Vikings Pull Off Huge Upset, Cancel Vick's Coronation With 24-14 Win
I put my prediction out there before the game. . .all of you saw it. Tonight, in the home of Rocky Balboa, I fully expected the Eagles to play the role of Ivan Drago and the Vikings to play the role of Apollo Creed. Michael Vick was going to solidify his grip on the MVP award (for everyone in America that has, apparently, never heard of Tom Brady), and the Vikings were barely going to be a blip on the Eagles' radar on their way to playing for a potential first-round bye in Week 17.
But behind a performance of a first-time starting quarterback that looked like he had been playing for ten years, and a defensive performance the likes of which we haven't seen since. . .well, since last season. . .the Vikings pulled off one of the biggest upsets of 2010 by knocking off the Philadelphia Eagles and taking them out of the race for a first-round bye in the NFC playoffs.
Joe Webb looked poised, confident, and in control this evening running the Vikings' offense, going a respectable 17-for-26 for 195 yards. He didn't have a passing touchdown, though he did have one taken away after a Philadelphia review, but he added a 9-yard touchdown run to go with Adrian Peterson's 1-yard plunge and the play that got the Vikings rolling this evening, Antoine Winfield's 45-yard return of a fumble he caused by knocking the ball out of Michael Vick's hand.
Yes, this is a lost season and all that other good stuff. . .but, believe me, I've never been happier to be wrong that I am right now. This game was a joy to watch from start to finish if you're a Viking fan. . .
And, as I said in the game threads. . .don't look now, but the Minnesota Vikings may have found themselves a quarterback.
Celebrate here, folks. . .I have a quick errand to run, and then we can party together!
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Webb looked OK
‘’what have you done for me lately?’ Didn’t throw a pick, was athletic enough to clear the pass rush when the protection broke down, and looked downfield. Congrats Joe!
We won.... damn so happy ...... Yeah !!!!!!!
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
~Mark Twain
by meno on Dec 28, 2010 10:47 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I like
Throwing monkey wrenchs into peoples seasons
by viking guy on Dec 28, 2010 10:47 PM CST via mobile reply actions
All this really does
is lock up the #3 seed for them
Now they can rest their starters next week
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 28, 2010 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, but they’re not too happy about that.
[enter some witty remark here]
by fanoftheunderdogs on Dec 28, 2010 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
Awesome game
The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota
"A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed."
Can't wait to see how much Webb improves with more experience
by All Day, All Night on Dec 28, 2010 10:49 PM CST reply actions
Don't draft Cam Newton...
Because we already have a guy that plays like Cam Newton. Joe Webb will do just fine with A LOT more reps just running every possible play. He needs to learn the essentials, like how far to throw a deep pass to Harvin (about five yards farther and it’s a TD), and where his receivers are when he’s scrambling.
Thing is, Joe Webb looks like he’s got the potential to be a star quarterback. He’s supremely gifted as an athlete, he appears smart, he appear to see the field, and he doesn’t appear to stare down his receivers. He also appears to have a genuine gun for an arm, although sometimes it looks like he simply doesn’t know where he is supposed to throw the ball. For that problem, the solution is hundreds and hundreds of repetitions on every possible play. I hope he gets those repetitions in the off season.
I still think they should draft a QB in the first round, but now I think it should be a serious competition between whoever they get and Joe Webb, and Webb might just turn out to be the man.
If that's so...
do we trade our QB pick for a lineman or a safety? We could lose out a little because the perceived drop-off in value when/if Webb beats out that QB for the starting spot, which means we wouldn’t be getting a 1st round level trade under those circumstances…
QB first. Lineman second. Safety third (well, fourth).
That’s how it needs to be. Competition will also give Webb even MORE reason to push himself. He looks like a true competitor as it is, but that will definitely help keep him focused as a young player.
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
QB, then WR, then CB, then OL's
Gotta have one more serious wideout now that Berrian has retired (unannounced). Should be able to get a good one in the second round. After that, I’d go for the best CB available, assuming one of the starters doesn’t make it back next year.
After that, we need to find some large bodies willing to learn the blocking thing.
Luckily, the Vikings are doing fairly well on the defensive line. Pat Williams is losing steam, but other guys (Kennedy, Guion) are stepping up.
One thing that puzzles me is why the Vikings have not cut Berrian and given Freddie Brown a tryout. What have they got to lose, and maybe Brown will show something. If so, then the Vikings might not need to draft a WR in the second round. It would be nice to get a real monster OL to replace McKinney…
I understand the QB competition thing
I just think making sure the offensive line is pristine is significantly more important than an additional WR/CB. I think we have 2 great receivers and Camarrilo’s acceptable. We don’t run many 4 receiver sets, and no one wants to draft a TE early (why would we do that?) to replace Shiancoe (who’s getting old), so drafting a WR I think would be a waste if we put them in the third slot. Rice can be a deep threat if need be (we’ve been using him on post and flag routes anyway, and he does pretty well on longer curls), and Harvin is a fantastic slot receiver. Running a WCO reduces the need for a deep threat anyway, and I think while we could be better on WR, we get relatively more value out of an OL pick. because our O Line is just straight NOT GOOD. DeGeare will be good, but he’s a guard. We need a left tackle. Even if the need for an OL and a WR were the same, I’d pick the OL because they are more important to pass success than a good WR. But when we have at least two and needs on the line… O Line, no question.
Same deal with CB. Chris Cook is learning and shows potential and Winfield and Griffin are fantastic, still good for a couple more years. Getting a 4th prospect CB would be nice, but I don’t think it’s a top priority given that we are gaining, not losing overall value anyway in the next few years for that position.
Every year, Peyton Manning makes receivers who were undrafted, sometimes waived by 2 or 3 teams look great. This year he doesn’t. This year he has major injuries to his line, and he gets hit and hit and hit. He gets sacked. His production CLEARLY drops after the first couple of hits and interceptions become more likely. In games where he throws more interceptions, it’s not a coincidence he also gets hit more.
Also, it’s clear that offensive line production is critical to making our best weapon—AD get more situations where he’s in the open field. And the value of that is fantastic.
very good points
We need at least one offensive line starter, maybe two, to come from this draft.
by medicineball on Dec 29, 2010 6:34 AM CST up reply actions
Webb may be that WR
I don’t know if it is feasible for Webb to be pursuing both a starting QB job as well as a fall back at WR, but the guy proved one thing for sure: he is a football player that must be utilized somewhere. With his size, athleticism, and hands, the only question seems to be can he learn to run routes like a top wideout?
Bev Pear: A jar? Girls don't pee in jars.
Randy Pear: Oh, right. Sorry. Jason, we're gonna need a jar and a funnel.
Nope
Keep Webb, Rhett Bomar and whoever’s the 1st round QB. Hold a serious competition for the starting job, then keep the others.
It’s important to remember that the Vikings won this game against a very good Eagles team by playing their butts off. That’s the way it should be, right?
Now, the Vikings could go after McNabb, but I would rather see them develop a rookie, or Webb or Bomar, whoever wins the preseason derby. I am fed up with the rent-a-veteran crap. It makes the team look like they don’t have an offensive identity. I want to be able to point to one guy and say, “That’s my team’s quarterback” for about ten years.
Yes, we need at least one stud offensive lineman, and we need a new cornerback. But there are four guys entering the draft this coming April that all look like they will be good starting quarterbacks. If one of those guys is available when the Vikings pick, they should take him. Assuming Andrew Luck isn’t available, Ryan Mallet and Jake Locker look the most ready to play, but Newton might have the most eventual upside.
I said it on the other thread
but I’ll say it again because I still don’t believe it
3-1 vs the NFC East
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 28, 2010 10:50 PM CST reply actions
Wow. Unfortunately we are 1-4 against the NFC North and 1-3 vs the AFC East. There’s always next year.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks to everyone here for a great evening full of fun. Lets get back together post-season and have fun* during play-offs
And you guys (DN writers) were great tonight as well. Very funny stuff.
- platonic fun.
Webb is the BEST!!!
Webb will return in 2011, GUARANTEED!!!!
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Dec 28, 2010 10:53 PM CST reply actions
Watching NFL total access..... they are gushing about Webb
feels good to have people say good things about the team and players for a change
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
~Mark Twain
by meno on Dec 28, 2010 10:54 PM CST via mobile reply actions
especially
consider how poor the commentatoring(sp?) was from collinsworth early in the night. It was all about EAGLES EAGLES EAGLES. It was all about what the Eagles weren’t doing then in the second half it turned into what the VIKINGS were doing
Huge Win To Build On
The Vikings were banged up and dead meat…They should have mailed in a score and went back to Minny…but that’s why you play the game. I don’t know about you guys but besides the score, the Vikings flat out PHYSICALLY beat up one of the Super Bowl favorites, especially their “mvp” quaterback. I was worried as hell at first when it looked like the refs were trying to jumpstart the Eagles in the first quarter but our guys never quit. Joe Webb did a helluva job at qb and where the hell has this defense been all season? Where has this cornerback blitz been hiding? Where in the hell did this shutdown secondary come from? I had to rub my eyes a few times to make sure I was watching the same team. This win was HUGE and if they can beat the Lions on Sunday will go a long way to getting them ready for the next season. Damn, after all the crap we’ve seen this year, it feels good to be a Viking fan again…SKOL! (On a lesser note…do the refs ever call holding anymore?)
Wonderful
This game showed excellent defensive planning (a couple of muck-ups, like the LBs out on pass coverage while the D-Line allowed itself to be pulled for the Vick TD run. A safety shouldn’t be the only person there to try and stop a run), with a consistent and adaptable plan to take out the game’s biggest threat and neutralize our biggest weakness—an injured and … non Pro Bowl quality secondary. We might need to abandon the Tampa-2 for now, but this was a good stop-gap. Expect offensive coordinators to run more seams and passes out to the flat if we consistently show this defensive scheme, but pressure is good and any other QB would have been sacked 3 or 4 more times. I think we finished with SIX on VICK.
Webb looked great. He generally was able to complete passes to primary receivers, but was OK getting through shallow progressions to switch receivers and get to his second. With experience, his pocket passing will be extremely deadly. Some rockets and lasers fired from his arm and his decisionmaking should only improve. His scrambling is great and if he could take a page from Vick and become as slippery as Vick has been (in… other games), he will be fantastic. Give him an O line and some time to develop, and I think we could be happy with the results. Good runs.
I’m happy. This looks good for the future.
Big question for next week
When and where will the game be played?
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 28, 2010 10:55 PM CST reply actions
Sunday, noon (central), Ford Field, Detroit.
Frazier has steered the longboat past the ice. We are entering smooth waters now. No natural disasters in the forecast.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
Well, yeah, the game itself, who knows? But where and when, it’s settled.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:17 PM CST up reply actions
After the last few weeks
Are you absolutely sure about that? I’m guessing Wednesday at 9:43
Haha
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Dec 29, 2010 2:04 AM CST up reply actions
Wow!
I’m still not sure if what I saw was real tonight. I might have to wake up and check this again before I go to work just to make sure I didn’t dream it all.
Helluva game by the Vikings and Webb looked pretty poised out there, especially as the game went on.
Now lets take out the fooking Lions next week!
SKOL VIKINGS!!!
I AM VIKING, HEAR ME ROAR!!!
factoids and observations
Webb wins first career start
First Vikings win over the Eagles since 1991
Vikings are undefeated on Tuesdays
The game was revenge for Vick making fools of the Vikings about 8 years ago in his debut to NFL stardom.
Sidney Rice was courageous to go and get that catch. It was his only catch on the night, and he paid the price. I thought the TD catch should have been upheld.
Forget Joe Webb. Introducing Leslie Frazier as a star head coach in the NFL. His tweaks to the defense have been great.
The offensive line played great.
Maybe this team should be kept intact as much as possible for the 2011 campaign. Not sure about the quarterback situation. Webb is green.
Asante Samuel should be looking at a suspension
He’s a repeat offender, and that was a complete cheap shot he laid on Rice on that one. Full-on helmet-to-helmet, no doubter.
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by Christopher Gates on Dec 28, 2010 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
Did Rice get a concussion?
I saw the play but I couldn’t hear in the volume where I watched the game. It was indeed a cheap shot. It looked like Samuels almost got the worst of it at first, which is good. Hopefully it dinged him a bit.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 28, 2010 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
He'll Get Dinged All Right
For about $30,000 and possibly a suspension. That was not cool!
I AM VIKING, HEAR ME ROAR!!!
yes
He continued on the field during that drive, but then was taken out for the rest of the game.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks..
.. I saw he was out and assumed it was probably a concussion. Well, no reason to play Rice next week, just sit him down and hope he’s ok. No reason to take even a miniscule chance with that guy (or anyone else) in the last game.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 28, 2010 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Rice sat out the rest of game,
Assuming tests will be done
Yeah OK
but does this add to the glass jar persona or was this a cheap/bad of a hit?
Favre go now with Chilly.
No
It was a definite helmet to helmet cheap shot. It’s amazing that Rice held on to the ball. Samuel should have been ejected.
Okay cheap shot indeed, but
Samuel is a hell of a player. Come on Rice play week 17! If your heads in check.
Favre go now with Chilly.
It was a bad shot.
Rice staggered off the field with help after that play. The toughest players in the league would have been rattled too. That’s the kind of hit that would have messed with even Favre in his prime.
The really sad thing is
Samuel has more then enough skill that he doesn’t need to do that.
He’s a Jack Tatum wannabe
A bird in the hand is worth about 10.99 at KFC and makes me lick my chops
Yummy!!!!!
Wow, it's like you wrote that part of the SMR
I feel exactly the same way. Seriously, go read it. It’s in the queue for tomorrow morning, you’re almost word for word on what I’m going to say.
The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota
"A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed."
When is this new policy going to stop that shit?
That was completely avoidable by Samuel — he chose to do it anyway. I agree that it is time to start the suspensions, and Samuel is as good a place to start as any.
Bev Pear: A jar? Girls don't pee in jars.
Randy Pear: Oh, right. Sorry. Jason, we're gonna need a jar and a funnel.
Im with ya medicineball
Frazier is a keeper…..but I cant ignore Webbs game….green or not Im pleased
A bird in the hand is worth about 10.99 at KFC and makes me lick my chops
Yummy!!!!!
Webb is good, but he has a lot to learn
He’s got a lot of good things going for him, including his athleticism, his emotional groundedness, and many other things. That said, he has a lot to learn about being an NFL quarterback.
The offense tonight was a far cry from the full offense that Favre ran when he was at his best in 09 and this year, such as against the Cardinals. There’s a lot of work ahead for Webb in reading defenses and making decisions.
One thing I like about Joe Webb though, is he has the potential to be a great NFL quarterback.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
Forget Joe Webb?
I agree that this performance is a small sample size, but I think he showed what we would want from a rookie, with looks towards the future. I would need to see him in more games against different defenses and having a year’s worth of stats is great.
I think Webb’s confidence (he may have been a little too confident, forcing the ball perhaps a bit too much, but it didn’t result in anything awful, so that’s ok) was great and I like to see that. Anyone with wheels who looks like a pocket passer on so many plays is someone to keep.
Leslie Frazier just very clearly has the faith of his players and that’s wonderful. Leslie Frazier did a lot to keep his job and I’m excited for more. You could clearly tell that ’Toine was very happy with Frazier in the post-game interview.
But while I am also unsure, I am certainly optimistic on Webb.
Love 'Toine
It was nice to hear that from a player. With all the media circuses we’ve had this year, i could see where a player may shrug off a question like that, but to basically address Wilf and say this is our guy, we’ll play and fight for him to stay here. That says a lot. One thing he said that reminded me of the bald dipshit we had here for a while when talking about Frazier, Toine said: He keeps us focused on the game and he motivates us.
Webb is learning...
Webb is definitely learning under fire. Good job by the coaching staff to prepare him. Kudos go to the defense and especially the secondary?!!! Excellent use of the blitzes! Looked similar to some of the Vikings games of last year. Wouldn’t it be nice if we don’t have to draft a QB and get some of our other team positions filled properly?
Now, don’t get anyone hurt next week!!!
Webb did not play like a "rookie"
But he did play like a very inexperience quarterback. He failed to see several open receivers, and he threw the ball to the wrong spot on the deep ball to Harvin. Luckily, these flaws can be corrected by hundreds of repetitions.
Webb’s 3rd down zinger to Harvin showed what this guy can do, if they give him enough reps. He’s got a genuine gun, and a beautiful, quick delivery. Imagine how good he could be once he gets enough reps on timing routes!
In his defense(and i know you're not ragging on him, you're just being fair)
The guy on the other team missed a WIDE open Desean Jackson if he had thrown his deep ball in the correct spot, it would have been a TD, but instead he was picked. That’s a guy people are(were) touting as a possible MVP and he’s been doing this for years. Webb’s a rookie. Obviously he’s going to make some mistakes, but on the deep pass, it’s complete. You can afford to be a little off target when throwing 40-50 yds downfield, but he still put it in a spot where a receiver could catch the ball. Can’t think of how many times we saw another HOF QB overthrowing wide open WRs. For Webb, if he can focus on making sure he’s as accurate as possible on the sideline routes, I think he’ll be just fine. He seems to throw down the middle of the field fairly well. EIther way. GREAT night! GREAT win! SKOL!
QBOTF...
I’ve seen the future and it is Joe Webb.
Poised is spot on. He didn’t play like a rookie. That 3rd and 16 throw to Percy on the last scoring drive was ridiculous. Any QB would be proud of that throw.
I guess it’s best to keep it in perspective, but that was encouraging.
The defense kept Vick running for his life. He was gimpy at the end.
I do hope they beat the Bears or Packers if they see them in the playoffs. But tonight was a great win and maybe a harbinger for good things to come. It doesn’t seem crazy to think we have next year’s starting QB already on the team.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 28, 2010 10:58 PM CST reply actions
Whoa whoa
hold up there
1 good game doesn’t make you the QB of the future, he could come out and play like a middle schooler next week
I’d say, if he plays this well again next week, there’s a chance he could compete for the starting job next year
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 28, 2010 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Absolutely
I can go back and remember Tarvaris absolutely tearing up the Cardinals back in 2008. At that point I was sold on the guy as QB. Now look at him. He’ll be lucky to be starting in the CFL next year. Webb did show more poise tonight under fire than Jackson ever did, so it’s encouraging.
I AM VIKING, HEAR ME ROAR!!!
Another thing is...
…. 2008 wasn’t TJ’s rookie year. If memory serves, TJ had about a 60 QB rating in his rookie year.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 28, 2010 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
Tarvaris tore up an injured secondary that was already in the bottom of the league..
And it was his third year in the league.
This was Webb’s first start against a defense that is still pretty stout against the pass, even with a few rookies starting.
Now, I agree that we should not jump to conclusions, but it is very hard not to get excited.
It would be totally foolish to not get...
… completely overboard excited about Joe Webb. If you watch football for the fun of it, and like the game, which is me, then have fun and go overboard. Especially right after a win.
Joe Webb is a future HOF’er. I said it. Why not?
The fact is, we don’t have any responsibilities to make any decisions about the team. That’s the coaches and front office.
We just get to enjoy it.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 28, 2010 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Trust me, I am enjoying it...
Even if our win helped the Bears out.
Webb still has a lot of work ahead of him. But I can’t help but go out and shop for Joe Webb jerseys.
I had the same thought...
.. just today.
But, I almost ran out and got a Randy Moss jersey, but couldn’t find one, and then 2 weeks later he was gone.
I’ll wait at least until the season is over.
But I still think Webb will be a first ballot Hall of Famer!
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
Sure....
…. that’s a possibility. But I don’t have any doubt after that he can “compete” for the starting job. Whether or not he wins it is another question.
I thought in the preseason, with limited data, that he looked like he had great mechanics and a fantastic arm. What I liked was how he could run, but also how he could throw while running. I saw that again tonight.
How many really bad throws were there? I saw a couple maybe, but there were some absolute gems too.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 28, 2010 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Better than
to have to use a high draft pick. We will need some time to get our team working next year anyway, as I doubt we will be able to sign everyone we would like to come back. If Webb shows poise and performs well next week, we may have a YOUNG QB for a starter, which would be the first time in a long time. This team of Webb, Harvin, Peterson, Rice, and Shaincoe needs to be kept together for a while. We just need another rookie receiver in the draft that is tall and fast with good hands. And keep Camarillo too.
Limited Data
is the biggest problem. I agree, but I’m certainly optimistic.
The difference here between Webb and TJack was how willing and quickly Webb was able to move past the FIRST receiver if he was covered and move to the second if need be. Webb showed more confidence too.
I want to see Webb against exotic blitzes, better pass rushes (the Lions?) and the inversely better coverage situations.
Man, does he have a cannon.
QBOTFO
That is: quarterback of the future opportunity. I say he’s earned his ticket to the octagon to battle whoevever else is up for the QB position next year. He’s as raw as they come. When you start Joe Webb(rookie, 6th round pick, drafted as a WR, against a solid Eagles Def, national TV) Your expectations are ZEEEEERRRROOOO!!! No one can blame him if he throws 4 picks and fumbles 3 times and looks like Carson Palmer in the 4th QTR. If he plays decent and doesn’t make a whole lot of mistakes, you look at him and say “good job, taking some good steps today, you’ll get better, and we’ll build on this in practice and maybe next week we’ll beat the Lions” But when he goes out and runs the offense fairly efficently, we need to go streaking through philly snowdrifts. There’s no way a rookie with everything aforementioned stacked against him goes out and plays like that. He wasn’t Vick on MNF against the Redskins, but he was certainly better than 90% of our QB play this year.
Sure, there’s some small pockets of DN’ers that have been praying for the day Webb makes his first start, but for the most part, did we really expect to get THAT?
I look at it this way. Hopefully it’s only a small step for him, Hopefully it’s only the first step, and Hopefully he keeps stepping because with all the physical gifts he has and all of the weapons he has around him, he has a high stair case and could do some wonderful things in this league.
With that being said, you still can’t give him the keys to the new BMW (rrr….Kia) and have him just take it for a spin. He needs to keep earning it and he needs to be challenged.
Draft recommendation: #1 priority = QB/OL. I say draft either one, best player available. Make sure we maximize the value of those picks and shore up some depth.
Q: How remarkable was the Vikings' performance in this game?
A: R4F made not one, but two, posts unrelated to Favre in the fourht quarter thread.
by Midnight Rambler on Dec 28, 2010 10:59 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
I thought we would get a
“Nobody wears a stocking cap on the sidelines better that Favre!!”
Actually, that’s true. He could probably make anything look manly just by wearing it.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
Let's not get all Jackson on Webb...
Jackson looked good for a game or two in his first season too, and look where we are 5 years later. Good game by Webb, encouraged, but please, stop going overboard based on one game.
by San Diego Viking on Dec 28, 2010 11:02 PM CST reply actions
Tjack did not look good his rookie year.
Certainly not as good as Webb looked tonight.
But I agree, let’s not get too excited.
I never in 5 years saw TJack play as calm as Webb did tonight
For a complete game.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
The Arizona 4 TD game?
Sure he did. Look, we’re not saying Webb might not be a keeper. But don’t anoint him savior and refuse to find anyone to compete with him.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 28, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
Just Wondering...
Where the hell is Revenge4Webb aka CitrusFLViking???? C’mon Vance, we need you to join in on the celebration too.
JOE F'N WEBB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Favre go now with Chilly.
by VikesPma on Dec 28, 2010 11:05 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It's been a rough year and
I admittedly have a hard time posting when the Vikes arent above .500.
Favre go now with Chilly.
This season has been tough. It’s been hard to figure out what went wrong. Ultimately, the main thing for the Vikings is to not give up and keep fighting. Soon it will be 2011. Jared Allen looked foolish many times against Vick tonight, but all that hustle paid off in the end.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not knockin' anyone, but
I got off unemployment and got a job so if there wasent something good to talk about I wasent having it. Joe Webb for Prezz. Why not ?!!!!!!!!!
Favre go now with Chilly.
Jared Allen also said
He isn’t much of a weights guy. Maybe he should be a and bring even more consistency to the table. He could be even better and yes I realize that is saying a lot.
Favre go now with Chilly.
Bear fan here
We may only have a few things in common which starts and ends with the rivalry and the mutual dislike we share for one another but we can add beating the "mighty " eagles to that.
Good Work out there tonight, your boys fought hard when many thought they had packed up and went home.
Joe Webb looks like someone who can make plays.
Adrian Peterson and Percy Harvin tonight were well what we all knew they were which are playmakers who showed up and showed up big.
As a Bear fan i tip my hat and i Thank you on a hell of a game played.
I also congratulate you on winning the game because the idiots on tv will call this as the Eagles losing it.
I hope you guys keep Frazier around because he seems like a guy the players like and respect and someone who can lead this team back to the post season.
Good Night Vikes fans!
Guns dont kill people. Brian Urlacher kills people.
Three things to say to you
1. Eliminate the Packers
2. Have a nice week
3. Eliminate the Packers
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 28, 2010 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+25
After all the Puker fans talking trash this year, it would be nice if you keep them out of the post season. Hopefully then they stay on their own board instead of trolling ours.
lol actually the vikings just did more to help the Packers than any team has this season. Chicago is likely not to play as hard, maybe even rest some starters, and I think Packers now walk into playoffs instead of having to fight for it against a Bears team motivated by high stakes.
Packs back against the wall
The Pack is in the forest and has to fight through the bears to get to the promised land. You may be right about this one, but Lovie says he will have his starters playing every game. The Bears don’t have as much to lose!!!
Well its hard but we still have a real outside shot at the #1 seed.
Carolina beating ATL? should it happen? No. could it happen? I sure hope so!
Tampa Bay should it happen? why not? Could it happen? i think so those guys are hungry and if they win and the bears win Tampa bay yes the the same tampa bay that picked 3rd could be a playoff team!
Kinda weird the team with the top pick in last years draft and the team with the third could both make the playoffs?
thats your 2010 nfl season folks!
Guns dont kill people. Brian Urlacher kills people.
by Bear Lovin 21 on Dec 28, 2010 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
Good luck in the playoffs
I hate the Bears when we play you, but the Bears deserve to represent the NFC North this year. We have taken care of the Eagles for you. Now go take that bye, and make it count. Go to the Super Bowl and take it all. Make a statement about the NFC North being the best division in football.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
I hope so brother
We have put some teams in the championship games over the last few years one of us needs to bring it home
Guns dont kill people. Brian Urlacher kills people.
by Bear Lovin 21 on Dec 28, 2010 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for the post,
Better knck out GB this weekend, you do not want to face them a third time..
Webb
the Minnesota Vikings may have found themselves a quarterback.
As much as I feel you were too pessimistic on Webb in the last days, Chris, now I feel like you are too optimistic. This reminds me a of a postgame entry you made a few weeks ago where you posted, after an OK performance by TJack, that you were comfortable with him being the starter next year. I’m still scratching my head on that one.
What we saw tonight was not a coronation, but a guy who still has a lot of rough edges, but probably showed enough that its wroth it for us to invest the time and attention to try to polish those edges up. If we do play him next year, without a doubt there will be some terrible games. That’s almost always the case. Heck, for me it was almost two years fo watching Favre before I was really sure he’d be good enough to take us anywhere. He had some really erratic, sometimes truly awful play in the first couple years, and its now well known that Holmgren almost benched him. Brett Favre v.1992 is not half as raw and unpolished as Joe Webb v.2010. Yeah he could be another hidden gem like Favre was, but we are a LONG way from being able to even start thinking that is the case, IMO.
Yeah well
Webb is a breath of fresh air and if we could go through a Favre/Holgrem scenario it would mean a Super Bowl for the Vikings, I’ll take it.
Favre go now with Chilly.
hey no problem
didn’t mean to be buzzkill. But my experience here over last offseason is that there are a lot of people that want to think everything will be all reainbows and unicorn farts after one slice of positive outcome. Which is fine and all in itself, but then it’s usually those same people who are posting “scrap the season and start playing the low round picks” at the first sign of trouble.
Not talking about you here. But I think you know what I’m talking about.
Heck ya agreed
Unicorn farts, fantastic.
I havent replied on this sight, other than today, since week one or so. Couldn’t do it.
Favre go now with Chilly.
Hey Puddnhead I resemble that remark.
I figured we were going to lose tonight & next week but hey it would at least give us a better draft position. What a gutsy performance buy the Vikes. Made me feel great. Can’t wait to kick the Lions butt now. Actually the problem that we face now is Joe Webb. Is he for real or not? Not enough games left for a true evaluation. Yeah we need a QB & the smart money says pick a QB with our 1st pick. A first round draft pick is a terrible thing to waste. We need help in the O’line & other places as well. Do we give Webb a year & see how it plays out.? This Webb kid shows no fear. Tarvaris showed fear. If he doesn’t we can always go QB the following season. If we address the O’line we can at least give Joe a fighting chance. If he doesn’t cut it then whoever else we put back there will at least have a decent line in front of them.
Actually the problem that we face now is Joe Webb. Is he for real or not? Not enough games left for a true evaluation.
Yeah it’s aproblem, but it’s a problem worth having. Let’s be clear though: there may not be enough games in next season to know if he’s for real or not. He is very gifted, but very raw, as that short yardage goal line sack (instead of easy dump to AD for TD) proved. He is going to make many many mroe bad plays, even if he is “for real.”
Yeah we need a QB & the smart money says pick a QB with our 1st pick. A first round draft pick is a terrible thing to waste.
If you truly believe a first round draft pick is a terrible thing to waste, then I would think that a QB would be the last thing you’d want to draft with it, not the first. I have no statistics, but I think it is almost obvious that the biggest % chance of getting a bust with your first round pick is to draft a QB with it.
The team WoW nerd tweets
And lo, on the fourth day, the Vikings did beat the Eagles, and I sayeth unto you YEA VERILY shall we go back to our home field. Detroit.
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 28, 2010 11:10 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I love
I love winning. I dont care about getting a better Draft slot. winning games beats the hell out of losing game
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on Dec 28, 2010 11:14 PM CST reply actions
Lovin' Winning!
I agree. Nothing beats winning! Sure dampens the other problems we’ve had this year. Draft is a fifty-fifty proposition at best anyway. Some winners, some maybes, some losers as the draftees. A W is always better.
+1
“Winning isn’t everything. It’s the only thing.”
Vince Lombardi
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
Bears fan here...
First, thanks to your Purples… they played one hell of a game, against a tough team on the road.
Hopefully my Bears can take care of the Packers as well this week.
I am curious how much you all think this helps Leslie Frazier’s chance of being your coach next year. He was my favorite player on the ’85 Bears, and I have been rooting for him to succeed and get the job… I think he potentially could be a great coach.
Yeah… he looks like a keeper, but then again, a former Bear defensive player turned coach just got fired this week.
[enter some witty remark here]
by fanoftheunderdogs on Dec 28, 2010 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
True dat
But one look at Frazier on the sidelines compared with Singletary tells you which one has a chance of being a successful head coach in the NFL and which one doesn’t.
Singletary looked lost
Frazier looks… like he knows what’s going on and what the next move should be, even when we’re losing.
He looked competent and Singletary looked less than that.
Singletary had no experience as any type of coach...
he may has well have been cutting his teeth in Pop Warner, which is what his style is suited for.
even keel
Frazier reminds me of Bud Grant in his emotional stoicism.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:30 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly...
… that I do like about Frazier, while I think the jury is still out on him (as it would be for any interim coach).
Singletary seems like a great guy for a position coach. He seems to emotional to be a head coach. He seems kind of ridiculous. I could see him pumping guys up as a positional coach, and being good at teaching technique, but he looks a little unhinged as a head coach.
Then again, maybe Singletary needs some time as a DC, and then in the future he can be HC somewhere. He’s still relatively young.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
I Think It Helps
But that’s just me. Leslie took a beat up team with a rookie third string quarterback and physically beat a legitimate Super Bowl contender on the road tonight. I’m hoping he gets the chance to lead the team next year.
helps a lot
Frazier was 2-0 against down-and-out clubs, the Redskins and Bills. He was 0-2 against winning teams, the Giants and Bears. Now he got his team motivated and focused in the middle of a freakish set of events that should have been very distracting. He has tweaked the defense and it is now better. He has a rookie quarterback who won his first career start. He has the first two road wins for the Vikings since ‘09 in Green Bay. And for the first time all year, the Vikings have beaten a team that as of now has a winning reoord. It’s not just Frazier who did well to prove himself, but it was also the players, who played hard and executed a great game plan.
I see him getting the head coaching job now, assuming the Vikings keep playing like this against the Lions.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
Dungy said Frasier deserves the job
Tony Dungy said it on national TV. That’s good enough for me, even though Frasier and Dungy are buds.
I think just maybe the Vikes have found a quarterback and a coach…!
Draft position
Big day tomorrow with mock draft re-jiggering and reassessment of Viking priorities. Is Joe Webb the future? Will Bomar be a contender,or sufficient #2? Do we take Cam Newton if he falls to us? Spend a high draft pick on offensive line? Trade aging Mckinney or Hutchinson for Mankins (or similar)? Focus on defensive secondary in the draft?
Holy cow, what a monkey wrench! Bring on the Lions, and let’s close out the season with more answers than questions.
Joe Webb may be the future, but Spielman (or whoever ends up making the calls) would be an idiot to count on it.
IMO what this does is decrease the odds a bit that we trade up in the draft (which I am glad of, because we have a lot of other needs and already are sans 3rd round pick), and increases the chance that we go out and find a mid level journeyman vet, you know a Kitna or Rosenfels type.
I hope so
It’s more palatable than betting the farm on a #1 pick QB. Address glaring needs that can be filled via draft. Fill the other positions via FA. Let’s get some people in here that can start, or make an impact from day one!
Agreed
While it is obviously preferable to have a #1 pick compete with Webb, I think that the potential Webb displays changes the calculation. Before, when we thought Webb was more of a project, the calculation was that a first round QB would provide a higher probability (by a significant margin) of success in the same position in the long term (and likely short term) and the value added by that higher probability in that position exceeded the value of perhaps drafting another position.
I think now that there is a higher probability that Webb is not going to be a journeyman, it is not certain that a first rounder would have a higher probability-value added against the expected value replacing or bolstering some critical positions (LT, SS). Also, I think (and I have no data, so I could be way off) that there’s a higher likelihood in the post-Walsh era that it is harder to go wrong when drafting linemen. Scouting for linemen seems to be more successful (can anyone correct me on this if I’m wrong?)
Lots of questions
But one of them is not, should the Vikes draft a QB. HELL YES the Vikes should draft a QB. If Mallet, Newton or Locker is available, take one of them.
If I had a choice of all three, I’d personally take Mallet, Locker, then Newton. Mallet seems closest to being a pro-style pocket QB, then Locker, then Newton. All three may wind up as stars in the NFL. 2011 might wind up as the best draft for QBs since 1983.
Be smart
And draft a QB next year. Webb is a possibly rising star but we need to reassure ourselves with another QB.
This is my one and only post tonight....
I have said before, Leslie Frazier deserves a chance to be the head coach AND Joe Webb has shown the qualities needed to lead the team as QB. He most definitely solidified his chance to compete for the QB position next season.
The O line needs work still, but, a QB like Webb can only make ANY line look better. An impressive performance by the defense. I have liked Jamarca Sanford since last season when he put a few big hits in during a game. Everyone stepped up in my opinion to rally behind Leslie Frazier, but, that is probably a consensus opinion.
A truly impressive way to end the road game/prime time drought this team has gone through.
Oh, and the fact that they beat the living crap out of Vick was icing on the cake.
Abdullah and Sanford made a nice tandem
Especially considerin it was their first time playing together. Cook and Griff back next season. Guion and Kennedy replace Phat Pat. Resign Ray Ray. Look for a replacement for Leber. The D is good to go.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
I'm not even close
I’ve been there since the start of the season. Cut your losses. For crying out loud, Lito and Walker had some big plays tonight!
Asher is a nickel back. That's what he was drafted for
I think Frank Walker has made a case to be kept around for depth as well.
But Winfield, Griff, Cook and Allen are 4 good corners. 3 of them also could probably play safety. Throw in Walker, Abdullah and Sanford and that’s a very flexible secondary.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
keep Asher
He is still developing, and we need a good dime back.
If everybody is healthy next year at cornerback, we’ll have Winfield, Griffen, Chris Cook, and Asher Allen. Add another guy for depth and that is a solid group.
by medicineball on Dec 28, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
I can see keeping him as a nickel/dime back.
Walker made a couple plays. But I’m not sold on Cook, and I don’t know we can count of Griff coming back strong.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 28, 2010 11:48 PM CST up reply actions
Cook was injured all season. He didnt have a chance to prove himself
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
Yup, the one game Cook was healthy he shut down Calvin Johnson
The kid is going to be special if he can stay healthy.
Not so fast on Asher IMO......
I think he was left out to dry way too often by Madon’t “Play so good” Williams. With better safety play, I think he can improve.
I'm not on board with this.
They both got out of position more than a few times. More than once they were saved by a drop, a penalty, or the pass rush. And then they both got turned inside out on Vick’s TD run.
I’m not sold on either of them as more than backups. Personally I still say move Winfield to safety. Maybe 1 of those 2 would be alright as a free safety. But I think Winfield’s physicality and ability to make plays would be better in the middle of the field, esp at this point in his career.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 28, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
You do realize that both players are very young, right?
Abdullah went from nobody to our starter. He was our best cover safety in his first year as a starter. The progress he made this year tells me that he works hard and that he has not yet reached his ceiling.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
Agree but I feel we still need to draft a safety to replace Madoo doo Williams
And compete for the other starting spot. I do like Abdullah, he may not be as physically gifted but he knows the game and is a football player.
Or find one in FA
I still say our biggest needs are Oline (center and guard) and a replacement upgrade for Leber.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
O-line needs to be fixed but I think LT and RG
We’re going to need a stud RG to block Suh for the next ten years and a LT to get rid of McKinney or slide him over to RT because he is not cutting it at LT, and Loadholt needs to improve dramatically it seems like he declined from last year. We get our O-line fixed we’re back in this next year because you know the FO is going to do great in the draft.
center, too
possibly
It is hard to say with these things. Last year, Herrera looked old and tired. This year, he got back to 100% and was great. Unfortunately, he suffered a different injury and went on IR.
Is the sub-par play this year by McKinnie and Sullivan because they have been fighting injuries, or is it time to replace them?
One thing is for sure. The offensive line assistant coach should be evaluated very, very carefully. Perhaps a replacement is in order. Additionally, maybe the Vikings should switch to man-blocking.
The offensive line has a lot of moving parts right now. As fans, we can’t say anything with 100% certainty at this time.
by medicineball on Dec 29, 2010 6:25 AM CST up reply actions
We need..
to make up our mind on who we are. Are we a running team, which at least in the beginning suited our LT and RT, or are we a passing team? I think O line is the biggest issue, but we really need to decide on what we want to be, and personally, I am not sold on the west coast offensive.
What?
West Coast teams massively increase their Offensive Passing Efficiency and Adjusted Yards Per Attempt, both stats that are very highly correlated with winning. Bellichek runs one for a reason. Running efficiency is very poorly correlated and Run Success Rate is OK. Switching to a “running first” team is harder, especially because it is easier to defend against the run when you know it’s coming, but not relatively as easy to defend against the pass when you know that it’s coming. Part of the reason is that Linebackers have not evolved to have extraordinary pass coverage in the modern game and the WCO is designed to exploit these matchups with passes strung up the middle. Yards gained per pass play exceeds yards gained per run play in a West Coast Offense, even though run plays tend to yield larger gains.
More importantly, it’s changes in the game haven’t really been properly countered—forcing LBs into man, turning a 3 receiver set into a 5 receiver set as soon as the QB reads, and the WCO contains within it more answers to the blitz with it’s screens and seams.
I think that Bellichek said “the pass sets up the run:” Nice inversion. This isn’t college and we’re not Nebraska in the 90’s. Passing teams win NFL games. Even teams that claim to “ground and pound” as part of their identity pass more than they run on a 60-40 ratio or higher. Except Miami. And… well…
Also, any system that anecdotally increase pass completion percentage for quarterbacks by 5% across teams as the system is implemented with different coaches is OK by me.
Your right this isn't
college. But you need to look at the make up of the team. We are not geared to a west coast offensive, it has been a square plug into a round hole. Just look at our o-line with the zone blocking. Defense wins championships. That has always been true, just ask Bellichek. Ant to further the point, in the last 20 years, how many former DC that became HC won the Superbowl over OC that became HC? Without looking, I would give the edge to the DC minded coaches like Bellichek.
We are not a West coast offense because...
We do not have the right players nor the right scheme. Here’s a run down from a website I found explaining the advantages and disadvantages of the “west coast”. "Numerous NFL teams use variations of the West Coast Offense, which include the Denver Broncos, Green Bay Packers, and Seattle Seahawks. This should not come as a surprise given that so many coaches belong to the "Bill Walsh Coaching Tree." Even if the head coach did not work for Walsh directly, their lineage often traces back to him.
Advantages of the West Coast Offense
An advantage of the scheme is that it often suits the quarterback’s ability. Another desired outcome is to keep unscripted plays to reduce predictability and to keep the defense on their toes. Also, there are very few hard and fast rules to the scheme, which allows for improvisation, or the variations that you see with other clubs.
Another advantage is that the quarterback must release the ball sooner, and if executed properly, will result in fewer sacks. Even though there are some drawbacks to the system, several of Walsh’s co-ordinators won Super Bowls by implementing this system. These coaches include George Siefert (49ers), Mike Holmgren (Packers) and Mike Shanahan (Broncos).
Disadvantages of the West Coast Offense
A major drawback for the quarterback is that his passes must be extremely accurate and quick. In addition, he must choose one out of his five receivers. Suffice to say that this is not an offensive scheme meant for game managing quarterbacks. This scheme is meant for teams with a high caliber quarterback.
Also, the scheme isn’t entirely dependent on the quarterback. The receivers have to be capable of handling a ball being passed at such a speed and angle, which means acquiring players that will be suitable for the role. And again, this offense isn’t for every receiver, and not for every team, much like the K-Gun offense. This might also explain why it has only been mastered by a handful of teams.
Sure PH and SR are more than capable, but that’s only two out of five. VS is on the decline, and our other TE don’t fit. I’m not saying we need to be a pure running team, but I see us more like the Steelers than New England.
credit
sorry, I should have given credit to
Derek Clendening at http://www.suite101.com/content/what-is-the-west-coast-offense-a129082 for the write up.
Winfield at safety makes a lot of sense the guy can tackle & he is smart.
Adieu Madieu , Winfield at safety, Cook & Griff at the corners.
Congrats Viking Fans for a big win
I really enjoyed this game. It was great seeing Vick pressured all night — the Vikings showed everyone a blueprint for how to beat the Eagles. Webb was great — so glad the team got a chance to see what he can do, and he did not disappoint. He’s a nice kid and a specimen of an athlete. Even if for some reason he doesn’t work out at QB, I am guessing he could make a very good receiver.
I really think the NFC North is about to be solidified as the toughest division in the league, and personally I love that. I think it will mean that whichever NFC North team(s) makes it to the playoffs over the next several years will be battle-tested and tough to beat. Congrats again — you guys deserved it after this season’s shit storm.
Bev Pear: A jar? Girls don't pee in jars.
Randy Pear: Oh, right. Sorry. Jason, we're gonna need a jar and a funnel.
Congrats. I was an enormous Vikes fan last year when I needed them to knock off the Cowboys last season in the playoffs. Hopefully the Eagles can return the favor for you all and knock off both the Packers and Bears.
spiderman looked much better than daunte in his first start...
looks like a 6th round steal!!!!
ladies and gentleman, we got ’im (our qb).
still looked a little rough around the edges
However, I have to eat my own words from a week ago. Webb has shown me that he could be the future. Still has a long way to go, but I’m starting to like this young mans potential.
Third and 11 with the game on the line....
showed me ALOT, ALOT. First regular season start? 14 point dog on the road? Zebras still giving the the other team the calls? Can’t wait for next year!!!!
JOE WEBB.....
okay, my second post. I become a bit nostalgic when I think about this player. He plays QB, he was drafted as a WR, he leaps tall stacks of blocking equipment. He runs a 4.45 40. He IS a player.
I remember when I was a young teenager, before xbox, wii, madden 3 something, hell, even before Pong, when a bunch of us would get together and play ball. No leagues, no adults, sometimes no rules. We would even play 3 on 3 if we could. Everyone would play every position and we would go for hours. IF only we had the innate talents that I see in this guy. But, we played and we played hard. And, we had fun to boot. He has fun doing this. No question about it. You cannot coach this.
DO not make the mistake and overlook him or discount what you saw with your own two eyes. Will he have a few bumps in the road? Sure, who hasn’t. I see a winner here.
the thing I like the most about this kid
Is that he has a never say die attitude, which is a sign of a true winner.
LMFAO
I just read the update scrolling on the bottom of the screen on ESPN. “Michael Vick suffered a thigh contusion in the 1st quarter and never left the game.”
That is so hilarious, it’s pathetic.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
Wow
That seems more admirable than pathetic. He still had some speed and he played through it.
Or maybe no one trusts Kevin Kolb.
Pathetic on the part of BSPN, I meant
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
However
Lots of “I’s” and “me’s” in Vick’s post game presser.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
Q: Your name is being brought up for MVP. What do you think?
Answers:
M.Vick: I would vote for myself.
T.Brady: Whole team is behind the success, QBs get too much credit, there are a lot of quality guys, Vick is great for his team, Peyton is great in his setting.
PS. Not exact quotes but pretty close.
This is consistent.
The team philosophies speak to this as well. Bellichek would be apoplectic if he thought one of his players was playing too hard to be a star and not playing hard enough to be on a team (see: Randy Moss).
Last week, when I heard he had said that, I almost gave it to him. Yea, it’s arrogant, but it’s not like he’s wrong (as of last week). A more political answer would be Brady’s, but it’s not like Brady doesn’t know he’s a first-ballot Hall of Famer and competing to be the best QB of the decade with someone who has won 2 fewer super bowls than him in the same span of time.
Vick DROVE that team. You could tell that the team plays differently with Vick than with Kolb and Vick sees it to. I think it takes some level of maturity to knowingly make the undiplomatic answer for what you see as the unvarnished truth.
The difference, of course, is that both BB and Brady would have won this game. We can’t play these types of plays very often against competent offensive coordinators like … BB, who doesn’t have an offensive coordinator, I guess. A lot of teams will just run the WCO better in response to our blitz package and throw slants and screens all day. Throw Brady in there with the same amount of practice in that offense with the same players and he would have won that game.
A third perspective: Chad Pennington would have accidentally left his shoulder on the field during pre-game warmups because the wind blew at it too hard.
Uh oh, some of you are not gonna like this
I’m not even sure I do. From Zulgud’s twitter:
Frazier said if Favre can play next Sunday that he will get the start against the Lions.
Also there is this, a more universally acknowledged piece of bad news:
Frazier confirms Sidney Rice suffered a concussion in the third quarter.
Oh, Jesus tap-dancing Christ
Should Brett Favre start next week? Holy hell NO Brett Favre shouldn’t start next week. I don’t care of Jesus himself comes down and tells Leslie Frazier to start the guy.
Joe Webb should start next week. The end.
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by Christopher Gates on Dec 29, 2010 12:43 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
As much as I loved Webb's performance...
I think you have to send Favre out for a least a snap or series. I would really hate to see his career end with that God awful Bears game.
Send him out in style for all he did for us in 2009!
SKOL FAVRE! SKOL WEBB!
by 92Y_VikesFan on Dec 29, 2010 5:13 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s the reason I wrote that I’m not sure I like it either. Before yesterday I thought it might make sense to treat the Lions game like a preseason game or something: let each QB (incl bohon?) play at least a quarter. Let Favre do his farewell lap, then let the other guys do some pace laps. But now with the memories of Webb’s performance so tantalizing in our memories … maybe he needs to play the whole game.
I think you have the right idea. Have Favre go out an play a couple series, kinda fitting since the team did formally send guys down to beg him to play, you probably should play him a token series if he can. But then let Webb play rest of game, maybe Bohom too depending how Webb does.
And tell all the QBs ASAP what your plan is.
sidney rice part sucks
however Favre should start if hes healthy. Favre still gives the vikings the best chance to win.
No sir, he does not.......
but, he has earned the right to start the last game of his career, R4F inside knowledge notwithstanding.
Huh?
You must have missed the game then. Sorry, it was fun to watch.
But even if you are right, so what? Why would we start Favre, when Joe Webb can get reps and we get more data?
Our season is lost, and Favre doesn’t need reps, Webb does.
When Favre went out, we learned two things for certain:
1) TJ is NOT the starting QB for us, now or ever.
2) Joe Webb MIGHT be the starting QB for us in the future. Possibly a future HOF’er.
Learning those two things, and getting experience for Webb, is WAY more valuable than winning a couple of meaningless games.
And, I really question whether Favre gives us the best chance to win anyhow. But to me that question is moot.
Moreover, if Favre plays next week, it’ll be much less interesting to me to watch. I want to see Webb play. The outcome, win or lose next week, doesn’t matter much to me.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 12:12 AM CST up reply actions
Joe Webb …. Possibly a future HOF’er
lol, the corn syrup purple kool aid is back out on the table! ;)
It is a statement of fact...
… that he is a possible HOF’er. My prediction is first ballot HOF. I’m going to be the first one to predict it, and then conveniently ignore it if it doesn’t come true.
For example, if he doesn’t make it on the first ballot, and take a few tries.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
Favre should start
Just let him go out the warrior he is, if he is healthy enough to do so.
Why would any...
… reasonably sane person care about how Favre rides off into the sunset, apart from Brett Favre himself? I doubt Deanna Favre even cares at this point.
Whether he goes quietly, or texting pictures of his genitals to a cheerleader, I really couldn’t care less.
I wish him the best in his retirement, but next week’s game is more about the players who will be around next year.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
Nothing wrong with a small tribute though.....
nonetheless. A ton of great film is available from tonight to assist in evaluating talent for next season. I don’t think this will interfere with the process.
I don't think...
… that Favre or anyone else will agree to the token series, or token snap, etc. I just think that he’ll think that is stupid.
Favre will get his accolades when he is a first ballot HOF’er.
Let’s be honest, he was a mercenary player for us. He’s going into the HOF as a Packer, not a Viking or a Jet.
If he had played here for 15+ years, I might feel differently.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
Might feel differently?
says it all. I guess I am not reasonably sane/smart to fully understand where you are coming from. He has been in the NFL for 20 damn years. Nothing lost in letting the man get in the game. Not everything has to be so cold blooded.
Sure you are right..
… it doesn’t have to be cold blooded. As long as winning isn’t important to you.
Bill Belichick isn’t exactly a warm and fuzzy guy either. Neither was Ditka.
Maybe someone will let him get a TD pass next week.
I just read a few weeks ago “The Last Boy” (which is an AWESOME biography, I thoroughly recommend it if you like baseball). I learned that a pitcher (can’t remember who) threw a gopher ball to Mickey Mantle so that he could break someone’s home run totals. Put him in 3rd or 4th place all time, something like that. Mickey rounded the bases and was thanking him, which nearly got the pitcher in trouble.
Maybe the Lions will play soft so he can get one more TD pass for nostalgia sake?
Or, possibly Suh will send him to a nursing home 40 years too soon.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 12:45 AM CST up reply actions
Not sure anyone advocated soft play.....
no need for the hyperbole. Personally, I would like to see him start, throw a complete pass, then come out, tossing the ball to Webb as he leaves. Anything here disruptive? I think Webb would be honored by it.
Well ok...
… I respect that opinion. But I think it is rather demeaning to Favre, actually. I would imagine he’d see it that way too.
I think the idea of starting him as some kind of “honor” is just silly. It isn’t like his streak is active anymore, and even if it was I wouldn’t see that as a good reason to play him one series.
I agree he is a “warrior”, so then either he starts to win it, or he sits out. The guy has started over 300 NFL games. I can’t see that he needs to add one meaningless start with a meaningless completion. Just seems silly to me.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 12:54 AM CST up reply actions
How about this....
let us both wait to see what Favre himself says, OK? Hell, Goodell may make this a moot point by Sunday as it is.
Oh yeah...
Goodell is going to suspend Favre in the last game. That’ll happen. Are you serious?
Goodell has been waiting out the season with Favre, if he ever intended on suspending him. My guess is that when he talked with Favre, he told him that he’ll let him retire before he would ever discipline him.
Sure it is the coaches call, but I would hope the coach would put the game and the returning players above a meaningless gesture to a guy who’s going to get inducted into the HOF anyhow.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 1:01 AM CST up reply actions
I also think...
… that if Joe Webb is sensible at all, he wouldn’t care about anything other than what he does on the field. Having Favre “toss” him the ball is completely pointless.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 12:58 AM CST up reply actions
Relax...
… and maybe you need to get your C-1 vertebrae adjusted again. Just in case.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 1:02 AM CST up reply actions
Don't tell me you researched something....
I am sure you bought into the sleep apnea diagnosis, eh Science Guy?
If Favre starts and...
… we beat the Lions, I think we should give him a game ball too.
Then a hug.
And then a 3rd place trophy. Just like you get in pee wee football.
Everyone is a winner!
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 1:15 AM CST up reply actions
Is C-1 vertebra...
… misalignment in any way related to having no sense of humor? I haven’t researched it yet.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
Isn't that the Hulk?
I thought that was the Hulk that said that. I guess Marvel comics all the same.
Not so much Thor, but in my brain somehow I’ve jumbled together Led Zeppelin, The Immigrant Song, the Vikings, and The Lord of the Rings. Some of my favorite things somehow are all connected… So “Hammer of the Gods” somehow fits exactly.
Prince almost made it in there, until I heard his Vikings song.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 1:48 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah Hulk it is. Check out trailer of Thor on IMDB
And then later in 2 years the justice league movie or something with all of them (Capt America, Iron Man, Thor, Nick Fury, Don Cheadle, the fat johanson girl etc) together and probably Hulk as the villain.
That'll either be awesome..
… or it will totally suck. No middle ground. But either way I’ll see those. The Thor previews look pretty interesting.
Since my son has grown up a little, it is so much fun to get back into this kind of stuff with him.
Did you know there is a Sauron Marvel comic character? I just discovered that a couple of weeks ago, but I don’t know anything about it yet.
It’s all coming together again…
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 3:07 AM CST up reply actions
If he's healthy is the key and if he is, let him play the first series and then wave the NFL goodbye.
I would like to see Favre walk off the field on his terms and not like last week.
by nmvikesfan on Dec 29, 2010 12:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
agree
i would let farve play as much of the game he wants. it will (probably) be his last game in the nfl. he has earned the respect. joe webb will have all the chances he needs next year to improve. i know some will say that he needs the reps from this game to hone his talents as our future qb, but alot of those comments come from people that also say we should draft a qb in the 1st round. kind of contradictory. we have nothing to lose by letting farve play.
i think we can all agree that not many players throughout the years have shown the love for the game as much as farve has. let him ride into the sunset in style, with a victory! GO VIKES!!!
by indianavikesfan on Dec 29, 2010 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
It may come down to this.
A network executive makes a call to Goodell saying that most of the country wants to watch Favre play the last game of his career and the ratings will be great. Goodell makes the call to Frazier and it’s a done deal.
Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. - John Lennon
by JethroBoViking on Dec 29, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Congrats Coach Frazier
5th game as HC and already a signature win. What an awesome game. Fred Pagac also making a case to be permanent DC. I’m excited about Webb – he needs competition going into training camp next year but looks legit. What about that 3rd down pass to Harvin in the 4th?
The kid can only get better with all the reps of a 1st team QB
and a full offseason as a QB and not a WR
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthend, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-Helen Keller
That pass...
… was completely ridiculous.
by HammeroftheGods on Dec 29, 2010 1:53 AM CST up reply actions
im not a big fan of....
all these debbie downers about joe webb. this year has been nothing but dissapointment and we FINALLY get something that finally looks good this season and people hate on it. SKOL VIKES AND SKOL JOE WEBB AS THE QB OF THE FUTURE!!! lol
by travonino on Dec 29, 2010 2:34 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Who's hating on it?
If anything, I think people are overreacting positively.
Look, it was a very good performance. I want Webb to succeed. But I do NOT want to assume…like we did with TJack…that just because he had a good game, he should be THE #1 QB in perpetuity. That is a grand way to breed overconfidence and laziness into him.
So YES draft a QB if there’s a quality one available where we pick. And sign a solid veteran in FA who’s willing to compete for the job. NOT Ramsey, who’s already a multiple time failure. Not a 3rd string QB who wasn’t even ACTIVATED for the game tonight. I reliable vet who can do a serviceable job of game managing if Webb isn’t what we think and the draft pick isn’t ready. Have a serious competition for the #1 spot next season, not a rigged job that guarantees the result.
If Webb wins it, then great. But make sure the other QBs get the reps to push him. If he doesn’t, then you design a package to use his athleticism.
But don’t make the guy into a sure-fire starter off of 1 good game. TJack had a handful of good performances too. The NFL is littered with 1 and 2 game wonders who were, as Tom Landry said, “The Triumph of the Uncluttered Mind.” Make him earn his place, and don’t bet the farm on him.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 29, 2010 3:37 AM CST up reply actions
Just wanted to stop by
and congratulate you guys on a great win.
You’re defense played amazing and props to your DC and staff for doing their homework and preparing very well for vick and our offense.
Joe Webb is the future of your team. He reminds me of a younger version of the newer version of Vick. Just protect him and dont let him get hit every other play like our revolving-door Oline does.
I hope sydney rice comes back with a clean bill of health. Assante made a poor decision and deserves the fine, they can suspend him next game, but we are probably gonna sit starters anyways.
in my pants.
by Kraftacular on Dec 29, 2010 7:37 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
This Game
Might Be The Best Game The Vikings Played This Season
by Vikings For Life on Dec 29, 2010 8:57 AM CST reply actions
NFL MVP
Barring any last game heroics by Vick or a collapse by Brady, in all likelihood Michael Vick may be toasting “to” Tom Brady as opposed to the other way around. Never the less, Congrats to Michael Vick in turning around your life and your football talents coming along for the ride. GREAT YEAR!
by jjlovesfootball on Dec 29, 2010 10:26 AM CST reply actions
Wow Adrian Fumbles and No one is calling for his head lol
Awesommme!
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on Dec 29, 2010 1:40 PM CST reply actions
QBOTF or not...
one thing I can say about Webb that I’m not seeing a lot is just how MUCH he improved from last game to this one. It might be a blip- or it might not. I wonder how much tape he watched with Favre after the Bears disaster.
Against the Bears, Webb was using his arm- and lack of aim- to throw interceptions quite a bit. He was forcing balls to where they shouldn’t go. His athleticism and running was great, but the constant deep pass to a Bear wasn’t good.
Against the Eagles, however, he had seemed to have COMPLETELY removed that problem. He focused on the screens and slants that allowed his sometimes iffy aim to be negated. (Plus, his aim on the Percy Harvin laser pass was dead-on.)
Going from 4 INTs to 0 is a HUGE improvement. It could have been luck. It could have been the difference in the Bear’s D to the Eagle’s D. It could have even been pure play-calling, taking the majority of those deep, oft-awry passes out of the picture.
But there is also the very large potential that it was Webb, learning from mistakes, making the necessary adjustements, and growing IMMENSELY as a quarterback in a very, very short time. If that’s the case, then a lot could be made of his future.

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