day off today to GO VOTE, and this is the crap I see going on with my Beloved Purple and Gold. Wow. Well, no one can say it’s ever dull with this franchise :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Same here +1
I’m a vikings fan living in chicago. It would be a dream come true if they somehow came to Chicago (this city’s size and demographic could easily support a second football team), but no matter where the team goes I’ll stay a fan. I could never root for the bears after hating them for so long.
Not Me
If the Vikings go somewhere else I will not follow them there. The most viable option for me is to quit watching the NFL all together, although two teams jump out at me to watch: the Detroit Lions and the Miami Dolphins.
I’m done with this team temporarily until they fire Childress. If they move, I’m done permanently.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
Were those NFL teams?
Dude, I don’t even watch college football (except when there’s a game before the NFL season starts and I’m seriously fiending for some football). If I were a basketball or hockey fan, yes, I would.
If the people of Minnesota don’t care enough about their team to support it (butts in seats, fan noize, and facilities), then why should we give a rat’s tail about Minnesota? This is Minnesotan’s time to stand up and be counted for their team. If they don’t, it’s Minnesota’s failure, and I don’t see why people who don’t want to give loyalty, deserve mine in turn.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
On a brighter note...
This frees up my Sundays for healthful walks and other positive social activities.
Cool, see ya later
Please don’t bother posting here anymore if that’s the case. Buh-bye! We’ll see ya again once the fair-weather hits again! ;)
This is my dream...
On Sunday Childress walks onto the field and is greeted by a packed house chanting his name for two minutes… followed by five minutes of booing. I’m going to schedule time for a nap today just to make sure it happens.
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS !!!
someone got that up pretty fast, too…genious.
(rec’d no doubt).
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
I Was Going To Suggest
That someone do this! I would change a few lines here and there but this is good stuff.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
Extremely Hilarious
Thanks man, I needed that!
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on Nov 2, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Made my day.
I needed that, it brought me out of my depression induced coma. Thank you.
Front page bound
The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota
"A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed."
"Pull your 84 jerseys out, man. I think this is going to be a fun ride." Randy Moss, WR, Minnesota Vikings
That is so freakin hilarious!
I’ve seen that same clip so many times with with many other topics, but not this one.
Fire Chilly.... ?
Hmmm…..
Mr. Wilf, I know you aren’t reading this, but I do ask this (just in case :) ); if you want to fire Chilly, please make sure you already have someone BETTER lined up.
Talk to that Dungy fellow, we like him plenty, and you will too :)
Truth is, the team has been sputtering, despite being arguably the most talented team in the NFL, and there is only ONE possible person to blame for that. It’s the one guy who’s responsibility it is to take a group of super-talented INDIVIDUALS and turn them into a smoothly cooperating TEAM. Honestly, I think the Vikings have done as well as they have so far, on pure talent. How can you not go to the NFC CG with the people that wore Purple and Gold last year? But this year is tougher…. and now those guys have to work together. But they aren’t. And there can only be one person to blame for that.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
No Coach outside the organization will take the job dude
seriously, you think dungy is gonna come out of retirement to pick up the pieces of a team in this state? Good luck. New coaches want a fresh start when they come to a team. Our best option is Frazier, and it’s not a bad option at all. But hoping for a Dungy to come in or anyone else….are you high?
No 'name' coach...
is going to take the team midseason. You fire Klink now to see if Frazier is the HC material many think he is. If he is, you’ve got your man. If he’s not, then you find a name in the offeseason.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it would be a great job
and Dungy would consider it long and hard. Why shouldn’t he? The state of our franchise is that we’re a team full of talent that isn’t being utilized to it’s full potential. Dungy, or any other coach worth his reputation could win with this team NOW. And a new coach would do what we know Childress never will: Draft a QB early.
by Bodysuit Man on Nov 2, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I really don't know
I expect, however, if Wilf’s agent starts calling around, and waving big huge hairy buckets of money in Dungy’s nose, Tony may feel like he has some spare time to help out :)
The Redskins picked up Shanahan, anything’s possible.
So yes. I’m hoping they get Dungy, and I’m not high. I don’t do pot :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Way to go,il Duceil Douche’
fixed
In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot
by JazzyBBP on Nov 2, 2010 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
oh yeah...thank you lion fan....rec'd fer sher.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Have you seen the movie "the Siege"
with Denzel Washington and Bruce Willis as the general? This is exactly the same situation. When the vikings were in complete dissaray after the 2005 season, we had a terrible team, a gangsta QB (culpepper) who liked rollin/boatin, and the sex boat scandal had embarrassingly occurred. When they brought in Childress, I remember hearing radio discussions about this guy and how it’s all or nothing with him. It would be martial law in the twin cities if you gave him power, and they only way to get him as the coach would be to give him supreme control over all football operations.
Well it looks like the Vikings knew what they were getting and now we may be stuck with him a few more seasons.
As much as ESPN and other shows are calling for Childress to be fired, among the 81% star tribune poll of fans who want him fired today, I don’t think Ziggy is gonna pull the trigger. We’re in for a long season guys. Primarily because we will now be facing teams we should easily beat and there’s a good chance we will lose many of them.
You All
May be in for a long season, but I won’t be. As long as Il Douche (I like that!) is the head coach, I will absolutely not give a shit.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
And your proof of this is where?
So we’re supposed to believe that somehow we’re going to lose most of our remaining games because you hate the coach? Interesting stuff, that.
The proof is in the pudding
We’re 2-5 and just got rid of our best WR. Harvin is injured and Rice is still not back. Our defense is in a horrible slump (3 1/2 games since our last sack). Favre is still barely functional.
The burden of proof is on you. The way we’ve been playing, it is perfectly believable that we will lose most of out remaining games. Where’s your proof that we’re suddenly going to turn that around?
by Cobra312004 on Nov 2, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
A few facts to compete with the emotional non-facts
1. We’re 2-5 for FAR more reasons than our Coach isn’t the greatest
2. Harvin’s injury has nothing to do with our Coach or the timely and necessary departure of petulant baby Moss
3. Defense’s slump is more on them than on a Coach – motivation comes from within 90% of the time or more
4. Favre is old but he’s a warrior – again, not something the fault of a Coach
The burden of proof isn’t on me or anyone else. It’s on the Vikings to start playing up to their obviously talented potential. Furthermore, you conveniently have overlooked just how close ALL these games were – several could have easily, I repeat EASILY, gone the other way.
In that regard, anyone with a clear mind, who’s not running on pure unadulterated emotion should be able to see that we could easily (especially with our remaining schedule) turn things around and finish this season out in style. I, for one, at least, am going to see this one through. That way if and/or when things turn around and we make a run, I don’t have to feel like an ass-clown when it’s all said and done.
Really?
Because I can point to quite a few reasons why we’re 2-5 that reflect entirely on the coach. The Saints loss I’ll chalk up to execution. You could argue we didn’t use Peterson enough (Yes, that would be on Childress) but I’m willing to give him a pass on it.
Then comes the Miami game. Who went for it on 4th to cost us 3 points? They were reporting right after the failed conversion that players were deflated and many of the veterans wanted to just take the 3 points. Those SURE would have been handy at the end of the game when we were in field-goal position.
Jets game. Play-calling was absolutely terrible the first half. Just terrible. We had how many drives stall without so much as a first down? It was disgusting, and I was ready to turn the game off. Thank God for the second half. Oh, and Randy Moss for helping to keep it close.
Packers game. Yeah, we lost in part due to the refs overturning a call that had no business being overturned. But there was a call that wasn’t overturned that should have been, and, honestly, that rests on Childress.
Patriots game, once AGAIN he went for it on 4th, rather than taking the points. Those 3 points DEFINITELY would have come in handy at the end of the game, making it a one-possession game instead of 2.
Could we finish the season off in style? Hell yes we could. So could the Cowboys. Nobody’s eliminated from the playoffs yet. Is it likely, though, given what we saw from the offense before we had Randy Moss? No. Is it likely, given that there’s reports Childress has lost the locker room? No. The situation is decidedly bigger than Moss vs Childress. The way he handled it has just killed this team, more or less. The season is practically sunk.
For the record
Harvin’s injury is 100% relevant because Childress knew about it and they had examined it before Moss was placed on waivers. If we knew we’d be potentially missing Harvin and Rice for a couple weeks, this needed to wait until they were back. Starting Lewis and Berrian at WR is just not going to get it done.
No
For other reasons others have already corrected you on. This team has the talent, but they just aren’t getting done on the field, and like other teams we do have injuries at the QB and WR position, only Favre plays through his injuries and you can clearly see it affecting his gameplay. The defense is stout but they’re aren’t creating any big plays. No sacks last game, Jared Allen and Ray Edwards have dissappeared, and we have inexperienced young corners. I don’t see how anything has changed for this team in 7 games, they look the same all year and there’s no reason to think we’ll end with a winning record.
Why don’t you find someone else’s post to try and pull out arguments from, I’ll talk you right under the table with football, son.
Chili isn't a dictator, he is just a DICK!
FIRE CHILI! The team has quit on him. If nothing is done soon, the 2010 season is officially over.
At least it will free up some fall Sundays to go out and enjoy this beautiful Minnesota weather we have been having! See, it isn’t all bad.
Hey Mussolini and his army made it 2 miles into France
before their pickup truck broke down! SO LAY OFF!
What, Me Worry?
Ironic also is the fact that not long ago, we were all complaining about the fact that Childress got fined for telling the truth (the officials screwed us out of a win against Green Bay). We all defended him for it too. Now, he fires Moss for telling the truth. Seriously, what part of what Moss said is untrue? Maybe stupid judgment to brag on the team that just beat you but it’s Moss we’re talking about here.
I think if I were to compare Childress to any dictator, it would be Kim Jong Il. A bit batty upstairs, not necessarily violent, but extremely paranoid and secretive. Also, not the kind of guy you would publicly disagree with.
He should be fired yesterday and the job given to Frazier to see if he can show signs of motivating a Pro Bowl roster to another couple of wins this season. If he can’t, get someone else when the season mercifully ends. There are plenty of guys who can do the job, just pick one with a history of motivating players to play and being a smart coach who will pick a top notch group of assistants. This doesn’t need to be a “rebuilding” period. There’s plenty of talent here already.
Not sure people were defending Childress
as much as people were upset that the league had just blown a ton of calls in our game, and had the nerve to fine us for it after they apologized.
I wish we could keep spielman and studwell though
they’ve been doing an excellent job picking up players.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Randy Moss' was just signed
as roving food critic for Bon Appetit magazine.
thought Bon Appetit closed down awhile ago?
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
~Mark Twain
What Kills Me
Is the people saying we can’t fire Childress because we’ll lose $13 Million if we do. Uh, we just lost at least $3 Million for having Moss for 4 weeks and could lose just over $6 Million if he makes it through waivers. How’s that for money management for you?
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
and we will also loose a 3rd round draft pick, wonder how much that is worth??
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
~Mark Twain
I think it'll be Kansas City, S.D., Seattle or Arizona
Can’t see anyone else really wanting him. Maybe the Bears?
I Don't Think So Either
But this is still a buffoon move by a buffoon coach.
What if Buffalo picks him up? Then he will end up playing his former teams from the same season 3 times in a single season. That has to be a first of some kind, doesn’t it?
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
Buffalo might be good for us
If Buffalo gets him, we’ll have a chance at having the first overall draft pick next year.
off topic question.... when will we begin discussion about next weeks game?
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
~Mark Twain
This was a pretty foolish move.
So expect some belly aching. As real information is still trickling out amongst a flood of opinions and blatant lies it’s hard to know what to think about this.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Grime
We’ve butted heads last year but I learned from a lot of you guys. I’m sure as crap not giving up on us this year.
You raise good points – too much info and not enough confirmed facts to really know the entire picture. I think that Chilly did what had to be done and I’m totally 100% okay with it.
And you're going to continue to have people arguing that point
because, frankly, it didn’t have to be done. Certainly not this way. Sit a player for a game, a series, a quarter, whatever. Don’t just let them talk their way off the roster. Now anybody who isn’t happy here will be doing the same.
I Don't Care
About next weeks game as long as Childress is still their head coach. The fine football minds at KFAN have their heads so far up Childress’ ass that they still think he’s the answer and not the problem.
Almost 40 years of faithfulness shot down by one ignoramus of a head coach, and obviously an incompetent front office as well.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
I suspect that reflects
a bit more on your attitudes though, than anything a single player or coach can do. YOU control your emotions and loyalty to the team – which in most diehard fans’ cases is far above the actions of any frustrating coaches or players. Just my opinion, though, your mileage may vary of course. :)
In response to this thread
I’ll select NEITHER as my answer. Totally agree with the fine football minds at KFAN – he did what he had to do and by FAR what was best for the team. Moss was useless, didn’t do much on the field (no way to prove that a 7pt increase had ANYTHING to do with him, from a scientific standpoint – too difficult to verify) and was causing massive problems on the field.
And Mike Florio’s PFT.com reveals more info from Yahoo’s Silver about Moss’ crap behavior. Good riddance to this butt-munch of a player. He’s someone else’s problem now.
Furthermore, interviews with key Viking players seem to indicate that they’re fully against sacking the coach in mid-season – it’s utterly the last thing the team needs right now. If you’re a true fan of the team, now’s the time to nut up, or shut-up and support them and their hard-working under-appreciated coach.
Nuff said.
Then why did they TRADE for him..
you can’t have it both ways, Wytefang, And PA wants to.
You knew what he was like. On and off the field. Either you accepted the risk and roll the dice on the season. Or you let it go by and take your lumps so you can improve in the draft.
You don’t throw away a potential impact-player selection in the draft and then throw away the player TOO.
IF this was true, then you fine him. Period. You don’t bury your season and destroy your fanbase.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
You raise good points about the stupidity of the trade
…especially knowing Moss’ reputation and the likely outcome of gambling on him. I won’t defend that…if they could’ve gotten him for less, it probably wouldn’t have been so frustrating. However, I’m pretty darn tired of people griping for the Coach’s head (a coach, I might add, who has improved his winning totals every year until this year AND bear in mind he doesn’t play on the field so much of what happens is, in fact, OUT of his control) when that would probably be the worst possible thing to do in mid-season for a team teetering on the edge and that could easily turn things around.
It reflects poorly on the fan-base, 99.9% of whom have ZERO experience managing or coaching, and thus lack quite a bit of credibility other than their fanboyism, in general. It also reflects just how badly knee-jerk we’ve all gotten as sports fans. I should know, I spent much of last season going back and forth in agony over every loss. Took some time this summer to think things over and decided (thanks to good folk here like ArizonaVikingFan and others) to be less knee-jerk and just be more supportive.
erm...
pardon me, but Klink’s had 3 losing seasons in 5 years.
And Klink has final say in all personnel matters. So Klink made the call BOTH ways.
So either Klink was an idiot then or now.
Which is it?
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
It reflects poorly on the fan-base, 99.9% of whom have ZERO experience managing or coaching, and thus lack quite a bit of credibility other than their fanboyism, in general.
…having done some serious coaching and managing (soccer) in my time, I know what it’s like and most rubes here have zero experience with it and that’s why they think the way they do…
you couldn’t sound more condescending. besides, soccer doesn’t matter.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
you are right....we may end up with a soccer team instead of a football team !!!
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
ahem
Go watch Nigel de Jong’s tackle on Stuart Holden and say it’s a “girl’s sport.”
Can the Four Letter Network sophistry. There’s enough to despise in that post from the utter condescension. It explains why WF is so in love with Klink. They both look down their noses at the fans who pay the bills at the end of the day.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
hey, i didn't call soccer a "girls sport".....i said "soccer doesn't matter"
.
p.s. here is a link from my profile page you might enjoy <<< click here
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
And the condescension is well deserved
As I explain above. Why would anyone put any stock into someone who has no experience with the subject matter being discussed. I wouldn’t expect a Chess champion to listen to me whine about some opening move when I admittedly know jack-squat about this ancient and noble game.
The point of some of the condescension is that we have armchair coaches and experts all over the place in here, most of whom make little sense and are running on sheer emotion AND worse, who have never, ever, had any experience with coaching or as a coach. So why, again, are we supposed to believe what they have to say with nothing behind them to support their contentions?
you seem to assume...
you seem to assume that you are the only person who has ever served a team, coached or managed anybody. and it appears that you think unless somebody does that, then they are inferior to you and your opinions. and you seem to believe that your opinions are going to be correct and valid just because you claim to have coached kickball at some undetermined level.
well, i don’t think that being condescending like you are is a good practice. and i you actually are a coach, i hope that you don’t speak like that to those you coach. if you do, it’s no wonder that you seem to have the same problems controlling your players and creating a cohesive team enviornment as our own chilly has. why has it been reported that many vikings question chilly?
also, you have repeatedly mentioned that “everyone” here is just an “arm chair coach” with “knee jerk reactions” to “anything” that goes on with the vikings (and chastise “all” of us for stating the prevailing opinions). but one thing seems to stand out pretty clear, and yet gets ignored by your diatribe….
brad childress, the head coach of the vikings, has just pulled off the biggest knee jerk reaction in recent sports memory with his handling of this randy moss situation. and, unlike you, he actually coaches football. and even he has managed to violate your cardinal rule of coaching….to not be reactionary.
pretty darn funny.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
by jethrophet on Nov 2, 2010 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why would anyone put any stock into someone who has no experience with the subject matter being discussed.
lol, just to go OT for a moment … I think some of the election results yesterday in many parts of the country (including here in WI with Ron Johnson) shows that a majority of people often will do exactly that.
Who Are They?
I want to know who the key players are that were in favor of sacking Moss and keeping Childress. No one names any names, they just say “key players”. They could be talking about Bernard Berrian and Hank Baskett for Christ sakes!
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
Nuff said.
anytime i see “nuff said” at the end of a comment, i squint my eyes and grind my brain trying to get back the time i just wated reading the said comment. do you really think that statement reinforces whatever it is that you had just typed?
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Doesn't need to
it wasn’t meant to reinforce anything, it’s just a way to close out a comment, nothing more, nothing less good Jethrophet.
Empty Seats
I hope there are a lot of them on Sunday. If not, I hope they are filled with people that will boo as loud as they can boo because that is what this organization deserves right now.
They have dropped their drawers and collectively shit all over the fans of this once proud franchise one too many times.
At this point I don’t think a new coach is enough. New, Minnesota based ownership, is what it will take to right the ship.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
Methinks you protest too much
…with little to no proof of anything you’re saying. Feel free to jump back on the bandwagon if we start winning (or once we do).
Not likely
since by then they’ll be the LA Vikings. And I won’t root for them, or any other NFL team after.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Shawn, Shawn, Shawn
Come down from the ledge man. Here, have some nice hot cocoa – watch this tape of Viking Highlights. Cheer up and hope for the best, dude. It’s just a sport, it’s just a game. Relax. :)
The clock is ticking
The LA Vikings is a very real reality if things don’t change. Don’t patronize people because they see it coming.
It's easier
to whistle dixie and assume all is right with the world and there’s always next year.
Fact is, it’s 50-50 there is no 2011 season @ this point. And if there isn’t, I don’t see a way, as things stand, the Vikes stay. The Legislature isn’t going to finance a stadium for a team not playing.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually,
I don’t think its 50-50 anymore. I remember reading that the lockout is highly unlikely at this point. I’d say that puts it at more 80-20
I haven't seen that
Everything I’ve seen the last 6 months leans towards the lockout becoming increasingly likely. That’s why the union is disbanding as we speak.
No the Union
isn’t disbanding. Its just getting support from players, telling them its going to do it as a last-ditch effort if the talks fail.
But Robert Kraft has already come out and said its very likely there will be a season next year. And he’s one of the more influential owners.
It's decertifying
Now because it’s harder to do when everyone is scattered in the offseason. It won’t go through until the lockout does.
I saw Bob Kraft said that, but he is the only person that seems to think that so I’m not buying it yet. Do not underestimate greed.
until I see Jerry Jones
say he’ll buy into continued revenue sharing, don’t believe the no-lockout talk.
Because he’s the one driving this. He’s tired of financing the Bengals and other low-budget teams that scam the system and refuse to compete. The only issue the players have control of in this, in reality, is rookie salary. And heck, that’s no skin off their nose, since it’s more money for the ‘active’ players. The revenue sharing system is 100% owner side. And the grim thing is, they don’t agree how to fix it, but they’ll lock each other out to fight over it.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 4, 2010 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Not the case
Not patronizing anyone for claiming to have foresight on something, just patronizing because it sounds patently retarded to go that far down the slope on this. Just silly.
Wouldn't say it's retarded
We have been trying to get a new stadium for a good 12 years. Now, on the season preceding what, by all indications, is our last chance at getting one, we have embarrassment after embarrassment to go along with a potentially disastrous record.
If we couldn’t get a stadium through after going to the NFC Championship game, it’s not much of a leap to think this season is not going to get it done either. Alienating a majority of the fanbase with this (who, even if they are “knee-jerk reacting”, or are ignorant of the difficulties of a head coach, still got to vote today for the men and women that will be deciding this stadium issue) is just a bad move in the stadium push.
And Me Thinks
You’re drinking too much of the Childress Koolaid.
I don’t know how old you are but I’ve been cheering for this team since I was old enough to say “Go Vikings”, which goes back to the late 60’s. Obviously I didn’t understand what I was yelling for at the time, but from the time I was about 7 or 8 I’ve been cheering for them, so 37-38 years? I am the farthest thing from a fairweather or bandwagon fan that you can be.
I feel like I’ve been faithful to a woman who keeps cheating on me. At some point a person has just had enough and I’m at that point. If we fired Childress and went 0-9 from here on out I’d be happier than if we somehow magically made the playoffs with him at the helm.
I’m tired of him and the organization as a whole. Bon Voyage!
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
Don't let the door hit ya on the way out, I guess.
:( I understand the anger – sports teams can do that to you – but really, I don’t understand wanting to give up on it all, either. Just silly, if you ask me.
And honestly, if you don’t care, maybe time to stop posting about how much you “don’t care.” People who don’t care don’t post angry diatribes. ;)
I've been a fan since the 70s.
Watched them lose Super Bowls, tear down the Old Met, lived through Les Steckel and Jerry Burns. THE MISS and 41-0.
But as bad as all that was, none of that showed the disrespect for the fans Klink routinely has shown and gets away with.
I’m not a bandwagoner. I’m dying inside as I watch something I loved as a kid get torn down and carted off Irsay-like because one man is too egotistical to take criticism he deserves.
Fine him if you don’t like it. But you don’t blow up the team to soothe your ego.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
We have to agree to disagree my man
There are plenty of reports out there that seem to support the contention that this is hardly blowing up the team, by any means. Sounds like plenty of Vet players knew it was the right decision.
Regardless, all the whining will die down if we start winning – that’s what’s the most ironic and amusing about all the over-blown anger and fussing.
Again
Name the players. I guess we’ll find out just how this affects the team on Sunday. I expect it to be ugly.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
Sources are never revealed
I expect us to win and the team to respond to adversity the way ALL good teams respond. Curse my silly support of my beloved team.
Problem Is
This is not a good team. Their 2-5 record to this point bears that out.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
They're certainly not good right now
by a win/loss standard but we all know we have the talent and capability. It’s just an off year so far and hopefully things turn around. No point in freaking out and ESPECIALLY not since we’ve not been blown out at all – we’ve lost very close games. I’d probably feel different if every week was a blowout loss or something – THEN and only then, would it make sense to start fussing about the coach as the possible culprit. But right now, there are FAR too many suspects for this murdered season to blame.
Close games
Are when coaching matters the most because even small coaching errors can have big consequences. The fact that we have a talented team and are losing close games means that it is more on the coach in my opinion.
Well Put
perfect analogy.
We have been faithful to this team through everything, but they keep cheating on us and letting us down. Its embarrassing to be a Viking Fan this week. They show no respect to the fanbase that makes them money. 90%+ want childress fired. I dont care how much Zygi likes childress. If you run a company, and 90% of your customers say they want someone fired or they will no longer do business with you…. YOU FIRE THE GUY! Bottom Line. Forget the buyout money. They will lose that much in one week of Viking boycots. Hell the value of the team probably dropped 100 mill because of how they are seen as a joke of a franchise now.
Sorry to bust your balls, Wytefang, but who let you back on the bandwagon?
I seem to remember you saying you were done with the Vikes not too long ago.
by KC612 on Nov 2, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I said it myself last year when they were choking in big games
But I learned a lot from a LOT of good people on this site about being a better fan. Took the advice to heart and am living up to what I learned from some great fans here. :) SKOL VIKES!
I respect your post, you have the right to point that out based on my frustrations with last year, that’s for sure.
Good for you.
Football is a game and is meant to be fun. For the players. For the fans. For everyone! SKOL!
I want
the seats full and the dome to be rockin’.This team needs OUR support at this time and I as a fan -and a long time fan-am going to cheer for my team all game long.I’ve watched every coach but Van Brocklin,Have we had better coaching – sure -Have we had worse – maybe not.I have not been a chilly fan at any point since his arrival,How ever I am a Minnesota Viking fan(delusional quite possibly)and want them to win no matter who is on the field ,in the office,scouting players or driving the bus.We all just need to take a deep breath and pass the kool aid and watch the Vikes shoot down the cards
A successful coach needs a patient wife, loyal dog, and great quarterback - and not necessarily in that order.
-- Bud Grant
by PurpleValhalla on Nov 2, 2010 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Can I just say...this team needs to resolve this whole f'ing drama by the end of the day today because
We have a damn game to prepare for, and we can’t fucking afford to loose another game.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
~Mark Twain
by meno on Nov 2, 2010 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
In Fact
The only reason I’m still hanging around here is that I’m hopeful to see that Childress has been fired.
It would restore a little bit of my faith in the organization to see that.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
plus
there’s a lot of very cool if not animated people here on the site, and even with the differing opinions, we should be able to beat the Cardinals at home for gosh sakes!
Well said, Abba7
I appreciate your more reasoned comment here. Thanks.
SKOL VIKINGS!! POUND THE CARDINALS – WE OWE THEM PAYBACK, BABY!!!
Why?
Why is it more reasoned to say we’ll win than to say we will lose this week? Just because it’s agreeing with you?
Well, yes, isn't that how all debates work?
You’re wrong until you agree with me :)
2010 MN Sports: Not again! & WTF?! & Sigh.
Mainly
Because we have a better team by a mile. Not a long stretch to assume a potential victory here.
Considering
Considering the Cardinals have a better record than we do, it seems a bit bold to me. They’ve scored more points than we have and they have been starting Derek Anderson and an undrafted rookie (as in he went undrafted in this year’s draft) at QB all year.
Not saying
We’re going to lose, just that the Cardinals aren’t a team we can overlook by any means. They have a better coach and some dangerous offensive weapons.
What if...
The Vikings win the next four games (Arizona, Bears, Pack at home, Washington). Is Chilly still on the hot seat, or does he get credit for pulling a dysfunctional team back from the brink?
I am still on the side of not liking the idea of how things went down
Waiving Moss may not have been the right thing to do.
Fine him, have him sit for a game, not dress for a game, etc.
But to release him? He was a contributor, whether we saw it or not. The offense was doing BETTER!
Whether we believe it or not..
Back to barely scoring over 20 points..
FUN!!!
Unfortunately statisticallly and scientifically speaking
…that point is completely impossible to prove.
Defenses will scheme
Towards PH and AP versus putting more coverage on Moss.
Therefore, I predict it’ll be hard to score on opposing teams.
Bernard will drop balls..
We still don’t know if Rice will come back to form, and even contribute for that matter.
Hank Baskett, I can’t imagine him to be extremely successful, otherwise we’d see more play-time from him. It’ll basically be Shank & Harvin as our main threats. And You know… harvin is pissed about this Moss fiasco.
Actually Wyte, scientifically speaking...
There was an established environment that was producing predictable results (the control). A new subject was introduced the environment and the results changed. It’s actually very scientific at this point to assume that the thing that changed was responsible for the change.
We won’t know for sure until we see how the offense performs for the next 3-4 weeks, but right now it is very scientific to put forth the hypothesis that we will struggle offensively again.
Not really
There were too many variables going around in the controlled environment (which by most stats classes wouldn’t at all be considered a controlled environment, really) to honestly make this claim. I’m not disclaiming that there’s been a bump, I’m merely saying it’s probably impossible to really quantify it as being related to Moss directly.
Maybe it's not directly related to Moss
but there is defintely some factor he provided that aided in the increase in offensive production. And now that he’s gone, it’s entirely reasonable to assume that production will now decrease as a result.
We'll find out
If we return to the same offense we saw the first three weeks from here until Rice comes back healthy (if he does), I would say that Moss’ impact would be fairly obvious. You can quote variables all you want but if that happens, it’s gonna be a hard sell.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5755561
if you can, follow this link for Moss’ rant he pulled at a team dinner.
The guy’s a jerk, and his best football is behind him.
Move on.
According To Michael Silver
Didn’t we just talk about him earlier? I believe someone said that he was “full of shit.”
This makes no sense to me that this story does not make the press until today. Why not on Friday when it happened or at the very latest, on Saturday. When has anything that Moss has ever done waited 4 days to become breaking news? Never.
I don’t believe Moss is an angel by any stretch but I’m having my doubts about this story.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
again
If This happened, and isn’t after-the-fact spin doctoring, then fine him.
You knew what you were getting. On and Off the field. If you traded for him, you play him to the end of the season and take the compensatory pick, at worst.
You don’t cut him for nothing.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
fine him?
He already said that it doesn’t matter to him about fines when he made the statement regarding talking to the media.
He. Doesn’t. Care.
by mackman on Nov 2, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
discipline isn't just about
the person disciplined. None of this was anything you don’t expect from Moss. So why cut him and lose draft picks for nothing? Oh…and keep paying him too.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
And cutting him makes him care?
Say what you will about Moss, at least he is consistently who he is.
You don’t cut a player for being a jerk or for having bad manners. It’s ridiculous to suggest it. But it’s kind of ironic to cut a player because he insulted the food at lunch, but pamper and bend over backwards to cater to a player that allegedly sent pictures of his junk to some woman.
But that’s the risk you run when you set up double standards to accommodate people that are responsible for you having a job.
And it's even more ironic
to say this is about his ‘manners’ after lying through your teeth to the fans and media the day before.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. This is the NFL, not a beauty pageant. Most of the players on the field either were thugs or would’ve been thugs if it weren’t for sports. You don’t watch football for “gentlemen.” You watch your team win. If they’re the rare guy who has class, all the better.
but then Klink sent off the last one of those we hand (Matt Birk) because he wasn’t willing to be a ‘yes-man’ either. So go figure.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
To clarify,
Childress didn’t send Birk off. Birk left. Even though we offered more money. Probably because he can’t stand Childress.
To be honest, I’d love to hear his opinion on this Moss fiasco.
Still the point stands...
Childress poisoned the relationship with a team leader because Klink couldn’t handle being challenged. His ego will not allow others to use their brains in his vicinity. Everything must confine to his ‘system.’
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 3, 2010 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions
perhaps, however
If Moss would have TRIED to make an effort to catch that pass on the PI call, there is a TD & we decline the penalty. Moss is Moss, you are correct. Apparently teams want him because they think things will be different “this time” with him.
Favre has an ego, but at least he has the team in mind when he is out there. I’ve never seen him quit on a play ( even when maybe he should ). Moss plays when & how he wants. It’s not worth having him when you can’t count on him.
Hope Rice is back soon, and pray Favre, Harvin or AP do not get injured.
oh...get over the PI already
You don’t know ‘if’ he would’ve caught the ball. And ‘if’ he had tried, maybe they pick up the flag.
Moss didn’t make the offensive line play like a sieve on the next play.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually
It was 3 plays later. So if people want to blame Moss for Favre getting injured, they should also blame the players that didn’t score on either of the two plays between the PI and the injury.
Harvin has an anke injury, don't know how serious though
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
~Mark Twain
Yep
And was tested on it yesterday. The fact that we still don’t know how serious it is has me worried.
All we have at this point is that Harvin didn’t sound optimistic after the game.
I'll offer a compromise to the Moss issue.
Moss is a disruptive asshole and Chilly is an incompetent coach who has lost the trust and leadership of his team.
One statement being correct doesn’t make the other incorrect.
The Vikings will ultimately be better off with both of them gone. Maybe not immediately…. but ultimately.
Perhaps...
but that still doesn’t justify cutting him. Fine Moss, suspend him. Put him on the “Inactive” list. Anything to keep the compensatory pick.
You don’t waive him and lose everything. Honestly, at worst what I’ve heard was fine material. Favre’s all but said Klink and Bevell are incompetent to the media in as many words.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Favre nearly...
Didn’t come back to play because of all the disagreements w/ Childress.
Although, I believe Favre has such a hankering to play Football he didn’t want to live with any regrets.
Shawn, you're just making yourself look less credible with each Moss apology
There are several stories coming out now and undoubtedly more will in the days to come about this loser. Plenty of GREAT reasons to cut his non-productive ass. Denying the reasons for him being cut hardly makes it less reasonable.
nope
it doesn’t justify it. I’m not a Moss apologist.
All I’ve EVER said is this: If you think Klink should’ve cut him. They you have to admit Klink was an idiot for TRADING for him. You can’t have it both ways.
My point is most football players are thugs. So why are you expecting them to behave otherwise?
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
This brings up an interesting point I'd like you to address Wyte
If you claim that the stats in support of Moss’ influence on the offense are impossible to prove, what are you basing your “non-productive” (which is an outright falsehood because it implies he did NOTHING which is 100% false) label on? Because if it’s his receiving numbers that seems a little hypocritical. Then again, his receiving numbers are actually pretty good compared to our other WR’s, so that seems like an unlikely source. It can’t be based on his effort because a) he has always produced superior productivity with less effort than most and b) effort does not equal production by any definition.
I can only assume it is anecdotal, in which case, what makes your observation of his non-influence on the offense more viable than anyone else’s?
Yeah, if Moss is unproductive
while being the 2nd best WR on the team statistically, AFTER MISSING THE FIRST MONTH OF OUR SCHEDULE, then maybe we should be cutting Berrian, Camarillo, Baskett, and Lewis too.
I'll Take That
Moss is an asshole, but he was a known commodity when we made the trade for him. He’s also a game changing asshole and we need that right now, at least the game changing part. One thing Moss didn’t do is make the defense play worse. Our increase in scoring production since Moss’s arrival could possibly have been enough to win our first three games.
Childress is a narcissist and he can’t handle being criticized. He needs to be gone.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
With a better coach, the Moss experiment would have probably worked.
Moss certainly had a reputation for being a malcontent when the Vikings traded for him. But given the fact he had pretty much been well behaved during his years at New England, there was probably a thought he may have “matured”. The biggest mistake was thinking Childress would have the same success managing his behavior that Bellichick had.
If there is any truth to the Friday post-practice dinner episode, a real coach would have pulled Moss to the side and told him something to the effect of “if you ever do anything to embarrass the team like that again, I’ll make it my personal mission that you never play on another NFL team the rest of your life. Now, shut the fuck up and eat your dinner.”
At the very first hint that Moss was going to revert to his old ways, Billichick unloaded him. Initially, the media was critizing him for letting Moss go. Even Brady eluded to it not being a good idea. Four weeks later, the Patriots have the best w/l record in the NFL. And, once again, Hoody looks like a genius and Chilly looks like a buffon.
Yikes, this sounds even crazier than many other posts here
Hard to imagine that any coach would’ve fixed what’s wrong with Moss these days.
If there is any truth to the Friday post-practice dinner episode, a real coach would have pulled Moss to the side and told him something to the effect of "if you ever do anything to embarrass the team like that again, I’ll make it my personal mission that you never play on another NFL team the rest of your life. Now, shut the fuck up and eat your dinner."
It’s been explicitly confirmed in the caterers account that there was no one from the coaching staff present when this happened. So it is clear that the coaches did not even know about this til later (perhaps not until midday monday? that would actually fit well with the otherwise weird chain of events in what Childress did that day).
Seems like a stretch
The players and media knew but the coaches didn’t find out until Monday? Because it seemed like the whole “2 targets for Moss” thing fits better with the coaches knowing before that.
I think it’s much more likely, given the history of this team and coach, that the reason there seems like an odd timeline with this event is there is some lying going on somewhere. Very Childress to blatantly lie, or make someone else lie for him.
At some point
You’d think Bill Bellicheck (sp) would tire of treating Chilly like his whipping boy.
The Worst Part
Of all of this is, is that I’ve wasted the better part of two days trying to see what was going on, or what was going to or even hoping would happen and I haven’t gotten a damn thing done that needs to get done.
I’m out for now.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
AGREED!!!!!!!
Especially since Chillz is still coach, and, sadly, looks like he will remain so. It is ironic that Chillz has no tolerance for insubordination of any kind, but, fails to live up to his own standard when it comes to his own actions. The Wilfs have made it clear that a decision of this kind MUST be by committee, and, clearly Chillz again disregarded this policy. If the Wilfs do not act decisively on this sooner, rather than later, THEIR credibility in terms of leadership will be in just as much question as Chillz credibility as a sideline coach is. Someone must stop this now.
Tomorrow will be worse than today, trust me
The team will be back at practice, and the weekly PCs will happen. There are so many key parties yet to be heard from. Heck, NO ONE has really said much yet, not even Childress and Moss.
If Moss is picked up off waivers, expect the shit to really fly in all directions during his first PC with his new team.
Let's just take this moment for what it really is...
an opportunity to get rid of Childress and either promote Frazier or bring in the Chin. Sorry, Randy. You will be the grease for this opportunity.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
Hey Chilly
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Nov 2, 2010 3:19 PM CDT reply actions
Don't know if you guys seen this already or not. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2pcuLOk6Wc
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
by patriotguy2 on Nov 2, 2010 3:51 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
If anyone does take offense to it, I am deeply sorry, and you can remove it.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Someone posted it earlier
very fonny. wish I had a Utube Video making me the money he’s gonna make on that one.
Just to be clear, whoever thinks we were better off without 'lazy' Moss;
Total for 7 games: BTwice – 9 catches, 87 yards
Total for 4 games: Moss – 13 catches, 174 yards, 2 TDs.
We’re definitely better off with Berrian.
the real issue...
is Randy Moss. Why would BB give him up for a 3rd round pick? Because he wanted to unite Favre with Moss, so they could beat him? Wytefang is right, Belichick gave up on him and Childress thought he would take a chance and then realized what he had.
Most of this debate will be resolved within a day or two, and the rest by the end of the year. If Moss is so valuable, some team will pick him off waivers along with his contract, and the financial cost will be minimal(like it’s coming out of anyone’s pocket here). The draft pick is lost.
If not, that says something for sure. So someone picks him up cheap and he has a great year or he poisons the water hole somewhere else. We won’t have long to wait.
Can we still use Joe Webb at WR?
I understand he is a good person and good football player? Can’t we figure out a couple plays to get him in the game? If Punk ars Moss was just a decoy, couldn’t Webb do that?
Duhhhhhh, I dunno?
Maybe because Moss is a Proven Deep threat??
Fire that ToolBag Childress, Like Yesterday! And Promote Lezlie to HC!
SKOL VIKES.
$traight Ca$h Homie.
by marsexxxy23 on Nov 2, 2010 5:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
was he proven in 1996? How much has he done lately?
maybe Joe Webb is THE rookie we been looking for? How come you know so much?
On Moss and his disrespect to the food servers
No one was standing up to Moss for his disgusting and disrespectful behavior. From Tom Pelissero’s Twitter (he was IN THE LOCKER ROOM AT THE TIME):
“Bunch of people asking about @RealMikeSilver nugget regarding Moss, locker-room spread. Yes, it happened and the media was in there.”
“That’s one area in which #Vikings miscalculated. They thought they’d get a guy who would assuage to the existing locker-room leadership.”
“That’s not Moss, though. He returned to being the dominant male, so to speak. The guy who told an unfunny joke and people laughed anyway.”
“Was that incident the reason he was cut? No way. Just one example of the sort of personality Moss was. Stronger than anticipated.”
Look, this whole situation is a mess. But don’t try to say that Moss’ sickening disrespect to people wasn’t real and that “oh that’s not a problem, Vikings veterans would have stopped it” because they didn’t.
Moss was always going to be a time bomb. If the Vikes started going downhill, as they did, Moss was always going to say “F*ck it” and stop trying, stop being even a reasonable human being. The mistake was to ever bring him in in the first place.
And I have to wonder whether Favre, not Chilldress, was the one to force the move to get Moss in the first place.
What I Don't Understand
From Tom Pelissero’s Twitter (he was IN THE LOCKER ROOM AT THE TIME):
Great, Tom Pelissero was in there. On Friday. Why did it take until Tuesday for this to make the news? This should have been Friday evenings news or at the latest, Saturday mornings news? But this news just happens to get held back until after the Vikings release Moss, and then we get the whole “Moss is an asshole and he deserved to be released” spiel. I’m not buying it. Something is fishy in Minnesota and it isn’t in those 10,000 lakes either.
I am boycotting the Vikings until they fire Brad Childress.
Yeah, it reeks of PR
I’m not saying the story is fabricated. It’s probably true. But I mean, the team didn’t see it as such a big deal at the time. Now they release the news because they need to make it look like they had a better reason for dropping Moss than simply the HC’s whims.
It’s probably true
Probably? Seriously dude, the caterer was very explicit in his account yesterday. And I know you know about that interview, based upon other replies you’ve made.
And “the team didn’t see it as such a big deal at the time?” The room went quiet. Another player told Moss STFU. Favre shot daggers with his eyes. A lot of the players made a point of going up to the caterer afterwards to assure him it was great food. Yeah, none of those guys hardly noticed it even happened!
p.s. by the way, for it to be “PR” wouldn’t it have to come from the team? AFAIK the team management has had NO part in this story coming out. Silver cited a player as his source. “Shooter now” went directly to the caterer.
You’re just blindly grasping at straws here, dude.
Wow
Okay, sorry for saying probably. I assumed anyone with some reading comprehension would take that to assume I believed the story to not be fabricated and instead to be true.
And just because the players apologized for Moss doesn’t mean they saw it as a big-deal. It was an ass-move, yes. But it seems to me like it was something they were willing to just shrug off after the fact, like water under the bridge. That means it wasn’t terribly offensive to them, or else the media would have heard it almost immediately after. It was Randy being a dick, that’s all it was at the time. Now its the excuse they use to drum up a reason to justify cutting him so they don’t look like idiots.
Also, no. It doesn’t have to come from management to be PR. Just because a team doesn’t issue a statement doesn’t mean the PR department didn’t have some hand in the story.
St. Paul Should give Chilly a break
don’t they wan’t a team that treats all of Minny with respect? Sure Ziggy wants to win and so does Chilly, but apparently they want to win with people who deserve to wear a super bowl ring; without demeaning anyone around them. Is not this the kind of organization that deserves a stadium? If not, then I belong to the wrong fan base and need to find a different team.
Yeah St Paul,
Give the man who has single handedly screwed you out of at least 2 more wins (Saints (straying from Run Game) and Packers(challenges???) anyone?)
Not to mention Cuttin the Prodigal Homey without the Owner and VP of PP’s consent,
therefore probably eliminating the only chance to show the Dipshits in office that the Vikes deserve to have a New Stadium…
Man you guys are just Selfish, Selfish people.
Fire that ToolBag Childress, Like Yesterday! And Promote Lezlie to HC!
SKOL VIKES.
$traight Ca$h Homie.
by marsexxxy23 on Nov 2, 2010 5:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
And you are a short sighted idiot....
the stadium is for the people of Minnesota and Viking Fans for GENERATIONS…it aint for randy moss or Childress or even for ZIGGY. St. Paul, look at the long term vision, please. It should not be based on one or two years. Do you think dallas is sad they wasted a billion dollars just to have a losing team? Naw, Jerry will get over it, and probably win a super bowl before he dies, as much as I will hate to see it. I bet Texas still loves that damn stadium and glad they built it.
Matt Birk...
…didn’t leave because of Childress, I’m sure it was probably a factor, but he left because the Vikings wouldn’t offer the same amount of money as the Ravens. The story blew up the whole “hometown discount” story in the NFL.
I’d love to be wrong here, though. If anyone can point me to an article which says Birk left because of Childress I’d love to see it.
Vikes offered more money.
Birk hinted that Chilly is the reason he left.
Fire that ToolBag Childress, Like Yesterday! And Promote Lezlie to HC!
SKOL VIKES.
$traight Ca$h Homie.
by marsexxxy23 on Nov 2, 2010 5:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
ding
That’s been long established. Birk didn’t like Klink’s zone blocking scheme and had the audacity to say the Vikes were better equipped to block man-on. Klink didn’t like that and blew up.
Given what the offensive line’s done since, guess who was right?
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 2, 2010 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Birk was right then and he still is
3/5 of our current line would be better off going man on man. We automatic positive yards most downs., WE loose the surprise of the defense loosing that key on whether it is run or pass but he way our offense is called and the lack of creatvie multiple sets negates andy surprise because 97% of the time you knwo what s is coming. Just like the 4th and Goal. Everyone knew who and pretty much where. Put Moss in and if he is singles up pass it to him if he is doubled you have elminiated a person to block. The Birk Line zone blocking was about as dum as Kliensasser running a fly pattern or BF going out for a pass. Oh yeh they did that too.
I'd say 4/5
Only Sullivan really fits the stereotypical zone lineman. Loadholt, Hererra, Hutchinson and McKinnie are all grinders in the run game and can kick some smaller guys around in 1 on 1 run blocking.
Yeah moss was a jackass
…but are you kidding me chilly????
Advantages to mid season hiring
If there is a coach that you want that is availabel DUNGY then he can try to turn the ship around without any real responsiblity if it doesn’t because of the situation. If we are elminiated from contection then he is free to experiement with players and see what they can really do, players are playing for their job and he gets to evauluate them against real competition rather than just having to reling on film., and to make decisions in the offesason. He has a better feel of the staff and know who to keep and who not to keep.. Many benefits to hiring midseason if the coach you want is available. TICE was FIRED at 9-7 with a history of much less financial support to get players. Chilli has gotten everyone he has asked for. Zygi has sent so much that now Chilli takes his spending for granted. The Redskins have shown us you cannot spend your way into the Superbowl (unless we go totally uncapped) you need a COACH
moss may have been still playing for the pat's
On the pass interference call, and in the back of the endzone, it was pretty difficult to tell. I know he got the pass interference call, but his lack of follow-through on his route was ridiculous!
Does anyone else share the view, that maybe Moss really was trying to help the Pat’s in small ways. One catch for 8 yards????
Once catch for 8 yards on
2 targets. He wasn’t targetted man. Come on now, Moss wasn’t helping trying to help the Patriots. No player in the NFL likes losing.
childress needs to go
he’s from the andy reid coaching tree and, living here in the philly area, is not the most popular coach. childress does everything that reid does but alot less successfully. reid can at least judge talent and gets rid of older vets a just the right time. get chilly out already!! i think he’s only got a .500 winning percentage anyway. nothing special special on any front. the only problem is that no owner will want to pay the fired coach and the new coach next year when neither is doin anything because of the lockout.
Good things come to those who keep fighting
By the way.
The loss of Matt Birk really hurt this team. I was pissed about it. One class individual there.
FYI here’s what Birk said yesterday about Moss and his little food rant:
Some people don’t have any taste. Some people don’t have any manners. And some people don’t have either.
Classic, Matt!
I think Chill did this to get the attention off the QB position
Now everyone can only talk about Moss, but what about the blaring fact that Favre got knocked out of the game Sunday…maybe he;s out next week too. I wouldnt mind that because T-Jack looked pretty good, he didnt get flustered like he did, and the sack was because he stepped up into the pocket and it just dissolved on him. Im ready to be off of Moss and onto T-Jack
Childress needs to be fired
I have been a viking fan for forty years and I have never seen a coach do so little with so much. The only coach I can compare him to is Steckel and even our messed up ownership of the 80’s was smart enough to end that after one year. We have Frazier on our staff already who I believe is as close to Tony Dungy as we can get so end the chilly era and lets get going on the Frazier era and while we are at it get Tjack on the same bus as Chilly.
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