Which NFL QB would you like to see wearing Viking purple in 2011?
by KC Viking on Dec 15, 2010 9:08 PM CST
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PrintAlthough the Vikes may have a top ten draft pick in the offseason, it will not necessarily be high enough to draft a franchise QB. Assuming that nobody falls to them and no teams are offering a trade up, which of these QBs would you like to see in Minnesota in 2011? Unlike a draftee, these guys could start in 2011.
(Drumroll please...the list of QBs and a poll after the jump)
One if by trade:
Vince Young: The only guy to lose his starting job for throwing the top half of his uni into the stands could be our guy for considerably less than a first round draft choice or a package of picks. In terms of on-field performance, the proverbial light in VY's head(case) seems to have turned on, and that could benefit the Vikings; however, he costs more than the other options and comes with some degree of risk.
Two if by age:
Chad Pennington: The fact that this guy gets injured every other year is insurance that whoever he tutors (and he has reportedly been a good mentor in previous stops) will get to see the field soon.
Kyle Orton: When Josh McDaniels traded Cutler for draft picks and Orton, I thought that he should be fired then; however, Orton blossomed in Denver while Cutler stumbled in Chicago, and McDaniels was fired anyway. If the Broncos decide to go with Tebow, Orton could be available.
Unsexy utilitarians:
Troy Smith: This guy's NFL story is exactly what the Vikings should be looking for. Smith was a highly rated QB in college until he had a poor bowl game and dropped out of the first round. Even if Troy Smith is benched in QB-needy San Francisco, it would only prove that the Niners organization can't spot a good QB, even when one is on their roster. The Vikings should take a very close look at him in my humble opinion.
Trent Edwards: I am confident that he would be better than Gus Frerotte and several other Chilly-era QBs and may possibly worth being The Guy if he can replicate or improve upon his 2008.
Unlikelies:
Donovan McNabb or Michael Vick: Vick is probably staying in PHI and WAS will probably be willing to write a check big enough to make McNabb stay put if Shanahan wants him there, but there is a small chance that at least one of these guys could hit the FA market.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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v.y
i think if he hasnt killed himself by now then he aint gonna haha…..heck maybe a fresh start would light a fire in him i think hed look good in purple
I could live with three of the six you mentioned.
Vick, Orton, and Young would all be successful with the Vikings if we could acquire them. Young and Orton have contracts for next year so unless they’re released we’d have to trade for them. I’d love to get Vick but I just can’t picture Philly letting him go. As for Edwards, Pennington, and Troy Smith I’m not interested at all. Pennington was a smart efficient QB but that was about three shoulder surgeries ago and I don’t think he can make it through even half a season of NFL football at this point. Edwards showed early promise but after a nasty concussion a couple years ago he seems to have lost either the awareness or will to be a good NFL QB. Smith isn’t bad but he seems destined to be a career backup type to me.
by CanadianViking on Dec 15, 2010 11:27 PM CST reply actions
I would be interested in Kolb instead of Vick
I can’t see Philly getting rid of Vick and I think Kolb is good enough that he won’t want to spend his career as a back up.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Kolb
He is intriguing. I don’t know what to think of him yet, but the fact that they passed on improving their team with the SB window open to draft him and then discarded McNabb to start him must mean that he’s good. That or else it’s the biggest poker bluff ever.
Yeah I'm in the same seat
Plus he did play well when he had a chance. Especially after Vick got injured.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Question...Vick is a free agent after this season, right?
So Philly will have to bid on him like the rest of the league. Ultimately Vick will have the choice, and with his money issues, I would be surprised if he doesn’t go to the highest bidder.
I’m always befuddled by the comments “I’d be surprised if Philly let’s him go”, but they may not have a…ah…cat in the fight. Unless I don’t understand his contract correctly.
I would still prefer Kolb, but Philly does have him signed, and would have to trade him to lose control of his contract.
Here’s to hoping a reasonable CBA can be reached, and that the Vikes can be bold in the offseason.
Maybe:
1. Trade McKinnie and Berrian in a package for…anything.
2. Drop Madieu, Tahi, Lewis, Baskett-replace thru the draft and FA. (sidenote: Keep Cammy).
3. Acquire a veteran QB who can manage the game, and make all of the throws (including the deep ball).
4. Offer new lucrative contracts to Sid, Greenway, Robison, and AP.
5. Pick up Vincent Jackson (or send Joe Webb to CC’s Wide Reciever camp).
6. Let Ray-Ray go to FA (see the Roby/Griffen tandem).
7. Draft OL and CB’s like its going out of style.
8. Coach? IDK. I like Frazier and the price might be right.
9. Add Velvet’s girl to be the full time Vikings sideline reporter.
10. Chewbacca…I know I’m beating a dead horse, but think of all the positions and packages we could produce with a 9 foot tall monster on our team (he’s quick, really quick). If Chewbacca’s too pricey, bring in Yoda as our QB coach…“Manage the game you will, focus the force, turnovers no more I think”.
SKOL VIKES!!!!
Charlie Murphy
If he sucks as a QB he at least can cook Johnsonville Brats!
But seriously given your list Orton is my choice……I would however like us to see if a reasonable trade could be worked with Baltimore for Flacco.
A bird in the hand is worth about 10.99 at KFC and makes me lick my chops
Yummy!!!!!
why on earth would the Ravens even think about getting rid of Flacco?
If we were to pick anyone up from there I would think it would be Gaither.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Me likes Gaither..
Flacco (muffled churtle), um, not gonna happen. +1 Grime…
I’m pretty sure the Ravens went crazy building an offense around Flacco (I.E. Boldin, Housh, Stallworth). I seriously doubt he’s available.
We have a better shot at Chewbacca (see my post above).
SKOL VIKES!!!
Who is young enough and good enough to give the Vikings years of service?
BTW- Nice Article
Michael is football younger than his age. If available it will be at a huge salary. He does know how to run a WCO. He is absolutely the right choice.
Vince has the tools if the coach is sure he can keep Vince grounded. There is a reason the rookie of the year never reappeared. And that was under the tutelage of a very good coach.
Orton is Orton. Not flashy but dependable. Can he win a SB? Probably not.
Troy Smith was benched for Alex Smith. He had his opportunity but did not perform well. Sounds like a T-Jack story all over again.
If we can’t get Mike then do whatever it takes to find and get the right guy in the draft.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
Not bad
Only point I would disagree on would be Orton. Don’t need a flashy QB to win. Just someone decent enough. Look at Dilfer, Stabler, hell, even Joe Namath was an average QB at best with a 170 TD’s vs. 220 INT’s lifetime. I would put Orton as someone who could do very well on a decent team, excellent on a loaded team. I would go with him if he became available for the right price. He propped up Chicago for a short time, and until the Broncos imploded, was doing a good job propping them up as well.
Vikings 2010: Episode 2, A New Hope - The Alliance for Vikings sanity have struck back. The evil Childress has been fired. Hope has been reinstated with the naming of Frazier as Head Coach.
by VikesFaninNM on Dec 16, 2010 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
The cupboard is bare in mid-season
Nothing screams “DESPERATE FOOTBALL TEAM” more than a phone call to Patrick Ramsey. A call to Jeff George would mean the team was dead and was calling all zombie players to rise up from their graves.
Vince Young – Probably the best of the bunch, when he isn’t busting a tear fit. Give me Baby-Face Cutler before Cry-Baby Vince Young. Every time I see him cry, it makes me want to kick his tail hard enough to give him something serious to really cry about.
Chad Pennington – He was my pick…. 2 years ago. He’s pretty used up now, though.
Kyle Orton – No Chicago retreads, please. Something perverse about the situation we’d have, where we passed on Cutler so Chicago got him, but we pick up Chicago’s leavings, Orton. No. Just no.
Trent Edwards – Why not? He’s got to be better than Patrick Ramsey, but he’s no more The Guy than is Tarvaris Jackson.
Vick or McNabb – Yes. But is fortune likely to smile like that? Not if this year is any predictor.
I threw my vote behind your new guy, Troy Smith. Don’t know anything about him except your vouch, KC, but I know you’re a huge numbers guy and apparently this guy has the numbers to impress you.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Thanks, DC
I actually voted for Pennington. I may want that vote back if Joe Webb is terrible on Monday night because Chad wouldn’t give the team 2 years to develop a guy, but I still believe that he can help a team for about 1-2 years, and that should be all that is necessary.
I am a numbers guy most of the time. When it comes to QBs, I am an accuracy guy first and foremost. I don’t care about style points or arm strength or even mobility (although it is usually a plus) so long as the QB is accurate. From what little I’ve seen, Troy Smith has looked like the accurate passer he was in college prior to his Bowl game implosion. Since the Niners are far from a good team and he posted a similar passer rating in BAL, I believe that his career passer rating of 80 (the minimum for being good by today’s standards in my opinion) is valid, repeatable, and something that could probably improve with experience and a good team around him. I like the idea of getting him via FA and improving the OL with 1st and 2nd round draftees than reaching for a QB in the first and not being able to protect him.
I didn’t mention this guy in the article, but Tony Pike could probably be had, too. At least one source I read had suggested that he may have been the most accurate passer of his draft class, and Carolina is probably going to draft a QB again this year.
Intangibles
I believe that accuracy and strength can both be trained, and when you’re working with the cream of the athletic crop, there’s no reason in the world why they can’t get better in both categories if they have good trainers and they’re willing to put in the effort. Tark had a noodle-arm but I remember the training regimen he used to put himself through (his choice, he did it at home through the off-season) to strengthen that arm up so that he could keep the opposition honest by airing out the occasional 60-80 yard pass and improve his accuracy when throwing, even while he was being tackled. Teachable, trainable, in top athletes.
When I look at quarterbacks, I’m most interested in the non-athletic things. The stuff that really can’t be improved unless the seed is already there. Does he have poise? Grace under pressure? Is he calm? Does he go through his progressions or is he panicked into a fast dump every play? When he’s about to be sacked and throws the ball away, does he recognize that the proper way to do it is over the heads of all the receivers near the sideline or does he try to force it? When he drops back, is his stance natural or contrived, awkward? Does he recognize defenses and adjust to take advantage of them? Yes, I know the NFL is a lot faster than college, but a lot of college guys don’t have it. Do they understand that as the captain of the offense, they are the head of the body, other players are his arms, his legs, his shoulders, and he needs to utilize them accordingly and instinctively.
Tebow is a great example of a failure waiting to happen. Hell of an athlete, he has the will to learn, to be molded, the ability. But he has some nasty intangibles to overcome, the main one being that with all that ability came a tendency to rely on his physicality to force success. That’s a liability in the captain of a team sport, and I believe that’s Webb’s biggest disadvantage. Guys like him (and T-Jack, and Vick) think that they have to make the play happen by themselves AND that they have the physical ability to pull it off all by themselves. Maybe not consciously, but at some level they’re thinking it. They see the gap, they rabbit. What they should be doing is creating opportunities for their receivers to get open, and they can do that with scrambling, pump fakes, fake stares, bootlegs, scrambling, roll in the opposite direction of where their receivers are going to develop so that coverage is thin there. They don’t have time to think about it, they have to see it, recognize it, make the right decision and do it.
Look at that damnfool Aaron Rogers; he dashed for 18 yards and then decided to put his shoulder down and force his way past a linebacker. He bought that concussion, paid for it in full. We’ve seen the same stupidity out of T-Jack more than once.
On the other, an example of a very good young QB who has all the intangibles and trainable physicality, is John Skelton. We could have had him in the 3rd (still annoyed that the Vikes didn’t grab him). You watch Skelton’s college footage, you won’t see much flash. In fact, there’s none. What he does do, however, is get the job done, one yard at a time. He’s patient, he knows what his arms and legs (the other members of the team) and he does it. He doesn’t panic, when his line crumbles he throws it away INTELLIGENTLY rather than eating an unnecessary sack. At 6’6", he’s got the height to see over the linemen and survey the field, see the plays developing. His calm inspires the team to settle down and play with confidence, together, as a team. I think he may very well be the next Brees, maybe even a Brady.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Nice little write-up
I recall seeing some short footage of Vick this year. He had amazing pocket time on a few plays and I really liked how he planted his feet well and scanned the field for open receivers.
I think T-Jack seems a little lost and maybe panicks too much. I think he goes directly to a receiver the play is designed for.
Tarvaris Jackson
His real problem is that he’s been in the league for too long now to get any passes on an inability to read the D and adjust.
He’s been practicing against the Vikings D, which, until this year, was pretty formidable, so he’s had plenty of opportunity to get better. But it hasn’t happened.
I think T-Jack has proved himself as a QB who isn’t ready for anything but garbage-time play. Honestly, a 3rd string QB because you don’t want to hand him the reins when your #1 goes down.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
yes, intangible attributes is what the good ones have. who to get and how is the real puzzle.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Intangibles are important, but they aren't everything
Depending on the source, Tarvaris Jackson and Tim Tebow have been said to have the intangibles of which you speak (especially Tebow).
I don’t think that Aaron Rodgers was any sort of fool. I think that he tried to make a play and got hit with some bad luck. John Elway, Daunte, and so many other QBs have made similar plays without the injury result and been praised for their toughness and playmaking ability rather than called some sort of fool.
I don’t buy into a QB needing to be 6’2"+, either. Not all OLs are the same height, and rolling out can be a normal and effective practice, too, especially if the QB can roll out to either side.
I don’t believe that an inaccurate QB can be made into an accurate passer at the NFL level. JaMarcus Russell is a perfect example of that.
I've never seen evidence
of accuracy being trainable. I’ve seen arm strength be easier to develop than accuracy.
I’ve never heard anyone say Tavaris “flatline” Jackson had intangibles, or football IQ.
But I do agree about the height issue. Lots of exceptional QBs are 6’…or less, historically. It’s just a matter of learning to throw from different arm slots. Which most short QBs have already learned and most taller ones don’t accept they have to learn even when they’ve seen defensive linemen jump 10’ in the air to swat down their passes.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 16, 2010 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
Accuracy is trainable, and height increases visibility
You may not believe either statement, and that’s your choice.
My experience leads me to believe otherwise.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Show us a QB where accuracy was trained.
They had 5 years to train TJack, he’s as inaccurate as ever. I’ve never seen a single NFL QB who’s had accuracy trained to an acceptable standard who entered the league as an inaccurate passer.
Sure, height increases visibility. But short QBs have typically already learned how to adapt. That’s part of life as being…short, you know?
Short also lets you duck charging tackler, enabling him to extend plays and break the pocket when things break down. You may not believe ‘that’ statement. But my experience makes me believe otherwise.
Bottom line, height in a QB is overrated.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 17, 2010 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
Napoleon
Show us a QB where accuracy was trained.
If I had access to the NFL’s training records, who did the training, what training they did, and how much they performed, I could answer your challenge. Nothing else would do so. That doesn’t mean you’re correct, however. Only that, for some unknown reason, NFL teams won’t provide me with their training regimens and results :)
As I said, I’m telling you this based on my experience, and what I’ve read from NFL quarterbacks who did train for both accuracy and throwing power. The NFL has cut down it’s training time considerably over the years. Earlier this year, Goodell spoke about the way NFL training camps have shortened from 3 months long back in the ‘70s, to 2 weeks long now, and how he felt more playing time just resulted in more injuries. Once upon a time, the theory was that more practice resulted in stronger bodies and fewer injuries. I don’t have the injury numbers to do a comparison and I’m not sure if they’d be valid if I did; back in the ’70s, players were even more prone to play through an injury than they are today.
T-Jack may have been on the Vikings’ roster for 5 years, but that doesn’t mean that he got sufficient accuracy training during that time. Everything I’ve heard from the NFL suggests to me that, for the most part, they left it up to him to find his own way, focusing more on teaching the playbook and how to read defenses, and knowing his receivers. That’s a lot, in and of itself, but it’s not the same as accuracy training.
Being able to “adapt” to being short is not the same has having a natural height advantage. I totally agree that being short makes it easier to avoid being tackled, but that’s about the extent of it. It doesn’t make it easier to extend a play or roll out of the pocket, etc.
Sounds to me like you’re offering your experience as a short guy, and I’m offering mine as a tall guy, lol. The difference, however, is that there’s a wealth of historical data to demonstrate that height provides greater visibility which provides greater field intelligence and offers more opportunity to act on that intelligence. As every army since the Romans at least, will attest.
Height in a QB probably is overrated, I’m not arguing that. I’ve seen how the QBs are weighted and the new “ideal” is at least 6’4" for a prototype QB. But for you to suggest that height isn’t an advantage is, quite frankly, ludicrous.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I didn't say height wasn't an advantage.
I just said it’s not NEARLY as much of an advantage as it’s made out to be. Being 6’ shouldn’t be a red flag. But it is, mainly because scouts are locked into the self-perpetuating “prototype.”
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 17, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions
Addendum
IMO, Accuracy is easier to improve than throwing power. Thowing power is not a direct translation of how many curls you can lift.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Yet I 'have' seen
QBs obviously more capable of throwing an out going from 1 year to the next. I’ve never seen a QB become NFL-caliber accurate who wasn’t when he was drafted. It just doesn’t happen.
Even more often, I’ve seen QBs whose arm strength was grossly underrated by scouts (see Brady, Tom, Montana, Joe). Accuracy is a simple eyeball test. But scouts ignore it.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 17, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
Got to agree with you here
I rank accuracy as one of the most important things for a QB to have. If you can’t get someone the ball then everything else you do is a waste of time.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
QBs obviously more capable of throwing an out going from 1 year to the next.
Could you re-state that?
I’ve never seen a QB become NFL-caliber accurate who wasn’t when he was drafted. It just doesn’t happen.
No QB who isn’t fairly accurate is going to make through the college ranks, let alone get drafted. That doesn’t mean his accuracy can’t improve.
Even more often, I’ve seen QBs whose arm strength was grossly underrated by scouts (see Brady, Tom, Montana, Joe).
Not sure if you noticed this, but after I saw you being so literal, I changed my wording from “arm strength” to “throwing power”. It was a deliberate choice because it’s just not as simple as a matter of how strong a man’s arm is. More than that, a lot depends on how many throws the QB has made before heaving the big one, there’s a distinction between warming up and being tired or strung out.
Accuracy is a simple eyeball test. But scouts ignore it.
Have you ever thrown a football? Seriously? You can’t really believe that accuracy is just “a simple eyeball test”.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
T-Jack has never demonstrated any of those “intangibles”. Ever.
Tebow’s only intangible has been his leadership ability. And that’s great, important to have, but it isn’t everything. The captain of a team needs to be able to use all the members of the team in coordination, to know how they fit together and use them to best advantage, adaptively to the opposition.
I don’t mean to suggest that a good QB has to be super-tall, but I will maintain that it’s a huge help. Huge. It means he can see over everyone’s head, he can throw the ball in a flatter trajectory with less chance of it getting batted down or intercepted, he can see the play developing on both sides. All things being equal between QBs, I’ll take the taller one.
On this I have to differ with you, KC; Rodgers was the worst kind of fool. So much so that he should be fined by the Packers for his stupidity. He deliberately threw himself into a brutally physical impact which he COULD NOT WIN, and worse, he put his throwing arm at risk. He’s a QB, not a TE. Sprain his pinky finger and he can’t throw the damned ball. Granted, Rodgers is young and will learn not to do such stupid stuff in the future, but that what he did was prime-dumb, is indisputable.
Sure, it’s impressive when you see a QB throw himself into the fray. It shows that they’re tough, gutsy, willing to mix it up. Does that make it any less stupid? No. These guys have a raft of special protections around them, courtesy of the NFL rulebook, for a reason. They’re the highest paid position, for a reason. They’re the cornerstone of a team, for a reason. Whether Rodgers was injured or not, regardless of who did it in the past and got away with it, doesn’t make what he did any less stupid. I think it should be worth at least a $20,000 fine.
On learning to be more accurate…. yes, it’s trainable. It’s absolutely trainable. The rebuttal would naturally be, if it’s trainable, why don’t more QBs have better accuracy? My answer is simple; they don’t train hard enough, or long enough, to get it. Most of them can be more accurate if they have the right training, and they put in the time to get there. The NFL doesn’t believe in mandating extended training periods any more, however. Natural athletic ability rules the day.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Speaking of height as a QB..
not to bring up old stuff…but the vertically challenged Bree’s could have been had by the Vikes a few years back…
I’m not sure what my point is, but I had a moment where I wished we had pulled that trigger…
Other shorties (in support of your comment) Montana (oh wait, he’s 6’2")..um..I’m all out..Every starting QB in the NFL is 6’2" or taller right now…with the exception of Bree’s, and they have him listed as 6ft (but we all know that’s a lie).
Maybe I’m forgetting somebody.
SKOL VIKES!!!
6'2"
is short to an NFL scout. And most doubted he was that tall…to a scout, anything below 6’4" is “too short.”
Tarkenton was ‘listed’ @ 6’ (was probably 5’11"), too. My point is, it’s grossly overrated as an attribute.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 17, 2010 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
You may be right about the math there, but I really doubt that Favre plays another year with his streak broken.
2011 has too many ? marks
Lock-out?
Too many people to re-sign
Stadium issue
Reduced Cap?
Pretty sure Favre will retire. His streak is gone, and he may feel as if he stayed 1 year too long.
Plus I think Frazier will make it mandatory he shows up for TC.
Yuck.... they're all average.
I disagree as well with the entire post. I do think the vikes have a high enough draft pick. Like I’ve posted before, maybe Carolina bails out on Jimmy, but if we didn’t bail on your 2nd round QB after his rookie season… they won’t. Bills have much much bigger needs then QB, probably something to help out that 32nd rush defense. Cardinals should take the first QB, but now there’s all this talk that Fitz want’s another Boldin, so maybe they go A.J. Green or Julio. Then it’d be the 49ers, who might end up better then us. I strongly believe Ryan Mallet and Cam Newton will fall to our pick. Our Franchise will be here soon Viking Nation.
...add #4 to the mix and see what you get... Championship.
I would love to be wrong
I hope that you are absolutely correct that the Vikes will find their franchise QB in this draft. Let’s say that they do…won’t they still need a stopgap?
Jake Locker is also possibly worth a first round pick, and he could be available.
oh boy...
vince young:
i say “just say no”. he’s a great athlete, and he has a great skill set, but he isn’t smart. but mainly cuz he isn’t a reliable guy. and his leadership skills are sorely lacking. i wanna stay away from him because i don’t think he will be any different than he is now. a change of scenery will probably do him good, but i want someone without baggage. he’s acted out too many times for me. he needs a baby sitter.
chad pennington:
how many career ending shoulder surgeries can a guy come back from? i dunno but, i don’t want an aging, over injured, journeyman qb who is held together by scar tissue. i just don’t see the future in it.
i think we should get him as a qb coach and future offensive coordinator.
kyle orton:
given our current situation, his abilities and the current situation in denver. this looks like one of the better options to me. he has improved each year and he has done so while in situations that are unstable with his job security in question and changing systems.
he is still fairly young and can throw a really nice pass. he’s not flashy, but i think he has proven that he can play in the league. he is under contract for about $9 million next year and it looks like upheaval in denver. if urban meyer ends up there to work with tebow, he will also need to beef up their defense, so they need a lot of pieces and could be a good trading partner….where we end up with orton and don’t have to give up picks and don’t have to break the bank if we get him. then we can structure a reasonable extention for him after we figure out who else we can get (i.e. if we can draft a good qb prospect). that way we could formulate a game plan of how to handle the qb situation for the next 2-4 years.
troy smith:
he’s not bad. i think he is a winner, but he needs playing time. i think he is a solid back-up qb and would not mind having him as a back-up, but he is a 6-footer with mobility. i would only want him as a back up and to a qb who has similar physical make-up and athletic attributes, so the play-calling does not have to change a lot if we put him in the game. i think he’d be a good guy to have on the roster, though.
trent edwards:
yawn. another good back up prospect, imo. but i don’t want to get him in here to have him
“compete for the starting job”. that just smells like another “brooks rosenfiedler”.
donovan mcnabb:
i hate to say it, but he might be available this offseason. washington is on the hook for $40 million guaranteed if they keep him for next year (not sure of the deadline). but i don’t get the impression that shanahan likes him very much. shanahan is a hardcore winner, and donovan is kind of a wishy-washy pussy, imo. he doesn’t seem like the type of guy that shanahan will tolerate. but, i think he would be a decent short term solution for the vikes. if we can get him as a free agent, or in a trade where we stipulate that he restructure that crazy expensive contract….and that we draft someelse that we WANT to have run the show.
micheal vick:
i am happy for him that he has found a home in philly. they took a chance on him and it looks like it is going to pay off alright for them. but no way do i see philly letting him get away after this season, and i don’t see him wanting to play anywhere else. he has killer weapons in philly, and that offense works great with him. if they can’t sign him, i think they will franchize him for $16million next year.
plus, i personally don’t want him in minnesota. dog murdering aside (and the difficulty of having to explain to nice kids why it’s okay to cheer for a guy who tortures house pets and commited heinous crimes), i don’t want a guy 31 year old qb that relies on his legs and quickness to escape unblocked d-lineman in order to make a play. he is going to get hit a lot, and he is going to get hurt again. for an offense to be effective with him in there, it needs to be predicated on utilizing athleticism. i just don’t see him morphing smoothly into a pocket passer and being a drew brees. i just think it is risky.
kevin kolb:
he is under contract for $1.4 million next year. he will cost philly the same as t-jack cost us this year (less than half of what rosencopter cost). and he knows their system. i think there is no way philly parts with him unless they can screw someone over in a trade, like a team so desparate for a qb that they look at his measly stats and put on purple colored glasses and think they have found the lost holy grail. too risky, imo. so i say, see my comments on trent edwards. i would take him as a back-up, and he does better, then great, but at back up pay.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
Biggest surprise so far and an anecdote about VY
I can’t believe that VY is getting so little love in the poll. I had expected Chad Pennington to be the 2nd lowest (I understand why so many want to steer clear of Pennington, but would they also have avoided Mark Schlereth in his day because of his multiple surgeries?) and not even close, but it is fairly close between him and Vince Young.
Listen: I rarely watch college football. Every year, I say I’m going to get into it since I always enjoy the game or two that I catch on the tube, but I never really spend the time on it. I don’t really believe in divine intervention, but that’s what it felt like when I watched Vince Young win the Rose Bowl a few years ago. My then-girlfriend and I were channel surfing through most of the game, and I noted the time and score when we came back to it in the 4th quarter. “Hmm, this may not be over…” (as I flashed back to the 1988 WS when Kirk Gibson was at the plate and the 1992 or 1993 21-20 come from behind win vs. Chicago) and then came the storybook ending that we all know (if you’re a Longhorns fan or neutral football fan and less so if you’re a USC fan for some reason). Throw in the fact that the Titans have won with him more than they have without him and it’s clear that if there ever was such a thing as a winner, it could be VY. As much as I respect what Orton has done in the past two years, there can’t be much more upside there, especially compared to VY. With all due respect to Troy Smith (my 2nd favorite), he hasn’t accomplished as much as VY (but would cost less, to his credit).
What is this really about? Where is the love for VY? How can he be 5 votes behind Troy Smith and only 3 ahead of Chad Pennington? Do people doubt his ability? Is it all about his attitude and (im)maturity? Is he really a lost cause?
I’d guess it’s his attitude. “People” have said that’s he just not a leader. I don’t know whether or not that’s really true but it’s something worth noting. I think the guy is just kind of a head case. He seems to be one of those “my way, or the highway” guys. Though, if you guys have a coach that can control him, maybe it wouldn’t be a problem. I kind of doubt it though, since not even Fisher has been able to control him.
He is talented though without a doubt. Before he got injured this season, he looked much better as a pocket passer. I actually thought it was going to be kind of a turning point for him. So much for that.
The guy I’d want in your situation is Orton. He was mediocre with Bears but so was their offensive coordinator. I think he’s shown in Denver that he can get the job done passing the ball when he needs too.
I don’t think Vick will be available or McNabb,
by packallday555 on Dec 16, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
i hear what you are saying about vince young
but i still am leary when he just had that episode this year with fischer, who is probably one of the better coaches to have in dealing with players. that whole throwing of the shoulder pads up into the stands incident is what i am refering to. i think he is a winner, just that he needs to be monitored and you never know if/when that stuff will happen again.
as for orton, i still think he will improve. he seems like he has the focus and wok ethic to keep finding ways to improve his game. he’s not the end-all, but i think he is a stable choice, you know what you are getting. who else is there? brady quinn? josh johnson? matt leinert? matt moore? steve deberg?
i wonder if cincinati will make carson palmer available.
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
VY doesn't have that undefinable 'it'
What is the ‘it’ that a QB has to have? Like the supreme court justice that said ‘I can’t define porn, but I know what it is when I see it’ I know what that ‘it’ is. Call it heart, leadership, intangibles, a combination of all three, I don’t know. VY hasn’t got it.
Favre did/does, I think Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford have it. Don’t know about Jay Cutler, but he’s getting there. Everyone on your list save Trent Edwards has it, save for Young…that I want the ball and the pressure.
I would slam my head on this keyboard 4,107 times if the Vikings sign Vince Young. He’s a bad game away from the UFL.
The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota
"A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed."
It's the crying
Him and John Boehner.
I just don’t like it :)
Maybe I’m too antiquated in my views, more of a John Wayne sort of fan than a Sean Penn.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Wow, not much to pick from
VY—Severe head case. I’ll pass
Pennington—I would think that after all the shoulder surgeries he’s done.
Kyle Orton—Why would Denver trade him? I don’t think Tebow will make the jump to the level that Orton is at, so I don’t see Denver trading Orton. But he;s the best of the bunch in the list.
Troy Smith—As an OSU fan, I will always have a soft spot in my heart for number 10. Very inconsistent as a pro, though. Could he do well throwing to Percy and Sid? Yeah, I think so, but he could also bomb.
McNabb/Vick—McNabb is Favre redux, only less talented and less charismatic. I think McNabb is done. THe Eagles won’t let Vick get away; I just don’t see it. So if the Eagles keep Vick, I would think that…
Kevin Kolb— might be able to be traded for. A third round pick could do it. What? We don’t have a third round pick because we used that to trade for Randy Moss and then released him?
I would make Brad Childress remove snow at TCF in a speedo for that.
The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota
"A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed."
Classic last line...
Except, the speedo part? We want to attract volunteers, not scare them away.
Honestly at this point I would just like to see an NFL QB on our team...
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
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