So Tavaris, just what exaclty are you saying?
I recently found an article over on Viking Gab, that linked to a blog by Tavaris Jackson. Apparently, he only updates his blog every couple of month though. He has just made a statement on his blog that is a little confusing to me. Maybe I didn't read it right, or just took it differently. He is currently at home in Alabama with his family, not doing much at all, for which I don't really blame him. However, the statement that puzzled me, is that "I'm really not sweating if Brett comes back, or not, because I'm a free agent." He does say that "right now I still feel like a Viking, but I'm going to have to wait a while to see what is going to happen."
Now, it could just be me, but I feel that TJ might not be OK with Brett coming back, and if he does come back, TJ is looking to leave. I REALLY hope that he doesn't feel that way, because even though I have never been a big TJ fan, I have to believe that learning from the Master only will turn TJ into a better player. Seeing how young TJ is, and still how raw he is at the position, I would love to see him learn from Brett for "one more year" (quote I started a few weeks back on DN) What do the rest of the Viking faithful think?
GO VIKES!!!
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Very interesting
Seems like he thinks he is on the way out. Makes me wonder if we will draft a QB, trade for one, or Rosenfels becomes that man if Favre finally does pull the plug. Just like last off season, only time will tell.
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
"You men are only risking your lives, while I am risking an almost-certain Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor!"
"We have clearance Clarence. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"
Sounds to me like he is just trying to drum up some potential offers to maybe get a little more money on his next contract.
There are a few teams that would kick his tires. The general consensus among other coaches is that Chilly and Bevell are not the brightest bulbs in the league. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more than a few teams who thought they could get more out of Tjack than we have.
by Bjorno on Feb 13, 2010 9:12 PM CST via mobile reply actions
This might possibly go back to what i've been pointing out all year
when our D was on the field and they would show the bench, Sage was always
right there with Brett going over the glossies not TJax.
Pride may be an issue here.
A bird in the hand is worth about 10.99 at KFC and makes me lick my chops
Yummy!!!!!
Good point. I remember seeing that a lot now that I think about it.
by packallday555 on Feb 13, 2010 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
I honestly think
TJax feathers were ruffled when Sage got there!
A bird in the hand is worth about 10.99 at KFC and makes me lick my chops
Yummy!!!!!
That was Sage's job.
Sage was 3rd banana he was supposed to get the images to Farve. If Tjack was #3 he would have been doing it. Tjack just wants to play. He thought he was going to be the man & Favre shows up last minute to steal his job. It’s the same thing this year. Will Favre come back or not?
Tjack just wants a shot. If the Vikes don’t give it to him he will take his chances elsewhere.
The myth about Sage being with Brett on the sidelines has also been debunked/explained away as a non-issue all year.
You may have been pointing it out all year, but pointing out something that’s incorrect doesn’t make it correct! After you “point it out,” you should re-visit the posts for the responses so you can stop seeing only what you want to see.
by JasonAve6413 on Feb 14, 2010 7:56 PM CST up reply actions
Great Quarterbacks Study on the Sidelines
T-Jack, if you read this and whether you are a Viking or with another team next year I wish you only the best. You’ve got all the physical tools to excel but you need to understand that the great quarterbacks like Brett or Peyton and others use their time on the sidelines to study photos of what the defenses are doing in various scenarios. That allows them to respond instantly when back on the field and leads to great plays. You need to do the same, whether you are in the game or not. If you back up Brett next year spend time studying when on the sidelines. You can pass on your observations to him or Chilly or Darrell Bevell and they will appreciate it. More importantly it will make you a much better quarterback.
by canadianvikesfansince68 on Feb 14, 2010 11:59 AM CST reply actions
In support of Tarvaris Jackson
The main reason Jackson has not lit up the NFL is accuracy. It is a common issue for quarterbacks with cannon arms. The good news? Accuracy can be improved through practice. The way Sammy Baugh and Joe Montana would practice it would be to tie an old tire with rope to a tree limb. Swing the tire back and forth. Throw footballs through the tire. Every time I see an old clip of Joe Montana hitting Jerry Rice in stride on his way to the endzone, I think of that. The even better news is that Jackson’s accuracy has improved all along. As his accuracy improves, he can throw harder. That allows him to hit more receivers, because more receivers will be open for more of the time.
So what does Tarvaris Jackson need? More time practicing throwing the football. Ideally, he gets more throws in games, but that might not happen right away. Once he has that, he is going to be awesome.
What really sickens me is fans who say Jackson doesn’t have the intelligence to do his job. That is just garbage. Jackson is an intelliget person, and more than enough to do his job to perfection. Jackson knows the playbook. Reading defenses is what takes time. Remember, Brett Favre said that only after nine years in the league did he learn to read defenses.
One common mistake that people make is to assume that people who are quiet are not intelligent, while people who talk a lot are highly intelligent. It’s just not true. Consider talk show hosts. Some really are intelligent, but many are just talkers who often say incorrect things or make logically invalid arguments.
Tarvaris Jackson’s personality is pretty quiet. His quiet nature should not be confused with a lack of intelligence. If you ever listened to him talk during an interview you would know he is a smart guy who easily has the brains to do a great job.
Now what about leadership? A quarterback needs to be a leader. A leader needs to talk a lot in certain circumstances. Leadership is a skill that Jackson is getting better at. We saw that in his come-from-behind victory against the Giants in 2009, and in the never-say-die attitude he brought to the playoff game against the Eagles. Leadership is not something you pick up at a seminar. It’s a skill learned over time.
Yet, Jackson’s quiet nature is a tremendous asset to him. In clutch situations, remaining calm and focused can be highly important. Calm quarterbacks like Bart Starr and Joe Montana have lots of championships.
What about confidence? It’s something any football player needs. Jackson’s confidence is growing along with his playing ability. Once his accuracy improves another notch, and he starts making some great throws, his confidence will be there.
Here is a guy, Tarvaris Jackson, who has never said one negative word about the Vikings, fans, players, coaches, organization, or anything. We have no reason to think he has ever said anything like that. Even in that blog post.
Meanwhile, he has been criticized quite a lot by fans. Fans have a right to criticize players, and that’s fine. But it speaks to Jackson’s character and intangibles that he has taken all that criticism like a man.
It sometimes takes a long time to develop a quarterback. We put a lot of investment in Brad Johnson and Rich Gannon, and other teams got the benefit of our investment. We got very little out of all that time and money we invested in them. Now we have invested a lot of money and time in Jackson. If we allow Jackson to walk, it will be an incredible waste of our investment, but for some other lucky team in the NFL, they will get a quarterback who has not yet hit his prime, who has learned under Brett Favre, whose passer rating has improved every year, who runs a 4.6 40-yard dash, who has a cannon arm, and whose play has improved each and every single year. Lucky for the Browns or whoever, very unlucky for us if we lose Jackson.

The whole point of developing a quarterback is to eventually win the Super Bowl. Jackson can win games. Even at this early point in his career, he is 10-10 as a starter. Peyton Manning was 5-15 in his first 20 games.
The Vikings are built to win now. Not in a year or two. Now. The Vikings were the most talented team in the NFL in 2009, and only a lack of playoff experience and an injury here and there stopped them from going all the way.
No quarterback has ever started for a Super Bowl winning team in his first year with the team. If that precedent holds true, our only chance to win Super Bowl XLV is with Brett Favre, Tarvaris Jackson, or Sage Rosenfels. We should bring all three quarterbacks back for 2010.
Now this post comes along and says Jackson is hedging his bets. Well, I don’t blame him. If the Vikings do the stupid thing and don’t resign Jackson, he will need to find work elsewhere. Having a blog with a highlight film on it might help his chances in that case.
While it must be frustrating for Jackson and Rosenfels to sit on the sideline and watch Brett Favre, if the Vikings do the right thing and re-sign Jackson, that would mean both of them will have the chance to start in 2011. I feel for these guys, though. If you are in the NFL, you want to play. The 2011 season might not even happen, but we fans are hoping it will happen very much. If the 2011 season does not happen, it would mean Jackson would not have a chance to start again until age 29, but at least he would be paid in the 2010 season, and there is always the chance the 2011 season will happen. Furthermore, if Jackson keeps working hard, he will be even better at that point.
If Favre, Jackson, and Rosenfels all return, no team in the NFL will have a deeper quarterback position in 2010, and we would have two solid players for the long term. Jackson is really our quarterback of the future, and Rosenfels is likely to be our backup quarterback of the future. But nobody knows for sure.
I want Tarvaris Jackson in a Vikings uniform for his entire career. I want him to be given the opportunity to be the starter again, whether that is 2010, 2011, or 2012. I believe in him 100%, and have been cheering for him the whole time. I am disappointed in my fellow fans for booing him too much and not giving our young, highly talented quarterback a real chance to develop and excel with the Vikings. I believe, though, that fans are starting to turn in favor of Jackson. The trend is fans backing Jackson. With Jackson’s improved play, the positive trend will continue. I am optimistic that all this is going to work out great for the Vikings and Jackson.
I see a big future for Tarvaris Jackson, and I want him more than anyone else to be the Vikings’ quarterback of the future, even if Favre returns for one more year.
I see Jackson playing for the Vikings as our starter long into his later 30s, with the potential for multiple achievements like the Pro Bowl, and helping the Vikings win Super Bowls.
Keep the faith.
+7
Very well said. I especially love this about TJ:
Here is a guy, Tarvaris Jackson, who has never said one negative word about the Vikings, fans, players, coaches, organization, or anything. We have no reason to think he has ever said anything like that. Even in that blog post.
Meanwhile, he has been criticized quite a lot by fans. Fans have a right to criticize players, and that’s fine. But it speaks to Jackson’s character and intangibles that he has taken all that criticism like a man.
by JasonAve6413 on Feb 14, 2010 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
Brodie Croyle never said anything bad, either.
Fans want to see positive results. Saying the right things means nothing. Making the right throws (in regular season and playoff games against real competition) means everything.
I Disagree
I see a big future for Tarvaris Jackson, and I want him more than anyone else to be the Vikings’ quarterback of the future, even if Favre returns for one more year.
I think I want him more than anyone else to be the Vikings qb of the future X7.
And yea, people are just too excited to know that our team could be elite with Brett, and not so interested to see what we can be with a more mature T-Jack! It all comes to say our team needs to think about the future instead of the upcoming season because if we lose T-Jack, who will we have when Favre retires? I surely doubt us fans want to see 3 more years of developing a QB, so why not continue developing the one we have, which has shown he has all the attributes and talents to be what we want him to be?
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 15, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
I couldn't read all of that.
Sorry MB I’ll go back but I had to reply on something you state that TJ is inteligent. Well if he is why is Childress still nuetering his play book for him? When TJ started in this third year Childress stated publicly many times that he was only running part of his play book for TJ. You could see this when Frerrote came out and the play book instantly got more exciting. So, just based off of that I have to think TJ has issues with memorization at best or at worst he believes that natural talent will out shine study. Either way I was not impressed. Secondly, TJ to me lacks heart. When we was pulled for Gus, there was an article talking about a discussion between Childress and TJ. The article talked about how Childress was talking to TJ about some of the problems he was having on the field (poor throws, bad reads, nervousness in the ocket) TJ stated that he felt like he was just playing not to lose the game when he went out, and Childress benched him. I would have expected better from someone who wanted to win.
Personally, I wish Childress had kept TJ in for the rest of the year. If he had many of these questions would be moot. Third year QB’s should be able to come out and play the game foe their club, if they fail at it then do you wait around and stink for 3-4 more years hoping he gets better or cut bait? Personally, I’d look for someone else and cut bait. We don’t have time to deal with it. If we had a servicable QB in front of him then I would be ok with it but we don’t and terribly TJ thinks he’s a good QB.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
by Grime on Feb 15, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You’re comparing Tavaris, with little experience, to Ferotte, with lots of experience. I doubt any young QB has an entire playbook open to him. it’s not necessarily because TJ has trouble memorizing.
As for TJ saying he was playing not to lose, I think the chains Chilly had on him had something to do with it. Trying to make him into a pocket passer instead of using his instincts. When you’re a young QB, you can’t pull a Favre and just do what the heck you want. Ask Cutler how that’s working out!
by JasonAve6413 on Feb 15, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
That's understandable
But stating that in three years you don’t have the play book down is a serious issue for me, being that you don’t know it, or you don’t have the ability to run it. Either way it’s a bad sign.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I don't care who you are.
It’s hard to win games with the 3 plays Chili was calling.
by KC612 on Feb 15, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly which is why we need someone who can run more than three plays.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
-7
I love how the first play of your “great thows” link is vs. the Chiefs’ backups in a preseason game. The analysis (“McGraw just left the hole” after the throw was made) explains why it worked (without mentioning that Reynaud’s defender fell down) but not so much why it was a great play (against the backups of a below average defense). As long as preseason highlights vs. inferior teams’ backups are meaningful to you, there will be no enlightenment or inner peace until Tarvaris Jackson loses several more battles to Gus Frerottes and Sage Rosenfelses and whomever else.
The real question being asked is whether you would prefer to not win a SB in the next 2-5 years for the sake of your blind unrequited love (expressed on Valentine’s Day, no less) for Tarvaris Jackson and his 7-year learning curve (that’s what it would be if he didn’t start and/or wasn’t effective until 2012) and turn our back on all collective QBs who would come into the league in the next 5+ years (leaving all of those for our competitors) or whether the team should have a Hall of Fame caliber QB now and for the next few years or a future Hall of Famer for the next year and a more promising rookie later.
Your voluminous “I love Tarvaris Jackson more than winning itself” post garnered so many responses because it was so irrational. You want T-Jack more than you want the team to win. You want to see T-Jack exclusively as the present and future Vikings’ QB ‘til his retirement do you part. No amount of reasons from regular season and playoff games can sway you from reliving that precious moment against the awful Chiefs’ backups in a preseason game. Feel how you want about your beloved Tarvaris Jackson, but don’t be surprised if very few share your feelings.
We've had this discussion before...
And I respectfully disagree with you MB and the others who are willing to roll the dice on TJack as the starting QB of the 2010 Minnesota Vikings.
I thought that I had heard/read it all, until I read this thread. TJack compared to Brees, Manning and Brady…WTF? There is no justification for that.
There’s also no logical reason to hold unto hope that TJack will develop into starter material. I have yet to read a single comment that provides any tangible evidence that TJack deserves another shot at being our starting QB.
All I’ve read is that TJack has “shown improvement,” or “he has a strong arm,” or “he is athletic,” or “he’s learned from sitting from one year behind a wily veteran like Favre,” or "he’s been loyal and hasn’t bashed the team, or “he had to deal personal issues going on at the time.”
Guess what? You have all effectively identified the bare MINIMUM in terms of qualities that a player should possess in order to receive consideration for an NFL roster.
The arguements that we’ve “invested too much in him to give up on him now” or that he was “rushed into starting to soon,” are just excuses that I might expect to come from the guy that drafted him, and not the fans. Sometimes you just have to know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run. We have to cut our loses. TJack was a project QB that Childress gambled on being able to mold him into the next McNabb. It didnt pan out. You win some you lose some. Its time to admit that this was the latter.
This team is built to win right now. If we take our chances with TJack as our starter, or record in 2010 will probably have us drafting in the top 10 in 2011 so we’ll be traveling down this road again about who our QB should be for the future. Except at that point we’ll probably have to draft a QB with the top 10 pick and hope that we come out with the next Peyton Manning and not the next Ryan Leaf.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Did you bash Rich Gannon too?
Rich Gannon was the target of too much criticism by the Vikings fan base. “Why can’t he play? He’s been with the Vikings for six years!!!! That is too much time. He will always suck.” That’s what the many Gannon-bashers said. It wasn’t true, but the Vikings cut him.
Then Rich Gannon went on to become a great quarterback for the Raiders, win the NFL MVP award, lead his team to a Super Bowl, and if a few things had gone a little differently, they might have won the Super Bowl. Despite not starting out very great, here are some of Gannon’s career statistics so that the enormity of this mistake can be made clear.
Quarterback record: 76-56
2533 completions, 4206 attempts, 60.2% completion
28,743 yards
180 TD, 104 INT
It was not quite a Hall of Fame career, but it was a very, very productive career. Rich Gannon’s career took off in 1999. Imagine if the Vikings would have had him in the ’99 and 2000 seasons. A very solid team would have been even better, and might have gone all the way.
Cutting Rich Gannon remains one of the top 10 worst personnel mistakes ever made in Vikings history. Those who do not learn from history’s mistakes are doomed to repeat them. Can I lay this out any clearer?
Every T-Jack basher misses one essential point. Like Rich Gannon before he was cut, Jackson has not stopped improving. We don’t know how good he will be. Therefore, we absolutely must keep him. No matter what.
By the way, I recently read on scout.com that Rich Gannon (who still lives in Minnesota) has been tutoring Tarvaris Jackson. Is your hat still on your head?
I support Tarvaris Jackson. I believe in him. He’s our guy. No matter what.
by medicineball on Feb 16, 2010 7:20 PM CST up reply actions
I support Tarvaris Jackson. I believe in him. He’s our guy. No matter what.
Well, that certainly makes your position clear. Everything else is justification for the conclusion already reached.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Yep, I remember Gannon
He was good with us but not great. He had a different team and different coaching staff at Minnesota. I think truly think that Gannon needed to go someplace else to help him grow as well the Raiders offense worked better for him than the Vikings did.
Remember though he was released after rotater cuff surgery got picked up by the Redskins in 1993 and dropped after three games and released then he spent a year out of football before coming back for the Cheifs where be backed up such legends as Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac (is it just me or do the chiefs like QB’s named after musicians) In 1999 he got to the Raiders where he played in a west coast offense that fit him far better than the ones he had tried to run before. As for the super bowl Gannon tossed FIVE interceptions that game three which were pick six’s.
Sorry MedicineBall I don’t think Gannon was all that and a bag of chips. I think in the end he got lucky and hit a place that had a good coach, and an offense that worked well around him.
Plus I even if he did turn out great in his last two years playing as a QB there were a lot of bad years in there. People rarely get cut becuase they are good.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
by Grime on Feb 17, 2010 8:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey medball, you moved me
Makes me want to pull Gannon out of retirement! Sign him to a 2 year $25 mil deal…
Still did nothing to convince me that TJack is our guy. Which has been my point all along. TJack supporters can only bring up evidence to support other guys like Gannon and not TJack. I am not a Tjack basher by the way. I just call it like I see it.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
It's called an opportunity cost
Gannon’s Pro Bowl appearances: 4
Pro Bowl Vikings QBs since Gannon left: 6 (Culpepper 3, Moon 2, Cunningham 1 and an MVP)
Culpepper has a higher career passer rating (good for 14th of all time and ahead of Gannon) more career completions and counting with a higher completion%, for what it’s worth. I know that you are fond of QB W-L, but the post-Gannon Vikings QBs amassed a better W-L record than Gannon, especially while Gannon was failing to keep an NFL job at all or failing to win over the coaching staff in KC.
Getting rid of Gannon after 6 forgettable years opened the door for HoF Moon, and then Brad Johnson and Cunningham who had his 2nd MVP year with the Vikings. By the time Brad Johnson was dealt for 1st, future 2nd and 3rd round picks (which became Culpepper and Fred Robbins) The Vikings had been to the playoffs more often than Gannon’s teams, too. Only a fool would throw away the post-Gannon years for more years of sucking, no 1998, no 2000, no 2004, etc.
Here are some more stats (defensive rankings) to consider since you think that Gannon was the biggest reason why the Raiders were good for 4 years:
1999: OAK 16th; MIN 18th
2000: OAK 9th; MIN 24th
2001: OAK 19th; MIN 26th
2002: OAK 6th ; MIN 30th
There’s an old saying: Defense wins championships, and by that wisdom, it’s no surprise that OAK’s 2 years in the conference championship game (and the SB in 2002) were the years that they had a top-10 defense.
2004: Gannon’s career is over; Culpepper has one of the best seasons by an NFL QB ever.
2010: The year you get over it. I’m keeping the faith.
10 worst personnel moves in Vikings history
I’m curious to see the entire list. The only reason cutting Gannon after only one decent season out of 6 years might make the list is because the Vikings’ fans have been spoiled with so few truly bad moves. I can name 10 worse than cutting Gannon:
1) Herschel Walker trade. Even though it wasn’t entirely as bad as we remember it, it was the opportunity cost associated with the draft picks which hurt the most for the longest.
2) RB D.J. Dozier. Acquiring an effective starting RB about that time also would have negated the “need” for the HW trade.
3) Trading Randy Moss for LB Napoleon Harris and the 7th round pick of 2005 (Troy Williamson…but this could have been a good trade had the Vikings selected DE DeMarcus Ware instead).
4) Drafting WR Troy Williamson and DE Erasmus James in 2005. The 2 are linked by the same draft round/year, especially since almost any other WR/DE combo from the 1st round would have worked in the team’s favor.
5) Drafting DE Derrick L. Alexander (a “great character guy”) instead of HoFer Warren Sapp.
6) DE Dimitrius Underwood. The guy was a beast on the field, but severe mental illness ended his career before it began. At least he returned all of his signing bonus $.
7) RB Leo Hayden. He accumulated no stats during his rookie year (the only year with the Vikings) before moving on to the St. Louis Cardinals, where he caught a 17-yard pass (the only reception of his career) and ran for 11 yards and a TD in 8 rushing attempts. He was out of the league after another stat-free year with the Cardinals. If Hayden was acquired by the Cardinals in a trade, then I suspect that it would be among the best trades in Vikings history.
8-10) Drafting Ryan Cook, a C, to play RT. Cutting Pro Bowler Matt Birk while in “win now mode.” Not allowing Cook to compete for the starting job at his natural position.
8-10 is very intersting...
Not sure I’d put in top ten but interesting. Hey check out my new fanpost “Can we afford to go it alone with Tarvaris Jackson.” Its long, but I hope my point gets across.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
8-10
Admittedly, I was mostly running out of time, noted that there were at least 3 things wrong with the Ryan Cook debacle, and conveniently wrapped it up. There was another 1st round pick from the 80s and surely a few more (but probably not many) from the 60s/70s.
I hear ya
Unfortuantely for Cook, he’ll always be remembered as the guy we drafted with the pick we got from the Pep trade.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I'll always remember him as the 'Penalty Machine'
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
touche
Too bad more people don’t remember him for helping AP set the single game rushing record in NFL history!
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I'm sure TJ is wondering where his next paycheck is coming from
TJ needs Favre to retire. If Favre retired, that would seriously increase TJ’s chances of not only getting a job with the Vikings, but he could be a starter as well.
At this point, the only thing TJ can do is sit, and hope somebody offers him $Contract$.
T-Jack will never be the QB Chilly thought he was going to be. Jackson is a backup QB at best, he is inaccurate to say the least and has no presence in the pocket.. His best games came against team with terrible pass defenses.
If the Vikes were smart I keep him as a backup and seek a QB for the future possibly McNabb, he is on the black every year. It is getting as bad as the Favre drama.
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. ~Mark Twain
Really!!!!
His best games came against team with terrible pass defenses.
I bet Peyton, Drew, Brett, Eli, Romo, and Tom can say the same thing.
Romo sat on the bench for three years before he was allowed to start. Tom Brady sat for one year and only started due to injury. Tarvaris has been with us for four years and has started 19 games. He won ten of them. He really is on par to be a starter in this league. If he is not developing then the staff will let him go this year. March 5, 2010 is the date by which the Vikings have to tell Tarvaris what his future looks like as a Viking.
Lets give the front office the benefit of the doubt and wait to see what they think is in the best interest of Viking football.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 15, 2010 6:53 AM CST up reply actions
Difference is they all did well when they started.
and they had confidence in themselves (or at least portrayed it.) A lot of people seem to think we can have a QB that is mediocre for a couple of years just to make sure if he’s good or bad. I don’t want that. I want a QB that wants to play right now, that isn’t going to quit when things get tough and let someone else take his spot. I want a smart competitor at the very leasat and I don’t see that in TJ at all.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
5-15 is how well Peyton Manning did when he started.
The fans asked that Eli be cut in the middle of their Superbowl year.
Romo was killed by the fans while he sat and waited.
Brady couldn’t beat out an old guy at QB.
Drew was so bad San Diego drafted a QB #1 overall in the draft.
Why the fans think they no more than a coaching staff still surprises me.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 15, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
We had the discussion of MAnning in his first year
where his team was 3-13 the year before and how he broke three passing records for rookies. No sorry I don’t see that as a valid argument. Brees was getting much better and only his injury in the end probably cost him San Diego. Romo has been a good QB on a average team, with a run block attitude line. He’s had to have time to work it out but still he has been even in his first year much better than TJ. I could go out and pick up stats on them all like I did for Manning but I don’t have the time, and I’m pretty sure what they will say. No one that I know (professionally) states that TJ is going to be a good thing in the near future.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
You state that Brees was getting better. Instead of looking at everybody’s stats, look at TJs and say that he’s not getting better.
And with AD on our team, you don’t think the focus was run block attitude for the O-line?
by JasonAve6413 on Feb 15, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
TJ's stats are getting better
but at a slower rate as well he has yet to play a whole season. Mostly because his coach pulled him. The reason isn’t as important as the fact that he was yanked out of the starting line up for a career second string QB. Now personally I don’t blame TJ for this I blame Childress I think he’s an idiot who was to worried about his job to make the correct desicion with his QB. If he had left him in then we’d have a chance to see how he really was. Putting in Gus who he KNEW was never going to start the next year was inexcusable in my mind.
TJ is never going to be a Brees, Manning, Rivers, Brady. I’m beginning to doubt he’ll be a Sanchez or a Flacco even.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
may have been smart
Childress knows how to develop a quarterback. Sending a developing quarterback out to play when he is trying to not lose the game, may have been the bigger mistake, and one that Childress avoided by playing Frerrotte instead. Jackson needed more confidence at that point. Many would-have-been-great quarterbacks were ruined by playing too early and having their confidence shot.
To call Childress “incredibly stupid” is really not supported by any evidence whatsoever.
by medicineball on Feb 16, 2010 7:24 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure where I said 'incredibly stupid'
But I won’t doubt that I’ve said it in the past although not as much as I used to. Gene Hackman said it well on the Replacement a winner wants the ball. TJ does not want the ball ergo he’s not a winner. That’s not completely true but I do think you get my meaning when I say that. You don’t get confidence by being pulled, you don’t get confidence by sitting on the side lines you get confidence by playing and having people back you up. Being pulled is exactly the opposite of building confidence, what it did was save Childress’s job. TJ is a big boy Childress put him out there for a reason, if he couldn’t hack it and wanted out then that says something to his character.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Evidence
To call Childress "incredibly stupid" is really not supported by any evidence whatsoever.
Neither is your faith in T-Jack, but you don’t let that slow you down. Clearly a lot of us just have preferences, likes, hopes and dreams, and they don’t require evidence. I begin to understand, however, that they do require a bit of tolerance.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Hear that DC
Almost had to rec that one, but then I would be like your personal fan base and I have to respect myself more than that… Don’t I?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Remember! A Vote for Me is a Vote for Migratory African Swallows!
:)
Seriously though, man, after a while it’s pretty clear that MB is convinced on where he’s standing, and that’s ok. Arguing is fruitful only up to a certain point, everyone here is entitled to their opinions. And we all know what those are like, lol.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Why are we making excuses for TJack?
Many would-have-been-great quarterbacks were ruined by playing too early and having their confidence shot.
Name one. You cant. Either a QB is great, or he isn’t. There are no farm leagues in the NFL. If you get selected on day one of the draft, you are expected to be able to play when called upon; especially if you were traded for.
Childress played Gus because TJack went 0-2. If he didn’t pull TJack when he did, Ziggy would have pulled Childress.
Last “meaningful” game was 2008 season finale. I’ll throw out the playoff game vs Philly, because it was TJacks first playoff game. 2008 vs the NYG. TJack did not play well. In fact it took a missed 48 yard FG by the NYG and a made 50 yard FG by Longwell to win that game. Did I mention that we were behind and NYG was playing all their scrubs?
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
None of his meaningful stats are getting better because garbage time and preseeason stats are worthless. The last meaningful stats of starts which were not a small sample size was in 2007, and there are reasons (like the Mighty Gus Frerotte, which any decent QB could beat for a starting role and Childress begging Brett Favre to coming out of retirement because he had given up on or no longer trusted TJ) why that is so.
beyond
That is just beyond ridiculous. The 2009 playoff game was not meaningful? LOL.
by medicineball on Feb 16, 2010 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
Are you talking about the Eagles game?
Becasue TJ did play in that and lost. True it was his first play off games but some rookie QB’s actually win them, look at the Jets this year.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Wait a minute
Brady DID beat out the former #1 overall pick and SB QB Drew Bledsoe. Brady also earned the right to call all of the plays during that first year of starting based on the quality of his play on the field. Tom Brady is a perfect example of what TJ is not (translation: really good).
Marty wanted to keep Brees, but his GM wanted to show the world the little gem he traded Eli Manning for (and so far, Rivers has had an excellent career, better than Eli) and steer clear of Brees’s then considered risky shoulder injury.
Also regarding Eli, some guy named Kurt Warner had gone 5-4 with that same team. NYG may have won another SB with Warner that year. Eli was better in his 2nd yr/1st full yr as a starter, and TJ is not the spawn of a HoFer.
I can’t believe that anyone would seriously compare Peyton Manning to Tarvaris Jackson, but whatever. Let’s compare Peyton’s and Tarvaris’s 2nd years in the league (since that is when TJ started): Peyton 13-3 with a 90.7 rating; Tarvaris Jackson 8-4 70.8 rating.
Tarvaris Jackson is like none of those guys. Were he so talented, then Brad Childress would be wowed into starting his prized darling next McNabb and not looking for veteran replacements. Any of the QBs you had mentioned would have beaten Gus Frerotte for the starting role. Any of those QBs would be working out with (with passing simulators in Peyton’s case) rather than doing nothing in the offseason, too.
The difference is that Peyton et al also had performed well against good teams (incuding playoff games) more than once. The reason that TJ has so few quality starts is because Childress and Bevell couldn’t trust him with the full playbook and didn’t see enough improvement to start him over Gus Frerotte and even begged someone out of retirement to start for the Vikings instead.
Please!
Give your own opinion of the guy already. I will be the first to admit that I was wrong if TJack does indeed take this team to the super bowl. In fact I would love to be wrong.
I don’t know why you hide behind management’s pending decision on TJack. Did you support Mike Lynn’s decision to trade away all those players and picks for Walker? Did you support the decision to draft Demetrious Underwood even though he had all that baggage? Did you support the Randy Moss trade? Did you support the Brad Johnson trade? Did you support cutting Rich Gannon?
A man is only as faithful as his options. If we keep TJack another year, it doesnt neccessarily mean that it’s because he’s the guy. It might be because he’s the only guy and there are no other options available at the time.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Relax mate
No need to attack people. I will say this if I’m wrong about TJ i’ll be eating a crow about the size of big bird.
Lucky(or unlucky..) for me I highly doubt I’ll have that chance.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
wow, I must have ranted for you to step in and calm me down
Sorry if that did come off as an attack, by the way.
All I am sayin is that LLV keeps hitting us with this idea that if TJack is still on the roster in after March 5, 2010, that its some sort of sign that he’s going to deliver us our first Super bowl. I’d like for LLV to go out on a limb and go on record and tell us what he truly thinks of TJack.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Sorry about that
Sorry about that, I’m probably a bit to much of a nazi on that stuff hate seeing blogs degenerate. I enjoy the back and forth with Pro TJ lovers like LLV and he has in other posts tried to explain his erroneous opinion on TJ in more detail. I’m sure he gets tired of writing the same terrible reasons to keep TJ just like I get tired of writing the same incredibly well researched reasons to feed him a pack of rabid gerbils (TJ that is not LLV) (Although I might toss MB to them as an appetizer…)
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
OK, I will try one last time to only because I want to save the poor gerbils
that Grime is killing off.
I am not a NFL football scout. I don’t attend daily practices and I don’t have any information as to whether TJ has improved under Brett Farve. I do have a coaching staff that has PROVEN to me that they do know the answer to these questions.
They have proven that they know how to evaluate talent.
They have proven that they know when a QB is not good enough. ( hiring Farve, pulling TJ)
When we talk about replacing a QB or finding the QB of the future I am not as quick to jump ship as some are. But I am willing to jump if necessary
I do not believe that Chilly will keep TJ out of pride. Chilly has a long term contract and has done nothing to hurt the Vikings in his time here as a coach.
Now on to TJ. He is a pro NFL QB with 10 wins and 9 losses. This is not such a bad record. Not great but there have been many worse. I like his athletic ability. His arm strength. His decision making is his drawback. I don’t know from the 2009 season whether or not that has improved. If it has then he probably has real future possibilities.
The NFL player contracts are up on March 5,2010. By then the coaching staff must make a decision. They will tell me ( you probably won’t listen or agree no matter what they say) by their action if TJ has improved to Future QB status or not.
How simple is that. In 20 days I will know if he is a 1 Million per year backup
( tendered for a second round pick) or our future ( tendered with 3 Million and a First and third pick). I apologize if my lack of knowledge doesn’t allow me to be the best judge of QB talent for the Vikings.
BTW, I’m really OK with your questioning my decision process. You make valid points but we draw different conclusions. You are convinced TJ is the anti-christ and I’m not convinced he isn’t Brad Johnson in hiding. You look at his field actions critically and I look at his record leading this team. Valid arguments.
But I will chime in on the Brad Johnson debate. People have missed the point of that one.
The Vikings let Fran Tarkenton go because he wanted more money.
The Vikings let Joe Kapp go because he wanted more money.
The Vikings let Brad Johnson go because he was a free agent and wanted more money.
The Vikings let Culpepper go ( rightly so) because of a contract dispute.
Our history is replete with cheap ownership that didn’t believe a QB was worth the money. Maybe this is true in the 70’s. It is not true today. Ziggy isn’t the ownership of old. He proved that with Brett.
We won’t be making another Brad Johnson mistake. If TJ is the real deal then we will know by March 5, 2010. I will support the decisin of Chilly and the Staff on this one.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 18, 2010 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
I understand what you are saying
And your right TJ does have incredible athletic ability and his flashes of brilliance are incredible at times. If we tender him as a second string QB I’m fine with that, if we try and place him as our next starting QB I can’t say I’ll be fine with it but I will be very interested in seeing what he can do. If TJ has learned pocket awareness and a bit more about the game and how it works I think he could be a very good QB. I also think he could be a very good QB if he was in a simpler system. However, I don’t think Childress is entirely impartial on this choice, so he will have to prove himself quite a bit before I stop expecting throws to his receivers nikes…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
OK, then send them a Gerbil
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 18, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
I can see the Gerbil comment
is not going anywhere soon… By the way can I have your address? Just curious…..
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
McNabb is no
spring chicken. I don’t see him being our QB of the future.
For the next 3-5 years?
I think the team could compete for a SB in the next 2-3 or 3-5 years, but only with a good QB. That means I’m all for McNabb and all done with inaccurate QBs with killer abs and self-esteem issues.
I agree
plus it would give us more time to look for the next one instead of one year… It stinks to constantly be going through QB’s but we are not in a situation to be picky. Personally, I would take McNabb or Pennington over TJ if Favre doesn’t come back.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Pennington
I agree that even with the shoulder issues, I’d rather have Pennington for a few games at minimum if we can’t have Favre or McNabb. I tend to think that McNabb may be able to play until he’s 40, so I’d love to have him, too. Plus, Childress would actually trust McNabb from day 1.
Yeah the shoulder injury is the tricky bit
Would be nice to see something about him in the press.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Chilly called Jackson a project when he drafted him
He beat out Rosenfels in spring training and showed he’s developed to the point of deserving a chance to start. The Favre thing means it will take longer to know if he’s just a marginal starter/solid back-up or if he’s an average or better starting QB. I don’t expect he’ll ever be elite like a Brady, Manning or Breese. But he could still be a McNabb or Hasselback level QB. Yes, he’s taken a long time to develop, but that was expected given where he was when drafted. I hope he is resigned for at least 2 years and gets a chance to start.
Man you're entitled to your own opinon
But when it’s just a flat out pathetic opinion, no one wants to hear it! Throw away Jackson for Favre? What, yeah don’t post anything this ignorant!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 15, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Correction: Throw away Jackson for Mcnabb I meant!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 15, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
Why is that ignorant?
If someones opinion is that TJ is not a good QB then I would throw him away period. Picking up someone else is just smart. I know many people have ideas that TJ will miraculously become a great QB next year but I havn’t seen anything to prove it.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Well what have you seem to disagree with it?
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 15, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Dude, have you watched Jackson in his 3 years with you guys? You do realize he was the only thing holding you guys back right?
The guy just has so many problems. Accuracy, pocket presence, understanding of the game, leadership abilities, and confidence. The guy had the advantage of facing 8 men boxes nearly every single game. Teams went all out to stop AP with Jackson at Qb, and Jackson could almost never take advantage of it.
Childress didn’t even have the whole playbook open to Jackson. Whether that was because Jackson couldn’t learn the plays or whether Childress just didn’t trust him with the plays, either one isn’t good. And to some of you who are saying 3 years isn’t enough to learn the playbook that is just ridiculous.
To disagree with the fact that TJ will become a great Qb next year would be the rational thing to do based off of his play. Sure, the guy had some good games against bottom of the league type defenses. But at the same time he had some bad games against bottom of the league defenses, and usually had very poor games against somewhat good defenses.
by packallday555 on Feb 15, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
Yea of course you wouldn't see what T-jack is capable of bringing to the table
Because you’re a Packers fan, but honestly you don’t think he was rushed and never really gotten the veteran help he needed to become better before this year? I mean if Aaron can become Great behind Brett, I sure damn believe T-Jack can!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 15, 2010 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
'Rushed' QB
UnBanned, do you seriously believing that putting a rookie QB who may not be ready for NFL prime time, onto the playing field to experience what the reality-beyond-the-film is like, can ruin him? I mean, seriously, think about it for a moment.
I can see where the guy might fail, where he might flop and flounder around til he gets his footing, but if he has what it takes, he WILL get his footing and start performing. But I can’t see where giving him play time can ruin the guy.
The bottom line for T-Jack is that when it’s his turn to step behind center, he’d better be ready. The time for excuses is over.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
See also: John Elway or Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman
If early playing time “ruins” a QB, he wasn’t one of the truly good ones anyway.
I do believe that David Carr may have gotten sack shocked, and it will be interesting to see what happens with the rest of his career. Joey Harrington, on the other hand, did not look any better in his 2nd chance with the Falcons.
Hey did you forget he came from a lower-level college
and didn’t really face tough teams to give him enough expereince of what was to come in the NFL? Some qb’s just need to sit there first year or two behind a proven veteran, you just can’t expect every qb that was possibly “getting rushed” to become the Peyton Manning’s of the league!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 16, 2010 7:56 PM CST up reply actions
Don't buy into the 'rushed' QB theory
I agree that T-Jack may well have needed more time because he didn’t come from an NFL-like system. But how long can it take for an average IQ human being to pick up the game of football at the NFL level? Come on, man! It isn’t rocket science!
I do agree that if the guy is getting pounded, play after play because he’s got a crappy line protecting him, it’s going to be a lot harder and take longer because he doesn’t have the time to make his reads that a QB on a better team would have. But if he can rise to that challenge (the way other top-notch QBs have done), he’s going to be just that much better a QB for it.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Everyone has to be accountable at some point
Either it’s Childress for making a mistake or TJ for not manning up to the responsability. College does not make people ready for work, yet when you get into MS from college you have a week before you better start producing and a couple of months before you better be producing as well as everyone else. If that means you work 90 hour weeks I hope you enjoy the office. If you don’t or can’t do this they let you go. They don’t keep you for five years hoping that some day you’ll be a great developer.
I know Microsoft isn’t football, but I would contend that both of them are fairly difficult places to work with a lot of pressure and expectations.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
So did Joe Flacco, look how good he's played from the get-go
Div II Delaware.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Three years and he's rushed?
Stafford looked better than TJ did right out of college on the worst team in the league. I"m not saying his numbers were pretty, but he handled himself well and looked like he knew what he was doing. I didn’t see him throwing passes into people feet nor did I see him hopping around in the pocket. Did he throw int’s? Sure did, but we’ll go back to worst team in football for that one.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
by Grime on Feb 16, 2010 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
OK
Yeah, we should have drafted Matthew Stafford. And Joe Montana, Emmitt Smith, Reggie White, and Tom Brady.
by medicineball on Feb 16, 2010 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
That would have been AWESOME!
Although for some reason I can’t handle Brady. Sarcasm ill becomes you MB.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Yea of course you wouldn’t see what T-jack is capable of bringing to the table Because you’re a Packers fan..
Well by this logic I therefore shouldn’t be able to see that AP is capable of being the best Rb of all time. Or that Rice is capable of being an elite WR in the years to come. Or even that Jaspar Brinkley looks like he could become a good MLB. The fact that I don’t think Jackson is a capable starting Qb has to do with his play on the field. Not with the fact that he is a Viking.
but honestly you don’t think he was rushed and never really gotten the veteran help he needed to become better before this year?
Rushed? Maybe when he had to go in and start at the end of his rookie year you could consider that rushed but an 2 offseasons and playing experience should be enough eliminate thinking he has been rushed. Well honestly, he was here when Brad Johnson was and he is a veteran. Hell, even Ferotte was a veteran. Neither are nearly as good as Favre but both are experienced veteran guys.
I mean if Aaron can become Great behind Brett, I sure damn believe T-Jack can!
This is just ignorant. So stick any Qb behind Favre and he automatically becomes good? Sure it helps a ton to be able to sit behind Favre and watch him run the offense and all the little nuances but that doesn’t still mean you don’t have to have the talent. Rodgers is regarded by many as one of the most physically talented Qb’s in the league, if not the most talented, and he has the brains to go along with that. (Proven by his TD:INT ratio)
I don’t think Jackson has the same talent as Rodgers, and it doesn’t seem like he has the brains either but who knows. He’ll probably get one more chance, and for his sake he’d better hope he doesn’t look like the same lost Qb he has his first 3 years in the league.
by packallday555 on Feb 16, 2010 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
I'll trade you Rodgers for TJ
I’ll even through in my spleen…
Vikings: Where Packers go to excel!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Thanks packallday
You learn something every day. I had no idea the intelligence of a qb can be proven based on their TD/INT ratio.
Based on that logic you could just prop a qb up and all he has to do is throw when the receiver is open, and when the receiver is covered a little bit instead of letting the receiver make a play, that hypothetical qb could just hold on to the ball for way way to long and get sacked. But could yet be regarded as an intelligent qb because of their TD/INT ratio.
Haha should have figured. Should have pointed out that TD:INT ratio CAN be an indicator of a Qb’s intelligence.
You know the point I was trying to make. If you watch Rodgers play Qb it’s clear he is smart, and he knows what he’s doing out there. If you watch Jackson, he looks lost.
by packallday555 on Feb 16, 2010 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
Okay lets settle this!
When T-Jack prove you all wrong what will you all have to say for yourselves?
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 16, 2010 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
I’ll tell you I was wrong. Just don’t ever think that’ll happen.
by packallday555 on Feb 16, 2010 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
And how can anybody possibly analyze T-Jack fairly
with Chilly’s playbook, which Favre had to rig up and make his owns? T-Jack being young might didn’t have the authority or demand to audible out of plays like Favre, and stuck with the lame play that millions knew was coming, including the defense! I think Chilly needs an open mind on the playbook with T-Jack so he can really be given all the tools to prove himself!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 17, 2010 7:32 AM CST up reply actions
Well.
When Jackson was playing last year, and Frerrote took over after a couple of games I noticed an instant change in the play book. Favre obviously brings even more to the game than Frerrote did, but Childress did open up his KAO a lot more when Gus took the reigns.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
The difference in playcalling
Was even noticeable when Brooks Bollinger was in.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
There was a reason the playbook was limited though..Do you really think Childress didn’t want to make all the plays available to Jackson? For one reason or another he obviously didn’t feel that he could.
Ferotte came in for him and it looked like a whole new offense. And obviously with Favre it looked like you guys used every play in the playbook.
by packallday555 on Feb 17, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
From what I've heard
Even Favre didn’t utilize the whole playbook. I think some of the plays were used for the post-season. (Or that was their intended purpose).
To be forthright
Chilly drafted T-Jack and Chilly knew what the playbook looked like. If he thought it to complicated for TJ then go draft someone else.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 18, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
I will happily admit I was wrong
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Can't compare TJax to Rogers
Rogers starred at PAC 10 school. TJax played at Div IAA school.
Rogers was projected at a top 10 pick and invited to Radio City music hall on draft day. TJax was projected as maybe a 4th or 5th round “project” QB.
Rogers immediately showed his potential in his first year of action despite the team’s 6-10 record, infact most talking heads said he was the best QB in the division heading into ’09.
Last but not least, Favre was sent packing in GB because of Aaron Rogers while Favre was brought to Minnesota because of TJax.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Thank You nobody really understands that!
But all qbs don’t progress at the same rate and people are just getting pissed that T-Jack is not progressing as fast as they want him to! Even Favre said he couldn’t read a defense until his 9th season!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 16, 2010 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
How long is his progression going to take then? Are you ok with the little baby steps he appears to be making? You probably have 2 years of McKinnie, Hutch, Williams, Winfield, and Leber playing at the high level their all playing at now. Do you truly believe Jackson can lead you to the SB when not even of the best Qb’s of all time was able too?
by packallday555 on Feb 16, 2010 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
You're not understanding
T-Jack is our best option right now, and what exactly is “Babysteps” you’re reffering to? Why should we replace or even draft a rookie qb to restart this whole process of developing a qb, when our Qb we have now appears to be making strides to be our QB of the Future? Only thing I wouldn’t argue with is if Favre came back, other than that T-Jack is our best option, and he sure can be our qb that some think he can be!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 17, 2010 7:24 AM CST up reply actions
If you can draft a very good rookie then yes
You do replace him. because it might take a very good QB a year to be ready I don’t think TJ will be ready in under five, and maybe that’s being optimistic. Some people just can’t play football in the NFL.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Why should we replace or even draft a rookie qb to restart this whole process of developing a qb, when our Qb we have now appears to be making strides to be our QB of the Future?
This is the problem with your argument. How does he appear to be the Qb of the future?? He has held your offense back in his 3 years playing. Childress went out and traded for Sage Rosenfels, and then he and the rest of your team begged Favre to come out of retirement. While you may feel he “is the Qb of the future” it doesn’t appear Chilress and the organization does.
And he wasn’t even your best option. Rosenfels looked better then Jackson in the preseason.
by packallday555 on Feb 17, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Rosenfels threw
an INT in the preseason. Jackson did not. Sage did not look better in fact he looked worse which is to be expected his first year in our offense.
Yea because T-jack was the number 2 qb
which speaks for itself!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 17, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
How much does that really matter though? Chilly easily could have just named Jackson #2 to make himself look a bit better since Jackson is his guy.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
There you go not trusting the leprechaun
he’ll take us to his pot o’ gold!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I wouldn't even mind if TJ took baby steps
I don’t care if he can’t play at all ever. The problem I’m having is that he’s supposed to be the QB of now. If we had a QB he was backing up he could do whatever he wanted. Problem is we don’t. So instead we get into discourse about him being our starter when clearly even to his supporters he’s not ready.
If he’s on Gannon’s progression then he’ll be ready to start in about nine years.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
UBV: I don't think you understood my point
You can’t compare TJax to Rogers because Rogers, in only his second year as a starter, is already considered one of the best in the league. TJax probably couldn’t start for any team in the league.
I know all QB’s dont progress at the same rate. But the great one’s progress faster than the mediocre ones. That’s what makes them great. Favre may not have been able to read defenses until his 9th season and Elway may not have won a Super Bowl until his last 2 years in the league. However both QB’s were well established by their 4th year in the league.
When a team is in rebuilding mode, it can afford to allow a young QB all the time he needs to adjust to the NFL game. The Minnesota Vikings are not rebuilding in 2010.
You wouldnt allow your son to drive your Lamborgini with a learner’s permit would you?
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
by NMVike on Feb 17, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And it's not called "Miraculously"
When he works hard and gets better as the years go along!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 15, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
when you are on the bottom
and take baby steps to get better that does not mean you should be kept. And I disagreed because I think keeping TJ is not a good idea. So throwing him away doesn’t seem that bad.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Throw away a young inconsistent QB
for an old inconsistent QB? Doesn’t make sense to me either…
Well you get another QB obviously
Really KC612 are you calling Brett inconsistant? I would say he’s been playing very consistant for us. As for the last game, well if that’s the case then I guess you can call Payton Manning inconsistant as well? Favre is not our future, that is for sure, he is at best our now and at worst our past.
We will need a new QB to take TJ’s spot. The upsides that TJ brings don’t seem to match what Childress wants him to do. Maybe he’s a bad fit for this offense. He’s got a cannon for and arm and mobility, it seems Childress wants a posession pass with accuracy and who passes out of a pocket. Not sure why Childress drafted the kid in the first place, but then maybe next time he’ll have a better idea and pick a QB that fits into his system better.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I'm calling McNabb
inconsistent. Getting Brett back would be the best case scenario and having TJ/Sage battle it out would be second best IMO.
I guess we'll agree to disagree
Not on McNabb I agree he is inconsistent(sp?) But on TJ and Sage, nothing like having two back up qb’s battling it out for a starter position.. Personally I would much rather have Sage in there than TJ. If I never see him do a hop pass again it will be to soon.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Between T-Jack and Sage, personally I’d go with T-Jack. I just don’t trust Sage’s judgement. Could be wrong, and hopefully I am, but his judgement makes me nervous.
As for the hop-pass, who cares? I don’t care if he does a triple sommersault with double scoop ice cream cone in his off-hand while singing Yankee Doodle Dandy, as long as he completes the pass :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
You forgot the cherry!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Imagine if he did something remotely
Similar to what you just called out..
Obviously minus the ice-cream.
I think I’d die in laughter
As for the hop-pass, who cares? I don’t care if he does a triple sommersault with double scoop ice cream cone in his off-hand while singing Yankee Doodle Dandy, as long as he completes the pass :)
Haha but that’s the thing. He doesn’t complete it!
by packallday555 on Feb 17, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Keyword: Imagine
If he did some crazy move prior to throwing a pass (Somersalt being untouched being done 1-handed with a football in his hand, lands to his feet and throws a deep TD pass…) I’d probably lose it! Espeically because I read this post HAHA
That's it Jackie Chan for QB.
I’m sending a letter to Chilly.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
And replace Chilly with John Woo!!!
Then we’d see Jackie Chan on the field, dual-wielding footballs and scoring two touchdowns on the same play!!! YEAH!!! :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
It became a picture in my head
and that picture was GOOD!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Not inconsistent
From his 2nd year in the league and onward, McNabb has always maintained an INT% of 2.5 or less. In every season he has played, he has thrown more TDs than INTs. He was selected to 5 consecutive Pro Bowl teams and led the team to 4 consecutive NFC Championship Games (and a SB loss). Injuries, not inconsistency, derailed 3-4 recent years. From 2007-2009, he increased his completion% to 60+. He has beaten the likes of Jeff Garcia, Michael Vick, and Kevin Kolb for his starting job, all of whom were better than Gus Frerotte. You can’t call that inconsistent because nobody else has done that except perhaps Tom Brady, and especially not TJ.
In TJ’s 2nd year, he did not match McNabb’s 2nd year numbers, even with more favorable rule changes in place for TJ. I could go on, but all of these reasonable things are probably lost on anyone dumb enough to call Donovan McNabb “inconsistent.”
I don't necessarily think Int's are the only stat for inconsistant play
and I may be wrong maybe it’s injuries that side line him. But if you watch him play he can have a Manning day and then the next week have a close to TJ day. My brother lived in Philly for about 5 years. In that time I heard far more than I wanted to about McNabb, he’s a good QB without a doubt, but he does have some games where you just look at him and go hrm…
Maybe it’s his line? Don’t know.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
He can’t be having too many of these “inconsistent” games given the team’s W-L record since he’s been there. Week to week, every QB’s stats go up and down, usually up vs. bad teams (unless it’s a Chlldress-coached team vs. DET) and down vs. good Ds, sometimes winning ugly anyway.
Truly inconsistent QBs have a good year once every 3-5 years like Frerotte or Dilfer or Gannon in his 20s and early 30s or don’t seem to have learned anything (Tarvaris Jackson) after 3+ years. No truly inconsistent QB has gone to 5+ consecutive Pro Bowls or 4+ Conference Championship Games because it would be impossible.
Philly booed Cunningham to the bench, too.
Oh I agree with you he's a great QB
and his inconsistancies are more annoyance than a real problem. Philly fans are just a bunch of whiney babies. They should be Vikes fans for a year and understand what real QB issues are.
Let’s see our problem TJ/Sage
There problem McNabb/Vick/Kolb…
I don’t see the problem…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
As to the original Post
“I’m really not sweating if Brett comes back, or not, because I’m a free agent.”
Lets say you are a salesperson under contract with your company. You are the #2 salesperson. Your contract is up this year but you can not do anything ( like go out for another job interview) until March 5, 2010. It doesn’t matter whether the #1 salesperson is retiring or not. Your responsibility is to sit back and wait for your employer to make you an offer. If it isn’t for enough money you can simply go out and test the market. If you get a better offer your current employer can match it.
As Tarvaris said. “I’m not sweating it because I’m a free agent”. I believe he could have phrased it differently but I think that is what he meant.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
or...
“I’m not worried about what the #1 salesman will or won’t do, I’m worried about what’s going to happen to me now that my contract is over.”
by JasonAve6413 on Feb 15, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
thank you
for all the great comments to my post. it’s great to see all the involvement by the Viking faithful. i hope that i didn’t come accross as questioning tj for his loyalty to the orginization. he has been a great Viking, and i really hope he continues his carreer with us. i support any and all players that put on the purple uniform, no matter who they are, or that they never turn out to be of any help. i appreciate the effort they put forth to make our team better. i just wanted to get some feedback from other Viking fans as how they would perceive his comments, and as always, you guys did not disappoint!
GO VIKES!!!
by indianavikesfan on Feb 15, 2010 7:18 AM CST reply actions
No player is going to say
“If I am going to be a free agent and its clear I’m going to be a backup on my current team, I’m going to sign with them anyway and not even look for opportunities to start (and get a bigger contract probably) somewhere else”
I don’t understand why this is so confusing to you. Any young player at any position — not just Tarvaris Jackson, not just at quarterback — is gonna say that.
If he had said anything other than that, I would be stunned.
He is a "restricted free agent" and can't go anywhere for one year.
He said it correctly. Just awkwardly. There is absolutely nothing he can do for now. He has to wait to see if the Vikings want him. If they do want him he has to see how bad they want him and if anyone else wants him more. " Right now I feel like a Viking". I translate that to mean no one has told him they don’t want him back.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 15, 2010 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
I usually disagree with you, puddnhead, but we’re eye to eye on this one!
by JasonAve6413 on Feb 15, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
thanks
for responding. when i 1st read his blog post, my initial reaction was that he was saying that if Brett comes back, i’m going to try and leave the Vikings. i wrote this post, because i wanted to get other Viking fan’s reaction to it to see if they felt the same. although part of me agrees with you regarding that any player would want to seek an opportunity to start on a team, i’m not convinced that there is that much of a market for tj as a starter. he has not proven himself to be that elite of a qb that all teams look for to lead their team. that would also mean that he may not get a bigger paycheck. i would love to see tj stay and learn from Bett for “one more year”.
GO VIKES!!!
by indianavikesfan on Feb 16, 2010 6:38 AM CST up reply actions
Jackson
Charlie Walters also has reported that T-jack wants to stay in Minnesota. http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_14238686?nclick_check=1
I’ll admit I’m on the bandwagon after the initial sock of Childress taking Jackson in the second round I jumped on board. Everyone else should be on board with Jackson as well. Everybody knew coming into this that Jackson would not be ready to start for two to three years because he was so raw coming out of Division 1AA.
: "I think you judge quarterbacks a little bit differently…When you see what you want at the quarterback position, you need to go get it. And that’s exactly what I see with Tarvaris Jackson is a guy that’s a piece of clay, that has all the skills in terms of, No. 1, what’s he look like throwing the football?…He’s got a great throwing motion; he’s athletic. He has all those things that we’re looking for, and he’s wired right. That’s important for a quarterback. I think he’s a flatline guy. I think he’s a sponge. You’re talking about a guy that never had a coach there as a quarterback coach. So what can he do with coaching? -Brad Childress
Jackson does have all of the physical tools to be a successful quarterback in the league. He has a rocket arm, great speed, and athleticism. How many times did you watch Favre get sacked and think of how Jackson would have avoided that sack or could have scrambled fora huge gain?(I’m not saying I didn’t love Favre) His game however does need a few adjustments. He needs to work on his accuracy as mentioned above, his footwork mechanics are also skewed and he should probably stop wearing his bling during the game.
I’m going out on a limb but it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that at this moment in time Jackson has been the second best quarterback taken in that draft. Yes that means better than Vince Young, Matt Leinart, and Kellen Clemens. Statistically he has improved every year and each year we have shown bright spots in his game. When he spelled Favre during Seattle he looked poised and comfortable in the pocket and the offense didn’t stall.
The Favre Factor. Hopefully after sitting behind one of the best quarterbacks of all time Jackson learned something. Hopefully he picked his brain and took in everything like a sponge. Sitting behind Favre for two years would be the best thing for Jackson career. Think Hasselbeck. Think Rogers.
Whenever Favre decides to hand the keys over to Jackson he is going to be ready to drive this offense.
SKOL PURPLE
How many times did you watch Favre get sacked and think of how Jackson would have avoided that sack or could have scrambled fora huge gain?
NEVER!
Favre was sacked less than the combo of TJack/Gus or TJack/Bollinger. And that’s considering that the line Favre played behind was starting 2 first year players who clearly had problems.
Favre was sacked less due to his pocket awareness and quick release. TJack is below average in both categories.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
Also I never saw Favre throw a hop pass
Or tag 15 passes in a row into his recievers feet.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Tarvaris Jackson and Growth
We’ve watched him from the beginning and if there’s one word to describe him, it’s ‘inconsistent’. One thing we haven’t had recently is the ability to watch him over a decent stretch to see if he’s actually progressed. I can’t see how, as Favre’s understudy, he couldn’t have become better in the past year. In fact, on the few plays he did have, he looked very Favre-like behind the center.
He’s had a chance to play behind, and talk to, a highly experienced QB who likely advised him on what sort of film to watch, and told T-Jack what he saw when he was looking at the defenses. These guys do watch tape together, and they do talk. The question is, how much did T-Jack pick up? How much attention was he paying and how well did he understand it? Can he translate that understanding into actually looking at a ‘live’ defense and reading it? Can he adjust plays on the fly to adapt to what the D is doing and take advantage of it’s weaknesses? Does he even understand what the weaknesses of various defensive forms, setups, and tactics are?
All of that is what we hope Tarvaris Jackson picked up this past year. Even if he didn’t master it, I’d like to know if at least he understood it and has a place to start now in his progress forward. Or is he just going to call the play that Bevel sends in to him and hope for the best?
What I’d like to hear is an assessment from Childress. A straight-up honest assessment of how good Jackson is NOW, and if Chilly and Bevel admit that the man can’t do the job, then we know. Until then, we’re trying to form an opinon based on information at least a year old.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Boo to your rationalism!
I’d much rather keep to my love to hate him relationship I built over the years. I hope at least Faver taught him that more receivers don’t catch with their shoe laces.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Very funny
Sometimes we forget to laugh at our own posts. Thanks for reminding me that we are only expressing opinions and not facts
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 16, 2010 7:49 AM CST up reply actions
Speak for yourself.
I’m right all the time every time, at least that’s what my ex wife says…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Wow you are the same as me Grime....
I am a legend in my own mind too!!! ; )
Sure all others feel the same about me, is understandable lol!!!
Another great day to be a Viking fan – is it Sunday yet?
I would rather be IN the Arena than watching from the stands...That is my life!
* Read Teddy Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" if you need further explanation...
by vikingfanfrom afar on Feb 16, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
God I hate the off season.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
What off season
Franchise tags have started, RFAs by March 5, Combine, Draft in April, Training Camp. I haven’t got time for football.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 16, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
People like you are the reason I'm still sane
Thanks I appreciate it!
Seriously, every year I start getting the shakes around Feb as it sinks in I have nothing but yard work to do on Sundays… Oh and argue with people on DN. We should host more Packer fans over here so at least we have people we can argue with and not feel bad about calling them a holes.. :D
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
We should form a help group
1- 800—ImA-Geek.
Call now for a short message from the commissioner explaining the intricacies of the NFL drug policy and how each offense can be appealed to a local court.
If that wouldn’t be mind numbing enough I don’t know what is.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 16, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Your answer
What I’d like to hear is an assessment from Childress. A straight-up honest assessment of how good Jackson is NOW, and if Chilly and Bevel admit that the man can’t do the job, then we know. Until then, we’re trying to form an opinon based on information at least a year old.
Since 2006 (the year TJack was drafted) Childress and Co. have brought in via FA: Favre, Brad Johnson, Gus. Via trade: Sage Rosenfels, Brooks Bollinger, Kelly Holcomb. Via Draft: Tyler Thigpen, JDB.
If that doesn’t tell you what they think of TJack’s ability as the future and leader of this team, nothing will. TJack was benched in favor of Gus in ‘08 because Childress was on the hot seat and needed to save his job. The fact that TJack was 2-4 in ’08 makes that decision a wise one. Favre was brought in this year, again to save Childress’ job, but more importantly to give this veteran team a legit shot at the title.
"We have a right to be proud, for in our veins flows the blood of many brave races who fought as the lion fights for lordship. Here, in the whirlpool of European races, the Ugric tribe bore down from Iceland the fighting spirit which Thor and Odin gave them, which their Berserkers displayed to such fell intent on the seaboards of Europe, ay, and of Asia and Africa too, till the peoples thought that the werewolves themselves had come."
-from Bram Stoker's Dracula
I really don't understand peoples loyalty to TJ
I mean he has shown very little through out his career. He may be improving but it is at an anemic rate. Sometimes coaches and fans have to admit a mistake and cut their losses before it drags them to far down.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
If our quarterback was Peyton Manning
The same people would want him traded after throwing the pick in the Super Bowl.
Sometimes you have to break off your pursuit of immediate gratification and ultimate perfection, and just go with what you have. With Tarvaris Jackson, at least we have a quarterback with potential. Aren’t you glad we don’t have Jamarcus Russell or Jake Delhomme?
If our quarterback was Peyton Manning
The same people would want him traded after throwing the pick in the Super Bowl.
I know you’re gulping the Tarvaide a bit too fast, buddy. Jackson may be many things, but he’s not Peyton Manning. He’s not even an Eli Manning.
And the last time I checked, Fave did the same and most Viking fans want him back. :)
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Seriously? You think I would toss Manning?
Have you heard me say a bad thing about Favre? Seriously, just because you don’t like someone doesn’t mean your a hater. Actually, that’s not even true it’s not that I don’t like TJ it’s just that I don’t think he’s a great fit for the team, and we need someone now and TJ isn’t it.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Eli Manning
Remember that game against the Vikes where he threw something like 10 INT’s? Well, TJ has never done that so maybe you’re right about him not even being an Eli Manning.
My thoughts...
I am no where near biased towards T-Jack like most of you are. I see a lot of people are either hopping the train or jumping off the train when it comes to potentially starting him.
In a perfect world, Favre comes back, and has a great season once again. Proving to the world you can even play at a high level when your over 40. He did initially sign a 2-year deal, and he did have a great successful season. He obviously still has it in him and understands Chilly’s offense better and knows what it takes to win.
I think our obvious best chances are with Favre.
With T. Jack, he is already somewhat familiar with the playbook. You can bring in a rookie, you can bring in a veteran, but I think our 2nd best chances are to mold a QB to become a franchise QB. That would most likely T-Jack.
T-Jack obviously has some issues to work on, so sitting behind one of the greats (Favre) and learning more from him, he’ll become better. One would think he would feel more confident working with him.
If T-Jack got more garbage time playing, I think this would boost his confidence. If Favre doesn’t return, I think T-Jack will have more pressure. Give him a chance to win a game on his own and I think his confidence will be there.
Well thank GOD for TJ is all I can say.
Without him what the hell would we discuss during the off season?! We’d be stuck to meaningful discourse about the draft and free agents we can’t sign. Whew thank God for saving me from that! When do we know if we keep him or not? Two weeks?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I believe the final day for offering a tender to a RFA is March 5, 2010
The same day as the new contract year. Then 45 days to get an offer. 7days to match. I think.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 17, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
the discussion here is good, but now this....
One of the topics has been "Childress benched T-Jack in 2008. A reason given was that Jackson was trying not to lose, trying not to make a mistake. Instead of trying to win.
Here is Jason Worilds, defensive end, Virginia Tech. He is a prospect in the 2010 NFL draft.
Football is such a warrior sport, you don’t want to go out on the field at any time and have doubts. Any time you have doubts, your opponent has an edge on you. I was going out there every week knowing that my shoulder could come out at any moment, so it told me a lot about myself—how far I was willing to go, how much I loved this game, and what I was willing to do for this game and my teammates.
That is good football knowledge.
Jackson was playing with doubts, ergo Childress did the wise thing and let him regain his confidence on the sideline. When his doubts had left him and his confidence returned, and Frerrotte happened to get injured, Childress put Jackson back in the starting line-up, and kept him there until all-time great Brett Favre arrived. To me it sounds like both Childress and Jackson have been doing the right thing.
It almost seems like your trying to forgot about the fact that Jackson indeed have confidence issues? Why do you think those confidence issues mounted? I’m no mind reader but I would guess they came as a result of his poor games against GB and Indy. Who is to say those same confidence issues won’t come back if he plays a couple poor games? The pressure on Jackson to perform well was pretty great because Childress saying he was the next McNabb and just because of him being “Chilly’s guy”. Imagine the pressure he would have on him if Favre didn’t come back next year and he was the starter.
People saw Favre instantly make your offense probably the most balanced and best offense in Vikings history (maybe 2nd best to 1998. Kind of a toss up.) Your offense was basically unstoppable as you averaged like 30 points a game. With Jackson starting your offense would not be as good, and that’s even if Jackson did play well. So imagine if he plays average-below average (like he has in the past). The offense would still likely be better with the emergence of Rice and addition of Harvin but probably no where near as dominant as it was this past season.
The media, especially here in MN would have a field day talking about the limitations Jackson brings to your offense. And seeing as how he has had confidence issues before, what do you think all the extra negative attention would do?
It’s just really not an ideal situation for him because even if he does start in 2010 and play well, he still won’t run the offense as good as Favre and there will definitely be a lot of people lobbying against Jackson out there because of it. I know a lot of you will talk about how you can’t compare the two and while I don’t disagree with that, the fact that is people still will compare them.
When his doubts had left him and his confidence returned, and Frerrotte happened to get injured, Childress put Jackson back in the starting line-up, and kept him there until all-time great Brett Favre arrived.
When his confidence returned he was re-inserted? Do you think that was more so the reason he became the starter again? Or do you think it was because Ferotte went down with an injury? Be honest.
by packallday555 on Feb 17, 2010 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
Confidence Issues
If Jackson has any confidence issues about himself, and his play, then the solution is simple; get rid of him. Play it however they need to, in order to get the most value out of the guy, but get rid of him. He’s a weak link and no amount of patch-welding on his fragile ego is going to hold.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
He’s started 19 games, and averaged less than 120 yds/game passing. Even with the argument that the Vikes were a run first offense, that won’t cut it. Favre, proved that the Vikes were run first only because TJ offered no consistent passing attack. With today’s rules protecting QBs and making the game so pass happy, we are seeing rookies outperforming him by wide margins. Do you really believe that one year with Favre will improve him that much? LET HIM GO! He’s a disease that will only cause the Vikes to be mediocre at best as all of the young stars age, or leave. Then, thanks to him, we will be back to square one…
Even if I "let him Go" what is your plan for the next three years.
Letting him go is the easy part.
Do you draft a guy like Aaron Rodgers. Sat on the bench for three years.
Do you take an undrafted guy like Romo.. Sat on the bench for three years.
Trade for McNabb? Why would they trade an older declining QB that has made the playoffs 7 of 11 years?
Use draft picks for someone else’s TJ? Like Campbell or Troy Smith?
The question of TJ isn’t as important as What do you do if he isn’t here?
I agree that starting Rosenfel for a couple years is an option. Is that better than starting TJ?
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 18, 2010 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Campbell could be a good fit for you guys. He has been so-so in Washington but his circumstances haven’t been great. He has played in a different offensive system every year of his career and hasn’t exactly had great coaches. With your offense Campbell wouldn’t be needed to do a whole lot, and he would certainly have some good weapons around him.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
I agree that starting Rosenfel for a couple years is an option. Is that better than starting TJ?
I think so. The only reason Rosenfels struggles at times is because he is a gunslinger. He thinks he can make every throw and a lot of the time just tries to do to much. Both of those things are pretty easily fixable. After this offseason he should know your offense well enough, and if Chilly can get him to just take what the defense is giving him then he could be a good option. Not as good as Favre, but there isn’t many people if anyone who would be.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
OK so I take Campbell
Now I have given up my first and third. Campbell now has his eighth offensive coordinator and system. I believe this guy can take me to a Super bowl? No thanks, at this point I will put him on a par, at best, with TJ. At least TJ knows my receivers and system.
I have no problem starting Rosenfel. My problem is starting my third stringer over my second stringer. How is that better for getting me to the SuperBowl?
Obviously if you are one to believe that TJ is not better, but rather the coach did that so the coach would look better or TJ could be traded, then putting Rose in makes sense. Me, I’m just not a big conspiracy guy.
No, I really need those two draft picks to help my defense and O-Line. You have not convinced me that you are getting me to a Super Bowl with your solutions.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 18, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, didn’t know you would have to give up your 1st and 3rd to get Campbell. Since that’s the case, that’s definitely out of the picture.
Yeah, I definitely think Rosenfels is better. Pocket passer whose only real weakness is he has too much confidence in his abilities at times. He just tries to do to much, and it usually doesn’t turn out well for him. On your team though, he won’t have to try and do to much. He’ll have AP to lean on, and a good WR corps.
I guess I just look at Rosenfels and Jackson, and see they both have their issues. I already named what I think Rosenfels weaknesses are, and they are very fixable. Jackson struggles with accuracy, reading a defense, and pocket presence. All improvable, just much harder to improve.
And I’m not sure how much of a conspiracy theory it is. Obviously Chilly wasn’t happy with Jackson’s play otherwise he wouldn’t have traded for another Qb. Evidently Jackson beat out Rosenfels for the backup job but how much does that really matter? Maybe to you it means a lot, but for me I don’t think so. After Favre was signed who cares what other Qb is on the roster. Sure, the guy was old, but he’s played in like a million straight NFL games. The odds of him missing a game aren’t good. Considering that, you might as well just play inny minny miny moe to figure out who the backup is.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2010 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
I think it is important to note
that Sage is 32. TJ only 27. I would expect Rose to be a little more polished.
But it really is important who the 2nd and 3rd stringer is.
2nd string gets more work with the line during practice.
2nd string has different responsibilities during the game.
Some teams like NE only carry 2 QBs. Others carry three because no matter who is at QB they can get hurt on any play in any game.
My final response is to your statement (also made by others) that somehow the coaching staff was unhappy with TJ so they brought Rose in. At that time we had two QBs. TJ and Booty. Of course they are going to bring in the best available talent to compete and it doesn’t surprise me that they brought in experience to compete. They would have done that even if TJ was the starter. I simply point out who won the competition.
I refuse to knock the coaching staff for doing the best for this team then. I refuse to believe they won’t continue to do that by making a valid QB decision in the future. If they choose TJ Great. If not then I’m OK with that. But I won’t diminish what TJ has accomplished.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 19, 2010 7:57 AM CST up reply actions
I’m not at all trying to knock the coaching staff. Bringing in Sage was definitely the right move. Jackson wasn’t cutting it, so you bring in a guy who has started some NFL games and shown some ability. Plus, it may push Jackson to get better. I’m sure they will make the right decision as welll.
I almost hope Jackson does start next year just cause it would be interesting to see how he does. I personally don’t think he improves, as spending a year behind Favre probably wasn’t as beneficial as some think. In fact, I think it stunted his growth but that’s just my opinion. I just don’t see how all of the sudden he is an accurate passer, can read coverages, and has better pocket presence but who knows! Crazier things have happened right?
by packallday555 on Feb 19, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
You know he is a RFA this year.
If your really interested maybe GB will pick him up then after the first game when Rodgers gets sacked 15 times he can play the rest of the season for you guys.
Always trying to help! Man am I a swell guy.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
See Packallday you simply won't stick to the facts.
Jackson wasn’t cutting it,
I said the coaches had to bring in a QB. I based that on the fact that we only had 2 and one was John David Booty. You then use those facts to place blame on TJ. Your opinion is one thing and I can even respect it as long as you acknowledge it is simply an opinion and not the true facts.
Of course it is absolutely a proven fact that sitting behind Farve is very unhelpful. Both Hasselbeck and Rodgers performance clearly proves your right about that. And the fact that you believe it has stunted his growth does give us all little hope for his development. Oh, I do apologize, you did say that was just your opinion.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 19, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
I based that on the fact that we only had 2 and one was John David Booty.
So you don’t think Jackson’s performance had anything to do with you guys trading for a Qb? I’m sorry but if you don’t think bringing Sage in had anything to do with Jackson’s underwhelming play that’s ridiculous. Sure, you needed more depth but depth could have been added by simply signing another journeymen Qb for cheap like you had with Ferotte as opposed to giving up a draft pick.
Of course it is absolutely a proven fact that sitting behind Farve is very unhelpful.
Where did I say this? I simply said I don’t think Jackson sitting behind Favre for a year was as beneficial as some would think. Rodgers sat behind him for 3 years and Hasselback for 2 years. Sure they learned stuff from him, as I’m sure Jackson did but both of them also had and have all the abilities to be a good Qb. I don’t think Jackson does. He isn’t an accurate passer, and in the west coast system that’s a huge problem. He can’t read defenses very well, and he has troubles determining where the blitzes are coming from. And thirdly, he has nearly no awareness in the pocket. With his athleticism he should be nearly impossible for defenses to sack but that hasn’t been the case because it’s like he’s unaware of everything else going on around him.
Watching Favre can’t make Jackson a more accurate passer. Watching Favre can’t make Jackson be more aware of his surroundings. Watching Favre could help him in reading coverages, and could help him in determining where blitzes are coming from.
Again, maybe Jackson comes out and is good for you guys and turns out to be your Qb of the future. But until I see him do so, I’m just not going to think it’s going to happen.
by packallday555 on Feb 21, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions
Just letting this discussion die.
Sure, you needed more depth but depth could have been added by simply signing another journeymen Qb for cheap like you had with Ferotte as opposed to giving up a draft pick.
I simply can’t have a valid discussion with someone who believes the way to build a winning football team is to bring in a “cheap” quarterback as a back-up in today’s NFL.
Every team is one play away from losing their starting QB. Your statement is one I hope the Vikings never adopt as their way of doing business.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 22, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Hey Gus rocked!
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I agree and to suggest he was only here because he was cheap was a low blow from anyone.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 22, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
And where did I suggest that Gus was ONLY on the Vikings because he was cheap? I simply stated most teams go out and get veteran Qb’s for cheap when their looking for Qb depth. Quit trying to twist my words.
by packallday555 on Feb 23, 2010 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
Oh please. Jump down off your high horse man.
Funny how all you got out of what I said was cheap. You basically implied that Sage was simply brought in for depth, and to be a back-up, and as nothing more. My point was why trade a draft pick for what was going to be a primarily back-up Qb, or a guy who was just brought in for depth? MOST teams, when looking for depth at Qb, bring in an older guy, with some experience, which is what you guys did with Gus. It wasn’t like there weren’t some veteran guys out there that you couldn’t have signed for a much cheaper price then a 4th round draft pick. (Jeff Garcia comes to mind, and is a guy that knows the West Coast system like the back of his hand.) Basically the fact that you traded for him, and the fact that Chilly announced pretty much immediately after that there would an open competition between the two dismisses your notion that he was only “brought in for depth”.
It’s kind of telling that you pretty much completely changed the subject, and went on to try and attack something I said as opposed to responding back to what we were actually talking about..
by packallday555 on Feb 23, 2010 8:23 PM CST up reply actions
Jeff Garcia
could’ve been had for much cheaper than a 4th round draft pick? How much cheaper?
Well you never know. You could have used that 4th round pick to draft a guy who could have been a good, and maybe even great contributor for years. Or you could have drafted a bust. Either way, draft picks are highly valued by GMs.
The only point I’m trying to make and was trying to make is Sage was not traded for only for depth purposes.
by packallday555 on Feb 24, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with you there.
Sage was brought in to compete with Tarvaris for the starting QB job until Favre came out of retirement and then the competition was called off.
QBs
I really have to disagree, pack. Watching a master craftsman at work, when you’re the apprentice or journeyman, is definitely one way of improving your game. Everything from the footwork to the hardcount to making the reads and taking advantage of the opposition’s mistakes. Hell, I learned something about being an NFL-caliber QB last year from watching Favre, and I was a lot further away than T-Jack and Sage from the action!
Add to that the fact that they went over the opposition’s defenses during the games, Favre giving his opinions and thoughts on what was going on and how to take advantage of what the glossies where showing, and the example of leadership, poise, and grace that they were personally witness to for the first time in their lives. It’s been a long time for the Vikings, and many of the fans, since we’ve had a really experienced, top-quality veteran QB taking the snaps and I have to tell you… man, I missed it.
Both Rice and Harvin spoke about how Favre gave them tips on what film to watch, which top WRs and RBs to look closely at, to improve their own games, and both said how grateful they were for the pointers and that they benefited from his advice. Since the quarterbacks have their own coach and their own meetings and tactical sessions, they train together and watch film together, I think it’s a fair bet that Favre taught T-Jack and Sage quite a bit, even if he wasn’t actively trying to mentor those young men.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I still have the sinking feeling that when TJ takes over this team
It will be like me putting my seven year old behind the wheel of a Lambourghini.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Would you feel better if your 7 year lod sat next to Andretti for a year first?
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 23, 2010 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
only if he got an autograph
and insurance. (andretti pays.)
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
You make a good point and I don’t necessarily disagree. I said above that I don’t think Jackson sitting behind Favre will turn out to be as beneficial as some people may think. Mainly because some fans are trying to make it sound like he is going to turn out like Brunell, Hasselback, or Rodgers and I just don’t see that happening but who really knows. It’s just my opinion.
by packallday555 on Feb 23, 2010 8:27 PM CST up reply actions

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