New head coach needed
by medicineball on Dec 21, 2010 6:44 PM CST
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PrintA lot of players like Percy Harvin, Antoine Winfield, and others continue to play hard. They are self-motivated.
Many players, however are not self-motivated. They have stopped playing hard. A vacuum of leadership has been created, and no one is filling it. Childress was fired. Favre ran out of gas this season. Now he gets knocked out of two games. E.J. Henderson is still too quiet to be an effective on-field leader. With Favre previously out of gas and now out of the picture, we have no player leaders doing anything to rally the team.
Interim coach Leslie Frazier has not successfully motivated players to do anything but play OK for two games. Since then, they are flat. The players aren't responding to him. Many Vikings players have weak internal fortitudes, and are afraid of the cold. No one is pushing the Vikings players to be all they can be.
Brad Childress was a guru who specialized in the run game. Childress set up the defense. We had a great run defense, and Childress was a big part of it. Frazier just inherited it. Now that Childress is gone, Frazier doesn't know what to do to make the defense work. It is completely breaking down. Our offensive line is in complete shambles, and Frazier is doing nothing to help because he doesn't know what to do with it.
Frazier is just clueless.
We need a head coach with a great football mind. That is not Leslie Frazier.
Frazier has had his chance, and he will have another two games to prove himself as a head coach. I hope he does, even if I doubt he will overcome the negative impression he has created so far.
I don't know who we should get as a head coach, but we need a football genius.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Sad
thought if Leslie finished 4-2 with 2 close losses it would prove something. I thought the player would rally around him. NOT!
There is a group of about 6 starters that need to go. They don’t put out for the team but for their pocketbooks.
Giben the chance I would love to go into that locker room and take my shirt off and show someof these players what determination is! How doe a man teach himself to stand and walk when every muscle in his back and hips were literally cut away? And some of these guys are whining about this and that. If ya wanna win ya better be determined!
I will play every play as if the score is tied/ I will not walk off a loser!
AKA : Revenge4Webb
Pink Slips
There is a group of about 6 starters that need to go.
The Walking Papers List;
Bryant McKinnie
Bernard Berrian
Madieu Williams
Tarvaris Jackson
Phat Pat (we’ll miss ya, bud!)
Brett Favre (we’ll miss him like thunder, but like Pat… it’s time to say good night)
Up for very close review;
Sullivan
Cook
Hussein
Abdullah
Tyrell Johnson
Most of the slew of QBs we’ve recently signed because, you know, you can’t have too many third-rate QBs.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I'd
shift Sullivan, Abdullah, and T Johnson to the top list, and McKinnie to the ‘review’ with the caveat he’s done as LT.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 23, 2010 6:06 PM CST up reply actions
I need to read your response to the LT vs RT thing.
On Abdullah, the guy’s done alright on ST, I don’t think he was ever meant to be a featured saftey. We let Colt Anderson go and now the guy’s on the active roster in Philly.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I'd have to agree
with this list. Perhaps Bevell as well, and just revamp the coaching staff on the offense.
Something tells me, if he, and I hope he is, still around next season, Frazier is switching to a better defensive scheme.
Vikings 2010: Episode 2, A New Hope - The Alliance for Vikings sanity have struck back. The evil Childress has been fired. Hope has been reinstated with the naming of Frazier as Head Coach.
by VikesFaninNM on Dec 23, 2010 9:21 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree with this completely
The simple fact is that Frazier inherited this mess from Chilly who was in charge of personnel.
Throw in the fact that the home field advantage was lost this past two weeks under very unusual circumstances and it was very tough on players and coaches.
The Vikings are NOT an outdoor team and really play much better in the Metrodome where they enjoy a pretty good HFA.
To disregard this and then claim Frazier is not motivating the players while Chilly is a genius is ridiculous.
If I recall correctly Chilly got the job without ever being a head coach in the NFL. Now all of a sudden Fraizer needs to audition in these circumstances. Why is that?
It is a bunch of baloney. If he was not a good coach then why has he been interviewed seven times for head coaching positions? Is it only to satisfy the Rooney rule?
Calling Chily a “guru” is really not based in fact. What is he a guru of? Having huge offensive linemen run the zone blocking system? Developing TJack into the franchise caliber QB that he is today? Installing the kick ass offense?
Since Chilly arrived in 2006 they have added Edwards, Greenway, Robsion, & Griffen via the draft and Allen, Leber, & Madieu via free agency. the Williamses were already here as was EJ & Winfield.
Implying that he built the defense is stretching the truth. He certainly has not helped out the secondary since he has arrived. If you want to give him credit then give him all the credit including presiding over one of the worse secondaries in the NFL. He was in charge of personnel.
Now all of a sudden it is Frazier’s fault.
Maybe they do get a new coach but Frazier is not the problem.
Of course I could be all wrong.
My point is that not only is this team not better since Childress was fired and Frazier was promoted, it’s worse. The defense is worse, too. We are getting run over like crazy now.
Frazier was supposed to be a coach who specialized in the secondary play. He has had four years to turn our secondary around. Last year they weren’t terrible, but still were below average.
Frazier has had a strong hand in personnel decisions. He wanted Chris Cook drafted, and he got him. Frazier brought in Madieu Williams, who was initially pretty good, but has declined in the past two years.
Frazier has not been effective in coaching up our young secondary players. Other than Abdullah, none have improved much.
I would like to analyze this season’s stats and see how the run defense is doing and compare it between the Childress regime and the Frazier regime. I have a hunch that it is worse under Frazier.
by medicineball on Dec 22, 2010 7:40 AM CST up reply actions
No Strong Opinion Yet!!
I haven’t made up my mind yet if I think Frazier is the right guy or not, I do know the change needed to be made. My only question to you would be, if he is such agreat coach, and has been interviewed 7 times, why had he not been hired by any other team? No, I do not blame any of this on Frazier, but I am also not quite ready to annoint him the savior of the Vikings!!
If you didn't try too defend Klink
you’d have a valid argument.
Honestly, I think everything in the coaching staff and FO that has Klink’s smell on it needs to go.
agree
not sure Frazier is the answer but the Quiting of some guys is still evident. These guys are not the same team and I don’t understand what that is and If me or anyone else could figure that out we could get paid alot of money soooooooooooooooooo
Thoughts
All honetsly Ive read all the posts and I’m not being insultive but posts from jettising franchise RB to dang near the entire team. And now this one…There is no way the way this team is overall from the 3rd to 4th game it was reconizable and I got ripped because I made the statement " what you see now of this team is what you are going to get". Im no genious but come on you guys seen enough football? They were are still are not going to turn a corner or show any major difference. Its not beacuse they suck..Im tired of hearing that and its an real lack of football knowledge to say they suck. Yes it sucks all the accumilative variables have magnified a pure and simple break down that honestly was going to happen had they not gone to the SB this year. This team was built for the window last year. It has been well known the O line was running out of gas and would have to be addressed. As also we knew about the D line heck with the looming crap with the "MAYBE suspensions that didnt happen but either did any back up plan. So you throw in alot of things that honestly when they happened a weak coach as in player rally so forth and all the other negs happened. To even think or put any replacement coach in when Leslie took over that oh now its all going to change is just lack of some kind of thought. Cower, the tuna, Dungie ..sure guys would be like woo yeah..but if you really look at that point of the season all the things that were happening on the field off the field and think they coulda woulda coulda turned it around? Then honsetly your in another football world. And no where here in any iof these posts does anyone raise a real possibilty…some of the top names in coaching may have said “you know right now there is to much going on there to commit to coming in at this point talk to me at seasons end.” The Vikes are broken and yes it has alot to do with Childress as it does with the FO also. Because if Im an owner and I se some goofy stuff that the average fan see’s I call my coach and I say wtf? Chillie may have been told "I dont care how you do it or whyat this team needs long run we need a SB or at least a loss in one now. So yah forfit a future stable team to do that and “HOPE” no injuries no fumbles no interceptions basicly they went on the idea that last year would cary over and there were to many things wrong that last year didnt get revealed but were there that did get revealed this year. Had the gone this year and made the bowl they still needed next year to address the issues or it would rear its head. Sorry to ramble but honestly they were already broken and thats not a negative its just magnified beacuse so many of the what if variables did happen.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
Well, he hasn’t had any of his starting CB’s either, and he probably has the worst safety tandem in the league to work with as well. Not a good combination when you’re base defense is the cover 2. Asher Allen probably isn’t anything more than a nickel or dime guy, and Frank Walker is basically just a guy that gets brought on board mid way through the season when teams have a lot of guys injured. Neither of those guys tend to get re-routes on there guys, and that’s going to be a huge problem when one of your safety’s is constantly lost (Williams) and the other just doesn’t have much speed (Abdullah). Basically, any defense would struggle with that core of guys starting in their secondary.
It’s not really fair to judge the offense either. He’s had either no Favre or Peterson for a couple of games, two back-ups in at left and right guard, and Harvin out too until recently. If Childress had some combination of those guys out the offense would have looked equally as bad.
I don’t really think Frazier got a fair shake at things.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Dec 22, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Winfield is a starting cornerback. He has been playing all year.
Frazier brought in one of our safeties, Madieu Williams, and his play has been the most problematic of the group.
by medicineball on Dec 22, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Winfield’s been playing in the nickel in most of the games I’ve seen. Seems like the team has played quite a bit of nickel lately as teams have been spreading you guys out.
Was Frazier the one responsible for bringing in Williams?
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Dec 22, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Brad Childress was a guru who specialized in the run game.
ROTFL
in the future there will be no war...there will only be rollerball.
- or #2 against the run for each of his full years as Vikings head coach.
We always had a threatening running game offensively. Maybe not the best, but the threat always forced defenses to respect the running attack.
Childress took a lot of X and O knowledge of the running game with him.
by medicineball on Dec 25, 2010 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
Let's see here......
The Defense totally sucks and Frazier sucks…….well
2007 – Pass D ranked 32nd, Frazier’s first year
2008 – Pass D ranked 18th
2009 – Pass D ranked 19th
2010 – Pass D ranks 10th currently, ahead of Chicago, Philly oh, and what’s this, Pittsburgh. Uh oh, the Steelers better fire Tomlin, he sucks!!!!
2007 – Run D ranked 1
2008 – 1 again
2009 – Uh oh, #2, yep, he sucks!!!!
2010 – 8th!!! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!! Oh, also, in 2010, we are ahead of Philly and the Giants in the run category, but the D still sucks and so does Frazier.
Total Rankings
2007 – 20th
2008 – 6th
2009 – 6th
2010 – 6th???? Oh crap, can’t have consistency in the upper level! FIRE HIM NOW!!!!!!!
So basically, the Pass defense, though we do need some minor player tweaks, has gone from 32nd in Frazier’s first year to currently 10th. I don’t see how we suck there. Also, the Running D, until this year, was #1 with an overall ranking that went from sucking to the top 10 of the NFL 3 years straight. How does this make Frazier a crappy coach?
Yeah, the front line of the D has dropped of this year. Guess what, how old is the Williams Wall now? Who no longer needs to be double teamed as much anymore? Oh, and I still see teams throwing two players at Jared Allen. So guess what, we have old players up front, but 8th is horrible? Oh, I know, sorry, you’re right. They do suck because they don’t have a bazzillion sacks, so they must all now be shot!
Yeah, the backfield could use some tweaking, but the numbers show that not a whole hell of alot. Yeah, we’ve given up some big plays too on D, but what team doesn’t? We have a Defense that is ranked higher then most of the teams that are going to the playoffs including Chicago, Baltimore and Philly for Godsakes.
What does that tell you? Sure as hell isn’t the Defense that’s been killing us all season.
Try looking at an O-line that couldnt stop a pop tart from falling out of a paper bag, to our #1 WR being a dumb ass in the offseason and fore going needed surgery, a QB who should have retired after last season to a now departed anal retentive and controlling “guru”.
If anything, the D was keeping us in most of the season. You can only make so many patties before even the bull&hit (Offense) runs out. And the D was making do with what they got.
Under the circumstances, the D and Frazier were doing pretty damn good especially by NFL standards. Perhaps you should look at the offense and what you “guru” did to run int into the ground and what the players did to help make the offense implode.
Vikings 2010: Episode 2, A New Hope - The Alliance for Vikings sanity have struck back. The evil Childress has been fired. Hope has been reinstated with the naming of Frazier as Head Coach.
Oh, and I do want to add
Earlier this season, before our meltdowns with New England and the Packers, the D was actually ranked………you ready……..
HIGHER!!!!!!!!!
Vikings 2010: Episode 2, A New Hope - The Alliance for Vikings sanity have struck back. The evil Childress has been fired. Hope has been reinstated with the naming of Frazier as Head Coach.
by VikesFaninNM on Dec 22, 2010 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Let's be fair
Who did we draft # 1 in 2007? There is a reason pass defense improved since then. It is called time of possession. These stats are skewed badly. Tomlin left a great run defense behind for Frazier. Frazier has done nothing more than use a key player acquired by Spielman (Jared) to take a 32nd ranked pass defense to what it is today. There is NOTHING Frazier has done, that he can claim was his doing in this improvement. Nothing. He has no creativity. Still plays Tampa 2 which has all but been retired. And has given up 80 points in the last two weeks. Now tell me…why do I want him as my head coach?
by PurpleJesus on Dec 22, 2010 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Tomlin was here for only one year
Before leaving. Fraizer has been here since 2007, so that automatically throws out your Tomlin argument. So, you’re telling me, though you and others are complaining about bad players, it’s the players, or just one, that’s improved the defense, and that Frazier has had nothing to do with improving it through coaching?
Skewed? How? I didn’t pull them out of a hat just to make it look good. I did do some research. If they were skewed, then I guess the Williams Wall, Allen, that fact we held opponents to record low rushing yards and 2 consecutive North Championships must be badly skewed as well. Remember, 2008, we rode that season on the defense. Can’t skew that.
While Im not a fan of the Tampa 2, and it has been said through rumors that Frazier would get rid of it in the offseason. And if it was so horrible, I guess the past several seasons were anomalies?
Sorry, it’s only been 61 points the last two weeks. In that time, Philly gave up 65 and had to battle back to win, Baltimore gave up 52, even Chicago gave up 50. Does that mean their defensive schemes are out of date too? I don’t hear people screaming for changes or there is “no creativity” there. And if Fraizer suddenly got “creative” after he became head coach and changed everything dang near mid season and it took all that time to get it to work with teams still running up the score? You’re gonna tell me you still wouldn’t be calling for his head? That’s not being fair.
Vikings 2010: Episode 2, A New Hope - The Alliance for Vikings sanity have struck back. The evil Childress has been fired. Hope has been reinstated with the naming of Frazier as Head Coach.
by VikesFaninNM on Dec 22, 2010 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
Skewed...yes.
It is skewed by the fact our offensive improvement over that time. We drafted Peterson and began to run the ball all the time thereby taking pressure off our defense. Our offense improved so much that if you look a TOP it reduced defensive stats by as much as 10% making us look better than we are…. There is no doubt our defense is middle of the road and Leslie is NOT over performing with a defense that has what 5 probowlers? How many teams have 5 probowlers on defense? How many games did it take us to begin getting pressure on the defensive line this year and even when we started it is mild at best.
I exaggerated, obviously, how many points we gave up. Has anyone else given Chicago 40 points? How many teams have given Arizona 24 points? How many turnovers have we created all year? We are weak at best and that falls on the defensive scheme and coach. And trying to compare our defense to Chicago’s 50 points given up when most are when they played NE in 5 inches of snow is unfair. And Baltimore lives off their offense now, no longer the dominating defense of the past.
In 2008, the division was weak. We could have very easily lost the division that year and eventually handed Philly a game in the playoffs because of our defensive lapse.
Leslie has done nothing to improve the team as far as I have seen. Chilly could have won two games in the same stretch and that isn’t saying much.
At this point
out of respect, I will say let’s agree to disagree. While I think we both have valid points and counter points, think we’re both gonna stand put unless a tank comes along to push us out of the way.
And besides, given the time of year, and how I’ve seen other’s have a simple difference in opinion turn into a shouting war, rather not see it go down that road……
arm wrestle you for it? ;-)
But I do respect your opinion though.
Vikings 2010: Episode 2, A New Hope - The Alliance for Vikings sanity have struck back. The evil Childress has been fired. Hope has been reinstated with the naming of Frazier as Head Coach.
by VikesFaninNM on Dec 23, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
And the same to you!
Happy Holidays
Vikings 2010: Episode 2, A New Hope - The Alliance for Vikings sanity have struck back. The evil Childress has been fired. Hope has been reinstated with the naming of Frazier as Head Coach.
by VikesFaninNM on Dec 23, 2010 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
Ahh, science...
… my old friend.
Thanks for doing this so I didn’t have to. Good job! :)
Just out of curiosity
Are those rankings based on yards, or DVOA?
Now that Brad Childress is gone, the BCS needs to follow.
Ziggy has more decisions to make than just Frasier.
A head coach is a big hire. The last time he did it Ziggy went out and obtained one of the most sought after assistant coaches on the market. ( Hard to believe that he was once sought after isn’t it). Part of that decision process was made with the GM of the Vikings, Brezinski. After hiring Chilly they hired player personnel director, Rick Spielman.
Since we are debating hiring decisions, player evaluation decisions, and coaching schemes it is only fair to look at what Ziggy has to think about. Does he blow up the team from the top down or just tweak it? IS the failure of the Vikings an organization problem or a football problem?
As fans we always blame Chilly for the drafting errors. But the lack of a QB, decent safeties, and an old line can also be credited with a poor job by Mr. Spielman. The language in Chilly’s contract giving him to much control can be blamed on Mr. Brezinski.
The process of change is never easy. Good football teams have consistency from the top on down. If all is right with the management team then they will know if a new coach is needed or whether Frasier can handle the job. Another draft and a free agent season can do wonders. But if its a systemic issue then this could get really interesting.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
notice
Vikings defeat Eagles, 24-14.
Assuming the Vikings keep playing like that against the Lions, please consider my opinion retracted that a new head coach is needed—instead Frazier has shown enough and deserves to take the helm of the longboat as head coach.
I don't think this one game
undoes the two eggs the team laid in the previous weeks. Frazier may be the guy, he may not. I think he has to interview, like anyone else they look at.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 29, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
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